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Episode 31: Natalie Franke - Growing a Platform
152 Plays6 years ago
Today’s guest is Natalie Franke Hayes of the Rising Tide Society. This is an exciting episode because it brings me back to the very first podcast I was ever a part of, The Coffee Commute, which I actually started with Natalie. Natalie is an entrepreneur, mobilization marketer, community builder, neuroscience nerd, and of course, she’s one of the co-founders of the Rising Tide Society, alongside myself, Krista and her husband Huey. She’s also the head of community at HoneyBook.
Natalie and I chat about growing a platform, which is something she has successfully done across so many life transitions. We talk about how she’s been able to do this so effectively and advice she has for others also trying to grow a platform.
For more resources and show notes, check out https://daveyandkrista.com/btb-natalie-franke-episode-31.
Recommended
Transcript
Building a Strong Platform Foundation
00:00:05
Speaker
the key here and the thing I've learned, and I think I knew it from day one, is that a platform is only as good as its foundation.
00:00:12
Speaker
And when you build a foundation for your platform that is solely on the craft, meaning it's only about design, or it's only about photography, or it's only about the product you create, and that's it. Just about the product, nothing else. Then the minute that shifts or changes, the audience doesn't have any ties or connections to anything else, and you do have to hit reset.
Introduction to the Podcast and Guest
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Truthfully, at that point, you would have to hit reset.
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Welcome to the Brands at Book Show, where we help creative, service-based businesses build their brands and find more clients. I'm your host, Davy Jones.
00:00:54
Speaker
Today's guest is Natalie Frank Hayes of the Rising Tide Society. And this is an exciting episode because it brings me back to the very first podcast I was ever a part of, The Coffee Commute, which I actually started with Natalie. Natalie is an entrepreneur, mobilization marketer, community builder, neuroscience nerd, and of course, she's one of the co-founders of the Rising Tide Society, alongside myself, Krista, and her husband, Huey.
Growing a Platform Through Life Transitions
00:01:18
Speaker
And she's also the head of community at HoneyBook.
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Speaker
Today, Natalie and I chat about growing a platform, which is something she has successfully done across so many life transitions. We talk about how she has been able to do this so effectively, and advice she has for others also trying to grow a platform. But before we get to the episode, if you're revisiting your website this season, we have stuff for you to check out. We are hosting a website giveaway that you can enter until the end of the month. You can find the details on our site at giveaway.daveyandchrista.com.
00:01:49
Speaker
Be sure to check out the show notes at daevianchrista.com for the resources we mentioned during the episode, and I'd like to hear from you about what kind of content you'd like to see on the Brands of Book podcast as we move forward. I'd also like to know what episodes you've enjoyed most so far and why. To leave your feedback, head on over to the Davian Christa Facebook page and send us a message.
Podcast Challenges and Lessons Learned
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Speaker
Now, on to the episode.
00:02:15
Speaker
Welcome Natalie to the show. I'm really excited about this episode because as we were just talking about, we've done this before, you know, this is like a coffee commute reunion episode. I know I'm having a little bit of like a throwback moment of when we first launched a podcast that I called like the two week adventure. It was like a two week podcast. But we did it. We did it. And then you have had so much success with this podcast. And you've just like taken brands a book to a whole new level. So
00:02:43
Speaker
It's exciting to be on and actually get to see you and connect with you like this, which we've done before. It's really, really crazy. Yeah, you know, it was a blast doing the coffee commute. I look back at, you know, there are some elements like poor timing, you know, it was one of those things where we decided to start it and then Krista and I had stepped down from RTS probably a month after we ended up starting it. The other thing that we decided to do, which in hindsight was just a poor decision, was we committed to everyday episodes. Do you remember that?
00:03:12
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Well, you know, we go big, we go big, Davey. We're not, you know, none of us are underachievers here. So when we set our mind to do it, we were like, every day, we're going to make it happen. But that's like, that is a learning you have, right? When you launch something or you start a business, you learn very quickly that the dreams we have and sometimes the ideas we have and the execution are very separate, which is why you and Krista are the perfect pair because you're like me and we dream really big and Krista is
00:03:38
Speaker
you know, making sure that things get executed, she's operation brilliance, you know, but we definitely let our dream run a little crazy with the everyday recording of an episode. Oh, yeah, for sure. And I think in that in that case, it was, you know, Krista just unfortunately being outnumbered, you know, and I was being like, No, yeah, we can totally handle doing this every day. And in hindsight, I mean, even even doing it once
Importance of Audience Connection
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a week,
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is a chore in terms of just a workload that goes into producing an episode. But anyways, I'm so glad to have you on the podcast. I think I've improved since then in terms of just question asking and monitoring a conversation or pacing a conversation, but we'll see. And we have so much to chat about today. I think primarily what we're going to dive into is growing a platform, which is something that you've done so successfully over so many different transitions.
00:04:26
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and we'll get to talk about some of those transitions. I guess that's a good place to start. You just announced you're having a baby boy.
Life Transitions and Professional Balance
00:04:34
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We are. We're joining the boy club here with all of our friends. We've had so many boys in the group lately.
00:04:41
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And we're just so excited. I mean, Huey and I cannot wait. I know. And I feel like statistically, like it's more likely, right? I mean, it's like 5150 girls, the girls, the guys, you know, but it seems like tons of people having having boys. But I will say having a boy has been it's been so much fun. I mean, I'm sure I would have been thrilled either way, but having a boy has been so much fun. Any names on the table?
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Yeah, so as you know, Huey is a third. Oh, yeah, that's right. That's right. So we are going to carry that tradition. The real question is what the nickname is going to be, you know, because here's the problem. This is the fourth hue, Hugh Vanhays the fourth. And that sounds, I mean, when I say that, I even laugh. I'm like, that's a name, that's someone's name. No, it really is. That's really my child's future name.
00:05:22
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But we don't know what we're going to call him because I've been dating my husband since we were 15. We've been together forever. So he's always been Huey. But I think it might be time for him to grow up into Hue and us. Because I can't call a newborn Hue. Can you imagine? So we're figuring it out. Either, you know, he'll adopt the newborn will get Huey and my husband will graduate onto the adult name or we're going to come up with a totally new nickname based on his personality. We really have no idea. And I have
00:05:50
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only three months left to figure it out, but we'll get there. I will say that the whole nickname stage is kind of fun just because there's things that you assume that you'll call them. And then when he actually shows up, we have all sorts of nicknames for Jack that we just would endeavor. For instance, we have our dog Goose, who we sometimes call the big duck.
00:06:11
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And then so we call Jack the little duck, you know, and I think we always joke around that that Jack's gonna grow up and he's gonna actually think his name is duck. He's also gonna think a dog is a goose and it's gonna be a really it's gonna be very confusing. But it's been fun, just like all sorts of nicknames that you just
00:06:27
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You never, you know, you never dream of and here we are calling them. So that's awesome. But in addition to that, you've moved back to Annapolis. So you're back in the area. Ironically, we've only seen each other in Richmond. Since you moved back, we've only seen each other in Richmond. So we have to change that. How's that transition going? I saw that the other morning, you shared on Insta stories that you were shooting. So is, you know, shooting a lot again? What does that what does this transition look like?
00:06:53
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Yes, there are a lot of transitions happening. I will say with the Annapolis transition in general, we are barely settled in. Anyone who's moved knows how this works, right? You open the necessities, you can drink coffee out of a bowl if you need to, but little things like we don't have a stove working yet because there was a gas leak when we got back into our townhouse. A lot of fun things like that have ensued.
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So on a personal level, it's been chaos. I mean, I know you all can't see this video, but as we're recording, I'm in a darkened room with no lights because we don't have light bulbs yet. I mean, really, truthfully. And I kind of feel like it's like very scary. It's like a horror film in my room where I am. So it's just the computer light. Oh, man.
00:07:28
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Personal level things are still chaos, but I'm so grateful to be home.
Growth and Impact of RTS
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And if you were to ask you like, you know, why did you guys move back? He will be honest and say, have you ever looked up the price of childcare? San Francisco and the price of anything in San Francisco.
00:07:44
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Yeah, don't even get me started. We're so grateful to be close to family. And then from like a professional level, you know, it's funny, I do pick up the camera, especially from time to time in SF. And then the minute I get back here, it was like being home again with all my friends. So yes, I'm shooting a little bit, although still working remotely for Honeybook and continuing to do what I've been doing for the last three years now, which is crazy.
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And loving it. And as an introvert, working remotely kind of has its perks. Sure. And when I get home, quote unquote, at the end of the day from walking from my office downstairs to the kitchen, I'm not exhausted.
00:08:21
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One thing that I do want to talk about before we jump into talking about growing a platform here is just RTS in general and community. Back when we started the Rising Tide Society, I don't think we knew how quickly it was going to blow up. We talked about that a lot after the fact. Looking back, I think it's easy to see some of the reasons why RTS took off as it did.
00:08:45
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But I feel like even in the last three years, what community looks like has changed. And I think when we first started it, a lot of solo premieres and people working from home, people really yearning to get out of the house and meet and collaborate with other people. There was the rise of online conferences and webinars. And I know webinars have been going on and
00:09:07
Speaker
and internet trainings have been going on for probably the better part of a decade that at least in our industry, those things were on the rise. But in a way, while they connected us and while social media and things like that connect us, at the same time, it still isolates us. It still doesn't provide that same in-person experience. I want to know just as you look forward to 2019 and how things are now, what is community look like? Do you still see those same trends playing out in RTS?
00:09:37
Speaker
You know, it's interesting. When we started Rising Tide, I think we were seeing this incredible sort of ripping apart of two worlds, right? So we were seeing the online world exploding. And as a result, we were seeing people yearning for the opposite, yearning for the offline, yearning for the in-person connection. What I've actually noticed happening, especially in the last year, is that these two worlds are almost starting to fuse together in a really unique way. And I'll explain.
00:10:01
Speaker
I think online is accessible. It's something that enables anyone to get connected, anyone to feel like they can be a part of something larger, whether it's Rising Tide or a movement in their community or a part of a podcast like this. This is a community in and of itself. There is still this growth and this rapid expansion of the online element.
00:10:25
Speaker
However, I think the offline and what people are craving from offline is less formal, less traditional networking, and more experiential, more relationship-based. And we saw that with rising tide. We saw the pain points, I should say, especially early on when
00:10:43
Speaker
People would get together and one of the biggest things we still hear from rising tide leaders is that they get feedback just on how much people love that it's not a traditional networking event. Like no one shows up with business cards. No one is just trying to be transactional in their connections with others. They desperately want real relationships. They want genuine conversations. They want to know that somebody else is struggling just like they are. And I think we're going to continue to see a yearning for that as we become more and more entrenched in the online world.
00:11:09
Speaker
But the two are fusing in the sense that people are becoming more vulnerable online. They're telling their stories in a different way. There's more color to what's happening behind what we used to consider, like the curated feeds. Those curated feeds are shifting in a way that the content that performs well for a lot of us and for a lot of creatives in different capacities with their own clients is content that clients can connect to. And we'll talk more about that when we talk about platforms. But I think that the two worlds are no longer separate.
00:11:37
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Rising Tide was a huge part of merging them together and I think other communities have followed
Trends in Community Engagement
00:11:42
Speaker
suit. I think boutique conferences and like Creative Heart is a great example of basically a movement that was in person that now has this massive online community around it as well. And so you see sort of this fusing, I think, of the two elements in a way that's really profound and really supportive of the member.
00:11:59
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's a great observation and those boutique niche conferences really come to mind and some of the bigger conferences that are out there seem to be on the decline to a certain extent. These old school, to a certain extent, show up with your business cards, hit a trade show.
00:12:15
Speaker
Those types of conferences seem to have declined over the last couple of years and now you have conferences taking their place which are in general a little bit more expensive but generally a smaller crowd and as you mentioned, more experiential. They focus even something like Show It United, I think is a very experience-based conference even though it's still probably between 300 and 500 people.
00:12:37
Speaker
So I think that's such an interesting observation and I'm looking forward to 2019 and seeing how some of these things play out both in RTS and beyond. One of the things that we even started the conversation off about was all these different transitions that you've been going through and I think this is a good segue into talking about growing a platform.
00:12:56
Speaker
You have gone from a wedding photographer extraordinaire, not that you're not shooting anymore. I think you shot a number of weddings last year as well, but you shifted into or transitioned into Rising Tide Society and more recently after that, even taking on a more specific role within Honeybook, you move back to Annapolis in the midst of all of that.
00:13:18
Speaker
you've gone through you're expecting a baby boy you've had a surgery that you that you talk about a lot it just so many different transitions but all along the way you've been growing a platform and it doesn't feel like anywhere along the way you had to hit
Maintaining Audience Connection Through Change
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Speaker
the reset button
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Speaker
you know or in terms of your in terms of the platform that you're growing right it seems like not that numbers is the only way that one would measure a platform but it seems like you have more followers along the way and it's not like every time you make this transition you have to you know start a new platform or you know you have a drop off in people following you and that's one of the things I'd love to chat with you about
00:13:57
Speaker
How do you do that? How do you create a platform that's really, it's a personal platform, but it kind of evolves with you? Yeah, absolutely. So it is funny actually, even in just hearing you talk about all the transitions that I've been through in the last couple of years to kind of recognize, well, I guess that is a lot. Because when you're going through it, you're just going through it. You're just trying to kind of get through to the next day. And then when you look retrospectively, it's funny to almost realize, okay, well, I've survived quite a bit, especially in the last year and a half.
00:14:27
Speaker
But I think the key here and the thing I've learned, and I think I knew it from day one, is that a platform is only as good as its foundation. And when you build a foundation for your platform that is solely on the craft, meaning it's only about design or it's only about photography or it's only about the product you create, and that's it, just about the product, nothing else, then the minute that shifts or changes, the audience doesn't have any ties or connections
00:14:55
Speaker
to anything else, and you do have to hit reset. Truthfully, at that point, you would have to hit reset. However, when you build a platform from a foundation of something greater than itself, whether it's a mission statement, a why, a purpose, even a person, and in my case, it's a little bit of a fusion of a couple things, but when you build it from something greater, something that can withstand shifts and changes and transitions,
00:15:19
Speaker
then people are able to connect to more than just your craft. They're able to connect to maybe who you are or what your heart is about, what you care about, what you want to see change in the world, or what you want your craft or your abilities to be able to give to others, like that impact, that legacy that you're building. That type of foundation is something that from a very early stage, I really tried to cultivate. I didn't just want to talk about wedding photography, but I wanted to share about
00:15:46
Speaker
you know, marrying my high school sweetheart and going through the season of building a business after college and not getting the full-time job and taking that big risk. And so I started to share a little bit of that. And each step along the way, when I went from full-time wedding photographer to running rising tide with you and Krista and Huey, and then from there, you know, kind of taking, taking on a different role and kind of, you know, stepping more into tech.
00:16:10
Speaker
every step along the way, I've just continued to share the story and to share my heart. And, you know, especially in the last year, continued to get more vulnerable, not to be afraid to share the messy parts and the not so Instagram worthy moments. And that includes, you know, going through brain surgery and how afraid I was going into that and like truthfully very afraid. And after that, how broken I felt and how hard it was for me mentally and physically to kind of put the pieces back together.
00:16:38
Speaker
And then even in the process, I have some regrets along the way. I wish I would have shared about our fertility journey a little bit earlier. I think that I wasn't quite at a point where my heart was ready to share about it. But we have learned, Huey and I, and then I would also say, just as a business owner, I have learned that the more I'm willing to give, meaning the more I'm willing to reveal, to share, to talk about whether it's professionally, sharing knowledge, education,
00:17:05
Speaker
information or whether it's personally, but struggles, it's hardships, it's joys and triumphs too. The more I give, the more my audience actually is able to benefit and therefore is able to give back. And it becomes like this ecosystem, this sort of like self-sustaining ecosystem.
Sharing Personal Stories Effectively
00:17:21
Speaker
So the long answer to your question, I think is like, how do you go through so many transitions and yet not have to reset your audience? The truth is it's communicating with your audience from a place of longevity, from a place of truth and honesty,
00:17:35
Speaker
about who you are, what your brand represents, what it wants to do in the world, what it aims to achieve. From there, growing slowly and growing organically. You will have people that will drop off. This is natural. I think as you get older, as you change into seasons of life, now that I'm becoming a mom, I'm going to have younger members in my audience that aren't really going to be as excited about all the pregnancy announcements and all of the baby updates.
00:18:00
Speaker
I also have a lot of parents that are in a different season that are ahead of me even, that now have started re-engaging and are more communicative with me and that I'm able to foster a different relationship. And so I don't know if that really answers the question in its entirety, but I think it kind of gets to the heart there of
00:18:19
Speaker
communicating more than just the transactional aspect of what you do, right? Talking about the relationships, talking about the heart, the purpose, the why, and then who you are behind it all. Yeah, that's great insight. And I think that there's a lot to unpack there as well.
00:18:35
Speaker
One of the questions that I kind of always have around this subject is deciding what to share. And one of the things that you had mentioned is social media, especially I think with the rise of story type features, is becoming a little bit more uncurated to a certain extent, right? But on some level, it is still curated in that you're not sharing absolutely everything when it comes to your life.
00:19:00
Speaker
And so I'm kind of wondering, how do you choose what to share versus maybe what to keep private? And even in sharing those hard things, how do you share them in a way that doesn't make the account just sort of like this Debbie Downer? Absolutely. It's constantly drama or things like just somebody dealing with their stuff.
00:19:23
Speaker
Oh my gosh, I have so much to say on this front. First, let's actually tackle the last point and then I'll explain more about how I decide what to share and when to share it. I think sometimes when we hear vulnerability or we hear someone who's being, quote unquote, honest with their audience, we immediately assume it means they're sharing a struggle. We think, okay, this has to be a negative thing that they're either going through or have gone through.
00:19:47
Speaker
Again, even enlisting some of the different transitions that I've gone through, none of them have been easy. I mean, my God, anyone who's gone through any transition or change knows that it's painful, even the good ones. I'm about to have a baby and it's going to be the most amazing change in our lives. It's also going to be the hardest.
00:20:02
Speaker
And so welcoming that, I think, is the first sort of place to start. And when it comes to communicating that, I really believe in communicating struggle from a perspective of courage or hope or even victory, because I think it can be easy to fall into this trap of being vulnerable, poor me, poor me, and slide into sort of a victimhood mentality. And Huey is sort of the greatest counterpart to me in the entire world, because as someone that does feel a lot of emotion,
00:20:31
Speaker
I can teeter either way. When I was going through my brain surgery, I wanted so badly to be a victim. I wanted it to be poor me. It's easy to fall into that trap, but I'm grateful that my husband, both in person and then when it comes to my mentality, which is how I then communicated outward.
00:20:47
Speaker
reminds me that no matter what we face, we have a choice in how we react to it. We can't control what our struggles or circumstances are necessarily, but we can control how we move forward and how we react. So I think it comes down to communicating your struggles that you are going through, as well as the exciting things that are vulnerable too.
00:21:06
Speaker
in a way that brings hope and that champions an optimistic perspective even when it's hard because to me that's something that I think my audience really resonates with. If I only shared the struggle and didn't also share that I saw God's grace in it or that it shifted my perspective in a certain way that's been really profound or that ultimately it's shaping me into a better person or it's changing something in my life in a positive way,
00:21:33
Speaker
then I also don't think they would gain the same value out of it, right? It would just be me complaining about what I'm going through. And quite frankly, we all are struggling, all of us. We don't need to be reminded that there's struggle in the world. I think what we need to be reminded of is that we are resilient and that we are fighters. So it's all in how it's communicated. At least for me, that's how I've tackled it.
00:21:53
Speaker
No, I think that's a trend I see among others as well. We had Caitlin James on the show earlier this year, or I guess by the time this episode goes live, it will be last year we had her on the show. One thing that she said was just along the lines of what you were saying is sharing from a place of redemption. And just as you mentioned, being able to show people that through these struggles, there's God's hope and there's God's redemption in that. And I think that was so well put. And I think what you're saying was so well put too.
00:22:22
Speaker
and something that's I think just a good reminder because I think when we hear people talk about how we need to be vulnerable on social media, that's where our mind goes. We need to go out there and we just need to put our struggles out there, but we don't share it from a perspective of hope or joy or strength even.
00:22:39
Speaker
Even in deciding how to share and when to share, that's a huge key element to the equation too because I think we hear it. You're right. All we hear online is be vulnerable, be open, be authentic.
Concept of Concentric Circles in Storytelling
00:22:51
Speaker
That's great, but that's very high-reaching advice. It doesn't have a lot of practical implications. Whereas when you take a step back, the way that I've really decided when and where to share is by thinking of my story in different concentrations.
00:23:08
Speaker
And I think of it like concentric circles. This is just how I see it in my mind. So if we want to get a little visual for a second, I think of it like concentric circles starting from me and then working its way outward where the people closest to me, you know, my, my husband, my, my mom, my sister, like my immediate family, they're in that tightest knit concentric circle. They're the ones that literally know nearly everything about what I'm going through, what I'm struggling with, how I'm feeling.
00:23:35
Speaker
I think I can take one step outside of that. And that might be my really close friends. And then one more circle outside of that. That might be my industry friends, right? Some of which fall into that very close friend category. Some of them I'm still building those relationships with. And you just keep working your way outward and outward and outward in those concentric circles until you reach the farthest fringes of the public, right? I've always thought about things from that perspective. And I really also like to look at it in how I communicate by starting with the tightest knit circle.
00:24:04
Speaker
understanding that I can be a certain level of vulnerable with them. And then learning through communicating and through telling what I'm going through in my story, what I'm enduring, you know, to those sort of more exterior concentric circles, each time that I tell it, I get better at communicating it in a way that I feel comfortable with to those varying degrees of relationships.
00:24:26
Speaker
So that means that there are things obviously I would never post on Instagram that I'm going through. But that doesn't mean that I don't open up and I don't share about it with my husband or my mom. It also means that I have to define the timing at which it makes sense to share something.
00:24:40
Speaker
And sometimes I do really well at that, and sometimes I don't do really well at that. And I'll give two examples. I think, you know, with sharing about my brain tumor and sharing about my surgery, this is actually a great example. Like, Davey, you and Kristin knew for years that this was something I dealt with. And we've shared personal things. Obviously, we're very, we've been very, very close for a long time.
00:25:00
Speaker
with each other that we don't share online. And one of those for me was my surgery. And so for years, I was very open about this with one of those concentric circles, but I never felt ready to share it publicly. I think part of it was because I was a full-time wedding photographer. I didn't need my clients worrying about my brain tumor. That was the last thing I wanted them to be stressing about when they're stressing about their wedding.
00:25:22
Speaker
I also recognized that there was a lot of uncertainty around that health diagnosis, but I was handling it. So I felt very, very steady in sort of keeping it closer, keeping it tighter to the vest until something shifted. I needed to have that tumor removed. I needed to have surgery, and suddenly I recognized
00:25:42
Speaker
okay, this is gonna mean I have to stop working for two months. This is gonna mean a huge shift in how I'm able to communicate with the outside world and what I'm capable of doing. And I don't wanna go through this without my audience knowing genuinely what's happening behind the scenes. So that sort of diagnosis became something I wanted to share outward and I did. And as I mentioned, the opposite of not doing it well was I think the fertility journey at the same time as we were launching the coffee commute
00:26:10
Speaker
I mean, you and Kristen do this, but I was driving up to Shady Grove with Huey here in Maryland and finding out around that time that the fertility doctor wasn't going to be able to help us conceive until we dealt with the tumor, and that was what, two and a half, three years ago? Maybe two, two and a half, yeah.
00:26:27
Speaker
You know, I never felt comfortable sharing that until after my surgery and actually until after we had started injections crazy enough, which wasn't even the beginning of the journey by any means. Right. And so I look back and I think, you know, should I have opened up a little earlier? And I think part of me believes maybe I should have. But another part of me is grateful that I get to give myself grace in each step of when I'm ready, when I'm ready to be vulnerable and be communicative about something. And I think that's something that anyone listening to this should extend to themselves as well, thinking about who deserves to know and at what time and
00:26:57
Speaker
making sure that you're just being genuine to you and your story before you're able to be genuine to your
Healthy and Authentic Storytelling Practices
00:27:03
Speaker
audience. I really like the concentric circles illustration. I'm hoping that somewhere, maybe even on your Instagram, there's like a doodle of this. Have we doodled the concentric?
00:27:12
Speaker
Let me know because we will absolutely link to that doodle so I'm expecting that you know to correspond with the with the show notes All right, but I really really like that illustration because I do think that there are some things You know even in in terms of timing like you said that are just best shared with the people who you know are your closest with and
00:27:32
Speaker
who you know, love and support you, who you know will speak truth into your life. And I think sometimes, especially again, listening to that half truth of being vulnerable online, we just skip to that farthest out concentric circle, where we just go straight to social media and sharing it.
00:27:52
Speaker
And what we get back in return is probably, at least from some people, just not speaking truth into our lives through comments and how they interact with what you're sharing. So I think that was just such a great example too. Again, the tumor, that's something that you've dealt with for years. And really, it's something that didn't become public until you felt like, well, it's going to be public really regardless of whether I like it or not because I'm going to have this
00:28:19
Speaker
surgery, and I'm going to be basically out for two months. And so again, I think that's just I think all of what you just said, there's such great insight into into both being honest, you know, on social media and inviting people into your life, but at the same time doing it in a way that's that's just healthy.
00:28:36
Speaker
I think that's probably the best way to put it. It's just healthy both for you and both for your audience as well. And it also gives you an opportunity to share from that place of redemption. I think sometimes when you're going through it and when you're in the thick of it, it's just not the time to share.
00:28:52
Speaker
No, I completely agree. I also think people can get sort of like overwhelmed themselves by this pressure to share. I think this is almost becoming, as I mentioned, because I think the offline and online worlds are fusing more and more and we're trying to bring what we love about in-person community online in every way that we can, again, including vulnerability, there becomes this pressure and almost this guilt that if you're not sharing your deepest, darkest secrets to the internet,
00:29:16
Speaker
that somehow you're not genuine. And that is just so frustrating to me because that is such a lie. I think there's a way to be genuine and to kind of tiptoe your way into finding where you're comfortable at that level of communication. And it could be just sharing your own insecurities on a really light level. Like if you're launching a big business, maybe sharing about how when you first
00:29:39
Speaker
I decided to launch this business. You knew with everything in your heart, this was your dream, but you were afraid that it wouldn't succeed. That is vulnerable. That's a vulnerable statement, right? But it doesn't have to be the deepest, darkest secret of your life. It could be something like that. And then also amidst communicating that, communicating how grateful you are to have such amazing clients that see your vision too, that align with you, that believe in you, and that are enabling you to reach goals that you never fathomed you could reach. And that's a way of sharing, hey, here's a vulnerability. Here's how I felt when I started.
00:30:07
Speaker
And then maybe I'm not at a point where I consider it a success yet, right? But I'm on the journey there and being able to take that audience with you and communicate that I think is a way to get over sort of that lie that you have to be bearing your soul every single day to the
Aligning Personal Stories with Brand and Purpose
00:30:22
Speaker
Internet. It's just not true. You know, you can really start simply and just communicating more of you, your story and what you care about.
00:30:28
Speaker
Yeah, and you know, Natalie, if I if I had less restraint here, I'd be tempted to take this conversation off into another direction where we talk, where we talk a little bit of neuroscience, all right, and talk about what happens in the brain, you know, when you get likes and things like that. And maybe, you know, and we could totally go off in that direction. And I mean, driven feedback loops, because I could go on for days about the addictive sort of outcomes of those, but we'll we won't go there, maybe another episode.
00:30:54
Speaker
I know, exactly. And it would have to be like a two-hour episode. And we probably have to get Huey involved in that one as well, you know, just because we're talking about tech and social media and all that stuff. But anyway, so we won't go there. But I wanted you to know, you know, we had talked before the episode here that we could probably talk for, you know, three to five hours on just, you know, random stuff like that. So I wanted you to know, I'm not I'm intentionally not taking the conversation into that direction. I guess the direction that we that we ought to go is I'm going to use myself as an example.
00:31:24
Speaker
I really struggle with really just sharing anything on social media. I think in general, I'm a pretty private person, which I know is maybe ironic on some level just because I do like speaking. I do like talking to people, but I'm pretty reserved in, I think, what I share.
00:31:39
Speaker
So, could you coach me through, could you walk me through, somebody who wants or, you know, anybody out there who's maybe similar, somebody who wants to build a platform, who struggles getting to that point where, you know, they feel like they can share anything personal. How does a person like that start building a platform? And I guess maybe we should even start with some mistakes you see people make at the outset.
00:32:03
Speaker
Absolutely. I think first thing I would ultimately do, especially for someone who maybe already is communicating on social media, but perhaps it's just about the craft. It's just about the business. It's not maybe about themselves, or maybe they haven't even taken the first step to share anything, would be to really understand what you are trying to communicate, who you are trying to communicate to, and just start very basically.
00:32:28
Speaker
Let's use a designer, for instance, as a designer, you are creating work for your clients, right?
00:32:35
Speaker
It's more than transaction. It actually definitely transcends that, becomes relational. So what I would recommend doing is actually starting to understand who are the clients and you guys do branding work all the time. So this is not new to you at all, but understanding who you're talking to, who you're trying to attract to your business. And also maybe even taking the step of outlining what that persona looks like and understanding what elements that person doesn't want to hear about, right?
00:33:04
Speaker
It's like, what will attract them? What also, though, unfortunately, would repel that ideal person that you're communicating to? Just start there. Start very basic in communications and marketing 101, understanding the fundamentals. Then from there, what I recommend doing is taking a step further and saying, OK, great, but why are you running this business? And what is the purpose behind it? And almost taking the Simon Sinek, start with why approach.
00:33:27
Speaker
mixed with a little bit of like a Seth Godin tribes approach of understanding that, you know, any kind of community in this sense, but I actually would relate it to audience, which I think is sort of the new online version of a community needs to be connected to a leader, which is you or the brand needs to be connected to an idea, which is where I'm getting with the mission statement, the why the purpose.
00:33:46
Speaker
and needs to be connected to one another. They actually need to be able to communicate with one another. Your community does, your audience does, and they need to feel sort of connected to this greater platform, this greater thing that is you, your brand, the message that you're putting forth, and in this case, for the designer, the work that you're actually creating. So it's not just about creating a pretty logo. It's about creating a holistic brand that tells someone's story that enables them to pursue their passion, for instance.
00:34:13
Speaker
And in knowing that, you kind of now are getting to a more qualitative, more emotional, perhaps more connected place in understanding something deeper about your platform and what you do. And then from there, what I recommend doing is going one level deeper and saying, okay, so this is my purpose and this is why I'm doing it. And this is what my brand looks like. And this is who I'm communicating to. What elements of me
00:34:39
Speaker
right? As the person, as the individual behind the business and the brand, do I think really enable me to connect with that audience member, that maybe enable me to communicate why my purpose is my purpose? Why do I care about helping people to tell their stories? Is it something about my own story? Is it that I maybe should tell my story a little more? Is it that
00:35:02
Speaker
was a kid that didn't talk till I was five, and then once I did, I never stopped. I mean, like, what is it about you that makes you want to create brands and makes you want to design sort of a new identity for others? And when you can start to dig deeper and then just pick out a couple of things, right? You don't need to tell your whole story in an Instagram caption. You can choose five things. Five things about you that are important that you think your audience needs to know about. It might be your marriage or your relationship, and maybe that's important because you feel like
00:35:30
Speaker
at the heart of every business should be love, and that could be the love of a parent that inspired you to pick up a camera and become a photographer. It could be
00:35:38
Speaker
the support of a spouse that empowered you to take this hobby and turn it into a business, but maybe it's love. Maybe it's a relationship. Maybe it's that you are an amazing cook or you're a terrible cook. I actually incorporated being a terrible cook earlier on in my brand. I've gotten better, thank God, but I used to post videos of the fire alarm in my little townhouse going off when I tried to make Huey dinner.
00:36:02
Speaker
To demonstrate that I was trying, I was making an effort, but also that that was how I signaled to him that dinner was ready, like something burned and so therefore dinner must be done. But what's great about that is I was working with a lot of newlywed couples. I was working with a lot of couples that are getting ready to get married.
00:36:17
Speaker
And let me just tell you, neither of them knew how to cook either, right? They were still making Kraft mac and cheese too. So they could connect with that authenticity of, okay, she might look like she has it all together, but we all know she just burned her dinner, right? We all know she's still struggling to figure out temperature control. And there was a little element of that that when I continued to share it over and over, it connected with my ideal audience. It also enabled me to be a little vulnerable and it made for a great kind of kickoff conversation when I actually would sit down with clients
00:36:46
Speaker
And they would say like, okay, I have to just tell you, he can't cook. He is exactly like you were. She can't. And it opened up a gateway for communication. So I know that was a long answer, but I think it's understanding the business, moving one step deeper into your purpose.
00:36:59
Speaker
And then actually going a step even deeper, which is where the personal comes in of how can you communicate about yourself in a way that drives you towards maybe illuminating the purpose more, maybe just connecting with the audience on a deeper level. But finding five things, five things, right? I mentioned marriage, I mentioned like, even something as silly like, you can't cook, it could be your love of a color.
00:37:21
Speaker
It could be your love of another artist or musician or
Documenting Life to Reflect Mission and Values
00:37:24
Speaker
a song. I think of Madison Short, who loves the remix to Ignition. And at first, you know, everyone was kind of like, OK, I don't get it. But to this day, I still see other wedding photographers taking videos of themselves on Instagram stories when that song comes on and tagging her and actually spreading her brand just by communicating, Maddie, this song made me think of you. And so it's it's finding those elements and then communicating them consistently.
00:37:47
Speaker
Yeah, I was just vigorously taking notes here. So I think there needs to be lots of doodles for people to go back to if they miss some of that. Fortunately, it is a podcast so you can always rewind. But I have a feeling that this is going to be one of those episodes where people are going back and taking notes. And there's so much good stuff that you said in there. One thing I want to ask you about is
00:38:08
Speaker
One thing that I've noticed about people who are, I think, really good at what you're really good at, which I think is in terms of connecting and engaging with the community, growing a community, is that they're able to talk about their why without explicitly talking about their why. Does that make sense? They never come out and they're not an instant story, it's just reading their mission statement, let's say. They're always using different means to, I guess, explain to people what they're about.
00:38:37
Speaker
How can people do that? How can people get better about making sure that they're conveying who they are, what they do, why they do it without coming out and saying it?
00:38:47
Speaker
Oh man, I think it starts by truly having a why that aligns with who you are and what you really believe in at your core. Because if it's something you truly believe in to a degree that you live it every single day, then all you have to do is open up a window and document your own life, right? Like if it's so authentic to who you are, I think about friends of mine, we can, you know, it could be anything, but friends of mine who were faith is every, every part of their day, their, their faith system is
00:39:15
Speaker
integrated into who they are. It's not something they just talk about on the internet. It truly is. It's who they are. Then all they have to do is share their life with people and they're going to see that belief system resonate and see it shine through in their values and how they invest time in their family or their church group or in their synagogue or whatever it is because it is really who they are.
00:39:37
Speaker
I think that's where you start. It is your mission statement. The question isn't like how do you communicate the mission statement without saying it? It's really make sure your mission statement is actually something that aligns with who you are to a level where it's ingrained in your very being. I look at people who practice what they preach and it still doesn't feel real, doesn't feel authentic and you can tell. You can just tell that
00:40:01
Speaker
they're putting on a show or they're trying to live up to this brand that they created that's almost more aspirational than it is authentic. And that's okay. But I think that there's beauty in having a mission statement of why a purpose that is so ingrained with your values and who you are and what you want to see the world become or what you want to do for your clients and how you want to impact their life that simply by documenting your daily existence
00:40:28
Speaker
you're showcasing what really matters to you. You're showcasing your why. A good example of someone that does this so beautifully is Abby Grace, actually, who I think will be either have already been on an episode or if not is very, very soon upcoming. She's a dear friend to both of us, but she is someone who I remember very early on talking about why she cared so much about photography and her images and this idea of creating heirlooms and
00:40:53
Speaker
You know, she shares a lot about her life, her travels, her time with Matt, her husband. And, you know, in documenting her own journey, her own marriage, she inspires other people to do the same with theirs. She inspired Huey and I to get pictures taken together. And, you know, she was the first person I thought of when I wanted pictures, you know, outside of like our wedding. I brought her up to Maryland to shoot for us because she really believes these heirlooms are so important that she's creating them herself and she's inspiring people
00:41:22
Speaker
to do the same and in telling the story of her, her family, and what she dreams of for her future. She's doing it every single day. So I think it's really finding ways to align that mission statement with who you are and what you really care about as a creative and as a creator.
00:41:40
Speaker
in a way that as you move forward, it becomes very natural to communicate it. Even if it's playing with your dog, it can align. Showing off how much you love your dog and you're running around or how much you love your kids and how you start to tell stories about parenthood. I've seen those things with you and Krista. It goes to show that you guys care immensely about family and you care immensely about creating this legacy of love in your lives.
00:42:07
Speaker
that is so much deeper and so much richer. And I can see how you want to help other people to have that same kind of life where they can be joyous in every moment and really pursue their passion and do what makes them happy, do ultimately what allows them to leave the legacy behind and in creating brands for people.
Focusing on Authenticity Over Competition
00:42:28
Speaker
You guys do that. You enable them to have that same circle of love
00:42:33
Speaker
and faith and honestly just joy, right? And I know that was a rambling answer. He knows I ramble. No, that was great. You're too kind. And you know what's funny too is Abby actually brought you up in her episode as well. And so your episodes will be released around the same time period. So both are great. So I encourage you to go and listen to Abby's episode as well. And I think that is a great example.
00:42:56
Speaker
I guess one other thing that comes to mind is when I think about people that I really like to engage with online, whose communities I feel like I'm a part of, one thing that they're so good at is telling stories. I think that aligns perfectly with what you were saying. It's just that if you're truly living out your why, the stories you tell about your life align with that.
00:43:15
Speaker
And so, it just makes sense that people would connect and engage with that and that whatever they're living in their lives would resonate with your own life. So, I appreciate that answer and I don't think it was as rambling as you think.
00:43:30
Speaker
There's a reason I doodle. I think the doodles have become a new method of communication that require far fewer words than I'm used to because I do feel like I ramble. But you know what? It's okay. That's why I picked up my iPad and I've started doodling truthfully. I want at least one doodle to go into the show notes. I'm going to try. I will do my best. Concentric circles. Concentric circles. That's the one I want. Before we wrap up here, I want to know, are there any mistakes that you see people make?
00:43:57
Speaker
that they should just absolutely avoid when trying to grow a platform. Yes. I think the biggest mistake is spending more time looking at your competition than looking at your client. I think that we have a tendency to want to model behavior after what we see other people doing that we perceive to be successful. Keyword, perceive.
00:44:19
Speaker
to be successful. And therefore we oftentimes, and I see a lot of people make this mistake, but we oftentimes follow somebody else's trajectory or path to a point where their inspiration, their brand, their message, their audience.
00:44:33
Speaker
we almost sort of absorb elements of that rather than defining for ourselves who we are and who we want to be. And actually, Krista was someone that was really instrumental for me in determining this for myself. I think back to an early rebrand of Natalie Frank photography, when I desperately wanted what everyone else had, I wanted calligraphy, I wanted pink, I wanted watercolor, I wanted all of these elements. Krista said to me, I'm enjoying this.
00:45:01
Speaker
I mean, this is real like old school here. We're going all the way back and Krista in her Christophae like looked at me and was like, but you're not that you're not that like I'm looking at you. You're wearing spares. You don't have your nails painted. You're not super like you're not super girly. You don't you're not a fine artist. You're not a watercolor painter. You know, nothing wrong with that nap. But you're sitting here, you know, I'm sure Krista said it in her very blunt, you know, the very blunt way that she says those sorts of things.
00:45:27
Speaker
Which I needed so desperately because again, what was I doing? I was looking at other people and I was saying, I want to be just like her. When in reality, what Krista reminded me was, no, you're pretty darn awesome yourself. Be you. You're nautical. You are more of a preppy classic kind of person. You grew up in Annapolis. She identified for me, I think, that my uniqueness was not a weakness, that
00:45:52
Speaker
you know, ultimately, the brand I needed to create wasn't one that mirrored what other people were doing, but rather was one that communicated who I was in a way that connected to my clients. And this is like, I'm talking way back when we know she's a genius, she's always been a genius. But this moment was really transformational for me. And so I think the biggest mistake I see people making, honestly, is they're focusing more on their competition than their client, they are comparing themselves and they're trying to build something that
00:46:18
Speaker
resembles what they think other people are doing and are doing successfully rather than taking that step back and really figuring out who they are and what makes them different and looking at their uniqueness, looking at that element of them that maybe even they've been insecure about. I talk about like I'm a nerd. I never used to talk about that until a couple of years back.
00:46:37
Speaker
I was so afraid of that. I looked at the industry and everyone was so glamorous and social and fun and cute and all those words. Here I was truly a nerd. I really enjoyed reading journal entries about which side of the stage to speak to when you're trying to be humorous versus trying to be emotional. I love the neuroscience of everything.
00:46:58
Speaker
And I was so afraid to be vulnerable about like, oh, that actually is who I am. I'm not, I'm not always the most social. I'm kind of awkward. Anyone who knows me knows that I get scared. I get terrified before I walk into a room of people. And then afterwards I collapse and just want to sleep for the rest of the night because I'm a nature bird. But I never let that shine through because I was trying to be somebody that I thought other people wanted me to be rather than being myself. And I think that's a mistake a lot of us make.
00:47:20
Speaker
It's so true even not in business. I think just in competition in general and I think back to my experience in coaching is one thing it was really hard while we prepped for games and so I coached high school varsity lacrosse and one thing that was very difficult
00:47:37
Speaker
in terms of managing players was trying to get them not to focus too much on the film of their competition, right? Because what happened is, you know, they would focus so much on that, they would forget what they had to execute on their own, you know, like our game plan. And I just thought I think it's such an interesting parallel to business as well. You know, I think sometimes just like you said, we do something similar, you know, instead of focusing on our own game plan, the things that we have to execute, we get so wrapped up in what
00:48:05
Speaker
other people are doing. It takes us away from what we should be focused on, what's going to move our business forward.
00:48:12
Speaker
So again, I think that's great insight to wrap up this episode with and I'm excited to hopefully see you and Huey in Annapolis, not in another state since we're literally miles from each other again. But it has, like you said, it's just a busy season, especially with the holidays.
Conclusion and Future Engagement
00:48:29
Speaker
And I want to thank you so much for taking the time to join me on the show. And for those people listening, where can they learn more about you?
00:48:38
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. So the best place is at nataliefrank.com. And then on social media, I spend most of my social media time allocated towards Instagram these days. So I would say at Natalie Frank on Instagram, and I would just love a chance to connect with all of you who are listening. And Davey, seriously, thank you so much for having me on. I do feel like it's a throwback to our Coffee Commute podcast days. This has been so much fun and just a huge honor to be on the platform. So thank you so much.
00:49:05
Speaker
Yeah, well, I will say, you know, it was really the coffee commute. And we talked about even before we stepped down from RTS, how much we enjoyed doing the podcast, you know, even though you were just learning. I mean, it was just it was a very raw, I think, experience, because, you know, we had never done something like it before. But really, I mean, one of the reasons I started this podcast was because I had, you know, such fond memories of of that podcast. And it was just such a good learning experience to for this one as well.
00:49:33
Speaker
So thank you again, and hopefully we will see you around soon. Thanks, Davey. Thanks for tuning in to the Brands That Book Show. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing and leaving a review in iTunes. For show notes and other resources, head on over to daveyandchrista.com.
00:50:04
Speaker
you