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From Piano Keys to Pastry Bags with Navah Frost
301 Plays11 days ago
Navah Perlman Frost’s journey from renowned concert pianist to a brilliant baker and cake artist is a story of passion, resilience, and creativity. Navah built an impressive career performing on some of the world’s most prestigious stages. Her deep connection to music took her across the globe, where she also developed a love for local cuisines and bakeries.
When the pandemic put concerts on hold, Navah embraced a new form of artistry—baking. A self-taught baker, she turned her love of food into Frosted by Navah, a thriving cake business in New York City. What began as a creative escape soon became a sensation, with her botanical buttercream cakes and cupcakes captivating food lovers everywhere.
Tune in to the ReBloom Podcast to hear how Navah transformed her artistry from music to baking, proving that creativity knows no limits. Listen now!
Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/frostedbynavah/
Cake Order Form: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScBef58N-gXakHMreCJwoH796LPHaHpaL4eUtiyHcA6qFXWkg/viewform
Thank You to Our Sponsors: Jet Creative and UrbanStems!
· Jet Creative: A women-owned marketing firm committed to community and empowerment. Whether you’re launching a podcast or building a website, Jet Creative can help you get started. Visit JetCreative.com/Podcast to kickstart your journey!
· UrbanStems: Your go-to source for fresh, gorgeous bouquets and thoughtful gifts, delivered coast to coast. Treat yourself—or someone you love—with 20% off! Use code BLOOMBIG20 at checkout.
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Transcript
Introduction to Rebloom Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
Hey everyone, welcome to Rebloom, the podcast where we explore the power of change, rediscovery, and living with intention. That's right. We're your hosts, Lori and Jamie, two friends who really love a good story about transformation.
00:00:16
Speaker
In each podcast, we're going to chat with inspiring guests who've made bold pivots in their lives or careers. They've let go of what no longer serve them to embrace something more authentic, joyful, and true to who they really are.
00:00:31
Speaker
And the best part, many of them reconnect with passions or dreams they discovered as kids. It's about finding the seeds planted long ago and letting them bloom again.
00:00:43
Speaker
So if you're ready for real conversations about reinvention, purpose, and following your creative heart, you're in the right place. Let's dive in and see what it takes to re-bloom.
Meet Nava Frost: From Music to Baking
00:00:55
Speaker
Lori, this connection came to me through a dear friend, and I am so excited for our listeners to meet Nava Frost. She is the most incredible person, baker, musician. She wears so many hats, but she is just a delight. And what a great conversation.
00:01:17
Speaker
I was fascinated by the fact that she had not one, but now a second beautiful creative career. Beautiful creative career. Yeah. And they're different, but they're in some ways the same. And I loved hearing her talk about that.
00:01:35
Speaker
Yeah. So for anyone who is headed down one career path, whether it be creative or different, and wants to have that beautiful pivot, you definitely want to hear Nava tell her story.
00:01:48
Speaker
Thanks everyone and bloom big.
00:01:53
Speaker
Well, hello and welcome to another episode of Rebloom. I'm Jamie Jameson. And I'm Lori Siebert. Hi, Lori. How are you today? Hey, Jane, I'm good. You did good on getting securing this interview. oh Good this job.
00:02:09
Speaker
This is a friend reached out and told me about this and our incredible guest, and I cannot wait to welcome her on and and interview her and get to know her a little bit more.
00:02:21
Speaker
um And it's just the power sometimes of direct messaging and Instagram. And here we are today. Reaching out and who knows? You never know. Who knows where you're going to be? Well, today we have the pleasure of speaking with the incredibly talented Nava Perlman Frost.
00:02:40
Speaker
She is a world-renowned concert pianist, but she has had a major pivot and a re-bloom, and she is now creating gorgeous floral cakes. I mean, if anybody wants to buy me a birthday cake... This is where you need to go. I'm telling you, these are the most beautiful, beautiful cakes.
00:03:01
Speaker
um So she's transitioned, um as many of us did after the pandemic, from her life as a musician, and now she is a baker, and she has and incredible business in New York City, and we are so excited to speak with her and welcome. Welcome, Nava. How are you today?
00:03:20
Speaker
Thank you for having me. I'm doing great. I'm so glad that you asked me to do this. Oh, well, you are our perfect guest because as as we were telling you and we like to share, we love to talk to people who've had ah career and then had a very distinct pivot. Now, often we find that our guests pivot from something that's maybe more business related and go to something more creative because their creative heart had been speaking to them.
00:03:49
Speaker
But you really had a very large creative life prior to this. Yes, I pivoted from one creative outlet to another. um i i don't, I mean, I think that they they are yes, there are a lot of differences between being a a musician and being a baker slash cake decorator, but um they're definitely with that it within that same creative realm.
00:04:15
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. Well, but you know, not to go too far back, but but let's, I mean, you were a concert pianist. How did that, were you, ah did you do that as a child? Like what, what brought you to piano?
00:04:28
Speaker
Yeah. So I always loved music growing up. I come from a musical family. My, my father is a musician, a professional musician. um My mother was trained as a professional musician. Actually, that's how they met. They met at music camp.
00:04:42
Speaker
Oh, love that. Yeah. And they ended up getting, they both went to Juilliard and studied with the same violin teacher and they ended up getting married quite young. And the minute they got married, my my mother um stopped playing to become a mom and um travel around with my dad. And when I was born, i'm not sure that, you know, i have an I have an older brother and then there's me and I have three younger siblings. And um i don't think there was ever an expectation that all of us would become
00:05:13
Speaker
professional musicians. um But it certainly wasn't hard to slip into a musical routine, um given the environment in which I grew up.
Pandemic Pivot: Embracing Baking
00:05:26
Speaker
And my piano playing sort of um became a very central part of my life starting when I was like in don't know, it's a kindergarten, I would say. Wow. um And yeah.
00:05:37
Speaker
And I had a ah very um sort of rigorous training um upbringing. And I i wouldn't say it was it was all bad, but it definitely wasn't normal.
00:05:52
Speaker
ah yeah um it wasn't It wasn't your average ah ad situation. I compare it more to like the sports situation. like the sports kids and yeah um some of the child acting situations where let's just say i didn't quite have enough agency to know what was going on um But I did love playing. i still love music. And as I sort of progressed into my teenage years, I started performing professionally. Okay.
00:06:26
Speaker
And if i if it this were if what happened back then were happening now, I would be leveled immediately as a nepo baby. I don't know if you've heard that term. Yes, yes. You know, the nepotism. And I'm going to admit full on that my career started very young, precisely Definitely because of my family connections.
00:06:47
Speaker
um That said, it did last a very long time. And I have always been a believer that, and i I think this is true of any profession, like if you have parents in a specific business and you fall into that business, there's only so long that people will um keep hiring you if you don't actually have the goods to produce something that's marketable and that audiences want.
00:07:10
Speaker
um You know, so I think that for a long time, I may be questioned, well, you know, am I just getting these dates because of my family connections or am I really good enough? And I think that by the time I was 50, I think I figured out that, yeah, I was probably decent enough to be doing what I had been doing. i bet you were. um Yeah. So that was sort of the chapter of um my life that,
00:07:40
Speaker
was extremely fulfilling, extremely rewarding. And i I think that I didn't even realize that I was ready for a shift until COVID.
00:07:52
Speaker
And i think that it's one of those things when you've been doing something for so long, it would sort of be as if someone told you all of a sudden you're not allowed to brush your teeth every day.
00:08:03
Speaker
Yeah. and you would say, oh, okay, well, that won't be that hard. I just won't brush my teeth every day. And then after like two days, you'd be like, wait, I have to brush my teeth. I'm in the, this is part of who I am. yeah And I think that I thought that that would be me with concerts that, you know, COVID happened, the concerts are canceled that I would, after a week I'd be going stir crazy. And I'd be like, wait, I have to play a concert. I got to get out there. My Beethoven is calling me or whatever.
00:08:31
Speaker
But that's not what happened. What happened was I needed to bake a cake and I needed to bake cupcakes and I needed to bake cookies. And all of a sudden it was like, okay, wait, I guess I need a little break.
00:08:43
Speaker
Okay, fine. You know, we'll call it a timeout and I'll start practicing and getting myself ready. Who knows when the pandemic's going to end, but I'm going to, my chops are going to be so ready for that day.
00:08:55
Speaker
The minute they say go, I'm going to be like, you know, straight out of the gate. Um, It is totally not what happened. Yeah. i So did baking, why baking? Where, where did that come from? Was there something that was there all along?
00:09:13
Speaker
Yes. So I was always a hobby baker, like my whole, my teens into my twenties, into my young adulthood. Like I just, baking was definitely always an outlet for me. I loved, um I'm a really big um cook as well. Like I cook regular food too. My parents are both really really, really good cooks and really into food. I've always loved whenever I travel, one of my big things is going to the supermarket.
00:09:40
Speaker
Like no matter where I am, if it's in a place I've never been, it could be in the United States. It could be in a foreign country. I need to go to the supermarket and check it out. um And yeah, it's just, that's how I am. So food was always very central um in my mind is like a big, like passion of mine and ah and a hobby of mine. And In fact, when I was first married, um one friend of my mom's gave me as and as like a bridal shower present, like a stack of cookbooks.
00:10:12
Speaker
And um one of them was The Cake Bible by Rose Levy Berenbaum. She's sort of like one of the grand dames of baking. And I had baked a little bit then, debt for sure, at that point.
00:10:29
Speaker
um i baked and i lived in a house in college for a couple years with my own kitchen, and i had sort of started baking a bit. And I had baked a little bit in high school, just brownies for the bake sale or whatever.
00:10:41
Speaker
um But I got my hands on that cake Bible, and I kept it on my bedside table on my nightstand, and I would read it like a novel. Like I didn't just take it to the kitchen and use it when I was baking. I read it at night before I went to bed, which is actually a habit I got into with all of my cookbooks. But with the baking one, I was very drawn to it. And so in my young adult life, one of the things that
Parallels: Music and Baking
00:11:08
Speaker
I would do when I would come home from playing a concert um elsewhere or being on a tour is I would come home and bake.
00:11:16
Speaker
Like I just loved cookies or brownies or muffins or cakes, whatever. And um it was just a way for me to unwind. And I've always been an entertainer of family and friends. And that continued when we had children, always loved having um when my kids would have friends over to bake cookies together or have them ready as a snack.
00:11:39
Speaker
So it's always something i I used to do sort of in between work events and work obligations. It's such a love language and, and you know, the baking. and But do you find, too, that the precision of what you were doing as a musician, like I think bakers are very precise people. I have way ADD. I'm a better cook than I am a baker.
00:12:01
Speaker
I feel like recipes are just um an outline my Yes. My husband's like, um no, you're supposed to follow them. He's the precision guy. Well, you're not wrong. i mean, as a cook, I'm mean incredibly undisciplined. like I cannot follow a recipe without tweaking it.
00:12:20
Speaker
i I look at it and I'm like, okay, that'll be good. But then when I can get around to doing it, it's really just there for like a jumping off point for me. um And then i just go on my own rogue path. But with baking, you're absolutely right. And in fact, one of the things that um I realized, i mean this is how undisciplined I am, is that when I first started realizing that I was going to be selling my cakes, specifically the cakes in the beginning and the cupcakes, um I realized that over the years, I never
00:12:55
Speaker
really kept track of which cakes I made that I had done anything to. Like had I actually, wait, have I left this recipe alone or have I added something to it I never write anything down. i never did anything like keep like even a file where it's like, okay, of all the layer cakes I've ever made that are chocolate, this one is the best one. So I had to backtrack, try and remember, okay, which were some of the cakes that I liked? And kind of recipe test starting from scratch, because I realized that if customer A ordered a chocolate cake, and then six months later, ordered it again, it better be the same thing.
00:13:37
Speaker
yeah And I wasn't used to having to be consistent like that. So if you you know if you order a specific item from a restaurant or a bakery or any you know any place where they're churning it out and you're expecting that whatever it is, blueberry muffin to be so good the way it was the last time you had it.
00:13:58
Speaker
If it isn't the same recipe, wait, what are you doing? You can't do that. So it reigned me in to what you're suggesting about being scientific, making sure I'm doing exactly the same thing that I do every single time for this specific item and not like deciding to be a maverick and go crazy and like add or subtract anything.
00:14:22
Speaker
um But you're also right in the fact that in general, baking is more precision and repetition, which is true about music as well to a certain degree. Like you're you're you're definitely, in a sense, the cooking analogy is also applicable because let's say you're playing, i don't know, a Mozart concerto.
00:14:44
Speaker
Well, it's the same basic recipe every time. The notes are the same. The tempos are going to be similar. The the rhythms are all going to be hopefully intact. But when you get on stage on a Tuesday, it may be slightly different than when you get on stage that following Saturday after you've played it like, you know, four times in between.
00:15:04
Speaker
So maybe the dynamics will be a little shaded differently. Maybe you'll take a tiny smidge more of a retardando here, but you'll do a little accelerando there that you didn't do before. Like it's, it's like the base formula of the recipe, but maybe a tiny bit more salt and a little bit less acid or a tiny bit more sugar. You know what i mean? It's sort of, you get a little bit of that creative interpretive license um with the actual um sort of presentation. um And that's, that's much less possible with cake, cupcakes, cookies.
00:15:40
Speaker
more possible with bread, you know, because of humidity and hydration. And, you know, so it's like you can you could go crazy with these analogies. so So I'm curious about since you grew up in a ah highly musical family and you've made this pivot, how has has your family reacted to that?
00:16:02
Speaker
So they're all extremely supportive. I mean, i i can't even tell you, it's just so cute. i I really do feel like everybody has been not just accepting of it, but just sort of like really rooting me on. And um I mean, the truth is that when we when I first started realizing that I was jealous of all these bakers on Instagram, I was like, that's kind of how it started too, is how I realized that something was up with me.
00:16:30
Speaker
it wasn't just that I wasn't like gravitating towards the piano to get extra practice done during the pandemic. It was also that I would go on Instagram and I'd look at this woman decorating a cupcake and I'd be like,
00:16:42
Speaker
envious. Like, yeah why am I envious of that? That's just like a frosting flower. Like it's a rose made out of buttercream. Like, why am I feeling like I'm being left behind right now?
00:16:53
Speaker
yeah And so that sort of started it, but my kids were really supportive. And in fact, when we were, i was, I just remember so vividly, we were sitting around me and my husband and a few of my kids. And one of my kids said,
00:17:09
Speaker
you need a name for your business, mom. And I was like, I don't have a business. And they were like, yes, you do. yeah You just don't know it. And I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know what I'm doing. You have the perfect name. but well that atlas So this is the funny part.
00:17:25
Speaker
We sat around once I sort of had accepted it, maybe a few days after the initial conversation, I was like, all right, so what do I do? And my son was like, you need an Instagram that's just for your baking. And we're going to have to figure out how to take really great photos of everything. Because I'm not a person. Is this all during the pandemic? Is this all happening during the pandemic?
00:17:47
Speaker
Yes. Yes. This that is in 2020. Take to the pandemic five years ago. Yes. Go ahead. So so it what it didn't take me too long to to feel this raging amount of jealousy. And yeah so I would say by the time we got to the late,
00:18:02
Speaker
sort of mid to late August of 2020, I was already just sort of, my eyes were just bugging out when I was watching
Social Media: A Catalyst for Growth
00:18:11
Speaker
some of these cake artists and looking at the reels and the videos online of some of these incredibly beautiful, intricate flowers and plants and botanicals and how realistic some of them look, like a bouquet of flowers and then realizing, wait,
00:18:29
Speaker
I'm not looking at real flowers right now. And that was sort of the the start. And then i took, um I did, I ended up sort of going down a rabbit hole with this one woman.
00:18:39
Speaker
Her name is Jane Taylor, and she is from the UK. And if you go to her website, her her Instagram is just stunningly beautiful. But if you then go to the website, she offers ah little tutorials and they could be like for one flower. So like if you didn't know how to pipe a rose, but you just wanted to learn that one flower, she offers it for purchase for very little and you just click some buttons and all of a sudden there she is on the screen teaching you how to do it and you have it forever, this video, this tutorial. So I was like, okay, wait, you know what? That's not a huge investment. I'm going to see, I'm going to try.
00:19:17
Speaker
And by the time we get to like late August, September of 2020, I had created my first cupcake bouquet and we were sort of at potting with one of my siblings who um lives nearby and my sister-in-law.
00:19:34
Speaker
She came over and I mean, this is still pre-vaccination, you know? And so it was we weren't really hanging out with that many people, but she came over and I showed her this cupcake bouquet and she was like, you have to sell that.
00:19:48
Speaker
That's insane. That's stunning. And I was like, okay, I don't even know how to respond to this. But, um yeah, so it was already brewing almost like so we were shut down March 2020. So by August, September 2020, I was already sort of kind of getting myself organized and ready to go um practicing.
00:20:12
Speaker
the peonies, the roses, the dahlias, the succulents, like all these different flowers that um I also am just a very visual, like I've always been a very visual person.
00:20:24
Speaker
Like I was the arts and crafts kid growing up, always loved painting, loved drawing, loved everything visual. I was an art history major in college, you know, like I've always, always loved anything beautiful, like to see, to listen to.
00:20:41
Speaker
um So at that point, my son and one of my daughters, we were like going through, oh, what should the name of this bakery be? This micro bakery that you're going to do out of your home.
00:20:54
Speaker
And we went through all these all these names and my son kept typing them in and he'd be like, nope, that's taken. Nope, that's taken. Nope, that's taken. Everyone has your name you know this name, that name. Because I was thinking of regular generic bakery names.
00:21:07
Speaker
Then my daughter, one of our daughters said, wait, are we dumb? yeah What are we doing? It's frosted by Nava. yeah Like how obvious could this be? Like how, why are we wringing our hands and trying to find something when it's right smack in front of our noses? It's so brilliant. It's so brilliant. Yeah.
00:21:29
Speaker
oh So that that was the the way that we got to that name. I think i have to thank my kids for that. but um And then the next step was really sort of also um a winging it sort of thing, which is...
00:21:45
Speaker
I, so I didn't really have any customers and i needed to be able to show like via social media that like what I was doing.
00:21:55
Speaker
Right. so I have a friend who is actually not a photographer, but he's a really good hobby photographer. And i called him and I was like, if we stand six feet apart,
00:22:10
Speaker
And wear masks. Would you come over here? And I'm going to photo, I'll bake a ton of stuff. I'll have you photograph it. And we're just going to pretend like I'll very slowly post over a period of time and it'll look like.
00:22:25
Speaker
I'm baking for a specific person, but actually it's just going to be your stock. I'll just stash, you know, um, a bunch of photos and to make it. Exactly. yeah And what I found out at that moment, so this is September of 2020 is the power of social media and the power photography.
00:22:46
Speaker
Yes. It's yes really something. Let's take a quick minute and thank our amazing sponsors. Our podcast is proudly brought to you today by Jet Creative and Urban Stems.
00:22:59
Speaker
Jet Creative is a women owned marketing firm committed to community and empowerment since 2013. Are you ready to re-bloom and build a website or start a podcast? Visit jetcreative.com backslash podcast to kickstart your journey.
00:23:15
Speaker
They will help you bloom in ways you never imagined. And bonus, our listeners get an exclusive discount when you mention Rebloom. And a huge thanks to Urban Stems, your go-to and our go-to source for fresh, gorgeous bouquets and gifts delivered coast to coast.
00:23:34
Speaker
Use Bloom Big 20 and save 20% on your next order. And don't forget to subscribe to this podcast and follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Rebloom Podcast. Thanks to our sponsors and thanks to you for joining us today.
00:23:53
Speaker
Well, and i I teach social media to artists and florists. floists and ah it it just, if you have beautiful content, it just goes, mean, because that's what people want to see. And particularly during 2020, and even now, we want, I mean, we were all on our social media looking at what was out there, looking what was going to inspire us.
00:24:15
Speaker
And putting together your beautiful cupcakes and cakes, I mean, absolutely gorgeous. So of course, it's going to stop people in their tracks. So did the customers start coming pretty quickly? It was really amazing. I had, of course, in the beginning, it was just kind of friends and family. And I really have a handful. There are a handful of people that I really have.
00:24:39
Speaker
such gratitude towards them because yes, they're friends of mine, but they didn't have to do what they did, which is to go out of their way and order stuff from me. And even though it was an odd time, Nava, i want to ask this question because we have many listeners who start as hobbyists and they're just baking. Did you start a bit? Did you actually get a business checking account? Did you like begin to think of this as a real business at this time? So in the beginning, what I did, so my husband actually has an MBA and I don't.
00:25:08
Speaker
So I said to him, i was like, what do I do? Like, what am I doing right now? And he, i think wisely, because nobody can predict the future, he said, you know, let's not do anything yet.
00:25:21
Speaker
He said, let's see how it goes. And then when when we see that that this isn't going any that this isn't going anywhere but forward, then we will get your LLC, we'll get your insurance, we'll do all of, we'll cross the t the T's and dot the I's. And he was right because i think it could have, there are a lot of things that could have happened that would have prevented me from doing sort of going forward with it. One would have been maybe, i don't know that I missed playing piano so, so much that I wouldn't have wanted to go further than just you know keep the hobby going.
00:25:57
Speaker
Um, it could be that I would have tried, but that I didn't have, I couldn't gain traction or momentum. And so I gave up, like, who knows what would have been like any number of things could have, could have prevented me from, from moving forward. And instead it was what I never, ever would have predicted. I mean, never.
00:26:18
Speaker
And there were a few kinds of things that, that sort of got me. So first it was, it was family and friends and a few friends that, um, you know, really just used any excuse to order something from me, which was really, really nice.
00:26:31
Speaker
And in the beginning, actually, I had a website and it had like cookies, it had bread on it, cinnamon rolls, babka, it had like a lot of different things on it. But very, very quickly, I saw that most of my orders were cake and cupcakes with requests for these flowers. And i i I had to break it to a few, so I had a few study customers who ordered kind of lots of things and I had to tell them I'm actually taking everything off the website except cake and cupcakes because it's like too difficult to, when you're when you're like trying to get a rhythm in the kitchen and you're using a yeasted dough and then you're not using yeasted dough for that. So you're proofing over here, you're not proofing over there. Something has to be refrigerated for this amount of time. Like, it was too much going on and I was doing everything alone. So I, I decided, you know what, I got to streamline if this is going to really work and make it like very narrow. And by the way, before I even got off the ground, I had already like did some, I did like so some focus groups um where I make like five different chocolate cakes, label them one, two, one through five. Yeah.
00:27:47
Speaker
take these pieces, wrap them and but kind of disperse them among family, friends, and just be like, please like give me your ratings so that I can see what lands on top.
00:27:58
Speaker
Cause that top place, that winner is going to be what I use like period. And every so often i redo and I redo, I kind of go back to the drawing board just to make sure that I'm giving whoever's ordering from me the best possible version of a vanilla layer cake or the best possible version of carrot cake so that I feel comfortable saying like this cake tastes really, really good. And I've yeah really explored every option for what chocolate cake is or vanilla cake is or whatever. i I love that. And I think sometimes when we start out to we we want to be all things to all people.
00:28:37
Speaker
And the fact that you actually pulled it back is huge. And it's also looking at where you're as always say, where's your bread and butter or where where's your where's your frosting happening? Like where are where do you want to put your efforts? Because if it is just you and you're spread so thin, then you do burn out.
00:28:55
Speaker
That's right. And instead you really brought it all in and focused on the thing that you were not only loved creatively, but you were doing oh so well. Well, this is also interesting that i I think one of the reasons that I didn't think it would really go anywhere is because, so I live in New York City, the city where you can get anything you want at any time of day on any street street corner, right? right Wrong.
00:29:20
Speaker
yeah It turns out that although there are so many wonderful bakeries in this city. Not a lot of people do what I do. It turns out on a storefront level, like there are
Local Orders and Quality Control
00:29:33
Speaker
a handful of bakers that I found on Instagram um in this area that do something similar to what I do. Of course, it doesn't, it's not exactly the same, but when I have to turn away a customer, cause I'm fully booked, I do have a few people that I can set that I can say, look, try this person. it's
00:29:52
Speaker
the closest to what I do visually. um On the other hand, if we were all the way over in the UK, could recommend 20 other people. Yeah. They do have a lot over there.
00:30:05
Speaker
They are cupcake bouquet central yeah over there. im Like it's massive, massive, massive. um cottage industry. And here it's, it's just so odd to me that in the, I consider my hometown to be one of the centers of the universe. yeah um And yet people can't seem to get what they want um on, you know, on Columbus Avenue.
00:30:33
Speaker
Interesting. So I have two questions. One is, are you still doing everything yourself? And do you have help? And also, are you mostly focused local? Or do you also ship product?
00:30:45
Speaker
So I don't ship anything. um I think at one point, I was like, Oh, it'd be great if I could ship. But the truth is, once I eliminated the things that weren't fragile, like the babka and the cinnamon rolls, those things ship very easily. right But the flowers, so I, all of the flowers that I make are made from American buttercream, which is basically butter and powdered sugar, um which means that like under 72 degrees,
00:31:16
Speaker
is great, but the minute it goes above 72 degrees, it starts melting. So that means for shipping, dry ice. It means also protecting so that nothing moves. i just it's too i My business isn't big enough to kind of enable me to then also do all of that.
00:31:37
Speaker
um And to answer your other question, I do have a baking assistant who helps me just with cake layers and cupcake. um She doesn't do any decorating, but she is a huge help and a time saver and a life saver um because I can't, if i was doing every single thing by myself, I wouldn't be able to take the volume of orders. I still don't even take the volume of orders. I have more volume coming in than I can put out. So I do feel like it is important just coming back to this. It is important for me to have people that I can point to and say, you know,
00:32:07
Speaker
I can't do that. That week is gone, but you can go to this person or this person and you'll get something similar. On an average week, how many cakes are you making or cakes and cupcakes on average?
00:32:19
Speaker
Yeah. So I try really, really hard not to go above seven cakes a week or rather it's really more like seven orders a week so that every day i have the one order. the the The problem with that is that some of the orders are really big. So as an example,
00:32:36
Speaker
I might have one order for a week if it's a wedding, you know, so that I'm just focusing on the 250 people that are going to be eating the cake at the end of that week. um But if it's a week where it's all birthdays, nothing huge, no big bridal showers or engagement parties, then I can really, i can up it because i have more space and I can, um i can do that if I get, but, but again, like I've had orders where I've done, you know, seven dozen cupcakes and,
00:33:05
Speaker
And if I'm doing that, I can't take that much in addition to that. Just right there's only so much space on the couch. And you're still doing it out of your home. So your cottage industry.
00:33:17
Speaker
yeah And it's, I mean, but it's incredible the way that it's grown. And so you're consistent in everything. I mean, every week. So tracking back a little bit to what you mentioned earlier. So the way that that happened was i really think sort of a phenomena of um social media and also of the fact that I do live in a city and not a rural area. So it's like, there's just such easy access. And I'm also a person, like I belong to a lot of different communities.
00:33:50
Speaker
um Like I have a, my mom can, you know, all the people that my kids grew up with, all their parents, like I'm still in touch with a lot of those people.
00:34:00
Speaker
I'm still a member of my synagogue. I'm a member of, ah like I have, believe it or not, a group fitness community that I've been working out with for years. So I have those people. I have, so it's, I have lots of different like groups of friends.
00:34:17
Speaker
And i think because of that, like once it's like a fire that spreads very quickly, someone will be at a party and they'll say, oh, um where did you get that cake? And then the next thing I know,
00:34:29
Speaker
I'm getting an email from like three other people who are at that same party saying, can I get a cake just like the one I ate last night at so-and-so's house or whatever. but but what happened But before that could happen, I think that ah social media really helped. And there were a couple of things. So one was that on the year anniversary of COVID,
00:34:51
Speaker
um Reuters reached out to me. I don't know how they found me, but they reached out to me. I mean, they found me on Instagram and they just said, you know, we're doing a piece on people um who started a business because of COVID and like what they're doing a year later.
00:35:05
Speaker
So the Reuters piece got sort of spread out, you know, how it works. Like you can, all these different publications can buy it and then print it. um The Jewish Telegraphic Agency has a similar setup and there was a woman who who does food reporting, who I knew through my kids' school, she reached out to me and she was like, can I interview you about the fact that you're doing this now?
00:35:29
Speaker
Yes.
Artistic Expression in Baking
00:35:30
Speaker
Time Out New York was like out of the blue, reached out to me. Can we do a blurb on you? And once those things happen um and they put it on their Instagram, in addition to the fact that it's published like in I want to say in print, but it's like whatever, digital.
00:35:47
Speaker
um That's a lot of people reading your name in this context with the photos. They always were ah accompanied by photos of the cakes. And so there's like sort of a a steady, it was a steady stream of publicity that I wasn't even like,
00:36:05
Speaker
It was funny. Someone said to me, do you have a publicist? How are you getting all this? I'm like, I didn't look for it. They found me on Instagram. I don't know what the algorithm on these people's phones are, but it must have popped up because yeah this is what's happened. And then every once in a while, like there's a high profile person who will post or follow or whatever and or interview you such as miss katie kurek who did a gorgeous interview about you and but you know that's huge i mean when they when they have now so here's a question about the collaboration of the cake so i am a floral person um obviously i take photos of lots of flowers i have um actually since about 2015
00:36:50
Speaker
But if we were going to work on a cake together, how does it usually, how does the process usually go? Right. So a lot of my um wedding couples will, and I've had it even for bridal shower and engagement parties and stuff like this, even big birthday parties, like.
00:37:07
Speaker
um a big 50th or a big 60th or whatever, people will send me photos of the flower arrangements that they've gotten from their florists or some people are super organized and they have like a huge, it's almost like a storyboard for their wedding or their event.
00:37:24
Speaker
so And it will have color swatches and um pictures of the flowers and pictures of the tablescape in general, like what they think they're going to end up with.
00:37:37
Speaker
And then they'll just say to me, like, this is the vibe we're going for. What do you think? And i can sort of chime in and out. I mean, the truth is, and I'm sure you being so plugged into flowers, you know, there's not really any such thing as like an ugly flower.
00:37:57
Speaker
no, no. it doesn't exist. The one thing that has happened every once in a while, and this is like where I I feel like I need to learn. i I learn from my customers. Sometimes I'll get a request and someone will say, um you know, for some reason they want some color combination that I'm like afraid of.
00:38:19
Speaker
Like a good example is blue. So it's very hard to find a blue flower that's really blue. Like they usually tend toward purple. yeah There is one type of Icelandic poppy that is actually blue.
00:38:31
Speaker
But even so, like... Every once in a while, I'll be like, you know, okay, I got, I got to put my thinking cap on here. Cause I can't have this look tacky and like a Disney like cartoon or something.
00:38:42
Speaker
So once in a while i will get something like that. But what I've learned is that if I'm willing to be a little more open minded and a little more accepting of my brief, it usually turns out totally fine.
00:38:58
Speaker
So I have a repeat customer and her, Last year, her birthday, um her birthday order, she wanted everything aqua, teal, seafoam, like all of these colors that don't, like if you walked into a flower shop.
00:39:18
Speaker
Right, right. You're not going to find those. Yeah. You're just not. But I was like, okay, you know what? It's going to be fine. It's going to be okay. I'm not going to worry about nature right now.
00:39:32
Speaker
I'm going to do this as an art project and I'm going to make it beautiful. And know what? It didn't look like anything that exists in nature, but it did look great. yeah like can actually so I just have to be a little, sometimes i have to be a little more accepting. I wish I had known that in the very beginning. I did do one Baltimore Ravens themed color scheme on a cake and I didn't know what I was doing And I do feel still very much a bit of regret about the way that one turned out. But um it's all learning. And, you know, I think sometimes and you're right, there are very few blues out there very and and I take great inspiration by. um
00:40:14
Speaker
Oh, God, just there's some just some beautiful florists out there who put combinations together. And I think. like Tulipina, if you follow Tulipina, oh my God, the stuff she puts together. I'm like, how did you, like the combinations that she puts together are just absolutely unreal.
00:40:32
Speaker
And, but yeah, it's, it's, that's, that's the tricky part of it too, because it's sort of your taste, but also you have to deal with the client and whatever the client wants. And yes, yes. And um yeah. Yeah.
00:40:45
Speaker
So are you still playing? And if you're not, ah do you miss it at all? Yeah, that's great question. I'm really not playing. I'm really not. um you know Once in a while, ah someone will say to me, like I'll have a friend say to me, would you ever consider, you know i'm going to do such and such and such. and um We'd love to have you ah perform. And i you know I feel very committed and invested in this new chapter.
00:41:18
Speaker
And it's it's sort of, to me, I kind of feel like it's like it's a funny thing, I think. And I really believe this is sort of true for myself, but I'm sure for other other people may be able to relate.
00:41:34
Speaker
So I think that one of the reasons that I don't miss it so much is because there was something waiting for me just sitting in my lap almost yeah instantly. The minute like I wasn't playing concerts, all of a sudden I was playing another kind of concert, if you know what I mean. yeah yeah It's still an audience, you know, that I, that I have to present something to. And I think that was very familiar to me and was keeping that piece of me that wants to make people happy. I guess I'm a bit of a people pleaser.
00:42:06
Speaker
um And so that was sort of fulfilling that. yeah Okay. Check that box. Right. Yeah. And then the other thing about the caking that i the cake,
00:42:17
Speaker
stuff that I do is that it's also very, can be expressive and interpretive um and improvisational in a way. and I think that ticked off that other box, you know, that I was used to having.
00:42:33
Speaker
um But I do think that like being spread thin is not appealing to me. and if I try to do everything, something would suffer. So I, but, ah but the truth is that I'm just enjoying this so much that it it didn't really occur to me to ah go back or to stop kind of stop the train from just you know, going
Feedback and Personal Growth
00:42:57
Speaker
down the track.
00:42:57
Speaker
I love it. So i i have a question. um When you're in music, you would get applause instantly. And you posted the other day about going, you made a beautiful heart cake and you went to someone's birthday. And it was, first of all, a stunning cake. It was absolutely gorgeous.
00:43:15
Speaker
um But what are the gifts or what are the applause that are happening now that are filling you up? Because it's different. You would get into gratification and now it's little different. And you, you talked about that and I thought that was really interesting.
00:43:28
Speaker
It is, you know, it's different, but it's similar. So like one of the things that I love is I do get with a lot of my customers, not everybody, but a lot of them, i will get an email or a text or direct message after the fact.
00:43:44
Speaker
And sometimes a little photo with a picture of the cake actually, you know, cut yeah saying, I just want you to know it made my birthday so special or my grandma's birthday so special, whatever it was. um And in the case of the wedding couples, I almost always get sort of a very, very immediate response because they're always,
00:44:07
Speaker
I don't know, the couples I deal with, their of but they've always been, I guess, super organized. So I'll get like a text or an email like within a couple of days. Oh my gosh, it was amazing. And um so that kind of fulfills that, you know, getting the the applause and taking the bow um in that way is kind of like a ah different scale, but really, really special.
00:44:29
Speaker
um Yeah. And every once in a while, I'm actually at somebody's event where I've made the cake and brought it to the event. like the other night that heart cake was actually for a friend of mine. And i love, I, there I really do love that because I get to see it in real time. yeah And when it comes at, so in that particular case, she ordered and a lot of people do this. So she said, I i want a heart shaped cake and I want cherry blossoms. And that's all I'm going to say. And flavors aside, she told me the flavors, but she was like, from a visual perspective, like just do what you want. But those are the two things I kind of
00:45:05
Speaker
I'm thinking about. So I said, fine. So she actually didn't see the cake before it came out. um Her husband had texted me and was like, can you like put a piece of paper over the window? There's the boxes I you've use, have like a plastic window in the top so you can like see into them.
00:45:21
Speaker
He was like, can you tape something over that? I don't want her to see it. I said, sure. So like when it came out and I saw her face light up, it was like really sweet. That's pretty amazing.
00:45:31
Speaker
and There must be something beautiful about bringing something so beautiful to celebrations and, you know, real pivot points in people's lives and you're celebrating with them.
00:45:44
Speaker
it's, it is. And, and also, you know, every, also every once in a while you get like a special order. There's this, man that that um messaged me, this was a couple of years ago. and he basically was like, my wife has um celiac. And i just want to know if you make gluten free cakes. And of course, I hadn't done any at that point. And I wrote him back and I said, you know, I haven't done any. I said, my kitchen is full of regular flour, I would be very nervous about cross contamination.
00:46:13
Speaker
um i said, but um if I clean up, and I have enough time to test between now and then, do you want me to get back to you? Because maybe I'll figure it out.
00:46:25
Speaker
And he said, please do. So this was in the beginning and I wasn't like inundated with orders. And I actually had a day here or there to fuss around. And I ended up coming up with a couple of options that I thought were good. And I texted him back and I said, I think I can do it.
00:46:42
Speaker
So he said, I'm so grateful. And anyway, I made the cake. And he wrote me practically like a letter afterwards, like a long letter about how special it was because it's so hard for her to find something beautiful that tastes good, that isn't, you know, just sort of like generic.
00:46:59
Speaker
And, um, it makes you feel like you did a good deed. yeah so Yeah. Yeah. Well, you're spreading, you're spreading joy and you're giving joy and happiness and in our world today. I mean, that's why Lori puts out the beautiful colors and art that she does and why I put out the flowers that I do. And when I saw your, your Instagram, I'm like,
00:47:22
Speaker
Oh my God. Like it's just amazing. And I love the pivot that you took and, you know, especially because you did, you had a very successful career, but I love how you've turned this hobby into a full on business.
Building Community Through Baking
00:47:38
Speaker
and it at And, over five, five years later, what have been some of the best blessings that you've had over the five years?
00:47:47
Speaker
You know, I feel like it's a jet, there there are a few like highlights, of course, like when i got a message from Katie Couric, that was yeah pretty fun. That'd be up on that list. Yeah. That was really, really so sweet and special.
00:47:59
Speaker
But like there have been, i think in general, this feeling that what I do is making someone happy, even if it's for like a very short period of time, that sort of is very fulfilling for me.
00:48:12
Speaker
um And also i do love... um Every once in a while, there's like a fun moment with someone I don't know um where we end up striking up a friendship.
00:48:25
Speaker
And I'm like, I feel like I know this person, even though we've only really communicated via direct message on Facebook. um social media, but I kind of like the new friends I'm making. Like it's so weird, but all of a sudden I feel like I have this community of new friends. And in fact, when I first started out my first wedding cake order that came in I was so nervous. And let me just give you a little bit of background. I did make a wedding cake many, many years ago before I had a business doing this hour then
00:49:01
Speaker
babysitter was getting married and she's not from the States and she had no family here. And she said she was just going to get married at the courthouse, no party. And I said, wait, I'm going to make you a wedding cake and I'm goingnna make you a party at our apartment.
00:49:14
Speaker
And she was like, what? And she knew I baked because she knew I would do that in my downtime. But She was like, Nava, no offense, but you don't know how to make a wedding cake. And I said, I know I don't, I'm going to learn. And at that time, there was no iPhone. There was no Instagram. It was like YouTube and a big wedding book by Martha Stewart yeah that had all these instructions in it.
00:49:41
Speaker
I still have the book. It's like this big book and it has recipes, measurements, like all the science for constructing things. the cake, the dowels, the boards, um how many cups of batter per, like what inch pan you're using for this recipe.
00:50:00
Speaker
I did the whole thing through that book and I still have some photos of it and it looked really not great. It looked okay.
00:50:10
Speaker
it It didn't look great, but it was the thought that counted. But you tried. yeah I tried and it tasted good. Jump to hat jump ahead now to... Beginning of 2021. And a friend of my sister-in-law's reaches out to me.
00:50:25
Speaker
And she says, you know, i know we've only met a couple times through your, you know, through your brother and sister-in-law, but um she showed me some photos of your cakes and I want you to make my daughter's wedding cake.
00:50:39
Speaker
And I was beyond terrified. Yeah. I was terrified. But one thing that came out of that, first of all, I'm grateful to that woman. I'm actually about to make another one of her kids' wedding cakes. Oh, nice. for June, one of her other daughters is getting married.
00:50:53
Speaker
um so But I'm very thankful for her because she had faith in me without any real reason to have faith in me. Yeah. Yeah. But the other thing is i became part of a wedding cake um Facebook group, like people who make wedding cakes. And i have like a whole community there that I feel so like grateful for. And whenever there's anything, people, you know, they put a question up, has anyone ever used this brand of um flour or this brand of like, why is this not working? And someone chiming in, are you using this powdered sugar? Because if you're not, you should be. Or, you know, yeah you can find a lot of comfort in these communities. And I feel like that's been a big huge highlight for me is like finding people that I never thought in my 50s, all of a sudden I have like all these new friends yeah um that I can be geeky and talk crazy cake ah details with.
00:51:51
Speaker
And it's just been so great. Oh, I love that. i love i love that like that. And I agree. i mean, i I have all my little floral friends. i have friends in England that I've met. I have friends all over the, I mean, and you just, I love when you meet people. And and and I think because of COVID too, we all felt so isolated that sometimes social media has provided those beautiful connections.
00:52:15
Speaker
Lori and i had, well, we met through something else, but I mean, i would have been friends. i mean But that came about because of social media. media Is that right? Oh, yeah, absolutely. We are friends in person doing things together doing this podcast.
00:52:31
Speaker
I mean, you know, you never, you never know the path you're going to take where it's going to lead. But I do credit a lot of what my success and what I've done. And it's lovely to hear you reiterate that too, in social media, because it
Balancing Business and Personal Fulfillment
00:52:43
Speaker
just made a huge world. It's opened so many doors that you never thought could be only And you mentioned how important community is to building a business.
00:52:51
Speaker
I mean, you're building it through social media, but you're also building it through being involved and meeting people. And, you know, that's that is so powerful. The irony, this is the funny part, is that all of our children...
00:53:06
Speaker
have now sworn off social media. Like they're not on it anymore because they're like, mom, it's not healthy. We get you have to do it for your business, but we're not doing it. and it's i find um I find it really funny and cute. and they do occasionally they'll pop on Instagram Why?
00:53:24
Speaker
to show a friend my business. yeah blank it' yeah It's adorable. And I just really appreciate it All of a sudden, I'll have all these college students, these like new followers. I'm like, who are all these new followers?
00:53:35
Speaker
Oh, I see in their bio, they're all college students from my son's school or whatever my daughter's school is. Like, oh, they're all their friends. But really funny. It's fun to have little friend among among the 20-year-olds. It is. You know, I'm like, okay, I cool mom in my 50s. Exactly. You know, even though I'm a grandma. And, you know, it's kind of funny. It's kind of funny.
00:53:57
Speaker
Oh, my gosh. Well, Nava, what advice has been given to you maybe in this new chapter of your life or maybe even in your past chapter that you sort of hold on to that guide you or that maybe you even give to others?
00:54:10
Speaker
Right. Well, you know, it's funny. i'm So i'm going to name drop just for a second. That's okay. One of the my early like cheerleaders who I was just like sort of astounded, kind of just mind boggled that she found me. But um one of the I would call her a baking queen, um but also a cooking queen and a cookbook queen, but Dory Greenspan, who I don't know if you know that name. love her cookbook. Yes. so She has a bunch of them.
00:54:40
Speaker
Yeah. So she has a lot of books out there and she, um she became very much a like a little bit of a mentor to me when in early days. um And, and, and actually she found me on social media, she found me on Instagram, but she, um she said to me in the very beginning, like, what, what do you do? Like, what's going on? What are you doing? Like, she knew, she kind of remembered me from when I was a musician and she was like, what's going on? Like what's happening here? And I kind of explained and
00:55:13
Speaker
She said to me, when you're doing, like she said something, and I don't even know if she would remember telling me this because often people don't remember when they've given wise advice and you you spit it back at them and they're like did I say that? But she did say to me, you're in a second career.
00:55:30
Speaker
And I think for a second career, you should do what you want to do, not what other people are telling you to do. And the way that it had come up is that I had had a few people approach me and they were like, do you need an angel investor for a brick and mortar store? We, we'd put money in it. Like if you want, you know, if you need money or do whatever um we can to support you.
00:55:52
Speaker
and I remember thinking to myself, well, first of all, I was really flattered, but then I was like, do I want a bakery? Do I want to own a bait, like a real bakery on the street where people can just come in and,
00:56:03
Speaker
I was really, really um kind of, I just was very apprehensive. And when I brought it up to her, she said, you're apprehensive probably because you don't want that.
00:56:15
Speaker
right um And if you do want it, eventually it'll play out and you'll realize you do. But if you don't want it right now, this is your second chance of doing something that you want to do.
00:56:27
Speaker
And it's about you and what you feel like doing. So if making one cake a month is what you want to do, Then bake one cake a month. Yeah. That is the best advice. That's the best advice. Because I always say, you know, what's the view at the top of the mountain? And people are always like, you should open in a pretty store. And I'm like, okay, who's managing the pretty store? Who's paying the rent?
00:56:47
Speaker
who's goingnna Who's going to do all of that? Do you realize what a pretty store involves? And, you know, they want it because it's their convenience, but it's not necessarily your convenience. Right. Exactly. That's right. If you have the flexibility to, to create what you're doing within the parameters that you're doing, then that's perfect.
00:57:07
Speaker
That's perfect. Right. Yeah. I mean, the the other thing that I had brought up ah to myself, but after Dory had said that to me, was, you know, i don't think that if one of the reasons I think that my cakes have been like what has happened is because they look a certain way and in order for me to train, so I'd have to try and train other people.
00:57:30
Speaker
If I'm going to scale up, who's doing all that decorate? Like I can't stay up all night. and and I do need to sleep at some point. Exactly. And you can't read, it's like handwriting. It's not going to look the same.
00:57:41
Speaker
Right. Like it's, it's very personal. And yeah I found that out when I was learning from these tutorials, I was like, Oh, I'm going to make these look like Jane's. And I'm looking at Jane and Jane is piping and I'm piping and I'm using the exact same equipment, the exact same frosting recipe, the exact same everything.
00:57:58
Speaker
Does my flower look like that? No, because it's like a it's a personal hand thing. And you're you're painting with frosting. i Every artist's work looks different.
00:58:11
Speaker
And it's a very that's right it's a very unique thing. There was a lady on the Today Show today, um today's show today but she was making scones in New York City. And she goes, I'm the only one that touches the dough.
00:58:22
Speaker
No one else. And I'm like, and they're like, nobody else helps you. She goes, nope, it's my recipe.
Reflection and Conclusion
00:58:26
Speaker
Like you could tell she was, and she has a brick and mortar. I'm like, God bless She looked a little tired, I'm going to say, but she was like, Now I'm curious, who was that? Yeah, i i'll have to I'll have to look that up and let you know. But it it i it but you know I get it. And I get that even for my florals and things like that. And Lori's an artist. I mean, you can have, it's still got to be your your art, your you touching it.
00:58:51
Speaker
And Well, and I love when I teach that everybody's work at the end of the class looks so different. Well, I encourage that yeah too, but that's one of the great joys is seeing people's personality, their hand, yeah their voice coming through their work.
00:59:07
Speaker
Yeah. yeah It's amazing. Well, Nama, you have been such a delight, such a treat for us and for our listeners. Thank you so much for sharing your journey with us.
00:59:18
Speaker
And I selfishly asked about shipping because i just want to taste one of your cakes. We should ask just at the final, and we will put this in the in our things too. what is What is the general order ahead if they were in New York City? How far ahead are you ordering now?
00:59:35
Speaker
ah So it's a real problem. i feel so guilty. I have to say no to people every day. But right now, i'm ah don't really have any time until the end of June.
00:59:48
Speaker
um And there are still a few dates laid ah in late June that are open, but you know it's we're we're getting toward July now. So it's it's actually quite common for spring to be – A little Well, it books farther ahead because it's usually weddings, graduations, and that stuff.
01:00:07
Speaker
So people want to guarantee it. So they'll like get to me very, very far in advance. yeah My birthday's in August. Anyone, my daughter who lives in New York City, just just so you know, sweetheart. You can't bring it on the plane. people yeah Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. And to our listeners, peace, love and rebloom.
01:00:31
Speaker
Life is too short not to follow your passions. So go out there and let your heart plant you where you are meant to be and grow your joy. We will be right here sharing more incredible stories of reinvention with you.
01:00:45
Speaker
Make sure to subscribe to our podcast so you never miss an episode of Rebloom. Until next time, I'm Jamie Jameson. And I'm Lori Siebert. Peace, love, and Rebloom, dear friends.