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Starship Troopers Live Action Sequels
270 Plays3 years ago
Continuing their journey for Citizenship, Fraser (Satsunami) and Adam continue to punish themselves by watching the infamous sequels Starship Troopers 2 and 3. Are they as bad as the legends say? Is Phil Tippett's film a greater threat than the Arachnids themselves? Let's find out on this week of Chatsunami!
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Transcript
Introduction and Intentions
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami.
00:00:17
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Chatsunami. I'm Satsunami and joining me today to bring the fight once again to the arachnid threat is my very good friend Adam. Adam, welcome back to Chatsunami. Hello, hello and you know what I think, Satsunami? I think it's a good day to die. Oh, I see what you did there. I want to review Starship Troopers 2 and 3.
Critique of Sequels
00:00:41
Speaker
Can I take the former option please?
00:00:43
Speaker
Oh god. You really didn't enjoy this film, did you? Or both of them? I've seen worse in fairness. I've seen better, but I've seen worse. I mean, you've seen Bardemic. That's true, that's true. In fairness, these films are, to borrow your phrase, they seem like the Citizen Kane's of sequels. I just wanted to be very hyperbolic, because Starship Troopers is all about grand gestures in your face.
00:01:07
Speaker
I was just going to say, let's not be too dramatic here calling it the Citizen Kane of sequels, but I do see where you're coming from. It's not the worst I think we've ever seen, but it is a thing. It is a very interesting product. I was going to say a product of its time, but I don't even think films are the time we're producing things like this. I don't think so.
00:01:29
Speaker
Starship Troopers 2, when did that come out? Was it like, it was the early 2000s. 2004 I believe. Jesus, that late. I know, it's like 7 years ago. Oh my god. And yes, Starship Troopers 3 I believe came out in 2008.
Plot Summaries
00:01:44
Speaker
Yep.
00:01:44
Speaker
I was gonna say, oh, you know, oh it really shows it came out in 2008 but no, it really doesn't. It predates the art form known as animation. It's like, you know one of those old documentaries that you see where they go back and it's like, this is the very first form of animation. It was carved into stone, you know? I'm not saying it's that bad but it's not too far off. It's like Starship Troopers Willy or something. Oh god. What, they're acting it on a steamboat. I would pay to see that film.
00:02:14
Speaker
Gonna kill the Federation! Definitely pay for that. Okay, I'm ending the episode there always so we can make our dreams come true. Because that's probably a better... You're right, no. I'm only kidding. As you can tell, today we are going to be talking about Starship Troopers 2 and 3.
Viewing Experience Memories
00:02:30
Speaker
And it is my devious job to put the burden of the summary onto you, Adam. So, yeah, what? Why every time?
00:02:41
Speaker
Yeah, I don't pay you enough for this. Or at all, actually. Yeah, what is Starship Troopers 2 and 3 about in the most succinct and pain-free summary ever? Okay, so Starship Troopers 2 takes place on a planet infested with the Arachnids and it revolves around a small group of mobile infantry soldiers who escape
00:03:05
Speaker
escape a mass slaughter and take refuge in this old abandoned industrial building I don't really know what it is but they find they find another soldier there who's been accused of murder and was slated to be executed but wasn't and basically they need to hold out against the swarm of arachnids closing in on them until they get rescued but there's
Cult Following and Sequel Decisions
00:03:24
Speaker
intrigue inside things are happening in the in the surviving group and that's basically the plot of Starship Troopers 2. Starship Troopers 3
00:03:31
Speaker
It takes place 11 years after the original film and we zoom back on to Johnny Rico our main hero from the first film who is now a colonel in charge of the defense of another planet and this planet is overrun by arachnids and he is Accused of treason and also slated to be there's a theme here slated to be executed but It's execution for a special task at the same time the leader of the Federation Sky Marshal a note is a
00:04:00
Speaker
having a sort of religious conversion, a religious experience, and at the same time there's a plot to dethrone him by another, by a high-ranking military general. And so with these two things, these two strands are going on at the same time and they culminate in a finale. How about that for a slice of fried summary? I love how you just said E for that one.
00:04:21
Speaker
You know, we're only in the intro here, if we're getting this out. Yeah, you didn't say, like, a grand finale, a bombastic finale, a citizen keen of finales. You just said a finale. And that was... I believe in being objective.
00:04:36
Speaker
Well, can't deny it. Chat's an Ami exclusive. We are indeed objective.
Receptions and Critiques
00:04:41
Speaker
But to kind of get context about our experience, we mentioned this in our previous episode, which if you haven't checked it out, please do, where I actually came to visit you in probably one of the weirdest ways possible. I came to visit you at your house one day, and despite all the knocking, you eventually let me into your house like some kind of, oh, is it like a vampire you have to let in your house?
00:05:04
Speaker
Yeah, vampires and Starship Troopers fans are the same. Oh, bloodsucking parasites! So yes, being the Starship Troopers fan I was, I brought... I think it was all four? I know technically there are five Starship Troopers films, but I only brought four of them because, yes, I'm not a true Starship Troopers fan. I apologise, Adam. You're a phony!
00:05:29
Speaker
I'm sorry, okay. Yeah, we ended up marathoning all the way through from Starship Troopers 1 to 4. I think by the day, the kind of Starship Troopers fatigue really hit us when, and we mentioned this in our 50th episode celebration, where we actually both got the wrong pizza.
00:05:47
Speaker
or rather sorry we both ordered pizzas and you explained it better than me but the long and the short of it was that I ordered like a barbecue chicken pizza, you ordered a vegetarian pizza and we nearly finished each other's pizza before we were like wait a minute we
00:06:03
Speaker
both got the wrong piece. And ever since then we blame that on Starship Troopers 3. So that is probably like a good indicator as to what to expect with this film.
Reflection on Original vs. Sequels
00:06:16
Speaker
How did you feel by the end of it? I'm actually quite curious, how did you feel by the end of watching all four of these films?
00:06:22
Speaker
uh like like you'd taken like you'd taken all four films held them in your hands and beat me about the head with them until i was stunned and dazed i mean that is exactly what happened but um for the sake of the law this is a joke um i can't remember that he thinks yes and a snowball that says starship troopers
00:06:46
Speaker
Ah, you see, you get it? Citizen Kane reference. See, I'm getting one step closer to watching the damn film. One day I'll watch it, but yes, until then we've got Starship Troopers 2 and 3 to go over.
00:06:58
Speaker
Which is something I never thought I would say. It was great revisiting the first one, because as we both agreed in our Starship Troopers episode, Starship Troopers is a fantastic film. Even though it wasn't well received when it came out, it's kind of amassed a cult following. Ironically enough, a bit like one of the subplots in the third film at least anyway. And when the sequels came out, they were direct to DVD, weren't they? Both were. I was going to say poor people, but let's face it, it is really not as it...
00:07:27
Speaker
They didn't do anything to justify these films being released in the cinema. Yeah, I totally agree with you. I can imagine going to see these and having the same kind of feeling as going to see something like... I was going to say Terminator Salvation, but is it you who actually doesn't mind Terminator Salvation? Oh, don't you attack that to my name! Okay! Don't get that!
00:07:55
Speaker
I was going to say because I can't remember if it was you who said that Terminator Salvation was like it obviously Terminator 2, 1 and 2 the best.
00:08:06
Speaker
I just wanted to fact check, just in case. This is like turned into an expose. I actually lied to you. You might get mailed out from people even being like, you're a scumbag. Or people being like, thank you for bringing notice to our cause. You're going to get a letter that's just like, finally, another fan. Meet us in... Yeah.
00:08:33
Speaker
meet us under the grand old oak round the corner and it's like, there isn't a grand old oak, there's just one you haven't noticed yet.
00:08:41
Speaker
the film is just a withered husk. It's a proud treat. Much like Starship Troopers, which began as a fantastic deconstruction and weathered away into just absurdity. So without any further ado, we'll just jump into this like head first. Before we jump into this, we are going to go away and say a prayer to our bug god. I can't even remember the bug god in three. Was it like Beto McCaw or something?
00:09:11
Speaker
Don't know. That was about right. That's cool.
00:09:13
Speaker
Yeah, Beatle McCaw, you know, it's a Beatle, it's a McCaw, actually it's not, it's a giant bug. But anyway, we're gonna go away and pray to whatever that is. And as we do, please feel free to listen to these messages from the Federation. Welcome to Chatsunami, a variety podcast that talks about topics from gaming and films to streaming in general interest.
00:09:43
Speaker
If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can find us an anchor, Spotify, YouTube and all good podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome and most importantly, stay hydrated.
00:09:56
Speaker
We are Beer and Chill Podcast. Podcast where we review TV shows, games, movies and whatever else takes our fancy. So what are you waiting for? If you're a cool kid like us, you're gonna listen to the Beer and Chill Podcast. You can get it anywhere from Spotify all the way to your Grandma's radio. My name is Jan. And I'm Creaky C. And we are Beer and Chill.
00:10:31
Speaker
Okay, and we're back. So shall we start off with the quite arguably the weakest film of the trilogy? Let's do it. Let's get it out of the way first. Yeah, let's start with Starship Troopers 2. So where do we even begin with this? I was going to say, well, we start with the good points of this film because that's probably going to be the shortest section. Yeah, let's do that. That should take us about 30 seconds. Yeah, the effects are good. Yeah.
00:11:01
Speaker
And the reason for that is because the director of this film is none other than Phil Tippett, which I hope I'm saying that correctly. He actually worked on... He's actually got quite an extensive filmography, doesn't he? He does. He's worked on a lot of the big blockbuster effects. Because I think he was actually credited in Jurassic Park as well. Yeah, Star Wars as well, I'm sure he's credited on. So he's got really good pedigree in that kind of effects.
00:11:28
Speaker
Now he's a very talented guy and he was responsible for the arachnids themselves, was he? Yeah, he was the lead effect supervisor I think on the first film. Absolutely talented guy and the fact they had a lot of the practical effects as well for the bugs and things, absolutely brilliant.
Spin-Off Nature of Sequels
00:11:46
Speaker
They still hold up today from the first film but we're not talking about the first film.
00:11:50
Speaker
Unfortunately, we're going back to sequel and we're gonna be ripping apart unfortunately the sequel but at the same time that's all we'll see the effects of like the bugs and things and Yeah, some of the practical effects are absolutely fantastic in this film except for the guns now in the very first film I always remember there's a particular scene where they're at boot camp and They are like shooting these laser guns and going to pew pew pew
00:12:16
Speaker
in all of this you know as laser guns should do you know and then later on in the film they go back to I think it's just you know normal guns that shoot bullets and things like that and you think okay so are they just gonna do the same in the second film no they basically attach like a flashlight to the end of their guns and I didn't realize this because it's never explained in the film it's like only in the Wikipedia page that apparently it's like high tech
00:12:44
Speaker
guns? Laser guns or something? But nothing comes out of the guns. It's like, yeah, I think it's like a die hard fanatic of the series who's like, no it's actually laser guns. It's like, no, no, no. Jeremy, please, go outside. The lockdown's over. Jeremy, we miss you, please. Come out of your room. Stop writing Starship Troopers 2 fan fiction, come on. For God's sake. I was going to say that's the most egregious thing about this film, but it really isn't, is it?
00:13:12
Speaker
It's up there, I'm not gonna lie. It's probably top three of egregiousness, but yeah, I don't think it quite takes the top spot. I wish I could say more about this film, you know, to say like, oh, although it was bad, at least it had heart or something. I can't even say it had heart, can you? It's got nothing. Like, do you know what the most egregious thing about this film is? Go for it. It doesn't feel like a Starship Troopers film.
00:13:37
Speaker
Oh, 100%. Like Starship Troopers, right? The first one worked because it was on such a big, grand scale, you know,
Budget Impact on Quality
00:13:44
Speaker
as it should be. That's kind of the whole point. It's like, it's, you know, like, it's all bravado and everything's in your face and it's big battles and things, bugs are exploding and people are getting like torn in half. And that's like the, that's what makes it. That's what makes the first one so great. It's such like fun to watch. But this one, it's a really small like castor carrying and it's set in such like a small claustrophobic environment. But
00:14:05
Speaker
that's not what it's it's almost like it's trying to be like a psychological horror film something like the thing you know where it's that kind of like oh who do it and like there's a whole thing about you can't tell who to trust and things you know this there's um these alien parasites that have infected uh some are able to infect the humans and stuff and like you know take control of their minds and everything and that's sort of that's sort of the main thing it's like who the parasites taken over and who haven't they but first of all starship troopers
00:14:29
Speaker
is not, that kind of film shouldn't, isn't suited for the Starship Troopers universe. It's not a psychological horror, it's not like a small scale thing, it should be done on a grand scale. Second, it fails the psychological horror, because something like the John Carpenter's The Thing works, because you genuinely don't know, like, who's been infected by the alien and stuff, and who is, it's all about, like, it's all this tense affair of nobody, you can't trust anybody. But we know, we know in this film, because we see, we see who the Varusites have taken over. So there's none of the kind of, like, intrigue and, like,
00:14:57
Speaker
tension that these films need to have so it fails on both accounts honestly.
Frustrations with Sequels
00:15:02
Speaker
Just going back to what you were saying of like these films being like very grand and over the top, do you know what it reminds me of? You know and this is like a kind of shared like pastime of ours back in the day but you know the Warhammer 40k universe? Yeah.
00:15:17
Speaker
where it is just nothing but grand-scale war against humanity versus all these horrible other factions. Only it's kind of condensed in Starship Troopers where it's just humanity against the bugs. The arachnids, it's toe-to-toe with these enemies that we can't make peace with. I mean, technically, it's Starship Troopers.
00:15:38
Speaker
They need something to shoot at. But at the same time with that, I don't know. I feel as if this was like a spin-off or if it was part of a TV show, then maybe it could have worked. I'm thinking more like... I don't know. This is something you definitely see more in something like Star Trek or one of these one-off kind of serialized sci-fi shows. And I liked the idea of it like, oh, it's a...
00:16:07
Speaker
there's a bug in my brain you know and you're like okay um right how are we going to deal with this but it's just so generically done it's like oh how do we know that this woman who's been taken over by the bug is evil oh yeah she um she flashes her boobs she um snogs like someone else and it starts to turn into like a oh would you even call them i don't know like riverdale for example or a 90210 show
00:16:35
Speaker
When it is, it's like, oh no, my boyfriend kissed the random lassie who was here. Oh no, what are we gonna do? And it's like, ma'am, no offence but there are literal giant bugs outside of this fence. Are you actually having a giggle right now?
00:16:52
Speaker
But this is a wash to your problems here. And I know what he was going for. This whole human connection and things. I don't know. It just doesn't mesh at all. It just clashes at every single turn. That's exactly it. As you said, this idea can work in science fiction. Something like Star Trek is perfect for doing a kind of episode like that.
00:17:15
Speaker
The Terminator franchise, as well, is a good example. You can have more grand-scale settings for Terminator films, but you can also do these more claustrophobic, small-scale things as well, because it works, but Starship Troopers doesn't work on that level. The first film was never built like that. The first film was built to be this epic, you know,
00:17:36
Speaker
Odyssey type things, but that's what it was and it's just it's it's not a universe that's ever suited for this kind of small scale things I don't know I mean I could why I know I was gonna say I don't know why I did it I know exactly why they did it if you look at the budget for this film and compare it to an original so the original had a budget of a hundred million dollars Big sci-fi epic film that all makes sense. This one was obvious as we said direct to video. So I had a budget of seven million
00:17:58
Speaker
dollars. So this, I think this really explains why they had to do this. But like, and so obviously I can understand like the practical realities, but it just, it doesn't work on like a foundational level, because it just doesn't, it doesn't feel like it just, it feels like something else, you know, they could have slapped, I don't know, like some other name, like, I don't know, troopship star Rupert, I don't know, like any of the other things. Yeah. It doesn't feel like a Starship troopers film. And that's why it's not good. That's the main crux of the matter.
00:18:26
Speaker
I mean, not in the fact that the characters are just, let's face it, like, normally I don't like, you know, just absolutely ripping into a film unless I'd been, like, horribly affected by it, which I have been, so we're gonna rip into it. But the characters are, as I said, are just so generic. You've got Buff Man, McHero, Sultry, Villainess, who else, Strong Woman, who was actually in the first film, I believe, is, like, yeah, was she not, like, the captain of the, how was it, The Road to Young?
00:18:56
Speaker
or one of the... Yeah, she's the one who the door closes on and crushes her. Yeah, and they somehow got her back and it's like, oh, okay, fair does. They're like the exact same type of character again. Yeah, she's just like the no-nonsense, like hard-ass. You've got one who's pregnant and because she's pregnant they say like, oh, because she's pregnant, you know, her psychic powers have been enhanced so she gets psychic powers and it's like, come on, come on, really. What other ones are there?
00:19:23
Speaker
There's also the guy who's nominally in charge, who you think looks like he's going to be evil, but then turns out to be good in the end. Yeah, you've got the main general who's a bit clueless. It's all like brash bravado, but doesn't really know what's going on. It's a group of people.
00:19:47
Speaker
It's like a group of people who got lost at Comic Con and they took a wrong turn together and now they're trapped in an abandoned warehouse and none of them can get out.
00:19:58
Speaker
So everything in this film you can tell what they were trying to go for but yeah just like from the gross out. As you said a psychological horror where you've got like the guy who for some reason his body degrades but he's the only one and don't get me wrong it's disgusting but it's really well done but that's the only guy that's you know that's the only guy that does it.
00:20:23
Speaker
the rest of them seem pretty fine having a bug down their throat and they've had the bug down their throat for probably the same amount of time if not longer so you kind of think why what how when which it doesn't make sense like the logistics of this film and i know i know it's it's a sci-fi film about giant killer bugs but
00:20:44
Speaker
Come on, they have some consistency in your film dammit. I feel bad for saying that because as we've established, the effects are actually really good. Well, as I said, for the most part, the bugs still look good. The brain bugs. Not the brain bugs from the first film, but like, I can't remember what you call them. I don't think the film ever says, but as you know, the bugs that actually go down the people's throats. Yeah, they look good. Yeah, they look really good, but everything else is just kinda like...
00:21:12
Speaker
as I said the guns which is just it honestly feels like you're watching like cam footage or I don't know like an airsoft game or something you're expecting to raise the hands after they've been shot you know it's like okay fair enough and I think the worst example of this is towards the end of the film and I doubt anybody cares about spoilers but if you do then please skip ahead a couple of minutes it basically the general who they rescue ends up getting like he nearly escapes and he nearly gets on like a federation like shuttle
00:21:42
Speaker
And the guy comes in like, Night of the Living Dead. Is it Night of the Living Dead? Oh, uh, Evil Dead. Evil Dead, that's it. He comes up and he's got like two LMGs or something and he's just like, hey General! And then he shoots him repeatedly and it's supposed to be like this climax and you know, oh he saved the day. He's the, you know, as the subtitle says, the hero of the Federation. Yeah, I guess.
00:22:07
Speaker
And for some reason they make a big deal about it because they rescue the pregnant woman but they don't rescue him because he's like traitors like don't return home or something. Yeah, it's something like logically like, I feel like they couldn't resolve this quietly. No, no, no time. Yeah, for someone who is a traitor who would never make it home, they make a pretty big deal about him when they get home.
00:22:34
Speaker
like, oh we've got a statue, we've even got like a video of them. You know, you're like, uh, okay. And can I just say, sorry, before we move on to the next film, they already use a, well maybe not a lot, but they do reuse like a good couple of scenes from the first film. Mainly like the carpet bomb scene.
Failed Satire and Continuity Issues
00:22:51
Speaker
they love re-using that where it's like at the very beginning they've got the recruiter and this is one of my pet peeves of the film and I suppose the franchise as a whole so in the first film there is and I think the book starts with this as well where one of the main characters in fact it's the character played by Michael Ironside and he says
00:23:13
Speaker
Come on, you wipes, you wanna live forever. To which then, Caspar Van Dien's character, Johnny Rico, imitates that towards the end of the film because he's taken his old leader's place and he yells at everybody. I think that's the last, or one of the last lines in the film is,
00:23:30
Speaker
Come on, you wipes, you wanna live forever? And it's like, okay, that's cool because, you know, it's a continuation. But then at the very beginning, and correct me if I'm wrong, I can't remember if it's the beginning or the end, but the promoter comes on with this shabby, unironed costume. It probably is ironed, but for the sake of the joke, it's unironed. Walks in like a sleazy car salesman and he's like, come on, you wipes, you wanna live forever? You know, it's like...
00:23:57
Speaker
I'm expecting him to lure me into a van with his copy of Starship Troopers. It's like, really? Is this gonna be like everybody's gonna be seeing this in this universe? Joe I remind me of. See in Star Wars where a lot of the characters say I have a bad feeling about this.
00:24:14
Speaker
And I think it was Han Solo that says, I could be wrong, I could be losing all my geek credit here, but I'm sure it was. It's like, he's like, oh, I have a bad feeling about this. And then all of a sudden, everybody in the Star Wars universe is saying, oh, I have a bad feeling about this. It seems like it's the same thing here. And then, of course, we get the end where the recruiters like, oh, fresh meat for the grinder. And he is pointing at a baby while his mother holds him.
00:24:40
Speaker
And that's the only, quote unquote, satire we get in this film. And that's another reason why it fails, is because the satire of the original Starship Troopers was so integral to, again, why that film is so great to watch. This has nothing. Well, unless it was on such a deep level that I completely missed it. But for me, that's the only bit they even get close to doing. It's like they got to the end, they were like, oh, crap, we haven't put satire in quickly. I went to a baby and call it meat. Done. Good job, Phil.
00:25:09
Speaker
You're welcome. Now I must
Satirical Elements in Starship Troopers 3
00:25:11
Speaker
go. My visual effects team needs me. And he just flies into the sky with presumably better effects. Yeah, you're right. You hit the nail on the head there. There's no satire or anything else that fits into the Starship Troopers universe. It just seems like it could be any other generic The Thing ripoff film. Yeah, there's no identity. I think that really sums it up. There's just no identity of its own.
00:25:37
Speaker
It's a shame because I do like it when films do try to do something different but it just didn't work in this case. It really just didn't work and it's a shame. So A for F or F, but you get a solid F from me. How about you Adam? How would you rank this film?
00:25:53
Speaker
It's terrible. Sorry Mr Phil, but it's terrible. And it's just because it feels so detached from the first film. I remember watching it with you, and I remember watching the second film and I was thinking, has that tsunami put the wrong disc in? Is this the right film? I was like, the costumes look the same.
00:26:14
Speaker
The Iraqis look the same, but this isn't Starship Troopers. It's not. So yeah, it gets an F from me as well. So what you're saying is it doesn't get citizenship? No, exactly. Yeah, it gets hung in a public execution. Oh Jesus. I mean, you're not wrong, but Jesus. I get to pull the rope. I can imagine you just like, dear Mr Phil, can I pull the rope on your horrendous film? Yours sincerely Adam the Sandwich.
00:26:44
Speaker
And speaking of Jesus, that brings us on to the third instalment of the franchise, that being Starship Troopers Marauders. It's a film, it's a continuation. What did you think of it? Because I had seen this before, and I think when I came over to visit you, this was the first time you were really exposed to this film.
00:27:03
Speaker
Yeah, I had no idea that Starship Troopers had sequels until you informed me and then brought them into my abode. But so this felt more like a Starship Troopers film. After whatever the second one was, this felt much more like, I felt back on kind of, I was like, okay, you know, I'm on firmer ground now, I know where I'm at. That being said, it feels like still a very kind of pale imitation.
00:27:28
Speaker
of the original you know at least it feels more similar but you know it's like it's like looking at like a bad a4 print off of the Mona Lisa rather than doing Paris to see it. Wow the what what a metaphor you're not wrong but
00:27:45
Speaker
It's a weird one. I have very mixed feelings about it. It definitely feels more like a Starship Troopers film than two does, so that in itself kind of elevates it right above number two for me, but at the same time, ugh.
00:28:00
Speaker
I
Character and Plot Criticisms in Starship Troopers 3
00:28:01
Speaker
don't know. Personally for me, and this might be controversial, well I was about to say this is a controversial opinion but I don't think there's going to be many Starship Troopers 3 fans coming after me after me admitting this but I don't really like the satire in this film. Just purely because in the first film there was all these nuances and things. How they went from the beginning, the first film where it was all kind of
00:28:28
Speaker
I mean, don't get me wrong, there was a lot of satire that was in your face. Like, join the mobile infantry. It's great, you know. Sorry, I didn't realise Tony the Tiger had joined the mobile infantry there. I'm doing my part.
00:28:42
Speaker
I'm doing my part!" It's like, oh no. Tony, please! Yeah, and he was never seen again after Planet P's invasion. It just seems a little bit too on the nose because as I said, the first film kind of has like subtleties to the satire, a bit like Robocop and, you know, Everhoven's other work whereas for this one it's like, ha ha, look, we were space fascists. Did you know we were space fascists? Ha ha, space fascists. And it's like, I
00:29:09
Speaker
Get that's what we've established in this universe, you know that the Federation are space fascists, but what were your thoughts? Comparing this to the first film for a second.
00:29:20
Speaker
I totally agree. I totally agree in regards to like, you know, fascism kind of aspects and stuff. This is, this beats you over the head with it. Like, you're like, yep, yep. No, I understand. No, I get it. No, no room for doubt here. Why do you like those? It does. It does. The film does kind of add some new kind of strands of satire into it, which I actually really like. I actually think it might be like the best bits of the film.
00:29:42
Speaker
for me. There's kind of an explanation of the kind of a cult of personality type thing in that the Sky Marshal and like how he's built up like as like the leader of the Federation everything and the way it's done is quite funny. He's almost like a kind of like pop star like almost like Justin Bieber type and I think that's really funny and I actually think that's actually quite good satire. Also as well there's a lot about religion here.
00:30:05
Speaker
and the kind of Federation's relationship with religion, which I really actually like and I think is done with a bit of nuance. It's still not as good as how the first film handles its satirical elements, but it's done with a bit more nuance here.
Final Thoughts and Reboot Hopes
00:30:19
Speaker
When the film starts, the government is so anti-religion because
00:30:22
Speaker
Most Christianity is mostly what it's talking about here. But yeah, it's anti Christianity because it's like, oh, that's peace. You know, we're all about war and strength and everything. So they're like they're cracking down on, you know, on any kind of organized religion. And it's like an end. It's like a, you know.
00:30:36
Speaker
It's almost something like, you know, like the Soviet Union or something like a communist society, like standard stamp out religion. But like, as at the end of the film, it's the government, the Federation has co-opted religion. And so there's like a great line where it's like guards back and he's a citizen too. And it's a great way that like, because that is something that has happened in history as well. And then like the way that governments and states have co-opted religion to like legitimize themselves and power and you know, and war as well to an extent.
00:31:03
Speaker
So I like that dynamic there. I think that the film actually handles that pretty well. So, but I agree from the kind of like, as you say, from the kind of looking at the kind of fascist aspects of it. Yeah, it's just you're getting bludgeoned here with it. Like you're facing a stormtrooper. It's just bludgeoning you.
00:31:18
Speaker
Oh, a hundred percent, yeah. I have to admit, I do agree with you in the sense that I liked the idea of, as you said, the religious aspect of it and them trying to use that as just another method of control and legitimization of the Federation. What I'm quite confused at though is there's one particular character who goes around like openly praying. Surely somebody would have flagged her up to like her superiors or something.
00:31:46
Speaker
I don't know, because as we were saying before, the Federation is basically the be-all and end-all in this universe. It's like the kind of one absolute that people report to. And for people to substitute that for something else, like, you know, faith, or even in the later films, which, don't worry, we'll get to them. They talk about the ideas of independence and things like that. The Federation is supposed to be the main pillar of this universe, and yeah, you've got this person openly being like,
00:32:14
Speaker
Oh yeah, I pray to God. And you're like, huh, interesting. That you haven't been arrested for treason. Yeah, it's a fair point. But she is an air stewardess, so, you know. Ah, true. It's more business. Do you not have to be a citizen, though? To serve on a ship? Or to be part of the... I get what you mean. That is essentially her role. But is she not part of the fleet or something? Or is she just there to serve the air marshal? I'm gonna be honest, I don't know.
00:32:42
Speaker
Join us next week as we dive... Nah, I'm only kidding. We're not returning to this film. But yeah, going back to your point about the propaganda in this film, I'm not gonna lie. See the newsreels? Absolute love them as well. That was by far one of my favourite parts in the first one as well. And it definitely has one of the greatest highlights of this film.
00:33:06
Speaker
that of course being the Sky Marshall's number one hit single, It's a Good Day to Die. And my god, is it catchy. If you haven't heard of it, pause this episode, go onto YouTube, type in It's a Good Day to Die Starship Troopers 3, look up, listen to it, it's only about two and a half minutes along, then come back, listen to this episode and tell us what you think because it is a bop. No doubt it is. It's amazing.
00:33:29
Speaker
and it comes out of nowhere as well, well think about it nowhere but like it's so unexpected and you're like what and it's just like oh my god this is amazing oh i love it the first time i heard it i thought okay this this is all right this is kind of catchy and then you know by the end of it it's like you're singing along it's like oh my god i'm a member of the federation oh no better put the apology tweets i guess i'm a fascist now
00:33:56
Speaker
Oh no, the sky marshal warned me about this.
Overall Disappointment and Franchise Impact
00:34:00
Speaker
Jokes aside, it is legitimately like a very catchy song and I remember sending the song to people and they were like oh cool was that a song from the 80s or not the 80s the 90s and I was like no this is from 2008 and they were like oh and I was like oh yeah mm-hmm yeah.
00:34:22
Speaker
Oh yeah, the 20th century. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. I think it's the 2100s. Although it could be. I don't know. I'm not going to fact check. Starship Troopers. We're not going to fact check. Let us know. That is your question for the podcast. What year was Starship Troopers 3? Well done. And yeah.
00:34:41
Speaker
Yeah, well we'll talk about the bad aspects of it then. It's not as strong as the first one, which I know kind of goes without saying, but between the plot and everything else that's going on, like I do, as I said before, I do like the kind of like they're introducing religion and things and the you know propaganda but
00:35:02
Speaker
You'll hear me repeating myself a lot here because I feel as if that's the only good things about this film. Like, Caspar Van Dien returns and he's still got a mighty chin, so there is that. Like, I do like the fact he still does his character to this day. Like, he returned for the fourth and fifth film, the CGI ones, Invasion and Traitor of Mars, which it is kinda cool that he's still, like, playing this character. So, if and when they do, like, the reboot,
00:35:30
Speaker
of Starship Troopers. I really hope he's got a cameo or something, because it would be great. He really is dedicated to the character. I hope he's still playing Johnny Rico back at high school. Oh my god. Yeah, he was like 29, was he not? Or 27? Yeah, he filed for hell in his 40s. Hello fellow high school students. When he does the awkward dance, when he puts his hands in the air and is like, ooh! How about that Federation, eh? Oh god, imagine. I would watch that though. I would 100% watch that film. But I did
00:35:59
Speaker
So yeah, it was kind of cool seeing Johnny Rico, the man, the myth, the legend, coming back. There is one pet peeve, and this is me putting them on airglasses here, but there's a scene where I think the sky marshal greets him and he's like, ah, welcome Johnny Rico, the hero of planet P. And can I just say that he wasn't the hero? It was actually Zinn that found the brain bug. It wasn't him.
00:36:23
Speaker
Yeah, poor Zim. He doesn't even get the recognition that he deserves. He went out to private to find the brain bug, and he did. He did. That is a minor, compared to some of the worst aspects of the film. That is a very minor tidbit. Can we talk about the animation? Let's do it! Yeah.
00:36:38
Speaker
animation has taken a severe nosedive in this film. I don't know what happened. I think Phil went on like a sabbatical leave or something. There is no way he was involved in this. They're all like horrible layered on CGI messes I suppose is the right one. Like just for the warrior bugs. I mean some of the other bug designs are cool. I mean you've got the kamikaze bugs that they called. Remember the ones where it's like their beetle rolled up into a ball.
00:37:07
Speaker
I mean, it's a cool idea but like, what is their life cycle? Like, are they just born with bombs in their stomach and then they just chuck them over?
00:37:21
Speaker
What was the brain bug thinking behind that? And I know I haven't seen Rick and Morty, so I probably shouldn't make a reference. But it's like, you know when Rick makes the butter robot? It's like, what is my purpose? Your purpose is to pest butter. Oh my god. Or to pass the salt or something like that. That's what these bugs are like. It's like, what is my purpose? Your purpose is to blow up in front of the Federation. Oh my god.
00:37:46
Speaker
And that's that. You get the Scorpion bug, which is quite cool, but again, they seem more mechanical than, you know, like the organic. Because, I mean, at least, say what you will about the first film, but at least the bugs felt more organic, you know, whereas these ones feel a little bit more mechanical, except for when they return with the Brain bug, which is a cool, like, callback.
00:38:07
Speaker
I have mixed feelings about the finale. Bug, shall we say? Beetho McCaw or Mccoyba or whatever it's called. Yeah, that looks very dodgy, what we say. Yeah. Yeah, it does look a bit shoddy. Yeah, look it up. Pause the episode, go look it up in Google or watch the scene if you're brave enough on YouTube and then come back. Did you watch it? Yep. So, yeah. Horror. What did you say? The horror. Oh, the horror.
00:38:37
Speaker
allowing the witch in the sheer horror of that scene. I like the idea of it. It's just in the execution that was like, huh, this is a thing. And yeah, this is actually, funny enough, this is the only film until the new ones, or the CGI ones.
00:38:54
Speaker
This is the only film that features Power Armor in the entire three live-action films, which is absolutely surreal because the Power Armor in the books was something very heavily focused on. Whereas in this, it's like, oh yeah, we've got these secret suits that there is a scene where they have to strip off to scan themselves or something to become teen power. That bit is awful. I'm just saying. Yeah. That bit, gratuitous. I don't think it even describes it.
00:39:24
Speaker
Why? Why did they need to be naked?
00:39:27
Speaker
like it's here's the thing like I'm actually in the reference like a nudity scene in the first film and I can't believe I'm like doing this but here we go so in the first film there is a scene where everyone's naked and they're all in a shower and you know it's I think we said this in the episode when we did it but it's like it seems like a very like platonic scene it's like it's not done it's not gratuitous in the sense that they're not zooming in on certain angles or they're not doing it's just they're just washing and that's it
00:39:55
Speaker
and you know they're like laughing with one another they're like comrades in arms you know there's nothing kind of seedy about it in this one they're just like oh yeah we're gonna scan you for these like mixes oh yeah yeah strip and it's like wait what i just want to pilot a mix suit and it's like oh no no no no you have to trip for that
00:40:17
Speaker
What kind of anime shit is this? Like, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't, like any book readers out there that have read, like, the, you know, the Starship Troopers book, I mean, I haven't gotten that far yet, but correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think they had to be naked to get into Power Armor. I mean, there could be like a significant chapter later on detailing the nitty-gritty of it, which I hope to God there's not. Yeah, just, there's no reason for it. And can I just say, the whole Power Armor thing doesn't come in until about, what, three quarters of the way through? If not.
00:40:50
Speaker
Yeah, so the reason they go into Power Armours is because Johnny Rico's friend comes to visit with Sky Marshal and he's in his basically SS cosplay and he comes in with a big black trench coat and everything in the hat, you know the drill, and he comes in and he gets drunk and he gets into a fight with these farmers who
00:41:11
Speaker
clearly are not a huge fan of the Federation and he nearly shoots one of them and Rico stops him and I think he punches him like afterwards to which you know he says oh that's treason so Rico gets locked up and you know he gets he's about to get hung for treason and eventually he doesn't he gets saved because he's old friend needs him to save his girlfriend to crash landed on the bug world planet and yeah
00:41:37
Speaker
That's a thing so he uses them to like go into you know this horrible horrible situation which again it's just it's a scene that's there it's like like remember how they said this in later last episodes where I was talking about the scene after Disney's funeral where Neil Patrick had a says you know like
00:41:57
Speaker
Listen up boys and girls, this is war, and you know all of this. And then Rico just out of nowhere is like, that's what the Momo infantry does, you know? And you're like, okay, Casper, okay, can you say that line with a bit more feeling? But it seems like it's a very similar scene, if you know what I mean, where it's just like, there's no reaction there. Like he's nearly got hung for, you know, for like all the wrong reasons. And then he's like, oh, okay, I'll power him next suit, and that's it.
00:42:23
Speaker
And that actually leads on to one of your favourite scenes where they use the barbed wire incorrectly. Do you want to explain that? Yeah they made a wall of it.
00:42:39
Speaker
No, I'm not gonna get it done, because that's the most niche, I feel like some of the most niche, like any barbed wire fans out there, barbed wire specialists out there, don't watch this, don't watch that and see if it's horrifying, the misuse of barbed wire. You know, this film feels like, the two main strands of this film,
00:42:56
Speaker
as you said like kind of Rico's Journey and then sort of like the Sky Marshal and Rico's friends and girlfriends like Journey, sorry I forgot her name, like they feel so disparate and so separate like they don't belong together because Rico's kind of Journey is more like more akin to the first film and it kind of fits in. The stuff with the Sky Marshal when they crash land on that planet again it doesn't feel like Starship Troopers. It's like did you ever ever a film called Pitch Black? Oh yes.
00:43:26
Speaker
with that Vin Diesel character Riddick. The ship crash lands in a small group of survivors on this alien planet. Again, it's like they're going for that vibe. And again, I'm going to harp on this. That's not Starship Troopers. And as well, there's lots of scenes of them, this group walking and stuff, and it almost tries to become a philosophical treatise.
00:43:48
Speaker
points like the sky marsh was talking about god and everything and is like getting into all this stuff and again that's not what this universe is about like the film isn't suited to that kind of discussion it's it's a but it's got satirical elements but you know like it's not the way it's done so again it just it feels again like they've chosen source material that doesn't fit the universe and also doesn't fit the acting talent because
00:44:11
Speaker
I'm sorry like you know I was gonna say no offense but some offense to the actors and this like they can't that they're not that great they can't they can't handle this kind of material so again like it's just weird how they just these two elements of this film feel so separate I just don't sit well and they kind of awkwardly come together in a finale at the end and it's just like oh well done for jamming the two together but maybe you shouldn't have
00:44:31
Speaker
You tried, but you failed. There is a lot that just doesn't mesh with this. Do you know what it reminds me of? It honestly makes me think of someone, again I'm going to use like Jeremy or Jeffrey or whoever he used as an example for the second film, but it reminds me of like if a person wrote like a fan fiction for Starship Troopers 1, but they ramped up the satire to 11. Yeah.
00:44:59
Speaker
or 1100 at this rate and they kind of missed all the subtleties that went along with it because as I said don't get me wrong like Starship Troopers wasn't the most subtle film to begin with but it had those elements where that brought you back and you know when you rewatch it you thought oh okay right okay this is interesting how this relates to that
00:45:17
Speaker
with this it just seems like action set piece after action set piece and oh we've got a sky marshal you know we've got this giant world bug which oh at first it looks awesome and cool and creepy and then you realize what's on its face and you go oh okay Phil Tippett clearly wasn't consultant here or maybe it was like i will eat my hat well jokes and people at home i don't wear a hat haha but
00:45:40
Speaker
If I did were I would eat it like if he was involved in this but it's surely not because the bugs look terrible. There is a great scene where a guy like dies because of a shovel and it is like I do really like that set you know like the trenches and things like that and they have to protect themselves against the bugs with like
00:46:01
Speaker
electric fences which as goofy as it is I still think that kind of aesthetic is cool but then they just look much like the bugs that are born to die they just blow up and it's like okay onto the next step piece you know we've got earth and then we've got the big bug planet and then we're back to earth again then back to the bug planet where like alas kind of harping on the the over the top satire but
00:46:23
Speaker
But there's one particular scene at the very end where it's the two female leads who, you know, they're trapped and the Sky Marshal has been, and I'm using this in the nicest term possible, he's been eaten and, you know, he gets numbed by this huge, you know, whirl bug and it's like, oh my god, what's going to happen?
00:46:40
Speaker
you know and the religious like woman turns to the one who's clearly like an atheist which makes more sense in this universe but anyway she is like come on pray with me and they're praying together and then the you know the atheist woman looks up and she's like oh my god and you know she's like what is it and a halo forms over
00:47:00
Speaker
and the woman's head and it turns out that in the distance it's all the marauder suits that are coming down and I bet you whoever wrote that scene was just like oh genius genius this is absolute genius I was like no are you sure about that
00:47:16
Speaker
then yeah it's just nonsensical action when they just blow everything up and you're like okay fair enough just oh ship troopers 3 everybody you know that's it like the film kind of ends with another propaganda rio um johnny reco says the iconic come on you wipes you wanna live forever and then it's like i guess
00:47:46
Speaker
I have to admit, although this definitely isn't the best out the trilogy of films, if you
00:47:53
Speaker
can even call it a trilogy because you know you have the first one which is this definitive introduction into the world and everything you've got the second one which is just a complete spin-off and then the third one kind of tries to tie it back into the first one and sometimes it succeeds sometimes it doesn't overall like i'm gonna regret asking this but what was your like overall impression and experience of this
00:48:16
Speaker
Yeah, I don't like calling it a trilogy because I really feel these last two films cheapen the first one. Like, I actually genuinely think the first one is brilliant. And having watched it again, I just have so much respect for it. And I think it's great. These two aren't. They aren't great. They're not even good. The second one is bad. It's really, really bad. This, the third one, the third one's bad.
00:48:40
Speaker
but I wouldn't go to really, really bad. It's like very damning with faint praise. It does feel like more of a sequel, which is nice. It feels more of like it belongs, but at the same time, it doesn't earn a seat at the table with the original. So I don't know. I like to look at two and three as just separate entities on a completely different planet. Let's just have Starship Troopers 1 by itself as the gem that it really is. But you are forgetting that we do have two more films to go over.
00:49:09
Speaker
you know what I tried to forget but it's true unfortunately which I have to admit I didn't realise until I think it came out on Netflix yeah no surprise bad sci-fi film comes out on Netflix everybody's surprised up the presses
00:49:24
Speaker
on the presses indeed. In fact, I remember watching it not realising it was a Starship Troopers album, cos I saw it was like Starship Troopers Invasion, and I was like, oh, okay, that's interesting. And then they did the, c'mon, you wiped your one all in forever. And I was like, oh, okay. Or no, it wasn't that, sorry. What they did was, they started with
00:49:43
Speaker
I think a line in the book maybe or something like that. They did something quite familiar and I was like, huh, that sounds awful familiar as well. And then I'm sitting there and then all of a sudden I see the arachnids and I'm like, wait a minute. This looks an awful lot like Starship Troopers. And you know, yeah, they realize very quickly that it was Starship Troopers and they're like, huh. So they made two more films after this. I think by different companies, but you know what? That is indeed a discussion for another day, which you're definitely looking forward to that one.
00:50:12
Speaker
Yeah, do you know what, it'll be another experience. It'll be another chance to release. It'll be another feather in your bad movie cap, that's for sure. Just a quick wrapping up point, would you recommend these films to either any moviegoers or die-hard Starship troopers fans? The second film, no. I wouldn't recommend the second film to anybody.
00:50:33
Speaker
Like, it's not good in the Starship Troopers canon, it's not a good film. I don't even really think it's a film that you can like... I kind of enjoyed watching it with you more than I would have enjoyed watching it myself. It's not one of these, like, pantheos where you can, like, laugh at it with other people and it's fun to watch. It's not like...
00:50:56
Speaker
It's not like Samurai Cop or something like that, which I think is a lot of fun to watch with other people. The third film, if you're not a Starship Troopers fan, or like you don't know anything about it, I wouldn't recommend it. You know what, if you really like Starship Troopers 1, yeah, go go watch, go watch 3. I can guarantee you'll like it, but I think there's probably some stuff in there that at the very least don't make you want to go back and watch Starship Troopers 1. And that's like, you know, if that's all the film achieves, then you know, that's still a good thing.
00:51:21
Speaker
I was going to say glowing praise later but glowing praise from a 30 watt bulb. Now I would agree with that. The second one, especially for me, don't go see it. I wish you'd really hate someone and you ask them to watch it for a movie review. Wait a second. Wait a minute. And on that note, yes, that's rough. No, jokes aside, the second one, nah, absolutely not.
00:51:47
Speaker
you can check it out for morbid curiosity but don't say we didn't warn you we're like the old men in front of the haunted house saying don't go in there and you know all the kids say you'll get and tell me what to do and yeah they end up getting eaten by the house you silly children anyway if you want to check it out do so at your own discretion the third one yeah check it out if you want but it's not a must-see of the franchise so yeah i totally agree with that on that note yeah thank you for enduring these films with me you're more than welcome like you know i
00:52:17
Speaker
I am very glad to have had a chance to talk about these because I would have been a severely crossed man if I had told you the rest of my life, having watched Starship Troopers 2 and 3 without the chance to vent and discuss. I would have been a very, very unhappy man. Actually, I didn't want to say this, but the last recording we did there when I stopped it may have corrupted itself.
00:52:46
Speaker
Moreover, I will not be denied. Stop the recording. I want another girl. In all caps. In all seriousness, thank you so much for both discussing this with me and enduring the films themselves and enduring a mixed up pizza. So yeah, there was a quadruple of whammy that day. But worth it to give me a chance to rewatch the original?
00:53:10
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. It was worth the sequels and the pizza fiasco, just so I could watch the original and just appreciate algorithm. Go watch the original. I'll say it again. Go watch the original. It's great. Definitely. Seconded. Go watch it. Become a citizen now. Join up. Yeah, watch the second. No, watch the first. Oh, Chrissie, are you done?
00:53:33
Speaker
And on that note, yeah, let's cut this transmission. Thank you all so so much for listening once again to another episode of Chatsunami. As always, stay safe, stay awesome, stay hydrated and if you want to know more, go check us out on Anchor, Spotify and all good podcast apps. Catch you in the next episode.