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[Re-release] G.K. Chesterton (part 2)
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This is a re-release of an episode that originally aired May 16, 2023.
Brook and Sarah continue their exploration of G.K. Chesterton this week. They discuss his mysteries featuring Father Brown and the legacies of this ecclesiastical sleuth.
Discussed
The Man Who Was Thursday (1908) G.K. Chesterton
Father Brown Mysteries (2013-present) BBC
Sister Boniface Mysteries (2022-present) BBC
Father Dowling Mysteries (1987-1991) NBC, ABC
Radio adaptations of Father Brown
Chesterton’s work on Project Gutenberg
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For a full episode transcript, visit https://cluedinmystery.com/re-release-g-k-chesterton-part-2/
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Transcript
Announcement of Break and Future Plans
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi, it's Sarah. Brooke and I are taking a short break from recording new episodes to catch up on our reading lists and plan for the next season of Clued in Mystery. While we're off, we are re-releasing a few of our favorite episodes.
00:00:12
Speaker
We hope you enjoy.
Introduction and Excitement for G.K. Chesterton Discussion
00:00:23
Speaker
Welcome to Clued in Mystery. I'm Sarah. And I'm Brooke. And we both love mystery. Hi, Brooke. Hi, Sarah. How are you today?
00:00:34
Speaker
i'm good, thank you. How are you I'm great. Looking forward to another conversation with you.
G.K. Chesterton's Life and Literary Connections
00:00:40
Speaker
Yeah, and we're going to continue the conversation that we started last week about GK Chesterton.
00:00:48
Speaker
I'm looking forward to this, and I've learned a lot. I'm kind of dismayed to know how very little I had heard about Chesterton before we got started researching, Sarah.
00:01:00
Speaker
Yeah, i I feel the same way. He really, like we said last week, is just such a fascinating man who I feel like most people, i i feel like all the things that are fascinating about him have been lost to most people.
00:01:18
Speaker
Absolutely. Yes. We've heard of many of his famous friends and famous authors that he worked with, C.S. Lewis, T.S. Eliot, J.R. Tolkien, George Bernard Shaw. Those are names we really recognize, but he was right there in the midst of that. I mean, Agatha Christie, Dorothy Sayers. um And um for for whatever reason, his name and his work have not stayed on the tip of our
Father Brown Stories Compared to Other Authors
00:01:44
Speaker
tongues. So we're bringing him back. We're going to learn about him and about his mystery contributions today.
00:01:51
Speaker
Excellent. So, I mean, obviously his most famous character is Father Brown. um And I thought it was really interesting that all of the writing that he did about Father Brown, it it was only short stories. He didn't write any novels featuring Father Brown. um which, yeah, I don't know, because Doyle did write a couple of novels, but mostly short stories featuring Sherlock Holmes. And I think Agatha Christie, the same thing. She wrote both novels and short stories featuring Poirot.
00:02:27
Speaker
I don't know whether Marple, was she just short stories or were there novels with Miss Marple? I don't know the answer to that. I don't either. I guess I'm thinking it's short stories, but we might need to do a little bit of research on that. But yeah, they definitely had both in for most of those authors.
Chesterton's Writing Style and Preferences
00:02:49
Speaker
Yeah. um But yeah, so that all of the Father Brown stories were were short stories, which I think is interesting. And then he also wrote some, I guess we would call them standalone stories that didn't feature Father Brown. But again, I think they were just collections of short stories. um No, he did write, there was the um ah the novel, The Man Who Was Thursday. I think that was a novel um rather than a collection of short stories. But, um yeah, I think I think he wrote a lot of short stories. but And maybe that's because, like you said, in the first episode, he did a lot of his writing on the train. And, um you know, that kind of lends itself to to shorter bursts of of writing and and maybe writing, maybe writing short stories. I don't know.
00:03:39
Speaker
Yeah, good point. Good point. You could get um a story done in probably a couple of missed trains. And ah supposedly that was definitely something he experienced. I also think that it's very similar to his other types of nonfiction writing he did. He was known for essays and articles and things like that. So I think sometimes as authors, we have a a way and that we tell a story, kind of we have a a length, an automatic length. And I feel like he was one of those people who could sum it up.
00:04:12
Speaker
You know, he he could kind of encapsulate something pretty briefly, which is a so ah wonderful skill. And um yeah, and it really worked for his short stories. And let's face it, it worked great for adaptations later on, which I'm sure we'll talk about.
Television Adaptations of Father Brown
00:04:29
Speaker
Yeah, i I thought something similar that, you know, having having a collection of short stories to draw from makes it quite easy to, I think, translate those into television episodes, which obviously, some of that has has happened with with his father brown mysteries. Although i so I have been watching some of the Father Brown mysteries and there are some characters from his short stories and I've noted one or two that are similar to the short stories that he's written. And I have to say, I haven't watched all of the Father Brown and I haven't read all of the Father, Father Brown original short stories. So I can't say that there's, um you know, that it's, it's one for one, but I have a feeling that there was a little more, and
00:05:19
Speaker
creative license taken with the television adaptation, but using using Father Brown as the inspiration. I would assume so too, because it's been so long running. It's gone on and on. And um we have 53 of the original ah stories. So I would assume that that you're right there, Sarah.
00:05:40
Speaker
Well, and I think the other thing that they did with the television adaptation is they changed the setting. So I think the original stories, he traveled around a little bit, and that doesn't happen so much in um in the television adaptation. um And I think the actual location or like where he is from is also different. So in the television adaptation, it's in the Cotswolds, whereas I think he was Sussex, if I'm remembering that correctly, but I'm not, I'm not 100% sure on that but That's new. And then also the
Chesterton's Influence on the Cozy Mystery Genre
00:06:15
Speaker
time.
00:06:15
Speaker
So I think the television series is set in the mid 1950s, whereas the original stories, obviously, i think the first ones were written before the First World War.
00:06:26
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. He wrote, he started writing them in 1910 and wrote for a while and then had taken kind of a break and went back and finished more. And then so by 1936, he had written all of them. One of the things that I really like about both the stories and the the television um versions is that like these are true, I think, cozy mysteries, right? It's a small community of characters. um they're They're gentle in the um gentle in the telling.
00:07:02
Speaker
um And, you know, I don't know... Did you come across this, Brooke, whether he like, whether we would consider him one of the first true cozy mystery authors?
00:07:16
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. I mean, I think that some actually credit him for being the creator of Cozy's. And it's probably because of just like what you said, they're gentler. i mean, they there are murders and things like that, but nothing is ever on the page. Um,
00:07:37
Speaker
The characters are a little bit caricatures in a in a sense, I feel. um And and not in a not in an off-putting way, but you definitely get that.
00:07:49
Speaker
And to me, it feels almost like an allegorical um way to tell a story. um And I think that that gives it a very cozy feel as well. Yeah, that's that's um that's really interesting. Yeah.
00:08:03
Speaker
I think that there's a ah pattern that we see in the stories where um many times there's a more elaborate, whether it's by ah another detective sort of character, or sometimes there's the, um you'll have to help me, Sarah. I can't recall the criminal. He's the criminal turned good in
Character and Themes of Father Brown
00:08:24
Speaker
the Father Brown. Flambeau.
00:08:26
Speaker
Yes, flambeau, or sometimes it's flambeau. They come up with this more elaborate ah explanation for what has happened and and the explanation of the crime. And sometimes that includes supernatural elements. um But then...
00:08:44
Speaker
you know, a so unassuming, quiet Father Brown comes in and says, no, here's what really happened. And it's much more simple and straightforward. And it, you know, it makes much more sense. And Again, i feel like we get a lesson in his stories about, um you know, things are generally the most simple explanation or the most simple, you know, understanding.
00:09:14
Speaker
And um I just, I feel like we have a very quiet ah spiritual lesson, even in the Father Brown Mysteries. Yeah, i I would agree. And I think this is something that you said in the first episode in our conversation about him, where it's not pushy, right? Like it's not, you don't feel like you're being told that this is something that you need to believe or something that, um ah
00:09:45
Speaker
you know, that you're wrong if you don't believe it. It's it's very... um It's very soft. Yes, it is soft. And the messages are often about um getting set on the right path, um maybe a second chance. ah Those kind of ideas definitely come through. And I will say you can read them for the mystery and and and not worry about the perhaps deeper meeting that he's weaving in there. But I just I kind of feel that when I read his stories.
00:10:21
Speaker
Yeah, I would, um I would agree. ah i think his writing is quite lyrical. I don't know if you found that. um But some of the, you know, the um opening paragraphs, I looked last night at a couple of his stories, and the opening paragraphs are just these...
00:10:42
Speaker
wonderful descriptions of setting or the, you know, the character that, um the first character that's introduced in the story. And yeah, like he just had a really beautiful way of writing.
00:10:58
Speaker
Yeah, I would agree. i found it so beautiful and I was surprised. I don't know why I was surprised, but, um, I, I found it to be the same thing. I i wrote my notes, wonderful descriptions, um, interesting observations, nice details, like these, uh, sometimes the smallest detail, but it just explained the setting and it, it really beautiful writing. I would agree.
00:11:26
Speaker
and And not overly, like it wasn't, you know, pages and pages of description. It was just a little bit to to get a sense of of where you are. um And yeah, like you said, you know, just enough to really paint that picture um and and get the story started.
00:11:46
Speaker
And good point, because we're talking short stories here. And so in order to do that, you do have to be very economical. So a great um lesson, if you're interested in writing short stories, this would be a great lesson to see how he accomplishes that in such a short, a short spot.
00:12:03
Speaker
Oh, definitely. I think, yeah, he's um definitely one to, to look to.
Influence of Father Brown on Other Series
00:12:10
Speaker
Speaking of um him perhaps kicking off the cozy mystery genre, um I also found a quote from Crime Reads that said he was the parent of all clerical mystery. and In fact, was the first that we know of previously.
00:12:27
Speaker
clerical amateur sleuth. And we have seen others. um In fact, I have a confession, Sarah, and the pun is fully intended, that um when we started talking about Father Brown, I was like, oh yeah, I used to watch Father Brown all the time.
00:12:45
Speaker
No, no. I watched Father Dowling. Are you familiar with Father Dowling? I am not. So this was a US series that was late 80s. And um Tom Bosley, was who also was the dad from Happy Days, if anyone needs that reference, was the sleuth, Father Dowling. And these were not based on G.K. Chesterton stories. They were based on Ralph McIrney's books. And um he was he lived 1929 to 2010. But I only bring it up because he was heavily influenced in talks about being heavily influenced by G.K. Chesterton.
00:13:30
Speaker
So it was not Father Brown that I was most familiar with, but actually Father Dowling and an an example of an author who was influenced and came out of these mysteries that um Chesterton started.
00:13:45
Speaker
Well, having a clerical sleuth is actually quite a good device because um there's you know good reason for him to be at a crime scene. He's comforting people. the witnesses or, or um you know, he can um have these conversations with people that, you know, they may be more willing to open up to him because he's seen as such an unassuming character. So it really is quite a clever um a clever device. So i'm I'm not surprised that others have modeled their own stories after that. And I think there's a spinoff um from Father Brown um that I haven't seen. and I don't know that Chesterton wrote any of these stories, but um I think it's Sister Boniface um where she's the she's the sleuth. And she was a character in one of the early episodes of the television series.
00:14:48
Speaker
Yes, yes. i've I've heard of that, but also haven't caught that. But you're right. Having this um amateur sleuth who's a priest is really a great device. And um I like that part of the reason that Father Brown is so successful in, um you know, untangling that the crimes is his awareness of human evil. Yeah.
00:15:11
Speaker
I think that, and he talks about, Father Brown talks about this in some of the stories about people assume that priests are these, you know, um pious, quiet, and you know, never being exposed to any of the evils of the world. But in fact, they know a lot because, you know, they work with their parishioners and they hear ah confessions and maybe they know more about how people are ah than anyone and um understand that, you know,
00:15:39
Speaker
what people are capable of. So I thought it was a ah great way to have this sleuth. And as you say, access to people, access to crime scenes, no it works really well.
00:15:52
Speaker
So i I often listen to the stories, you know, if we're if we're preparing for an episode, I often will listen to whatever's been written by the author that we're talking about. But I found that I preferred reading Chesterton's work rather than listening to it. And I don't know if it was just the audio version that I was listening to didn't didn't work for me. But i think there was something, and maybe this is, you know, like we were talking about the kind of beauty of his words.
00:16:26
Speaker
There was something about reading them that made them resonate with me a lot more then than hearing them. Interesting. I did listen. I listened to a lot of his short stories. And then I also listened to some of the radio plays that were done. And those were a lot of fun. And one thing I enjoyed about them and thought was really cool was that they, although they definitely had a script and If they messed up, this must have been live radio because they would just kind of have to work off one another and um and fix their improv. So it was really, really fun. And it made it feel really real. And um I enjoyed those stories a lot, too.
00:17:07
Speaker
Oh, i didn't I didn't listen to any of those, but now I i want to. When were those produced? Do you know? I believe that these were like nineteen forty s productions. I found them on YouTube, I believe. And um yeah, so that was it was fun to see, like and maybe as a podcaster to understand, like, oh yeah, they didn't always get it right either. And they just had to roll with the punches. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to i'm definitely going to check that out. we'll We'll maybe put a link to that in the show notes. Great. One thing i wanted to bring up was that I feel like um Chesterton succeeded in doing something that Arthur Conan Doyle always wanted to.
Chesterton's Dual Legacy in Literature
00:17:52
Speaker
And that is that he was actually known more for his nonfiction, you know, quote unquote, serious writing in his lifetime more than he was his mysteries. And I don't know what there is really to say about that, except for the fact that ah he definitely was popular for his philosophical, theological stuff and really not so well known for his mysteries that were probably paying the bills in ah in a large sense during his lifetime. I think that's really interesting, Brooke. And I did, I did see that. um Yeah, he would, I think he took a break from writing the Father Brown mysteries. And then when his income was, was a little lower, um wrote a few more to, um um to pay some of the bills. Yeah.
00:18:45
Speaker
But yeah, i think I think that's interesting that ah Doyle wasn't able to accomplish that. I think i think the the public was just so enamored with Sherlock Holmes that I think it just was too difficult for him to to really do anything else. Yeah.
00:19:09
Speaker
But I think there are a lot of parallels between those two authors in terms of their wide interests and the things that they that they wrote about. I agree. i agree. i I saw a lot of parallels as well. And, um you know, on the one hand, you think, well, gosh, what a terrible problem to have, Doyle, that you're massively famous for this, you know, fictional character. But it really did weigh heavily on him. And, and you know, I mean, face it, he killed off his his sleuth, right? Because he was hoping that that would be a way to distance himself. But um yeah, I just, it struck me. I thought, well, you know what? Somehow Chesterton did that. um And now...
00:19:54
Speaker
In this day and age, we mostly know him for his mysteries, I i think, ah probably in in large part because of the television series that's endured. um So just just a thought. No, I think you're right. I think he is far better known now ah for the mysteries. um And yeah, i would I would credit that with the television series because...
00:20:18
Speaker
I think it's very popular. um The, the father Brown mysteries. I think it's, I think I read somewhere one of the most popular um BBC programs um in some category. I'm not sure which, I don't remember which category, but, um and they're good. They're really nice. You know, if you don't want something that's too heavy, um they're, they're perfect. Yeah.
00:20:45
Speaker
Yes, yes. And his character, the the character of Father Brown is just as endearing and fun as as he is in the books, or excuse me, in the short stories. Well, Brooke, this has been so great to talk about G.K. Chesterton and more specifically talk about his mystery writing today. um I'm so glad that we took the time to learn a little bit more about about this man.
00:21:15
Speaker
I am too. And there's others coming because we know that there are a whole list of mystery authors that we're just uncovering as we do the podcast. So we we'll continue to do some of these bio episodes in the future and we look forward to that.
00:21:31
Speaker
But for today, thank you so much, everyone, for joining us on Clued in Mystery. I'm Brooke. And I'm Sarah. And we both love mystery. Clued in Mystery is produced by Brooke Peterson and Sarah M. Stephen.
00:21:44
Speaker
Music is by Shane Ivers at silvermansound.com. Visit us online at cluedinmystery.com or social media at cluedinmystery. If you liked what you heard, please consider subscribing, leaving a review, or telling your friends.