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96 ProWritingAid with Hayley Milliman
431 Plays3 years ago
ProWritingAid's Head of Community, Hayley Milliman drops by to tell us all about being the official sponsor of the RNA's Industry Awards 2022 and the wide range of services that their writing platform provides as well as her own writing projects and a brief stint running an adult-only Harry Potter convention.
Signing up to the Patreon will give you access to the Discord server, where you'll be able to interact directly with Jamie as well as many of the previous agents, authors and editors who have been on the show. You'll also be able to see who the upcoming guests are and put forward questions for Jamie to ask them.
Get a whole month with WriteMentor's Hub for free using the coupon code 'Write&Wrong'.
The Chosen Ones and Other Tropes
Jamie, Melissa and Noami talk about the best and the worst writing tropes!
Click here to find all of our guests' books as well as the desert island library over at bookshop.org.
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Transcript
Introduction to Right Mentor and Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode is brought to you in partnership with Right Mentor.
00:00:03
Speaker
If you're a children's writer, you've probably heard of Right Mentor, and if not, do I have a treat for you.
00:00:08
Speaker
Right Mentor is a group of authors and friends who've built a supportive system for fellow storytellers from picture books up to young adult that delivers mentoring programs, courses and conferences and much, much more.
00:00:17
Speaker
Right Mentor has a range of services, but if you stick around until the end of the episode, you can find out how to get an entire month of their premium subscription, the Right Mentor Hub, for free.
00:00:26
Speaker
So I will see you at the end.
00:00:28
Speaker
Now, let's get back to the episode.
00:00:29
Speaker
So our podcast is called Right and Wrong.
00:00:31
Speaker
Are these your notes?
00:00:33
Speaker
These.
00:00:33
Speaker
Are these your notes about what we're going to say?
00:00:36
Speaker
Anything.
00:00:36
Speaker
Nailed it.
00:00:36
Speaker
It's a short answer.
00:00:38
Speaker
So how many novels did you not finish?
00:00:41
Speaker
Oh my God, so many.
00:00:43
Speaker
It was perfect.
00:00:44
Speaker
What are you talking about?
00:00:45
Speaker
This is not a good one.
00:00:47
Speaker
Ooh, a spicy question.
00:00:49
Speaker
I love it.
00:00:49
Speaker
This is it, guys.
00:00:51
Speaker
The big secret to getting published is you have to write a good book.
00:00:55
Speaker
I can't.
00:00:56
Speaker
I'm going to hear first.
00:00:57
Speaker
What?
00:00:59
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the Right and Wrong podcast.
Guest Introduction: Hayley from ProWritingAid
00:01:02
Speaker
Continuing on with our partnership with the Romantic Novelists Association, I am joined by the Head of Education and Community at ProWritingAid, the official sponsor of the RNA Industry Awards 2022.
00:01:14
Speaker
Hi Hayley, welcome to the show.
00:01:16
Speaker
Hi, thank you so much for having me.
00:01:18
Speaker
I'm happy to be here.
00:01:19
Speaker
Thanks for coming on.
00:01:21
Speaker
Let's start off with, we're recording this the weekend after the awards themselves and you were there.
00:01:27
Speaker
I was there last year.
00:01:29
Speaker
How was it?
00:01:30
Speaker
How did you find the event?
00:01:31
Speaker
Oh, it was so much fun.
00:01:33
Speaker
It was just like such a great opportunity to see a bunch of people who love romance writing gathered in the same room and just having a blast.
00:01:42
Speaker
So I was so thankful that I could be there.
00:01:45
Speaker
It is a great event.
What is ProWritingAid?
00:01:47
Speaker
And let's talk about ProWritingAid, official sponsor of the awards.
00:01:52
Speaker
For me and everyone listening, what is ProWritingAid?
00:01:55
Speaker
What's it all about?
00:01:57
Speaker
Yeah, so ProWritingAid, we like to say it's like a grammar checker, style editor, and writing coach all in one kind of automated package that you get.
00:02:06
Speaker
But since most people who listen to your podcast, I assume, are writers or aspiring writers, where ProWritingAid really helps is kind of the copy editing portion of your writing journey when you're really paying attention to word choice and sentence structure and really how you can use language and
00:02:23
Speaker
to make your writing as effective as possible.
00:02:25
Speaker
So ProWritingAid does like the basic spelling grammar checks that you'll see in like something like Google Docs or Word.
00:02:32
Speaker
But then it will also do more in-depth checks on things like sensory words, on pacing, on sentence length, on how many sticky words you have in your sentences.
00:02:46
Speaker
Really, again, to just make sure that your copy is as clear and concise as possible so that it's ready for readers.
00:02:53
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:02:53
Speaker
So presumably it'll also flag if you use a certain adjective lots and lots of times or something like that.
00:03:01
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:03:01
Speaker
There's a repeated words check and an echoes check, which are two of my favorite reports because I tend to repeat myself when I'm working on my own fiction projects a lot.
00:03:11
Speaker
So those are frequent, frequent, infrequent use by me.
00:03:14
Speaker
What's the echo check then?
00:03:17
Speaker
So the Echo check looks for – so the Repeats check looks for like all repeated words or phrases from one to four words.
00:03:25
Speaker
The Echo's check looks a little bit more specifically at the like distance between repeats if that makes sense.
00:03:32
Speaker
So you can kind of – if you have a premium subscription to ProWritingAid, you can customize it to be like I want to see all of my repeated phrases within –
00:03:41
Speaker
100 words or something like that.
00:03:43
Speaker
So you can kind of set custom distances.
00:03:44
Speaker
So it's really more, um, it's about, it's about the specific kind of proximity a bit more than just like, have you repeated this word or phrase a lot of times, if that makes sense.
00:03:55
Speaker
Right.
00:03:56
Speaker
Okay.
00:03:56
Speaker
Yes.
00:03:57
Speaker
Cause obviously if you were writing a novel, which might be fiction, then you may wish to be repeating phrases, but they might be spaced out.
00:04:04
Speaker
Exactly.
00:04:06
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:04:06
Speaker
And then certain points you want to make sure that you're not repeating yourself within, you know,
00:04:11
Speaker
50 words, because that's going to set off that kind of echo in the reader's mind that's like, oh, didn't they just say this?
00:04:18
Speaker
Whereas, again, exactly as you said, you will likely be repeating some words and phrases throughout the entire manuscript.
00:04:25
Speaker
It helps narrow in on making sure that that distance is what you want it to be.
00:04:30
Speaker
Okay.
00:04:30
Speaker
And you mentioned that's something that you can get as part of the premium subscription.
ProWritingAid Features and Subscriptions
00:04:36
Speaker
How does the subscription work?
00:04:38
Speaker
Are there lots of tiers?
00:04:40
Speaker
Yeah, there's actually only two, right?
00:04:41
Speaker
Well, there's three.
00:04:43
Speaker
We have our free version is available for everyone and you can use all of the reports.
00:04:48
Speaker
So repeats and echoes, like I just mentioned, those are available on the free report.
00:04:52
Speaker
But what you can do if you go to premium is you can customize it.
00:04:55
Speaker
So we set echoes at like a standard word count length.
00:04:59
Speaker
But if you're at the premium tier, you can customize that so you can make the word count length that you want to use.
00:05:05
Speaker
measure against smaller, larger, something like that.
00:05:08
Speaker
But we basically give you the opportunity to customize your reports a bit more at the premium level.
00:05:13
Speaker
So you can access the vast majority of our reports at the free level.
00:05:17
Speaker
But once you go premium, you turn on additional features again to kind of customize those.
00:05:22
Speaker
So for instance, you could at premium decide that you don't want particular rules to apply
00:05:29
Speaker
in dialogue.
00:05:30
Speaker
So you wouldn't see, you know, corrections on usage of cliches or grammatical errors or something like that in dialogue.
00:05:37
Speaker
You would be able to customize your repeats and echo settings.
00:05:40
Speaker
We also offer author comparisons so you can compare your work to well-known authors in your genre, which is a very fun, fun feature.
00:05:51
Speaker
So yeah, so we have the free version, which is,
00:05:54
Speaker
Again, all the reports are available, except you can't customize them quite as much.
00:05:58
Speaker
And there's a 500 word count limit.
00:06:00
Speaker
Then if you go premium, you can check an unlimited amount of words, you can customize your reports.
00:06:06
Speaker
And then we also have a premium plus, which basically does all of that, but adds on plagiarism checks, if that is something, you know, if you're a student writer or something like that, that you're concerned about.
00:06:14
Speaker
Is the free version, is it a sort of trial or is it literally a... It's free forever.
00:06:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:20
Speaker
Free forever.
00:06:21
Speaker
Okay.
00:06:21
Speaker
Okay.
00:06:21
Speaker
So you can try it for as long as you want.
00:06:23
Speaker
Exactly.
00:06:24
Speaker
Decide how you want to do it.
00:06:25
Speaker
Okay.
00:06:25
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:06:27
Speaker
And you yourself, Hayley, you are a writer.
00:06:30
Speaker
Yes, I am.
00:06:31
Speaker
Yeah, I am.
00:06:33
Speaker
I've written, well, I've been writing for basically as long as I can remember.
00:06:39
Speaker
I started writing fan fiction as like a little eight-year-old and then have been writing since then.
00:06:45
Speaker
I've been writing professionally since I was about 23.
00:06:48
Speaker
I've done a lot of blogging.
00:06:49
Speaker
I've worked on creative nonfiction projects for clients.
00:06:53
Speaker
And then I've drafted several fiction manuscripts, but I haven't started querying any of them yet.
00:06:58
Speaker
So hopefully sometime soon.
00:06:59
Speaker
Okay.
00:07:00
Speaker
Okay.
00:07:00
Speaker
Fingers crossed.
00:07:01
Speaker
Yes.
00:07:02
Speaker
And so as someone who has been writing for a long time now, and presumably has, I would guess from ProWritingAid, you have a fairly good understanding of the layout of the industry.
00:07:14
Speaker
Yes.
00:07:15
Speaker
Do you use ProWritingAid for your writing?
00:07:18
Speaker
Yes, I do.
00:07:20
Speaker
And I don't just say that.
00:07:21
Speaker
It really has made me – I think it's probably the second most impactful tool or person on the craft of my writing.
00:07:31
Speaker
So when I first started writing professionally when I was about 24, I had an editor who would always flag unclear antecedents.
00:07:41
Speaker
And she did it in every single post, every single article that I turned into her.
00:07:45
Speaker
And it was really helpful.
00:07:47
Speaker
And it kind of stuck in my mind that I had a habit of using unclear antecedents, et cetera.
00:07:53
Speaker
And so providing it has basically done that for me and it's done it automatically and it does it in everything that I write.
00:08:03
Speaker
So, you know, a couple of things that it just fixes for me all the time are, you know, redundancies.
00:08:08
Speaker
Like if I'm using the same or similar adjectives that mean the same thing.
00:08:13
Speaker
It has broken me of my adverb bad habits and really helps me use stronger verbs and adjectives.
00:08:20
Speaker
And I say this quite honestly, I use it in every single thing I write from emails to fiction pieces.
00:08:27
Speaker
And I manage a team of writers now for ProWritingAid.
00:08:30
Speaker
And I can always tell if one of our writers has not used ProWritingAid.
00:08:33
Speaker
And I'll feel like, please go back and run this through because you have some...
00:08:41
Speaker
redundant language.
00:08:42
Speaker
It's a little bit too complex, things like that.
00:08:44
Speaker
So yeah, it's really, really valuable.
00:08:46
Speaker
And like I said, it's customizable for basically everything that you're writing from an email to a fiction novel.
00:08:53
Speaker
Um,
00:08:53
Speaker
Yeah, of course.
00:08:54
Speaker
And obviously I will always gravitate towards fiction because that's my home.
00:09:00
Speaker
That's where I live.
00:09:01
Speaker
But it is also, as you said, a business tool for sort of industry related stuff.
00:09:09
Speaker
You mentioned when we started that for fiction writers, it's going to be a large portion of the sort of copy editing part of the process.
00:09:19
Speaker
So what else does it offer in terms of doing business or industry related?
00:09:23
Speaker
stuff.
Custom Suggestions and Event Offerings
00:09:24
Speaker
Yeah, totally.
00:09:24
Speaker
So you can customize, even at the free level, you can set your document type.
00:09:30
Speaker
And when you set your document type, you get specific goals for whatever type of project you're working on.
00:09:35
Speaker
So like we mentioned, that could be a fiction novel, and you could say I'm working on a fantasy novel, or you could say I'm working on a
00:09:44
Speaker
job application or a business email or a sales letter or a blog post or an academic essay.
00:09:51
Speaker
You can really kind of pick whatever document type makes the most sense for you.
00:09:54
Speaker
And then when you do that, you get custom suggestions that are related to that particular document.
00:09:59
Speaker
So if you are working on a fiction manuscript, you might have suggestions related to sensory words, which are not
00:10:07
Speaker
likely going to be as important if you're working on a cover letter or a resume.
00:10:11
Speaker
So then if you're working on one of those, you'll receive suggestions that relate to style, grammar, spelling, but also things like IU linkers or phrases that link the company to you or phrases that it'll say, hey, you should add something that
00:10:29
Speaker
explains how you're going to be valuable to this company or things like that.
00:10:33
Speaker
So it really gives, again, those kind of custom suggestions for whatever that is.
00:10:37
Speaker
If it's a sales email, it might say, you know, you need to link the customer to the company more, or you need to have a better benefit here.
00:10:45
Speaker
So again, it has that kind of same basic
00:10:47
Speaker
those same basic core reports for all of them, which are again, going to fix and find grammar style and spelling errors.
00:10:54
Speaker
But then you'll also get custom goals, um, dependent on the specific, uh, document type that you're writing.
00:11:01
Speaker
Right.
00:11:01
Speaker
Okay.
00:11:02
Speaker
So you kind of enter the goals beforehand.
00:11:05
Speaker
You enter your document type and then we populate the goals.
00:11:07
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:11:08
Speaker
Okay.
00:11:09
Speaker
So I wonder, as someone who uses it for both nonfiction and fiction and business work stuff, do you find that the sort of the errors, the sort of the things that flag up are very different across those different things?
00:11:26
Speaker
Yeah, I find that the errors are very different.
00:11:28
Speaker
Again, you know, we probably have, I would say, four to five goals that are in common between them, but then there's a lot of customization that happens depending on the document type.
00:11:38
Speaker
So again, for CV, they'll have power verbs or, you know,
00:11:43
Speaker
Wii U linkers or something like that.
00:11:45
Speaker
Whereas for, you know, fiction, it would have dialogue tags and dialogue tags with adverbs.
00:11:49
Speaker
So it really does customize based on what you're writing.
00:11:51
Speaker
Um, and then I also find that my process of using pro writing aid is really different depending on what I'm writing.
00:11:57
Speaker
Um, if I'm writing for work, I will use it, um,
00:12:02
Speaker
pretty much as I'm writing, particularly if I'm using an email, we have a real-time checker that works, as it sounds, in real time.
00:12:09
Speaker
So it gives you feedback at that moment.
00:12:12
Speaker
But if I am working on fiction, I will not turn it on until I'm actually ready to edit or else I won't get anything done because I'll just be going back and looking at all the suggestions.
00:12:21
Speaker
So when I'm working on fiction, I will likely only use it after I've completed a draft.
00:12:27
Speaker
I try to be as...
00:12:30
Speaker
regimented as possible about just writing and not editing and approaching writing and editing in separate stages.
00:12:35
Speaker
I'm not always as good as that, that as I can be, but yeah, I'll use pro writing aid, particularly when I write fiction later on in the process.
00:12:45
Speaker
Um, whereas I have it on all the time for emails and work stuff.
00:12:49
Speaker
Sure.
00:12:49
Speaker
Of course.
00:12:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:51
Speaker
If you don't mind me asking what, what sort of, uh, fiction are you writing?
00:12:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:55
Speaker
So I have a little bit of everything is the answer.
00:12:59
Speaker
I have a fantasy manuscript that I've been working on for a really long time that I would love to share with the world at some point, but I have a lot of writer, writerly angst about it.
00:13:12
Speaker
And then I also have like a fun romance novel, which I will likely query more sooner just because it's
00:13:19
Speaker
I feel a little less attached to it.
00:13:21
Speaker
Um, and then I'm doing NaNoWriMo right now, actually with one of my pro writing aid, uh, colleagues and we're working on a fun crime novel.
00:13:28
Speaker
That's, uh, loosely inspired, very loosely inspired by our company.
00:13:35
Speaker
Um, but it's, yeah, it's a lot of fun.
00:13:37
Speaker
Okay.
00:13:38
Speaker
So that's pretty eclectic.
00:13:39
Speaker
Yes.
00:13:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:40
Speaker
I'm trying it all.
00:13:41
Speaker
There's at least some crossover.
00:13:43
Speaker
I read widely and I like to write, you know, widely as well.
00:13:46
Speaker
I think it's, um, it's a lot of fun.
00:13:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:50
Speaker
And have you ever submitted to agents before?
00:13:53
Speaker
I have not.
00:13:54
Speaker
I, uh, I feel like I, at this point I feel almost as if I should, because one of the really fortunate perks of my particular work at ProWritingAid is that I get to meet a lot of agents and work to work with a lot of agents and also meet and interview a lot of authors.
00:14:10
Speaker
Um, and at this point I really feel like I have no excuse except my own angst and nerves about sharing things with folks, uh,
00:14:18
Speaker
That is preventing me.
00:14:20
Speaker
But yeah, I should start.
00:14:22
Speaker
You're not alone, though.
00:14:23
Speaker
Don't worry.
00:14:24
Speaker
It's very common amongst writers.
00:14:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:27
Speaker
So with your with pro writing aid, in what capacity are you meeting agents?
00:14:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:33
Speaker
So we are really passionate about at ProWritingAid about not just creating a great piece of software that everyone can use, but also just about supporting writers in all stages of their writing journeys.
00:14:45
Speaker
So we offer just tons of free events throughout the year that anyone can attend, whether they're a ProWritingAid user or not.
00:14:53
Speaker
And that's my job is to organize those events.
00:14:57
Speaker
So this past year, we had about 35,000 people come to four big
00:15:02
Speaker
weeks that we had.
00:15:02
Speaker
We had fantasy writers week in February where we interviewed people like V.E.
00:15:07
Speaker
Schwab and Tomi Adeyemi.
00:15:09
Speaker
Then we had crime writers week in June.
00:15:13
Speaker
We had sci-fi week in I think it was August.
00:15:18
Speaker
And then romance writers week just happened in October.
00:15:23
Speaker
And next year in 2023, we're hoping to do one of those events per month.
00:15:27
Speaker
So we're expanding our genres and really just, you know, we bring in
00:15:32
Speaker
both writers, like I just mentioned.
00:15:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:35
Speaker
So this year I've gotten to interview V.E.
00:15:37
Speaker
Schwab, which was huge for me.
00:15:39
Speaker
Taylor Jenkins Reid at Romance Week.
00:15:41
Speaker
Andy Weir at Sci-Fi Week.
00:15:44
Speaker
Yeah, it was just, it was truly amazing.
00:15:46
Speaker
And then we also bring in industry experts.
00:15:48
Speaker
So folks like agents, editors,
00:15:51
Speaker
And then also book coaches and developmental editors and copy editors to teach workshops as well.
00:15:56
Speaker
So it's really just such a fun time.
00:15:59
Speaker
And yeah, like I said, my job is to kind of organize those events and host them.
00:16:05
Speaker
Wow.
00:16:06
Speaker
I feel very lucky.
00:16:07
Speaker
Yeah, those sound great.
00:16:08
Speaker
And yeah, you must meet some amazing people doing those.
00:16:11
Speaker
Yes.
00:16:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:14
Speaker
What's the format for that kind of thing?
00:16:15
Speaker
Like, is it a big space that you rent out and then...
00:16:19
Speaker
We actually do them all online.
00:16:20
Speaker
So anyone can access them.
00:16:21
Speaker
So, um, yeah, if you just head to our website, prowritingaid.com, you'll be able to see what events we have coming up.
00:16:28
Speaker
Um, they're all online.
00:16:29
Speaker
They're all via zoom.
00:16:30
Speaker
They're free for everyone to attend.
00:16:32
Speaker
And then we leave the replays up for two weeks.
00:16:34
Speaker
So if you can't make it during the week itself, you can check them out afterwards.
00:16:38
Speaker
Um,
00:16:39
Speaker
And if you would like long term access, we have a way to purchase that as well.
00:16:43
Speaker
But yeah, they're just on Zoom, which is really fun.
00:16:45
Speaker
It makes it, I think, easier for the authors and the folks that we have come speak, makes them more willing to come.
00:16:50
Speaker
And then it allows us to really like open it up to a broader range of people to attend as well.
00:16:56
Speaker
Oh, very cool.
00:16:57
Speaker
So what's the next one coming up?
00:16:59
Speaker
So we have our first creative nonfiction, so like memoir event coming up in January.
00:17:07
Speaker
Then we are also booking for fantasy week, which will be at the end of February.
00:17:12
Speaker
And then, like I said, we're hoping to have one a month next year, which will be really exciting.
00:17:17
Speaker
So yeah, a lot's coming.
00:17:19
Speaker
And I mean, it's a lot of genres that you're going to have to go through if you're going to do one a month.
00:17:25
Speaker
Yes.
00:17:26
Speaker
It's a lot of, I think we are, we're probably not going to the ones that we've done this year.
00:17:32
Speaker
And in 2021, we're all a week long each.
00:17:35
Speaker
Um, we probably won't have them be a week long each, uh, for 2023.
00:17:40
Speaker
Um, we'll probably do, I think the four pillar ones that I just mentioned.
00:17:44
Speaker
So fantasy crime, science fiction, and romance will all be about a week.
00:17:48
Speaker
And then we'll do some like shorter, you know, one, two, three day events.
00:17:52
Speaker
Um,
00:17:53
Speaker
in the, the interest, the off months between them, like the memoir one is going to be a two day event rather than a week.
00:18:01
Speaker
Um, just cause yeah, at this stage, uh, I have other parts of my job as well, but maybe in the future, this will be the only thing I do.
00:18:08
Speaker
And that'd be exciting.
00:18:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:11
Speaker
You've got me thinking now.
00:18:12
Speaker
So pro writing, you're, you're trying to sort of, um, help people out every stage of the sort of writing journey.
00:18:19
Speaker
Yep.
00:18:20
Speaker
Do you, when you were talking about the formats, when you open up the program and you choose like what sort of thing you're writing, do you have a sort of submission outline?
00:18:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:33
Speaker
You know, we don't, but we should.
00:18:35
Speaker
We should also have a query letter on it.
00:18:37
Speaker
Yeah, we should have both of those things because as I mentioned, I am struggling with those myself.
00:18:44
Speaker
So it would be great to have those.
00:18:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:46
Speaker
A synopsis one, maybe.
00:18:47
Speaker
Yes.
00:18:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:49
Speaker
So hard to write a synopsis.
00:18:50
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:18:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:51
Speaker
We really need, I think, I mean, and that's one of the, I think, great things about our program is that we're adding, I think we probably added 15 different document types this year and we'll just keep adding more as we go to make it as useful as possible.
00:19:07
Speaker
I think, you know, one of the things, I'm obviously biased since I work for ProWritingAid, but I think one of the things that does separate us from some of the other competitors out there is just that we're
00:19:18
Speaker
Our whole team or most of our team are writers and are really passionate.
00:19:23
Speaker
It was built, our CEO built the tool because he wanted to become a fiction writer and needed something to help him.
00:19:29
Speaker
And that kind of ethos has really permeated basically everything we do.
00:19:34
Speaker
It's kind of like, well, what do people want?
00:19:36
Speaker
What are folks struggling with?
00:19:38
Speaker
And how can we build something that will help them with that?
00:19:41
Speaker
Very cool.
00:19:42
Speaker
Yes.
00:19:43
Speaker
I'm a big fan of organizations who are, who are built from sort of writing groups that are built from everyone as a writer.
00:19:51
Speaker
So everyone kind of understands the, the, the problems, the issues, the journey that, you know, what's good, what's bad, what could use some help.
00:19:58
Speaker
Yes, exactly.
00:19:59
Speaker
Yep.
00:20:00
Speaker
And before I get on to the final question, I was looking up your website and I have to ask, do you run an adult-only Harry Potter convention?
Fun Anecdote: Harry Potter Convention
00:20:12
Speaker
I did.
00:20:13
Speaker
I was like, oh no, what website?
00:20:15
Speaker
I did for a long time.
00:20:16
Speaker
Well, not for a long time, for about a year and a half.
00:20:19
Speaker
Yes, I did.
00:20:23
Speaker
My college roommate, my university roommate is a screenwriter in Hollywood and she just like,
00:20:31
Speaker
she randomly for one birthday decided that she wanted everybody to come in costume and like do this like stand up Harry Potter skit.
00:20:39
Speaker
Is it maybe her like 21st birthday or 22nd or something?
00:20:41
Speaker
And so they did that.
00:20:42
Speaker
And then it became, we went to school in New York and it became like a big enough thing that the next year she like invited more people and charged $5.
00:20:50
Speaker
And then somehow she got like a contract with Live Nation to take it on tour.
00:20:55
Speaker
And I like signed on to help her.
00:20:57
Speaker
manage it.
00:20:57
Speaker
It was a very weird period of my life, but very fun.
00:21:01
Speaker
That's great.
00:21:02
Speaker
I love that.
00:21:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:03
Speaker
Was it just a sort of big open field and everyone was dressed as wizards?
00:21:07
Speaker
We did them actually in like performance halls.
00:21:11
Speaker
And so it was more of like a stand-up comedy, I think, event than like a con.
00:21:18
Speaker
So we had stand-up comedians come and host like a sorting and then like costume contests and like do skits and stuff like that.
00:21:26
Speaker
So it was really fun.
00:21:27
Speaker
It was a very wild, very wild time in my life.
00:21:32
Speaker
We eventually ran a bit afoul of Warner Brothers and then...
00:21:37
Speaker
shut down but it was fun the adult only uh preface was uh was uh made me think maybe warner brothers would yeah they were they were not thrilled um and it was i it was a very scary phone call that i got and then i was like oh my gosh this is like we didn't mean for this it's totally fine um but yeah it was it was a lot of fun and i still own like
00:22:02
Speaker
I have a shipping container somewhere with just like thousands of wands, you know, like chopsticks that we used to make wands.
00:22:08
Speaker
Like you do.
00:22:09
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:22:10
Speaker
A giant chess set, like all those, you know, all those things that you never know when you might use.
00:22:14
Speaker
Yeah, you never know.
00:22:16
Speaker
Exactly.
00:22:18
Speaker
Awesome.
00:22:18
Speaker
But that sounds great.
00:22:19
Speaker
What a wild and exciting thing to have experienced.
00:22:22
Speaker
Yes.
00:22:23
Speaker
Which will probably never happen again because Warner Brothers will be very strict on it now.
00:22:26
Speaker
Yeah, no, there's no, I have no, I would never want to try to do anything with like Warner Brothers Disney.
00:22:32
Speaker
I'm like, okay, you guys, you guys do whatever you like.
00:22:36
Speaker
Okay, amazing.
Desert Island Book Choice
00:22:37
Speaker
Well, that does bring us on to the final question, which, as always, is Hayley, if you were stranded on a desert island with a single book, which book would it be?
00:22:48
Speaker
I thought a lot about this.
00:22:49
Speaker
And then as I was preparing for this, I was trying to find if I, if there was one copy that existed that combined the two books that I wanted to take, because it's a duology.
00:23:01
Speaker
I don't think there's ever, there's an edition that combines both of them.
00:23:05
Speaker
But I was looking for something that combined the Six of Crows duology by Leigh Bardugo into one.
00:23:10
Speaker
But I don't know that there is one copy that just has one of them.
00:23:13
Speaker
So I would take Crooked Kingdom, Crooked Kingdom, which is the second book in that duology.
00:23:19
Speaker
But if anyone has a complete copy of both of them and then is sending me to a desert island, I would just, you could just take the spines off.
00:23:27
Speaker
Yes.
00:23:28
Speaker
I would sew them together.
00:23:30
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:23:31
Speaker
Just duct tape.
00:23:32
Speaker
Perfect.
00:23:33
Speaker
Exactly.
00:23:35
Speaker
That's great.
00:23:35
Speaker
I mean, Six of Crows is so iconic.
00:23:37
Speaker
And it was one of those ones that BookTok is obsessed with.
00:23:40
Speaker
Yes.
00:23:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:41
Speaker
I've loved it for a very long time.
00:23:44
Speaker
And I'm glad that I'm glad, I guess I'm glad that BookTok likes it as well.
00:23:49
Speaker
You're vindicated.
00:23:50
Speaker
Yes, exactly.
00:23:52
Speaker
Amazing.
00:23:52
Speaker
A great choice.
00:23:53
Speaker
I think the first time that we've had that on the desert island.
00:23:57
Speaker
So an original as well.
00:23:58
Speaker
Great.
00:24:00
Speaker
Well, thank you so much, Hayley, for coming on the podcast and telling us all about ProWritingAid, as well as your sort of experiences with writing and, of course, the Harry Potter convention.
Encouragement to Join Write Mentor Hub
00:24:11
Speaker
Yes, thank you so much for having me.
00:24:13
Speaker
Oh, it's been my pleasure.
00:24:14
Speaker
And for anyone listening, if you want to keep up with what Hayley is doing, you can follow her on Twitter at Hayley Milliman or follow ProWritingAid at ProWritingAid on Twitter and on Instagram.
00:24:26
Speaker
It's at ProWritingAid.insta.
00:24:29
Speaker
You can, of course, head over to the website www.prowritingaid.com.
00:24:35
Speaker
And to make sure you don't miss an episode of this podcast, follow us on Twitter at RightAndWrongUK or on Instagram and TikTok at RightAndWrongPodcast.
00:24:42
Speaker
Thanks again to Hayley and thanks to everyone listening.
00:24:44
Speaker
We'll catch you on the next episode.
00:24:49
Speaker
Thanks for hanging around to the end.
00:24:50
Speaker
Now, let me tell you about Write Mentors Hub.
00:24:53
Speaker
A subscription to Write Mentors Hub gives you access to an online community where children's writers at any stage of their writing and publishing journeys can interact, share advice, offer support, develop craft, and advance their careers.
00:25:03
Speaker
From craft talks to TikTok strategies, a shoulder to cry on while querying agents, or marketing advice for your soon-to-be-published debut, there's something for everyone.
00:25:11
Speaker
Every day is a writing day for hub members with an ever-growing range of initiatives like critique groups, workshops, pitching events, writing sprints, Q&As, and many, many more.
00:25:19
Speaker
The hub is constantly expanding, so go and check out the WriteMentor website for the full and up-to-date list of member-only benefits.
00:25:25
Speaker
You can get your first month completely free if you enter the coupon code RIGHTANDWRONG at the online checkout.
00:25:31
Speaker
That's W-R-I-T-E, the and symbol, W-R-O-N-G, at checkout for your first month free.
00:25:38
Speaker
So go join the Hub, Write Mentor's supportive community of storytellers, because writing can be lonely, but it doesn't need to be.