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#100: How Important are Soft Skills in Safety?
193 Plays1 year ago
Fighting the “safety cop” stereotype can be a difficult task. This is especially true if you are trying to build your new career in safety. Nadia uses her natural leadership and relationship-building skills to unite her coworkers for the common good. Nadia Ullah Morin is a QHSE Lead at a water technology manufacturing company, with a background in biology, chemistry, and crude oil quality control testing. Although she may be new to the profession, Nadia shares the skills she learned from day-to-day team building, pushing back on the safety cop mentality, and paving her way to being a true leader in the EHS world. Learn how you can use your soft skills to bring people together and make safety everyone’s job.
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Transcript
Introduction to Nadia Ulamorin
00:00:08
Speaker
This is the Accidental Safety Pro brought to you by HSI. This episode was recorded December 16th, 2022. My name is Jill James, HSI's Chief Safety Officer. And today my guest is Nadia Ulamorin.
Nadia's Journey to Safety
00:00:22
Speaker
Nadia is a QHSE lead at a water technology manufacturing company with a background in biology, chemistry, and crude oil quality control testing. Nadia joins us today from Texas. Welcome to the show, Nadia.
00:00:36
Speaker
Hello. Thank you, everyone. Thank you, Jill, for having me. Good afternoon. Well, you're so welcome. So happy to have you here. Nadia, you are kind of new in this EHS profession. I think you told me you've been in it about three years now.
00:00:54
Speaker
Yeah, just about three years. Wonderful. It's always nice to have someone with a new and fresh perspective on the industry, on the show. It happens every once in a while. And so I'm so glad that you decided to do this with us. So tell us, like, what's your winding path? How did you, you know, how did you even get toward this? Do you want to start in college or do you want to start before that? What's it look like for you?
00:01:24
Speaker
I guess I would start, in my mind it starts in college, but yesterday I was talking with my husband about leadership in general, and then I realized I think my desire for service started even in high school. But from a technical aspect in college, I studied pre-med and biology. And just in my mind, I was like, you know, just the classic I want to help people trope.
00:01:52
Speaker
And year four, I had switched my major to medical humanities instead of plain biology. Interesting. Yeah, so I thought like, okay, maybe being a doctor is not the only way, but what about the patient-physician relationship or more behind the scenes in terms of how to support clinical settings? So I knew that studying medical humanities would allow me to expand my thinking of how I could help people. I just wasn't exactly sure
00:02:22
Speaker
why or how I would do it. And then I actually ended up
00:02:27
Speaker
leaving college for a bit, having a, I guess, sabbatical, you could say I had a child. So
Early Career at Whole Foods
00:02:33
Speaker
then going back to school about two years later, just to finish college. I was so out of my element, didn't know. I knew at that time after having a kid and going back to school, okay, I don't want to go to medical school anymore. That's not something I want to pursue, but what can I do? So I started working actually at Whole Foods.
00:02:53
Speaker
in the bakery. And it was such an amazing culture, like a work culture to be introduced to, first job out of college. And it was, you know, an introduction to food safety, but safety was not even on my mind at the time. I was still like, okay, how can I make my parents proud? Like, what can I do?
00:03:15
Speaker
But I really enjoyed what I did, working with amazing teams and being able to make people happy. I'm decorating some cakes every now and then, but mostly just technical work in the bakery, nothing groundbreaking. From there, my husband had really encouraged me. He's like, Nadia, you have a science degree. What else do you want to do? What can you do? Just fix your resume.
Passion for Science and Safety
00:03:38
Speaker
So I was like, OK.
00:03:39
Speaker
Yeah. And Nadia, just to pause for a second, you had mentioned a couple of things I wanted to ask you about. You're saying your husband is encouraging you to use your science degree, and you said a moment ago that you really love the sciences. Talk about that. What did that mean for you to love the sciences?
00:03:59
Speaker
I loved innovation and the possibilities and how people were able to discover things and what drove them to do research and to have breakthroughs. To me, science is not just about the bench or
00:04:16
Speaker
and data, but how people can analyze data. And I felt like this was so creative to me. And I love painting and I love the arts. And so still I felt science was a way to exercise that creativity in a way that could be functional to me. Yeah. Yeah. And so when I really,
00:04:36
Speaker
Yeah. And you had, you had also mentioned that you had, you made a discovery in high school about, you know, your want to help people, which I feel like we're kind of weaving into that. You know, you said you, you started working for Whole Foods and they really had a great work culture and you liked doing the service piece of the piece of it. What turned you on to like that discovery as a young person that you knew you wanted to help people?
00:05:02
Speaker
I grew up as a first generation American, so my parents came from, my mom came from Venezuela and my dad came from Bangladesh. So they really inspired my love for education. They're like, hey, you know, we came to this country so that way you could really have a great chance at educating yourself and being someone and doing something great.
00:05:23
Speaker
So I felt like, okay, when I'm at school, I really want to make the most out of it. What can I do to contribute? Because I really felt like the best way to pay back my parents for all of their sacrifice was to build myself into someone who could make a bigger impact. So in high school, and yes, all of my friends had
00:05:45
Speaker
convinced me to do the JROTC, the junior army class. I loved it. I just loved how specific and technical it was. Your uniforms had to have all this certain very small spacing, one-fourth of an inch centered. Everything was so technical. You like processes. I do. I really do.
00:06:11
Speaker
And so I loved the ROTC thing and I started as a freshman and I became the unarmed drill team commander by the time I was a junior in high school and at the same time I was like really heavily into art as well. So just I always had that balance of where can I be free and expressive and then where can I be technical and just strict to the point.
00:06:34
Speaker
And so in high school, yeah, I loved the ROTC and leading my team. So that was something that I found that the leaders before me were so inspiring. Like how can we bring people together? Because you can tell someone all day, Hey, you know, your uniform has to be perfect or hair, your movements, all of our like marches and everything turns super sharp.
00:06:57
Speaker
You can tell people that all day, but truly the beauty was in motivating people and bringing them together and being able to inspire.
Recognition in Crude Oil Lab
00:07:06
Speaker
And so I really loved that about ROTC. And so when I went to college and I was like, okay, I just want to do sciences. I have so much respect for science and research, and I just wanted to be part of something bigger, I guess. And science to me is like,
00:07:22
Speaker
this like, oh, like shining, like shining laboratory I always think about. And yeah, so when I got to Whole Foods, I really loved the bakery and how technical even just like, oh, you got to check the freezer temperature every so and so hours and record it on this log. And I just, I don't know, I just thought it was cool. Like I find a lot of fun in the mundane, I guess, because I love the why. It's satisfying.
00:07:48
Speaker
And then so after that, I actually was approached to learn how to do third party quality control testing for a crude oil laboratory. And it's a it's a global company that they do certifications of your your oil like we would we would what is what's the word?
00:08:09
Speaker
crude oil assay. What is the distillation? Yeah, sorry. So we would distill the crude oil into fractions and then we would do a whole slew of tests. And then that's when I got to like put on a lab coat and really get into there and get dirty. And I remember the first time that my lab manager told me, she said, Nadia, you are an excellent chemist. And I was just beaming because it had been a few years since I got out of college. You know, I had been working in a grocery store.
00:08:39
Speaker
So I finally was like, oh wow, okay, like there's some, I'm moving forward. I'm moving into a path. I'm not sure what that path is, but I'm starting to do more of what I like and I'm exploring. So I did that, it was a contract. So I did that for about a year. And that's where I was saying, hey, I want to talk about this Aniline story because there are a lot of harsh chemicals in this lab. And since I had worked in, just in chemistry labs in college,
00:09:06
Speaker
I and there was not everyone working in that third party lab had a degree they could just have like technical experience so I was such a stickler for compliance in terms of like the fume hood and I would be like okay guys who left the fume hood open you know can y'all please put down the sash and there is this chemical in there that it binds to the hemoglobin in your blood and it will basically suffocate you like from the inside
00:09:35
Speaker
And I was so scared about it! I would be shaking. Yes, I would be shaking like doing the test under the fume hood because it was like whatever you had to like double glove and like put your put your arms into the fume hood and just do the test in there but every now and then if the aniline got empty you had to be very careful like open the fume hood and like refill it and I never wanted to do that because I just was like okay this is scary.
00:10:03
Speaker
What if I spell it and it's this big container? Yeah, exactly. So I just remember our departments within the QC lab, we would take turns having to submit safety reports. They were called crystal reports. And so when it was my team's turn and they were like, OK, Nadia, it's your turn this week. You can submit, you know, whatever your safety report is. I went off on everything that I'd seen in the lab because that was like my last straw, like this aniline hood, like, no.
00:10:31
Speaker
And I wrote like a full page of just, okay, I saw this and like I said, I would try to include how I was attempting to correct it because there was something else. Like someone left acid in a tube out in the open, out in the back of the lab. And so all these things. And then like a month later, my colleague was like Nadia and she brought me this printed piece of paper. Like they had published my safety report without my name on it, but on their like company newsletter. And my face was like,
00:11:01
Speaker
purple. I was like, Oh my God. But I was like, Hey, would someone listen? Like, you know, they wanted to do something about it, but I felt like, okay, maybe I'm not. I was like, Oh wow. I felt so like complex emotions because you know, you don't want to be that annoying person that wants to keep people safe, but someone has to do it. So that was like my first introduction to like the importance of safety, but also the complex emotions that come with being safe.
00:11:31
Speaker
not everyone wants to hear it not everyone like at the moment will care or they're just like okay we have work to do but I was like no like this is really important and I I want to be safe yeah and I just was like if I don't feel safe working here what about the other employees especially the ones who don't have the same chemical background as I do
Career Shift to Water Technology
00:11:49
Speaker
Like, how are they going to keep themselves safe because you're not constantly supervised? Like sometimes we're working until one, two in the morning. So yeah, so there was that and the lab manager who did safety, he was so compassionate and he would come and just talk to us. And so I never had like any kind of, I never knew about a safety taboo, like stereotype at the time. Like to me, my safety lab manager was amazing. So I really respected this man. He was great.
00:12:19
Speaker
After your report was published without your knowledge, did things change? Yeah, I did see a lot of lab managers kind of on their toes more. I guess they probably got like a talking to after that. I don't know. Yeah, but I also saw a change in how I was treated a little bit. Like, oh, is Nadia going to be troublesome because she's going to like call us out on all this stuff? Is she gonna
00:12:48
Speaker
cause more of a ruckus than she's working, kind of. And I was like, oh, you know, well. Well, it sounds, Nadia, like you were being clear, you know, like you were being clear. You found your line in the sand as a professional and you stated it. You stood in your power and in your opinion and, you know, as, you know, my favorite Brené Brown says, clear as kind. And so you were clear.
00:13:13
Speaker
Oh, I love that. I'm going to write that down. And you know, it's funny that you mentioned that because I had to learn how to do that again, but as a safety professional, like as someone whose job it became to do that. So I do want to come back to that. And so that I kind of, you know, wasn't thinking about safety after that, after I went to another lab. So my contract was over.
00:13:38
Speaker
And then I worked in a completely different environment where it was a research lab for improved oil recovery and there were like two other people, tiny lab. So I go from this global third party lab to this like three person lab that had no
00:13:54
Speaker
structure because it's R&D. They didn't have anything written down, so they hired me on so I could help implement what I had learned in that, you know, bigger laboratory. So I was helping them refine their processes, record what they were doing, and
00:14:10
Speaker
like create procedures out of their testing. And so that was a lot of fun. And I just helped them kind of make a chemical inventory, consolidate SDS, like things like that, that to me were standard lab practices. So I was just kind of bringing some of that to there, but it was, you know, very relaxed rather than, you know, what I was doing before. And then the pandemic hit. And so, you know, you can't work from home when you're working in a lab like that as a lab tech. So I was just home for like three months.
00:14:37
Speaker
And then I had applied to be a lab tech at this water technology manufacturing company.
00:14:45
Speaker
On the interview, I was so nervous because I was just like, okay, I've only worked in two labs, what am I going to do? And at the last question that he asked me, he was the VP of R&D. He's like, where do you see yourself in five years? And I was not prepared for that question, Jill. I don't even know why. I was like, oh, I could see myself being a lab manager or being in safety.
00:15:11
Speaker
And why did I didn't even know why I said that because I've never thought about being in safety before that. But it was almost like my life was just telling me where to go. Like, so, so funny. There must be some safety guard that put those words in your mouth that we didn't know about existed before. And so he called me back like a few days later and was like, well,
00:15:33
Speaker
We went with another candidate for lab tech just because we were looking for a little bit more data manipulation, but we would really like to bring you on for QC because you do have that background. And I was like, okay, great. So I didn't even care. I was like, okay, I'm happy to just start working. So I started working in QC and it's like warehouse job, you know,
00:15:57
Speaker
Like just very rugged kind of work like getting wet and dirty but it was a lot of fun because I was able to ask a lot of questions about processes and standards because this company kind of shifted from an R&D type of model into
00:16:16
Speaker
commercial manufacturing or more of how can we start structuring to take our company to the next level. So I was able to do what I did for the other lab but on even a bigger scale like okay well you don't have these processes or these standards like what can we do to pave that way from a quality control standpoint like how are we verifying our data what are we doing
00:16:36
Speaker
And they loved that. And I was so glad to just be useful and to contribute. And we'd gotten like a new VP of operations at the time. And I had just introduced myself. I was like, oh, hi, I'm Nadia. Do you need any help with spreadsheets? Because I can do that. And then he was like, what?
00:16:55
Speaker
And so he like, I was in my mind writing down all of the things I wanted to implement, and I was like, Okay, I'm going to make my case so I can try to become like the QC lead. And then he took me into his office like a month or two later and was like,
00:17:11
Speaker
Okay, I want to talk to you about doing health and safety. And my jaw just dropped. Like all my notes went out the door of like everything I was trying to convince on the QC aspect. And he told me, I can teach you the skills that you need to learn, but I can't teach someone else how to have your ambition. So I want you to, to do this and train to do this.
00:17:34
Speaker
I was so inspired and I felt like, wow, this is amazing. So of course I just absolutely all hands on deck. Let me do that. I will try my best. I have no idea what I was in for, but I really could have never expected this opportunity. I mean, it was the grandest opportunity of my lifetime.
Creating Safety Programs
00:17:54
Speaker
Like it paved my career and I'm always so grateful, like indebted to that, to this company and to that mentor. Like I viewed this man as my mentor. So.
00:18:04
Speaker
Um, over the next year. Thank you. It's, I mean, it's, it's, I'm so, you know, I didn't expect it. And like, I always think back to that interview where I was like, Oh, safety. And then like, here I was, I was like, okay, yeah, maybe I can, you know, maybe this is it for me. Like what I can really do. Yeah. I mean, and professionally, Nadia, the things that you've been talking about where you, you really have been helping organizations kind of build things that never existed before and helping from the ground up.
00:18:31
Speaker
And that's a beautiful skill to have. That's a great skill set to have. I mean, it's especially in, you know, you weaved your way eventually into EHS, but you set a foundation for yourself to know that I can build something from the ground up. And in our profession, more often than not, many of us start out our careers being the first person, or you stepped into a system that's, you know,
00:18:58
Speaker
Maybe has a little bit of this a little bit of that and you you do have to build things from the ground up So you had that foundation set for yourself. So that's wonderful. So yeah, talk about talk about what happens now You're you got your first official safety job
Navigating Independence in Safety Role
00:19:12
Speaker
yes thank you so much so yeah after that that was like navigating that journey it's been phenomenal and it's been more character building than i could have ever imagined because he was so right like all those other skills and technical things like you can learn how to read osha standard you can learn how to do all that and you don't have to memorize it you know that's the best part like you can
00:19:37
Speaker
know where to find the tools and how to give that out. But the hard part, it was, okay, there's so much to build and do. Where do you start and then how do you keep it up? How do you get everyone on board? Because our company culture was
00:19:53
Speaker
it you know there was not even a requirement of like when you step into the shop do you have to wear safety shoes and so you know where i came from before is like you don't go in there without full glasses ppe whatever it's not it's not a crude oil lab but you know salt water it's not terrible but there are some chemicals there's definitely a lot of slip trip fall hazards with working with water
00:20:15
Speaker
And so I just had to really consider what my mentor asked me one day. He said, Nadia, what can you do right now that will have the biggest impact? And that was almost three years ago that he introduced me to that question. And I still ask myself that today because there's always going to be more to do. But yeah, so when I started.
00:20:39
Speaker
There are some key learning points or key things that I really had to think about, like as I was reviewing everything that I've learned and done. Yeah, share those. Yeah, share those. I mean, this is really good information for our listening audience, especially people who are starting out like you.
00:20:57
Speaker
okay so one of them was going from that mentorship and having that approval into like how do you put the wind in your own sails so to speak because after about a year and a half my mentor separated from the company and so he gave me so much solid feedback on my work to where he wasn't just helping me in that moment he was really helping me grow
00:21:23
Speaker
and then it was gone and then I had you know reported to just a number of people and everyone had their own way of wanting to do safety and then so I had to understand like what is the difference between approval and feedback because yeah and so at first like okay it'd be like oh wow you know we never had an incident reporting program we never had this training and
00:21:49
Speaker
like great job Nadia pat on the back and then it's like crickets for a while and I was like okay you know trying not to let me not take this personally like is it because I'm doing a good job I'm not hearing anything or is it because I'm not you know I just I had to like take a step back from myself and really think about like the program and the employees and that was hard because that like people don't teach you
00:22:13
Speaker
how to not need approval anymore and so there was that and then so for a while I kind of felt like where's my backbone or like my courage because everyone wants safety done a different way and then it's like well at my old company we did it like this well we'd used to do it like that well no that's too much Nadia you're too in the weeds we don't need all that detail let's just do this
00:22:37
Speaker
So after, you know, for a little bit, I was just like conceding to like, okay, you know what, that's how they want to do it. Fine, we'll do it that way. And then it doesn't work. And then I'm like, okay, you see, like, you know, and so then I'm like, all right, where's the balance between, of course, I want the all the feedback from both employees and from management, but
00:23:00
Speaker
Where do I say, I am the safety professional, even when sometimes I don't feel like it. I, this is my job. No one else is going to stop you and say, Hey, I know that this is going to hold up production a little bit, but we need to, you know, install a guardrail right here because you can't have this bay door open and have this, like, you know, like over four feet of like fall.
Fostering Safety Culture
00:23:21
Speaker
You can't like, you know, there are things like that. Like we didn't have all kinds of stuff. And so just to say, okay, well, you know, in the beginning,
00:23:30
Speaker
I, one of my coworkers said, oh, you're the safety person. Everyone hates that guy. Jokingly, you know, I love that. I love that person. They become a good friend of mine. But I was like, no, I don't want to be hated. That's so naughty. Yeah, I know Nadia. This is like, this is the bane of our existence as EHS professionals. You'll hear this over and over and over again.
00:23:54
Speaker
in your career and it's so wonderful that you've identified like, where's my backbone? Because that just, it's cliche. And then when something goes wrong, everybody wants you.
00:24:07
Speaker
Okay, seriously, yes, exactly. That's just how it works. I'm preparing to go to a Christmas party tonight, and I'm not going to know a lot of people, and people are going to say, what do you do? I'm going to say safety, and they're going to go, whoo. And that's the same response you get everywhere in life. And that's what I've heard. And so that was like, oh, okay. I heard it in the beginning, and then I had to live through it. And I was like, this is...
00:24:35
Speaker
I want to be friends with everyone, but I will say that I have been able to make this position my own. Like I, at least here, I can really say like I fought against that safety stereotype because it didn't, it didn't work. Like to say like Nadia, my manager, I remember he was like, you need to go hair, teeth and nails. No, what did he say? Skin, teeth and hair? I don't know what he said, but I was like, what are you talking about?
00:25:05
Speaker
But he's like, no, you need to be more assertive and just go for it and make them be compliant. And especially when you can't depend on, I guess, not that you can't depend on management support, but that you have to work independently outside of just assuming or expecting. So I had to really see,
00:25:33
Speaker
I guess let me backtrack to when I started, when I took on the safety role, my, my boss was like, Hey, so your role is going to be giving them the resources, setting up the program and then like letting them help you. They're going to run it. Like you just kind of show them how to do it. Okay. That sounds easy enough.
00:25:52
Speaker
That is not how it went exactly. So yeah, so then I'm like midway into like this, you know, trying to build this program and I'm like, Hey guys, I thought it was going to be, you know, me giving you the resources and rolling it out and then you are going to take it from there.
00:26:07
Speaker
in an ideal world. That's how we all aspire it to work. Yeah, ideal world. Yeah. And I would say like, it just took a little bit more navigating to make that true. So what happened was then, you know, maybe like a year and a half into building this
00:26:26
Speaker
I was very hard to keep things going or to have consistency. And so I had to understand, okay, I can't be upset that it's hard for them because it's new for them and management too. So that's what I mean. It's not that it's lack of support, it's that it's new for everyone.
00:26:46
Speaker
At the same time, we're also trying to create processes for every other department. I mean, engineering, R&D, manufacturing, purchasing, supply chain, everything. So there's a lot of newness and process going on. And so instead of me, I had to realize, okay, I cannot just sit on the sidelines and expect people to just do it because I said, hey, it's good for you.
00:27:11
Speaker
So being more hands-on and so this is where I say I fought against that stereotype of like you just have to do it people aren't gonna like you whatever because that wasn't working like being distanced or isolated from them especially emotionally it didn't help them connect with why safety was important and so
00:27:31
Speaker
I was like, you know what? I'm going to get to know them, get to know my colleagues, get to know the shop employees. And that way when they see my face, it's not just, oh, Maddie is about to tell me to do something. So I would just get to know them and go out there and talk to them about their, I get to know like about their family. What do they do for fun? What about their weekend?
00:27:51
Speaker
And in those ways, I was able to show them, I deeply care about them and about their safety and their health. And that I'm like this all the time, not just at work, you know, and that I just want the best for people. Because if you can work safely, then you can go home and be creative and expand your life. And so I wanted that for them.
00:28:12
Speaker
And then I got to do that and lead with compassion and lead with humor and fun. And that's when people started being compliant and when they started doing it because they're like, okay, Nadia is not just asking me to submit safety reports because she needs to fulfill this quota of participation. It's because we want to work together to have all eyes on the floor to understand the conditions we're working in because it helps everybody.
00:28:39
Speaker
Being in safety is being a motivational speaker. It's being a leader that like, how can you bring people together and bring forth their strengths?
Building Safety Relationships
00:28:49
Speaker
Those are ways that I never knew I was going to build my character as a safety professional. That's right. Relationship building, that's a skill that if you have that with a good safety background, that's where your power is.
00:29:04
Speaker
That's where your power is, is being able to build those relationships so you can do exactly what you're talking about, to let people know that you care and you're being able to transfer this knowledge of, I care about you and here's why you need to care about this so that you can take care of yourself and go back to your family. And that's a magic gift.
00:29:25
Speaker
to be able to have that and you know many of us in this field talk about our relationship building skills and the way that people do that and then you know there's of course a group of EHS professionals that we might call the safety cops you know who really don't have a lot of relationship skill building
00:29:45
Speaker
and you know it'd be interesting to know like is there a study like how successful are the are the people who are just busting jobs versus building relationships so you're you're nailing it early in your career and that's beautiful
00:29:59
Speaker
Oh, that's so amazing to hear. And that's so true. And I think that's what I thought safety would be like, like more, I guess, people expecting you to just kind of go out there and be a safety police. But yeah, it's so much more. And I'm so, I'm so glad to know that my soft skills have such a place like in this field, right? And like, and
00:30:25
Speaker
I'm just really grateful that like it all worked out and came together in that way for me. And yeah, so in building that program and building these relationships and then the next step is like, okay, so yes, we need to identify the gaps in our compliance, but also the various reasons for those gaps because I got to know people. It's like, okay, in some instances, let's say something simple like wearing your safety glasses in the shop.
00:30:52
Speaker
Alright, some people are not wearing them because they don't know where to find them. Some people are not wearing them because they keep losing theirs. Some people just literally don't care because they don't understand the importance of them, so like training.
00:31:06
Speaker
I had one friend, you know, he was my friend, he was my colleague and one of the biggest favors he did for me was he said, okay, Nadia, I just want to know what happens if I don't wear them. Like, what are you going to do?
00:31:23
Speaker
Yeah and I'm so glad that he had the courage to bring that to my attention and I remember like one of the upper management had heard that he had that question and he was livid. He's like what like you know why is he having such a
00:31:41
Speaker
like rebellious attitude like that's not indicative of someone who wants to be part of a team and I had to really have my my co-workers back and say hey he's he's actually not pointing that out just to be rebellious he is pointing it out so we can deeply consider the culture that we're building
00:32:00
Speaker
Are we trying to build compliance just saying like, Hey, like no matter what you wear these glasses when you come in here. Like, you know, of course, like we want to have some things be so routine that we can like put our energies towards, you know, bigger development, bigger things. But he was really saying like, okay, um, what happens from here? You know, we're building this program, but in what ways are we trying to instill change?
00:32:26
Speaker
And literally what is going to happen if I don't wear them because nothing was happening. There wasn't any kind of repercussion or discussion or anything because no one wants to be the bad guy. No one wants to say, I know you've been working here for a year and you never had to do any of this and now you have to, you know, do all the things. And so I had a conversation and I just was like, well, you know, first of all, like I'm not
00:32:53
Speaker
I'm not your manager. I'm not HR. I'm not going to get anybody in trouble for anything. I'm going to simply report the facts and I'm also going to be able to give you the resources like do you want to look through and see why we decided to have safety glasses as like a bare minimum for coming in here like this is why we're doing XYZ and like this is why we
00:33:16
Speaker
have this kind of be representative of a bigger picture. And
Linking Safety to Company Success
00:33:21
Speaker
so then I did a presentation on hazard awareness after following this conversation with this person where I was really thinking like, okay, what can I do now for for employees who also probably feel the same way. And so I found this kind of like organizational flow chart thing. But the point of it was, like how you do one thing is how you do everything.
00:33:46
Speaker
And it showed how in companies in these really top performing companies, and it didn't even matter the industry, the companies that were top performers also had top tier safety programs. And so you could measure someone's excellence through their safety program. And it just kind of made sense because if you can learn to do one program really well, especially something that
00:34:11
Speaker
It's like not just about compliance but participation and that's like the root of your culture is like caring about people and having like something be interactive and and like all hands on deck and where you really leading by example. I mean it has to be like safety is one of those things where it's like we're not always going to be watching you but how will you
00:34:32
Speaker
behave and how will you treat your colleagues when I'm not there, like asking you to, you know, do the safety huddle or to wear this XYZ. And so, you know, in the endeavor for our company to excel in terms of like our actual product and our services, like how can we create our safety program to reflect like what we're trying to do?
00:34:56
Speaker
Nadia I think the things that you were pointing out in this in this story you're talking about you know like why do I have to do this you know the employee's asking well what's gonna happen what's gonna happen if I don't do this and you know you also pointing out like you want employees to perform the way that you train them and per policy when no one else is looking right and you also pointed out that you as the EHS professional in your organization you don't have a
00:35:26
Speaker
you don't have a stick, right? Like you don't manage these people. And that is so common with our professional practice is like, how can we influence people to do what is needed when we don't manage them day to day? And so, you know, if we asked five different EHS professionals, you probably
00:35:45
Speaker
get five different responses. You were using the power of your relationship building to get people to perform the way that you wanted them to perform. Someone else might say, I report my findings to managers, which is also part of your answer. Others may say, I report my findings and then we have a disciplinary policy that we follow to the letter and we are
00:36:12
Speaker
you know, maintaining records on those things to keep us out of jeopardy and out of hot water. And all of those answers are acceptable. And it's good that you're noticing that early in your career because this is an important piece. This is an important piece of the circle of, you know, keeping people home, getting people home safe and healthy every day. So this is wonderful. So what's happening
00:36:37
Speaker
with your career now. What things are you tackling? Like you were saying, you know, you're always reevaluating, you know, what's the biggest thing I need to be working on now? What does today look like?
00:36:52
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great question. So today looks like, all right, we are nearly to the finish line of like fine tuning the foundation of our program. And it's something to where I can really think about, okay, after compliance, what comes next?
00:37:13
Speaker
and being able to evaluate like my consistency because also like our employees you know I want them to fight complacency so I have to be the first one to fight complacency you know so like trying to catch it before it
00:37:31
Speaker
not falls apart but like you know trying to keep it all together while okay now what can we do so now that we are you know putting the bells and whistles on all right now we have the policies we have the plans we have a first responder team we just finished putting together congratulations thank you yes so exciting we got to
00:37:51
Speaker
have like a hands-on training for 10 of our employees in-house. We did first-aid CPR AED and blood-borne pathogens and that's the first time we ever had like that kind of group training that was you know maybe like four hours long and we actually you know having the mannequins because you know I'd started during the COVID era so we didn't couldn't do a lot and so that was a lot of fun and so that is like I see the first steps towards this like
00:38:19
Speaker
community safety like this camaraderie of like all right now we're the first responder team like let's meet once a month and so it's almost like gearing towards having a safety committee and that's I think on the horizon for us as a company like being able to now you help our employees help us so I can't be everywhere at once and so now that the foundation's there it's like how can I get people excited to
00:38:46
Speaker
help me keep tabs on everything you know in such a way of like developing this program so we can all now participate in our safety like not just in terms of observations but giving them more responsibility so things that I used to do by myself
00:39:02
Speaker
Now, how can I have this small but growing community in the workplace where we can work together in safety? Because that's really how it should, not that it should be any one type of way, but ideally safety is everyone's job. That's right. That's right. You planted seeds and it sounds like they're beginning to grow.
00:39:20
Speaker
Yes, yes, I love that. So that's exciting to me because now also I can help other departments like cross collaboration with sustainability and like learning about ESG. So
Continuing Education and Sustainability
00:39:33
Speaker
I had gone to a safety and sustainability conference recently and
00:39:40
Speaker
That was the first time that I was able to develop myself professionally that was like voluntary and elective. You know, it wasn't just taking an OSHA class for work, but it was expanding myself professionally. And so now I can really think of ways I can strengthen the program, like just from behind the scenes in ways that aren't so concrete and being able to learn from other professionals.
00:40:04
Speaker
And so that is something that I would love to take back to my workplace. What are ways that I can get out of this bubble of my day-to-day job, but think about where's our future a year from now or two years from now? And how do we start really being able to trust the data we're collecting? Because now we're finally collecting data. We didn't have that before. Then what are we going to do with it? Those weren't questions that were in my mind before I went to that safety and sustainability conference.
00:40:34
Speaker
I was never thinking like, well, now that you're collecting data, what are you doing with it? How do you leverage it? And that's something that we didn't have the privilege of considering before. Are you talking about the conference where you and I met or a different one?
00:40:47
Speaker
Yes. And so with that, you're talking about data and collecting it, and sometimes that sounds like new territory to certain EHS professionals, particularly as it relates to the use of technology. And have you gotten to a point where you're using some technology in your work, Nadia?
00:41:09
Speaker
Yes, and I'm not sure how it compares to other companies, but we do use a safety software to at least collect incident reporting and observation reporting, and then we can use that to do hazard evaluation for the facility and make a risk profile.
00:41:27
Speaker
Wonderful. Wonderful. You know, you know, our profession, you know, you're, you're new to our profession. And if you asked a whole, a whole bunch of people, you know, like on a spectrum, like, how do you, how do you collect your data, people will give you so many different answers.
00:41:43
Speaker
Some of it is in technology, some of it's on its spreadsheet, some of it is extremely manual and our profession has been so behind technology wise compared to other professions within same industries. We've been using different software programs for a millennia and then along comes EHS going
00:42:05
Speaker
wait a minute what we're using a clipboard or we have you know excel but there are those tools and resources for us um and and they are widely available to use and so it's good to hear that you're that you're leaning into technology this is this is good Nadia good
00:42:21
Speaker
I do love a good clipboard though. Well, you know, I do, I do too. I do too. And unfortunately it's spread into how I raised my child. You know, here's your list of chores and it's on a clipboard. You mentioned a bit ago about your own professional development. So I wanted to ask about that. How are you, how are you finding ways to teach yourself?
00:42:47
Speaker
Yes. Great question because it's something I'm still considering. So, you know, open to asking you the same, like how will I, you know, continue to teach myself? But I, so I signed up for
00:43:00
Speaker
the OSHA 511 class earlier this year. And when I was there, I really asked those other students about their backgrounds. Because again, I could take that class online. I could learn a bunch of stuff just Googling and researching and reading all these safety websites, but just leaning into people because they have all of the industry knowledge and the hands-on experience, like what works and what doesn't.
00:43:26
Speaker
And then I'm really wanting to learn more about policy writing and about even just how these safety rules came about. So one of the things that I'm inspired to delve into is my OSHA instructor said, OSHA is a book of standards written in blood.
00:43:47
Speaker
and I it yeah like it really just made it so real like we with some of these things just become so routine at work but
00:43:58
Speaker
Oh my gosh, you know, not for the people who, who lived through some tragic things and have seen, seen a lot. And, and I never want our employees to go through that. So in terms of learning and how I plan on expanding myself professionally, I'm trying to just be an octopus. I don't know. You're like, reach out every arm, like, you know,
00:44:18
Speaker
sometimes it feels like I'm in the dark like trying to just see what like what can I do what can I learn but I really have learned to just I guess trust myself like one step after the other because I've led myself here so far and so I think as long as I'm leading with intention and having a desire to seek and grow and to observe and listen I know it sounds so
00:44:45
Speaker
No, it doesn't. Those octopus arms are not ever going away in this field because I don't think we're ever done learning. There's always more to learn, so I think that's good. Don't feel like you've ever arrived. I've been at this 28 years and I feel like, gosh, I still have so much more to learn.
00:45:03
Speaker
Nadia, you mentioned the OSHA 511 course, and for anyone who's listening who's like, oh, I wonder what she's talking about. Do you want to talk a little bit more about that? And I'm guessing you found it at an OSHA training center.
00:45:15
Speaker
Yes, so of course. So it is a class on how to interpret the standards, and I took the one specifically for general industry. So how to find information, how to find like basically the categories and the subtopics that are applicable, and how to read the book.
00:45:36
Speaker
So it doesn't teach you, okay, what are all of the rules for, you know, the workplace, but it will teach you how to interpret when a rule might say, okay, like you shall versus you should. So when you read something, okay, you shall means this is not optional. Or if you should, you know, versus like, okay, yes, you must or you may. And so before, if I read that, I would have never considered the difference between you may do this or you must do this.
00:46:04
Speaker
And so, yeah, I took that class, I found it online and then they had some in-person and some online options, but it was through like the UT Arlington School of Development. And so they were just coming in through Houston for four or five days. And I was like, yes, I want to do that. I like to be there in class and being able to ask questions.
00:46:27
Speaker
So I did that and it was really amazing. And also it helped give me so much peace of mind because I was the youngest professional there. So I felt so behind and I was thinking like, oh, everyone has this class like right out the gate. And then I was like, oh yeah, I'm going on three years in the industry. And people were there that had been safety professionals for six years, 10 years, 15 years. And I was like, oh, okay, I'm not doing so bad.
00:46:56
Speaker
Mm-hmm. That's wonderful. That's wonderful. Yes, so the 511 class, so what you're talking about are the OSHA training institutes. And so anyone listening who's like, how do I find that? You can go to OSHA's website, theosha.gov, and search for OTI, OSHA Training Institute. And they're strategically placed around the country
00:47:17
Speaker
Often in community college settings, which it sounds like Nadia, yours was in a college setting, kind of a pop-up where the class was offered. And so you can find those courses all over the country. And that was wonderful. Having a good standards class and knowing the difference between shall and should, that's gold.
00:47:39
Speaker
The class was super helpful, not just in what I learned bookwise, but the people that I met. I still have those connections and I've actually been able to call or text a few of them since the class has been over to ask, hey, how do you do this? That's a way to continue your education for sure. You had mentioned earlier about the history of where some of these things came from.
00:48:00
Speaker
And that, you know, the history of workplace health and safety does predate OSHA. You know, OSHA is 52 years old now. And there were efforts afoot before OSHA happened. And you're right, your instructor was right. A lot of the laws were written in blood. Absolutely right. I've written a law myself, also written in blood.
00:48:25
Speaker
But there is, interestingly enough, and I'll remind our listening audience, there is a historian for workplace health and safety. His
Storytelling in Safety Training
00:48:33
Speaker
name is Mark Catlin. He's been a guest on this show, I think three times. He has a YouTube channel where he curates information that he finds in the National Archives about occupational health and safety and its place in history.
00:48:53
Speaker
That's so neat. It is, right? Like there's an actual historian. That's really cool. And that just, it reminds me like how diverse this field is and how deep you can go. I mean, it's really amazing.
00:49:11
Speaker
I think, and I don't know if it's true, but one of, I was trying to find some safety fun facts to open up a presentation with. And it was like, they had used like a sheep's bladder for some kind of, I don't even know if the word, like if it was a respirator, they were using like, they were making PPE out of like animal skins and animal parts. And I was like, what? And it just goes back so far. And you can cut that out if you want to. So random.
00:49:39
Speaker
No, it's not random. That's great. You know what? Finding ways when you're training people and you're trying to teach people in an organization in ways that are going to engage them, this is important. And sometimes that means digging in the way back machine. I was doing a mercury abatement project for an employer I worked for a bunch of years ago in the medical industry where we were trying to get rid of all the mercury in this clinic setting.
00:50:08
Speaker
And people are like, oh, you know, I love my mercury containing sphagnomometer to take blood pressures. And I'm like, yeah, but we spilled it twice and it's a neurotoxin. And they're like, you know, like, how do you get how do you get people's attention? So I dug into history a little bit.
00:50:25
Speaker
and discovered that mercury was something that was used medicinally in the way back machine to try to calm people's upset stomachs. And so like President Lincoln took something called blue mass pills. That's what they were called, Lewis and Clark.
00:50:43
Speaker
took these mercury containing pills. Since mercury is an element and it can neither be created or destroyed, how do you think we found where Lewis and Clark went on their travels? We followed essentially their excrement. Where were Lewis and Clark? Because those mercury droppings, literally, they were putting into the earth while they were traveling, they were able to follow their trail.
00:51:13
Speaker
my jaw is on the floor. Right? Right. And so, and so, you know, that's the story I led with in this mercury abatement thing or like, you know, you spill this stuff. It's not going anywhere. And this is a this is a bad deal. And it's a neurotoxin. Anyway, so that story sticks in my head. And so I think I think being able to find those things in our work is important, especially when we're trying to make a point.
00:51:36
Speaker
Yes, that's phenomenal. And that just attests to the creativity and storytelling skills that we learn to just really exercise as safety professionals. Because yeah, no one's gonna forget that at all. No, that's wonderful. It's stuck in my head for sure. Yeah. Oh, so not yet. Yeah, go ahead. Oh, I was gonna say no, I remembered it was a face mask out of the like sheep's bladder, not a respirator, obviously, because we can't
00:52:03
Speaker
Sure, but that's just what I meant. Yeah, we've come a long way. So Nadia, as we're rounding out our time together today, what are you thinking about for the future? You're three years into this career,
Future Aspirations and Gratitude
00:52:19
Speaker
You said one of your mentors asked you, where do you want to be? Is that something you're still thinking about? Or you're like, I'm good where I'm at right now. So I am still thinking about that. And I love health and safety. And
00:52:34
Speaker
I'm very happy with where I am and I'd be okay with continuing to build safety programs for other companies. I think it's very needed and valuable, but I do consider like now that I have what I consider my career three years, it was a boot camp. It was like I lived a lifetime in this three years being here.
00:52:55
Speaker
think like, okay, now that I have created a department from scratch by myself, I mean, definitely with the help of my colleagues and with management, but truly leading and pushing like as with my like a standalone spirit, you know, now I think what else can I do? Like, how can I widen my impact? And how can I exercise those skills in ways that can
00:53:20
Speaker
create more value and so i think about like i have written policies and procedures and training programs and so what can i do with that where it's not just benefiting one company at a time but possibly policy research policy writing
00:53:36
Speaker
program development on a grander scale. It's inspiring to me especially I love how we talk about history of health and safety because then we think about where we are now and what does the future look like because we're creating it now and all of the it goes back to my admiration for science and innovation and research because
00:53:57
Speaker
I think that is such a compassionate thing to do like for your future. It's like I'm not just practicing for the here and now like to keep my everyday employees safe, but I'm practicing because I'm helping create something sustainable for like the next generation or how can they learn from the mistakes we're making now just like how now you know we're benefiting from
00:54:17
Speaker
all of the things that, you know, unfortunately people had to experience in the past. And so I just really consider, I think as long as I continue to ask myself, like, how can I create value? How can I, you know, be truthful and transparent and encouraging in a workplace, then
00:54:34
Speaker
I feel that no matter what trajectory I take with health and safety, whether it's policy writing or program management, that it's going to be the right step for me. So I'm not too worried about exactly what I'll do next because I'm really enjoying just everything I'm learning day to day. Beautiful. Well said and a perfect way to end our conversation today. Nadia, you are well on your way and you are certainly contributing to the greater good.
00:55:04
Speaker
Thank you so much Jill and HSI team for having me today. This has just been such an amazing journey with you and talking and exploring all facets of health and safety and I'm so excited to just keep taking all of these inspirational ideas back to my workplace.
00:55:22
Speaker
I have so much gratitude for you, Jill. Thank you so much. You're so welcome. You're so welcome, Nadia. And thank you all for spending your time listening today. And more importantly, thank you for your contribution toward the common good. Making sure your workers, including your temporary workers, make it home safe every day.
00:55:39
Speaker
If you aren't subscribed and want to hear past or future episodes, you can subscribe on iTunes, the Apple Podcast app, or any other podcast player you'd like. We'd love it if you could leave a rating and review us on iTunes. It really helps us connect the show with more and more EHS professionals like Nadia and I. Special thanks to Naeem Jarisey and Amy Nourstein, our podcast producers. And until next time, thanks for listening.