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The Symphony of Mind, Mood, and Movement: A Holistic Path to Performance with Sal Jeffries
6 Plays10 months ago
Embark on a transformative journey with Sal Jeffries, where the fusion of mind, mood, and movement takes center stage. Sal, a renowned human performance and behavior specialist, brings a wealth of knowledge from his expedition through the realms of yoga and psychotherapy. As we unravel the threads of his personal narrative, we uncover the essence of his integrative approach—where psychology meets physiology in a dance of personal advancement. His insights on blending strength training, breathwork, and emotional health into a symphony of self-development offer listeners a rare opportunity to enhance their well-being through a holistic lens.
Venture further into the depths of self-exploration as we discuss psychological safety's pivotal role in nurturing growth and expanding perspectives. Sal's early brush with philosophy and his embrace of non-duality principles present a compelling narrative that challenges us to reframe our experiences and manage stress more effectively. He shares spellbinding success stories, including a media company owner's transformation from anxiety-ridden to authentic through breathing techniques and a reshaping of internal archetypes. Get ready to shift your understanding and discover how the interplay of internal and external narratives can lead to profound personal change.
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Transcript
Introduction to Jimbo Parris and Sal Jeffries
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everyone. I'm Jimbo Parris. Welcome back to the Jimbo Parris show. Today we have a special guest, Sal Jeffries. He's an instructor focused a lot on health, wellness, and yeah, we're going to learn a lot about him today. So yeah, let's bring him on. How are you Jim? So, you know, who are you?
00:00:21
Speaker
That's a good question.
Sal Jeffries' Background in Human Performance
00:00:23
Speaker
So my name is Sal Jeffries. I'm a Brit. My field of work is about human performance and behaviour. So I cover psychology.
00:00:33
Speaker
Emotions and the body. So I look at these kind of three spaces. Traditionally, when we think about psychology, we've got mindset coaching, how we think, all the mental structures, that's blending into more of the therapeutic stuff, the psychotherapeutic arts. Emotions is in that space as well, but I also blend into the physical side of emotions, which are breath work and how we breathe to how we feel, because our state is a physical experience as well as a mental one.
00:01:01
Speaker
And I'm very interested in how our body operates, how it functions in life and in business. So how our physiology is from our muscle structure to the shape of our body, to our energy levels, to our mitochondria. So I'm also a strength and conditioning trainer and a very long time yoga teacher.
Holistic Approach to Mind, Mood, and Movement
00:01:18
Speaker
So I look at the human system as this mind mood and movement kind of triage and work with people in that context. So what first got you involved in this field?
00:01:31
Speaker
It's a great question. It goes back right to childhood. So I remember being seven years old, like really young and curious about the world, curious about other people, other children at the time. And I never felt like I fitted in. I was always that person who saw things a little differently, didn't quite vibe with the crowd. And I remember thinking, I've got to work on myself to fit in with people. I've got to work on who I am as an individual.
00:01:56
Speaker
And I was a child, you know, we in back where I grew up, we didn't have any of this kind of emotional or psychological development. But I had a quest in me at that time to figure out how how I roll and what does what makes up the human mind, the self, this feeling experience of life.
00:02:13
Speaker
So that quest started really young, really young. It became a professional quest much more. I've done many things. I've worked in advertising that field. I run my own businesses in the fields of photography, had a very successful photography business for nearly 10 years.
00:02:29
Speaker
But the real trigger of shift happened when I got to my late 30s. I got involved with yoga. And if anyone's practiced yoga, it's a fantastic discipline physically. But it gets you connected to your body. So it gets you very much out of your thinking mind into your physical body and breath work as well. You can start to control your state. And I was a high functioning, probably high anxiety individual, super pumped.
00:02:53
Speaker
And learning how to control that state became an absolute gift. So that was really this big shift interval. Oh, let's, let's learn more. So I went on to become a yoga teacher. I've got fascinated. I've retired from my photography business and some years in, I realized that a classroom where I was teaching yoga and people would come in and they'd be all stressed. We'd do a lovely practice and they'd leave looking great. They'd feel great. And I was like, wow.
00:03:19
Speaker
They'd come back the next week looking stressed. And I'd often think, have you not learned anything to apply? And I realized that a lot of the time we need to understand things psychologically.
00:03:29
Speaker
So while yoga is a great discipline, understanding the mind, how we literally think, how we see the world is vital. So I applied to get into what's got a postgraduate and a beyond degree level qualification in psychotherapy.
Integrating Mindset, Training, and Health
00:03:41
Speaker
That was a three, four year course. And that was the basis of all the psychological work. And then I blended that over the years to come with the bodywork. And in more recent times, seeing how we breathe, seeing how a person moves physically,
00:03:55
Speaker
tells me a lot and helps us develop the human system really well. So many people look in the, I guess, fragmented areas. So you might go to your mindset coach for particular work and you might go to your PT for another piece of work.
00:04:09
Speaker
But if we link them, you get this really powerful, cohesive effect of growth. And it's not done so much. It's very much in our Western culture. We're very atomised. We've got specialists everywhere. And actually the generalist, the synchronist, the person who sees how systems work, actually, in my view, is the one that's taking things forward, certainly in the world of emotional health and personal performance.
Value of Being a Generalist and System Interconnection
00:04:34
Speaker
I think I remember the saying, a jack of all trades is better than a master of one. I think something along that lines, it's a jack of all trades, not a master of one, but still better than a master of one. So it's some saying like that.
00:04:52
Speaker
Are you describing yourself as sort of a polymath, if you know what that term is? I do know what that term is. I'd be careful to label myself a polymath, but it's toward that way of being. I think the expression you're alluding to is, I remember it certainly growing up was, if you're a jack of all trades, you're a master of none.
00:05:13
Speaker
because it was about if you if you could do everything you're actually not a master in any field and i suspect there's some truth in that so if you went to you know a cardiologist they're really good with hard stuff if you go to a sports scientist they're really good the data on sports people or a business coach they're very good around business strategy
00:05:31
Speaker
And there's a place for that. The problem I see, certainly with human performance and the emotional space, like how do we think and feel into our world, is that actually the human system, it's a brain, nervous system, fascia, muscles, biochemistry, which creates all the emotions, and all the thoughts, all the sort of subtle.
00:05:52
Speaker
It does work as one. So when we look at how human performance is, to look at it in isolation misses the fact that it works in systems and what I call an ecosystem effect. So there is absolutely a place for specialism. However, specialism can be isolated. So it can separate things out and leave things out.
00:06:13
Speaker
sweet spot is to look at both. So look at the whole picture and then go, do I need to zone in? Do I need to work on one particular area more? And that's what I aim to do when we look at the mind area, the emotional area and the physical area. So there's a place for both.
00:06:28
Speaker
Generalist, I think we can look at, it used to be a bad term. If you're a generalist, you're nobody. But I think a generalist can hold space for a lot of things. It's a really skillful way of maneuvering through the world, how you think, how you feel, how you act. And some people are natural generalists. So it used to be shot down as not a great thing. I actually think it's a really healthy thing and it's one to leverage.
00:06:52
Speaker
A polymath?
Yoga, Eastern Philosophies, and Mindset Change
00:06:53
Speaker
Well, I love to learn, Jimbo. I spend all my time reading, I learn. The more I learn about subject, the deeper it goes. And of course, I think the definition of a polymath is being an expert in multiple fields. It's all work in progress, but that certainly is the trajectory I feel is important for me. I'm thinking back to when you were talking about also there being psychological aspects that might influence people to struggle.
00:07:21
Speaker
Do you think yoga can perhaps fix a broken worldview? It's a really good question. The yoga worldview and very much the Eastern worldview, so I practice in martial arts over time and had people who might feel doing things like Qigong and martial arts.
00:07:38
Speaker
I think that Eastern view of collective and ancient and understanding from those arts and disciplines can really teach us a lot. There's nothing wrong with our Western scientific view, it has a great place and it's brilliant in so many ways.
00:07:54
Speaker
The problem is there are a lot of issues in the world, you know, mental health issues, performance issues, climate issues, and it would suggest that we're missing something. And if we take a complete systems view and see how a system works and know that the system had their own way of being, then I think there's a lot to learn from yoga.
00:08:13
Speaker
I think it's a sweet spot to have the right mindset, whether you go to the gym or the yoga class, because if your mindset is, I'm going to learn, I'm open, I'm curious, there's stuff's going to come in, it's going to be good for you about your running your business.
00:08:28
Speaker
Whereas if you've got quite a close mindset and that rigidity, that's where problems generally come up because we get fixated like we believe this is correct or I don't believe that works and then we're not open, we're not adaptable. And the thing that intrigues me, so we know about neurogenesis, which is the brain grown new brain cells through cardiovascular training and learning.
00:08:50
Speaker
We know that the body can adapt. You go in a gym, lifts and weights, your muscles change. If we create the right conditions, our human mind-body system is an adaption system.
Body Awareness in Therapy for Anxiety
00:09:00
Speaker
It adapts to change. So if we get sweet and understand like, oh, how does it work? What can I do to help adapt those changes? Then it's very, really powerful. And it's, yeah, you're for sure, those worldviews from yoga can help open us up. But any worldview that's different from our own, I think is a healthy start to expand. Interesting.
00:09:19
Speaker
so are there any weird therapy experiences you've encountered plenty i've been had um
00:09:29
Speaker
my own experience in therapy as me as a being therapist and I'm obviously in my own therapy. I think the weirdest thing started for me was when my sort of school of psychotherapy was looking to talk to the body. So if someone, if you're feeling anxious about something, perhaps the pervasive view is there's something wrong with your mind or something up with your mind, it's a thinking issue.
00:09:52
Speaker
And I remember my old master, she would be, she'd say to me, okay, and where's that in your body? Where's that connected in your body? Now, I have a reasonably high level of kinesthetic awareness, so I can feel my body. Some have more, some have less, but... And that question, I remember the first time I was asked here, and I said, yeah, yeah, it's not about my body, it's my thinking. And she was like, yes, but your mind is embodied?
00:10:15
Speaker
the brain and the nervous system throw through the body. All the connective tissues and the muscles have got information streams that go back to the brain. And there are people called, it was Dr. Ernest Rossi did a lot of work in this. More recently Antonio Domazio, he's a neuroscientist, looks at the body does something like a physical expression, like a sensation.
00:10:36
Speaker
along with how we think. And to start with, it can seem a bit odd. People asking you about what's happening in your body as you're dealing with a challenge at work. But actually, there's a connection somewhere that your body is doing that once you get used to it, it's the most normal conversation. So for sure, at the beginning, anything new can be alien to the human mind. Human mind's like, oh, I don't know that, so I don't like it. I can't trust it. It's a threat detection system kicks in.
00:11:06
Speaker
But it doesn't mean it's not worth knowing or worth trying. And I think that's why some of these weird and wacky things. Yes, I've been chanting, tried Reiki, all these various different modalities and been curious. Something seemed to have worked. Acupuncture worked for me many years ago and other things haven't worked at all. So I think one of the interesting things is if the mind is open, maybe something will be good for each of us if we give it a shot. How do you think people can
00:11:34
Speaker
have an open mind. Safety. An open mind is predicated, we need to feel safe. That's the first fundamental human need if we don't feel safe. And I'm talking mostly about psychological safety in our modern world, not a physical safety I hope for many people, but
00:11:53
Speaker
physically we need to be safe full stop but mentally and emotionally you need to feel safe it's a it's safe for you to ask me a question or i'm trying you know so we're in a safe space and and i feel okay i feel safe if for any reason we don't feel safe such as i might be judged uh i might be humiliated i might look silly
00:12:12
Speaker
I might not know what I'm saying, so I don't want to speak up. Any of these natural human phenomena that we all have, if we don't feel safe enough, then we can close down. We go back to what we know, our belief structure, our cultural upbringing, and then we're locked into an ideology or worldview. So first and foremost, to shift worldview is how can we help a person feel safe? I see you and I'll listen to you and I'll listen to hear what you're going to say.
00:12:42
Speaker
as opposed to, I won't listen to you and I'll shut you down. So creating safety is our first, I think if you're looking to help someone over in the world view, create safety. If you're wanting your world view to grow, find safety.
Personal Challenges and Overcoming Fear
00:12:55
Speaker
How do you think your seven year old self would view you now?
00:13:00
Speaker
Oh, that's a lovely question. He'd be fascinated. He would be fascinated. He'd be fascinated because the world that I grew up in, I was born in the early 70s, so I've been around a long time, and that future that was put out that I was going to live into and that should live into and do all these things, it's a very different world now. It's a very different world. Some really good stuff about this new world we live in and some not so good.
00:13:30
Speaker
I think he would have loved the fact that I've had to overcome so much fear. I was very much born around a lot of fear patterns in my life. My parents were born in the war, second world war, there's history and trauma from that. So there's lots of things that kind of carried through and as I've got older and understood how these things work,
00:13:49
Speaker
I've been able to face them. And that sweet young kid, I think he would have loved the courage I've finally been able to develop as an adult. I think he'd be fascinated that I understand the human mind and I generally love that world because that wasn't on the table at school. We learned the boring stuff, maths, English. They didn't teach us like, how do we think? How do we feel? How does the world really operate? So I think he would be fascinated if he was to me
00:14:18
Speaker
modern day me about what I do and how I've had to overcome a lot of stuff. It hasn't been easy for me this life. It's been challenging in many ways and that's why I lead and I hopefully bring strength to other people and give gifts to other people of skill and knowledge because they weren't there for me when I was growing up and I like to impart that as much as I can. Is it okay if you could go deeper into those challenges? Sure. So what types of challenges were you going through?
00:14:48
Speaker
at that young age? I would say the biggest challenge was feeling different, feeling out of the crowd. And I'm actually not feeling safe either. There was a lot of quite rough kids where I grew up. It was bullying and that kind of thing. And as quite a gentle kid who was into playfulness and dreamy, Star Wars was out when I was a kid, loved all that stuff.
00:15:12
Speaker
You know, bashing people and getting to fights was not how I wanted to be. And yeah, that was a lot of the male environment I was in. So yeah, I think being out of the group.
00:15:25
Speaker
unable to be part of this much more, let's say, quite aggressive behavior, very traditional masculine behavior, was not only confusing, it was also quite scary, which meant I didn't know what to do, I would shut down. You got to hide away, which we know in modern terms is the freeze response. So when did you start embarking on your journey to
00:15:48
Speaker
this kind of Indian philosophy? Well curiously, I lived in a place for some time in my early 30s and they had what's called a philosophy group.
Influence of Indian Philosophy on Beliefs
00:15:58
Speaker
A bunch of people met up on a Tuesday night and they taught philosophy. I'd always been curious about philosophy. I never had the privilege to do it at school. It wasn't what they taught at my school. I went to a very regular school.
00:16:09
Speaker
But I was always curious with philosophy, so I went along and when I didn't realise they were connected to, so it was called the London School of Philosophy, and they're connected to the London School of Economic Science. And I've learned over time that they're actually closely connected, economics and philosophy, certainly this school.
00:16:25
Speaker
And they used what was called a Dwaita Vedanta, which means in Sanskrit, non-duality, as their basis, what they kind of taught and shared, and they added in other things such as Socratic thinking, all the kind of philosophical thoughts. But it was really based around an Indian principle about non-duality, because in our world, certainly in the UK where I grew up, there's a lot of duality.
00:16:51
Speaker
and this Indian principle about well actually there's a oneness and I say oh that's really intriguing it sounds like the force from the star wars or the dao from chinese or um universal consciousness there's lots of labels we call this you can call it the zero point field in quantum physics but this connection really intrigued me and
00:17:13
Speaker
So I kept going and went every week and I went for eight years. I was going to go for like, you know, a couple of weeks and just meet some local people. And I went for eight years and that really was the start. So we got into the yoga, yoga connected philosophy to some degree first. And then after that, I got involved in the physical practice of yoga.
00:17:31
Speaker
But when we look at non-duality, it's very interesting about thinking that things have a connection at their root. So even like male and female, for male and female energy. For example, yin yang, most people know the yin yang symbol.
00:17:48
Speaker
Curious in our Western culture, we say yin and yang as if it's two things and it's incorrect, it's yin yang, it's one thing with two different aspects or different polarities. So when we look at it through that non-duality, it's not yin and yang, black and white, male and female, it's yin yang, it's male-female or black-white.
00:18:09
Speaker
So there's this cohesion and I thought, and this was a really beautiful understanding that helped open up my thinking around arms. So maybe things aren't as separate as I thought. There's a lot of connection in our deeper way of being. And that's a really heartwarming thing. It leads to connection between people, between us and the planet and all the connections, as opposed to we're separate and we're different.
00:18:36
Speaker
So if Indian philosophy was a soundtrack, what would it be? Great question. For me, it would be something like melodic beats. It would have rhythm, it would have pulse, it would have layers, and it would have continuity. And it would have this kind of flowy, flowing nature to it.
Client Success Story with Holistic Methods
00:18:57
Speaker
Tribal, in a way. Perhaps almost into a trance-esque sound. That's how I would hear it.
00:19:05
Speaker
So now that you sort of solidified your career, do you have any big client success stories? Many. Yeah, many. So many of my people I've worked with coming to me with a stress issue, a problem issue. Normally there's something that's not working. They're stuck.
00:19:25
Speaker
most people come to me roughly around the age of 40. It's a curious thing. There seems to be something around that time of life where people have an existential problem or existential question. They might have a job or they might have a business and they have a family that there's something, it's like an itch in the mind that's waking them up and it's like there's something up, there's something wrong and
00:19:51
Speaker
I had a guy not too long back and he was a successful media company owner, very dynamic business, certainly today's world with a lot of media being, you know, just a powerful force, successful on the surface, you know, running a company, high net worth. And yet I'd carried this story from his childhood that he just wasn't good enough.
00:20:15
Speaker
And then the overriding emotional pattern was high anxiety. Now, if you went to a regular doctor, he would have probably been given a label of generalized anxiety disorder or some of these labels. There's a place for labels.
00:20:29
Speaker
but labels are static and anxiety is a dynamic thing, so it doesn't quite fit in my experience. And we worked on the expression, like, what do you do with your anxiety? How do you breathe is the first thing. If I've got a person who's mouth breathing and upper chest breathing, they're in the stress response. If I can teach them the fundamentals about a nasal breath and a diaphragm breath, we are already changing the physiology of the stress response. Super simple, changes so much. So we start there.
00:20:58
Speaker
And then we unpack this person's journey. And the narrative that they held was they had worked so hard to prove themselves. And some of the payoffs were, well, you've got lots of net worth and you're really successful with your business. But the success was a little empty. They just didn't feel good enough or bad enough.
00:21:18
Speaker
So we did the deep work, the question around the story. So we got the anxiety pattern starting to come under control, start to understand the trigger of the anxiety. What's at stake? What is threatening you? And then the more and more we got to that deeper level, it was, it's a really cute thing. It's about connecting to archetypes. So for this individual, the archetype of the father and that relationship to his father and what his father meant to him,
00:21:46
Speaker
And it's not so much his actual father, but the idea of the father that he's got to be this because his father said that. So when you live in one of these archetypal patterns, then you can look at those. That's what I look at. Are you operating from a victim archetype? Are you coming from a savior archetype? And then look at the archetypes with gentleness and go, is that relevant today? Is it relevant in your business or in your family?
00:22:11
Speaker
And what's at stake if you didn't do it? So then we start to unpack. It's a little like putting on different clothing. You might have a clothing to go out and clothing to go to work. It's understanding the psychological clothing you wear and realize, is it right? You wear gym wear to the gym, not to the business meeting. So it's the same with your mindset and that's the archetype you bring.
00:22:33
Speaker
And the curious thing, the more we unpack this, this person went from being highly stressed and he'd had stress he said since childhood into his early 40s. So we're talking 30 plus years of an adult's life who's caused him unending problems. In a year, of course he has anxiety. It's a natural response, but he has an anxious response when it comes and it comes up and it drops away. We're done.
00:22:59
Speaker
He's on his way now. I don't need to coach him anymore. And this person now is strong. He's self-aware. He's confident and has a sense of peace. And that is such a beautiful thing to have. Money can't buy a sense of peace. So yes, and many people I work with have these chapters of life that we have to go and understand and then bring it up to date. This has been an excellent interview. Thank you. To end this off, can you maybe give
00:23:28
Speaker
a pivotal transformation moment that you had that might help influence the audience here as well.
Practical Exercise for Self-Awareness
00:23:36
Speaker
What I'd love to share is a very simple yet profound process that I invite my clients to do and invite you and your listeners to do.
00:23:44
Speaker
that really captures this philosophy and practice of looking at the mind and looking at our emotions and body as one system. And it goes like this. So if you're listening now and it's safe to do so, check in first and foremost with how you're breathing. It's the easiest go-to. So start to notice how you're breathing. So both this tunes into our emotional state and our physiology, our physical body. So notice how you're breathing.
00:24:11
Speaker
Feel the body, as if your chest moves, your diaphragm moves, the air coming in and out. And start to bring your attention and ask the question, what's happening in my body? What do I feel? And do I feel warm, achy? Sitting on a chair, standing up, what do you physically feel? Start to connect with the physiology of you.
00:24:34
Speaker
The muscles, the weight of your arms if you're holding them up, the feeling of your jaw muscles, your skin, feel your body. So what's happening in my body is question number one. And you start to connect with that, simply with interest.
00:24:50
Speaker
Then you can start to connect with how do I feel emotionally? You might be stressed, you might be curious, you might be tired. It's all, ah, that's interesting. That's where I'm at right now. This is how I feel. So we're becoming self-aware and it's this witness consciousness.
00:25:06
Speaker
So rather than I have anxieties, I'm having a hot feeling in my cheeks, my shoulders are tight and I'm starting to feel unsafe. It's a better description. So what's happening in my body? What's happening in my emotions? And then lastly, go to your mind. What's happening in my thinking? Are my thoughts all over the place? Am I judging somebody? Am I judging myself? Am I binge thinking, like thinking, thinking, thinking?
00:25:33
Speaker
Can I be interested in that thought process? That's interesting. I can even watch my own thoughts. How clever am I? Very clever. And this act of noticing from physical, emotional to mental can really, really help get us present and into a conscious state such as I can relax a little bit right now or I need to be strong because I've got a challenging event coming up. I've got this.
00:25:57
Speaker
If you dial into those three spaces, take a couple of minutes, so much comes online because we are using the prefrontal cortex of the brain. We have connected all the neurons into the muscles, into the fascia, our breath under control, and we start becoming conscious, present, open human being. That's a really powerful place to come from. So I invite you, Jimbo, and I invite our listeners today. Three questions. What's happening in my body?
00:26:23
Speaker
Check that, what's happening in my emotions, check that, and what's happening in my thinking. And when you've done that work through, notice, I guarantee something will shift. Could the act of noticing is an act of separation which gives us some skill and a lot of control. All right. Thank you again, Mr. Jeffries. And I'd also like to thank everyone else for watching this show. I'll see you next time. This is JPTV.