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How to change a racist football team name
70 Plays4 years ago
We speak with Inuk writer, professor and researcher Norma Dunning about her ultimately successful struggle to have the Edmonton CFL team change its racist and insulting team name. We also discuss Norma's powerful writing on Edmonton's actual historical relationship with the Inuit.
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Transcript
Introduction to The Progress Report Podcast
00:00:15
Speaker
Friends and enemies, welcome to The Progress Report. I am your host, Duncan Kinney. We're recording today here in Amiss, which was Skygun, otherwise known as Edmonton, Alberta. And joining us today is Professor Norma Dunning.
Meet Norma Dunning and Her Literary Work
00:00:28
Speaker
Norma is an Enoch writer, professor and researcher, and her book, Eskimo Pie, A Poetics of Inuit Identity, was released in June of this year. She's also working on a collection of short stories, which will come out next year, as well as other books, her fourth book, in
Campaign to Change Edmonton CFL Team's Name
00:00:42
Speaker
fact.
00:00:42
Speaker
on the Eskimo identification tags. We also worked together with Norma on a campaign to put pressure on the sponsors of the Edmonton CFL team to change the name, a campaign that was ultimately successful. Norma also recently wrote a very powerful story for us on Edmonton's actual historical relationship to the Inuit. Norma, welcome to the Reprise Report. How are you doing? Great. Thank you for having me, Duncan. I really appreciate it.
00:01:10
Speaker
And it's been a real pleasure to work with you on this issue for, I mean, really, it's been kind of the past six weeks. We've been working very hard on it, but we connected back in 2017, I think it was, right? That's right. Um, at that time, I don't know how much even got really to, you know, to be able to go forward with anything, you know, in that time. And then I moved away for a year and came back about a year ago. So.
00:01:40
Speaker
Yeah. And there was a bit of pressure back in 2017 to change the name. I think Don Iveson mentioned it in passing and I think, uh, Ebeneesh Nanda put out a petition and stuff. And there was a little bit of a push towards it, but the Edmonton CFL team definitely worked very hard to kind of snuff that out in advance of the 2018 great cup.
Reflections on Advocacy and Resistance
00:01:58
Speaker
Well, you know, like I did appreciate having me or Don at least say something, you know, and, um, to like to trigger.
00:02:08
Speaker
that thought you know into everybody's head and and I was expecting perhaps an explosion in 2018 and nothing occurred so
00:02:19
Speaker
Yeah, the Grey Cup kind of went off without a hitch and no one really kind of raised a fuss about the name. And it's funny how things happen, but I mean, I don't think we would have been nearly as effective working together. And this is kind of how organizing works, right? Is that like you kind of make, build relationships and meet people and learn about them. And then, you know, maybe your first kick at the can is unsuccessful, but those relationships that you build actually help you be more successful down the road, right?
00:02:44
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. And, you know, there were many people who came back repeatedly, not only Progress Alberta, CBC morning radio, CBC afternoon radio, different people through global news. So, you know, there were people who are networks that stayed with the story and gave it a bit of air time and
00:03:10
Speaker
I appreciated it, you know, every little bit that they gave me, even though they would interview for about 30 minutes and then play 30 seconds. So, but I would tell myself, you know, it's worth
Facing Criticism and Personal Attacks
00:03:24
Speaker
it. It's always worth it if you're, you know, if you're fighting for something that you believe in, and just stay the course with it.
00:03:33
Speaker
And it's not fun. And it's not easy. And people called me every name I could think of up to and including last Sunday, publication with Calgary Sun, where a letter to the editor, I was I was called to seal it.
00:03:54
Speaker
And so, I mean, that was better than the usual names, but it's funny that, you know, now we've had a bit of time since the team announced that they will make change. But it's funny how it resonates with people and it stays in media. I just always expected everything will drop the next day, you know, that everything will just disappear.
00:04:20
Speaker
But I was quite amazed that there was still a letter to the editor in the Calgary Sun last weekend. I mean, I think it, you know, when you talk about this and you talk about the broader issue of kind of like racist sports team names, not only the Edmonton CFL team, but you know, you can think of a half dozen others, the Washington NFL team, the Cleveland baseball team, et cetera, et cetera.
00:04:45
Speaker
A lot of criticism you hear around this is that it's, oh, it's minor.
Sports, Racism, and Powerful Narratives
00:04:52
Speaker
Indigenous folks, Inuit folks, they face such a bunch of bigger problems. But I think that really underscores and undersells how effective sports are and how powerful sports are at creating a narrative
00:05:07
Speaker
that millions of people can kind of tap into, right? And I mean, not an imperfect example, but an example that I think is useful is like, you know, the NBA, I'm a big NBA fan, right? And the NBA has kind of started back up in the middle of this pandemic, and they've really kind of leaned into, you know, Black Lives Matter, and then kind of messages, various messages around that. And
00:05:34
Speaker
And they even debated whether they would even kind of hold a season again because of all of the unrest around police brutality down in the United States. Players actually were contemplating not going back to work.
00:05:47
Speaker
we shouldn't undersell what sports can do when it comes to kind of just like creating popular and common narratives that so many that a wide variety of people can tap into. And that's why ultimately, I think a story like changing the racist name of the Edmonton CFL team is ultimately important. Well, I think, you know, where people get uncomfortable is they don't want to examine their own racism.
00:06:14
Speaker
And so it brings discomfort to them. And I, you know, I heard it over and over again, Eskimo is only a word. And what happened within this past year, this past bit of time, is so many people were sending me these horrific messages on Facebook, but one commonality
00:06:39
Speaker
was, while you have a book of poetry called Eskimo Pi, are you going to be changing that title? And of course, they don't have, they're not saying the full title. But at the same time, people have this huge loyalty towards sports teams. And, you know, things like, well, my grandfather collected all the memorabilia from the Eskimos and
00:07:06
Speaker
you know, what happens to that. And, you know, it's funny because they're totally, usually missing out on the entire point of making that change. And it's easier to, what I found most amazing, it's easier to come after Norma Dunning than apparently it is to go after
00:07:33
Speaker
Bel Air direct or any of the other sponsors. So it's like it's kind of funny you become this target and a scapegoat in a sense, because, you know, and I don't know if it's just how people choose to direct their anger. And really, they don't want to talk about racism, they don't want to think about
00:07:59
Speaker
why that word is offensive.
Inuit Issues Beyond Sports Team Names
00:08:02
Speaker
Instead, I heard a lot of rhetoric about, you know, I'm just sick of all this change. You know, I'm like, poor me, poor non-indigenous me. I have to think about, you know, making a change. Well, it's just tiring. Am I? Yeah, that's right.
00:08:25
Speaker
You are so inconvenienced. Well, in the meantime, Inuit people in our country are starving. And nobody assume anything about that. Inuit people are not graduating from high school, and nobody does anything about that. But say, oh, we're going to make a name change, and everybody has a fit.
00:08:51
Speaker
So it's, to me, it's really amazing. And the way it's almost like a mob mentality, you know, how it gathers steam, and, you know, everybody's out against Norma Dunning. And, and for me, I think it's fine, fine, because this is, you know, it's a brief amount of time in every year for the last seven and a half years.
00:09:16
Speaker
And, but it brings it back. And I was very pleased this year, you know, that they're, they actually followed through. I mean, you were, you were the very public face of, uh, you know, the campaign to have the name change, right? Like as an Enoch woman who lives in Edmonton.
00:09:38
Speaker
You did a lot of media on this subject. You had been working on this for several years. When you put yourself out there as the public face of something like this, you're definitely going to run into racists who are going to make your life difficult. But I'm also curious about your story. How did you end up in Edmonton fighting to change the racist name of the local football team?
00:10:02
Speaker
When this all initiated, I had been invited to speak on CBC afternoon radio downtown. And when I got there, that's when, you know, rumblings of the of a change of name had occurred. And I was there to speak about the Inuit Edmonton Mute group that had resurrected itself for the third time.
00:10:30
Speaker
And I was volunteering as vice president. So when I got there, the very first question I was asked is, well, what do you think about the football team making a name change? And it was an unexpected question. I had spent the day at the university. I hadn't checked in with any media. So I was unaware of the story.
00:10:56
Speaker
And at that time I said, you know, Inuit have bigger issues, but nobody took that story further. And so initially that's what comes out into media. Well, you know, Inuit have bigger problems, bigger disparities.
00:11:16
Speaker
But then when I was given time to reflect on it and to be able to move an Inuit agenda into the public's imagination. And if that agenda only lasts five seconds every year for the next seven years, then it's worth it. For me, it is worth it.
Media Influence and Public Perception
00:11:40
Speaker
And because Inuit people are often silenced, they're not given a great deal of media, we don't speak about the disparities that Inuit Canadians continue to live under. And we also do not speak enough about Inuit success. So if for a brief amount of time in every year, I could say something to draw the public's
00:12:08
Speaker
attention to Inuit Canadians, I did it. And to me, that was a real motivator. And, you know, we have to really think about what that word Eskimo represents. So that's how it all began, Duncan. But then, you know, do you remember when that was?
00:12:33
Speaker
Uh, that had to have been in around 2013, 2014. Oh, wow. Okay. So even before Natana bed, yeah, before Natana Obed and before prime minister Trudeau, before, you know, any of them. And, you know, there's, as time went along, um, you know, I would receive more and more calls through, through Paul.
00:13:01
Speaker
And that's how I knew that the Grey Cup was coming up otherwise, because I don't follow football. I do follow baseball. And there were weird kind of media things that happened where I would be asked to speak on a live noon hour sports show with an announcer who was anti-change for the football team name.
00:13:30
Speaker
And instead what would happen is, oh, you know, Norma, we're going to record you and then we'll keep this guy live on the show with us. So often I wasn't given that opportunity, like a live opportunity to speak directly to somebody who was in opposition. So you can begin to see how media carves
00:13:56
Speaker
the information and how it's shaped and how it's presented. And I think this year they did better overall, but I will always give kudos to the CDC morning. I will always give them kudos for, you know, they did, they would send their questions in advance and they stuck to script and, you know, they were really respectful.
00:14:23
Speaker
But there were other media who, you know, they just wait for you to say something that can be pitched as crazy. Here she goes. And no wonder there are people in Calgary writing in and saying, you know, she's a zealot.
00:14:42
Speaker
So you start, uh, you know, thinking about the name back in 2013, 2014, um, you know, you were a part of local Inuit organizations here in Edmonton. Um, and then I think there's, there's another, uh, kind of media event that happens, um, that kind of also throws this issue back into the public eye. And that is Natan Obed, the leader of Inuit Taperit Kanatami.
00:15:09
Speaker
writing in the Globe and Mail that, you know, Inuit are not mascots and that they should change the name. Do you think that had a big effect on the kind of discourse around the name change as well?
00:15:18
Speaker
Well I think you know what foreshadowed and what really opened the door for Natan Obed and what we have to remember about him is that he only represents Inuit who lived in the north and there's about 40% of our population or 18,000 Inuit who live outside of
00:15:40
Speaker
their land claims areas. And so when he speaks, he's speaking for northern Inuit. To say that he speaks for all Inuit to me is inaccurate because
00:15:55
Speaker
I've studied how the land claims work and I am a beneficiary of Nunavut, as are my sons. And anyhow, I think, though, with him coming forward and putting something out there, what foreshadowed him were the 94 calls to action through the TRC and the incredible work that that group did in putting that entire process together.
00:16:24
Speaker
and then being able to release the 94 calls to action, which included the removal of the indigenous names towards any sports team and as mascots. So, you know, that I think foreshadowed, followed by Natan Obed, followed by Justin Trudeau, followed by Mayor Don Iveson,
00:16:54
Speaker
And then along the way, there were other Inuit who spoke out against the name. And so to me that, you know, it was something that occurred in media and it took a while to pick up steam, but
00:17:11
Speaker
It was something that I was always invited to speak on. And for me, if I can bring Inuit into the public imagination for a few seconds every year, that's great.
00:17:25
Speaker
Yeah, I think ultimately when we look back on this issue and how the Edmonton CFL team was ultimately forced to change their names, I think there are a couple of big inflection points, right? I think what happened in the United States, the protests around Black Lives Matter and George Floyd's death.
00:17:43
Speaker
And, you know, the effect that that had on monuments and sports team names down in the United States, uh, really kind of pushed the issue into the forefront up here in Canada. But, uh, it really is, you know, a death
Sponsor Pressure and Public Support
00:17:56
Speaker
by a thousand cuts, right? You've got, you know, starting back in 2013, 2014, you've got, you know, you starting the process of, of being like, Hey, like we should change the name. We've gotten a tan Obed. We've got, you know, prominent Inuit folks, um, you know, like Tanya Tagak and others.
00:18:11
Speaker
you know, agitating to change the name. We've got Don Iveson mentioning it in 2017. You know, it really is. And then you've got kind of, and really, you know, one of the big things I think is sponsors this summer, you know, as this kind of, as this issue boils up, you've got, you know, Bellaire Direct, a company which I had never heard of.
00:18:30
Speaker
uh, some big insurance company that apparently throws hundreds of thousands of dollars at the Eskimos every year is like, uh, you have to change the name. And, uh, and they had previously been pretty, uh, pretty reluctant to, to change the name. And this, this sponsor thing really got their attention. I don't mind that, you know, if that's what it took, like the end, literally it, having Bellaire and other sponsors come forward and say, we don't like this. We're tired of this.
00:19:00
Speaker
If you don't make a change, we're out and I really, I thought it was great. I thought, thank goodness, you know, money talks. It's unfortunate money talks about when it comes to who receives the blowback.
00:19:16
Speaker
from the general public. I don't know if Bel Air Direct ever had anybody send them a million rotten emails or if any of the sponsors did. It's funny how people direct their anger and what they choose to do and who's an easy target.
00:19:40
Speaker
So I mean, for me, it made people think about Inuit, it made people think about and examine their own racism, and it made people uncomfortable. So to me, it was worth it every year to talk about it.
00:20:00
Speaker
Yeah. And then we had the team as early as February of this year, I think even June of this year saying they had no plans to change the name. And life comes at you fast. And these movements, peoples can change their minds as we have seen with this Black Lives Matter and defunding the police issues around.
00:20:21
Speaker
uh, you know, racial justice and, you know, fighting white supremacy. I think, you know, we have seen, you know, broad amounts of people change their mind on things. And that's ultimately, you know, very positive. And one of the reasons why I think the Edmonton CFL team could not continue to have their name be, you know, the, you know, the, the, the Inuit, the folks who live, you know, up north. Well, I know like this year, I mean, aside from
00:20:47
Speaker
All the usual negativity, but I mean that's part of talking about this every year. This year there were, I felt, I felt there was much more support towards having that name change. And, you know, came from non-Inuit people. And it was good to see people step up.
00:21:07
Speaker
and not be, you know, not be afraid to weigh in on that issue. So I think this year, you know, there was and that I believe is all part of the Black Lives Matter and what happened in the US. And then, you know, it just was like wildfire across the globe. And and so here, you know, people there was much more support.
00:21:36
Speaker
So I was very happy with that. And like you're saying, people like the ordinary person has a voice and that voice can promote very good change. And it was good, you know, it was good to see how things turned out this year in terms of the amount of support the name change received.
00:22:01
Speaker
and the number of people who spoke and were not afraid. And I think we can thank Black Lives Matter for just the momentum that they managed to pick up and to put out there.
00:22:18
Speaker
I think it's also worth pointing out that the Edmonton CFL team did not do this willingly. They were forced to drag kicking and screaming into doing this. One of the things that they did that actually
00:22:36
Speaker
was ridiculous in the course of this, of trying to protect it, trying to not have to change their name, was they put out a survey. And this is part of a longer term public relations project that they had been engaging in, right? Where they would go to Northwest territories, I think was the only place they ever went to was where team executives ever went to. And they did some surveys, but they did this survey in July, right? Where they talked explicitly about
00:23:01
Speaker
Uh, the, the name of the team was originally chosen more than 100 years ago out of acknowledgement, perseverance and hardiness of Inuit culture. And that's just straight up a lie, right? That's just not true. Well, it isn't. And, um, you know, all the media where they were saying, Oh, we did this to honor Inuit.
00:23:25
Speaker
What it showed me is that they really had no understanding of the Inuit population in modern day or in history.
00:23:36
Speaker
So when they're putting that kind of rhetoric out there and making it sound like they were doing something honorable. And if you ask them, you know, what do you do on behalf of Inuit? And I believe it was just last year, they had like a mini football camp in one of the Northern communities. And I, when I was a part of the Inuit group, when I was volunteering with them, I emailed them more than once.
00:24:05
Speaker
asking if we could get like six free tickets for the Inuit children who live here in Edmonton, if we could have like six tickets. And I mean, it's a big deal for a kid to go to live sport. It's a big deal for an adult to go to live sport and, you know, never hear back, never hear back. And there were times when I emailed them about the name change and never a response.
00:24:35
Speaker
So when they're putting it out there, you know, that we're doing this wonderful survey and I think their research was pretty shoddy, but they're putting it out there that we're doing something honourable. But are they? Do they even understand the population? Do they have any idea of what happens to Inuit Canadians historically and into present day? I don't think they do.
00:25:05
Speaker
I don't think that I don't think they ever had a clue. And what, well, there was a remarkable bit of spin, right? Where it was like 78% of Western Inuit support the Edmonton CFL team's name, right? Or don't want the name to change. And where do they arrive at that? You know, the beautiful thing about statistics is we can make them do whatever we want. And that's where people can, you know, when somebody says to you,
00:25:33
Speaker
Two out of three dentists say you should use Crest. Well, are we only talking to three dentists? So if you have a group saying 78% of all Western Inuit, what they aren't giving you is what the actual population is, how many people they did speak with,
00:25:58
Speaker
And they're not sharing their data publicly. And they were hiding behind VoIP. And that is ridiculous. Like I've commissioned polls, I read polls, you know, kind of regularly and like, yeah, they didn't release the total number of people surveyed. They kind of came out in dribs and drabs through conversations with media. They didn't release the methodology.
00:26:19
Speaker
And Western Inuit make up around 7% of the population of Inuit who live in the North, who live in the traditional territory of Inuit. And the vast majority of Inuit live in Nunavut, right? That's right. Yeah, the Balkar and Nunavut. So when they're saying Western,
00:26:41
Speaker
I really don't know who they mean. Yeah, there's actually specific names for the territories that they live on too, like which wasn't necessarily made clear and when they were talking about this. Right. Well, and how many people did they really talk to? But they can put out this kind of information and oh, you know, I heard it repeated over and over again on the radio.
00:27:03
Speaker
And I would think, you know, does this team think that the general public is that stupid? That the general public is just going to believe that they had put together research and that it was viable research and now they're putting these statistics out there in front of us and nobody's questioning it.
Colonial Implications of Eskimo Identification Tags
00:27:31
Speaker
So I, you know, I kept thinking, why isn't somebody within media really asking them, what exactly did you do? And they were very reluctant, you know, when they were questioned, they were reluctant to, like you have just said previously, they were reluctant to discuss methodology, the number of people they actually interviewed, how they arrived at their data.
00:27:58
Speaker
You know, they were very, and it's too bad. What I can hope is that they've really learned a good lesson from that and that they won't put that kind of information into the public again.
00:28:14
Speaker
I mean, yeah, the other thing about this, the polling on this issue is, I think Natan Obed said it very well, is like, what are you going to do a straw poll on racism? Like, what percentage would of people saying, either like the members of the public here in Edmonton for the survey that we're talking about with the stupid question, or the survey of the Inuit that said, like, oh, if only 20% of Inuit say it's racist, like, is that an acceptable amount? Like, what the terms of success for that are is like pretty incredible when you actually kind of think about it for a second, right?
00:28:44
Speaker
Well, and yeah, and you have to really think about who, you know, who are they talking to? And, you know, what age group is it? Because, you know, I had, I had heard, you know, information of older Inuit people saying, Oh, we don't mind it.
00:29:10
Speaker
But they would have come through that time where the word Eskimo was commonplace. And they would have been raised, you know, through that time. And, you know, I mean, it's, it's since the 70s. Maybe their parents or grandparents had an Eskimo identification tag, right? Yeah, that's right. So the Eskimo identification tag system ran from 1941 officially 1941 to 71.
00:29:38
Speaker
in Canada. But it's in the mid-70s where Inuit from Greenland, from Siberia, Canada, all come together in a circumpolar conference and say, no, we're not called Eskimos anymore. We're called Inuit. And I thought Canada, Canada
00:30:06
Speaker
dropped that right away and used Inuit. And then we have the formations of ITK, Inuit Taparit Kanatami, and people who really push it that we are Inuit and not Eskimo. But that is happening in the 70s. And here we are 50 years later, and people are having a fit. So then you think, well, what?
00:30:36
Speaker
It's like the gap in their information, like where is their gap? And these Eskimo identification tags were, you know, an explicitly, you know, colonial anti-Inuit project, right? Like they wanted to keep track of where you were, was how you kind of access government. And it was also instituted because they just, you know, the government didn't want to learn how to say Inuit names, right?
00:31:02
Speaker
No, well, it goes further than that though, Duncan. Like you have to remember that Inuit only ever carried one name and that name was not a gendered name. So there weren't names for girls and names for boys. And you did not have a surname or a middle name. And so when we have, you know, the missionaries and followed by
00:31:29
Speaker
followed by what became the RCMP and other government employees going into the North, they're getting confused. They're not understanding the naming system. And they just say, OK, everyone's going to get a number. But in doing that, what you are removing is a traditional naming system
00:31:57
Speaker
and a traditional system of death and how those two events are ceremonial. And what they're bringing in are biblical Christian names and Inuit are being told that these are the names you have to use. And this is a list like these are girl names and these are boy names. And so in doing that, I mean,
00:32:26
Speaker
All commerce, all education, all access to healthcare was through that number that was issued out by the government. And if you did not present that number, you weren't buying anything from the store. You were not going to school. And your doctor, when they did come in, when they flew in, was not going to treat you.
00:32:55
Speaker
So Inuit, it becomes a very, very heavy, heavy system of surveillance because when we think of somebody having to purchase something at the store, well, now they know that this number comes in and spends X amount of dollars per week on these items. So it was to me the first really heavy system of surveillance
00:33:25
Speaker
And what people will often come back with is, well, I have a social insurance number, but the social insurance number didn't come into use in Canada until 1965. And it was put forward for TAC, initially for the unemployment insurance system and later for TAC.
00:33:48
Speaker
So, um, to me, the comparison can't be made. If you did not have that number, if you didn't memorize it, if you didn't have that necklace around your neck, you were, uh, you were receiving zero benefits whereby the rest of Canada, it wasn't a piece of paper, like, um, you know, it was a necklace. Yeah. So it's a string and, um,
00:34:18
Speaker
It's not plastic, it's a fabricated disc. So I generally, you know, generally the mothers took care of that and Inuit were told early on, you know, you will fall in line. You're going to know your number. And the quote that I use is,
00:34:43
Speaker
Once the Eskimo realizes that the white man expects him to memorize his number, he will fall in line. But I mean, this number is how you access to all the other, all the social benefits, all the social benefits that every Canadian had access to without a number.
Historical Injustices Against Inuit in Healthcare
00:35:10
Speaker
So that becomes the very, very important part is that the rest of Canada did not have to have their children scream out a number in school to mark their attendance. The rest of Canada wasn't having a number that gave them access to food.
00:35:35
Speaker
or education or healthcare. And so like the Eskimo Identification Canada system is the only system that Indigenous people globally experienced in the way that it was managed and it had such incredible longevity. So my book on that one is releasing in 2022.
00:36:03
Speaker
Yeah, no, I mean, it's incredibly interesting and structurally quite similar to the, like the reservation pass system, right? These systems of control. No, I won't take it to, to that Duncan, because, um, you know, the pass system is what got you on and off reserve. And, uh, you know, it was a really heavy system. I, but, um, nobody was having to use their number.
00:36:32
Speaker
to access health care and the expectation that when you were a kid and you're about six years old, you better have that number memorized. And so to me, the comparison is not correct. And we have to really think about how that number stayed into play long after the past system had been disbanded.
00:37:00
Speaker
So what happens to Inuit happens later, faster, in terms of in terms of how colonization worked in the north and, you know, then filters its way as Inuit are moving south, you know, so it's, um, to me, it's not a good comparison to say it's like the past system, not at all.
00:37:26
Speaker
Well, at the same time as this Eskimo identification Canada system is in place is simultaneously like at the same time we have, you know, the tuberculosis outbreak amongst Inuit people, right? And this is, you know, we commissioned you to write a story about Edmonton's, you know, real and actual historical relationship to the Inuit and these tuberculosis outbreaks
00:37:51
Speaker
that happened and the kind of mismanagement of them by the Canadian government is really the connection, like the source of the connection between Edmonton and the Inuit, right? Can you explain that a bit? Well, you know, it's huge in terms of population and how Inuit were just literally placed onto ships and brought into the council. At that time, it was the Charles Council Indian Hospital.
00:38:19
Speaker
and often not tested for TB, but just the assumption that, you know, that they were ill and brought in and generally their stays were one to two years. But and I've, you know, I've heard the stories of people who you're bedridden, even though you may not be ill, you're bedridden, and how some people, you know, their muscles atrophy,
00:38:48
Speaker
to the point where they have to relearn how to walk. And so it was just this mass influx of Inuit people who came into a hospital where nobody spoke their language, where they would have really no understanding of why they were there, but you're enclosed. So to me, it's similar to being placed into a jail and left there.
00:39:18
Speaker
Your number had to be used, of course, for your healthcare, having access to healthcare. And I've heard the, you know, and I believe it's Kevin Annette who has pictures of the Inuit children who are placed in front of the x-ray machines. And they're experimented upon.
00:39:43
Speaker
And what the experiment is driving at is wanting to know how long it takes for a child to dive from exposure of an x-ray of radiation. And that is in his book that is called Hidden from History.
00:40:06
Speaker
And so we have, you know, these little bits and pieces and snippets of the information, but I don't think I know that there is a researcher here while she isn't here. She's living in the US right now who has devoted a great deal of time into trying to pull together the history of the hospital and them.
00:40:30
Speaker
You know, the brutality of it all because often Inuit were discharged, but you're discharged with only the clothes on your back. And we have to remember that we're talking about a group of people who are not familiar with the language here in Edmonton at that time. They're not, um, they are, they are, they aren't working. Who's going to hire them?
00:41:00
Speaker
and you end up on the streets more than anything else and often well and there's still continued stories about families that are still
00:41:12
Speaker
looking for their family members, sisters and brothers who still think that there's a possibility that their family member is going to come home and they have no idea of what happened to them. So, you know, there's many injustices and many still open kind of cases. I don't know if we can go as far as to call them a cold case.
00:41:41
Speaker
But we have to see how, you know, it's how colonization managed Inuit people. And there were, there were, I'm thinking of a, he was an Anglican priest, who, you know, he rallied and tried to, he wrote to government over and over again, his last name was Marsh. And he kept asking the government to please put
00:42:10
Speaker
create a build, a sanitarium in the north, instead of removing people. And I mean, they come here, they have nothing, and they leave, they have nothing. And there's still so many, and it's sad, you know, that all these years later, that there are still people in the north of Canada who have this tiny little bit of hope
00:42:37
Speaker
that maybe their brother or sister will come home because they've never been given any official information. Yeah, I mean, incredibly sad and tragic to even contemplate that. And that is kind of part of, you know, the federal governments, the Canadian government's mishandling of this tuberculosis epidemic,
Silenced History of Inuit in Edmonton
00:43:03
Speaker
right? Which is that people were shipped all over
00:43:07
Speaker
a bunch never came back and they were functional. It was a dehumanizing process and a racist process that was put in place by the federal government. And this wasn't that long ago. These people are still alive, the ones who survived and their children are still alive and their grandchildren are still alive. And this is something that Canadians have to understand and contemplate. And it really is
00:43:34
Speaker
Incredible to me that the Charles cancel hospital is being redeveloped into condos I can't imagine anybody wanting to live there. I just I cannot even stand to admit it, but I think it's You know, it's it's a part of Eppinton history that is just you know, it's silenced and it's it's very much kind of left off and
00:44:02
Speaker
And my understanding is because I did do some research when I was working on the Eskimo Identification Canada System research, I did go over to the Royal Alberta Museum and they had some papers, archival papers and
00:44:23
Speaker
What I was hoping to see were the usage of the E numbers, the usage of that system on hospital records. But my understanding is the bulk of the hospital records miraculously caught fire. And so there isn't any real accurate records and the
00:44:47
Speaker
The paperwork that I was shown were mainly monthly newsletters where, you know, injury people are photographed as making soapstone art or reading in their bed. And, you know, these very much posed for photographs that demonstrated the hospital as a very good care center.
00:45:15
Speaker
But what people don't talk about are the number of deaths and Inuit being rounded up in the north without ever being tested. And now we're here in COVID and let's say we set up a COVID sanatorium.
00:45:33
Speaker
And we just started throwing everybody in off the street. You know, that's how much sense it makes. And, and I don't know if, um, I don't know if people even want to hear it. I'm pretty sure they don't, but when I have that information and I start to speak out against the word Eskimo, you know, that's a gap that the rest of the general public, they're uninformed.
00:46:02
Speaker
they don't understand the history of what happened to Inuit people here in Edmonton. And it's not to say that all history is bad or that it is all wrong because we do have groups like Largahouse here who take care of people who are coming in for medical treatment and still to this day Inuit patients
00:46:31
Speaker
need an Inuit translator. And so you can see where Inuktituk remains strong in the north at about 83 to 85%. And coming into Edmonton, they always are looking for a translator. And we do have a group out in Stony Plain, and it is called I Have a Chance. And it is a group that has supported
00:47:01
Speaker
Inuit mainly from Nunavut, but also from all over Canada, who arrive with physical or mental disabilities. And we have to remember in the North, there isn't any infrastructure to take care of Inuit that need that type of care. And IHAC has been out in Stony Plain for about 33 years now.
00:47:29
Speaker
But so we have all these things, we have all these Inuit people within Edmonton or within reach of Edmonton that we really don't know very much about. And so when we start kicking up about a word like Eskimo, there's all this other history that lies in behind it.
Understanding History for a Better Future
00:47:53
Speaker
And I think people don't, they don't understand the overall picture.
00:47:58
Speaker
What they understand is that their merchandise is going to go out of fashion. Yeah, I mean, I think I say this frequently. I think one of the most radicalizing things and eye-opening things you can do is actually go out and read history books and understand, you know, how the society that you live in, what it was built on and how it came to be.
00:48:26
Speaker
You know, I think that there is, you know, I think your piece is very good at kind of getting into that history. And I want to end our conversation with a quote from your piece that I think is very powerful. And we can kind of riff off that and then kind of move into the end of our conversation. But here's the quote.
00:48:46
Speaker
We get a sense of the loneliness and isolation that those inuit at the council must have felt now that we are living in the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic. People have experienced quarantine and the isolation that comes with it firsthand. Now imagine doing that thousands of kilometers from home in a totally alien environment you've never visited before with your caregivers speaking a language that is foreign to you.
00:49:09
Speaker
happier moments, I like to imagine a world free of colonialism. I like to imagine what it would have been like to have no interference in Inuit lives and to imagine what it would have been like to have Inuit arrive in Edmonton by choice, not by force. Let's build that world. I hope we can. You know, Duncan, I, you know, I've mentioned my grandchildren in the past and
00:49:33
Speaker
The work I do, I do for them. And I do for all the young Inuit who are going to come into the city to go to university, to go to Nate, to just try to create a better life for themselves. And I think we have to be able to look forward and we have to be able to provide good care and support
00:50:00
Speaker
to one another. And I would like, you know, if Edmontonians, if they knew that history, if they would take that little bit of time to really understand what happened here in the past and how important it is to create the best future. Thank you so much for coming on the show, Norma. I really appreciate this conversation and the work we've done together.
00:50:26
Speaker
Um, yeah, we're at the end of the show now. So what's, uh, what's the best way that people can, you know, find your book and support the work that you're doing? Um, best way, Audrey's, you know, downtown Audrey's and Amazon, you know, really, uh, especially with the pandemic, there was such a, you know, all the bookstores closed and, um, I don't know how much people have been able to restock.
00:50:51
Speaker
But both of my books are available at Audrey's and through Amazon. All right. Well, yeah, go get those books first.
Support and Contact Information
00:51:02
Speaker
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00:51:16
Speaker
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00:51:29
Speaker
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00:51:59
Speaker
Also, if you have any notes, thoughts, comments, things you think I need to hear, you can reach me on Twitter at Duncan Kinney, and you can reach me by email at DuncanK at ProgressAberta.ca. Thanks so much to Cosmic Family Communist for the amazing theme. Thanks so much to Norma for coming on the show. We really do appreciate it, Norma. Thank you, Duncan. And thank you for listening. Goodbye.