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From Capitol Hill to the Meditation Mat: How Matthew D. Lyons Rewrote His Life
283 Plays29 days ago
On this week’s episode of ReBloom, we welcomed yoga and meditation guide Matthew D. Lyons, whose path reminds us tha t purpose rarely arrives all at once. More often, it appears in quiet signals that we only understand in hindsight. After nearly twenty-six years in politics and government relations, Matthew realized that the career he had built no longer aligned with what brought him joy. Looking back, he reflects, “I see that I was laying breadcrumbs for my heart a long time ago.”
Those breadcrumbs eventually led him to leave his former profession and begin teaching yoga in Washington, D.C. What started with a single Bikram class opened the door to yin and restorative yoga, Yoga Nidrā, meditation, and sound healing — practices that helped him reconnect with what felt meaningful rather than merely impressive. Today, Matthew guides students toward presence, steadiness, and inner clarity. Through stillness-based practices, he invites others to pause, reassess, and follow what feels true. As he shared, “If it’s truly your calling, it will keep calling you.”
Matthew’s story is not just about changing careers. It is about listening deeply, honoring what is real, and allowing life to unfold at a pace that feels human. Growth does not require perfection, only a willingness to begin.
https://www.matthewdlyons.com/about
Big thank you to our sponsor: Jet Creative: A women-owned marketing firm committed to community and empowerment. Whether you’re launching a podcast or building a website, Jet Creative can help you get started. Visit JetCreative.com/Podcast to kickstart your journey!
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Transcript
Welcome to Rebloom
00:00:01
Speaker
Hey everyone, welcome to Rebloom, the podcast where we explore the power of change, rediscovery, and living with intention. That's right. We're your hosts, Lori and Jamie, two friends who really love a good story about transformation.
00:00:16
Speaker
In each podcast, we're going to chat with inspiring guests who've made bold pivots in their lives or careers. They've let go of what no longer serve them to embrace something more authentic, joyful, and true to who they really are.
Rediscovering Childhood Dreams
00:00:31
Speaker
And the best part, many of them reconnect with passions or dreams they discovered as kids. It's about finding the seeds planted long ago and letting them bloom again.
00:00:43
Speaker
So if you're ready for real conversations about reinvention, purpose, and following your creative heart, you're in the right place. Let's dive in and see what it takes to re-bloom.
Matthew Lyons' Career Shift
00:00:56
Speaker
This is an incredible conversation with Matthew Lyons, who listeners, um just everything that he shared about his journey from starting in a more traditional way to now really leaning into the breadcrumbs of his heart, which he'll talk about, is just so special. And it's just an enjoyable hour. And we're so thankful that you're here to listen to this conversation.
00:01:25
Speaker
Well, hello, Lori. How are you and happy fall? Hey, Jame. I just got back from a trip to Portugal. So I'm still like diving back into life, but I'm so excited about this conversation today.
00:01:39
Speaker
i am so excited. Okay. are just getting to the end of our second season. and Lori, can you believe this is 43rd interview? Yes. third interview Thinking back to when we started, Dave, when we were terrified of tech and we were so stiff, we had that script that we were like reading and I'm so proud of us.
00:02:04
Speaker
i i i just I know I'm proud of us for Reblooming. And the other thing that I'm really, really proud of us is that we've been able to connect with some incredible people and share their stories. And today is no exception.
00:02:19
Speaker
Yeah, it's been really, really lovely hearing people and tell their story about how they pivoted towards something that makes them more happy and joyful and heart centered.
00:02:30
Speaker
Exactly. And today we are welcoming Matthew Lyons, who I had the privilege to meet this summer. um we were We met um at Chautauqua Institution, and he was just a delight. and We had a wonderful couple hours, and he started to tell me his story of going from being an attorney in Washington, D.C., to becoming a yogi.
00:02:54
Speaker
And I thought, oh, my goodness, this is exactly who we want to have on our podcast, somebody who has taken these pivots not only from one career to another, but even within his newfound passion.
00:03:07
Speaker
So welcome, Matthew. How are you? ah Well, thank you so much for having me I'm doing very well, and I'm i'm honored to be ah guest on your show. So Jamie and Lori, thank you.
00:03:18
Speaker
Thank you. Thank you for joining us. Jamie just shared that you were at a silent retreat last week,
Insights from Silent Retreats
00:03:25
Speaker
was it? Right. So you mentioned coming back from Portugal, which is on my list. um I just came out of two back-to-back silent retreats at Spirit Rock out in California.
00:03:36
Speaker
So one was 10 days, the other was nine days. And then I left there to go right into what's called a heartwork journey workshop with the author of Mark Nepo. So the last 21 days I've been immersed in um silence and exploring matters of the heart.
00:03:53
Speaker
Wow. Wow. When you're doing something like that, or do you journal a lot? Like, I don't know what a silent retreat is like. I'd love to learn more. Yeah. So um each could be different, different locations. But where I attend and I probably also for the and tight Insight Meditation Society in Massachusetts,
00:04:15
Speaker
they really encourage you to stay present so really no journaling no books um you go through what's called a renunciation ceremony where you hand over your phone um and so it's really intended for you to be in the moment so their thought is and a lot of people process through journaling their thought is though you begin then the narration you start to go back into the storytelling so they ask you if you can wait until the retreat is over to begin your journaling on reflection.
00:04:46
Speaker
um And even note taking, they don't forbid it, but they discourage it because they want you to stay in the moment. Wow. And no talking, zero talking. No. um The only time you'll talk is um either when you're meeting with a teacher or they have Q&A during some of the talks where the teachers talk to you.
00:05:08
Speaker
um I chose to stay silent except during those meetings. I didn't yeah have questions during the like the nightly Dharma talks or the guided instructions in the morning.
00:05:19
Speaker
I just chose to stay in silence. When you emerge from an experience like that, how how do you feel? Yeah. They share there, and I experienced this after my first retreat, which was three years ago, that you, I'm a sensitive person anyway, but you're highly sensitive.
00:05:38
Speaker
yeah um you're you're you're You're really vulnerable because one, you've been in silence, and two, you've been exploring ways to kind of quiet that incessant talking of the mind.
00:05:49
Speaker
um So when you come back into a place where there's now just this cacophony of sound, And it's not just talking, it's just all the sound. The place where I attend is kind of tucked away in Marin County in the hills. And so it's the only thing you hear are geese and shoot coyote. oh Wow.
00:06:07
Speaker
And crows. I mean, it's it's quiet. No talking through through meals. um It's quiet. So you you are really sensitive to... Wow.
00:06:18
Speaker
And also just um how you then engage with people when you come back because yeah you some people are very curious to know how your experience was and others... um they The running joke is when you come out of it and someone asks you, how was your retreat? You say, good.
00:06:35
Speaker
And for most people, for probably 99% of the people, that's enough. Yeah. No, I think it's fascinating. And since I teach retreats, I always tell the people who attend, I'm like, there's going to be a re-entry period because, you know, we're living in total bliss. It's all about creativity. You're being pampered and taken care of. And just give yourself some grace when re-enter. Yeah.
00:07:04
Speaker
Exactly. And, you know, Laurie, on that, um my first retreat again, three years ago, 10 days, and I'd never done it before. So I'm the kind of person who, you know, i my friends, I just dive right into the deep end of the pool. I don't wade in to get gate to the temperature. I just jump in.
00:07:19
Speaker
um It was day nine where I'll use this analogy of know when you buy a new product, ah an appliance or in your cars or maybe an electronic, there's the plastic covering on it, right? The little film.
00:07:35
Speaker
And you know you have you have to get your fingernails just under the edge and you never can quite get it. That was me on day 10. where I felt like i was just getting I was just getting the film to start to peel back and I didn't want to leave. Yeah. Because I felt like there was more to explore.
00:07:52
Speaker
and then I also was confronted with my own fear of everything under that film was pristine. Mm. That it was it was unblemished and I didn't want it to be scarred up by the world. And so I had to deal with that.
00:08:07
Speaker
and so um Were you able this time to peel back that film maybe more initially? And so you could really explore the silence differently this time? ah That's a great question.
00:08:20
Speaker
I think because I did two back to back, the first one really set the conditions for me to have that film peeled back so that when I got to the second, I had, if this makes sense, like the momentum of stillness where am quiet. And I was, I think a lot of people, when they go into these silent retreats, they, when you're everything around you, the acceleration of everything that you're of your life's comes to really almost ah an immediate stop. You don't have outlets to kind of deal with that terms of physical exertion or other things. So it gets into your mind. So a lot of people experience night nightmares or just bad dreams or crazy dreams. And wow you know i don't want to use the word crazy because that's you know good but pejorative, but I had some crazy dreams. And so every every year I've had them, but
00:09:10
Speaker
from retreat one to retreat two, I had, i guess, at least emotionally or mentally sorted whatever it was out. So I was much more into the a flow, if you will, in the second retreat. And so I've, I've considered doing 30 days, but I'm, I'm not quite there yet, but we'll see.
00:09:29
Speaker
It sounds almost like a mental toxin release. Yeah. sir yeah And then you're, and then you become a little more hypersensitive with all your other senses because, you know, as you said, if it's quiet, then you're able to listen more. Yeah.
00:09:45
Speaker
You're able to see more. You're able to feel more. um i I'm so fascinated by it. I'm also, just don't think I could be quiet for more than five minutes. I could totally do it. You know that, Jamie. know. She's introvert, extrovert. Yeah. Yeah.
00:10:06
Speaker
Well, I'll say two things. One, it's not for everyone. So, you know, just like when people ask me about meditation, I say, well, there are different modalities. You may want to try different things. um But then the second thing is, Jamie, you'd be surprised.
00:10:19
Speaker
Yeah. There are a lot of people who say, oh my gosh, I could never sit silent for 10 days. And then, you know, after the first couple of days where maybe it's just the, ah you know, getting acclimated to that that pace, you Then you're like, oh, okay.
00:10:36
Speaker
You're good. Yeah. and And you get into the rhythm of a schedule and that's a nice thing too, because then you have kind of a known thing.
Matthew's Career Reflection
00:10:43
Speaker
And one of the teachers, this this retreat, he and I are so a kind of simpatico and and his name also is Matthew. And so maybe that drew me to him, but he talked about when he got there, he would look at the schedule and he'd write it all down and he'd study it and look at it.
00:11:00
Speaker
And that was me because i need I felt like I needed that structure in the absence of everything else. yeah everything else And so once you get into that rhythm, ah you know I took off my watch. I just go by the bells ringing. I know wow whenever they ring a bell, it's time to go the meditation hall or or go for a walk or whatever. But I love it. All right. Well, we thank you for sharing that journey with us. That's incredible. But let's kind of dial it back to your career as an attorney. Well, actually, I was reading you wanted to be an architect and then calculus.
00:11:34
Speaker
Calculus. Yeah. yeah who like You know, why calculus? Everybody. now But then you became an attorney and you went to D.C. And tell us a little bit about that career, Matthew.
00:11:45
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. um So when I was in undergrad and, you know, maybe this is the thing too. So architecture, um was always something I was interested in from a younger age and ah got into school for that. And you know the the calculus, physics, all of that.
00:12:04
Speaker
And i you know I kind of jokingly said to myself, well, I can read. So so yeah i um yeah I did not have a a good academic experience at Howard University. And so I went back to my hometown of Kalamazoo, Michigan and enrolled in community college just to make sure college was for me yeah and or maybe some other vocation.
00:12:25
Speaker
um And it's interesting. i don't want to kind of skip around, but it's interesting and when we get to the kind of the the change, how when I look back, I start to see that I was laying breadcrumbs for my heart a long time ago. Oh, my gosh, that happens in almost every conversation we have. Yeah. It's so interesting.
00:12:44
Speaker
And that is the sweetest way I've ever heard it. Laying breadcrumbs for your heart. I know. I got chills just – that's exactly what we do. That's exactly – okay. So. Yeah. So architecture changed over to literature. had – I've wanted to do so many things, right? So yeah um so when I was in undergrad, I i really got into this connection with a lot of my professors about literature and poetry and writing. and And then I fancied or had this... this ah
00:13:16
Speaker
beautiful idea that I was going to become a college professor and and have my ascot and my elbow patches and my smoke a pipe, but I'll keep one in my pocket. But um yeah, I just love the way, particularly as you got to the higher level courses where you had this engagement with with the professors. And so I ah had this romantic idea that that would ah but i do um But during undergrad, I had an internship in Washington, D.C.,
00:13:45
Speaker
um And when I was finishing up undergrad, I called the attorney who I was kind of placed under, hadn't realized that he had become staff director for this committee.
00:13:57
Speaker
And I just wanted his advice. I said, well, you know, I've i've been accepted to an accelerated master's PhD program, but I'm also thinking about law school. I'd love to get your thoughts.
00:14:08
Speaker
And he said, well, why don't you come work for me for a couple of years and sort it out? Ah. And so, you know, it was kind of like a... it's just an unexpected opening to to come to DC. But I think maybe the thing about DC is it's kind of like, what is that? The Godfather. I keep trying to get out, but they keep pulling me back in. DC doesn't let you go. But um so I came to to Washington in 1991, ended 91, 92 and started working. And I, you know, as it were, I applied and started law school in the evenings.
00:14:45
Speaker
um with the idea that I'd never really wanted to practice law in the traditional sense. I didn't have the idea that, um you know, I want to be a litigator or at some point I entertained idea of being a tax attorney. I'm such a nerd.
00:14:59
Speaker
Just getting into the code with like these Bible thin pages, you know? And so finished up, but all the while working in politics. Um,
00:15:11
Speaker
Uh, you know, had, know, my son was born halfway through and that was a traumatic experience, quite ah almost life, a life changing experience in terms of, uh, my former wife. And, and I mean, she was really kind of at death's door. My son was two months pre-me and he was in NICU. She was in ICU. you It was, oh dear there was just a lot, um,
00:15:33
Speaker
And you were young. You were very young, i would imagine. twenty was 20, 27 maybe or so. Oh, yeah. Wow. Yeah. So the there's that. And so yeah um so then yeah I think, you know, again, now I look back on it, I kept trying on different shoes, right? So I worked on Capitol Hill. Then I went down.
00:15:54
Speaker
but not K Street as they call it, but I worked for a policy firm and then went back to Capitol Hill, then became a lobbyist for three years for the biotech industry.
00:16:05
Speaker
And then eventually found my way to the Food and Drug Administration ah managing congressional affairs. But I was my title was a regulatory counsel because I do have a law degree. Never passed the bar. The bar and I are not friends.
00:16:21
Speaker
Oopsie. Yeah. So. um So, i you know, I. i know if it was a surrender. I just said, you know what, that's not for me. And so I said, okay, that's my path.
00:16:32
Speaker
And I grew up in a very kind of politically active, kind of politically aware family. um yeah And so it just made sense to be in politics. And so I kind of just did what oh what was there yeah and never thinking about like a lot of people, is this really for me? Even if somewhere back there in the in the space of your mind or heart, you're thinking,
00:16:57
Speaker
This isn't where I want to be. It's got to be something else. And, you know, obviously the FDA has had a lot of press recently and you haven't been with them for quite some time. But, you know, tell us how that corporate, you know, and that's one of the things. Well, tell us how the corporate world or the or the FDA or that legal world had you feeling because, you that's what we've heard from many of our guests who had that corporate life, that it was just so structured and they were longing for that other thing. So did you find it rigid? And i mean, what was it like for you working for the FDA?
00:17:36
Speaker
um That's a good question. As I mentioned around the retreat. um some part of me, and i'm I'm still sitting with how this works for me, is appreciating structure. yeah right so um that i never really realized how linear of a thinker I am. I thought I was this very right-brained creative artist. Maybe I should have stuck with calculus. But um but that's ah that's a great question because i think for a lot of times we don't know.
00:18:07
Speaker
um i've I've said that, um and not in egoic way, I was very good at my job. Yeah. um Because I had enough of a work ethic and um I cared enough to do it well, because that's how I was raised. You you you do your job well.
00:18:25
Speaker
Right. but To your question, I think somewhere in there, and I just didn't know what it was. I mean, it was photography for a while and it was, know, it was cooking and you know, I've cooked since I was a teenager, but, you know really more cooking. I got into wine. I thought I wanted to be a master of psalm IA just as a side, like, you know, fun thing to do.
00:18:46
Speaker
ah Because I watched that documentary psalm. So, you know, again, I'm this seeker. i'm I'm always interested. But what I think your question gets to is, It was pointing me to or it was indicating that either those jobs, kind of the the legal, regulatory, political, um affords me the the time yeah and resources to do matters of the heart or the matters of the heart became important.
00:19:15
Speaker
ah so important that i I needed to step away from those other things to clear room. Yeah. um And at some point, i and it's an interesting story, if you you know I could share how it kind of came about.
00:19:28
Speaker
Oh, please do. Yeah. So um i had kind of moved around and one of the blog pieces I wrote was I demoted myself, you know, so. Yeah. Which I, you know, I even thought that I'd like i'm like to think I a sense of humor. So.
00:19:42
Speaker
Yes. and And I can laugh at myself, which was, I took a job because I thought, okay, I'm getting up to an age where maybe I've got like one more reach or, or you're not doing enough.
00:19:55
Speaker
That was what it was. i was like, you're not, you're kind of just coasting. yeah So how about one more reach for something that really challenges you? yeah um And I moved into that position and within months, you and it wasn't,
00:20:10
Speaker
it yeah I mean, there was the challenge of managing a lot more people, but it was, and it wasn't the subject matter. It was just that it was the pressure of production and the, maybe some of the subject matter and the people around me. And it's just like, I'm so not type A and I was around all these type A people.
Decision to Leave the Job
00:20:27
Speaker
And so, um, you know, what I wrote in a blog piece was I realized at some point that I was climbing the rungs on someone else's ladder.
00:20:35
Speaker
So someone may say you, Jamie, Jamie, you've got this talent, Laurie, you've got this talent, you know, the sky's the limit, you know, shoot for the stars. And a lot of that's projection. I'm like, I appreciate that you see that in me, but that's yeah that's not my interest.
00:20:49
Speaker
and i And I eventually found the confidence to say, it's not because I don't have ambition. right It's just that I don't. I don't have a desire to chase that.
00:21:01
Speaker
And so I reached a point where I'd gone back to my previous job, still a manager, and then a promotion opened up within the office. My boss, who I was very, very close to and still am, was promoted to the next level. So that it was almost assumed I would move into this next role. Right.
00:21:19
Speaker
And so I talked to my wife about it and I just said, you know, I don't want to do that job. And in fact, I don't think I want to do this anymore. And so she, and you know, for, for those who might know, she's in television. So I, yeah for years I had been squirreling away money so that she would have a long runway if and anything she was working on was canceled or, you know just yeah reach its end.
00:21:46
Speaker
So she would not have to rush to to right take the next thing that she would have time to decide. And she said to me, well, i know you've been planning. Yeah. You know, and my, my thing is fine. So quit.
00:21:58
Speaker
Yeah. And I'm like, what? Wait. Right. yeah So in January of 2018, I walked into the office with my boss for my annual review. Yeah. And and know with a lump in my throat, I said, well, you know, one, I want to let you know, Susan, that I'm not going to be putting in for the promotion, the director job.
00:22:15
Speaker
Yeah. um ah And then two, I no longer can do this job. ah I'm outta here. Yeah, and there were tears. i mean, it was, you know, and and it didn't feel like emotional blackmail. It was an honest, like, you know, moment of, and I said, well, I know how their hiring is in the government. You know, I'll give you, instead of two weeks notice, I'll give you four months.
00:22:38
Speaker
So I said, I'm out of here in May. yeah And in May 2018, I, without reservation, you know, cut the cake and the court.
00:22:49
Speaker
And, you know, it's it's we've heard several times before too, and it's such a beautiful thing that, you know, most of us have to have our nine to five job. We have to have that job. And and you're right. It's not about not wanting to go on that next rung and really climb that corporate ladder.
00:23:07
Speaker
you do and you do work hard, but there's always, sometimes we hear, and many times we hear that there's that tug at the heart and you're just trying to balance that and allowing, but the thing is it's allowing it in to, and listening to that tug and just being able to kind of pivot.
00:23:23
Speaker
And, doing what you did, saving, kind of exploring that. And then when the opportunity arose, then you were able to say, hey, guess what? I'm going to go, i'm going to take this leap of faith right now.
00:23:36
Speaker
And that's, that's the big pivot. Amazing. And it's, you know, it's, it's really interesting because, um, I think there also has to be some resolve that even at 50 plus that you're not seeking ah approval from family, right? From parents, like what the hell are you doing?
00:23:57
Speaker
um You know, because like, for instance, I mentioned kind of that, that turmoil and, you know kind of emotional upheaval when, when my former wife was pregnant with my son.
00:24:09
Speaker
ah But before that, um, in just the nature of politics, I was working for a a democratic committee and the Republicans took over the house. And so in essence, I lost my job and I called my mother in Michigan and, you I just wanted a little, you know, back rub and a little love. And she's like, well, you know, you need to get another job. Your wife's pregnant. like Okay. Okay. Okay. Thanks mom. My mother passed in 97, but I'd like to think that, um,
00:24:37
Speaker
that conversation would be much different. go Well, yeah. And I think that, and to your point, I think that that's what we all find is that certainly in our twenties, thirties, early forties. Yeah. I mean, you, you know, we have to have adult responsibilities. Many of us have those responsibilities that we need to care for our families and,
00:24:56
Speaker
And then many, some of us are blessed. And, and the one thing that you said, which I loved because many of our guests have started part-time. They do, they, they, they see, I need to have this creativity in my life.
00:25:09
Speaker
Yes, I am analytical, but my right brain is still very active. And it's also interesting too. I bet that right brain came into your analytical side, even while you were working, like even though you were doing the analytical stuff, um,
00:25:24
Speaker
And that makes you a better
Journey into Yoga
00:25:25
Speaker
employee too, because I think we look at things, I don't know, that's my take on it, that we look at things a lot differently. But um it's just, it's it's when we get to that 40, 50, 60, 70, who knows what the magic age is.
00:25:41
Speaker
It's lovely when we are given that extra space to really pull in our passions and really lean into them as much as we can. And What a blessing that you've had um to have that opportunity. That's incredible.
00:25:56
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like yeah i've I've had a lot of support, but I mean, my wife Carla has been fantastic in terms of you know any of these kind of creative outlets. And she's you know very, very uber creative. And so you know i'm and so I'm inspired by her, ah but also her her adventurous spirit, you know, the any gra in Enneagram, she's a seven, I'm a nine.
00:26:21
Speaker
So I'm much more kind of hunkered down into the emotion, which you mentioned, you know, at work, I think it made me an effective manager because I was interested in, and people and kind of where they were coming from. um You know, but but, you know, it's that, that thing of ah trusting and, you know, you don't know. And so I was teaching, I,
00:26:42
Speaker
Even with yoga, i I just kind of stumbled into it. It was yeah really came about as a challenge. And then the teaching came about and I was just doing it not even as a side hustle. It was just something I felt drawn to.
00:26:58
Speaker
Let's take a quick minute and thank our amazing sponsors. Jet Creative is a women-owned marketing firm committed to community and empowerment since 2013. Are you ready to rebloom and build a website or start a podcast?
00:27:13
Speaker
Visit jetcreative.com backslash podcast to kickstart your journey. They will help you bloom in ways you never imagined. And bonus, our listeners get an exclusive discount when you mention Rebloom.
00:27:28
Speaker
And don't forget to subscribe to this podcast and follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Rebloom Podcast. Thanks to our sponsors and thanks to you for joining us today.
00:27:42
Speaker
Well, let's talk about that because you left law and you left your job and that was very corporate. And then you challenged yourself to take some yoga that you – I don't like hot yoga either. But you were like, I don't like hot yoga. but So that was that your first – Yeah. i I had never – mean, honestly, never taken a yoga class ever. And a friend of mine – and I feel like it was now – I question our friendship because – He knows, like, I grew up in Michigan. I'm a polar bear. i like
00:28:16
Speaker
I like cool and cold. Yes. And he says, let's go to this place. It's 90 minutes and it's 105 degrees and 40 plus percent humidity. And, you know I felt like that was like going to Hell's Attic. know, it was like, what are you talking about? Yeah. and You do live in D.C., though, which is kind of like that in summer. I just want to state that for the record.
00:28:37
Speaker
That's Hell's back patio. But that's what it's like. So, you know, I went in, but it was it was one of those things where I've, and I mean, this gets into whole other thing where I feel like I've had a lifetime of um starting but not completing things. And so that that's some of the like the self-work I've had to do. like I started in architecture, but then when something got hard, I left it. Or I went into the Marines and then you know I thought I'd help pay for school and then it got hard and then I left it. Well, I actually had a medical discharge, but nevertheless, I kind of played it up a little bit. you know So yeah I really said, you know what?
00:29:16
Speaker
do something hard. You know, very Glennon Doyle, but you know, it's like, you know, so I that even in that first class, I'm like, let me just hang in here. I thought I was going to pass out like five times. But so then i said, well, I got to go back.
00:29:30
Speaker
And then next thing I know, I was doing it six days a week for three years. and Wow. Until I you know started have all kinds of skin problems. And I was like, maybe flow would be better for me Yeah.
00:29:43
Speaker
Maybe a little yin. Yeah, let me slow this down. but So you've turned off the the the the job part, but what turned on for you with yoga? What what was the thing that actually kind of opened up your heart?
00:29:57
Speaker
It was the breadcrumb that you said. I love that. Well, you know what? I think I started to realize... some things that, for instance, when i finished my certification program, or as I was going through it,
00:30:11
Speaker
you know I was resolute at that time because I said, I have a job, so i'm not relying on this yoga teaching to become my primary income source. So i have I'm empowered to make decisions for myself. I do not want to teach vinyasa flow.
00:30:24
Speaker
Nothing wrong with it. It just wasn't drawn to me. i was simultaneously taking a yin yoga teacher training at the same time. And I said, I'm drawn to the subtle practice, the quiet practice.
00:30:35
Speaker
And I was really kind of, ah it real it realized, it came to realization for me when I went to a yoga nidra meditation class, which I now teach.
00:30:46
Speaker
And I saw the transformation of people's energy and spirit from when they walked in to when they walked out. And I said, that's... That's what I want to do. That's the gift that I want to offer people, which is relaxation, de-stress, um not realizing how much I needed it for myself.
00:31:04
Speaker
Yeah. i'm I'm just that. And i'm I'm working through that, which is ah even through these meditation retreats and meditation. Thinking about not how do I pull back all the lessons there to give to someone else?
00:31:17
Speaker
How do I keep enriching my own experience? Because I'm by default the nurturer of other people, but not my own heart. And so that's been that's been the work. So so the the yoga experience was really...
00:31:32
Speaker
ah And the this gets into some other issues that yeah I guess I'll play out. So I started taking all these different trainings and you know I had someone, even in my first training, I was getting all these extra books and I'm just like, again, I'm a nerd. And one of the trainers was like, you sure love to read. a lawyer. But the funny thing is through law school, it was like, ah you know it was just, it was a struggle. you know yeah Because I'm like, oh God.
00:32:02
Speaker
yeah But again, I had an ethic, so I would do it because I wanted to. Now I read the things that call to my head and heart in a way of of how do we live as like spirits in the world? like how do we How do we support each other? And and the the each other, ah have to keep reminding myself, includes me.
00:32:20
Speaker
um And so that's so at some point I had one of my beloved teachers asked me to stop taking trainings. She said, because everything right now is coming from your head and you don't realize the huge capacity that you have in your heart.
00:32:38
Speaker
And I want you to teach from there. No more scripts, no more, no more designing class notes and all that. She's like, go in there and teach because you know it. She said, you have things I haven't, I couldn't teach you.
00:32:51
Speaker
And so, and I've had several of my my beloved teachers who have trained me tell me that. And again, in a non-egoic way, it's like, well, if people have been doing this for 20, 30 years, say to you, oh, you you've got this juice, you know, you've got this thing that I can't teach you. Right. And then, you know, and when you hear it, you're like, oh, you I pay to be here. Sure, you say that.
00:33:14
Speaker
But I'm starting to live into it that, you know, if I was given a gift, you know,
Art and Yoga as Self-Expression
00:33:22
Speaker
I have to realize that that gift, um first, we have to kind of cultivate it for ourselves, right, to to feel it.
00:33:30
Speaker
But I also feel like we're all given gifts not to just hoard. They're meant be shared. And so I'm trying to find that balance because my, again, my inclination is to give away everything and then I've got nothing left.
00:33:41
Speaker
I want to go back. I had a tech issue, so I was missing MIA there for few years. But um something you just said about not finishing things when they got hard.
00:33:53
Speaker
I don't think that's a bad thing. um Honestly, I think that a lot of our guests came to that point where It was either hard mentally or physically or stress levels were too high.
00:34:09
Speaker
And that is the moment where they chose to make a decision to move on to whatever the next breadcrumb is, because i see that that's what's happened in your life. you're You've been maybe not staying with something, but for a good reason, because you're heading towards something that fits.
00:34:28
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. You're going to be having me looking for the tissues because, yeah because, you know, Laurie, I'm so glad you said that because, know, I always get these little nuggets. I'm like, maybe I should write about that, which is yeah sure. Maybe it was challenging, but maybe wasn't so much that it was hard, but it wasn't for me. It wasn't i needed to I needed to kind of run into that wall a few times yeah to recognize.
00:34:51
Speaker
One, it's a it's a wall, but there's a door somewhere. So maybe I need to move laterally as opposed to just keep slamming into it and say, well, you know at some point i'll I'll get this as opposed to the getting is this isn't for me. Right.
00:35:07
Speaker
Right. And, you know, sometimes there's and there's a natural end, as Laurie said, and sometimes whether it's, you know, self-imposed or however from an outside entity. But to her point, I do think sometimes there's there's a season. There's, you know, a beginning, a middle and an end.
00:35:23
Speaker
And sometimes we think that because we took control to end it, that we failed. And I don't think so. I just think that maybe deep down you knew it wasn't right to what she said. And, know,
00:35:36
Speaker
You know, I also love that your teachers said to you, stop, you've got enough information. I was thinking, Laurie, and I don't know but if you can kind of relate this to art, but in art school, you're all taught the same things.
00:35:51
Speaker
I mean, right you know, you're all taught how to draw a circle and a line and a square and many, many other things. But really what... they're trying to pull out of you is your heart and soul. And I think that seems to me what maybe your yoga teachers are trying to say to you. Yes, you you know it. You know how to do went up dog and a, you know, you know, you know how to do all of those things, but they really wanted to hear your heart and soul.
00:36:15
Speaker
And is that kind of what happens in our marriage? Oh, absolutely. And that's actually the way that I like to teach. And yeah, You know, I just had an experience where one of the attendees wanted something more prescriptive and step by step, which I kind of stay away from that because I like to share Not all of what I do, but some of the techniques. And then I love watching them do it their way. Yeah. and their style, their colors, the the item or the themes that light them up.
00:36:50
Speaker
So, yeah, i I love that you have enough information to start, but then at some point it does switch to, okay this is in my heart and I can just do this. And that's challenging sometimes with teaching because my daughter and I taught together and it, beat when it's an intuitive to you how you create or how you do teach yoga, it's sometimes harder to go back to the step-by-step part because it's so ingrained in what you do. You're like, Oh, I don't even know how I do this. I just do it.
00:37:26
Speaker
Yeah. Well, know, two examples come to mind was, you know, going back to architecture and and I come from a high school, public high school in Michigan, Kalamazoo, Michigan, which, you it's public high school, but we had nice nice equipment and the drafting department and things like that. So when I went to college and it was back to like a T-square and a wooden draft table, i'm like, what is this? Yeah. And you're like, you know, I'm waiting for like, you know, the the next whiz bag thing. And they said, well, if you know how to draw on this, yeah you can draw on anything. And so, yeah and the other thing was, and and my good friend Jackson, I kind of say he's kind of like brother from another mother. We met in training and restorative yoga training,
00:38:04
Speaker
ah uh seven eight years ago and we're we're still very very close and talk all the time and and i don't know where he had gotten it from but he talked about the three eyes like the letter i so like when you move through anything he said when you first learn it you imitate right so you you almost and i'm very good at mimicry you know with languages and accents and things like that so i was very good at mimicking imitating my teachers Even like a the author that I do, that I attend workshops with and thinks, Mark Nepo, I was reading one of his poems at a session and someone turned to me said oh my God, you sound just like Mark Nepo. oh I didn't take that as a compliment. I didn't.
00:38:47
Speaker
yeah But I'm sure he did. But um so then the second I is integrate. So this is kind of get to what you're talking about, Laurie, where it
Self-Love and Relationships
00:38:54
Speaker
says we have the foundation of what we've been taught, but we start to integrate it into kind of the sense of who we are.
00:39:01
Speaker
And for a lot of us, we don't really know, but that's the exploration. And then the third I is innovate, because once you have all that, then you teach it in a way that it's almost... new.
00:39:13
Speaker
you know it's like it's It's building on the principles and foundation of all the learning. we we we we We pay homage to that. we We never try to take credit for, like you know there's an attribution I offer it, but ah when I've had a teacher come to my class who I respect highly, and she trains people in yin yoga, and she comes up to me after the class and says, you know where did you learn that language?
00:39:39
Speaker
the The language you use is so, it's gentle and it's it's it's like trauma informed, it's it's heartfelt. and like It just came out of me. i don't i know no one There's no scripts I'm working from here. And so that, you know getting to what both of you are saying, I think it's what I've started to realize is that Yes, I need the foundations of the principles. How do I guide someone through a restorative yoga class, a yoga nidra class, a sound bath, a sound healing?
00:40:07
Speaker
um You need the techniques, but I'm starting to really fully live into... presenting my heart there and connecting with yours so that I can come in and say, Lori, I sense you know this, or if you tell me this, or I just feel the energy of the room that there's a lot of you know really high, strong, young energy. I'm like, oh, we're we're staying close to the ground on this one. So yeah I try to teach them that way. and And no one taught me that. I just feel my way through it. Yeah.
00:40:37
Speaker
Well, I can sense that just from talking to you in this yeah conversation, like I so want to come to your classes now. i know. I know. And, you know, and I, I, I i feel calmer. i feel i felt a sense of calmness even this summer when I met you. I'm like, okay, I can, because I, I tend to operate at a pretty, you know, too much caffeinated level, I think. So But sometimes it's good to just breathe. And i i love that you're leaning into your heart and soul. And i will sort of relate back to my own work when i take I take photographs of flowers. And lots of people take photographs of flowers.
00:41:19
Speaker
But when someone says to me, i knew that was your picture, even before I saw your name, then that tells me that it came from my heart and soul, that I, that I'm creating something that I love. I'm not doing it for anyone else.
00:41:35
Speaker
I'm doing it for myself. I'm doing it for my own joy and that's coming through. and I think when we can let part of our heart and soul, our organic heart and soul,
00:41:50
Speaker
come out through our teaching then in our and our work and our creativity, that's the best gift to others and also to ourselves. That's beautiful. and you know um and I keep saying Carla, for those who don't Carla is my wife. um we should say Can we say Carla Hall? can we say Carla Hall, who's a chef, who's a huge personality. like Your personalities are very...
00:42:14
Speaker
Well, my my personality with my husband is very yin and yang, but you know she's a big personality. Yeah, yeah. yeah and and And I've come to – it's my own work again, you know these sitting in these meditations, which is to think about things that might tug at you a little bit.
00:42:30
Speaker
and realize that that's that's more of a me problem. That's not a you problem, right? So if you're big and expressive and you're just like, okay, everywhere, um she she needs to be her, right? And so the best thing I could do from the heart is to to honor that, to to allow it to flourish.
00:42:48
Speaker
There was something I saw a long time ago that says, you know, when you When you really love someone, you know to truly love someone is to want to see them change or to see them bloom, re-bloom, to move through life.
00:43:00
Speaker
um Because that's the beauty of it. You get to watch it. and you And even if you change and we're in relationship, that doesn't mean that our connection changes, that that the the core, the essential thread of love between us changes. It means that that love changes.
00:43:17
Speaker
provides the the the runway for you to to to explore and expand. And and i and Carla has provided that for me. And the reason I mentioned her was because i i know I had to say this clearly because it sounds a little weird.
00:43:30
Speaker
um In photography, i you know we've talked about this a bit on the boat. like I love to shoot objects and I usually don't shoot people. And so I have to say, i don't shoot people.
00:43:42
Speaker
But Carla says, you know, when you take a picture of someone, you can tell that you really love them or that you loved you loved what you saw because it comes through much like you were saying, like you and not to someone recognized that, but she says, when she looks at the way I photograph her, she says, I know you love me.
00:44:03
Speaker
Oh, that's the nicest compliment. Oh gosh. And I think that that's, That's, you know, there's there's something there to this notion of Rebloom that yeah um this idea of loving ourselves and and not seeing it as some kind of narcissistic, egoic know thing that it's, and in fact, it puts you, I think, in a better position to be a partner in a relationship, whether it's, you know, a partner or it's a parent-child relationship or us as a child to our parents, you know.
00:44:40
Speaker
Yeah. Well, they always say you have to love yourself to be able to love others in the best way. And I do think that's true. Like when, you know, when you're really taking care of your heart and soul, you, you can, you have a hundred percent to give to others.
00:44:57
Speaker
Yeah. And Laurie, that's, you know, and I talked about mimicry. um
00:45:05
Speaker
Again, where are my tissues? Because I've gone into the space of imagining that if I have provided to me this much kind of nurturing and care to others with really kind of a ah less than half full cup of love for myself, I i go into the space of imagine how much more i could be in terms of a loving presence for you if I more fully love myself. And that's something I i continue to work through.
00:45:36
Speaker
um And that was something I sat with on this retreat. And, you know, ah like three
Overcoming Imposter Syndrome
00:45:41
Speaker
different teachers were like, you really need to do some loving self, some meta, some loving kindness practices, because they all recognize that I was struggling with this.
00:45:53
Speaker
and And so then i started to get into like this imposter syndrome, like, Laurie, I show up for you, but am I am i doing it because... it's, well, part of it's just there, right? But am I doing it in a performative way? If not just flashy, but because I feel like there's a sense of obligation. This is how I was raised. You know it's not about you. It's about other people.
00:46:15
Speaker
um You know, like there was an example where we were going through the airport and I held this door open for someone and, and they didn't say anything. And under my breath, I was like, you're welcome. yeah and And Carla immediately turned to me and she said, well, did you open it for her or for you?
00:46:30
Speaker
wow.
00:46:32
Speaker
And so, know, and that stuck with me. This years ago. I mean, we'd been married 19 years. That probably, you know, 12, 15 years ago. But it stuck with me because it is that thing of,
00:46:44
Speaker
ah And it gets into our passions. Like, are we exploring this? Because we were were always told, this is what you're good at. ah This is what you're expected to do. a lot of us, even into our you know well into our life of 50, 60 plus, are still have the voice of our parents or our expectation of our community.
00:47:00
Speaker
um Some of it's around religion. Some it's around or employment, our careers, our vocation. And it was what Palmer Parker beautiful poet talks about self-care is not a selfish act.
00:47:15
Speaker
It's not. And you know, the thing that I keep, i I was sort of reflecting on your words as you were saying them. And I thought, you know, it comes down to ego too. It's so much easier to say to someone, I love you.
00:47:27
Speaker
and everybody goes, aren't you nice? If you said, i love myself. I love me. People go, oh, okay. You're full of yourself. You're full of yourself and you're really not.
00:47:38
Speaker
And I think it's it's saying, i love you. i love me. i i love, and and it's believing that in your heart, then you can love others. As you said, you can see them through your lens. You can you can paint them. You can create, you can give as a teacher.
00:47:56
Speaker
Because I do think, and I think we have to get out of our own head that saying, I love me is bad. It's not bad. It's a beautiful thing. So someone that I think lives this in a really wonderful way, you've met um Jamie is Britta Tabor. Yeah.
00:48:12
Speaker
So Britta was a speaker at our Rebloom conference last year and will be again next May. And What i take from her is she was raised in environment to completely love herself in every way.
00:48:27
Speaker
she had parents that just really nourished that in her. And because of that, yeah, you see how much she loves herself and you want that, but she also loves other people so much.
00:48:42
Speaker
Yeah. So she gives so much to herself in love, but she, because of that, I think she's able to love other people just as much. Yeah. That's beautiful. You know, I, you know, I think about that even when I left my job at FDA, yeah even when i you know, went through the tough decision about the divorce, know, previously,
00:49:02
Speaker
um Somewhere in my head, I said, I want to model this for my son, um know to to to live into what you need. um ah to to follow your heart, to to recognize that if you're in a situation where you're not your best self, you owe it to yourself.
00:49:21
Speaker
You know, there's someone who says, oh, I love you. And then someone says, oh, I love me more. And like, no, I don't know about that. But it was the kind of thing where I had to love me enough to say that's not, this is not sustainable.
00:49:37
Speaker
Right. That, that, that, that exploration of what's life-giving and what's life-draining. and And I said, I can't show up for you as the best parent. And I don't want you to be in a and a family where there's this you know constant loggerhead between your parents if we are better in two different places, even if that emotionally was very...
00:49:59
Speaker
Right. right um you know first of all i have to i said you know it's the the mask i had to put my mask on first and so i think a lot of times our inclination is to to mask everyone else up and and i you know i've been working over the last number of years to remove all these masks of, of mimicry and, and, and shape-shifting and chameleon-like behavior and talking one way and one thing. And, and, you know, just in this workshop with Mark Depot and he said, you know, be who you are everywhere.
00:50:33
Speaker
Yeah. And that really stuck with me because you think about how often we show up in different environments and we're different people. Yeah. Um, yeah and I try to just let my essence just come through. And you know if it's not for me, I'll show up and be there. But I also recognize, the yeah, this isn't it.
00:50:51
Speaker
It's the most important thing. And um for our listeners and many of them know we lost our daughter. um a little over two years ago to mental illness. And one of the things that she taught me was to live authentically. There's nobody that lived a more authentic life than my suite my sweet girl.
00:51:07
Speaker
um And we've we've learned to not only do that because of her, but we've also learned to do that in this whole grief process too, is that you know you learn what's real, you learn what's true. And and When people reach out to you in the most pure, authentic way, you
Patience and Letting Life Unfold
00:51:25
Speaker
you you know it's coming from their heart. It's not just performative. it's not and And I think that has been seeing that truth of others has been able has been a gift to us because it's and it's allowed me, as as you said, to sort of...
00:51:40
Speaker
share my truth and just let down, take those masks off and just say, look, it's not about trying to be somebody or just, it's about being real and, and being honest. And yeah.
00:51:53
Speaker
Yeah. and And I think, you know, I mean, at our age, i would say microwave, maybe it's now it's, you know, we live in a chat GPT world where yeah everything is, thank god everything is, everything is immediate. It's nanoseconds, right? yeah You ask a question within milliseconds, you have an answer. that, that,
00:52:09
Speaker
that that unfortunately engenders this position of being impatient. yes And so I think that what we what I've had to come realize, and there's a there's a book by Emily Maroshan called 30.
00:52:23
Speaker
And in there, see in one of her pithy chapters, she said, the only thing that changes your life in a day is trauma or a miracle. everything else Everything else takes time. yeah And so I've tried to live into that to, to give myself time for things to unfold yeah and trust that things are unfolding as they should.
00:52:42
Speaker
yeah But I, but I was probably guilty of ah doing a lot of folding. So I was treating myself very kind of origami into that.
00:52:53
Speaker
Oh, you know, i'm I, you know, I'm an attorney and I do this and I'm good at it and I keep getting promotions and, you know, good, good reviews. And so this must be what I meant to do. And, know Every part of me, you
Embracing Change and Gratitude
00:53:05
Speaker
know when you sit in the car at the end of the day and it takes you 15 minutes before you drive out of the parking lot because short of you know opening in a flask, and you're like, oh my God, you know this is this is exhausting.
00:53:17
Speaker
Yeah. Well, you've said it before, Jamie, on one of the other conversations is just because you're good at something doesn't necessarily mean that's what you should be doing. Right.
00:53:29
Speaker
Because you can good at a lot of different things, but I think... When you start feeling it in your body through, you know, so people, i know a lot of people who aren't loving what they're doing. they get sick a lot.
00:53:42
Speaker
yeah I remember in my 30s when i was, you know, very stressed. I was sick all the time. yeah and now very rarely. so you know, because I'm doing what I love. And I think there is a correlation. Your mind, your body, your spirit all longs for those things that call you in your heart.
00:54:03
Speaker
that's ah That's a beautiful um sentiment, Laurie. And there's a, I don't use Twitter anymore. I think the account is still there, but I don't use it. And the little header I had was, if it's your calling, it will keep calling you. And so, um you know, this idea that um yeah And sometimes you do have to try it on.
00:54:21
Speaker
yeah and and And a lot of times, even just fear keeps us from trying it on. That's why, i again, I go back to Carla. she is you know i mean that She's like this living example of all the things that I lived in fear of. you know So she, in essence, is this mirror to me. know and ah to to And when I say model things for my son, I mean, I think in lot of ways, without and without this intention, she models this mirror.
00:54:48
Speaker
the spirit of just try it. Just say, yeah, just go, just do it. I just saw a post. I don't know if it was on yours or her social media. And I think you were skipping or something. And the, the comment was all the things I get Matthew to do. i was whistling and there was some walk But it was the whistling. Yeah. Right. It was hilarious. And that's, you know, I think, you know, what generates and continues to like this self-generation or regeneration ah energy platform for our relationship is laughter. Yeah. Yeah. yeah You know, we, and we, we, in in good spirit, you know, we can laugh at each other. Yeah. We end up laughing at each other, you know our own, our own stuff. But, you know, and sometimes, you know she calls me her little tenderoni. I mean, I'm a cancer. I get a little sensitive sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, mom what do you mean?
00:55:43
Speaker
What do you mean? But you know, I think the thing that you shared in the very beginning of this conversation, and it's just going to stick with me for so long, and it's what I hope our listeners will do, is the breadcrumbs, don't look at the breadcrumbs behind you, look at the breadcrumbs in front of you, and just open your heart and your eyes to the breadcrumbs that are in front of you, and just take them. and but Because if you're open to them, it's going to lead you in the direction you're supposed to go,
00:56:10
Speaker
And it's going to allow you to to shut down some of the things that, you know, gently. It doesn't have to be a whole loaf of bread. it just Yeah. and But I think it's also important to, you know, I'm going to sound like a Mark Nepo acolyte here. But one of his poems talks about when it's you who is doing the stepping, it's hard to see the steps, but look where you are, which requires you to stop.
00:56:34
Speaker
yeah And and to to to enjoy the view. Because a lot of times we're, and you know, what's the thing too? And I think there's this balance, Jamie, between, you know, what is it? It's okay to look at your past, just don't stare at it. But it's also, let's not get so focused on so far down the road right um that we don't see that the next step is important, that I need to look at where I'm placing my next foot. Yeah. I love that. when Someone told me once that think of life as somewhat like your car. Look at your past in the rearview mirror. You can still see it.
00:57:10
Speaker
It's there, but look forward. Look forward to through the dashboard, or through your dash window, which is big and bright and beautiful, and enjoy the ride from that perspective. So it's always a part of you. Yeah.
00:57:22
Speaker
i just I just always marvel, Jamie, at how you summarize so beautifully. You're so good at it. This has been the most incredible conversation. I don't want it to end. they don't want it to end. And I hope that you'll come back to Chautauqua and maybe you'll do some. Oh, for sure.
00:57:40
Speaker
Yoga and we can, and Lori, Lori actually came last summer for the first time. Yeah. Oh my gosh. It's magical. Yeah. Yeah. She may go back to teach. so Yeah. She may come back to teach. So we'll have to kind of coordinate all of that.
00:57:54
Speaker
Thank you for sharing your time with us and your story. And it's just incredible. Do you have any advice that is that you kind of, I don't know, reflect on personally, or you like to give to some of your students? This whole chat was full of that. I actually have quote. You said the other one, right? So many nuggets.
00:58:13
Speaker
I love the triple I. that I love that. yeah That is amazing. yeah i mean, I think it's um you know it's it's it's just building on what we've talked about, which it's still a journey for me, which is to...
00:58:27
Speaker
um to sit and kind of take inventory of what, what feels right. Right. What, um, ah you know, are you, it's not about just being happy, um, but this sense of joy and it's a way of where I can feel joy for you, but then also for myself. And, um,
00:58:48
Speaker
And in in it's okay. I wrote this thing about, you know, I've tried on so many hats only to realize that I don't really like hats. but But I had to try them on to realize that. So I think, you know, the advice is try it on. Try it on Try it out. um You know, if it's if it's if it seems interesting, you you you watched, you know, the great pottery throw down and you're like, I want to get on the wheel, ah give it a try. And maybe after a few throws, you're like, yeah, I don't know about this. Yeah. ah You know, so give it a try and and and be okay to to close the book that's not interesting to you and go on to the next one. and love it I love it. I love it.
00:59:24
Speaker
Perfectly said. That's great. Matthew, thank you so much for joining us today. Oh, thank you for having me. This has been great. And I'd love to be in conversation with you. And, you know, like you, I'm going to be continuing to think about these things well days to come. Our listeners are just in for a great treat. So thank you, everyone. And peace, love, and re-bloom.
00:59:46
Speaker
Life is too short not to follow your passions. So go out there and let your heart plant you where you are meant to be and grow your joy. We will be right here sharing more incredible stories of reinvention with you.
01:00:00
Speaker
Make sure to subscribe to our podcast so you never miss an episode of Rebloom. Until next time, I'm Jamie Jameson. And I'm Lori Siebert. Peace, love, and Rebloom, dear friends.