Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Paranormal Mysteries
1 Playsin 9 hours
In today's episode, Brook and Sarah discuss mysteries that include paranormal elements: ghosts, spirits, and other unexplainable phenomena.
Discussed and mentioned
The Last Seance (1926) Agatha Christie
Kincaid Strange series by Kristi Charish
Mitzi Moon series by Trixie Silvertale
Pebble Cove series by Eryn Scott
Halloween Party (1969) Agatha Christie
Lockwood & Co series by Jonathan Stroud
London Séance Society (2023) Sarah Penner
For more information
Instagram: @cluedinmystery
Contact us: hello@cluedinmystery.com
Music: Signs To Nowhere by Shane Ivers – www.silvermansound.com
Sign up for our newsletter: https://cluedinmystery.com/clued-in-chronicle/
Order Life or Delft by Brook and Sarah
For a full episode transcript, visit https://cluedinmystery.com/paranormal-mysteries/
Recommended
![[Re-release] Anna Katharine Green image](https://media.zencastr.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=112,quality=85/image-files/61e1c276e3ec42007857cff9/7f7ed21f-6dd3-47b5-860c-a08344c5d1e7.jpg)
![[Re-release] G.K. Chesterton (part 2) image](https://media.zencastr.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=112,quality=85/image-files/61e1c276e3ec42007857cff9/babb09c1-7933-49cb-8213-3eb4b476116b.jpg)
![[Re-release] G.K. Chesterton (part 1) image](https://media.zencastr.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=112,quality=85/image-files/61e1c276e3ec42007857cff9/3f2e982d-f98d-4e9a-9424-bdf97b08d7db.jpg)
Transcript
Introduction to Paranormal Mysteries
00:00:11
Speaker
Welcome to Clued in Mystery. I'm Sarah. And I'm Brooke, and we both love mystery. Hi, Brooke. Hi, Sarah. Today's topic is doubly mysterious.
00:00:25
Speaker
Ooh. Today we're going to be talking about paranormal mysteries, ghosts, and psychic powers. At first glance, these things may not seem like a natural fit for a genre usually grounded in logic, evidence, and rational investigation. And yet paranormal mysteries have become one of the most popular and enduring corners of the mystery space.
Historical Intertwining of Mystery and Gothic Fiction
00:00:51
Speaker
Part of the appeal is that paranormal mysteries offer readers two puzzles at once. There's the crime itself to solve, but also the lingering question, what exactly is happening here?
00:01:04
Speaker
Is there truly something supernatural at work? Or is there a logical explanation hiding behind the surface? In many ways, mystery fiction and gothic fiction grew up side by side.
00:01:18
Speaker
Writers like Edgar Allan Poe, Wilkie Collins, Daphne du Maurier, and Arthur Conan Doyle frequently blended crime, suspense, and eerie supernatural atmospheres.
00:01:31
Speaker
And of course, classic mystery readers will recognize the tradition of seances, curses, haunted houses, and mysterious apparitions appearing throughout Golden Age fiction, even if the explanation ultimately turned out to be perfectly ordinary, sort of like a Scooby-Doo episode where the ghost is eventually unmasked.
Modern Acceptance of Supernatural Elements
00:01:54
Speaker
But in many modern paranormal mysteries, the supernatural elements are very real in the story world. Ghosts may assist the sleuth, witches may solve crimes, and clairvoyant investigators may rely on abilities beyond ordinary deduction.
00:02:12
Speaker
While these stories are especially popular on the cozy side of the genre, paranormal elements also appear frequently in thrillers. So today we're exploring paranormal mysteries, where they came from, why readers are drawn to them, and how writers can strike a balance between the supernatural and our mystery reader's expectation.
00:02:36
Speaker
Oh, thank you for such a great introduction, Brooke. You're welcome, Sarah. I think this is going to be a lot of fun to discuss. And so let's start ah at the beginning, the beginnings of this idea of paranormal in mysteries. And I really do think that we can see that clear back to the grandfather of mystery, which is Edgar Allan Poe.
00:02:59
Speaker
Yeah, I remember from our conversation about him, he was he was in that period of time where I think spiritualism was was something that that people participated in Definitely right. I mean, these people dealt with a lot of death in their life. And so the idea that you could still speak with your loved ones or your loved ones were watching over you, i think that was a belief that most people held. And so there was some playing with that in his stories. And then onward into the golden age where a lot of people were taking
00:03:35
Speaker
part in seances ah that was kind of in vogue to go and create these atmospheres and try to talk to your dearly departed. These kind of things were almost like a trendy ah topic. And so it was really natural that the Golden Age authors would then incorporate this type of thing into their story. And I i found it interesting that um Agatha Christie usually in her novels, would have a solution to the mystery that dispelled any thoughts that there were actually ghosts. There were logical and rational conclusions.
00:04:14
Speaker
But in her short stories, she would often delve into something a little more creepy or ambiguous. So it depends on where you want to take your mystery reading. But I was thinking of for for instance, the last seance collection. And those
Personal Anecdotes and Modern Fascination
00:04:30
Speaker
give you just a little bit more of a question mark of, you know, what was going on in that story.
00:04:36
Speaker
hmm. And maybe it would be helpful to just um say that we're when we're talking about paranormal, we're really talking about mysteries that involve the spirit world, right? Ghosts rather than the supernatural, which would be vampires and werewolves. And, and you know, i think there's um some crossover. Today, we're really focusing on the paranormal and and ghost type Mm So Sarah, as you know, I just returned from a short trip to an old turn of the century mining town, which heavily influences my own mystery series, which is not paranormal, by the way. But I love this town and I love all the historic sites. And I haven't been there for about 15 years.
00:05:26
Speaker
And I was struck by how much more talk there was of ghosts and hauntings this time. um There was a little of that before, but this time nearly all the tours and all the old buildings you could visit were playing up the idea of paranormal.
00:05:46
Speaker
I love it. And did you see any ghosts? I did not. the The hotel we stayed in was an 1876 building. And there are lots of stories about what is you know alleged to happen to people who spend the night there. And we did not experience any of it. But I did think about this and and the change of from really being history-based about 15 years ago to skewing more towards this haunting and
Enhancing Mystery with Paranormal Elements
00:06:20
Speaker
ghosts. And I was thinking about how easy it is to explain everything these days. You know, we can Google anything. We have every bit of knowledge we could want at the tip of our fingers. And I wondered if maybe we're a little bit hungry for something that's still unknown and mysterious. And one of the only places that that's really left is, ah
00:06:44
Speaker
you know, the idea of paranormal or the what happens after this life. Yeah, you know, i I think people love that idea of this.
00:06:56
Speaker
place, you know, potentially being a connection to the past, right? And and um Vancouver is not a particularly old city, but we do have an older hotel that I think there's, you know, meant to be ah a woman in a red dress who haunts the hallways, for example. And I just love the idea of staying there and and possibly encountering her.
00:07:23
Speaker
Right. um some of the things we already love about mystery, and you you talk about this a lot, Sarah, where we kind of get to flirt with danger without actually being in danger when we're reading mystery. And then when you add in this extra layer, it sort of levels up a little bit of fear, a little uncertainty, a little tension. And I think that that's something that readers really enjoy.
00:07:50
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, Brooke, you mentioned in your introduction that you don't read a lot of paranormal mysteries. And I don't mind a book that has a a paranormal element, but I think sometimes there's a risk that rather than it kind of evoking that...
00:08:09
Speaker
And spookiness, it leans into the the the book can lean into being a little too cute. And so I don't get that same um ah flirting with danger.
00:08:21
Speaker
I know what you mean. And that especially happens in more of the on the cozy end of the spectrum, of course. And I think something else is that these stories need to stay true to the fair play rule.
00:08:33
Speaker
um Because we want the logical solution. I think that's still important in a mystery. So if psychic visions or like a ghost providing information helps solve the mystery, sometimes that takes some of the satisfaction out for me.
00:08:55
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's totally fair. The the importance of maintaining that fair play. ah i know I've read books where maybe the sleuth isn't a ghost, but they have a ghost companion.
00:09:07
Speaker
And that affords the sleuth some opportunity to get into places or see things that they wouldn't normally do, right? They can send the ghost companion to be in a room. um Often there's some sort of...
00:09:23
Speaker
limit for that companion in terms of where they can go or how they can, you know, how long they can be in a certain place, something like that, that adds to that tension in the book.
00:09:38
Speaker
ah But there's ah an author, she's based here in Vancouver, and her name is Christy Cherish. And she has a series that Maybe just outside our our definition, ah her sleuth is Kinkade Strange. ah So the series is set in Seattle, in a version of Seattle where there is this paranormal element and her sleuth practices voodoo.
00:10:09
Speaker
That sounds really interesting. And I would agree with what you said about the sleuth's companion, who is ah maybe a ghost or a spirit. When it's done right, they can still provide information, but it doesn't necessarily spoil the mystery, so to speak, because we still want our sleuth to be independent and have agency.
00:10:35
Speaker
So I think overall what I've realized is I really enjoy the paranormal atmosphere more than mysteries that hinge on the paranormal, if that makes any sense at all. Because once that paranormal element becomes the answer, that's when the mystery loses tension for me.
00:10:58
Speaker
One series that I think does this very well is our friend Trixie Silvertail. Her series, the Mitzi Moon series, does have a ghost who the main character sleuth, it's her grandmother who she ends up meeting as ah as a ghost and is her sidekick. And there's a lot of humor and her grandmother does aid her in the investigation, but not in a way that is too much.
00:11:26
Speaker
Oh, that sounds great. ah And I like the idea of um the sleuth, you know, knowing the ghost, right? So they're they're continuing the relationship that they would have had while the while the ghost character was alive.
00:11:44
Speaker
Another series that I enjoyed is the Pebble Cove Mysteries. This is by Aaron Scott. And in this situation, it's a lovable ghost. There's just a little hint of romance between the sleuth and the ghost. ah But there again, it it is
Adaptations and Deviations in Films
00:12:02
Speaker
really well done. And I would recommend that one as well.
00:12:07
Speaker
So Brooke, you mentioned how um in the golden age, you know, seances would often be part of the plot. And I'm thinking about Agatha Christie's book, Halloween Party, that a couple of years ago was released as a film with Kenneth Branagh as Poirot, titled ah Haunting in Venice. And I think you and I talked about this at the time that it came out and how like they really leaned into that paranormal theme.
00:12:39
Speaker
Yes, this is reminding me of my trip this week where where maybe we're craving a little bit of that unknown. And obviously, it's really popular in our culture to be thinking about ghosts because that is exactly where Brana took that ah storyline. Yeah.
00:13:01
Speaker
And I remember sitting in the theater watching it and like racking my brain trying to remember if there were any ghosts in the original Christie. And of and of course there's not. There is a seance scene. But this is a children's Halloween party. um And any of these activities, there's bobbing for apples and there's... all so There's costumes and then there's you know a seance, which is for fun. But in the movie, it is a actual seance and actually summons a spirit.
00:13:34
Speaker
I don't think people really responded well to that departure. No. And it, again, reflects the idea that maybe there was too much of the solution wrapped up in the paranormal. And especially, you know, tried and true Christie fans would know that that wasn't the case.
00:13:55
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it was just a departure all around.
Belief in Ghosts and Supernatural Experiences
00:13:58
Speaker
true Because the the book doesn't take place in Venice. No, not at all. ah So there's a ah young adult series called Lockwood and Co by ah Jonathan Stroud. um And in this, the premise is that there are ghosts that are wreaking havoc in in in London. um And It's only young people who can deal with them.
00:14:29
Speaker
And so the story follows these young ghost hunters that end up solving a mystery as part of their um they're ghost hunting. And I actually really, really enjoyed it. I think it has been made into a um show on Netflix, but I haven't i haven't actually seen it. But the I really enjoyed the books.
00:14:55
Speaker
Yeah, that sounds great. I love that the um ability to see and interact with the ghosts is restricted to children or or young people. I think that's really cool because it's a little bit how real life is. like The older we get, the more we you know believe in certain things. And so maybe there's some truth to it.
00:15:19
Speaker
Well, absolutely. There's this notion that as ah adults, we lose some of that, whether it's innocence or whatever it is that allows children to believe in things that, you know, we dismiss after a certain age or certain experiences. I'm not sure which. um And yeah, it's it it's it's quite a delightful series, um but, you know, deals with some...
00:15:47
Speaker
um interesting themes as well. Yeah. Brooke, do you believe in, in ghosts or in the supernatural? um You know, i think a part of me does. i don't know if I believe in the visualness of them. Like I said, I didn't see one of the many things I was supposed to see at the historic hotel. But I do think that there are, you know, connections. And I have too many stories of people who will hear a song on the radio at just the right time, you know, ah maybe later.
00:16:23
Speaker
their loved one's favorite song, Who's Passed, or ah you know just little things happen that makes me think that we're still connected to the people we've lost
Book Recommendations and Upcoming Interview
00:16:32
Speaker
somehow. What about you, Sarah?
00:16:34
Speaker
ah Yeah, I mean, I think I i think i do. Maybe equal measures of belief and skepticism. see ah But I can't remember whether it was on Reddit or something like Gawker Media maybe, but there used to be a regular um post of supernatural things and, ah you know, it would come up around Halloween as part of...
00:17:03
Speaker
spooky month. And i can remember there was one story that someone had shared. It was kind of a call out for, you know, share your paranormal stories. And,
00:17:17
Speaker
There was one that I still think about where this woman was a teacher in a school and she had, she shared video of the, um it was either the blind or the window opening without anybody in the room.
00:17:36
Speaker
And it just just gave me chills. And I loved it because it was actually one of the old schools here in Vancouver where that had happened. And, oh, yeah, I wish I i wish i could find it so that I could link to it in the in the show notes. But um so, yeah, you know, seeing that, I thought, yeah, I do believe that.
00:17:58
Speaker
Right, right. It's those experiences that make it pretty hard to deny that there's not something beyond
00:18:06
Speaker
So another book ah that I've read that has a paranormal paranormal element is it's this historical mystery called the London Seance Society by Sarah Penner. And it is about women who perform seances. ah And, you know, there's a mystery that they need to um they need to solve. you know, they conjure the spirits of of murder victims, according to the book description. And I recommend It it it is it was a great read.
00:18:42
Speaker
That does sound good. You know how much I love a good historical mystery, Sarah.
00:18:49
Speaker
And I don't want to end today without mentioning another very popular paranormal series. And this is Naomi Kuttner's The Retired Assassin's Guide series. And it's worth mentioning not only because it's great, but also because we are going to have the pleasure of speaking with Naomi about writing in this space coming soon.
00:19:11
Speaker
Yes, I'm very much looking forward to that conversation.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:19:15
Speaker
as am i Well, Brooke, thank you so much for this conversation. i think it it's always interesting to speak about a genre that we don't really read very much jim You've suggested a couple of titles and I've suggested a couple of titles for people perhaps who are new to this subgenre.
00:19:36
Speaker
Yes. And, you know, I have some new reading ideas, which I always love. ah And before we leave, i have a question of the week, listeners. Do you enjoy mysteries with ghosts or psychic sleuths? Or do you prefer a more traditional detective story?
00:19:53
Speaker
We would love to hear your thoughts. Send us an email or come find us on Instagram and Facebook. But until next time, thank you for joining us on Clued in Mystery.
00:20:04
Speaker
I'm Brooke. And I'm Sarah, and we both love mystery.
00:20:12
Speaker
Clued in Mystery is written and produced by Brooke Peterson and Sarah M. Stephen. Music is by Shane Ivers. If you liked what you heard, please consider telling a friend, leaving a review, or subscribing with your favorite podcast listening app.
00:20:26
Speaker
Visit our website to sign up for our newsletter, The Clued in Chronicle, and get mystery news, podcast updates, and bonus episodes. We're on social media at Clued in Mystery.