Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Holiday Special Episode: Interview with Gabrielle Martin – "Hold My Hand, Mama"
29 Plays8 days ago
This week Tiffany and Tyler sit down with the author of Hold My Hand, Mama, A touching story that walks readers through the circle of life from a daughter's first steps to her mother's last and beyond. Gabrielle was the recipient of the Mom’s Choice Awards® Gold and shares her story with Goodpain and what brought her to write Hold My Hand, Mama.
Author's Links:
Recommended
Transcript
00:00:01
Speaker
I'm Jeremy. And I'm Tyler. Welcome to Good Pain, where we talk about life's true intensities without pretending they're easy to solve. What if the things we're told to fix, optimize, or get over are actually where the real wisdom lives?
00:00:14
Speaker
Each week we gather for the kind of honest conversations you desire to be a part of more often about the relentless demands, the unexpected grief, the quiet victories, and everything in between. Because maybe, just maybe, the answer isn't to eliminate the hard stuff, it's to find the good in it. Welcome to the conversation.
00:00:43
Speaker
We're taking a break from our season two, right? When we got into the first episode, we hit the holidays. And rather than continue this week, we are bringing a special holiday episode of Good Pain. And we're sitting down and talking with the author of the book, Hold My Hand, Mama.
00:01:03
Speaker
Her name is Gabriel Martin. Gabriel shares with us her story, her origin, the things that brought her to where she is today and what eventually led her to write the book Hold My Hand Mama.
00:01:16
Speaker
It's a beautiful book. It's something that can be picked up. and read with your daughters. And we recommend looking at the book and we will include in the show notes, the links where you can order the book, where you can look and read the reviews and and find out what it is all about. But in these next 45 minutes, we get to hear directly from the author herself.
00:01:39
Speaker
It is me and Tiffany sitting down with Gabriel and sharing her story with you. we hope you enjoy it.
00:01:50
Speaker
I come from a very large, very loud Catholic family. I have four siblings, just a ah massive support system. Grew up never wanting, surrounded by constant family and and wonderful.
00:02:03
Speaker
Just so blessed to have ah so rooted in our faith. That's a ah driving force for me and us. And just having that confidence of faith and family as I went through life and figured life out, still figuring it out.
00:02:16
Speaker
You can't sum up your life in in a few words, but I would say I've been given amazing opportunities to spread my wings and push myself. I think that this particular book is a piece of that, but I think that we are products of what we come from and our environments. And I've been always encouraged. I can you know achieve whatever I set my mind and heart to achieve. And that carried me through this process and everything else in life.
00:02:41
Speaker
Oftentimes when we ask people that come from a large family, we get two versions. of One is through the lens of pain and isolation, even in a and large family. But based on what we've discussed, you have ah a different experience with being a part of that larger family. what's What's your relationship to the emotions or the feelings of growing up in ah in a large family?
00:03:07
Speaker
It's tough because it's all I know, right? And even and and in my adulthood now, when I talk to, you know, I've got several close friends who are only child or have maybe a sibling.
00:03:17
Speaker
And as we navigate life together and social situations, I find that all of that upbringing has conditioned us to how we interact and act today. And I say this as there's an example, one of my friends, Mindy, and I went out and um she was saying how,
00:03:33
Speaker
When she needs her time, she does best when she is completely isolated and alone for multiple days on end. And that terrifies me. You know, that that sounds horrible to me because there is comfort for me in chaos. i didn't really start to put all that together till the last several years when I was like, why do I almost panic when I am totally isolated and alone for multiple you know days on end or whatnot? I grew up with...
00:03:59
Speaker
Constant noise, but also in that constant support. My siblings to this day are my best friends. They say, as you get older, your circle, you know, shrinks and shrinks. And mine has definitely shrunk by way of the friend social circle. You know, you kind of fine tune that to the really, really the good ones. that you want to keep around. But it also has maintained its its girth because of my, my siblings and my and not just that my parents and my aunts and uncles. I mean, like we're all and cousins like, that's just what my, my grandparents instilled in us that family is everything and faith is everything and these are your people. God gave you these people for life and by God don't abuse that gift.
00:04:39
Speaker
When did you know that was a tradition that you wanted to continue for yourself? Honestly, having kids. I knew that growing up. I knew that I loved, and I could also tell from my friends. I could tell that friends that would come and be a part of our family holidays and our traditions and the the dances we would host and all, I mean, everything was always a, it was always a party, right? It was a revolving door at and mom and dad's house. And I know that, that we, you know, our friends saw that and and admired that. And then when I got married and had, you know, my first kiddo, Olivia, just thinking, I can't wait to pass those traditions on and to host her friends and to have her experience this beautiful chaos that we call life in a large family.
00:05:19
Speaker
But yeah, definitely exponentially appreciated once I brought my own into the world. These were things that were modeled for me from your parents from your grandparents. What are those standout stories for you that you experienced maybe particularly with your mom with your dad that you carry with you as those reminders of what it was like to be a kid with healthy relationships with your parents.
00:05:44
Speaker
Immediately, I go to family dinners. Those were non-negotiables in my house. You know, we were the total seven of us. My father is, was a physician. He had ah a wild schedule. Regardless, there was a full-on home-cooked meal on the table every night. And it just depended on when he walked through those doors, when we would stop what we were doing to sit around the table together.
00:06:05
Speaker
That was our time to connect with him just because he was often working or traveling and lecturing and his time to connect with us and and us to share you know about our day. and And then another part of that that I just give huge kudos to my parents for were family vacations.
00:06:20
Speaker
So we for as long, I mean, I don't even know how far back I can't even tell you. um the yeah The youngest member we have every summer was a vacation. Now it may change where, but it was the seven of us and it was a week, maybe 10 days.
00:06:36
Speaker
And it was a full disconnect from everything, get away and be together. Because in the chaos of large family with extended and all that, you you do tend to lose some of that one-on-one connecting with each other.
00:06:47
Speaker
And even though we went through the traditional times of being annoyed by brothers and sisters and not wanting to go or do things, I look back now and they are some of my best, most treasured memories. It has become a tradition that is non-negotiable in my home and that my girls look forward to ever since they were six months old. They have been going and that is a week that we don't sacrifice or play with. because that's our time.
00:07:10
Speaker
Those two elements, while I can't pass on the family dinners to my kids because of our schedules, I have definitely adopted the family vacation and just respect the hell out of my parents for having the know-with-all at that time that those moments were so fleeting and that we were going to carve out that important time together.
00:07:27
Speaker
We all thrive on and desperately need connection in whatever form it shows. I value the connection in the interpersonal face-to-face experiential because it was modeled for me. I also see in this day and age, the other thousands of forms of connection that exist because of cell phones and the internet. Yes, those are forms of connection, but I think they're just, they're different levels. I don't want to give weight to one or the other, but I just, I push and push on my girls that while you can still have a conversation with me from the other room via cell phone,
00:08:01
Speaker
Hey mom, can you bring me my water? it is monumentally more important for you to walk your cute booty in here, look at my face and ask me for what you want and to communicate in that way. um And, and that connection, we are losing so much this day and age and it is, it is crushing honestly to watch it. And so we have a huge responsibility as parents to,
00:08:23
Speaker
show that to illustrate that to our kiddos, that there are different ways to connect, but nothing compares to or beats the connection of the heart and the soul looking in someone's eyes and and feeling the feels.
00:08:35
Speaker
I'd like to introduce what you've written because that was one of those mechanisms for connection. Walk me through how this book memorializes what you were just discussing.
00:08:47
Speaker
So the book is called Hold My Hand Mama. About five years ago, so I have two girls, Olivia, who's now 15, and Colette, who's 10. When Coco was five, she was snuggling with me, which she often did in the evenings and sometimes still does.
00:09:00
Speaker
And she laid her hand on my chest and said, hold my hand, mama. For reasons unknown, i I was very emotional. And I, in my head, thought, that's not the only time that she's going to say those words.
00:09:14
Speaker
And that Olivia will say those words. And my my brain just started racing with these moments of what will those milestones look and feel like when she says, hold my hand, mama again.
00:09:25
Speaker
You know, now it's this five-year-old little girl in bed snuggling up with me. What's the next one going to look like? And then the next one. And how long will this persist, frankly, until it doesn't? it's the circle of life. And in that moment knew there was, it was something, but again, had a full on career, had never, ever written a book.
00:09:44
Speaker
Didn't know the first thing about it. I'm so fortunate that I have a lot of brilliant entrepreneurs in my family. And after I had put all these thoughts on paper, I still have the word document to this day where I just kind of put the different milestones down and then started to rhyme with them. Everything starting with hold my hand mama And then, you know, going into that situation, shared it with my family and several of them said, you have to pursue this. Whatever that looks like, you've got to pursue it and you've got to share this.
00:10:13
Speaker
So two things jump out at me, one of which is this phrase, hold my hand, mama, and the acknowledgement that you just said about being very aware you're not going to be able to hold on to these moments into perpetuity, that they are here for a moment, and then life continues to march on.
00:10:40
Speaker
What is that relationship as a mom coming to that acknowledgement of the cycle of what I cherish today will pass on and new things will come, but I still carry the memory and the grief that things have changed?
00:11:00
Speaker
It is so beautiful that we can go back and and recall the feelings and the memories of what was. And it's also, as a mom, so very exciting to look forward to the next chapter and what that's going to look and feel like. And even, you know, there's there's scenes in the book that go from the...
00:11:22
Speaker
letting them go to college to first, you know, they're, they're walking down the aisle and first babies. And while I was able to write those from my personal perspective with my mom, of course, I'm now reading that book and thinking, oh my gosh, we're like a blink away from those moments with me and my kids.
00:11:38
Speaker
And they're, yeah, they're just 10 and 15, but it is, as you know, goes way too damn fast. And, um, i was, uh, one of the authors for a literature festival in, um, at the Laura Ingalls Wilder home actually last week and got to share the book essentially with 630 students.
00:11:56
Speaker
And I had to do a bunch of different readings of it. And it had been a while since I had opened it and read it front to back. And as I was doing it, I found myself thinking of like being on that page with the mom and daughter before she walks down the aisle.
00:12:10
Speaker
And whereas before I just thought of that moment with me and my mom now thinking of it totally differently. Who is it going to be that I'm handing Olivia off to and and Coco? And it's just, a you know, it is... um It's terrifying, but it's also it's also exhilarating. And um yeah, I just, I don't know.
00:12:32
Speaker
Bittersweet. You use the word terrifying. And I think oftentimes we associate terror, disappointment, and grief all with a negative connotation. But sometimes that terror is calling forth some of the deep yearnings and longings. What does that terror or imagining what's on the horizon, what does that call forth for you and your relationship with your daughters? Sure.
00:13:04
Speaker
Um, I think you're right. I think fear can take two different faces in that. And um while I say i am terrified of what the future holds, it's also, i think a piece of it is it's the fear of the unknown. It's the fear of letting them go off and fly and having not that it's a lack of control, but having this maternal and paternal release of I've done my job and now you're experiencing life and it's you. And there's so much beauty in that fear too, though. Like I used to work in the mental health field. And one of the things that stuck with me was one of the gals that that we worked with said, when you're scared, feel through it.
00:13:45
Speaker
Feeling through the fear, feeling through anger, feel like feel it all and don't suppress it. And there are lessons in in all of those emotions. And um And yeah, fear is, God, fear is a big part of growing up.
00:14:00
Speaker
Your kids right now, 15 10, one in a stage, I could imagine the 15 year old, you talking to them about that nature of fear and watching them evolve their relationship with fear and anxiety. What's that been like? And how does that reflect for you on on your own fears and anxieties? Well, I mean, this is a recent thing with the 15 year old. She's in high school now. She's a sophomore and um she's experiencing that friendships may not always be what they've always been. And that is a, that is a tough one. You know, she's had, she's had this bestie years, her, her ride or die. And a new gal has moved into the area and she's
00:14:44
Speaker
what she thinks is taking her bestie away. And she is just, she is living it, man. She is trying to figure this out and she is struggling. And on one hand, it's been exciting because I've been there, right? We've all been in some situation like that with friends. And so being able to sit down and be like, the good news is, like what the bad news is, this hurts right now. But the good news is,
00:15:05
Speaker
this is going to happen so many times in your life, right? We're going to cycle through friendships and relationships and boys and girls and all the things, and you're still okay, right? Like you're, and I, and I reminder, I say your core is always going to be here and your core is your family. All right.
00:15:20
Speaker
That's who you're always going to come back to, but friendships are fleeting. It doesn't mean that you are loved or seen less when you have a dear friend who was wanting to explore another friendship or relationship. um And again, it just makes you kind of go back ah in yourself and, and remember and bring up what those moments were for, for you, for me, for you going through those connection struggles. And then the 10 year old, you know, she's a hot mess, but I, I love, I love this phase too, as she's truly trying to figure out where she's comfortable in her skin.
00:15:56
Speaker
It's a totally different situation than it was with Liv, which blows my mind how we can raise our children the same and they are polar opposites. um And so it's just, yeah, every every moment with each of them is so drastically different, but I love it.
00:16:10
Speaker
What's the experience like of one thing working with one child and it not working with the next? It's like we're always beginners again, right? Like like we did it once, it worked, let's try it again.
00:16:24
Speaker
This is not working. In fact, it might be exacerbating the problem. What's that like for you? Frustrating as hell. um So my my youngest, Coco, is just a spitfire, right? She's a sass pot. ah She's all attitude. And my oldest, Olivia, is a gentle soul ah and quirky. And um so truly just the way they behave and respond to each other and me and the world is so different. And I'm blessed that I am um i am since divorced since I wrote the book, but their father and I have a beautiful relationship. We co-parent.
00:17:03
Speaker
um with them as the number one goal, their health and wellbeing. And so we're able to share these stories and to be like, and to share the frustration together of what did we do? Like, what did, like, how does it, how is it not working with cocoa?
00:17:17
Speaker
how How it, you know, how it worked with live with respect to, you know, homework or whatever the subject may be. Our patience has been tested to its limits with the youngest. Yeah.
00:17:28
Speaker
and continues to. We have to remind ourselves to pause and to give ourselves grace that they are, you know, unique gifts from God and they've got their own little fingerprints of life that, that they're going to show off to the world. And I, i can't say that I've mastered it yet. I don't know if I ever will with the, with the youngest here, it's a constant test of picking a different way in a different, a different route to communicating.
00:17:57
Speaker
And, um, you know, she, she needs a lot of one-on-one and she needs a lot of that, that really precious intimate time. Whereas the other one is just totally fine being surrounded by the chaos and yeah, just navigating that, figuring it out by observation, trial and error, mostly error.
00:18:16
Speaker
I'm hearing that as they grow up, they have different ways of you holding their hands through things. And that i know with my own children, I've been very surprised by a lot of their strengths, ways they show up, things that I don't understand even about the way they see the world. and How does that translate for you? how does that feel holding their hands in situations that are surprising to you? Yeah.
00:18:43
Speaker
So one came to mind, Tiffany, while you were sharing, while you were saying that, um, I was thinking about, uh, when I would drop each kid off for a summer school or summer camp, whatever it was, since I have a career, I could never stay home for the summers. Right. So I had to find care and, and that was always something different than the comfortable school environment they had. So they were always kind of starting over in the summers with new friends and new teachers and all this, which can be just heart gripping as a mom.
00:19:11
Speaker
And I'll never forget dropping Livy. my now my oldest off for the first time at this summer camp. and she had, i dropped her. She was crying. ah And i left and she had escaped the teacher, ran to the glass doors and was pounding on them as she watched me walk away, pounding and screaming and crying, mommy don't leave.
00:19:35
Speaker
And i just, I sat in that parking lot for, i don't know how long and cried my eyes out, you know, fast forward five years to Coco. And dropping cocoa at camp wouldn't even let me walk her down to the class, said, see you later. It was like, I wasn't even there, didn't even need to be there. And that crushed me in a whole different way. And so it is just, you're absolutely right. We we have to relearn and learn how to hold their hands and support them.
00:20:03
Speaker
um We have to start over with each one of them. And it's tough. It's tough. It is always changing, never a period of arrival.
00:20:17
Speaker
And the moment we start to feel that we've arrived, oh, get ready, that will be disillusioned very quickly. As you are looking on the horizons and of the things that are ahead of you, how do you cultivate for yourself that sense of identity that is still a mom, but a mom with her own solitude?
00:20:47
Speaker
That's a really tough one. um You know... When you talk about what's on the horizon and what's next, ah like where are we going to hit the reset button again? i immediately go to college for my 15 year old.
00:21:05
Speaker
You know, we we just had a college fair. She's got two years and she's out. She gone. And um and then I think fast forward five more years, which will be gone in a blink, as you well know.
00:21:18
Speaker
and what does that look like? here, when you say solitude, that's where my fear sets in, right? Like you hear, Oh, you're once a mother, always a mother, you're always going to be in their lives. and And I'm just like, when they are physically not, you know, vying for time and attention or begging me to come to this concert or this game and they are gone and the house is truly quiet.
00:21:44
Speaker
Um, what does that do for us as parents and our identity? And, um, and, and it's just, it truly does just make my stomach flip thinking about it. And, um, also great excitement for what, you know, for what that means for my children and what chapters they're going to be, writing for themselves, but also just wanting to remind them and myself that,
00:22:15
Speaker
while they physically may not be here as much, um, that we still have, and we'll always have that responsibility as their, you know, guides in life to be there through them. However, that looks in the next chapter and phase college, marriage, children, beyond careers, all the things. And while we're still, you know, and, and, and I think another reminder in that too, is never neglecting ourselves in that.
00:22:40
Speaker
I've seen so many mom friends that just have given up on their own hope and dreams for the future and all this because life's just too crazy, right? And the kids are too busy and I'll, maybe I'll get to it. Maybe I never will.
00:22:52
Speaker
And i think back to the book a bit for me, I was like, I don't want to have something to be like, well, I should have pursued that. But I was, I was definitely busy at that phase in life, but also thought, well, now's the time.
00:23:06
Speaker
Like, You know, tomorrow isn't promised to any of us. And um another thing that that I love about this piece is it's such a beautiful legacy that that I get to leave for the girls. I hired an illustrator out of New Zealand because I just loved her work. And I knew that's the look I wanted for the book, Claudia Gadotti. And I sent her photos of these milestones with me and the kids.
00:23:30
Speaker
And said, can you do your best? I don't want it to look exact, but do your best to make it reflect these moments and them. And so my girls love that they can open up a page and be like, ah that's when I had to go get that shot in my mouth because I put a toy in my mouth at Itty Bitty City.
00:23:49
Speaker
And it got like, they're like, seriously, you look at the doctor page. And if I showed you guys that picture of Coco sitting in the doctor's office, unable to speak, swallow. I mean, it was horrible. Whatever she had contracted.
00:24:01
Speaker
She mimicked it beautifully in this illustration, but. It is, I'm just so blessed and grateful that my kiddos get to relive that through this book.
00:24:12
Speaker
I also have found going back to the not losing who we are as individuals through motherhood, parenthood, it's become somewhat of an inspiration for moms that have said, gosh, i've I've always wanted to write a book or I've always wanted to do this, but I just, how did you find the time? And it's like, you carve it out. You know, if it's important enough to you, to you you have to make it.
00:24:32
Speaker
And um yeah, there were sacrifices. It was going, you know, from work to kids putting to bed and then to, you know, hammering out, you know, the next part of the book or finding, figuring out ISBN numbers or whatever it was. um But I have zero regrets and I would encourage anyone out there, whether it's writing a book or writing a musical, ah just don't ever, ever ah sell yourself short because we have one shot.
00:25:00
Speaker
Striking that balance is really challenging, even when we consider but where we started at this portion of of the conversation was understanding that time keeps marching on We want to, especially those of us who start getting to getting closer to that period where we're transitioning from in the home, going to the games, having those installed mechanisms for being in a relationship, that oftentimes some of the things you talked about of finding time for yourself, time for yourself to write a book, is up against this, sometimes this incessant pressure wring as much as we possibly can out of the time that we do have.
00:25:49
Speaker
And we know that, but we're also tired and we're also need some respite. And we also need to check some things off of the list. and how does that contribute to sometimes what feels like a neurosis of I'm supposed to get as much as out of the time as I can, I'll Also, I need to be productive and check things off of the list. And that's a tough balance for for us as parents, for us as mothers.
00:26:23
Speaker
two reminders come, come out of that for me. One, you know, people are the, the common saying is one step at a time, one day at a time. And, um, back when I was, when I had had Olivia, so my first kiddo, someone had said one breath at a time, like forget tomorrow, like forget three years, three eight hours from now, let's get through the next five minutes. Like,
00:26:47
Speaker
If you can not overwhelm yourself with the anxiety of thinking about what you cannot control in tomorrow and next week and next month, and just truly like right now I'm going to be present. And if I can just get through this breath,
00:27:02
Speaker
And then to the next, um that was always super, super helpful for me. And then um to your other point, we do get so tired and it truly, and and not just, you know, physical exhaustion, but, but mental and emotional. And um sure, there were absolutely days where I was like, I'm just, there Honestly, there were weeks that I would just put it away and be like, it's too stressful to even think about. I'm never going to finish this thing. I've got to do X, y and Z for my job and the kids right now. And I love the adage, it is okay to rest. Just do not ever quit.
00:27:34
Speaker
You've got to allow yourself to rest, whatever that looks like. If that is giving yourself a night to sit in a bubble bath with candles and a glass of wine, if it's getting out for a couple, you know, for a weekend with the girls, whatever it is, you've got to be able to to invest in yourself and your self-care be able to pour into anybody else, let alone, you know, your own goals and aspirations.
00:27:58
Speaker
the piece of advice that was given to you going back to your parents, do you recall, especially with a family of that size, whether they were able to carve out that? Is that something you noticed, whether they could or they could not? So, um, my parents have a beautiful marriage and relationship. Like they are sickeningly still in love. And I say that with, with endearment, um, they are just head over heels for each other. They still flirt. I mean, they are it's just, it's a, they are an amazing example of everything that I have wanted and want, um, in, uh, in a marriage. And,
00:28:38
Speaker
For them, you know, they were each other's respite in the chaos. And there was probably, i would say, if not every week, every other week, there was date night.
00:28:49
Speaker
And that was, we just knew, like we had a steady sitter and um they would get all gussied up. They love to get dressed up and, and they carve out that time with and for each other.
00:29:02
Speaker
And I truly do believe that, I mean, obviously they've, they had a strong foundation from the start and they have a a very faith rooted relationship, but I, I truly believe that um those date nights,
00:29:16
Speaker
And keeping each other as priority amidst the beautiful chaos that was all of us i only strengthened what they have today. I think that from a relational standpoint, and then I go back to the vacations also, that that them showing us and, you know, through, you know, we don't, there is no choice. You will be coming on vacation, even if you miss this theater practice or this, you know, basketball camp, family vacation is, it is happening. um And, and those were, those were our moments too, to not only connect with each other, but to recharge ourselves.
00:29:51
Speaker
Yes. Dad was ah a very hardworking physician, but mom also raising five kids and never missing a thing. Any of us did needed that for herself. They definitely instilled in us um the necessity for those breaks and resets.
00:30:06
Speaker
In addition to the connection we talked about earlier, now what i just heard you say, you observed your parents developing a community unto themselves between the two of them.
00:30:18
Speaker
And that's something that with a lot of the people and parents we've spoken to, is... sense of community support of holding space so that you can cultivate your own solitude or connection with others from a respite perspective is so important.
00:30:37
Speaker
How have you found that within your broader community, your friends, and those people that come ah around you to lift you up or those periods of time when it's been clearly absent?
00:30:53
Speaker
I think our bodies just kind of intuitively know when we are needing and craving that level of connection. um i find that if it's been a while since I've been out with certain friends or ah had a long conversation or, you know, Zoom call with my sister or um on a date with my now boyfriend, um I can definitely sense that irritability and frustration and lack of patience. And, and that's our, I think our body's telling us that, um, we need another, a different sense of connection in that moment.
00:31:26
Speaker
Um, getting back to ourselves and getting back to, um, just kind of being able to pause and breathe and not always having to be on the go. I find that with my, my other mom friends and my sisters and two two of my sisters are physicians as well. And we're very close with their resident friendships or whatever, and have maintained that over the years. And so um my sister, Holly,
00:31:50
Speaker
every year has the trip with her four or five resident girlfriends and they do it. They, there's no excuses. Four or five of them go somewhere remote for three or four days and just exist. They don't even do anything extravagant. It's not getting dolled up. It's not going out. It's not posting all over socials. It's truly just them.
00:32:10
Speaker
Um, I think the last one was just them and some, um, or one of them I got to attend was a house in Branson, just completely remote. brought in a chef one night just because they didn't want to cook and literally sat around in PJs and just hashed out the memories, took chances to talk about their own current, you know, just laughter and tears. And my sister-in-law, she does the same with her girlfriends in Arkansas. And that can look so different for all of us, right? Like, is that, is that a set a pair of pair or a set of girlfriends? Is that best friend from college? um Is it flying to go see an aunt or uncle or some cousins that you haven't? We just, it's,
00:32:45
Speaker
So important to carve that out. And it's also one thing that we will never regret. I look at some of the trips that I've taken where I forced myself and it was like so inconvenient, right? To put life away and to miss things with the kids to do this. But then afterwards being like, I will never have that moment again. And thank Jesus that I did it. And it's one of the most beautiful memories of my life.
00:33:06
Speaker
But it's tough. it's It's tough in the day to day to make it happen. you know, at times it can be inconvenient. But when I think of motherhood and what inherently comes with it, being what feels like the beck and call of kids, it doesn't matter whether it's convenient for you, your relationship as a mother is one where you have to get past the resistance to inconvenience fairly quickly.
00:33:36
Speaker
That has given you a relationship that said, I have to make time for writing a book. I have to make time for hanging out with friends.
00:33:47
Speaker
What is it within those of us that are making decisions based on whether it's convenient or not? What are we missing out on when we fail to surrender to inconvenience?
00:34:02
Speaker
I think we have to remind ourselves in those moments that if we are not our best, we cannot give our best and our kiddos deserve our best.
00:34:14
Speaker
Um, and when we are worn down and beaten down with life, reaching that break, um, we're not serving them to the best of our abilities as moms and dads. And so, um, while in those moments, we don't think like that. I know personally, i know immediately when I start to snap or, um,
00:34:33
Speaker
to, to lash out or, uh, cry uncontrollably, whatever it may be that, uh, that I, I got to step away and, and do whatever it takes to, to fill my cup back up and show back up for the kids. Cause they, I mean, they, they're learning how to navigate life through us right now.
00:34:53
Speaker
And we have this small window to show them how I will never claim ever, ever, ever claim to be a perfect mom, but I think it's in the imperfections that they experience that they're learning more of life.
00:35:08
Speaker
I want to be on my game for all of that. You just brought up the imperfections and the mistakes that we make as parents. And i think all of us have spent our time shaming or guilting ourselves. What are the things that you remind yourself or the stories that remind you that mistakes, imperfections are actually part of the deal? That perfection is a myth. Mm.
00:35:37
Speaker
Gosh. Yeah. You know, the divorce in the beginning of it, I thought I was absolutely failing them. And um what example have I set? they have They have seen their grandparents and their aunts and uncles in these you know beautiful marriages. And um not many of their friends at the time had parents who were divorced. And Again, I have a wonderful, I'm so blessed with my relationship with their father. um We just realized um that we and they were so much better off and healthier as co-parents and just navigating life separately than in than under the umbrella of the marriage. And
00:36:17
Speaker
taking that leap at the time, terrifying, watching it just crush them and confuse them while I was confused also. um so this was, you know, three years ago and, uh, and now fast forward, I'm in a, uh, a healthy and happy, um, relationship and um,
00:36:37
Speaker
see it. They experience what they never saw in the home. Now, last year, when Olivia, oh, she was 14. I was having just one of my moments with, with all of it. Cause you, you know, it's, it doesn't just, oh, we're divorced. You know, I'm good. Everything's fine. You, you live, you live it in some capacity every day. And And Olivia said, um i was i was having a meltdown about something and thinking and I failed her in some way again with ah with the divorce. And she said, Mom, I know why you did what you did.
00:37:06
Speaker
And you did the right thing. That emotional maturity for her to say that and to recognize that, you know, she she got a very different mom when i was when I was not as happy in the house um versus versus what she gets now.
00:37:21
Speaker
Divorce can be looked at in so many different lenses, but i what I thought was this massive stain on me ah has, has, and is still becoming a, a beautiful life lesson for my, my kiddos that we don't just settle in life and in ourselves. And we need to be constantly striving for that fulfillment and that peace and happiness. And that um there is no perfect.
00:37:48
Speaker
we're perfectly imperfect as we are and um every story is going to look different and that's okay yeah but that's i mean when you when when you mention that um that experience is what what comes to mind You read through your book, Hold My Hand, Mama, and there's this beautiful pivot from our kids asking to hold our hand so that we can assure them, give them security so that they can take that next step.
00:38:19
Speaker
And what I heard you just say is this picture of her reaching out and saying, hold my hand, because that's what she can do for you. That's exactly what that moment was.
00:38:32
Speaker
Her taking almost that maternal role to say, i see you and I know you did this not only for you, but for us, and it's going to be okay. And what an interesting other page or addendum to the book that would be. The flip around from that goes is the guide my hand mama page, which is guide my hand mama from you. I have learned to hold her hand mama. And now it's my turn.
00:38:56
Speaker
But that's her holding the hand of her new baby. But what ah what an interesting what an interesting reversal to to say she holding mine through the next chapter and whatever of mine for her.
00:39:08
Speaker
Some parents who experience that and it's a mix of emotions where some of that is I'm the parent here. yeah You shouldn't be reassuring me, but I find that permission of giving ourselves...
00:39:26
Speaker
The gift of not even watching our children mature and try on what it means to provide comfort, what it means to try on maturity is itself humbling in that role of a parent because we're now participant in their maturity in a new, different way. It's hard to surrender to that.
00:39:48
Speaker
Yeah, it is full circle. And, um, We don't come with guidebooks when they come out of us, right? We, uh, we're learning every day how to do this thing called mom, called dad, called human.
00:40:02
Speaker
Something else that that just reminded me when you said, you know, them turning around and giving the comfort at this festival, uh, at this literature festival last week, I took both of my girls and um So they could not only experience it from an educational standpoint, you know, setting up the booth, interacting with the students, all the things, but also I wanted them to continue to see the impact the book still has and that the concept of what we've released into the world has, right?
00:40:29
Speaker
We had a group of students come up and they all grabbed a copy and started reading it together. And this hadn't happened all day. It was really unique. And there was this young Hispanic boy, probably 10, 11.
00:40:42
Speaker
ten eleven He's reading it surrounded by his peers. And he gets to the page with the grandmother And he absolutely loses it.
00:40:53
Speaker
He is trying to contain himself because he's got his friends around, boys and girls. And he is, you know, at first just kind of wiping the tear, just nonchalantly, and then cannot stop the tears. Finishes the book and has the most heartwarming experience.
00:41:07
Speaker
And my my oldest, Olivia, sees this and she goes right up to him and she just says, can I give you a hug? And she's standing there holding this young boy who has just read through her mom's book.
00:41:21
Speaker
And it was just, it was just so surreal. This moment of her giving him comfort because of the words and experiences. And the I just, it was so incredibly special. Um, I, uh, I have a picture of her hugging him in that moment.
00:41:38
Speaker
And he actually ended up coming back and asked if he could read it again. And you could just see the chitter chatter within the students, just like, well, what's, you know, what's getting him so emotional? And then they'd, they'd fast forward in the book, you know, to the, to the end. And, um, it was just, I don't know. It was just a ah beautiful, beautiful, precious moment to watch Livy innocently and without prompt go comfort this young boy because of whatever, um ah whatever memory was being stirred up in him.
00:42:06
Speaker
It just spoke to her heart. And that just completely wrecked mine. Yeah. There's such a parallel for me between the nature of the book that you wrote and the ways as an author you imagine how it's going to have impact, what aims are and the objectives that you can see Then to be surprised with the ways it's hitting right between the eyes, right in the heart, and continuing to be surprised as you put your book into the wild that it comes back to surprise you. and I don't know if there's a better picture of what it's like to parents and what we imagine being a parent's going to be like, and yet constantly surprised by the way these autonomous individuals with agency continue to develop in
00:42:58
Speaker
and become people we could never have imagined. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, yeah. i And that's the thing is you try to think, I can just see what she's going to be like. I can just see what kind of mother she will be or what kind of friend she's going to, you know, and, uh, and yeah, we, that I am constantly, and pleasantly surprised and, um, so excited to experience whatever it is that's going to come next.
00:43:27
Speaker
What is the one question we haven't asked that we need to ask of you because there's something in you that needs to come out? Gosh.
00:43:40
Speaker
Well, I will say, and this is more, i don't know, this is, it's not a a super deep one, but one that I often get asked when I have moments to share the book with groups, larger groups, um is what about those that have sons? And is my plan to write one with a mother's son What about daddy daughter? Yes, I absolutely want to.
00:44:04
Speaker
Had already started actually putting pen to paper for a daddy daughter. Life has just not. um I've not carved it out with how crazy life is.
00:44:15
Speaker
And it will never not be crazy. And I get that. I know that. um This piece is still not out in the wild, like you said, like I want it to be. And I struggle with that. Like I released it on Amazon and right before COVID, it's done wonderful, but still there is just, ah there's a whole world out there that um it's very, very tough as a a self-published author to get your books on shelves and in hands.
00:44:43
Speaker
And so I more, when I think about, yeah, someday I do want to dive in and, and, and write more about what it's like from the father daughter perspective, or, you know, reach the moms that have boys. Um, I still want to reach all the moms that have the daughters and the grandmothers and the aunts and how I, you know, how do I do that? And that's just a constant. And another, you know, another thought I had also the last several years was, was to write a multicultural version. I did ah a podcast a few weeks ago with a um beautiful African-American woman, just beautiful twin boys. It was a beautiful experience. And I thought, you know, I had sent her a book and I thought, ah, I'd really love for her to be able to share that with her girls and then be able to relate a little bit better with what's in the pages and what they see. So I would love to, I would love to do all those things. Um,
00:45:32
Speaker
I want to say that I will. i just don't know the when. there's There's so much of putting the book truly on the back burner where I would go months and months and months without even picking it up.
00:45:45
Speaker
I did not pursue this thing to make a dime. I care about, I care that it's on bedside tables and that it's it's causing beautiful connections with parents and children, letting moms and grandmothers and women alike ah relive and remember their own memories and moments. That is all I care about in this.
00:46:07
Speaker
And so I just, you know, i just set it aside for months and months and months on end and do nothing. And then what I call divine nudges will happen out of nowhere. And this happened about six months ago. I went to church and um one of the greeters, one of the the female greeters who's been doing it for years, probably in her fifties, she's opening the doors to the church for me. And she says, can I just tell it? Can I just tell you something?
00:46:31
Speaker
Your book has touched my life in so many ways that you will never understand. And I was just totally taken aback. Didn't even know she knew I wrote a book because it's not, so I mean, I'm just, it's just not something that, you know, you wear on your chest. And I was like, I would love to hear about this experience. And she said, she said, I'm in that phase where me and my girlfriends are losing our mothers.
00:46:53
Speaker
And she said that I sit with my girlfriends when this is happening and bring your book to them and to their mothers as they're going through hospice or going through X, Y, and Z. And I just, ah it hit, it like punched me in the heart. I was just like, what?
00:47:12
Speaker
Holy cow, it's still out there doing something. And I had one last year where a gal came up and she had purchased the book when it launched in 2020 and um that it is tattered and torn and has stains and sticky fingers, but it sits by the bedside of her and her daughter. And it is the nightly read.
00:47:31
Speaker
of course... Gave her a hard cover. And I was like, well, let's replace that one. And um but just that, that, that, yeah, that we we never know what kind of impact we have.
00:47:43
Speaker
I have massive gratitude for those that have stepped out to share that because we we don't know unless you you share it. What you hope for your daughters, for your kids, whatever legacy that you leave with them is, is that they know that they were well-loved.
00:48:01
Speaker
that example to then them reciprocate and let other people feel that love and feel that compassion and and just to continue that because the world needs more of it now more than ever.
00:48:18
Speaker
Thank you for sitting with us in this conversation, for bringing your own story, your own questions, and your own hard-won wisdom to what we're building together. If you want to keep this going, subscribe to Good Pain on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, where you can also leave us a review that helps others find their way to these conversations.
00:48:37
Speaker
And for weekly doses of conversations that go beyond quick fixes or surface level advice, subscribe to our Kindling newsletter at goodpainco.com. Good Pain is recorded in Colorado on Arapaho, Ute, and Cheyenne ancestral lands.
00:48:54
Speaker
And let's remember, we are not alone in this. Our struggle is not our shame. Whatever we are carrying today, we don't have to carry it alone. We will see you next time.