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Mary Engelbreit on Illustration, Creativity, and 50 Years of Art
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For nearly five decades, illustrator Mary Engelbreit has brought joy to everyday life through her unmistakable style—bright colors, whimsical characters, and thoughtful messages that feel both nostalgic and timeless. What began as a love of drawing and storytelling grew into a creative legacy spanning books, greeting cards, home goods, and generations of devoted fans.
On this episode of the ReBloom Podcast, Mary reflects on the creative pivots that shaped her career, including how an early dream of illustrating children’s books led her—unexpectedly—into the world of greeting cards. That pivot opened the door to an extraordinary body of work that has reached millions through thousands of products and collaborations.
In our conversation, Mary shares what it means to sustain a creative life over decades: the discipline of continuing to draw, the courage to follow opportunities that appear along the way, and the simple joy that still fuels her work today.
If you have ever wondered how creativity endures over a lifetime—or how one artist’s imagination can bring delight to so many—this conversation offers both inspiration and perspective. We hope you will enjoy this wonderful conversation with Mary Engelbreit.
Website: https://maryengelbreit.com/
Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/maryengelbreit?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw==
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/138832742816692?ref=NONE_xav_ig_profile_page_web
Big thank you to our sponsor: Jet Creative: A women-owned marketing firm committed to community and empowerment. Whether you’re launching a podcast or building a website, Jet Creative can help you get started. Visit JetCreative.com/Podcast to kickstart your journey!
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Transcript
Introduction to Rebloom Podcast
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to Rebloom, a podcast about change, creativity, and coming back to yourself. We are Lori and Jamie, and this is a space for honest conversations with people who felt that quiet nudge to realign, whether that's in their work, their creativity, or their everyday lives.
00:00:21
Speaker
Each episode is a conversation about becoming, about listening closely, making shifts, and finding your way back to what matters. So if you are in a season of change, you're questioning or starting again, are really glad you're here.
Admiration for Mary Englebright
00:00:39
Speaker
Oh my gosh, I wish that I could go every week out to coffee with our guest and just chat about her life, her experiences, how she sees the world, all of it. I did get the honor of spending some time with her a couple years ago, and i just, I long to spend more time with Mary Englebright.
00:01:03
Speaker
Mary Englebright is our guest today, everyone. And she had a magazine called Home Companion. And I loved this magazine. In fact, I still have many copies of this magazine that I've saved because she is the friend or the companion that I think we all always wanted. And when she came into your home, um whether whether it was her beautiful products or her magazine, you felt like you were getting a warm hug.
00:01:32
Speaker
And I hope you will feel that today when you hear her journey and how incredible um her past almost 50 years have been in the art world. It's just a beautiful story.
00:01:47
Speaker
And kind of unheard of to have that longevity. That longevity and and ah and a few pivots along the way. So thank you everyone for tuning in and you are going to enjoy this amazing conversation with Mary Engelbrey.
Mary's Artistic Beginnings
00:02:08
Speaker
Hey, my friend Lori, how are you today? Well, it's been freezing here, James. So I've been holed up in the house and filming classes and painting in my journal and i don't know, trying to stay warm.
00:02:22
Speaker
i think we're all hibernating and we're all kind of trying to get cozy. And i think this is the perfect guest for for that kind of feeling when you want to get cozy and warm, and just feel like you've had a big hug, huh?
00:02:40
Speaker
That is so true. So this is a special interview with my friend Mary Engelbright, who I was honored to do some work for a couple years ago.
Pioneering Art Licensing
00:02:51
Speaker
um But she is kind of the pioneer queen of art licensing from the very start of it.
00:03:00
Speaker
But she's pivoted in so many interesting ways. She's had retail stores. She's written umpteen books. She had an amazing magazine called Home Companion, which was my favorite magazine of all time. Mine too, mine too. And I know she's pivoting again in her business. And so we just want to welcome you on and hear more about your story. Hi, Mary. hi Mary. well Welcome. guys We are good. We are good. And Mary, Lori gets to know you. This is just an honor. I, like Lori, have loved your work for years. And so thank you for joining us today and sharing your journey.
00:03:40
Speaker
oh thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Oh my gosh. All right. So I'll, I'm going to just start
Gaining Practical Art Education
00:03:46
Speaker
Laura. I'm going to start with. You do it this time. I know she, Lori loves to go back to when you were a child and I was like, well, maybe we should start with more what she did if she went to art school or that type of thing. But you do have a lot of obviously children in your illustration. So I guess we should start. Did, did, did your love of art start as a child and how did that evolve? Oh, it definitely did. Um,
00:04:12
Speaker
And I think it was because my mother read to us every night. um And a lot of the books were older. They were either hers or her mother's when they were children.
00:04:23
Speaker
And so they had these great, you know, old illustrations, which I loved as much as the books. And so I would start by illustrating those books myself or copying those illustrations. And um I always wanted to be an artist and I,
00:04:42
Speaker
always wanted to illustrate books. And my mother said, i I said that from when I was very young. So yeah. Interesting. Did they encourage that? Did they encourage?
00:04:54
Speaker
Oh, that's nice. So supportive. Always had art supplies in the house and never questioned that I, what I wanted to do. um Gave me art lessons and Yeah, just so supportive. Very similar in my
Evolution of Greeting Card Business
00:05:11
Speaker
house. But didn't like my parents, neither one of them were artists. Oh, no. i was kind of an oddball, but they still encouraged it. Was that the same for you? Exactly. Yeah, neither one of them were artists, but they um they were fine with it. you know
00:05:28
Speaker
I found out later my father said, how is she going make a living? Yeah. well yes But he never said that to me. Really? No. And as a matter of fact, he, ah when I was older, I wanted to buy, i had been working in an art supply store and I was saving my money because I wanted to buy an art table.
00:05:49
Speaker
um And he said, absolutely, you should get that. If you're, you know, if you're going to be an artist, you should have the best equipment you can get. And, and um you should definitely, you know, buy all the supplies you need.
00:06:05
Speaker
And it was like this permission, you know, ah but I always felt that, that I had permission, but he wasn't a, you know, what do I want to say? It was like all men. Yeah. More black and white. Yeah. Yeah. And um it was just so encouraging to hear him say that. Wow. i love that. Yeah. Did you end up going to school for art?
00:06:28
Speaker
I didn't. I hated school. Ah. um And I just could not wait to get out and work. I wanted to work. Okay. So I, and you probably have heard this story. Everybody's probably heard this boring story. But um I got a job at an art supply store that I had been going to all my life.
00:06:50
Speaker
And so I met a lot of working artists there coming in to buy their supplies. So I realized that you could make a living doing it. A lot of great people work there. And i that's where I learned, you know, they had supplies for every single kind of art you could think of. And so that's where I learned a lot about ah different art supplies. Cause I had only ever been using pen and ink.
00:07:14
Speaker
um And I had my first show there. so it was, that was a great place to work. And then my next job was at a little tiny ad agency, uh, down in this really fun neighborhood called the central West end here in St. Louis. And he taught me, um you know, how to deal with clients, how to lay out an ad, which i had no clue, you know, all those things that I assume you learn in art school. I don't know, but, um,
00:07:48
Speaker
And then how to bill for my time, you know, what what your time is worth and that kind of thing. um So between those two jobs, I feel like I got a great art education. Yeah. That's such an interesting way to get ah educated. Yeah. Like both the practical, like one, the art supplies were how to make the work. Right. And then the other, how to make a living with the art. Right. It was, and I don't even think you do learn that in art school. Maybe you do now. No, you don't. and No, I don't know if even today, if they teach that. They should.
00:08:25
Speaker
They should. They absolutely should. They absolutely should. yeah So you, you were with the ad agency and then were you drawing all along the, all along? Yeah.
00:08:36
Speaker
Yeah. That's what I did. It was just the two of us. Okay. The guy and me. And so he handled getting the clients and all the business end of it. And I did most of the drawing.
00:08:48
Speaker
That's amazing. you know, we did ads for like St. Louis companies, Brown Shoe. And remember designing a couple of shoe boxes for them and 7up and things like that. then smaller business clients.
00:09:04
Speaker
It was it wasn't great fun. So how did the the card line come about? Was that your first foray into licensing? um Yes. i After he left town, moved back to Texas, I took on some of those clients freelance. And then I, um how did this go?
00:09:29
Speaker
So long ago. um I started ah having shows at a little bookstore here in town. And I would draw these, well, I would draw these little things that I eventually turned into cards.
00:09:44
Speaker
But, you know, even before then, in high school, i um was drawing cards for a local store. I bought some blank wedding invitations, and I would hand draw every card. And I was mainly illustrating songs, lines from songs like Crosby, Stills and Nash and Joni Mitchell.
00:10:03
Speaker
Totally illegal. but I was just, you know, selling them to this local store. She'd pay me 25 cents sense each. oh my oh my gosh.
00:10:17
Speaker
And, um, so that was my first foray into the card business. And then after I started having these shows and they were so popular, they were sold out, everything would sell out the first day. And, and, uh,
00:10:34
Speaker
My husband had a good friend who is in publishing in New York and he set up some interviews for me at book publishers. And, um which is very nice of him, but that is not how book publishers hire artists.
00:10:47
Speaker
They have their own stable of artists and they, you know, but they all saw me, which I thought was so nice. I'm sure I can credit my husband's friend for that. But um one of them suggested, none of them wanted me to illustrate books, But one of them suggested, why don't you do greeting cards? And I don't know why I hadn't thought of that since I had already. Yeah, it's like right in front of you sometimes. You just don't see it. Yeah.
00:11:13
Speaker
And they are always, and I believe this is still true, they're always looking for the next new thing. um So I sent my some of my work to about three different ones, and um they all took them.
00:11:29
Speaker
That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. But then I eventually went with Sunrise, which is no longer, but it was a great company. That's amazing. Wow. So tell us a little bit how that evolved into your full-blown business. and yeah And I know you had some pivots where some things went awry in the business, and you had to pivot because of that.
Impact of 2008 Market Crash
00:11:53
Speaker
Oh, yeah. So share all the tea. Yeah. in the without names. i will Yeah, without names. and Because it's helpful, it's helpful Mary, for our for our audience to know that, I mean, just like you started with cards, you started Slow It. I think when people look at a brand like yours, they see, as Lori said in the very beginning, books and, I mean, everything, wallpaper, rugs, you know i mean, everything. You've got so much happening and they think, oh, I could never do that. But you started with cards. Yeah.
00:12:25
Speaker
Right. And groups from there um took them, our pitiful little card line, think it was 12 over 16 cards, to the New York stationery show. Yes. Which knew nothing about. We didn't know you were supposed to, you know, deck out your booth. And we had a card table with the cards. Yeah.
00:12:50
Speaker
And the people next to us would not even speak to us. They were like humiliated that we were in there. my gosh. But we were getting a lot of attention. And the good thing was, um, uh, New York magazine came through and they really liked them and they took pictures and they featured it in their next issue. And it was really an amazing boost that we just got because they happened to be walking down that aisle.
00:13:17
Speaker
And that really, um, helped us. But in the meantime, it was just getting a lot of attention at that show. And we were approached by, um workman publishing,
00:13:28
Speaker
no who I'm actually doing a book with right now. Um, but, and, and we, they wanted to do, I don't, I think a calendar first.
00:13:43
Speaker
And they said, we want a license with you. And then, and we were like, we didn't know what licensing was. So we hurried up and looked that up, found out what it was, asked around. And then we were approached by several other people, including a couple of agents, licensing agents.
00:14:01
Speaker
And so we were just kind of thrown into it at that show, you know learning minute by minute as we were at that show and um got a couple of licenses.
00:14:14
Speaker
How about that? Yeah. This reminds me of our first trip to a, to a show similar. We had no idea what we were doing and we, we prototyped all these products with our art on it. And a lot of people, because we, the comps were so nice, people thought, oh, they've already licensed in all those categories. So, you know, we live and learn like,
00:14:40
Speaker
We didn't know what we were doing. Yeah. I thought you doing the right thing. well You just do it. And like so many funny stories about how we got our stuff delivered there. and Oh, yeah. You look back sometimes on the way you did things and you're like, oh, my God, that was hilarious. But it's live and learn.
00:14:59
Speaker
It really was hilarious. So about what time was this, Mary? Like, was this in the 80s? In the eighty s Yeah. So let's also help pre-internet, pre-everything. Yeah. owns pre- preing Yeah.
00:15:15
Speaker
There was, yeah, you were on your own. Yeah. Um, which worked out fine for us. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I can't imagine. my say Well, it is, it's so much easier now, know, and, um, everything's done on the internet and,
00:15:34
Speaker
er you can't do it the way I did it anymore. it's just not done like that anymore. Right. Licensing isn't the same. Companies aren't the same. The stores that buy it aren't the same. Totally different. You know, people ask for my advice, but I, I have no idea how you do that now, but it was very different then. Yeah.
00:15:56
Speaker
And, uh, it was just a great time to be in that business. Plus my cards were, um, pretty different than anything that was out there. Cards, uh,
00:16:10
Speaker
Before, like when I was little, um we're all animals, you know, puppies and kittens and our flowers. Yeah. And so then I came with these black backgrounds and funny sayings on the front.
00:16:24
Speaker
And so it just it got a lot of attention just because it was different. you know, so that was lucky. Where did your style, when, when did that Mary, Mary Englebright style start to evolve? And like, was it back then in the cards and then it kind of blossomed from there?
00:16:42
Speaker
i would say it started when I was, you know, being shown those antique children's books and I would copy them. And so you can, you can see it. I mean, i'm just,
00:16:55
Speaker
ripped off Johnny Gruul, who did the Agony and Nandy books, those little round flowers that I draw all the time. And um so, you know, I, um because that's how you learn when you're little, yeah you copy and, you know, and then you slowly develop your own style, you know, you'd rather have it look like this instead of that.
00:17:19
Speaker
What I love about all of your work um is your messaging and how it connects with people. And I also love your Mary Engle dark line because that messaging, mary well, you could talk about that, but it's a little snarky and funny and people can connect on that side as well.
00:17:42
Speaker
We were surprised how well that went um because it happened. Well, you know, fairly recently, ah before COVID, this is how I judge everything.
00:17:57
Speaker
the Yeah. BC. Yeah. Right. um And things had slowed down. mean, we're jumping ahead here, but, you know, in 2008, when the bottom fell out of the a financial situation for everybody,
00:18:16
Speaker
everything changed like overnight, everything changed and, um, everything kind of ground to a halt actually. Um, and we had always, uh, joked around in the studio about funny versions of these sweet cards that I was doing.
00:18:36
Speaker
Yeah. And we would always laugh about it and joke around. And I thought, you know, that would be kind of funny to illustrate some of those. And, um,
00:18:46
Speaker
you know, we'll just do them in black and white and call it Mary Engle Dark. um And we put them out thinking, we just didn't know what to think. we I did not think um people would accept them. Yeah.
00:19:04
Speaker
They just went through the roof. They were so popular. um We were shocked. But they're fun to do and they're easy to do and yeah they're faster to do um and there is no shortage of ideas or yeah no quotes so um yeah turned out to be you know and now we license um calendars and, so you know, shirts and all kinds of things with the ankle dark illustrations too.
00:19:40
Speaker
That's amazing. This episode of Rebloom is brought to you by Jet Creative, a women owned creative studio and longtime friends of our podcast.
00:19:51
Speaker
Jet Creative partners with brands and individuals to help clarify their story, strengthen their visual presence and communicate with intention. Their work is rooted in collaboration, care, and the belief that thoughtful creativity has the power to connect with people in meaningful ways.
00:20:09
Speaker
We are extremely grateful for their continued support of Rebloom and the conversations we care so deeply about. You can learn more about Jet Creative and their work by visiting the link in our show notes.
00:20:23
Speaker
Before we continue, we just want to share this. This May, we're gathering for the Live Courageously Rebloom Conference, a few intentional days to pause, connect, and re-bloom.
00:20:36
Speaker
If you are craving space to reflect and reconnect, we'd love to have you with us. Details are in the show notes. And now let's jump back into our conversation.
00:20:48
Speaker
have so many questions in so many areas. Yeah. I know. we're We're all like, I'm like, wait a minute, wait a minute. So let's, so let's, let's, let us take a quick step back to that 2008 timeframe that you alluded to. Cause it was, it was when the market crashed and everything changed. So, you know, we, you get going, the licensing's going, the brand is growing. Your, your Mary Englebright brand is strong and it's everywhere.
00:21:15
Speaker
um And then the market crashes and everything comes to ah to a halt. What happens to the brand at that point?
Business Adaptation Post-Crash
00:21:22
Speaker
Well, it was, um i mean, we kept going, but it was, um
00:21:30
Speaker
well, what happened was all those mom and pop stores closed and that was our biggest customer and they all closed. and um And we were also in the middle of the magazine and all those advertisers stopped advertising.
00:21:48
Speaker
Yeah. And without advertising, you can't put out a magazine. It's just too expensive. um So that happened. The stores closed.
00:22:01
Speaker
And we just really had to sit back. And it also used to be um when I first started out, ah manufacturers would license with you.
00:22:13
Speaker
So, They'd make their products with our designs on them, and then they would go out and sell to the stores. Well, that all stopped, and it was up to us to sell to the stores or to find somebody. They wouldn't license all of a sudden unless you had a store waiting for it.
00:22:36
Speaker
Nobody was going to do anything on speculation. So it totally reversed And, ah you know, we just had to kind of scramble a little bit and figure out how to do that.
00:22:47
Speaker
um Had to sell to bigger stores. I'm trying to think where we were. Well, you know, we were in Barnes and Noble and i think we did a program we and did a program once with Targa. We had a really nice program with Michaels for a long time. And so you kind of just had to refocus.
00:23:08
Speaker
And you were also making different products. You weren't making these cute little figurines anymore. Nobody was had money to spend on those. Right. And so the stores weren't buying them. um So we just kind of had to reverse everything and keep going.
00:23:24
Speaker
and and And diversify. I mean, that's the interesting thing. You've always had a very diverse brand. I mean, that's kind of the thing that I've always admired about your overall brand is that there's a little bit in different places, which does allow for that flexibility when things like then and even things like now happen. I mean, you can kind of pivot, but Lori has a question. What what was the timeframe for, did you have more than one retail store?
00:23:50
Speaker
We had 12. Whoa. all across the country in malls. It was another thing. Malls dropped into the thing. Nobody wanted to, nobody could afford to be in a mall. My gosh, it was so expensive, which was fine at the beginning.
00:24:09
Speaker
You know, we were, we were doing great, but um yeah, when that crash happened, the malls went under and it was also, there was another thing with it um was that It was such an intense, that was such an intense business, that retail thing.
Challenges of Retail Management
00:24:27
Speaker
um And you had to have whole different staff in every store and then a whole different staff here running all of those people. There was theft. um Not a lot, but I mean, things that we never had to deal with before.
00:24:44
Speaker
um Shoplifting and turning over of staff at these stores and we couldn't, you know, we weren't around to watch it like we were used to.
00:24:56
Speaker
So, um, we could kind of see the handwriting on the wall and we started closing the stores. Yeah. What, how big has your staff gotten to and where are you now?
00:25:08
Speaker
We just have six people now. Yeah. I you're pretty small, but, but how at your peak, eat how big was it? So many people is ridiculous. Um,
00:25:19
Speaker
It really was ridiculous. We didn't need them. um But I oh was just thinking about why that actually happened. But we won't go into that. But at the I would say at the Heights, we had over 40 employees. Wow.
00:25:39
Speaker
I mean, I'd walk in there and I wouldn't even know some of them. And I said, this has gotten way out of hand and we need to rein this in. You know, it's interesting when we have these conversations too, it's always, i always say, what's the view at the top of the mountain? Like, what do you want it to look like with some people who are who are just starting out? And I think sometimes, oh I want to be big and famous and da-da-da-da-da, but then you forget that the bigger you get, the more responsibilities you have and actually less the less creative you want. The farther away you get from the art.
00:26:13
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So you have to decide what you want, you know, and just, and hiring people to, if you want to get that big, or if you do get that big, um, you, you hire people to do all the things you don't want to do, which is an artist is like pretty much. And, um,
00:26:36
Speaker
and um So you have to decide, is that really how you want to run your business?
Refocusing on Core Drawings
00:26:42
Speaker
Which is fine if you do. It's great. And some people are really good at that. um But this had taken a turn into the a really kind of stupid levels. And it turns out that the guy working for us wanted to join an executives club.
00:27:03
Speaker
And to join that club, you had to have a certain number of employees. Ah, Yeah. so gotcha So they were gone. so connect their daughters there connect the dots Sold that big studio, which was beautiful. It was in an old church and it was so great, but we didn't need all that space anymore. So we, we just, um,
00:27:24
Speaker
brought everything back down to normal. So when you bring it all in and you, and you kind of hug it all in and you push away the stuff that no longer matters or does matter, but you've kind of edited, let's say, and you're pivoting to really the foundation parts of where you want to move forward. What, what did you see and what, what did you hold on to and move forward?
00:27:48
Speaker
Well, um, I wanted to concentrate just on the, uh, I'm taking this ring off. It's catching on the sweaters driving me insane. We decided, you know, we want to concentrate on what is the core of the company, which is the drawings.
00:28:06
Speaker
And um so it was pretty easy to, once you decided that, what to cut out, you what you didn't need anymore.
00:28:18
Speaker
um so um it it just It just became easier and easier as I saw what I wanted, which was ah more manageable company, you know, like it was at the beginning when I could watch everything and see everything that was going on and be on top of it.
00:28:40
Speaker
I can relate to this because I mean, I wasn't up to 40 people, but 12 and even 12, it's just, it's a whole different ball game managing people. And, you know, people, when they left, they're like, you didn't even say hi to me most days because I would come in and I just had so much work to do. And I had two little kids and you realize though, when you're managing a whole staff, you know, how do you make them feel valued? And,
00:29:10
Speaker
all the things that go with that. It's a lot. and Yeah, and it's, ah it is a lot and it sucks all your energy, I think, away from the art.
00:29:22
Speaker
Right. At least in my case. Well, yeah I'm saying, I mean, some people are gifted at that. They are. They handle it. I have an architect friend and we both started around the same time in his firms at like 72 people now.
00:29:37
Speaker
And I think of that and it makes me cringe. I know. I know what you mean. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot. It's a lot. So you pulled into the core of your company. Talk to us about what are some of those core things. Obviously the drawings and, and the magazine went away.
00:29:57
Speaker
Magazine sadly went away. that Yeah. Sadly for a lot of people.
Adapting Product Lines for Consumer Changes
00:30:02
Speaker
Yeah. I would say that's the thing I get asked about the most. Yeah. How are you going to bring that back? i i shared with I shared with Mary before we got on here the um copies that I've kept for, oh God, I probably have 10 of them or so that I've kept for years. I can't get rid of them. I just can't get rid of them. They were the the magazine you kept.
00:30:23
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. They still look relevant. but um So that was sad. That was the sad part to have to let that go. Yeah.
00:30:34
Speaker
But yeah, you get down to the drawings and then what are you going to put those on? The cards, we don't, we have cards now with a couple different companies, but um the thing is, you know, young people buy cards. I don't think my kids, either one of my kids has ever bought a greeting card in their lives. They just email people.
00:30:56
Speaker
yeah And so that's, that's a tough business now. That's very tough business now. Um, we're still in it, but it's not our main thing. Um, ah calendars are the same. Yeah.
00:31:12
Speaker
You know, people our age use calendars cause we like the pictures and, you know, we, that's what we're used to. And so it's still a huge business for us, but definitely nowhere near what it was. young people don't use those either.
00:31:28
Speaker
you know? Yeah. So I know your daughter, and does Will still work with you as well? Um, not as much. Okay. So Michaela's there working with you. Is that, is she bringing some young energy and yeah i know that you've shifted, you do a lot of your own products.
00:31:46
Speaker
Yes, we do. um yeah, actually that's why we hired Michaela. She, she was saying, um You know, every once a while she'd say, where you why are you doing this? You know, you could do it this way.
00:32:02
Speaker
Or why do you dress those kids in such old-fashioned clothes? Why don't you just dress up a little? yeah So she was coming up with all these things. And Nikki Ball, who runs my company, said, why don't we just hire her to do the social media and everything that we don't really, we weren't really staying on top of that.
00:32:24
Speaker
And when we did, it looked like, you know, in 1980 on social media. So, um, we did, we hired her and she's fantastic and has gotten us on into all these different, uh, versions of social media and does ads and things like that. And, um,
00:32:42
Speaker
So between the two of them, Nikki and Michaela, I got this hot modern business going. That's amazing. That's amazing. Yeah. Well, and it's funny because Lori just went to Atlanta to the market and I said, so what, what's hot now? And she goes, nostalgia.
00:33:01
Speaker
So now I know. Well, I think just because people are just longing for, i don't know, comfort, cozy, peace, all of those things. Definitely. And that is true.
00:33:16
Speaker
Although you have to be able to sell that in a modern way. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. But, but it is definitely true. Are you still licensing your work?
00:33:26
Speaker
he Yeah,
Collaborations with Smaller Companies
00:33:28
Speaker
we do. But you know, licensing is not the same either. um They can do anything they want on computers. They don't need to pay an artist. Right. You know, there's, it's very different now.
00:33:41
Speaker
um What we really do is collaborations. with different companies, which is fun, but they're shorts, you know? yeah And so you have to keep doing it, you know, keep finding people to do it.
00:33:56
Speaker
And we've had great success with all of them. and And also it's just a lot of fun working with other small companies like that. Yeah. I've seen some of them in your social media and they all look so much fun. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a, and that's a great, that's a great way to do it. I think, Not as lucrative as it used to be, though, you know, when you were in a deal and they would sell to stores all over the country and for years, you know, they'd keep it going. So it's a whole, everything is absolutely, totally different.
00:34:28
Speaker
yeah at the beginning. It's interesting how you started with the cards and you started local and small and you grew this brand, this massive brand. And it sounds like with everything, with obviously licensing, changing everything, you're sort of circling right back to these lovely small shops and, and working with these local companies. And it's not as small as it was obviously, but cause you've built this gorgeous brand, but it's interesting. It's, it seems more personal. It seems like could you've got the six employees and yeah.
00:35:02
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I definitely, it definitely is. There are pros and cons to each, but I really like just having the six of us and who knows, you know, we may have to expand that a little bit. Uh,
00:35:15
Speaker
depending on how things go. But everything is so uncertain now. Who knows what will be happening next year. so here's a question for you too about, uh, you know, obviously technology has changed. I'm going to, I'm going flip it. Sorry. Oh, I just knocked over a frame. Sorry about that. Um, technology has changed quite a lot.
00:35:34
Speaker
Um, obviously since the eighties and your art supplies, when you draw, do you draw, um, you know, with markers and, and pen and pencil, or do you do on the computer or how, how has that shifted for you over the years?
Balancing Traditional and Digital Art
00:35:47
Speaker
I don't know how to do that on the computer. Um, Now i my alright my little art staff of two, my art director and ah my other artists, they know how to do it. And so um it's kind of taken a ah burden off of me when you screw up a drawing. it used to be you'd have to almost start over you know to yeah fix it. Now you hand it to them and say, move her arm.
00:36:18
Speaker
um um um um So they use it, but I don't, I i draw the same way I've always drawn. I love that. Is, and do you draw every day?
00:36:29
Speaker
huh. I do. It's funny because I'm the same Mary. I don't do hardly. I mean, I do all my business stuff on the computer, but I do everything by hand, analog style. Yeah. then hand it over to somebody to do all the digital stuff. Yeah. To make it work.
00:36:48
Speaker
I was surprised because I said to, I said to Lori, I said something about Photoshop because I'm a photographer. So I do a ton in Photoshop and everything. She goes I don't know how to do that. i'm like, what do you mean you don't have it? I know. I know. I mean, i did, i did years ago dabble in it, but I thought that's going to eat. I like touching the paint and touching the clay and drawing. My son is is starting to ah draw on the computer and he's like, you got to do this. Actually, they bought that computer for me and I never touched it.
00:37:23
Speaker
And um he said, you got to try this again. It's so great. And he's showing me how he's doing it. And you know, you have to go pick out a color and then click and then figure out how to make that color lighter or darker and then drag it over the drawing. said, you know, I can pick up a pencil. yeah I can do this in about half the time, it seems like to me. but And also much more flowing way to draw.
00:37:50
Speaker
the way I love how my daughter uses Procreate though, because she, she does a lot of drawing first and then brings it in to Procreate and plays with it. And yeah it's funny, says and she gets used to, you get used to the double tap where you can like, like delete something. And yeah she was painting once like a painting, painting, and she double tapped the canvas because she was like so used to being able to do that.
00:38:21
Speaker
and then realized oh no oh no i can't do that doesn't work that way so she's so good i love her work oh i'll pass that on too she really is but yeah and it's fun to watch them and it's also fun to be able to hand them a drawing and have them alter it to fit on whatever product or you know change it somehow um Like we'll get requests from companies that they want, i' say, winter, kids doing winter things. but And so they'll take drawings, ah pieces from a lot of different drawings. But then they have to, and I have no idea what they do, they have to make them all look kind of of the same, but like the weight of the line and everything. And they can do that on the computer.
00:39:15
Speaker
Yeah. and make them all work together. So that's, oh, it's it's great. I just don't want to do it myself. Well, I know from experience when we worked with you, like we got the opportunity to take apart your work and pull elements out and make patterns. And you have so much to work with and in your imagery.
00:39:37
Speaker
That's really fun to watch when you did that and to watch anybody, my art staff, anybody, take all these different things from the drawings. yeah I think about that when I'm drawing, like if I'm drawing a ah dress on somebody, you know, I'm thinking, well, this border would make really cute stationary or right on a picture frame. You know, I'm thinking that way when I'm drawing and it's fun to just have somebody new come in with new eyes and look at it all and think,
00:40:08
Speaker
um of different ways to use it. Right. That's great. So what are some of the secrets to longevity since you've been doing this for a long time? Yeah.
Connecting Art with Emotions
00:40:20
Speaker
um You've got me. Let's keep doing it.
00:40:28
Speaker
um I don't know. I think, I guess a lot of my drawings, I think, they illustrate everyday things, you know, that happened to other people and it happened to everybody. And so when they look at the drawings, they kind of recognize that situation. I always think I draw situations more than I draw, you know, like,
00:40:53
Speaker
ah well, like Lori, you do all those cool birds and things like that. And I don't, I don't draw things like that necessarily. i just, I draw um situations, I think. So, People recognize themselves and they'll, we hear a lot that they'll buy one to send a friend.
00:41:13
Speaker
who it means something to, and then they keep one for themselves. So I think that's, that helps with the longevity thing. Yeah. I think your work just always touches the heart.
00:41:26
Speaker
And I think that is like, when I think of different brands, like willow tree is another one that's had longevity. And again, those are little statuary pieces that their situations or moments in time. Yeah. People want those to commemorate something in their lives. Yeah.
00:41:46
Speaker
You know, I would say too, Mary, um we had a private conversation earlier and a lot of times people will say to me, I don't have the words, but I think that what you do is you help people, you give people the words that they need. and Sometimes people really don't have the words to say, however they're feeling good or bad or snarky or however it may be, but they need someone to give them the language that that they can say, yep, that is how I feel. That's, and you're giving them, you're giving them something that they want to articulate. They maybe just don't know how to. And I very much believe in both the visual and the written word to kind of bring that all together. And it's just so meaningful for people. And that's just a gift.
00:42:32
Speaker
Yeah, I think, I think they do. Uh, that is very true of a lot of people. When we ah had cards, my cards were blank for years and years. Yeah. And, um,
00:42:43
Speaker
when we went with American greetings, I think they definitely want words on the inside. And um it kind of narrowed the situation, the sending situation down when they did that. I prefer them blank. And, um you know, some people would say, well, but then, you know, what do you say on the inside? You say love Susan.
00:43:08
Speaker
I mean, you just, you don't have to say anything. car will say it for you.
Commitment to Art Amid Market Changes
00:43:14
Speaker
Yeah. So, so when you went through that down period where, you know, the magazine went away, the stores went away.
00:43:24
Speaker
so the mom and pops weren't there. Did you ever come to a point where you're like, I'm done? No, no. And it's always driven by the the need to create the work.
00:43:38
Speaker
I mean, I was going draw no matter what. and um, So i just we just would find a way to sell those drawings somehow. You know, it was going to be different.
00:43:52
Speaker
Probably wasn't going to be as giant as it was during those little golden years. But yeah, yeah no, it never occurred to me to stop it Well, I think every industry has these shifts. You know, it's interesting. my My husband's in medicine and how it looks today is so different than it looked 30 years ago. My son is going into it and I'm like, it's going to look completely different 30 years from now. I mean, and that's just and every, i had a conversation I teach at the university.
00:44:21
Speaker
with the students yesterday and it's a personal branding class and we brought somebody in and coach and he was talking about NIL and we were talking about branding and all. I mean, and, and it was interesting. He's like, well, my players need more opportunity on their social to bring out their overall brand. Like they're not, and i you know, I'm sitting there in class going, okay, class, well, here's an opportunity for a job down the road. Like, you know, it's all changing so quickly. Everything is changing. Yeah.
00:44:49
Speaker
And yeah there's programs to learn how to be an influencer in yeah colleges. I know. Although I've heard that influencers are probably, that's another thing that's going to change. You know, I think that's not going to be, yeah,
00:45:05
Speaker
Maybe it will. I mean, who knows? Who knows what's going to happen? I think always thought, and I've done this, we've all done this for quite a bit, that that was a little bit of the Wild West. And I think that the days of just, here's an obnoxious amount of money for one post is going to change, where they're going look for that brand representative that really works, that connects with their brand and is authentic. Yeah. Because I think you see that. I always say that it's about know, like, and trust. And when you find a brand that you believe in and that you love, then you like, then you will lean into that. And I, I don't know. I just, yeah, I get emails all the time from these different influencer companies wanting me to pitch their products. And some of them I'm like, why would they ask me to do this? Right. Right. This makes no sense. So I rarely take them on and it has to really, really resonate with me before I'll do it.
00:46:04
Speaker
We've heard from a few and I want to say, no, I've done one or two and, and ah we've heard from them because i bought their product yeah before.
00:46:21
Speaker
And so they call and say, would you want to do something? Yeah. if it's art supplies, I'm all in. that Yeah. we I'd love to do that. Yeah. but um Yeah. That's a whole other way, new way of doing business. But you know, the art schools now, they teach a lot of that computer-based art. And I think companies that need an artist are looking for people who can work that way.
00:46:52
Speaker
Yeah. Nobody's looking for somebody who does what I do. Well, I know a couple companies that are really pushing for the people on staff to utilize AI in a bigger way. oh yeah.
00:47:05
Speaker
Which I i am. I don't know how I feel about it. there is a There are a couple of accounts on social media and now I can't think of their name. Zonder, I think is one Yeah, I know who it is. yeah Yeah. I mean, they just do these fantastic um things they're like dreams they're amazing but um why but is it the one that does the acrylic that like does the I don't know there's one that like they keep making things outside with like stones and different sand and then they pour resin over top of it have you seen that one I have seen that I know who you're talking about yeah that's these weird characters doing weird I love those too
00:47:49
Speaker
I've been dabbling in it. I was sharing with, with Lori and it's just changing so quickly because I can take my photos and I can turn my photos into a Dutch master in seconds.
00:48:02
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, and it's just unbelievable. I was scrolling through and I came across my drawing animated and I'm like, well, what does this come from? And I, you know, we contacted the, guy who was very, very nice. um And I said, you know, that is a copyrighted piece of art. Yeah. um And he said, oh, well, I do it for a lot of, you know, I do it with a lot of artists work and they seem to like it. I said, well, I like it. I think it's cute, but we haven't decided yet
00:48:41
Speaker
you know, how we're going to deal with AI. Yeah. And, um and would you like to pay me for it? Because this is how it works. yeah Yeah. What do you think you're doing? And so I'm not sure he, he was surprised.
00:48:55
Speaker
Yeah. Because he evidently has not run into any other, uh, pushback. And so when I was coming up, somebody did that. You'd, nail them.
00:49:06
Speaker
right yeah oh You'd call the lawyers and get your money. But now apparently they just kind of look at it as I have a friend who just she launched a line of these really fantastic birdhouses with these little birds going in and out and a couple companies took all of her photos from her social media, set up these little websites and are selling her, her selling her products. But I wonder like, are they just taking people's money then? And they never get a product because. Well, that's a good question because a lot of AI stuff.
00:49:47
Speaker
Yes. yeah And a lot, and a lot of that AI stuff, um I actually fell for that and ordered something I saw on Pinterest. um They had an order section and everything. I forget what it was.
00:50:00
Speaker
um Really cool looking. And I thought I was buying And of course you're not buying anything. There's nothing there to buy. Right. It's just a cool ai It's so scary to me. And I mean, I like some things about it as a tool, but you don't know what to believe anymore. Right. You don't know what's true.
00:50:20
Speaker
Yeah. Which is why I think it's interesting that nostalgia, or I'd even like to use the word authenticity, is where things are coming back to. Because I think people want to touch and feel and and hold on to things that they believe are good and
Celebrating 50 Years in Business
00:50:37
Speaker
true. And that's the work that both of you are creating, which is just...
00:50:41
Speaker
joyful and lovely and happy and all that we need it's wonderful both of you are amazing both i will say for us to do don't you think yeah right what's that the only way i'd want to it's fun for us to do yeah to make art that way i mean that's we get so much pleasure from doing it Yeah. And it's good therapy. It's good therapy and it's making our world a better place. And you guys are both putting just, ah Lori and I have talked about this threads of hope or threads of joy out in the world that we all need. We all desperately need it. And it's just beautiful art and
00:51:20
Speaker
And sometimes in its beautiful simplicity, that's what we need more than anything authentic and real and know that there are beautiful, real artists behind it too, which is incredible. Well, there's always a counter trend to everything. So there is everything's all about AI and the counter trend is real. So the Mary Englebright brand now, what is happening with that?
00:51:47
Speaker
Well, um, working on a, you know, some of the usual stuff, the calendars and everything and doing some new things, but we're also working towards, uh, in 2027 is my fiftieth anniversary of being in business. And wow so there's a lot of things we have going on for that.
00:52:10
Speaker
And that's cool. Yeah. So, uh, workman is going to do a book of my art and, um, Just a lot of different things that are happening that we'll let you all know about as they come up. but So that's kind of where our focus is right now.
00:52:29
Speaker
That's exciting. That's huge milestone. Will you be having a gathering or doing celebration? Yeah, we're going to have big party. Oh, fun. At Washington U, who is um has asked to put my things in their illustration archives. ah um And so there's just a lot, a lot of different things going on. It's going to be really fun. i think That's exciting. That's amazing. Is that where Linda taught?
00:52:58
Speaker
Yes. Yes. She taught illustration at Washington. Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. Well, so 2027 is a big year. Well, Mary, this has just been the most delightful conversation. What a journey you have had and what joy you have given to all of us along the year or this, these many years.
00:53:19
Speaker
Good. Thanks. I appreciate that. Oh, it's been fantastic. Well, thank you for joining us. Lori, did you want to say anything? I just, I just admire you so much and I wish I lived near you so we could have coffee regularly. All my friends, not all, but most of my artistic friends all live away. Yeah. So, um.
00:53:44
Speaker
I know. It'd be so fun to just get together and make stuff. You need to have a master retreat of all you artists to come together. and be and let's you yeah We have friends in common and in St. Louis, so I'll just come to you. It'd be amazing. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for joining us. and Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. Thank you. And to our guests, peace, love, and re-bloom.
00:54:09
Speaker
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00:54:19
Speaker
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