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Doom (2005)
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In the penultimate episode of Season 2, join Satsunami and Adam as they discuss the infamous Doom film. Where are the demons? Why is everyone so angry? And what's the deal with nano walls?! All this and more in this episode of Chatsunami!
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Transcript
Introduction and Trip to Mars
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Chad Tsunami. Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Chad Tsunami. I'm Sad Tsunami and joining me in this journey to hell to fight all these demons is... Hold on, I'm getting a call.
00:00:33
Speaker
What do you mean we can't call them that? That's literally fine, okay. Joining me today to go to Mars to fight off the infected is Adam. Adam, welcome. Do you want to talk about the infected on Mars? Those damn Mars infected. How I, how I love them. Yeah, spoiling our intros.
00:01:01
Speaker
ruining everything as they always do. This is why I didn't get on that shuttle to Mars. They should go back to that place that's often very fiery and got a big red man there. What, you mean London?
00:01:15
Speaker
Ah, humour. Anyway, how are you doing? I'm not too bad, thanks good to be back as always, as we speed towards the big 100 like a runaway train.
Reflecting on Chatsunami's Journey
00:01:25
Speaker
I can't believe this, I was saying this to you before we started recording but yeah, this is the penultimate episode of Season 2 and it's amazing to think we've just blasted through so many episodes. I know it literally just seems like a couple weeks back that we started Season 2 and I'm like wow, like 49 episodes have gone in between.
00:01:42
Speaker
Yeah, because the first episode was... it was a coronetal trilogy, wasn't it? My god. That seems so recent but so long ago. It honestly is.
Setting the Stage for Doom Movie Critique
00:01:52
Speaker
Like, time flies when you're having fun. So yeah, I thought we were having far too much fun and I decided to really humble ourselves by watching the 2005 flick Doom. Cratching down to earth.
00:02:05
Speaker
or Mars as we keep emphasising in this downfall. Before we jump into this episode, I have a very important question for you. What is your relationship with the Doom franchise? Because as we know, Doom is a very beloved and popular video game series that I think the last game came out in 2016, not 2016, 2018, I want to say. 2020? Well, just before the pandemic in memory serves.
00:02:33
Speaker
So it did because it came out at the exact same time as Animal Crossing. If you remember all those, you remember all the Doom Slayer Isabelle. Nothing says wholesome family entertainment than Isabelle yelling into the depths of hell ripping tear.
00:02:51
Speaker
Oh, it was a simpler time, two years ago. It was a different time, okay. Well, Dungy actually wore his helmet, he wore his mask, so he did a different props of that, even in hell. He was socially distancing. Oh, that's true. Well, sorry, I may rephrase that, he was socially distancing demons from their own tortures, but that's another thing.
00:03:09
Speaker
No, I've played every mainline Doom game, which I think they haven't really had mainline games. I don't think there's been any kind of spin-offs. But no,
Experiences with Doom Games
00:03:17
Speaker
I've played them all. I mean, I came, my first Doom game was Doom 3, which I played a couple years after. It was really like 2008 or something, is when I played it. And then later on, probably nearly a decade later, I kind of got into the older ones like Doom 1 and Doom 2. And then, you know, the more recent entries, as we say,
00:03:32
Speaker
2016 Doom and then Doom Eternal. So yeah, I've played all the games, I really like the vast majority of Doom games. Yeah, I really like it as a franchise. What about yourself? Doom is one of these franchises that I knew of. I bet like Duke Nukem, but I wasn't really allowed to play those kinds of games when I was a kid. You know what it's like.
00:03:49
Speaker
when you were younger and you saw other people in school playing GTA or Duke Nukem for example and you wanted to play those kind of games well before you knew like Duke Nukem was a hot mess but anyway sorry that's another episode for another time please don't make me do a Duke Nukem episode
00:04:07
Speaker
Oh, don't worry, I'll leave that for the fans. If you dial in now, you two can get it. That's the first episode of season three. We're doing the Duke Nukem month. Although actually fun story about that. I always remember I went into my brother's room one day when he was playing the N64 and he had a copy of, I think it was Duke Nukem 64, was that right? Yeah, I think it was the 64 version of the Duke Nukem 3D, I think.
00:04:37
Speaker
and I remember him playing it. Looking back on it now, you know, the graphics are all pixelated and it's not as graphic as like games today. Like for example Doom 2016 to Materno is nothing compared to that. But I always remember walking in the room and watching him play, you know, as brothers do. Younger brothers looking at their older brothers being like, oh we're playing this game, which I still blame him for getting me into Sonic. But yeah, I remember my mum came in just as he was playing it and she went ballistic. She was like,
00:05:05
Speaker
What are you doing? You're showing your little brother this violent video game? You honestly can't imagine it nowadays. Can't see that compared to something like Mortal Kombat or a Grand Theft Auto game, would you say? Exactly. Yeah, I wasn't really allowed to play those kind of games. I knew all of them. I just never really got into them. I think
00:05:24
Speaker
first time I actually ever played a Doom game was when I came to visit you one day and you were having like a game day with a couple of friends and we played the I think it was the Doom multiplayer. Oh yeah for the first game. Yeah. I somehow picked a map that had no guns on it. I don't know how it did happen anyway. It's like Golden Isle over again. Slappers only.
00:05:47
Speaker
I had never played a Doom game before that, and then the first time I properly went away and played it by myself was when I got into streaming and I played Doom 2016. I think I played it because I'd just reached affiliate at the time. I can't remember why, but there was a reason why I played it. It was like getting the celebration stream
00:06:06
Speaker
I like it well enough but that's a story for another day so my attachment to the series other than seeing the odds advert for something like Doom 3 and the kind of creepy imagery for that, I'm not really attached to this series as much as yourself or other fans of the franchise. So when I ended up watching this film I was a little bit detached, like I knew some of the references like the BFG, some of the monsters that come into it but
00:06:35
Speaker
Yeah, other than that, I didn't really know much about it. What were your first impressions of
Initial Impressions of Doom 2005
00:06:41
Speaker
this film? So I first saw this film, oh god, a long time, probably over 10 years ago now, I first saw this film. I used to have a DVD copy of it, so I definitely didn't say it when it came out, but I must have seen it like maybe late 2000s? I want to say like, maybe about the time that I played Doom 3, was maybe the time that I picked up the copy of it.
00:07:00
Speaker
And to be honest, I liked this film well enough. It was one that I would rewatch occasionally. It's not something I'd have on repeat, but I would probably watch it more than some other things. I kind of liked it for what it was, but then again, I wasn't particularly a huge fan of the Doom franchise at that point. I liked it for some of the action. I liked it because it had The Rock in it, and I liked action films. So it kind of fit the bill there. And then I didn't watch it though for a long, long time. This was the first time I'd watched it in like...
00:07:24
Speaker
well maybe 10 years maybe actually probably more than 10 years actually uh just over so it was interesting to go back to it you know something that i've not watched in so long i am actually trying to think of when i watched this film for the first time because there was a period of time where i started watching like really bad sci-fi films usually it was like just to have kind of background noise when i was like painting or doing something like that
00:07:49
Speaker
It might have been one of those times I watched it. I remember I went to visit our mutual friend Craigie C, who used to run a bad movie night. Were you there that night? We watched him. No, I wasn't, because I was excited to see it again, but I don't think I could make that one, so I missed out, unfortunately.
00:08:06
Speaker
I remember we watched it and it just came across as being quite boring because usually the sign of a good bad film is one like you can riff on you can talk about and you know you can actually get some content and emotion out of but for Doom it just kind of felt as if it was like oh god here we go again the same things over and over again it was just a boring experience like not the worst we've ever been through but certainly not not a great one
00:08:35
Speaker
But you know what, I think that we have been holding this. What's the portal called? Is it the Ark? The Ark. As good as right. We've been on standby to the Ark for a good while now, so will we just jump into this big CGI bubble? I really don't. It looks like the worst way to travel ever, but if we must, let's do it.
00:08:55
Speaker
Okay, so as we travel through the ark and hope that our backsides don't go to Uranus, we hope. Top quality humour on Chatsanami. I can't argue with that. It works on so many levels. Before we go into the ad break and everything, can I just say there is actually a character that happens to, but they don't make that joke. I'm like, come on, if you're going to commit to the silliness of this, just say his ass went to Uranus anyway. I'm going to move on before we get cancelled to you. Let's jump into the ark and we'll see you on Mars.
00:09:25
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami, a variety podcast that talks about topics from gaming and films to streaming in general interest. Previously on Chatsunami, we discussed Game of the Decade, Deadly Premonition, the romantic thriller, Birdemic and listen to us get all sappy as we discuss our top 5 Christmas films. If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can find us an anchor, Spotify, YouTube and all good podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome and most importantly, stay hydrated.
00:09:57
Speaker
We are Beer and Chill Podcast. Podcast where we review TV shows, games, movies and whatever else takes our fancy. So what are you waiting for? If you're a cool kid like us, you're gonna listen to the Beer and Chill Podcast. You can get it anywhere from Spotify all the way to your grandma's radio. My name is Jan. And I'm Cricky C. And we are Beer and Chill.
00:10:32
Speaker
At a distant research facility, the final 10% of the human genome has just been discovered. And with it, all hell has broken loose.
Doom 2005 Plot Summary
00:10:46
Speaker
Jesus! Never get used to that. Oh dearie me, I just had my sick bag on standby. Is that not just a sandwich bag? Oh no, my lunch!
00:10:57
Speaker
Let's jump into Doom 2005. I'm saying that because when I say Doom, people will be like, what you mean the first game? You mean 2016? You mean Doom Eternal? Enough. No such luck. If you came on this episode thinking, oh, we're going to be talking about a good Doom game. I'm so sorry.
00:11:15
Speaker
I'm sorry that you had to listen to this. But now that you're here, why don't you make a cup of tea and suffer with us? So Adam, best part of the episode. Would you like to summarise this, Phil? Oh god. So the plot of Doom takes place in, oh my god, is it like 2145? I was watching, I was looking at stuff about Doom 3 as well, so I'm worried I've got my timelines mixed up now, but let's say 2145. So the distant future. But anyway, in the future, on the planet of Mars is an archaeological dig site run by a large corporation called the UAC, United
00:11:44
Speaker
Aerospace Corporation and as the film starts we see that things have gone quite badly at this dig site and some of the scientists are getting like picked off and one of them makes a desperate attempt to call for help before he's struck down. So we then cut over to this elite military unit which I think is a marine recon unit of memory serves who are tasked with journeying to the Mars facility, recovering the scientists, recovering the UAC property and
00:12:08
Speaker
protecting the facility and preventing anything from escaping from there. So, you know, it's a kind of stock military unit. We have different people with a lot of different personalities, two main ones being Sarge, who is the unit's leader, played by The Rock, and Reaper, played by Carl Urban, who is kind of, I don't know if he's the second in command, but he almost seems like the second in command.
00:12:26
Speaker
He's a very reliable, trustworthy soldier who has a history with this particular dig site because that is where his parents died. His parents worked as scientists there. They were killed in an accident and his sister still works there. So he's not very keen to go back to the facility, but he does anyway. So the Marines journey there, they journey the facility, they transport themselves to Mars and they begin to investigate what's happened. And then they find out that this isn't a routine mission. You know, there's some serious stuff going down this facility and things really get out of hand from there.
00:12:54
Speaker
I couldn't have said it better myself. You probably could have since I spent the first five minutes messing up the dates, but thank you. Men go to Mars, shooty shooty, rooty shooty, no demons. Be more concise like you.
00:13:06
Speaker
and if you want to buy our Haiku book you
Game vs. Film: Doom 3 Adaptation
00:13:09
Speaker
can catch it on. No, not yet. One day. Not yet. As I was saying to you before we started recording, this film is a weird one because initially I came into this thinking, oh this is gonna be like our Alone in the Dark review or the Super Mario Brothers film where it could come in and be like video game film bad, hahaha. But
00:13:31
Speaker
The more I looked into this film and the kind of influences that came from other media, especially Doom 3, because I had heard that Doom 3 was a huge departure from the previous Doom games, but I didn't realise how much of a departure it was.
00:13:50
Speaker
Certainly, tonally, it's very different. I mean, the gameplay is kind of similar. It's a bit more slower paced than a lot of the other than most of the other Doom games. But still, it's very much like it is kind of run and gun and you still get a veritable arsenal of weapons to mow down the legions of hell. So in terms of that, it's still pretty much kind of sticks to the Doom format.
00:14:09
Speaker
that, but totally it's very different. It much more went into the horror, tension and suspense. That vibe, rather than the over the top action, almost a campiness that the original two games had and Doom 2016 Eternal returned to. Doom 3 is a big departure. Being at the same time, this film clearly took a lot of inspiration from that side of Doom, which makes it stand out
00:14:34
Speaker
Yeah, I was really surprised at that, because I thought this was just going to be one of those films that decided to do its own thing, which don't get me wrong, it does do its own thing, but it did it in a way that wasn't lifting any inspiration, but you can definitely tell that it was lifting things from Doom 3, which came out in, correct me if I'm wrong, but was it 2004?
00:14:54
Speaker
Yeah, it was 2004, the year before I came out on PC and then there was a port for the original Xbox which might have come out in 2005. Which a fun fact, if you bought the DVD to Doom back in the day, you could stick the disc into your Xbox and it had a demo for Doom 3. Oh, that's cool. As well, I used to have a very fun feature which I rewatched again and had a lot of fun with where a guy told you how to play Doom 3.
00:15:15
Speaker
Which is a really fun feature that you don't really see. I don't think I've ever seen anything like it before, but it was kind of fun. Especially since one of his things was don't be afraid to swear. That was one of his keys to success. I bet you has a water vanguard appearance that do.
00:15:29
Speaker
Indeed, it's why I played this at school away from there. See, one heck and that's it. Taking off you for a month. All those carefree days playing Shadow the Hedgehog on mute. Anyway. Seeing as this is quite a controversial film, not in the usual sense of it's controversial for anything serious, but seeing as it's not widely received very well, will we go into the positives first? Because I feel as if that list is probably shorter than the negatives.
00:15:59
Speaker
I do think there are some good things to this. Maybe it's as unpopular an opinion that is. I think there are some redeeming features to this. Yeah, I'll let you kick off with it. What is one of the things, or rather several things, that you find good with this film? This may sound like I'm already grasping and reaching for straws here, but having watched a lot of other bad films of a much lower quality, you begin to appreciate a film that's competently shot.
00:16:24
Speaker
This film at least is that there's none of the crazy camera angles of bardemic or anything like that You know, so it's a well put together as a well-made film, which I've begun to appreciate got older I think as well. There's a decent cast of this film You might argue it's a bit top-heavy and I think there's like there's a lot of really like great actors at the top And then you might argue it fizzles out below that but I still think the cast overall is decent I mean we have the rock we've got Carl Urban Rosamund Pike and
00:16:48
Speaker
Dexter Fletcher, though I think those are probably the main four, unless I'm blanking on anybody else. But to have those four, you're off to really good footing with your film. I wouldn't say there's any horrific acting in this film. There's obviously layers. Some people are better than others, and some people aren't great actors, I would say. But I don't think there's anybody that I'm not to be mean, but there's no tarot read here. There's no tarot read of alone in the dark here, or any of the cast of Birdemic here. I think everybody is, at the very least, semi-competent acting.
00:17:15
Speaker
For me, the special effects are mostly okay. I think a good thing is they seem to rely on quite a few, like, a lot of prosthetics, things like that, rather than, like, an over-reliance of CGI, so I think that helps. There is still some kind of bad CGI in this, but it's of its time, so I'm kind of... I can't get too mad about that, to be honest. Like, it doesn't really bother me. It's just a product of its time. But I think the fact that they relied quite a bit on more physical effects, I think, is good, so I think they were fine.
00:17:41
Speaker
the action scenes are passable in this film there's nothing that I think is a must watch I'm not gonna tell you to run to YouTube and like watch this particular scene because there's nothing there's there's no like car chase and raid 2 or anything like that in this film but I think for the most I think they're passable I think they're they're decent I didn't watch anything I was like oh god that's terrible or anything like that so those are the kind of positives I would say I think it does those things well or like decent enough at least but what about yourself
00:18:05
Speaker
Yeah, I would totally agree with that. I do think that the actors are absolutely... I don't want to say fantastic. They do a good job in this film for what they're given. Although something that made me laugh is, do you want to know a fun fact about Rosamund Pike in this film? Oh, boys. Well, apparently she did two films, I think, in the same year. She did this film and she did Pride and Prejudice. Do you want to know what film she turned down? Oh, God. Of the same time.
00:18:34
Speaker
in 2005 or around about that time. I'm taking it as a big film. It's a very big British film. Oh my god, a British film? I can't think what was it? Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. No way! Oh my god. Wow. Yep, she was meant to be Rita Skeeter. Is that the journalist, sorry? Yeah, that's the journalist too.
00:18:53
Speaker
I think she didn't really have that big of a role in the film, like she was there, but not like a huge massive kind of role compared to the books, but even still, to pass up being in Harry Potter, can you imagine that? Just being like, nah, I'll do a Doom instead. I want to fight the infected on Mars. I respect that. I'll take the small indie budget film, which was not at all big.
00:19:18
Speaker
I mean, she went back to better films like Let Me Look Through My List, Die Another Day, nope. I mean, she was a gone girl. She's great. Yeah, she was. No, she actually was. I was a great film. She's a really good actor, I do really like Rosamund. You seem to have a bit of an unfortunate, like...
00:19:34
Speaker
association with some not great films. I say earlier, I actually don't know when she began acting, so this might not be early into her career, but it's early when I first became aware of Rosamund Pike's film. Yeah, because Diana the Brave was like 2002, and then this is 2005, so not a great streak I thought was. I just like how she did this film, and did you say Pride and Prejudice? Yeah. Is that Jane Austen?
00:19:55
Speaker
Yes, as far as I know. I like that you have Jane Austen, you do Jane Austen and John Romero in one year. That's a good balance there. When are we getting to Die Katana? That's the real question. OK, you go play the first level of that. I know that I've played, but you go play the first level of that game and come back and tell me that you want to play more of it.
00:20:13
Speaker
No, I'll take your word for it. There's going to be a chance of shorts, that's all I'm saying. Unfulfilled potential, there we go. We'll be charitable. But yeah, I think that the actors are relatively serviceable in this film. I don't think anybody stands out as being terrible, as you said. There are a lot of
00:20:33
Speaker
awkward moments, for example, and again I don't mean to put all the blame in Rosman Pike because she does a good job, but there's like one particular scene where one of the soldiers is like hitting his head against like the, is that a bulletproof glass or something? I guess it's, yeah, reinforced glass at least.
00:20:51
Speaker
while he's doing that she keeps screaming every time he does that and I don't think that's her fault. I think that's just like the script said okay scream after every time he hits his head or something. It's just it's a really weird choice like of direction there but you know you've got that. There's other characters as well that's a bit iffy but we'll get into that.
Analyzing Key Performances
00:21:11
Speaker
But I mean even with The Rock he is like cheesy and hammy and over the top. He is a ham and cheese toasty in this film but my god do I love it.
00:21:21
Speaker
It's funny because he was apparently, they apparently wanted him originally to play the role of Reaper, Carl Urban character. But he was drawn more to the Sarge character and I can kind of see why because I don't think there's any like amazing characters in this film. But I think out of all of them, I think the Sarge is the most interesting and I think there's interesting things there.
00:21:40
Speaker
I just don't think the film ever really takes advantage of it. Especially towards the end, I think we get to see a much different side to The Sarge and this idea of mission first and everything and that over any kind of morality. I think it's an interesting concept the film doesn't really do much with, but I can see why he was more drawn to that character.
00:21:58
Speaker
Are you saying that his line at the very end is not one of the cinematic greats? Quite frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn. This sounds like the start of a beautiful relationship. Semper Fi, motherfucker. Are you saying that's not one of the greats? It's one of my greats. That line has always, I've not seen this film in less, I've not seen this film in over a decade, but that line has always stuck with me. Semper Fi, motherfucker. I fall to the core.
00:22:23
Speaker
How much fun does he have with that line though? He does. I don't know why. I just imagine that Scriptwriter wrote that to be this like great dramatic line that is supposed to reveal like the inner workings of the character and then The Rock just has the most amount. It just has a ton of fun with it and you know he just completely wrecks in the script. I was like, my dreams. But I'm glad he did.
00:22:45
Speaker
I mean, the only other actor I would say was underutilised was probably Carl Urban. I've seen him in other roles, you know, like he's been in Dred, and he literally wears a helmet throughout the entire film, but he's such a compelling character in that. Of course he's in The Boys, he's in Lord of the Rings. Oh so yes, the Rohan guy. I'm a huge fan of the Lord of the Rings. Who's your favourite character? The Rohan guy.
00:23:15
Speaker
Mr. Rohan. Next to Mr. Ringbearer and then in Care About The Frog That Falls. Yeah, I'm a huge Lord of the Rings fan. Yeah, he is a fantastic actor and I do feel as if in some scenes he just falls into that stereotypical gruff soldier, which a lot of these characters are stereotypes, but I feel as if for him as well because he's like the main character because that is something interesting about the film.
00:23:42
Speaker
especially for the promotional material of this film, because if you look at the poster of Doom, it's not Karl Urban at the forefront. And correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not The Rock that's like the poster child? I think, well definitely the DVD I'm sure he's on the front, but it's interesting because in the opening credits it goes and The Rock, like he's the last name to appear. I don't know, because I guess obviously the first name's big as well, but then you often feel like the last name as well is the big one, but I can actually, I'm just trying to see if I can find the poster now.
00:24:09
Speaker
As you say, look at the DVD cover, he's like right in the middle, so I imagine the poster was pretty much the same. Yeah, it's quite a strange one because you would think that he was the main character, and he is one of the main characters, but he's not THE main character, you know, he's not Reaper. I nearly forgot his name because we'll get onto that actually, but yeah.
00:24:31
Speaker
Yeah, the other thing I wanna point out as well that I thought was quite interesting, and I think I pointed it out to you when we were actually watching this film, but the fact that Rosamund Pike as well isn't a love interest in this one, because I'm gonna throw this out early, but it's an early 2000s or mid-2000s film, you know, you could easily have this character as just the bumbling damsel or the love interest or something like that.
00:24:59
Speaker
right off the bat they say, I mean technically I think they wait till the reveal quote-unquote, but they say how she's Carl Urban's sister, Reaper, that's the name. I keep forgetting Reaper.
00:25:10
Speaker
It's called Carl Urban. Carl Urban, yeah. Carl Rupert, yeah. So yeah, Carl Urban and Roseman Pike are siblings in this film. And I don't know, it's not a massive thing, it's not the kind of twist of the century or anything, but I thought that was quite a neat touch. You know, it's just it's something that they could have easily turned into, oh, I've got to get to Mars to save my wife or something. But nah, they went for the system. I don't know, I just thought that was quite an interesting take on it.
00:25:36
Speaker
It's a really good point, it's not something I'd actually considered, but you're completely right, especially if you do compare it to other films of the time, and even up to now, it would have been so easy for you to see that character being something completely different, so you're completely right in pointing that out and saying that it is something that I think the film should be praised for in not going down
Critique of Film's Execution
00:25:55
Speaker
that route. Speaking of going down a particular route, what will we talk about the negatives of this film? I suppose it's probably only fair. You can't talk about the good without the bad.
00:26:06
Speaker
got your GoPro on. I do indeed. Okay we'll be back in 14 days and then after that. As we plan it for three months.
00:26:14
Speaker
I believe that scene took 14 days. As a technical feat, I think it's really impressive. In terms of what actually came out, I'm slightly less charitable towards it, but I do think it's like a technical achievement. It's very impressive that they dedicated the time and the resources to that. For anyone who doesn't know what we're talking about, there's a particular scene in Doom where they have like a first-person shoot-em-up scene, as if it's like, oh look, it's just like the video game. Oh boy, I'm gonna get flagged for this. A bit like what the new Halo series did.
00:26:42
Speaker
And can I just say, don't age well then. This certainly hasn't aged well now. Yeah, FPS scenes and video game films. Don't do it. This is my PSA, don't do it. Display the game. If that's really what you're, if you're really wanting that first person action, then the games are available to play.
00:27:01
Speaker
Do you know, funny enough, when I put out on Twitter that we were going to review this film and do an episode on it, I got a recommendation from a fellow podcaster who was like, oh, if you want good first person action, there's like a Korean film called, I think it's The Villainess. And I don't know whether that's one of these films that it's got like a weak plot, but like amazing action, a bit like The Raid or something like that. But now I'm getting recommendations for like Korean films now out of doom. So all because of this one scene.
00:27:30
Speaker
Yeah, this is the rabbit hole that I've led my life through. Yeah, it's a strange one. We'll just go on to what we really think about this all, get out the BFG. Nuke it for more a bit. I don't know, for me, I would divide my criticisms into two broad categories. One is looking at the film as an adaptation of Doom. We'll probably go into that in a lot more detail, so I'll put that to one side for now. But looking at the negatives of it as a film, we talked about it, but the characters are so stock characters.
00:27:59
Speaker
There's nobody really here with a lot of depth or is really that much of an interesting character. They all kind of fit archetypes and they never really go beyond that. So again, you can't really get engaged with these characters because they're just cardboard cutouts in many points.
00:28:15
Speaker
There's also that thing of being an elite military unit which doesn't seem like an elite military unit because it contains people with tons of like flaws that seem and I get everybody has flaws but these people seem to have flaws that are very bad in combat situations not just for this film but for a lot of them always makes me laugh. This is another point you pointed out as well I'll let you elaborate on it but the film does try to borrow it seems from a lot of other kind of action sci-fi films I don't think it does any
00:28:39
Speaker
borrows any of those things and does them anywhere near as good as the originals. There's two particular bits I'd like to, two particular kind of specific details I'd really like to kind of rag on, on this film. The one is, so there's a kind of, as I said, this takes place in an archaeological dig, this film. And they basically like, one of the centerpiece things they've recovered is this skeletal remain of this, which they've named Lucy. And basically like, it's a skeleton of this woman and her baby. They're trying to figure out what happened to this kind of ancient civilization whose ruins they've been sort of excavating on Mars.
00:29:08
Speaker
And, you know, they found out a lot and they're like, oh, they have a 24th chromosome, which basically made them superhuman. And it's like, oh, they'd conquered all disease. And Rosamund Pipes' character is like, we're trying to figure out, we can't figure out what killed them and everything. And she's speaking to Carl Urban at this point. And she's going for it. And Rosamund Pipes is like, maybe old age. And Carl Urban takes a look at, like, the skeletal remains of Lucy and is like, you don't try and shield your baby from old age. And we get a look at Lucy and it's just like screaming and like with her hands out, like trying to protect your baby. And I was like, I could have figured out that it probably wasn't old age. And she's like, no, old age.
00:29:38
Speaker
just stay away from my baby don't take us. And it's like, I just, that makes me laugh because it's so stupid. And then the second bit is the nano walls. And so there's a big bit here where because this is the future, you know, we have to have some kind of crazy scientific tech. So they have these things called nano walls that are basically, they look like a wall when you see it, but you hit a button, it turns like translucent and you can pass through it. And one of the, one of the soldiers says a big thing, he doesn't do nano walls, doesn't like going through them and everything. And
00:30:04
Speaker
Yeah, we kind of see why later on. But can I just say, I think nano walls are one of the stupidest things I've ever seen in a sci-fi film. I do not understand why you would need to make a nano wall. We have a thing called a glass door, you know, and you can get reinforced glass and bulletproof glass. Why would you need a nano wall? Like, if anybody is developing nano walls right now, stop.
00:30:23
Speaker
I'll tell you right now, that is the biggest waste of money I've ever heard of. So that irritates me because I think the idea is stupid. What about you? I'll tell you as well, this is not really a film for animal lovers. So if you're an animal lover, maybe, maybe give this one a miss because yeah, animals don't generally come out well in this film. But what about yourself? That's not me. What are the negatives?
00:30:41
Speaker
Well, can I just say you explained your hatred of nano walls so much better than the actual character in this film that hates nano walls. This is something I was ranting to you about, but there's a guy in the particular squad who's like, I hate nano walls. And he never elaborates. It's literally that meme of walks in, says some stupid shit, leaves without elaborating. And I was like, why do you hate nano walls?
00:31:05
Speaker
walls. And then there's a scene where the, I can't remember, it's like this infected. I was about to call him a zombie or a demon, god forbid. But there's a scene where he's running away from it and he jumps in and they close the narrow wall. I know, it's so stupid. They close the narrow wall and it freezes the thing in between the narrow wall and
00:31:26
Speaker
the corridor outside so it's frozen in place. And then the guy turns round and he goes, this is why I hate nanowalls. It's like, that nanowall just saved your life, you ungrateful bitch. I genuinely, unless I've missed a scene like any Doom 2005 enthusiast out there, if I've genuinely missed a critical piece of information there, please let me know because I just, he really haven't. I find right in saying that, that he never clarifies why he hates nanowalls.
00:31:52
Speaker
No, I guess it's meant to be implied that if you could get trapped in them, which is another reason why nanowalls are so stupid. I know you can maybe get trapped in a door as well, but no. There's a bit later on where they're trying to close a nanowall to stop all these zombies getting through, and the nanowall breaks, and they're like, oh no, the nanowall's broken. I'm like, oh man, what could have solved this? A door?
00:32:15
Speaker
you could just close with your hands that would have solved all these problems but no we're in the future but no you're completely right hey so it's one of these things and you kind of think like oh i bet he's gonna go like i was again i'd completely forgotten like what happened to this particular character so i was like all right he's gonna go through the nanowall at some point something's gonna be hiding because he can't see properly because your division's all distorted because it's not even properly translucent the nanowalls
00:32:36
Speaker
it was stupid. I thought, are you gonna get killed there and that's where we're gonna find out he doesn't like nanowalls. But as you say, his life is saved by a nanowall, so come on dude, gratitude. I don't get it. It just seems like a weird scene. But going back to something you brought up there about the characters, these characters genuinely do feel like they are just stock soldier characters out of an 80s action film. You know, like your Predator, your Aliens, things like that.
00:33:05
Speaker
And I don't mean that as like an insult to like aliens, predator, that kind of thing, but what I mean is, you know what I mean, if you watch these films and you get these stereotypes of, I'm the buff one who doesn't think situations through. Oh look at me, I'm the religious one. Oh look at me, I'm the pervert. Yeah he's just a straight, like literally they get to Mars and he's like, oh ladies I've got the strips there too and you're like,
00:33:29
Speaker
Oh, why? And then when he's talking about his leave, he's like, oh, I'm going away with just me, a hotel room, a bottle of, I don't know, I said bourbon or some alcohol. He says, three ladyboys, I'm like, why are you starting a Doom film with these characters? Why? What am I supposed to feel like? Oh no, not Portman. See, he's not even one of the first characters to die off. The whole point of a character like that is make him as unlikable as possible, then kill him off. But no, he survives to nearly the end.
00:33:58
Speaker
I think yeah he's certainly in the mid-range can I just say as well I love how Dexter Fletcher's character like Pinky watches Portman clearly getting like attacked by a demon by a demon or whatever I'm sorry not uninfected and just like just laugh and then somebody's like if he's important no I can't see Portman I'm like wow I mean I know he's not a great character but still come on dude
00:34:17
Speaker
I did laugh at that as well, I thought that sounded amazing. Yeah, can we talk about Pinky quote-unquote? Yeah, let's go for it. In the games, Pinky is like a nickname for these like huge ball cake creatures that charge at you and you can't shoot them from the front so you have to like dive out the way and you see like they've got a small tail and you shoot them from the back, like I'm honestly terrible at description but seriously go Google it to see what I mean. But then, and is it right to say that Doom 3 was the one that they tried to reinvent Pinky?
00:34:46
Speaker
yeah they kind of they did change most of the enemies most of the enemies from the classic games but the pinky demon was the one that certainly i think got the most radical revamp it's the one that if you looked at the pictures together you i don't think you'd be able to tell they were supposed to be the same monster because it hasn't the pinky demons of the original doom games and then of like the 2016 and eternal like have horror they're bipedal and they like you know they stand on two legs and they've got like arms they've got a tail as you say and then they've got like a
00:35:12
Speaker
horns. The Pinky Demon on Doom 3 and this film has no horn. It looks like, it almost has like the alien head from like the alien films and then it has a robotic wheels at the back, which makes sense in this film. We understand why, you know, once you watch this film, why it has that particular one, but I don't think it's ever explained in Doom 3 why they have that particular makeup, but yeah, it's a strange one.
00:35:34
Speaker
Do you know what it reminds me of? Have you ever seen that picture online where it's the Blobfish? That's exactly what it is. Just look up a Blobfish. I don't know if that's the scientific name, but yeah, just look up. It's something pinky in this film.
00:35:52
Speaker
other characters again they're all like very stereotypical. You've got the religious character who initially really you made a very good point here saying that they're not good soldiers because you've got a religious character who is very devout and having like a religious character is a new thing in these kind of films but whenever this particular character, I think his name's Gope, isn't it? Yeah it's Gope.
00:36:16
Speaker
he ends up taking the Lord's name in vain, he says oh god damn it or something and he says I've taken the Lord's name in vain and they start carving a cross into his arm and it's like putting your hand up in orientation like should we be sending soldiers who self-arm themselves into these like
00:36:33
Speaker
combat zones. I don't mean he's doing it out of any PTSD or anything. This just seems to be a regular thing for him. He's just like, oh, I'm going to carve a cross in my arm. It's like, this seems like a very poor tactical team that you want rescuing you. Because I mean, you've got him, you've got the pair of hair, you've got the, I can't remember the other guy, the one who flirts with Rosamund Pike. Oh, oh yeah. I should have forgotten his name. That's terrible. I know who you mean there, but I've actually forgotten... What is his name?
00:36:59
Speaker
That is honestly the bad thing about this film, because genuinely I was having a really bad time trying to remember them, because I was remembering them for the kind of stereotypes that they came with. Like, oh, the religious one, the pair of hair, Carl Orban, they're wrong. The two other guys, the one who plays, oh, it's not a Game Boy, but you know the, he plays... Yeah, whatever. Like, something he's saying pre Game Boy type, you know?
00:37:25
Speaker
then you've got the other one who's like the charismatic one who I have to admit out of all of them I did like him the most well other than the rock obviously but out of the school at the one who's like there's a particular scene where he's talking to Karl Urban and he's like damn how'd you let a fine piece of ass like that get away and then he kind of grumbles and he goes oh she's my sister and he's like oh no shit it's like Jesus Christ it's just dripping in like mid 2000s dialogue but I thought okay that got a chuckle out of me but other
00:37:55
Speaker
Other than that, for a film like this, you would expect something like, and again, not every film has to be the read, but you know that way where you have to have like a small core cast that kind of travel through together. I feel as if they split them off far too much in this film. You know, there's like literally a scene where they try to shoot up a monkey because it's like in their afters, and you're like, oh, okay.
00:38:18
Speaker
and then there's like another scene where they chase something down the corridor but they lose it or something and there's like the action music is like and then they shoot the guy that's like oh okay that was it like very anticlimactic but yeah what did you think of that yeah it's that thing like if you're going to if you want us to invest in characters and kind of keep track you have to give us reasons to invest in these characters and i don't think
00:38:40
Speaker
Outside of the Rock and Carl Urban, because they get all the screen time, they're the only ones that we might semi-invest in. Eve really said you're going to have to build up these characters and flesh them out, or else you're going to have to do what films like Aliens and The Raid do, where you have a large unit or squad going in. They basically all get killed early on, so we don't have to worry about getting invested and keeping track of characters.
00:39:01
Speaker
Because it becomes, you're right, it becomes difficult to remember who's where and who's who, you know, at points, because they are split up. And this film is very dark, like, and I mean that in terms of lighting, it's kind of difficult sometimes to instantly tell who characters are at a glance. You're like, who's with who again? And where are they in this facility? And what's, what are they doing again? On that level, I totally get it, it fails. And they're not memorable characters really, you know, outside of their quirks. You said you remember go cutting himself and you remember Portman for dying on the toilet and being a creep and things like that. But
00:39:29
Speaker
said the film doesn't give you a reason to really care about the bulk of these characters and even even the ones that it tries to you don't really care that much about because they're not they're just stock characters. I decided just as you were talking there sorry to look up the names of these characters there is Duke and Destroyer but then there's also another character that I completely forgot about called Mac.
00:39:52
Speaker
I feel bad because he really doesn't get a lot to do, like he stays with Pinky and then now I remember he's like tasked to protect Pinky, is he not? Yeah. And like kind of protect the ark and everything and I don't know, would you say that, see if this was like a smaller team of I don't know even five people, would you say it would have been a bit better?
00:40:13
Speaker
I definitely, I probably would have put it down to what's the, um, I'm trying to think of like, I'm going to use aliens as the reference here. How many people end up, because obviously it's a relatively big, it's a bigger squad that goes in the start of the film, but then they all kind of spoilers for aliens here, but most of them get taken out like fairly early on. So you're left with, is it six?
00:40:29
Speaker
altogether. I mean, but that includes people like, that includes Ripley as well, who's a well-established character. So, you know, the very least the audience have some built up, they've seen the first film, you know, have some built up attachment to her character. But I think it's like, is it like four soldiers, maybe you survive? Something like that. It's quite a low number. Yeah. Yeah. So I think a number like that, like four or five, I think five, you're right, would be a maximum because
00:40:52
Speaker
This film isn't that long either, so at the end of the day, it's trying to also build up the story of what's happened on Mars and what are these creatures and what were the archaeologists and UAC doing it. There's a lot of different threads, with a relatively, was it like an hour 40 or something like that, I think, maybe the film? Maybe even less. About that runtime, there's just not enough time to flesh these characters out, so if you really want to do that, you've got to make it a smaller mountain.
00:41:16
Speaker
Even I think with 5 you'd still be struggling, but you'd be in a better shape to do it. I mean, it's difficult as well because the Doom games are basically solo characters. You know, Doom Marine, Doomguy, Doom Slayer, whatever you want to call them, is basically a lone protagonist throughout all the majority of the games. Even in Doom 3 where it's not the Doom Marines, it's a new character because their game was like a reboot and
00:41:38
Speaker
I don't think it really fits into the chronology. I think some people have tried to put it into the main chronology, but let's just say, far away, it's just a separate thing that doesn't. It was an attempted reboot that's been, like, that timeline's been forgotten now. Even that character is, like, he's a new marine who arrives at the Mars facility in the game. He's on his own, basically the whole game. That's what the Doom games are, so already trying to put a team, you're kind of going against what the games are. Can I just say, see, despite looking up all those characters and saying, oh, we forgot about Duke Destroyer and, um, Mac.
00:42:07
Speaker
Forgot about another one, the kid. The most incompetent of the squad. But that's the thing though, it's almost as if they want as many stereotypes in. And usually for a film like this, I just double checked as well, the runtime, this is an hour 53. Oh wow.
00:42:22
Speaker
I don't know if they're looking to do like a kind of aliens predator kind of thing where they want to kill them off one by one, but they take their sweet damn time with it. Let's just say they really do. You're just lying there thinking, okay, when's this character going to die? When's this character going to die? You're like, oh, here we go,
Failings as a Game Adaptation
00:42:40
Speaker
here we go. It's just, it's a slow look at times when they talk about the lore and this ancient civilization. They're like, what, you mean demons from hell? Of course they're ancient. No, no, no, no, infected aliens.
00:42:52
Speaker
Okay, let's go through this again and try and pretend we care about this lore. And then Carl Urban gets superpowers, whereas The Rock, as we said, Sempify brother truckers, jumps down and is like, oh, that's fine. And you're like, okay, fair enough. If this will end the film sooner than fair enough. But I honestly wouldn't say, though, that this film is entirely without good things. It's a film that definitely suffers both hosing up
00:43:22
Speaker
like the name of Doom as well as having all these stereotypical characters, quite a poor script and things like that. But here's the question, here's the big question that you and I were discussing before. Do you think this film would have been better as just a film in its own right without the Doom name?
00:43:41
Speaker
I think undoubtedly. I kind of agree with you. I think, as I said, I think this is like a below average serviceable action film by itself. So I'd probably give it like a four out of 10 or something like that if it was just on that regard. But the fact that it's tied to the Doom name really drags it down.
00:43:56
Speaker
because honestly, if you take this film and compare it to basically most of the games in the Doom canon, like the 90s game, the 2010s, the game of the 2010s, the 2020s, there's nothing here. I mean, the BFGs there, some of the monster designs are similar. Also on Mars, that's really the UAC. That's really all there is. Totally it's completely different to what those games are. The Doom Slayer is nowhere in sight. It's just completely so we can't really compare them. And if we're comparing it to that, then this is an absolute failure as an adaptation.
00:44:26
Speaker
However, you know, as we said, this came out the same time as Doom 3 and it's what this game, sorry, it's what this film was kind of modelled on. As an adaptation of Doom 3, it's a lot better. And personally, I think if you're going to make, like, if you're wanting to adapt one of the Doom games, I think Doom 3 is really the only one. I just don't think the early Doom games or the kind of later ones work.
00:44:43
Speaker
Mostly because I think the character the Doom Slayer is just is not made for film. It's made for a game. That's what that character is made for. But Doom 3 was a game that had a lot more emphasis on narrative, a lot more cut scenes, you know, kind of fleshed out characters. So it's one that would work if you wanted to adapt it into a film. This game takes elements of it. I think it would have been better if it followed more closely to the Doom 3 storyline.
00:45:05
Speaker
You know, there are some things there, you know, like some of the monster designs are quite similar, as we've said. There's the weapons. They kind of get the atmosphere. One thing Doom 3 was known for was like low lighting and dark because the flashlight was a big part of the original game. The film kind of plays on that a bit. There's a bit in the sewers where goat's carriage's flashlight goes out and that feels very much like something inspired by the game Doom 3. But even as an adaptation of Doom 3, it fails. I mean, and forgive the pun here, but the biggest sin of this is the fact that there's no mention of hell.
00:45:33
Speaker
There's no mention at all that we joked, you joked about in the beginning. There's no mention that these are demons. The only time Hell is mentioned is when I think when Carla was like, go to Hell to the Rock at the end. And that's a core element of every single Doom game. Even Doom 3, you went to Hell and it was clear that there was like a Hell gate that was being opened and these demons are pouring for him not to have that. I don't know why the decision was made not to do that.
00:45:53
Speaker
It just suffers. It makes it a terrible adaptation for that. As well, like, there's the BFG but none of the other weapons are used, you know, none of the other weapons have any kind of relation to the Doom weapons. There's a chainsaw at one point, I guess, so you've got that at least. The armour looks completely different, they're wearing very much kind of black, sort of like stereotypical military uniforms, while the Doom armour is known for being like green, you know, kind of more brighter colours and more bulky. The monsters, there's a couple of monsters there, like the Pinky Demon, the Imps, the Zombies, there's a Hell Knight.
00:46:22
Speaker
No one don't really act like the imps are in the Doom games are known for like darting around and throwing fireballs like in this game They're like bigger zombies They're just like lunge and charging people and trying to you know infect them whatever and again We don't get any of there's nothing like there's no lost souls. There's no kaka demons There's none of these other like great monsters that are in the Doom series
00:46:40
Speaker
It just really fails as an adaptation for me. As much as it borrows some surface-level elements from the game series, especially from Doom 3, and it borrows a bit of the tone of Doom 3, it completely fails to get any of the core aspects of either Doom 3 or the series. The fact that it has this name of Doom and it's tied to the series really brings it down. If I was rating it a 4 out of 10 as a film by itself, it goes down to at least a 3 just because it's so tied to Doom game, because it's a bad adaptation.
00:47:08
Speaker
an interesting thing though because this is relating to another film that we've talked about on this podcast Starship Troopers which apparently that started out quite similar where it actually wasn't going to be Starship Troopers, there was going to be like
00:47:24
Speaker
I kind of remember the name but it was something very generic where they attacked a bug planet and there was going to be all of that and then eventually they got the rights to Starship Troopers and they made it their own thing and don't get me wrong although that has its own controversies and things like that around the book and the source material. At least that kind of made something that was very impactful, it's memed upon, you know it's like it's something that people remember
00:47:48
Speaker
But with Doom, it's almost the complete opposite of that. It's like something that went right into Doom to be like, oh, we are Doom. We've got the BFG and we've got demons. We've got the hell. What's it called? The Hell Knight? It's a Hell Knight, which is like the really big one. You know, the one that like Destroyer fights in the prison bit.
00:48:08
Speaker
Yeah, you've got them, you've got, I mean, Pinky a stretch, let's face it. Yeah, you've not really got many other, like, as you said, they completely changed it from demons to infected and I don't know why. Did you come across the reason why they did this kind of thing or...?
00:48:25
Speaker
I can't see a reason why. I mean, I did read something just there talking about the original script had some more of the monsters, things like the Kakademon, which is the floating monster, the big kind of floating ball that has like one eye. If you know that monster is quite a famous one from the Doom games. It originally had the script had monsters like that, but they were cut for like budgetary and time reasons, which I can understand that in fairness. I know some of these monsters would be more difficult to create and they might, with the effects of 2005, they might end up looking really
00:48:49
Speaker
bad so you know I suppose there is that but to ask you first question I don't get why I can't see any reason why this was changed to be but I'm trying to think but 2005 had that film Constantine which took a large part that took place in hell from what I recall at least it was heaven and hell were big parts of that film so it wasn't like it wasn't like this was like unexplored territory in 2005 and we had really Rosemary's baby 30 years before I don't get why these felt that this didn't have this which is such a core element it's one of the things you think of
00:49:16
Speaker
You always think of the legions of hell and going to hell in these Doom games, because that was such a core part of it. Not to have that, I think, is the biggest failing of this as an adaptation. I can see no reason why they did it. Maybe budgetary reasons, maybe they thought creating hell environments would be too difficult, too expensive, not enough time. And again, I can sympathise with that, but it doesn't take away the fact that that makes it fail as an adaptation.
00:49:37
Speaker
Maybe, and this is me purely speculating here, but maybe it was to make it more palatable for audiences perhaps? Like selling hell to audiences that is not a horror film but then again as you said Constantine came out at the exact same time so it's like
00:49:56
Speaker
If that film's sailing and Doom is... Do you know what it reminds me of? It's like if you brought out a reboot of The Exorcist, but instead of having demons and things like that, you had zombies. Mmm, exactly. You know, it's like, oh no, my daughter's a zombie, instead of being possessed. And you'd be like, well, you're...
00:50:13
Speaker
kind of missing the point here. Like my daughter was injected with a scientific serum and now she's become a zombie and it's like well no it's not no that's not what the exercise was. I mean look at my hamster it died of old age and you just see it like with the twisted face
00:50:28
Speaker
Although I'll look for this nanowall to get to my kitchen. There doesn't seem to be a core reason as far as I know. I mean, if anybody's listening to this episode and you know the reason, please feel free to reach out to us and let us know because I don't want to be like, oh, this film's terrible because they don't have the demons and things, because don't get me wrong, it's a massive failing on the creators part that they didn't include demons and things like that. And don't get me wrong, I'm not pro Helen films or anything like that, but
00:50:56
Speaker
you have such a core concept like that and you don't include it in your film and I don't get it, I really don't. So honestly if you know the reason and you're listening to this please feel free to reach out to us and let us know because I know there are people who are fans of this film and to get some kind of enjoyment to it. So I'm not saying like oh people who like this film should be ashamed or anything, absolutely not. If you enjoy this film I'll power to you. But there are questionable things, I'm not gonna lie,
00:51:23
Speaker
There are some moments where you're just like, why did they do this? Why did they do that? But to kind of wrap up, do you have any final thoughts, Adam? I kind of look at this film in two ways. I look at it as a film by itself and I look at it as an adaptation. And as I said, looking at it as a film, I don't think it's that bad. I think it's wholly unredeemable.
00:51:42
Speaker
There's good stuff in here, there's stuff that I think, there's stuff that's not great, but it's not terrible. That's why I said, like, I think it's just a slightly below average, serviceable film, and I think you can, I can understand people watching this and getting enjoyment, because I used to get, like, a level of enjoyment out of this when I was younger. It wasn't my favourite film by any stretch, but I used to enjoy, you know, rewatching it at points and everything, so I can completely understand that.
00:52:01
Speaker
And I think as well, perhaps if you're not as invested or as interested in the Doom kind of game series, then it probably helps, to be honest. I think it's as I became a bigger fan of the games that I can't watch this now and not move that part, you know? And I look at it and I'm like, oh, it's not a good adaptation. That's the thing with being a fan of something.
00:52:19
Speaker
like that, but as an adaptation, it's not good. It's bad. I think it's one of the worst game adaptations purely for that respect. But if we were to compare it to a film that we looked at a while back in The Lone in the Dark, Doom, I think it's an okay film by itself. I think being an adaptation is what really hurts it. While with something like The Lone in the Dark, I don't personally think that was a good film to begin with, but it doesn't matter if it was trying to be an adaptation of The Lone in the Dark game. Take that out, it's still a bad film in my eyes.
00:52:46
Speaker
with Doom, I think if you did strip away the Doom stuff and made it something, called it something else, you kept that
Would Doom Work Without the Branding?
00:52:51
Speaker
same plot. I think it's fine. I think it's serviceable. Like I said, not great, but I've seen a lot worse. So it's just a shame that being an adaptation I think is what really like, for me personally, what really just brings this film down and sours it. It is a shame though, because as we established before, the film does have the star power there. And for the most part, the core circle with like Carl Orban, The Rock, Rosamund Pike,
00:53:16
Speaker
Are there any other famous actors on the first gate? Are there any other famous actors on the first gate? Are there any other famous actors on the first gate? Are there any other famous actors on the first gate? Are there any other famous actors on the first gate? Are there any other famous actors on the first gate? Are there any other famous actors on the first gate? Are there any other famous actors on the first gate? Are there any other famous actors on the first gate? Are there any other famous actors on the first gate? Are there any other famous actors on the first gate? Are there any other famous actors on the first gate? Are there any other famous actors on the first gate? Are there any other famous actors on the first gate? Are there any other famous actors on the first gate? Are there any other famous actors on the first gate? Are there any other famous actors on the first gate? Are there any other famous actors on the first gate? Are there any other famous actors on the first gate? Are there any other famous actors on the first gate? Are there any other
00:53:40
Speaker
Oh yeah, ha ha, infected people with Mars, you know. It's not the best, now we'll see. It's not the best, but I can see why some people enjoy this, even if it's a guilty pleasure, even if you think nobody else loves this film, but I do. I mean, that's fine. All we'll see is at least it's not a newbie bowl film. If it's a newbie bowl film, yeah, you would have an awkward talk with your parents, I would say. Believe it or not, I don't think this is even the worst Doom film that there was another one released
00:54:08
Speaker
2019. I've not seen it, but from what I understand it may be worse. See, I just learned that when I was looking up this film, I just learned that there was a second Doom film. I also learned that there was a, I think it was an Indian film called Doom 3, spelled D-H-O-O-M 3. And I was like, why aren't we reviewing this film? This looks great!
00:54:32
Speaker
But no, we were stuck with the Rock and Carl are booing the Rosman Bay. It's like, ugh. You can see where they took the inspiration from, and it's kind of a shame. Here's one final question for you though. Let's say they based this off like an earlier Doom game, or Doom 3 was more like Doom 2016 or more like the originals. Do you think this film would have came out better? Honestly, no.
00:54:57
Speaker
I think it might have been worse. To me, those film, sorry, those Doom games, I can't see how you would adapt them. The Doom Slayer, Doom Guy, whatever you want to call them, is one of my favourite video game characters, but the guy barely offers anything other than rip and tear at points. He's not a fleshed out character at all.
00:55:13
Speaker
And I know that action films have done that, but even like protagonist in action films have some level of development. You can't do that with the Doomsayer because that would go against the only thing he does is wants to kill demons, basically. That's what makes him a great character for a video game and stuff, you know, and he's one dimensional in every way, but it works.
00:55:30
Speaker
Well, for me, it works anyway for the games. I just don't see how you translate that into a film, because then you'd have to start looking for other ways to bring it up. And something like Doom Eternal, which tried to flesh out a lot more lore, I don't think anybody's favourite part of Doom... Well, maybe it's somebody's, but generally I don't think people's favourite part of Doom Eternal is all the lore that's around that.
00:55:50
Speaker
And so you'd have to try and do that, I think, for a film, because it works as a game, but I don't see how those, especially those early games, I have no idea. You get like three paragraphs of text, you know, that's the story. It's about the whole of Doom 1 and Doom 2, so they wouldn't work as adaptations, so I think it would be of anything.
00:56:05
Speaker
worse. I think it would end up being a really bad action film and you'd have to use a lot of CGI. We're talking 2005 standards, I think it would be a film that aged horribly by now. As I said, I think Doomfry is the only game that I think you could actually make a film adaptation of because there's a strong narrative
00:56:25
Speaker
with other characters as well, you know, and it's a much more... because the character in Doom 3, the main protagonist, is like a new Marina stuff, he's not the Doom Slayer. You could like flesh that character out a lot. I just... I don't see how you do the other Doom games, honestly. Because initially I was thinking that if fans got what they wanted with the BFG firing more than twice and actually hitting something and, you know, no nano walls. Although, am I right in saying there was a keycard scene in this film? That's a good point. Is there a keycard?
00:56:55
Speaker
I think I'm pretty sure at the very beginning the guy brings out his keycard and I thought, because that's what I want in a Doom adaptation, the keycards. That's too easy to find that keycard as well, you need to need to properly like scour the level to find it. Exactly, he was playing in baby mode. If they did adapt the old games then it might turn out a bit like what Super Mario Bros turned out
00:57:19
Speaker
like, you know, because at the time Super Mario Bros didn't have a rich and deep lore. You know, don't get me wrong, it doesn't really have a huge lore just now, but it has a bigger lore and you know, it has more stories than it used to. So I don't know if the Doom would have suffered the same
00:57:34
Speaker
So I can see why they focus more on something like Doom 3, because I mean it's not officially confirmed I don't think, but it's clear to see they took inspiration from Doom 3 out of all the games. Doom 3 was like one of the top ones that they said, yeah we could take Pinkie from this, we could take the kind of gritty action from it.
00:57:54
Speaker
I think that's what they showed the kind of film producer executives, like the executives for the universe. I think that's what they showed. They showed like some of Doom 3 as like a way to be like, would you want to like make a film based on this? As I said, like I can see why because it is the one with the strongest narrative in that sense and the most like the easiest narrative to adapt into a film while the other games to be just don't have
Why Doom 3's Narrative Fits Better
00:58:15
Speaker
that. They don't have that ready made kind of narrative that you could put into a film and flesh it out a little bit.
00:58:19
Speaker
Would you say that Doom is, and don't worry this is the final question, but would you say this ranks as one of the worst video game adaptations of all time?
00:58:31
Speaker
Sadly, I think it does have to be down at the bottom. You could argue, if we're strictly looking at it as an adaptation, because I don't think if we're looking at it as a film, I think there's a lot worse, but if we're looking at it strictly as an adaptation, it's down there with things like Super, and I love the Super Mario Bros. film, but it's a bad adaptation. There's no denying that.
00:58:49
Speaker
alone in the dark as well obviously, the terrible adaptation as well as a terrible film. Even films that I think aren't good like the newer Tomb Raider films or even Prince of Persia, things like that, I think they're better adaptations at the very
Doom vs. Other Game Adaptations
00:59:03
Speaker
least. I think they're stronger in that regard. I think it's not even so much that it doesn't include some of the weapons and the monsters, it just doesn't really get the tone that much and
00:59:13
Speaker
I think it's a shame because part of it is it was so tied to Doom 3, which is kind of the odd one out now in the Doom canon. And it's kind of as much I think people have tried to put it into the chronology. It's kind of been written out because Doom 2016 kind of took over from Doom 2 and kind of skipped Doom 3. So it's just a shame for that. But yeah, as an adaptation, it's near the bottom. It's not good.
00:59:33
Speaker
I would agree with that. I would say that it's definitely not the worst out there. As I've said many times in the podcast, Oovey Bowl films exist, you've got all of the other terrible adaptations out there of video games, we have the Super Mario Bros. film which as you said although you can get some kind of enjoyment out of it, you still have that issue of it not being a good adaptation. So it's just a shame that this film
00:59:59
Speaker
as we said before if this film was just its own separate thing it would have just kind of quietly died out into mediocrity or obscurity and some people would bring it up and be like oh check out this funny film but because it's attached to the Doom name it's always going to live in infamy of what it is because it's carrying the branding of Doom.
01:00:20
Speaker
and that is
Closing and Tease for the 100th Episode
01:00:21
Speaker
totally not like an invite for us to then move on to the Halo TV series, but I'm sure we'll talk about that one day. Seems likely. Jokes aside, Adam, thank you so much for, yeah, enduring this film again and reviewing it with me. No, well thank you for reminding me of a memory from my past. As I said, it's been a long time since I'd seen this and it was interesting to go back to, you know, it didn't hold up as well as it might have hoped, but you know what, it was interesting to go back to at least, so once again my pleasure.
01:00:49
Speaker
Well, if you enjoyed it, that's the main thing. Maybe I wanna go play some Doom, so at the very least, he did that, so.
01:00:57
Speaker
As always, thank you all so, so much for listening to this episode. If you want to catch more of our content, you can check us out on Spotify, iTunes, YouTube, and of course our Podpage website under the name Chatsanami. So just look for the red panda and we will see you there. But until then, thank you for listening. And yeah, next week we are going to be doing our 100th episode of the podcast. Adam, are you excited?
01:01:23
Speaker
I am very excited. Once again, I can't believe we're at the Big 100. So as I said, as I joked, well as I said, as I joked, also seriously stated a few episodes ago, I look forward to our letter from the Queen as we mark this momentous milestone. But yeah, I'm very excited. Honestly, I would just accept Marmalade sandwich from Paddington at this point. In fact, I think I prefer that.
01:01:44
Speaker
Certainly, yeah, I can see why. Hopefully it doesn't get posted to us. That's all I'm saying. Because, yeah, it's either gonna get eaten by a hungry male man, or it's just gonna go off, so... Ugh, a disgusting, like, sludge that comes through the fucking box. Oh god. See, it's not even wrapped up. Those damn kids again. They're Marmalade sandwiches. But as always guys, we will see you next week for the 100th episode. But until then, stay safe, stay awesome, and most importantly, stay hydrated.