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Episode 34: Petronella Lugemwa - Finding Your Ideal Client
160 Plays6 years ago
Today’s guest is Petronella Lugemwa of Petronella Photography, and we’re chatting all about strategies for connecting with your ideal client.
Petronella has an incredible background—she was born in Uganda, moved to the states from Zimbabwe, has an MBA and undergraduate degree in Chemical Engineering, and she worked with big brands like Cover Girl, Advil, and Splenda.
That's all before becoming a wedding and marriage proposal photography specializing in helping multicultural couple celebrate their love in a modern way.
We dig into how Petronella figured out who she wanted to serve, and then she shares steps for figuring out in your own business.
For more resources and the show notes, head on over to https://daveyandkrista.com/btb-petronella-lugemwa-episode-34.
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Transcript
Viral Wedding Video: Analyzing Engagement
00:00:05
Speaker
50,000, like a Blasian couple. It was one of my earlier weddings, which I feel like the work is not my super, super most amazing. But I'm like, what about this is connecting? And you sort of go and you look at the comments and you see where is it being reposted and why and what is it about this that's making people get excited?
Brands at Book Show Introduction
00:00:31
Speaker
Welcome to the Brands at Book Show, where we help creative service-based businesses build their brands and find more clients. I'm your host, Davy Jones. Today's guest is Petronella of Petronella Photography, and we're chatting all about strategies for connecting with your ideal client.
00:00:52
Speaker
Petronella has an incredible background. She was born in Uganda, moved to the States from Zimbabwe, has an MBA and an undergraduate degree in chemical engineering, and she's worked with big brands like CoverGirl, Advil, and Splenda.
Petronella's Journey: Engineering to Photography
00:01:06
Speaker
All this before becoming a wedding and marriage proposal photographer, specializing in helping multicultural couples celebrate their love in a modern way.
00:01:16
Speaker
We dig into how Petronella figured out who she wanted to serve, and then she shares steps for figuring out that in your own business.
00:01:24
Speaker
But before we get to the episode, if you're revisiting your website this season, we have stuff for you to check out. Head on over to giveaway.davianchrista.com for your chance to win a website template. You can find all the details over at giveaway.davianchrista.com. Be sure to check out the show notes at davianchrista.com for the resources we mentioned during the episode. And I'd like to hear from you about what kind of content you'd like to see on the Brands at Book podcast as we move forward.
00:01:51
Speaker
I'd also like to know what episodes you've enjoyed most so far and why. To leave your feedback, head on over to the Davey and Krista Facebook page and send us a message. Now onto the episode.
Cultural Challenges and Identity
00:02:09
Speaker
Petronello, welcome to the show. I'm so happy to have a fellow podcaster here with me this morning.
00:02:17
Speaker
Yay, thanks for having me. I'm super excited. We met at the United Conference and I remember being like, I seem like a good, good people to get to know. Yeah, well, I really enjoyed the conversation that we had while we were at United Together. And you're actually East Coast as well too, right? Yeah, yeah, based out of the New Jersey, New York area. Yeah, yeah. So it's funny, you know, like where we meet, we meet on the opposite side of the country, even though we probably live a couple hours from each other.
00:02:42
Speaker
Exactly. Because you guys are in Maryland, right? Yeah. Yeah, that's right. There's so much to dig into here today. But really, what we're going to focus on are strategies on how to attract your ideal client. But you have such an interesting story. And I really want to start there. And one thing that we do in each episode, we take a little bit of time to hear our guest entrepreneurial story. But I want to back up even a little bit before that. And I just want to go through a couple of these things. I mean, you were born in Uganda.
00:03:09
Speaker
You lived in Zimbabwe until you were 10 years old and then before you moved to the States. And you have your education, your background is chemical engineering and you have an MBA. I mean, we'll talk about your photography credentials here in a second because those are just as impressive, especially some of the stuff you've been doing lately. I mean, worked on the cover of Rainfinder magazine, right? And named one of 30 rising stars in wedding photography. So there's plenty to talk about there.
00:03:38
Speaker
But can we back up a little bit? What was it like moving countries at 10 years old? Great question. Keeping it real is tough. It's tough. It's tough to immigrate from another country. I would say especially as an upcoming teenager, 10 years old,
Embracing Cultural Heritage
00:03:53
Speaker
trying to fit in. And we moved to Birmingham, Alabama, which is very black and white and very not down with foreigners. And so it was just a hard experience. My parents were very much like, we will hold on to our Ugandan tradition. We will like everything. But it was completely opposite to what American tradition was about.
00:04:12
Speaker
completely, just completely different in every single way. And so that actually, yeah, that shaped who I was because I ended up being like, my parents aren't cool and this whole like eating this kind of food and all these traditions that we have, that's not cool. And that's not helping me be accepted by, you know, my friends and family, well, friends and in high school. So I didn't tell anyone my last name. I kind of abandoned that part of myself just to get acceptance in high school, if that makes sense.
00:04:42
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I'm thinking back to middle school and high school and how I thought that was challenging. I can't even imagine moving across the world, especially to it's not like moving from Canada to the US either. It's completely different. But you have re-embraced a lot of that, right?
00:05:04
Speaker
Yeah, I'm proud to be Ugandan American. Very proud. But I wasn't always that way. I never told people my last name. I think you can hear it in my voice. I know people will be like, what? She looks black. I talk white. I do. Keeping it real. Yeah. So now I'm pretty. I love myself. I love my hair. I'll sometimes wear African print attire.
00:05:27
Speaker
And I love helping other people celebrate their heritage and their cultural background because I know for so many people coming into different environments, you have to repress that part of yourself to make it work and to make others feel comfortable. And I feel like on your wedding day, you know, you should celebrate it, like loud and clear and I embrace it and I love it, so.
00:05:48
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that's probably a good segue to start talking about your entrepreneurial journey specifically. When did that start? I mean, it sounds like in college, having a degree in chemical engineering, right? Or having a background in chemical engineering. Sounds like maybe photography wasn't on the radar.
00:06:05
Speaker
No, so I definitely have, if you know immigrant parents, they're all of, there's like four careers that you're allowed to have. Engineer, a doctor, a lawyer, like, get the last one. But those are only acceptable things. Sure. Science is hard sciences. And my parents are in math and science hard. So did the engineering thing. And then my parents were like, gotta get a second degree. I have to get a second degree. It's just like, I
Career Transition: From Pfizer to Photography
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Speaker
have to. It's just like,
00:06:29
Speaker
If you understand the immigrant culture, if you get that, it's all about education and, you know, just go get the best and do, do, do. So I got an MBA, did that, but I always had a love for photos. I'm a pretty shy, quiet person in real life. And my way of sort of expressing myself is through my photos. So I think it was while I was working at Pfizer on Advil, Brandon, one of my co-workers was like, oh, come to Mexico and shoot our wedding.
00:06:57
Speaker
And she had seen a little bit of my work, just my play, sort of like, let me just take photos of random things. And yeah, shot her wedding and was like, whoa! Like, my heart was like, I love this. I love it, love it, love it. How can I do it more? And, oh, Pfizer, Fayyeth was merging with Pfizer. So I got laid off and something planned. I was like, oh, I don't like this feeling.
00:07:19
Speaker
We got to figure out how to make photography full time. So I began to slowly figure things out. How does the camera work? All that good stuff. And then.
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one day got the opportunity to just jump and jumped. And now here I am doing photography, loving it. Took my parents a long time to sort of transition from seeing it as a hobby. They were like, so are you using that engineering degree? So hey, how does that work in photography? And I'm like, I am, I am. I think differently as a creative.
00:07:54
Speaker
Yeah. And, you know, you had mentioned Pfizer there. And I know you worked with other you work the cover girl, it looked like Splenda, you worked with some consumer goods within marketing. So I mean, you just have you just have a crazy expansive background. But I'm sure I'm sure at some level. So while you might not be using the chemical engineering stuff within photography, does that MBA help at all as you were starting your business?
Coaching and Defining Ideal Clients
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Speaker
Yes, it did. It's such a weird animal, because I'm like,
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Speaker
I understand the principles, like four P's, like porters forces, you know, all that good stuff, distribution, all that good stuff. So I knew those principles coming in and I knew that I needed to have a very clear vision. So in terms of structuring my business and setting it up and having a clear vision, I think that's where it helped a lot.
00:08:44
Speaker
I will very clearly say I've always sought additional resources, mentors, because when you're so close to your baby, you can't see things, right? You're like, why doesn't everyone love my thing? I love it. You know, that background together with just amazing, phenomenal people who have come into my life has really sort of helped shape the brand.
00:09:04
Speaker
Yeah, I love that insight on coaching too. I think that's important for everybody here is that there needs to be trusted outside voices that speak into your business that can, like in the Emperor's New Clothes, be able to just call you out on your BS.
00:09:19
Speaker
So, I am so glad that you mentioned that. And talking about just getting super specific in your business and that's kind of what we're going to be talking about here. But first, before we get to that, actually, I want to mention one more thing. Can you tell people a little bit about your podcast? And I just want to bring that up because I don't want to wait till the end and I want people to hear about it. So, tell us a
Podcasting Multicultural Relationships
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Speaker
little bit about your podcast.
00:09:45
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So just so people understand. So I'm a wedding and marriage proposal photographer who specializes in helping multicultural couples celebrate their love in a modern way. Do that. Love it. It's awesome. Now I started a podcast because I share all these beautiful, pretty images of people like, yay, we got married and I'm of this culture or this faith and we're coming together. And I felt like there may be a need for people to further understand, well, how do those people
00:10:13
Speaker
get come together and how do they make their relationship work? And so that's where the idea for the podcast came in is, you know, after the wedding day, what is it like when you're Muslim and he's Christian or, you know, he's white and I'm Southern, like whatever African, whatever coming together, how does that work? Does it even matter? But yeah, I kind of feel like right now we're in a part of culture and life where
00:10:40
Speaker
People maybe look at different people and don't see see differences and they don't see similarities and when you listen to some of the stories of the people on the I am multi-cultural podcast you see that We are very different but at the end of the day love Family connection. It's all the same. Yeah. So yeah, okay. And so where can people find that?
00:11:02
Speaker
You can go to iTunes, Spotify, iHeartRadio, all of it. I am multicultural. All right, awesome. Definitely wanted to mention that. Definitely wanted to mention that. Especially since, you know, and that was a perfect segue because I have this written down what you do, wedding and marriage proposal photographer who specializes in helping multicultural couples celebrate their love in a modern way. And that's just, it's very specific. You know, like,
00:11:27
Speaker
Right away, I think people understand either this person is somebody that is for me or not for me. They understand exactly what you do. I want to understand how do you get to a point in your business where you've defined this? How do you go about defining that sort of statement that I think immediately either resonates with people or
Understanding and Reaching Target Audience
00:11:47
Speaker
don't? It's okay that it doesn't resonate with some people because there's people out there that you
00:11:53
Speaker
you don't want to attract. You want to attract your ideal client. Can you walk us through the steps of what that looks like? Yeah, so identifying your ideal client.
00:12:04
Speaker
I think it starts from marrying together. First of all, just identifying your strengths. What are you good at? What do people continuously come to you for? There are different paths to get there. And then thinking about what sort of like, who do you gravitate to and who do you enjoy working with and what problems are they having? And then sort of bringing that together. Does that make sense?
00:12:24
Speaker
No, yeah, absolutely. And would you say, like, I guess one of the things that's important to kind of say at the outset about this statement, did you have this statement from the very beginning of your business? Like day one, did you have this? This is, you know, what you knew you wanted to do? Oh, gosh, no. Yeah, no. And I could walk in like, hi, my name is
00:12:44
Speaker
Yeah, I'm a marriage and wedding. And I just ask it because I think that's important for people to realize too because I think some people use the whole ideal client thing as a way to. It's almost as an excuse like not to get started, right? Because, oh, I need to figure out exactly who I'm for and I need to come up with like a really creative niche or this or that. But at least for me, when we were first getting started shooting, it took a while. And I think there's people that we ended up working with that I thought would be our ideal couple.
00:13:13
Speaker
I find this even in design too. People who I think that they're going to be an ideal client for us and they end up not being that ideal client. That's a learning process, right? What did that look like for you early in your business? How did you get to this ideal client being multicultural couples who want to celebrate their love in a modern way? Oh, great question.
00:13:37
Speaker
It started off hotmess.com. It was like, please hire me, please, please, please, please. It started out very foolishly. Like, I remember I took out a, I forget how much I paid, maybe $60, $80 to put an ad in a newspaper. Cause I was like, I want everyone who gets married in my town. I want them. Like I want them. And it's funny because having an MBA, I'm like, girl, that is, no. Come on now. Like.
00:14:06
Speaker
And that's where being so close to your company. So put out an ad, got no hits. No one called, no one, like nothing happened. And I went back and I sort of thought about it. And I was kind of like, I started thinking, I thought about, so like on the Advil and all the other brands I had worked on, one thing that they do, the first thing that you do when you're sort of thinking about who to target is you sort of sketch out your ideal client. What do they do? Who did, where do they shop? What do they look like? And you come up with a name, like sort of like an avatar.
00:14:35
Speaker
Is that make sense i was like well let me just start there and i had a marisol mariela had. A couple of different people that i was like i think i would like to work with these people and is really so she like shopping here these are my favorite brand this is all this stuff so i came up with sort of that sort of framework and then i started testing it out and getting different people like that okay she likes to.
00:14:59
Speaker
She likes to be on Pinterest four or five hours a day or she likes this magazine. OK, if this isn't the person I'm going for, will she really find her photographer in
Client Communication and Marketing Language
00:15:08
Speaker
a newspaper? Does that make sense? She's at school and she's going to go to the newspaper. And they start really getting into her mind and really thinking about if I was her, what is she thinking about? What is where she getting her information?
00:15:24
Speaker
And then I literally attracted some of my avatar people, if that makes sense. I do their weddings and I'm like, oh my God, she likes Kate Spade. That was on my vision board of this is the girl I wanted to attract.
00:15:38
Speaker
So I started seeing, okay, these are the common themes and I started just sort of writing them out and realizing what those themes were across the people I enjoyed and did my best work with. So as far as that client avatar goes, I think one thing I hear you're saying is you went through that, figured out, okay, this is the kind of person that maybe is hanging out on Pinterest, but they're certainly not reading the classifieds in the newspaper. So how did that change the way you marketed your business? Like what channels do you now use within your business based on your client avatar?
00:16:08
Speaker
Oh, that's a great question. Yeah. So as you start, like when you really, you really have to put yourself in your mind of your client, like what are they thinking? What are they feeling? Where are they shopping? Why are they doing what they're doing? Because that's going to shape what you do and why you do it. So in the beginning, if you're trying to do everything, which I was trying to do,
00:16:30
Speaker
First of all, it's exhausting and annoying and it's not always, it's not gonna get your, like my ideal client actually is not on Pinterest. And there's, you know, it's like.
00:16:39
Speaker
So now I know her very well. Two reasons why because I sort of put it out there. And then in my client intake calls, I ask people a lot of questions and I just listen. People will tell you like, how did you, you know, who did you hear me from? What are you looking at? Like, how are you making these decisions? And I'm just gathering information and looking for themes. But I want to talk about the client intake calls because I think a lot of people do all of their clients intake over email.
00:17:08
Speaker
I know, yeah. Well, actually, for our photography business, that's one of the things we did. However, within the design and branding of our Davey and Krista business, I talk with nearly everybody on the phone before we ever book. Now, don't get me wrong, even in our photography business, at some point, we would do a consult call via video or something like that. If they were serious about moving forward, there were a couple of qualifying steps just to get there. But I do one of those, I guess, so I don't call it a client intake call, I call it a discovery call.
00:17:38
Speaker
I found them to be so valuable in terms of mine. Right. Yeah. And so I'm curious as to like, what are some of the themes and trends and lessons that you've picked up from doing those? You know, because I think this is a good encouragement for people who right now maybe are doing everything over email. There's just people when people are left to talk, they say extra stuff, right? You say less, I think over email.
00:18:02
Speaker
Exactly. You hear things, you hear fears, hopes, dreams. And something that I'm so passionate about, even more so now, is you need to understand how people speak and think and then take that language and position it in a way that you can attract them. So for example, earlier in my business, I had clients come to me and they're like, Petronello, we love your work. It's great. You know, like this is the client call and
00:18:29
Speaker
um you know have you done weddings in the dark like my church is kind of like dark and you know and so i continue to listen like what what else is
Consistent Brand Messaging
00:18:39
Speaker
going on with you like my church is dark oh my god i'm worried my mom is really you know she's very xyz culture and it's very loud and brash and
00:18:49
Speaker
Can you handle that? Have you dealt with that? And so you start hearing, oh my gosh, fear number one. I'm putting out images which are light, bright, airy, whatever it is. And now she doesn't think I can do this. I need to...
00:19:01
Speaker
you know, communicate that in my sales pitch or whatever that, you know, I get her, oh my god, she's of this culture. And she needs to know that I get her and that when I see her family and they're the way they are, I'm not going to be like, oh my gosh, this is too much. I can't handle this. Or does that make sense? And so yeah, absolutely. Knowing that in this final sales pitch, I'm like,
00:19:24
Speaker
hey, here are examples of fear number one, and here's examples of fear number two. I get that. And also, just making sure in my work and in the language that I use in different forms of communication, I'm immediately addressing all of that. So when somebody sees that, it's like, you get me. You know what I mean? The work sells itself to a little bit. But at the end of the day, language, I think, is so important in sort of attracting people and being like, you know,
00:19:54
Speaker
Yeah, I have a friend who's selling a workshop right now, which I and he's phenomenal. Awesome. But I remember going to the website and being like, this is not for me. Like, just the language is very outdoors, like, strong man. And I was like, I know what he's about. But I just was like,
00:20:10
Speaker
I don't think that's for me. Language is powerful. Anyway, I think I cut you off. Go ahead. No, no. That's exactly what I wanted to hear and wanted to discuss a little bit because I think people just talk so much more during a client intake call. It's so much easier to figure out what fears they have. After 10,
Evaluating Marketing Channels
00:20:29
Speaker
15 of those calls, you're going to pick up, I think, on common themes, common fears.
00:20:33
Speaker
among the people that you're working with. And like you said, this allows you to then go back to some of the materials that maybe they see before they ever book you and make sure that you're addressing some of those there. Exactly. And it certainly helps, I think, on the call then to know, okay, you know, I'm going to get on the phone with this person and I have a feeling that they're going to bring up these things.
00:20:54
Speaker
So I'm going to have either responses or examples ready, or just even the way that I frame my services, I'm going to talk about them in a way so that this person understands I can deal with these things. Exactly, exactly, exactly. Which leads to your earlier question as to how did I develop my tagline to specialize in multicultural couples, celebrate their love in a modern way. Big thing with multicultural couples because I know it.
00:21:20
Speaker
myself in terms of just managing different traditions is you want to marry together the different traditions but you're also new and hip and cool so you don't want like something old so modern I know is like a huge key word for them so yeah every single word in there is like
00:21:39
Speaker
Very specifically. Celebrate is there for a reason because that's what people continuously said. Yeah, that's awesome. So as far as you get, so you identify your ideal client, you put yourself in the mind of that client, you research them, you actually go through the process of creating that client avatar. And for people listening, I think sometimes we think, oh, that's just like a silly activity that a small business people
00:22:08
Speaker
are told to do. What you said earlier, Petronella, about Advil. All the brands do it. The Swiffer, literally every brand, yes. They go through this process and they know. They go through this process and they understand who their ideal client is in a more specific way than just, oh, yeah, I think it's this kind of person broadly. No, they actually have names for these people. You can come up with more than one client avatar.
00:22:36
Speaker
but you need to know exactly who you're speaking with. I think just so insightful there to understand that these big brands who spend millions of dollars on things like client research go through that process.
Engaging Ideal Clients on Social Media
00:22:46
Speaker
As a service-based local business, we need to do that as well. Can I add one thing to that? Absolutely. Because I know everyone is in different phases of their business. I'm sure there might be people who haven't gotten those clients and they're like, well, I don't really have work to show for it. I would say
00:23:05
Speaker
Find someone, everyone knows someone who just recently got married. If it's somebody that you're like, oh my God, I loved that person's wedding. I would love to be a part of them. Call them up, talk to them. How did you make the decisions you made? Why did you make these decisions? Really listen to their language. This is so important if you haven't attracted that person you wanted. But as you listen, you'll quickly, I've been doing this for a little bit longer and I'm still doing it. We're actually going through a lot of research now because
00:23:33
Speaker
I'm looking to attract a different kind of multicultural client and I'm like, okay, what are they thinking? What do they need? So anyway, regardless of where you are in your business, it works.
00:23:42
Speaker
Just call someone out, take them out to coffee, it's easy. I think that's great. I think that's great encouragement. And like you said, most likely you know somebody. If you're getting into wedding photography or whatever service it is, you most likely know somebody who has used a comparable service in your area. So actually getting together with that person and really listening to what they're saying.
00:24:06
Speaker
I think it's helpful. I also want to point out that I really appreciate the fact that this is something that you're continuing to do in your business. It's not something that you do once and then it's over. Like I said about early in our business, the kind of couple that we thought we wanted to work with ended up not really being that couple. You only get there through
00:24:25
Speaker
trial and error, but actually doing work. Exactly. And even I would say, you know, like, I think this carries over into other areas of business as well, like our website, you know, one thing that we do and specialize is in is search engine optimization, you know, and each year we make at least one major update to our site just
00:24:43
Speaker
you know, maybe in terms of user experience or website structure or something like that and we feel really good about it. You know, but by the end of that year, right? We're at a point where we're like, okay, we need to reevaluate some of these things. We need to go back to do some of those things. So I think it's one of those things where it's important just to do the work and realize that, hey, this is going to be – this is imperfect.
00:25:05
Speaker
but still worth doing. And it's always, there's so much to learn, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So next strategy, talking about what problem of your ideal client do you solve?
00:25:20
Speaker
What client what problems do you feel like your business solves when it comes to your ideal clients? And we talked a little bit about already I guess how to identify those problems through things like these calls I'm sure through the just the experience of working with them on their wedding days as well But how do you communicate that to your clients? So depending on what problem is like one thing for me when so that's so big with my clients is just
00:25:44
Speaker
understanding their skin tones and editing it really well because my client, it really matters that they look like themselves and they don't look like you can see them. And I am good at that. Like, yeah, the team and I go above and beyond from shooting to meeting people to actually processing the images to really nail that because that is so, so important.
00:26:08
Speaker
So I would say that shows up in the images I share. I know people get on the phone and they're like, oh, my God, how do you edit? People look like they're supposed to look like I'm like, yes, nailing that I and I probably need to talk about this SEO terms in terms of just SEOing against that, because I know that's going to pull in more people.
00:26:29
Speaker
I know in the language and some of the emails that are communicated, but really also in the final sales pitch after that person has talked and said, hey, this is I'm like, OK, just just to let you know, this is what we're really, really good at. If that's not a fit for you, you know, that's OK. But saying it again, look, really, really good at this because I know it's in there in the back of their head. So.
00:26:51
Speaker
Yeah. What are some ways that you communicate all of that to them? Is it mostly over the client intake call or is it through other means? Do you have any tips on the language that you use with clients? Great question.
YouTube Content for Multicultural Audiences
00:27:04
Speaker
This maybe goes back a little bit to my marketing background is it has to be a 360 experience if that makes sense because people need a couple of different touch points to make a decision about you.
00:27:16
Speaker
So it's on Instagram in the land. Oh gosh, Instagram. My client is on Instagram. So we like, I go hard on Instagram. Like the images you see the language that's used. I think if you don't get it, you don't get it. Does that make sense? You look at the image and be like, Oh, that's cute. I wonder why.
00:27:34
Speaker
Right. Well, that's kind of weird that she had the Mona Lisa in the background. But if you get it, like my clients into Beyonce, they came up with a new song. There was a Mona Lisa the way they're positioned, like, yeah, like, yeah, you understand the illusion of that, you know, in that photo, or you don't.
00:27:52
Speaker
But how powerful is that, right? Like, you know, that's exactly what – that's kind of the response you want, right? Is somebody who gets – sees that and gets really excited about it because they understand it versus somebody who just looks at the image and is just like, man, I mean, that's a good, you know, that's a good image, but it's, you know, there's nothing – there's no necessarily wow factor to it, you know? So – Yeah, yeah. So imagery, copy, and in every single communication, every single touch point, whether it's
00:28:20
Speaker
in the client intake, it's on Instagram or wherever you're marketing Facebook or whatever. It just needs to be the same point hammered because once you, I want to say like hit them on a 360 like they get you and they'll either love you or they won't. So I guess a follow up to that would be like what are the channels that you're showing up on to provide kind of this 360 degree experience? So for me, my big thing, Instagram is huge.
00:28:46
Speaker
and everything oh my god instagram okay so instagram it's the imagery it's the copy i use and it's the exact time i post does that make sense so sometimes i'll be like oh my gosh this popular show with my ideal client is on they're not going to see my post they're going to be watching that shows i'll wait either post it before or post it after sure it's a little cray cray but no but you know exactly what you know who you're trying to speak to
00:29:15
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. So Instagram is big. Right now, Vimeo and YouTube are coming up as big. So that's something I'm going to push a little bit more next year. And that's where they're searching. My client hasn't yet been on like I tried Pinterest, but they're not
Podcasting as Engagement Tool
00:29:30
Speaker
really on it. So I'm kind of like not putting a lot of effort there. And so can we talk about Vimeo and YouTube? Like, in what ways do you feel like clients are showing up there just doing research and things like that? Is that how you plan on, you know, expanding into?
00:29:44
Speaker
this number two behind Google in terms of a search term. And for me, because I have multicultural clients with very specific cultures, and I know what's important to them. So like Haitian, Robin, like certain terms, I know, so I will add them in the in the title. Does that make sense of the whatever? And people are searching for that because they're like, oh, my gosh, this is going to be a key part of my wedding.
00:30:10
Speaker
in my video spot, you know, like my video, you know, it's just like a photo slideshow. And, you know, but I know what moments they're looking for. So those slideshows sort of highlight some of those moments a little bit more. That makes sense. No, absolutely. So so you've got Angela, I'm Ugandan. Not a lot of people like quandola is a very specific ceremony. And so I put that out and people are like, Oh, my God.
00:30:36
Speaker
And you put that out via blog posts or all over the place, blog posts, Instagram, YouTube. Yeah, I'll keep it real. I'm not the best at blogging, but I found Instagram and YouTube gets people very quickly. Yeah, that's where they are. I like to focus more so versus waste my time on 10 different channels.
00:30:58
Speaker
No, I think that makes total sense. I think something that Krista would tell me is that I often probably spend too much time trying to be on every channel, but I'm getting a little bit better at focusing on the things that I really do enjoy and the things where I'm getting a lot of engagement, such as the podcast, doubling down on that, even going into 2019. It's really interesting to hear you talk about YouTube for a number of reasons.
00:31:22
Speaker
One, we just had Trina Little on here. She's a YouTube strategist and she talked about YouTube in 2019 and a lot of the opportunity there. And so I've even been thinking about, you know, for what we do, I can totally see a use case for showing up on YouTube. And so that's one of our – one of the places we want to show up going forward in 2019. But, you know, I guess – And you guys would do great, yeah.
00:31:43
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I mean, I hope so. And I'm kind of scared about it. I've talked in the past on the podcast about some of my fears around video, but I've gotten over the fears around podcasting and stuff like that. You're good too. Thanks. I really appreciate that. I feel like it's been a journey for sure.
00:32:03
Speaker
to hear you talk about YouTube as well. Because what we do is mostly B2B, business to business. Whereas what you're doing with wedding photography, it's business to consumer. And so it's really interesting to hear also that there's opportunity on YouTube for people who are working with
00:32:21
Speaker
within an industry like wedding photography or a B2C industry. And I know some there absolutely is, but I guess in the wedding industry specifically. So that's awesome. So for those who are listening who are wedding photographers or wedding pros, I'm telling you, take a look at YouTube.
00:32:37
Speaker
People are people. These strategies still work. You know what I mean? Yeah. So take another look at YouTube in 2019. And we've just been, you know, I still think written blog posts get read. I still think that there's value to having them for sure and just blogging in general for wedding pros who are mostly going to be showing off images of their work. I think all of that is going to continue to be important.
00:32:58
Speaker
But I think that there's just more effective ways now of communicating with
Content Strategy and Audience Resonance
00:33:03
Speaker
people. So again, fascinating to hear you talk about YouTube and Vimeo. So it's specifically what ways do you want to use YouTube and Vimeo more going forward in 2019?
00:33:13
Speaker
Let's see, I would say I think we can do a better job of highlighting the different cultures getting content out faster closer to when Events happen. I think it's gonna be crucial and is it most of the content you're putting out in these video platforms like slideshow type stuff Yeah, yeah, they're animated slideshows Okay highlight that because we do go above beyond and you know so it's like an image and you look at it and then maybe the person's hand will wave a little or like, you know, yeah, it's
00:33:41
Speaker
And you're keywording all these – like the keywords you're using are pretty intentional around cultural – different cultural ceremonies, stuff like that, right? Yes. It's knowing what my client wants and what's important to them and then pulling against that. Does that make sense?
00:33:57
Speaker
Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think that's an important distinction too to make because it's not like you're posting to YouTube and just saying wedding slideshow. Haitian weddings, check it out. Even Haitian weddings would be a step in the right direction. Yeah, even using a keyword like Haitian weddings would be at least a step in the right direction, but you're probably getting even more specific than that with your titles.
00:34:19
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, awesome. So how did you figure out? Is it just how do you figure out like a channel like YouTube and Vimeo is working for you? I mean, for me, I'm all about trial and error. I'm always trying new things. And I love gorilla tactics, like, yeah, the standard marketing, like advertising, put an ad here, because I worked in that arena. I know it's harder to break through. So I'm always looking for different ways to sort of connect with people and be relevant.
00:34:48
Speaker
So yeah, that was not like a pre-plan, like I'm going to do this and it's going to be awesome.
International Reach and Storytelling
00:34:53
Speaker
It was like, I tried it and I was like, oh my God, like we have one video with like.
00:34:59
Speaker
50,000 like ablation couple. It was one of my earlier weddings, which I feel like the work is not my super, super most amazing. But I'm like, what about this is connecting and you sort of go and you look at the comments and you see where is it being reposted and why and what is it about this that's making people get excited? And then you use that knowledge to sort of, okay, what if I tried this channel? What if I like,
00:35:25
Speaker
Does this work? It's a trial and error thing. That makes sense. But always learning. Yeah, I'm really digging into just the research and the reflection that goes into each of these decisions. Because I think it's easy to throw spaghetti against the wall and then kind of say, oh, well, I think that works. I'm going to do more of it. And it really having not worked. So I do appreciate all the research and reflection that goes into some of the decisions that you've made.
00:35:47
Speaker
As far as the podcast goes, I want to circle back to the podcast here as we start to wrap up. Do you feel like your podcast is a nice way to continue almost engaging with the couples that you serve even beyond their wedding days? Oh my gosh. Okay. So I started the podcast kind of like
00:36:08
Speaker
I just want to share stories and see where this goes. I think it'll be fun. As you know, launching a podcast is a lot of work. But what I've learned, it's been so incredible. I actually have interviews with people around the world.
00:36:22
Speaker
People like, I think we had a lady in Pakistan email and just say, Oh my God, this is why this helped me. And as I'm thinking through this, I'm first of all, listening to the language, what are they resonating with and why, and how can I make it relevant to my client? If that makes sense. Like why did they like the story?
00:36:40
Speaker
But also, I'm hoping it's still new, and I think it's more of a long-term strategy. But those people probably know other multicultural couples who are in different stages of the relationship. So maybe that might translate over into better connecting with my clients, but even just attracting more of the client that I love working with.
00:37:00
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's fascinating too. I mean, it serves as content for so many purposes. Not only does it connect with the people that you've served in a way to continue to speak into their lives around stuff that they're probably still figuring out themselves. But like you said, now if they have friends that get married or perhaps your podcast is now top of mind for a couple that is planning on getting married, maybe it acts as not only kind of bottom of the funnel, post funnel, client,
00:37:28
Speaker
Client experience enhancer almost, but sort of a top of funnel driving more inquiries tool as well. Yeah. Because people want to feel like, I think sometimes it's helped booked clients because it's made them feel like, oh my God, there's somebody else like me, like one girl long distance, interracial, very, very different cultures. And I was like, oh, I interviewed someone like that. Check out this interview. This might help you as you're going through what you're going through right now.
00:37:58
Speaker
I'd like to think that helps feel the deal. Yeah, no, absolutely. What's interesting too is we just had on the same day, so the episodes will be released at different times and I'm not sure, I can't remember what order, but I just had Natalie Frank on talking about growing a platform and one of the things that we were talking about was kind of this why behind your business.
00:38:18
Speaker
And kind of this intersection or the juxtaposition of your why with the things that, with the life that you live. And I love how all of that weaves together for you. I think it's true. I think couples that go to your website and get to know you understand that it's more than you just like taking pictures of people like them.
00:38:41
Speaker
Right? You know, not you share a you share a similar background to a certain extent, but then also you care about, you know, the issues that they care about, even beyond the pictures themselves. And I think that goes such a long way. Yep, you nailed it. Yeah. Yeah. My story, why I do what I do, why I get so excited.
00:39:02
Speaker
when I interact and talk to multicultural couples is because, like, I'm like, I get it. I get what it's like to balance these different worlds and to to figure out, OK, my parents want this tradition, but we're cool and modern and hip. And how do we marry those together? And I get it and I love it. And yeah.
00:39:21
Speaker
Yeah, so well, you know, I think that just for those of you who have listened to some of our past episodes, you know, or it's Natalie's in particular, and now we're listening to this one, I think you're just such a great example of some of those principles that we talked about in that episode, which is about growing a platform, you know, kind of come to life, you know, so I'm so glad that I had the opportunity to sit down and talk with you about this. Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much. I've loved this.
00:39:43
Speaker
So, a few things. I know you have a couple sponsors that make this kind of stuff possible for you just speaking from a platform. So, I know you want to give a shout out to them. And then also, we absolutely want to know where can people follow along, learn a little bit more about your business and listen to your podcast. Yeah. So, Petronella photography is where you find me. I'm
00:40:07
Speaker
I think one of the only, yeah, only one right now just got that trademarked, whoo! Petronal Photography on Instagram, Facebook, all the, you know, common social media platforms. The podcast is I Am Multicultural Podcast. And next year, I have a couple speaking engagements coming up, which I'm super excited about, regardless of where you are, come to one of these.
00:40:28
Speaker
Maybe not to see me, but because there's so many amazing other people there who are going to be speaking. But in New York, the B&H Depth of Field Conference, I'm speaking at that. Drumroll, I was speaking at WPPI. Oh my God! Okay. Yes. I'll be speaking at Inspire Photo Retreats, which was another conference, which
00:40:51
Speaker
I started at very early in my business and it's just been so helpful, a nice intimate environment to really learn and connect with other people. I'm speaking at Tamiah Colvin's The Photo Cookout in New Orleans. Yeah, her good things. I think it's going to be fun, good times, and she's amazing in terms of what she's doing for the industry. Yeah, so anyway, yeah. If you feel like, where is all of that? Go to Instagram, click on the link. There's a link on there.
00:41:19
Speaker
There's a couple of discounts. WPPI has like a 15% go ahead and click in there and a free expo pass. So yeah, I want to meet you. Free expo pass. Yeah. Well, thank you again for just spending your time, especially here. We're recording this right before the holidays. So I know it's a busy time of year. I'm excited for people to be able to sit down and listen to this episode. So thanks again for your time.
00:41:44
Speaker
Oh my gosh, thank you so much for allowing me to have this time to share my story and to help others. Yeah, it was a very fun, exciting conversation. Good, I'm glad to hear it. Thanks for tuning in to the Brands That Book Show. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing and leaving a review in iTunes. For show notes and other resources, head on over to davianchrista.com.
00:42:20
Speaker
you