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Episode 70: How to Use Instagram to Grow Your Business
157 Plays5 years ago
Today's episode features photographer Devin Robinson, founder of Anchor and Veil and co-owner of the Kreativ Summit. I had the opportunity to catch Devin's breakout session at United, where he presented on an Instagram strategy that was really unlike anything else that I've heard about making Instagram work for your business. Regardless of whether you think you can make this strategy work for you, I think there are a lot of really helpful insights in this episode.
Also, if you are a photographer looking for a conference, check out Kreativ Summit. The next conference is in January and it features a great line-up of educators. Plus, it's in sunny Florida, which as far as I am concerned, is the place to be in the middle of January.
For the show notes, go to https://daveyandkrista.com/btb-devin-robinson-episode-70
Recommended
Transcript
Scaling Business for Higher Revenue
00:00:05
Speaker
I shot 40 weddings last year at $6,000 to $7,000 average and made $250K. 2019 this year, I have 20 weddings with almost $450,000 in revenue. So I shot less and almost doubled my revenue by scaling.
Introduction to Guest Devin Robinson
00:00:22
Speaker
Welcome to the Brands at Book Show, where we help creative service-based businesses build their brands and find more clients. I'm your host, Davy Jones.
00:00:34
Speaker
Today's episode features photographer Devin Robinson, founder of Anchor and Veil and co-owner of the Creative Summit. I had the opportunity to catch Devin's breakout session at United, where he presented on an Instagram strategy that was really unlike anything else that I've heard about making Instagram work for your business.
00:00:52
Speaker
Regardless of whether you think you can make this strategy work for you, I think there are a lot of really helpful insights in this episode.
Creative Summit Conference
00:00:58
Speaker
Also, if you're a photographer looking for a conference, check out Creative, and that's Creative spelled K-R-E-A-T-I-V. The next conference is in January, and it features a great lineup of educators. Plus, it's in sunny Florida, which as far as I'm concerned, is the place to be in the middle of January.
00:01:15
Speaker
Be sure to check out the show notes at DavianChrista.com for the resources we mentioned during the episode, and I want to hear from you. Let me know what kind of content you'd like to see on the Brancet Book Podcast as we move
Audience Feedback Channels
00:01:25
Speaker
forward. You can leave your feedback by heading on over to the Davian Christa Facebook page or by sending us a DM on Instagram at DavianChrista. Now, onto the episode.
00:01:41
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of the Brands That Book Podcast. I'm here with Devin Robinson.
Devin Robinson's Podcast Journey
00:01:45
Speaker
Devin is somebody that I just got to hang out with at Show It United. Loved his breakout presentation, which is largely what we're going to be talking about today. But Devin's actually a guy that I've been trying to get on the podcast for a while now. I'm glad that this has finally come together. But Devin, welcome. Thank you, man. I was about to say welcome. Yeah.
00:02:06
Speaker
Thank you, man. No, I am so, so glad to be
Entrepreneurial Beginnings
00:02:09
Speaker
here. I know I've been listening to your podcast and super encouraged. And let me just tell you, really challenged too, because when you first came out with your podcast, I was like, I got to get more of my episodes out there. I'm like, man, I got to, I got to work hard. Like, and so, man, I'm really encouraged by you and your consistency that you've had in this podcast. And, and I'm just, man, it's been awesome. And so I'm glad, you know, I followed you from afar and it was really cool. Just really connecting this past, I guess two weeks ago,
00:02:32
Speaker
Oh, I don't know. Two weeks ago at Show United, man. So really awesome and very thankful for you. Man, well, I really appreciate that. And, you know, we talked about this, but you have a great Facebook group for photographers. We're going to talk a little bit more about that. I think it's one of the better Facebook groups that I'm a part of. And I feel like I'm in so many different Facebook groups just because we contribute content in so many different groups. But you just do such a good job of connecting with your people.
00:03:00
Speaker
on a consistent basis. Thank you so much. That means the world, man. I appreciate that. But fun fact about podcasting. So I don't know what you found with your own podcast, but I feel like it's been such a great way to connect with people. One thing that I've learned about podcasting is that the average show lasts seven episodes before somebody gives up.
00:03:21
Speaker
I heard that. I heard like there's a seven episode hump that if you can get by it, then you're fine. Yeah. Yeah. So that's crazy to me. But I understand there's a lot of technical pieces that go into it. And, you know, the equipment can get a little expensive. You, for instance, are using the Rolls Royce of podcasting mics. I'm pretty jealous.
00:03:39
Speaker
but hey you wrote it down so I'm pretty sure you'll be getting it as well and you know it was one of those things where I was like you know if I'm gonna spend some time in this I know audio really matters and I I also like things and so which is dangerous and this it makes me excited to talk into it
00:03:56
Speaker
I'm like, yes, I'll do another episode today. So it's awesome. But I also love, you've built like almost a studio for yourself down here and it looks legit. I'm in the back corner of a room right now. But anyways, we're going to dive into our content for today. We are going to mostly be talking about Instagram. You presented on social media in general, I think with a emphasis though on Instagram at United. And it was one of the
00:04:23
Speaker
If not the best I think presentation that I've heard on Instagram I think you just you flip so many different things right on their head your approach I just think is it's just backwards from what other people are teaching and I think I think it was a breath of fresh air because You're approaching it from like a truly business oriented perspective like oh, yeah
00:04:45
Speaker
Hey, how is Instagram going to get me more bookings? So I thought it was a fascinating conversation. Less about things like likes, you know, and I'm sure you've been following the news, like Instagram apparently is gonna start hiding likes anyways. And it's just, it never was important to begin with. And I'm kind of excited to not be hearing from people, oh, you know, my engagement's down, people aren't liking my photos. Or, you know, whatever, exactly, who cares? So I'm excited to dig into it with you. First though,
00:05:14
Speaker
Tell us a little bit about how you got started. How did you start Anchor and Veil Photography?
Founding of Anchor and Veil Photography
00:05:18
Speaker
That's the name of your business. What's your entrepreneurial journey look like? Yeah, man. I never really realized it, but for a long time, I think I've had this entrepreneurial mindset in my life where I used to take these really
00:05:33
Speaker
weird pit like in elementary school and I've just thought about this but like I used to take these really weird pins and I would like take out the the ink section of them and put like candy in them or like this little like powdered candy called Lucas which like I don't know if anybody ever knows and then like I would put that in there and I'd sell them at school and so like I'm in elementary school creating something and selling it and I've always had this kind of entrepreneur spirit where I've always known that there's a need for
00:05:59
Speaker
And I've always wanted to be that person that's met that need and provided like some sort of product or Service to meet that need and so it's kind of been in me all my life was doing really interesting and coming out of college I I got a camera actually Specifically like I went into debt got a camera specifically so I can make videos for my college ministry and we can just make stupid videos and I actually the the night that I like
00:06:23
Speaker
asked my wife out on a date, I was like, she was just all really nice with her friends from India. They'd come in town and they're all hanging out, and she was like, hey, can you come hang out? And I was like, yeah. Well, me and my boys were in jerseys and fitteds, because we were just filming a music video. And so I was like, we're going to come in that stuff. And so it was just so ridiculous. And I bought a camera just to make dumb videos. And then eventually somebody, of course, was like, oh, hey, would you shoot my wedding? And I was like, probably not for free. And they're like, well, we got $500.
00:06:52
Speaker
And I was like, oh, you know, yeah, that's cool. Cool. And then I got home to Catherine. I was like, let's go. Five hundred dollars.
Business Growth Through Team Building
00:06:59
Speaker
What? So like I, you know, I started out like everybody else, like five hundred dollars. Like, let's go. My first two weddings, five hundred dollars. And then after that kind of. So that was back in, I guess 2012 was the very first wedding I ever did. I'd never been to a wedding. I'd never had never done anything. I shot that thing by myself. I didn't even care. And, you know, it was all right.
00:07:21
Speaker
Right, so, and then in 2013, my wife and I started Anchoring Velve Photography, LLC, right when we had gotten married, 12-15-12. So, the end of 2012, had three weddings in 2013, 2014 had 14 weddings, 2015 I was teaching at a high school, coaching football and baseball, shooting 25 weddings, and that year we were like, okay.
00:07:42
Speaker
And I didn't do it like, like, listen, I am all, I'm zero to 100. I'm all or nothing. And I do think there's a lot of value in like the cost benefits analysis, but I'm like, I'm just going to do it. And so I was like, Hey, it looks like I'm making enough money over here to replace my income. So I'm just going to quit my job. And so I did that. And then I was like, Hey, babe, you want to quit too? And she's like, she's like super high stress and she's like,
00:08:06
Speaker
No, and I'm like, I really think you should quit. And so then she quit in December. And so since 2015, we've kind of been full time where it's been like, you know, 25 weddings, 2015, 2016, 17 and 18, it was like 45 weddings. And then this year, 2019, I have 25, but I also have five photographers, two cinematographers, four second shooters. And so they have, they're carrying a good load. And then next year, your boy's got eight weddings, which I'm thankful for while at
00:08:35
Speaker
As of right now, I think this is, what is this, November? We've got about 60 weddings on the books, and only eight of them are mine, and none of them are in Charlotte, or one of them is in Charlotte, and the rest are just kind of around the world, so it's pretty cool.
00:08:47
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's an incredible story. There's something, so many people that I've interviewed, so many people that I know in the industry have some sort of teaching and coaching background. Yeah, that's really interesting. I taught high school English. It was a high school lacrosse coach before stepping away to join Crystal full-time with this. I wonder what connection there is between being in education or teaching and, I mean, the photography industry in particular, but just being an entrepreneur because there's got to be something.
00:09:13
Speaker
There there is it's interesting I think you know what I think it is I also do think it's a desire to give back and fit a need because there's there's kids that the need is for them to be educated and I think there's a selfless aspect to it and I think there's that's that could be a big part of it who knows I just thought about that randomly just now so maybe maybe not
Teaching and Entrepreneurship
00:09:30
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I think a lot of what we learned in the classroom just in terms of like resilience and persistence and You know dealing with all the stuff that we end up having to deal with in business People person because you got to talk to parents and you have to be somewhat decent at details because you got to come up with class Stuff that I never came up with in the principal rows be like Devin You need to submit your class thing in the barber and I'm like shoot. It's like Tuesday, you know
00:09:54
Speaker
I was never good at that. I was like, I need an assistant for my teaching. It just didn't work out much. It is something interesting about that. I do want to dive into Instagram here in a second, but I have a question about you growing your team in particular. Your business really took off, but at some point, you brought on team members. What kind of happened
00:10:15
Speaker
you know, what was kind of the realization of, oh, wow, you know, I can grow this beyond myself. I think when we think about scaling, people's minds immediately go to education, which is all fine and good, but you can scale, you know, a service based business through hiring a team. So what was the realization there for you? And when did you when did you start bringing on associates?
00:10:35
Speaker
So yeah, I love business. Like that is, I mean, I love photography and I think I'm decent at photography. My work is different. And probably a lot of people listening to this podcast has not seen my work, but like it's different and I do love it. But, and I love the art out of it, but I love business, love business. And I am the type of person that like every five years I start thinking of like, what can I do next? What can I do next?
00:10:58
Speaker
And so I kind of hit that moment and I got to a point for me that I was like, okay, as far as a photography business is concerned, it's a very personal brand. And so I don't want to be left with the business that when I leave it, I have nothing left to show for spending the last seven years of my life pouring my life into this business. So I go, okay, so how can I make this sellable or how can I make this scalable?
00:11:23
Speaker
The only two ways to do that as a photography business that I found was to either get a studio and have a studio that's fairly turnkey, reproducible, print sales, things like that, because that's much more sellable than a personal brand is, or to have a team that becomes fairly turnkey as well, that one is sellable and is scalable. And so that's what I decided to do instead, was to be able to do something like that, that in turn allows me to have, like listen, I shot 40 weddings last year,
00:11:50
Speaker
I don't know six to seven thousand dollar average and made 250 K this year like in or no That's this year 2019 in 2020. I have eight weddings. No, sorry. That was let me let me run that that was 2018 2019 this year. I have 20 weddings
00:12:07
Speaker
with almost $450,000 in revenue. So I shot less and doubled, almost doubled my revenue by scaling. And so that's just good business. That's just, it's a no-brainer for me. And my work is different. It's not like, so I love people that sell, like Jordan and Amy sale are really cool posing and presets that makes their photo, people's photos look very similar to theirs. I don't have a style that people can look very similar to mine.
00:12:34
Speaker
at the end of the day i was like it's a photography business my clients don't necessarily know the exact difference in my style but they know it's different and all i have to do is train somebody to be fairly similar to provide a great experience and my my clients won't know the difference and so it's just one of those things that i decided to put myself and like my i think i think artists and especially artists have this weird like
00:12:56
Speaker
Creative pride about themselves that is like nobody does this like me nobody could shoot this like me and I'm like get over yourself Like there's a reason why starving artists are starving You know what I'm saying and like that's it right there And so I'm just like and so I decided to just kind of get over myself and scale and
00:13:12
Speaker
And, uh, you know, and again, just kind of this attitude and this approach, again, fresh breath of fresh air, I think. And if you're listening, like I said, Devin has a great Facebook group and I think you get a lot more of this and you're always in there sharing details about, you know, how you're doing things like this, which I really appreciate. So real quick, can you just tell people where they can find that Facebook group?
00:13:31
Speaker
Yes, so you could do anchored education or you can search for anchored education or you can go to anchoredfb.com or if you want and you like to text, you can text 704-486-2620 and text anchored to that, or sorry, anchor to 704-486-2620.
00:13:49
Speaker
486-2620 and I'll actually send you like my black and white presets. You'll also get how I find, what we'll talk about today, how I find ideal clients, like a whole video on that and then also my 10 tips of composition. So like you'll get a bunch of things just by texting that number and it'll send you kind of that information. So like and then you can also join the group from that.
00:14:11
Speaker
One of the things that I do want to mention before we move on to Instagram here is that while you would emphasize that you love the business side of things, I don't want you to discount the photography side of things because one of your images in particular, I think one of my favorite images, and I'm not even going to try to describe it here, but I used it in one of my slides. It was one of the first slides I used in my keynote, so great photographer as well.
00:14:34
Speaker
Let's move on to Instagram. One of the first questions you asked during your breakout presentation, and this is, you know, as like in this moment, interest peaked and it was this, how many people can you follow on Instagram? That was the question that you posed to the group that was there. And I had no idea. So can you go into why you asked that question and kind of what your approach to Instagram is?
Instagram Strategy for Relationship Building
00:15:00
Speaker
Yeah man, so what I love about Instagram is like, I think that there's this really interesting misconception about Instagram in business and that people think it's about us. It's not about us at all. So like, you know, I love people that teach on like, show yourself, be more you in your Instagram. Like that's great.
00:15:18
Speaker
Great like that's awesome. Yes, you will attract your tribe like that or make your Instagram aesthetically pleasing and things like that Like sure you could totally do that or post Consistently like sure you could totally do that but like one of my slides also said it's not about you Like it's it's not about you Instagram is not about you as much as we like to think it is It's not about your work like there's two people in the world that love my work one of them is me and then the other person is my mom
00:15:43
Speaker
Like, I'm not even joking, you know? And I said this, my mom has somebody else's wedding photo as the background of her photo because she's like, I love this photo. I'm like, mom, that's not even me. Like, you don't even know this person, but that's your background because she loves my photos, you know? I'm like, hey, Catherine, my wife, I'm like, look at this photo of, this is so amazing, one of my favorites I've ever taken. And she's like, ah, that's cool.
00:16:03
Speaker
And I'm like, what you mean? That's cool. It's just one of those things, nobody cares. What they care about is how your photos make them feel. Maya Angelou, she says, people will forget what you do, they'll forget what you say, but they'll never forget how you make them feel.
00:16:18
Speaker
So Instagram, what I've decided to do is I see everything from the end user's perspective. How does my client, my target audience use Instagram? So what I'm gonna do then is I'm gonna meet them where they are, and that's how I'm gonna use Instagram. It's not about me, and so I guess this is good, because it brings validation to this, but if I were to bring up my numbers right now, and I actually do it because I'm a numbers person, and I would much rather give you guys legit numbers than to give you some kind of estimations.
00:16:48
Speaker
I'm in my Tave right now. This year for Instagram alone, I've gotten 114 leads and it's generated $181,000 in revenue just from Instagram. And so what I've done is I've actually gone to the end user and I've met them where they are and I've used relationships to do that rather than my work. So like I post
00:17:10
Speaker
Maybe once a week maybe maybe once a week maybe once every two weeks And so it's not about like how consistently I post it's not about what I'm posting But it's me and if you look my engagement is still extremely high on posting maybe once or two twice every week and so now the video I just posted it had somebody else's song so Instagram like
00:17:33
Speaker
Not banded, but they blocked it because it was somebody else's song, so that doesn't have that high of engagement. But my post before that, I'll have really high engagement because it's not about me posting and hoping they just come to me. It's me going to them, meeting them where they are, and feeding, and I don't know how long and what's your next question is, but I'm about to go on a little thing, but it's about me feeding the narcissism of our culture. I talked about this in the thing. It's like, okay, we really about to dive in. Is that cool with you, Davey?
00:18:01
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, so I wanna, first, can you answer the question that you posed in the beginning of the breakout, which is, how many people can you follow on Instagram? And so that was 7,500, right? 7,500 is the, yep, that's the answer. And Instagram won't let you follow any more than that, which I hate.
00:18:17
Speaker
Yeah, just before we before you dive in, I do want to kind of draw contrast to what one typically hears during an Instagram presentation, which is a focus on how am I going to get more likes? How am I going to get more engagement? And it's often by sort of a passive approach, kind of a lot of things that you just mentioned. And I just want to be clear, I'm not saying that these things are bad that I'm about to.
00:18:38
Speaker
Yeah, like having an aesthetically pleasing feed, posting somewhat consistently. So whether that be once a week or a couple of times a day, I will say that one of the great things about the algorithm, and I know people hate the algorithm for whatever reason, but it's nice because the algorithm lets you post once a week, but you could still be top of feed when somebody signs on. That post from last week could still be top of feed for somebody when they sign on the week after.
00:19:06
Speaker
So I do think that there is a silver lining to the algorithm there. Oh, I love it. I love the algorithm. We'll talk all about that too. And so this is why I appreciate this approach so much because it's more of an active approach. And again, less about you, more about seeking out people who could work with you. So with that said, I'll let you dive into it.
00:19:26
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's great. And I think that's super important because we will talk about the algorithm and how like, bro, the algorithm is my best friend. It's amazing. And so we'll talk about that with social media. But I was saying is like, we do live in a really interesting culture where, and I think the premise of what I do and why I do it is because I understand the end user and where their attention is and how they react and how they use Instagram and how Instagram,
00:19:53
Speaker
Affects them and so in 2016 the association of some kind of thing Psychological thingy place it said that they did a study on kids can't remember how many I think it's 32 kids between 16 and 18 they showed him 142 images 40 of them were theirs and so that's about roughly four to five seconds per image, but every single time
00:20:16
Speaker
one of those kids' images, their own image popped up on the screen and they saw affirmations, so likes on those photos, shots of dopamine flew through their brain. And dopamine is directly connected to the reward circuitry aspect of our brain. And so, and it also is associated with things like heroin and sex and drugs and alcohol. And what happens is it creates this addictive reaction in our brain to whatever is going on. And so like,
00:20:43
Speaker
Now hear me out, a lot of people go, well, Devin, that's deceptive, and I'm like, hear me out on how I do this, but also, they're gonna get it anyways. Like, they're gonna get that shot of dopamine from somebody anyways, so I might as well want it to be me. Now here's the part where I'm not deceptive about it. What I do is, I leverage that for my business and creating authentic relationships with people.
00:21:05
Speaker
I literally sat yesterday in Atlanta during an engagement session, and this girl, she's a painter, and I specifically told her, I go, I found you because of your paintings, and I thought it was really cool, and I started following you, and she's like, and then every time, she said this, she goes, every time you like one of my photos, I'd be like, oh my gosh, boyfriend, look, he liked one of my photos, he's commenting on my photos, and this is this guy, and it's so awesome, and so what's happening is, every single time I like and comment on that person's photos, there is an
00:21:34
Speaker
automatic association with this reward circuitry in their brain with my brand. And so when we don't talk about brands that book, if you can create that with your brand, then you're gonna book. And I walked into a wedding this past weekend, one of the bridesmaids, I had no idea who she was, she came in and she was like, oh my gosh, it's you. She goes, you like and comment on my photos and it makes me feel amazing. She literally, word for word, said that.
00:21:59
Speaker
Like, I never met this girl in my life, but when I walked through the door, she knew exactly who I was and how I made her feel. And like, that's how I generate and able to generate revenue with social media and Instagram is by meeting them where they are, feeding this, honestly, this narcissistic desire that they have.
00:22:16
Speaker
There was another statistic and it said 48% of people, male and female, will take one to two selfies before finding the one they want. And then it went on and it said 26% of females will take, I think it said between five and ten selfies, no five and seven selfies before they find the one they want. And then it said 7% of females will take 11 to 15 selfies before finding the one they want.
00:22:39
Speaker
So you better believe I'm gonna be the one that affirms the selfie that they chose out of 11 through 15 because that's the reason why it took them 11 to 15 selfies, right? Like they want the one that's gonna get the most affirmation on it. So you better believe that I'm gonna be the one that affirms that narcissism
00:22:56
Speaker
She has to take 11 to 15 selfies and so I do that through what I call authentic Streamlining authentic engagement like I'm not sitting there retyping everything over and over and over and over I actually use keyboard shortcuts So if you use an iPhone I can help you with this if you don't I have no idea where to find this for you,
Engagement Techniques on Instagram
00:23:14
Speaker
but
00:23:14
Speaker
If you have an iPhone, you just go to your settings, general, keyboard, text replacement, and I have things like where I'll say, you know, I see somebody get engaged and this is where the algorithm helped me. I've commented, you know, this text replacement can, but it's authentic. It sounds super authentic. It's not like rat snap or like killing it or whatever. It says like, when somebody gets engaged, I'll type dream wedding.
00:23:39
Speaker
One word, and I press space and a full paragraph populates and it says, ah, congrats, swooning over that ring. Enjoy planning your dream wedding. If you need anything, don't hesitate to let us know. We are so excited for you. And then it's like heart eyes emoji, firework emoji, ring emoji.
00:23:58
Speaker
like, flames, you know, like, all of those things. But it sounds really, really authentic for them. And like, it seems really authentic, so they always come in and be like, oh my gosh, thank you so much. And then, Davey, this is what I do. I go directly to the DMs from there, like, directly to that girl's DMs, and I type in another keyboard shortcut that says, Bride Freebies, and it says, hey, blank, and then I fill their name in, because I don't want to send hey blank. I fill their name in, and it says, let me actually just send it to you, because I actually sent a couple today.
00:24:27
Speaker
Let me see what it says here. It says hey, holy smokes girl. I'm so excited for you I saw you got engaged and wanted to say a more personal congrats. We have loved Following you and wanted to give you a free gift from us Here are some guides to help you plan your dream wedding and so I've taken like I've taken Jordan and Amy's engagement session guide and I've taken Caitlyn James a full guide and I've chopped it up I've left it really big but I've also chopped it up to give in more like palatable pieces and then I say full disclosure if you grab one and
00:24:55
Speaker
you will get about one email a week for the next two to three months, packed with value, helping you to plan your wedding from the photographic standpoint. So now what I've done is I've entered them, I've prefaced them to know that they're going to get entered into a sequence, but the sequence is going to bring a lot of value. So then every single week, she's getting, I'm building that like, trust, knowability factor with her that no other photographer is doing, nobody else. And so she's constantly being reminded of my brand,
00:25:20
Speaker
why I am the authority on wedding photography and weddings in general and why she should hire me because I know what I'm talking about and she's constantly seeing my work. And then I say, you do not have to book us and you can unsubscribe at any time but I have heard so many brides say how helpful it has been. I just hope it can be helpful for you. The bridal guide is all the smaller ones put together and it is legit.
00:25:42
Speaker
The only different one is the engagement session guide, but no matter how many you get, you will only get one set of emails. Enjoy planning your dream wedding, and if you need anything, don't hesitate to let us know. Not once across the board have I been like, email me. Let's talk about bookings. Let's talk about pricing. We'll send you. We'd love to send you. It's here. Give, give, give, give, give. This is for you. We just want to help.
00:26:03
Speaker
And so that builds this psychological concept of reciprocity that we all have that she goes, my only option now is to pay and then I'm gonna get somebody anyways, I might as well get somebody that I trust that knows that it's gonna do this. And so there's some relationships that I've built over years because I have fostered through authentic, like streamlining, authentic engagement where it's been like,
00:26:27
Speaker
I have one for anniversaries where I'm like, oh, happy anniversary to you too, you too, or hashtag goals. Another great year is in store for you. And they'll say, oh, thank you. And then I got another keyboard shortcut that says, yeah, girl, no problem, love following you, hope to meet one of these days. And I'm automatically put in this subconscious, looking forward to meeting you, looking forward to meeting you all the time. And generally they'll respond and be like, oh my gosh, I've loved following you, I can't wait. Stuff like that. And so that person's already booked.
00:26:57
Speaker
You know, like it's just a matter of time. So this is also the long game, but you can also do this with a short game. I actually had a venue, a girl, like, so Charleston, South Carolina, I love Charleston. They've got amazing venues. There's one venue that I absolutely love and I went to. So if some of you guys are like, well, didn't Devin, how do you find clients? And so,
00:27:15
Speaker
If you go to your location services I've I looked up this venue and I saw actually no I'd already followed her but you could do this through location services But this is a girl that I'd followed had engaged with me in the past like you know and I tried because she's definitely my target bride and she never engaged with me and then finally she is like I found our venue this is gorgeous so excited and then I posted on there and I said
00:27:37
Speaker
so glad you found your venue. You're gonna be the most gorgeous bride." And then I was like, now the countdown begins and it's exciting, whatever. That night she saw that, sent me an inquiry. The next day I met with her, she booked us. That's awesome. There's so much, I think there's so much to recap here too. One, again, just to emphasize, this is you going to them, you know, which I really appreciate. And it's not just like this one-off message and you forget about them.
00:28:02
Speaker
You know, like these are relationships that you've developed sometimes over the course of a long time. So I don't want it to, you know, with keyboard shortcuts and stuff like that, if people are thinking, oh, this sounds really transactional. Well, you know, it's efficient, you know, but I wouldn't say it's transactional. That's right. You know, and I appreciate the extra step of going to people and doing this.
00:28:22
Speaker
I do want to bring up one objection because it came up during the presentation. And so I know that especially for guys out there listening, they're probably thinking of themselves. And I remember I was standing right next to you, somebody came up, was like, this is awesome, but can it really work for guys? And the objection that we heard was, isn't it weird? I guess, doesn't it feel skeezy or something for a guy to be showing up in these girls DMs? But I thought your answer was great. So let's hear it. I'm a guy.
00:28:51
Speaker
There's the answer. I'm a guy and I do it and they know and I also will not put anything that I'm not 100% okay with my wife. My wife sat in that presentation and I read out DMs that I said to girls and my wife is totally fine with it because that's how I talk to anybody.
Authenticity on Instagram
00:29:08
Speaker
It doesn't matter. At that point, what I'm making that person do, though, is I'm also making them feel valued by my brand. It becomes a personal brand at that point, and it's not some kind of corporate, disconnected brand. It's a personal, this is Devin talking to me. Literally, I kid you not, I talked to the client yesterday, because we were talking, I mean, she's an artist, and I want to help her grow, so I told her about my strategy, and she's like, that's so true, because she goes, you're the only vendor that I never reference to your business name.
00:29:35
Speaker
Every time, actually her fiance said this, she goes, it was always Devin, it was always Devin. Look at Devin sent this, look at Devin just emailed us, look at Devin did this. And like, she knew I was a guy all along. And it became a very personal brand, not a skeezy guy sliding into my DMs, which I think is super important.
00:29:52
Speaker
I also wanna read this one to you, so I got an email, look at this, January 25th, 2017, from a girl, and she said this, hey Devin, I didn't share this at the conference, I should have, I feel compelled to write this email to you, not to ask for your services yet, but to tell you I find your story and work inspiring. I literally do not know how or why I found you on Instagram, and now I am a follower for sure, your photos are breathtaking.
00:30:16
Speaker
Outside of your photographs being outstanding, you interact with your followers on a personal level and why I assume that this is time consuming. It is worth it. I feel like I know you both from watching your videos, seeing your posts and always having a like from Anchor and Veil. It's that connection that lets me know that you put the maximum effort and love into each one of your sessions and that you will ultimately lead to me insisting I book you when it's my time. Strangers think you're awesome and I find you inspirational. Keep up the good work.
00:30:45
Speaker
Now hold on, Davey. April 5th, 2019, she booked me for her wedding in Vegas. That's awesome. And I think one thing that I really appreciate about this approach is that you're interacting with people how you would interact with them in real life.
00:30:59
Speaker
It's just things that we would do for real relationships in real life. We would never think to ourselves, oh, well, I'm just going to let all my friends reach out to me. You know what I'm saying? We do similar stuff on our websites and things like that. I talked a little bit about that during my keynote. If you're including something on your website that you wouldn't say in real life, it doesn't belong there.
00:31:22
Speaker
I don't know. I think one of the things that's just so refreshing about this is just the fact that you're taking normal relationships, normal things that you would do during relationships and applying it to something like Instagram. I know people are probably asking themselves because you do. You follow the max amount of people. You follow 7,500 people. I'm sure that people are asking themselves, okay, so I have an ideal bride or client in my mind. How do I go and find that person?
00:31:49
Speaker
Yeah, great question. So if you have an idea client and bride in mind, then you know where they go.
Using Instagram Location Services
00:31:55
Speaker
So for me, like my target bride goes to Bank of America stadiums on Sundays and they go to the Panthers games. And so what I do is I go to the location services and I type in Bank of America Stadium or Hornets, you know, like Spectrum Center, or even like the bars I know that they go to. All of my clients, really interesting, are like doctors, lawyers, dentists, but are
00:32:16
Speaker
super cool down to earth doctors, lawyers, dentists, business people. And so they go to like really cool bars. They don't go to like, you know, like I lived in Greensboro and when I was in college, I went to Green Street. You know, like they don't go to Green Street. Like they go to places like, like Inc. and Ivy and things like that. And so I will actually search in the locations, Inc. and Ivy. I know exactly what my target bride looks like too. And all of you guys do too.
00:32:42
Speaker
You're kidding yourself if you don't have like an idea of what your ideal bride to look like. And so like, and that could be tattooed and that could be whatever you want it to be. Black, white, Asian, it doesn't matter. And that's the great thing about Instagram. And so like, I go through and I will find, and if you look through the 7,500 people I find, you will see my target bride. And so like, I go through there.
00:33:04
Speaker
And I look at them, I click on their photo, and I go to their profile, and I like the next seven photos that they have, because I want them to see me. And then I will keep going through, and if they have a group of friends that look like they would be my target bride, I'll click on that photo, look at their tags, and I'll do the same exact thing to their friends. And then sometimes people will go, well, Devin, what if it's a private account? Do you follow the private accounts as well? And I say yes 100% of the time, because then it's a little bit different. Like the girl who
00:33:30
Speaker
I didn't have a private account. My follow could get lost in her likes and she wouldn't know, which is why I do a bunch of them and she wouldn't even see that follow. But if it's a private account, she now has to go to my account, look at my work, and decide if she wants to allow me to follow her or not. There is a much higher chance that that person's gonna follow me because they've gone to my account, looked at my work, than if I just showed up as a follow in their feed.
00:33:52
Speaker
And I feel like that situation, like requesting a follow-up private account, feels so much more awkward than it actually is in real life, right? And I think... It's normal to her. It's normal to her because she has to approve every single way. Yeah, exactly. So it's not like it's different. But one thing that I really appreciated you saying is, you know, what's the worst thing that's gonna happen?
00:34:14
Speaker
It's the internet, bro. It's not like she even knows where you live. She knows nothing about you. The worst thing that's going to happen is she doesn't accept your invite. And I've had that. And I've requested again. I've done that plenty of times. Yeah, on the second time, do people usually? Yeah, they have.
00:34:35
Speaker
But I think it's good to reinforce, have you ever had anybody call you out, anybody who you're following, anybody who you're messaging and being like, oh no, this is not right or whatever, stop messaging me or whatever. Never, literally never. I think I've had one person block me ever, ever, in three or four years I've done this. And who cares, it's a block. It's not like I'm like, oh my gosh, she blocked me.
00:35:02
Speaker
And that's, it's well over 75 of well over 7,500 people, you know, so yeah, that's, that's, uh, that's incredible. So as far as the time that you spend doing this, like, what is that? Like, is there a strategy there? Are you, and the other thing too, is like, at some point you have to decide to unfollow people because, you know, you, you can only follow up to 7,500. So what does that process look like too? I guess let's start with the time it takes you to do this.
00:35:27
Speaker
Yeah, great question, love that. Okay, so I'm actually going to show you how much time it takes me. I'm actually gonna specifically go to my screen time app. And I challenge, Davey, I challenge you to do this too. Okay, so like I challenge you to go to your screen time app because, and for everybody, because like they're gonna listen to this and they're gonna go, whoa, that's a lot of time on Instagram, maybe. So if I go to, let's take,
00:35:50
Speaker
Let's take, well this week, this week we're on a Thursday, so let's take last week, a full week. Last week, as a total, I spent seven hours and 27 minutes on Instagram, which is an hour and three minutes a day, which sounds like a lot. But I think a lot of people spend a lot more time, and a lot of time on Instagram in general, and don't make nearly as much money as I make on it. So like this becomes marketing for me, you know what I'm saying?
00:36:14
Speaker
And so that's just marketed time for me And you don't have to you don't have to let me know how much how much you spend but like I just challenge people to look at theirs Before being like that's a lot of time you spend on Instagram a day Devin when it's like you do too But you don't realize it now mine is also spread out throughout the day. We're like I've gotten this thing down to her like man I scroll like scroll like scroll like scroll like scroll like I see something that I have like a keyboard shortcut for I'll put a keyboard shortcut
00:36:38
Speaker
Scroll like, scroll like, keyboard shortcut. And then I go into the stories and people post in the stories specifically to be engaged with and it's way more personable in the DMs. Sometimes, if I know somebody has a huge following and they get engaged, I'll DM them their own post of them getting engaged with my keyboard shortcut on it so that they see it and it doesn't get lost in the hundreds and hundreds of comments they have.
00:37:03
Speaker
I feel like you've taken this to a whole new level. You've taken the Instagram strategy to a whole new level. Good. Yeah, as far as following, unfollowing people, how do you decide like, okay, maybe it's a lead that's not going anywhere. I assume that after people get married, you probably don't want to unfollow them because they're past clients. Nah, bro. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes.
00:37:25
Speaker
My clients, I don't unfollow. But if I see, like, look, the moment, the second I see that somebody I was following got their engagement photos done by somebody else, and I'm super petty with this, I'll, like, heart eyes their photo and then unfollow them right away.
00:37:40
Speaker
I'm like, all right, yeah, yeah, well, you could have had me follow. Hey, but can you leave them with the hard eyes emoji? I do. Look, I do leave them with the hard eyes. You're right. That's right. And so I do that. And that tends to balance it out. But then sometimes when I go on like following sprees, I either have to go back and like unfollow people. But there is an app, it's called cleaner or something like that.
00:37:59
Speaker
and it allows you to look up people who have been inactive for the past 30 or 60 days. It takes a long time for it to populate that. And then I will actually go through that list, because some of those people that are inactive, I've still created pretty good relationships with, so I have to go through that list, whitelist those people that I want to keep in there, and then delete the ones that I don't really care about anymore that have been inactive. Awesome, and is there anything else about this strategy that I haven't brought up?
00:38:26
Speaker
that's worth mentioning before we start to wrap up here. I think there's never, my wife, and this is a really popular thing to say now, but it says, in a world where you could be anything, be kind. And so one thing that I really love to do is I'll slide into the DMs with the keyboard shortcut, and it just says, and these are for people that I've already established a pretty decent relationship with,
00:38:50
Speaker
And it is say like, hey, I hope you have an amazing day today. You just popped up in my feed and I just know nothing but great things are in store for you today. So have an awesome day. And the response to that has been incredible for me. Like people being like, I needed that today. That was so amazing. Thank you. One girl was like, my grandfather just died and I really needed that. And like, so for me as a brand to do that, those people aren't hiring anybody else, nobody.
00:39:16
Speaker
because their friends aren't even doing that. And so for a brand to do that, I think means a lot. And so in a world where you could be anything, where you could do anything with your social media, be kind, because it's a world where social media now is becoming filled with hate and with people just putting each other down. And so stick out in a good way like that.
00:39:35
Speaker
I guess I do have at least one follow-up question here. As far as the Instagram strategy goes for your brand, is this mostly or all you reaching out or do your associates do anything similar? No, this is just me. This is just me. Okay, awesome. So people may come in through that and then book, end up being booked with one of your associates.
00:39:55
Speaker
Yeah, so I put, and some people would discourage against this, but I put on my initial inquiry form, oh, also, y'all, y'all, some of y'all that turn people away in the DMs and they're like, oh, your listeners gonna hate me, man. Hey, look, just so y'all know, listeners, I keep it like 100 all the time. This is, like, how you hear me right now is how I'm in person, is how I'm in my groups. I just, I don't have a filter and I don't care. Now, I try to be nice, though. But, like, for people who put it in their, like, bios and they're like,
00:40:22
Speaker
For inquiries, don't DM me. Email me. I'm like, you're just creating a ridiculous barrier for people to book you. Let them DM you. They won't hate you because this is something that I've said multiple times. If you're going to show up somewhere, then you need to expect to interact with that person. That's a grand irony, right?
00:40:40
Speaker
People will complain about low engagement on Instagram, or Facebook or whatever it might be, and then they'll get a Facebook message and it's like, I feel like I see this post at least once a month in random Facebook groups, photographers in particular, where it's like, this bride reached out to me on Facebook message and I really wish she would fill out my contact form. How do I get her to go fill out my contact form? And I just think to myself, we're all looking for work.
00:41:08
Speaker
Like, you show it up on Facebook or you show up on Instagram because you want somebody to inquire and book with you. And if you're showing up there, you should be responding there as well. So send her an email back and start a conversation just as you would over email. And then at some point you can say, hey, I think the best way for us to stay organized is like, I would say, can I send you an email? And then that way you move the conversation over to where you want it.
00:41:31
Speaker
So I don't think anybody listened out there. That's not the first time they've heard that. The other thing too, I want to say is you are, yes, absolutely 100%. What you see on stage at United is what you get one on one with you and what you get in your Facebook group. But you have been
00:41:48
Speaker
Nothing, but kind you know I feel like people use that I just don't want people to get the wrong impression where you know because you sometimes you sometimes hear people say oh Yeah, yeah, I just keep it real I don't care what other people think or whatever and it's an excuse to be a jerk And I just you know like I've never had an interaction with you where I felt like okay He's just being a jerk. Thank you. I appreciate that. I do appreciate yeah, I do appreciate that I want people to know that real quick my response to people that do DM me and the do semi inquiries in the DM I
00:42:16
Speaker
I do say, I say like, hey, like I get real personal, I go, oh my gosh, like I am over the moon excited to get this like message. This is insane. Love following you. And then I say, what is your date and like, so like, what's your date and location? I want to make sure in your email, I want to make sure we're available. And then I say, but if you do have time, something that really helps is if you fill out this form, because on that form, I also say like I differentiate between me and my prices.
00:42:41
Speaker
and my associates' prices. So that right there helps to pre-qualify them for the fact that they may not be able to afford me, but you can have my associates. And so people generally come in and don't have an issue with that at all. Because I'm building a very personal brand where they're like, Devin, Devin, Devin, Devin, Devin, and then how do you translate that into associates? And so that's one way I do that, and there's a couple other ways, but that's not what this episode's about.
00:43:04
Speaker
I am interested in that because this is you on Instagram, this is you building the relationship with people. I have to imagine that some of that revenue are people who have booked because of Instagram but ended up with one of your associates.
Ensuring Brand Experience Through Team
00:43:17
Speaker
I would say that probably, and this might not seem intuitive to people, but I think it is if you think about it, people have built so much trust with you that if you tell them, hey, my associates are awesome, they've been trained up by me, you're still getting the anchor and veil experience.
00:43:34
Speaker
people are going to transfer that trust to your associates. And that's the exact wording that I use and so I talk to all of them like I do so people would be like man you talk to every single inquiry that comes in I do because we're such a personal brand I have to transfer that trust. Now I've got it down to a absolute science where it's like a 14 to 15 minute conversation and I never talk to that client ever again and it's like but I in that conversation I transfer the trust
00:44:02
Speaker
to my photographers by saying they are trained by me, we have a dedicated editor, and then I say I'm going to hand select, like based off of our conversation, I'm going to do hand select the photographer that I think is best for you. And then for them they're like, oh, done, okay, cool.
00:44:18
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I think it's so important, especially if you're going to do work at volume like you do, Devin, to have those systems in place that you have because otherwise you would spend an inordinate amount of time on Instagram without keyboard shortcuts talking to brides if you're the one talking to every single couple that comes in through the door. I think it's so important to have systems like that. They can feel, I think at the outset when we hear about them, it can feel impersonal.
00:44:46
Speaker
But I think there's still a way to make it very personal, to treat people as you would in any other relationship. But for the sake of just our sanity to make it efficient. Yeah, for sure. Anyways, I feel like there are so many other aspects of business that at some point we'll need to talk about. I love business. Hopefully at some point I'll be able to get you back on the podcast and hopefully it won't take another 60 episodes or whatever we're at right now.
00:45:14
Speaker
I really appreciate your time. Could you tell people where they can learn a bit more about you? Yeah, my education group. Just go to the, like it literally is everything. I mean, I don't hold anything back in there. I will post graphs, I will post whatever. And I also have a whole section in the unit section. It's like a mini workshop that walks you through. It's like 10 or 15 videos of just a lot of content. And they're all like eight to 10 minute videos. They're not like an hour long, but they all like really good videos. I think they're well done.
00:45:42
Speaker
and have a lot of information for you in there, and it's all free. So just join that Facebook group, Anchored Education or AnchoredFB.com. Awesome, and if you have questions about this episode, feel free to leave them in the comments or the show notes, or head on over to Devin's Facebook group and post them there. He shows up, again, one of the things I like about his Facebook group is that he actually shows up on a consistent basis answering questions, interacting with the people in that group. So I'd love to hear, I'd love to hear what you think, especially about this Instagram strategy, because I just think it's so different
00:46:11
Speaker
than everything else out there. So thanks again for your time, Devin. Thank you, man. Thanks for having me on. Thanks for tuning into the Brands That Book Show. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing and leaving a review in iTunes. For show notes and other resources, head on over to dvandchrista.com.
00:46:39
Speaker
you