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Designing the right systems and processes to support your DE&I Program w/ Misty Gaither
42 Plays4 years ago
This week, for our 4th installment of "The 3D Podcast" I sat down with Misty Gaither, Director Global Diversity, Inclusion & Belonging Business Partners at Indeed.com, where we discussed how to "Design the Right Systems and Processes to Support your DE&I Program." This was a great episode packed with tons of gems and comedic overlays (by yours truly). So get you some tea and a good seat as you listen to the next RockStar in the DE&I space, Misty Gaither!
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Transcript
Introduction to the 3D Podcast and Its Mission
00:00:10
Speaker
Hey, I'm Cedric Chambers, and I would like to welcome you to another episode of the 3D Podcast, a masterclass where we share with you everything you need to know about how to transform diversity and inclusion in your organization as well as in your community. We're on a mission to amplify the voices of leaders that are making an impact in the world today so that we can have a better tomorrow.
00:00:34
Speaker
Our goal every episode is to keep it simple, honest, and transparent with you by uncovering the truths in diversity and inclusion with the hope of creating behavioral change all while presenting it from a unique perspective. So look, if you're ready, get your notepad out, pour you a drink, and let's dive deep as we discuss the dimensions of diversity.
00:01:04
Speaker
Welcome to the show, everyone. Look, I am excited, excited to speak to our guests today.
Introducing Misty Gaethan and Her Background
00:01:09
Speaker
So today we have Misty Gaethan. Misty is the director of Global Diversity, Inclusion, and Belonging at Indeed, where she directly supports the senior technical leaders with a focus on removing bias and barriers from system and processes, advising on how to build more inclusive products, and building a culture of inclusion and belonging.
00:01:28
Speaker
In addition to our experience at Indeed, Missy has also worked with the Atria Group, JPMorgan Chase, Code2040, and Twilio. Missy is a proud alumna of Florida A&M University School of Business and Industry, where she earned her degree in business administration with a marketing concentration. She is an active, y'all look, let me say this again, she is an active member of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority Incorporated.
Founding HBCU No Regrets and Diversity Journey
00:01:56
Speaker
and the founder of HBCU No Regrets, a consultancy focused on educating tech companies about the historical significance and importance of including HBCUs in their talent acquisition strategies. Without further ado, I am excited, excited to present to you Misty, Misty, Misty Gaethan. How are you doing today, Misty? I am doing really good today. Thank you. How are you? Oh, I'm blessed and highly favored.
00:02:25
Speaker
everything is going on. I'm blessed. Trust me. Look, I'm excited to get into the conversation today. And I gave a little bit of a background, but I would love for you to share a little bit more about your background.
00:02:37
Speaker
how you got into diversity inclusion and belonging, why you chose AKA over DST. I'm just going to put that out there and all that good stuff. So look, tell us a little bit more about you and who you are and don't forget the AKA over DST. You really want to focus on that today. As I look down, I am wearing my, the first black sorority sweatshirt for very good reason. Um,
00:03:02
Speaker
So actually, yeah, like you said, I am, I reside in the Bay Area. I'm in Oakland, California, but I am originally from Los Angeles, Compton, California to be exact. I spent all of my childhood there and I decided to go to Florida A&M University after I had met the president at the time, Dr. Frederick Humphries, and I was really excited about their business program.
00:03:28
Speaker
And so immediately after graduating, I spent time at Altria, which is a consumer packaged goods company before I went to JPMorgan Chase. Both of those companies are really known for being heavily male dominated. And during my experiences there, I was often, you know, the only person in the room, the face of the race, but it created opportunities for visibility. And I was always involved in activities and ERGs.
00:03:53
Speaker
and tapped by a lot of peers for guidance on navigating a lot of issues they were experiencing, similar to myself, experiencing things that I didn't really have the vocabulary for, didn't know how to articulate, but knew something was a little bit off. And so that led me to my role in diversity, inclusion, and belonging. Because you want an answer to this question, I mean, obviously,
00:04:19
Speaker
Really and truly, I had exposure to some phenomenal women in my childhood and early adulthood that were members of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority Incorporated. I think it goes without saying that for the purposes of this conversation and the timing of it all, I really want to focus on the collective efforts of both Alpha Kappa Alpha and Delta Sigma Theta Sorority Incorporated for this major accomplishment with getting Kamala Harris.
00:04:46
Speaker
and Joe Biden into the White House. So I'll leave that there. I have amazing friends who are Deltans, and when I tell them about this podcast, they will listen. So I'm just, they're going to end that conversation.
00:05:01
Speaker
And so, look, let's get into it for today. So, you know, as we're going through and talking about diversity and inclusion, you know, first I want to lay the groundwork on the discussion. And so there are many names that come up and use as it relates to diversity and inclusion, right? Some know what they mean, some don't, right? But, you know, I feel therefore, indeed, you have a good grasp on this. So what I'd like you to do is just take a few minutes and explain from a groundwork perspective, what is diversity, inclusion, and belonging?
Defining Diversity, Inclusion, and Belonging at Indeed
00:05:28
Speaker
And can you explain the difference between the three?
00:05:32
Speaker
Sure, so as we continue to see an increase in positions, particularly in this function, we see diversity, we see equity, we see inclusion, we see belonging. So at the company where I am, we define diversity as reflecting the global community where we operate.
00:05:51
Speaker
And that means like different work styles, different life experiences, different ethnic backgrounds, gender, et cetera. Then when you look at inclusion, it's like the actions and behaviors that create that culture, right? Where employees can really feel valued and trusted, like they can really contribute fully and thrive in the organization. And then the belonging piece is that sense of community, which is the outcome of diversity and psychological safety. And so psychological safety comes when you feel included and you can really
00:06:20
Speaker
I don't want to say be your full self because nobody is ready for anybody's full self in the workplace. But you can really be, you can be authentic and you don't have any fear about raising concerns and sharing unique perspectives.
00:06:34
Speaker
And so one of a popular quote by a leader at Netflix is, diversity is being invited to the party. Inclusion is being asked to dance. Anyone who is a practitioner has probably heard that repeatedly. I worked for LaFawn Davis, who's been doing this work for about 15 years across a couple of different tech companies. So she's added that, indeed, belonging is knowing all of the songs. It's like when your jam comes on.
00:07:00
Speaker
So if you can picture, you know, being at that party, you can kind of see the difference between diversity, including. Man, I love that answer, knowing the words to the song.
00:07:12
Speaker
Let me tell you something. I spent about three years in Wisconsin. There were a lot of events that I went to where I did not know the words to the song. And I was in those type of events for hours, hours. I'm just thinking to myself, you could throw a little Drake in because that's kind of socially acceptable everywhere. Like, nope, nope, it was Jason Aldean.
00:07:33
Speaker
It was something else that wasn't what I knew. So I love that answer. I love that answer. So as you're going through and you're putting this together, right? And this is where, you know, as we dig into this conversation and we look at all three, all three, I know work to bring together when we think about systems and processes. And so today, as we specifically focus down in this area and go down this path, I want to focus on how do we as practitioners set up the right systems and processes to make sure that our diversity and inclusion programs are successful?
00:08:03
Speaker
And so as we dive into this discussion, can you walk us through what your team is doing today to tackle DNI and what are you approaching and how are you approaching the work that has to get done?
Strategies and Responses to Diversity Challenges at Indeed
00:08:13
Speaker
First and foremost, I think it's important to understand the value and the importance of relationships when doing this work. My team is fairly new. Indeed has always had a diversity and inclusion team, but they haven't had the structure that has been put in place by my boss and by myself.
00:08:32
Speaker
And so it has been really important to help the company understand the difference between a diversity inclusion and belonging team and walking them through how IRGs are a component of the strategy, but not synonymous with that. And we've been doing that by building relationships with key leaders across the entire company, including our HR business partners, our talent partners, folks that are doing the learning and development.
00:08:58
Speaker
and really establishing ourselves as like key advisors and consultants to the business. And so what we're looking at, we're evaluating current systems and processes to determine if they were created with a lens for inclusion and belonging. And some of those systems and processes are, you know, what does it look like for the full life cycle of an employee? So like talent acquisition or talent attraction, whatever it's called at the respective company, the promotion process, the calibration conversations,
00:09:26
Speaker
performance discussions, any type of employee relations, all of those have an opportunity to have an overlay of inclusion and belonging. And so, you know, identifying leaders who can affect change and amplify the messages and apply it daily. And so as we all know, 2020 has been super unique and quite the time to be a practitioner in this space.
00:09:50
Speaker
So a lot of our work right now has been like crisis response to ensure that some of our most vulnerable populations still have the support they need at work. And so when we think about the beginning of the pandemic, we immediately kind of activated responses for our Asian population who were experiencing xenophobia, whether directly or adjacent to their community or family, et cetera.
00:10:16
Speaker
Then we kind of walked down everything and we have a Black Lives Matter movement. And I led the Crisis of Storm strategy for that specific movement. Then we looked at parents and caregivers who have been significantly impacted because we are working at home.
00:10:30
Speaker
And so those are some of the areas where we are focused on right now. So when you say crisis response, can you walk us through what does that look like as it relates to Black Lives Matter? For me personally, it looked like anticipating kind of what was going to happen as a result of a couple of incidents that were obviously broadcast globally. And so we started our crisis response strategy well before
00:10:55
Speaker
the George Floyd incident brought more, you know, like awareness and incited, you know, the response to the incident globally. So it was the weekend that Little Richard and Andre Harrell, we learned about their passing. And I think we were just learning about the incident with Ahmaud Arbery. And so I put together a document entitled, The Current State of the Black Experience,
00:11:22
Speaker
And essentially it was the purpose of it was to serve as a catalyst to normalize conversations about race and race relations and to create a space in our environment where people can learn and grow and support one another and to help people understand how people can mourn the loss of someone that they've never met and how because this is like a regular occurrence, particularly in the black community, that it does have an impact on a person's ability to engage
00:11:47
Speaker
produced quality work and contribute consistently. So I pulled down, you know, some images from Instagram, some images from LinkedIn. And I'm sure we've all seen some of the posts that said, you know, like you may have had a good weekend and now we're business as usual on Monday. But meanwhile, I'm trying to put on a straight face and act like I'm not affected. And I don't think people understand the weight of those experiences. And so it was important in that moment, one,
00:12:15
Speaker
that this burden of bringing this to the attention of the company wasn't placed on our black employee resource group. And then also my boss, who is amazing, but also is a black woman who has a black son that she didn't feel the responsibility either while she was trying to process it. And so, you know, what we did, we leveraged some resources. We use catalysts. We also use crescendo. We talked about,
00:12:40
Speaker
you know, the emotional tax, the link between experiences of racism and stress and anxiety, how we all experience differences with our exposure to trauma, the mental health aspect for the black and African-American community, and then, you know, becoming trustworthy white allies and just pull together these things for people to read. And so that document quickly turned into a multi-page deck that we used in partnership with our internal comms team.
00:13:08
Speaker
our DIMB global team, our HR partners to really think through ways we can continue to support every community that is experiencing something that is challenging to kind of navigate during the pandemic and especially for our black employees. Got it. And how was it received? So I've worked at quite a few companies where initially or historically I would have been timid and anyone who's listening who knows me knows that I really don't hold back and I say the hard things.
00:13:37
Speaker
But stuff like this, I typically would have been timid, but I felt incredibly supported at our highest level of leadership. Like I work for an amazing company with amazing CEO and we didn't get any pushback. And throughout the pandemic, what I'm really proud about when I think about the company and our leadership is how we have been very much employee centric and putting the employee first throughout the pandemic. And this was treated no differently.
00:14:04
Speaker
And now what we see throughout, even through the end of the year, we can anticipate messages that constantly kind of is weaving this information into like our HR communication from our SVP of HR or in our regular communication or Q&A sessions with our CEO and COO. There's always this thread of awareness about what's happening within this particular community and others. And so,
00:14:32
Speaker
it's actually turned into more of a strategy that we referenced as incidents come up. And so now it won't be a crisis response anymore. We'll just have a plan that we can immediately apply because we know other things will happen. That's what I was going to ask next about the kind of what's next, but that's great to hear that it will become a, it's not a crisis response, right? This is the way we work and the way we do, you know, things moving forward. So that's great to know. Yeah, I guess like in tech, we like to say we have a strategic vision,
00:15:01
Speaker
And now we've operationalized it and we truly are normalizing opening up, like having these difficult challenges, doing a lot of things that we call brain spaces where people can come process and have conversations to learn more, to ask questions in a safe environment and making sure people connected, not just to like interpersonal relationships that work, but we try and tie everything to what we do in terms of like our mission at the company.
00:15:28
Speaker
and really thinking beyond just like the demographic piece around like DIMB or diversity inclusion and belonging and just having more of a global approach, more comprehensive approach to any of the work that we do.
Reflections on 2020 and the Shift in D&I Efforts
00:15:43
Speaker
Yeah. And the fact that it came from such a natural place, I know that gives others the confidence to speak their truth and to bring up similar types of thoughts and bring examples forward with any organization as well. Absolutely. So much has been born out of this and 2020 has been challenging, but I think we would do ourselves a disservice if we didn't talk about some of the positive things. And so I know
00:16:08
Speaker
in terms of like the spaces and the conversations that have been opened up, like our black inclusion group, they have a podcast. And I think all of our inclusion resource groups now have a podcast that invites people into the discussion. And we even had something that's pretty unique and created like an ally ship role so that the marginalized community is not solely responsible for educating folks who want to learn and trying to mitigate, you know, a lot of questions that they are receiving and people wanting to help.
00:16:36
Speaker
but also people who are still early and learning like you can't center yourself or just deem yourself an ally. Like you really have to be action oriented. And so it has been interesting and rewarding to see the growth that we've made in such a challenging year. No, I agree. I agree. And is the black inclusion podcast, is that on the intern or is that external as well?
00:16:58
Speaker
You know, I have to double check that. We do have some things that we share externally. So if anybody is following us on Instagram, our inside indeed handle gives you a peek into what we do related to some of these issues. So if there's a post about it, sometimes there will be a link to it and you can find the podcast there. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. We'll definitely share that in the notes. Uh, if it is out there, I think that'd be something great to listen to.
00:17:23
Speaker
Perfect. I would agree. I can't, I gotta be honest. I haven't listened to all of the episodes. I definitely have caught one or two and it's conversations that you always want to have, but you think you can't. And so it is, it is very candid. I think you can learn a lot. Awesome. Awesome. True empowerment and inclusion. And this, this just reminds me of like, when, when you stay ready, you don't have to get ready just to be in that type of environment to where
00:17:52
Speaker
You're ready for whatever the situation is and you come at it from a...
00:17:57
Speaker
authentic way and you're really being intentional about how you're putting it out there. What are the different parts of it? I mean, I just love to see that in organizations because one, you don't see it a lot and two, from my view, just hearing it, it sounds as if it's a process and it's a structure that you can build upon, right? It's not just going out and making a statement and saying, you know, this is what we're going to do for the black community, but it's actually being
00:18:24
Speaker
intentional and authentic around what can you do and how can you actually show up to support your employees. So I love hearing that and just curious how was the response in the organization when you think about those not involved in the planning but for just a general employees throughout the organization were you able to gauge their response and did that compare to anything you may have heard from colleagues at different companies?
00:18:49
Speaker
So I don't really have a context from colleagues at different companies. I think the biggest message was overwhelmingly that a lot of companies were doing these things that were performative. And that was the very thing that we wanted to avoid. And so we wanted to be prepared for, OK, what's next? Our mission is to help people get jobs. And on my team, we say, we want to help all people get jobs. So this incident is happening. The world is literally on fire around us.
00:19:19
Speaker
So after we make this statement, how are we thinking about what we're changing every single day? The response from the company was overwhelmingly receptive. And it's because it goes back to having the relationships and really building that rapport with leaders that can drive the work forward. And so while I started the document, I wasn't the one to finish the document. And because we have been doing a lot of education, I had colleagues say, you know what, you are a Black woman doing this work. This is probably a lot for you.
00:19:49
Speaker
What can I do to help? How can I take some stuff off of your plate? And so that was from our internal comms team, our external comms and PR, our vice president or senior VP of human resources. It was a collective effort that I didn't feel like I was pushing something uphill, but really and truly I had people like by my side to make sure we got this off the ground. And of course, I'd be remiss if I didn't say
00:20:16
Speaker
you will always have people who just don't understand. And that's going to happen in every organization, right? And so that wasn't a time where we gave a lot of attention to anybody that may have race concerns, be it on blind or otherwise we just focused on the people who needed the most support. And in that moment, it was our black employee population. So I want to make sure that we don't gloss over that and we put some focus onto that. So you said that for those who don't get it,
00:20:46
Speaker
You're not, it's not necessarily that you're going to focus on them, not getting it, but putting the support to the individuals who really need it at that moment. I want to make sure that is that what I'm hearing? Yeah, that's, that's what you're hearing. I mean, in every company and it doesn't make a person a bad person. They are just at a different part on their journey.
00:21:06
Speaker
And they need a little bit more help understanding why we have to have a laser focus on what is underrepresented population at the time. So we thankfully, we didn't have a lot of people raising concerns. And to be honest, I don't know if we had any at all, but I just know the world that we live in and the tools and the platforms that we have to express ourselves, be it a post on LinkedIn or something on blind.
Addressing Anti-Blackness and Support for Black Communities
00:21:32
Speaker
We do monitor sentiment, but there was nothing that needed to be raised where we needed to move our focus away from the community that was hurting the most at that time. I love it. I love it. Look, in some cases, support, especially if you are a detractor from the process, is silence. Or it's, hey, I would just love it if we can focus in this area. But to be able to put that focus, I love it because I do see a lot to where
00:21:59
Speaker
When you go down a path of inclusion, it gets taken literally in every sense to where if one population does not get what's going on and do not understand, then the people who are in the position that you're in try to go out and make it make sense for everyone instead of focusing on a population that's impacted, that's going through this, that's really trying to navigate their way through the situation. And so to just hear that you all do that is amazing.
00:22:29
Speaker
Yeah, let me just add, you know, there were times when that question came up, well, why are we so focused on this population specifically? And I've had to address that. And people like to say, well, isn't that being exclusive if we're only focusing our efforts here? And it's an educational opportunity, right? You tell them, like, everyone can't be included at the same time all the time. It's prioritization.
00:22:57
Speaker
So again, like at the beginning of the pandemic, xenophobia was on the rise. That's where we focused. Then we had a series of events. So then we focused on the black employee population. Our parents and caregivers were expressing concerns about a quick adaption that they had to make to working at home with children and with people they provide care for. And then we focused there. And so I think people just need to understand that everyone will get their opportunity,
00:23:27
Speaker
The challenge I have with those questions is that you typically hear more of why are we focusing here when it's surrounding the black employee population. And I want to be, I want to be very clear that I'm not speaking on behalf of, indeed, when I make that statement, I'm speaking as an independent individual. And so my guidance to anyone that's also doing this work is if you focus on the black employee population or the black population, because there is so much anti-blackness,
00:23:55
Speaker
Everything else that you have to fix will be much easier to actually plan for because there's no other group that has the level of hate that the black population has. And I want to be very clear that is Misty speaking for Misty.
00:24:14
Speaker
I work at Indeed, but that is not a statement that's reflective of Indeed. I don't worry about it. I got you. They can come talk to me if they got a question. Look, that's... Look, come talk to me. We're going to get the D9. We're going to come have a conversation. I think that that is so many people don't think
00:24:33
Speaker
the way that you're thinking as it relates to this topic. I'm pretty sure that's from the experiences and just being in the industry, being a practitioner, but then also just having life experiences and seeing how this all comes together to be able to provide this introspective, right? To say that everyone can't be included all the time, that might be my line for the rest of 2020. Every time I look at somebody, I'm just like, everybody can't be included, buddy.
00:24:59
Speaker
So it just feels like that sense that we're working towards this place, but it's a time and a place for everything. So, you know, just kind of, you know, going down this path as you think about these different systems and processes and things that you're building relationships, being the key advisor to the organization.
00:25:17
Speaker
As you're designing the right systems and processes, explain to us why is this important when it comes to diversity and inclusion programs? Why is it important for organizations to focus on building these systems and processes early in their D&I journey? That's a pretty large question. I'll start backwards. We've seen that companies who have not focused early enough on diversity, inclusion, and belonging,
00:25:44
Speaker
the impact that it has on their attrition numbers or retention of underrepresented employees. It creates a risk for the business, right? When you have an homogenous group of individuals developing any type of product and you haven't been able to test it, you have no user experience from a diverse group, and it's a huge missed opportunity to maximize on innovation. And it's like you want to solve for the global population. And as the landscape changes,
00:26:14
Speaker
where minorities are actually going to be the majority of the population by the year 2040, companies actually can't afford not to focus on everyone. And so even when you think about the small business segment and who's actually driving that growth, it's not the majority population. And so that's why it's really important for it to be focused on really early.
00:26:39
Speaker
And then designing the right systems and processes, it literally looks like everything that an employee experiences from the time they even start looking at the website to determine if the company is a place for them to work or when they see your commercials on television. Like I get super excited right now when I see indeed advertisements because I know that that work has actually come through the diversity inclusion and belonging team, myself and someone who leads products specifically.
00:27:08
Speaker
And so that's when people start making decisions. People think that they don't have to focus on it until someone is actually in their organization. But even your talent acquisition strategies, you know, who are we sending to campuses to actually identify underrepresented talent? Are we over utilizing our ERGs when that happens? Like how are we hiring and having people who can
00:27:32
Speaker
you know, really meet or match the demographic where we're trying to attract from our calibration processes. As I mentioned earlier, performance management, product development, it's education of like the cross-functional teams that are involved in creating spaces for people to learn without being criticized or like shamed for not knowing. And so typically when you think about DIMD, it's like adjacent. It's an afterthought and
00:27:59
Speaker
the system that we're building is to really embed it into the business. And so it's like a dimension in your performance rubric, right? How is somebody demonstrating being inclusive? Like, what does your meetings look like? You know, who's being spoken over, mansplained to, or, you know, do people know how to identify microaggressions and are they taking them seriously? So it is, it's a big job. It's a lot of moving parts, but
00:28:25
Speaker
All the things that I just mentioned are some of the things that people can do to, um, like build the systems and, you know, look at processes at their companies. No. Um, and I mean, I love it. Look, just I'm over here just thinking through, you know, you're in this space and you're consulting. There's so many organizations that you see, and there's so many processes and approaches that you see, um, that are happening. And so just hear.
00:28:53
Speaker
thinking about the entire employee lifecycle, thinking about how you're engaging with the different products and how people see you at universities. These are the elements that really make for an impactful diversity, inclusion, and belonging strategy because you're seeing how it's entangled and entwined
00:29:13
Speaker
into everything that you all are doing, not just a pathway for diversity, but a pathway for everything else. And it's so built in those pathways in so many places. So I love just the way that it's all intertwining with the company and how you all are building that. And it takes me to the next question here. You mentioned relationships earlier and building those different relationships.
00:29:36
Speaker
Look, with the times that we're in, with the work that you all are doing, when it comes to progress in this area, how can you use those relationships from those individuals who may have privilege in whatever area? But how can you use those relationships with individuals who have privilege to move this mission forward as you continue down this path?
00:30:00
Speaker
relationships or like I call it social capital, like that's a primary component of my approach. And that's what helps me to be really effective. And I don't think I said this to start, but I'm not the traditional DNI practitioner. Like I was not an HR employee and moved over into diversity and inclusion. I have a sales and marketing background and a business development background.
00:30:24
Speaker
excuse me, business development. And so when I am working with anyone, like I focus on speaking the language, like whoever my client is and asking questions to understand more about them. And then also, you know, making it personal because sometimes we focus so heavily on what's happening in the tech sector that we forget there is life outside of tech while tech intersects with everything that we do. If you ask someone,
00:30:51
Speaker
or I've had a conversation and someone said to me, you know what, I see things through the eyes of my three-year-old daughter, right? And this might be a cisgendered white man. That shifts the conversation a little bit. And so it's also helping them understand the difference between like performative support and truly being an accomplice. Like I say, ally is a verb. Like you need to show me something, not just giving the preamble of I care so much, I'm so deeply committed, et cetera.
00:31:19
Speaker
And walking them through things that might seem rudimentary to us as practitioners, but they are monumental and shifting them into action. And so as I mentioned before, sometimes people don't realize how frequent they're interrupting one specific group of people. And a lot of times it's men interrupting women, and sometimes it's women interrupting women, or the mansplaining component, or asking someone an inappropriate question.
00:31:46
Speaker
The relationship piece is big because when you have a relationship and you want to have a tough conversation, it's coming from a sense of, let me help you get better. Not that this person doesn't like me. And then here, you know, specific example of the work is that there's a work stream. It's primarily comprised of like senior leaders. And I found out about the group shortly after joining the company. And I was like, huh, it's an inclusion work group. Let me join and see what they're doing.
00:32:14
Speaker
And the whole purpose was to create solutions for issues that were coming up in the business. Now they're not all specifically inclusion related. Some of them are like business process, et cetera. But nonetheless, they have enough tenure. They have a level of authority that when I want something done, I go to them and I tap into their relationships. It's like the degrees of separation become smaller and smaller.
00:32:41
Speaker
And so that's effectively how I use my relationships with people in positions of power who are privileged to move the mission forward. And I think it's important for us not to forget those who are gatekeepers sometimes. So if you're an organization and you have a chief of staff or an executive assistant, building relationships with those people is critical. And so that's also benefited me as well.
00:33:12
Speaker
And I'm actually this because I am completely with you, right? Especially when you think about the two things you just said, one is the gatekeeper piece, which that's true, right? In a lot of cases, it may not be you need to get in front of X, Y and Z. It may be you need to get in front of the admin because that's the person that's making these decisions, move and shake for them. But then also you said this thing around ally is a verb. And just to go into that for a second, you know, just thinking about ally as a verb.
00:33:42
Speaker
When this comes up in organizations, right? Let's say that we're in a meeting and let's say you have the mansplaining happening. And let's say that you have an individual with privilege or a part of the majority that sees it happening, knows it's happening, but then don't say anything about it happening. Don't go in and provide any assistance.
00:34:09
Speaker
Like when you, when you think about those situations that happen, and this is kind of thinking through, you know, the, we're talking to leaders here, but then we're also talking to leaders who are in different organizations to where this could happen to them because I've had it happen to me before. But my question is when that happens, like what is the response? How do you navigate through those discussions with those individuals? Because.
00:34:33
Speaker
that person can then come to you outside of the meeting and say, yeah, I saw when, you know, such and such said this, or, you know, are you all right? They come to you after the fact versus helping you in the situation, knowing that it's happening. So when that comes and it happens as an individual that's in that situation, I'm thinking from the practitioner being into being in an organization, being in a group to where they're pushing a message that they're trying to get everybody on the same page. This is happening to them. What are some like strategies or tactics that they can like do to,
00:35:03
Speaker
to work through, not only have the discussion with the individual that came to them afterwards, but could have helped them in the meeting, but when they find themselves in that position, how can they navigate and operate so that they're not going in too strong, but at the same time, they're getting their case across and making that point as it relates to what they're doing, what they're saying. Okay, so I have a couple of different thoughts on this, and I keep going back to the relationship piece.
00:35:33
Speaker
So if people know what your role is and what you are focused on in terms of helping the organization grow, then if you're actually in a meeting and you witness or you experience mansplaining or someone just being not acknowledged as frequently as someone else or confirmation of the same people's ideas over and over, in that moment, and I'll say this, this role takes a lot of courage.
00:36:03
Speaker
And I will tell practitioners to remember that we are the experts in this field and not to be intimidated by anyone based on their position, their role, or what they do, because they're the experts at their field. And so a lot of times you'll see this with technical leaders. Let's just say engineers, right? Because they're so smart. They build these amazing tools that we all use. And it's easy for us to have like imposter syndrome and get intimidated.
00:36:30
Speaker
Or if you're dealing with somebody and just by, you know, title alone, there's a little intimidation. You have to move out of your own way, but respectfully help them understand what's happening. And so let's say I'm in a meeting and it's predominantly, let's just focus on gender, right? Predominantly men. And I noticed a woman is unable to actually be acknowledged to speak. Then in a meeting, I'll say,
00:36:59
Speaker
Hey, just one second, let's pause. So-and-so has been trying to say something, so I really want to hear what she has to say. And because I'm not a part of the team, but I'm there in a consultancy or advisory capacity, they will, nine times out of 10, will be okay with that. And so I've had that happen where someone has contributed an idea
00:37:24
Speaker
And instead of it being expounded upon and having some conversation, they've quickly moved on to something else. And in that moment, I said, so this is what I heard this person say. And so I believe that warned some discussion. So let's have a discussion about X before we move to Y. And so it lets them kind of reset. And then after, then you just either set up a quick call or you figure out a way to have a conversation with the person that was like the one that was
00:37:54
Speaker
I guess, causing the issue, if you will, and just let them know kind of what you were doing in that moment and walk them through kind of how that fits into the overall like DIMD strategy of, you know, building inclusive teams and processes, right? Like, hey, I don't know if you noticed, but the time that I interjected in the meeting, I did it because I saw this happening. So I'd love to see you start to do that when you noticed it happening on your team. Love it. Love it. Look, like I just want to say this real quick.
00:38:24
Speaker
That was off the cuff. That's how you know she's a practitioner and she knows what she's talking about. I'm just going to say that. And if anybody benefited from this particular last two and a half minutes, I need for you to cash app missed it because that was consulting for you. I'm just going to put that out there right now. We're going to give a cash app later.
00:38:44
Speaker
But I mean, everything that you're just saying is resonating. And to be able to provide that example, because many people deal with that, right? That imposter syndrome, many people deal with being in those situations. And sometimes I just want to make sure in that particular case that while we're talking about how practitioners can impact the organization, I didn't want to forget the practitioners themselves.
00:39:09
Speaker
And I thought that would be just a great example. And you provided there to help the practitioner when you think about their own personal development, how they go through that piece. And so, as we travel through the systems and processes, and we think about just the organization,
Product Development and Diverse User Considerations
00:39:24
Speaker
right? So you all build a lot of products, you build, and it's based from a tech perspective. And so when you're building these systems and processes, like how does
00:39:34
Speaker
building these systems and processes tied into building more inclusive products. So actually that's handled by someone that's over product inclusion. I'm just kidding. We look at it as two separate areas. I think a lot of companies tend to focus only on the people piece of diversity, inclusion, and belonging.
00:39:59
Speaker
And there are some more established companies that truly understand like product inclusion and product accessibility. So one of my colleagues, that is his sole focus on product accessibility because there are some compliance and regulations that companies have to adhere to to make sure their platforms are actually accessible to anyone. And so an example of accessibility is a person who has a hearing impairment.
00:40:25
Speaker
And so, or a vision impairment. So we need to make sure that our products can be accessed by everyone. So for us, it's back to the education piece. Because if you think about the number of people that exist around the world that requires some type of accommodation, if we're not building with them in mind, we're missing out on the significant piece of the population. And so once people have that lens and they can say, oh, okay. Then when you think about like efficiency,
00:40:55
Speaker
think about building a product only to have to go back and then add in another feature or write another line of code. And so we think about how do we get this right, like the first time. And so how do we really think through the innovation piece of this all and really make sure that we have a product that's going to resonate with everyone. So that's something that is a little bit outside of my purview products specifically, but it is something that we're focused on at Indeed. And I know a lot of other companies are focused on as well.
00:41:24
Speaker
No, that makes sense. That makes sense. I mean, it's so many how people interact with your tool. They interact within so many different ways. Right. And so just thinking about that accessibility and how you think about it in the beginning of the process, this goes back to this, this theme that we've been talking about just in the beginning, right? As you're going through and weaving in things like not having to go back
00:41:45
Speaker
And after you've already built, you know, the ninth wonder of the world and turn around and say, Oh yeah, we need to go fix his nose. So, you know, it's, it's Oh, I haven't had an example of that, right? So we are all working at home. The majority of us, right. And you know, that's privilege in and of itself, regardless of how you identify from a race or background perspective, the fact that we can work from home during the pandemic. But when you think about video conferencing capability and testing, so I am,
00:42:16
Speaker
You know, I'm black, Cedric is black. When we think about the different hues and the different shades of melanin, if you have a team that's building the tool, but they are not actually testing with the diverse group of people, what's going to happen when they launch that video platform? You know, is that video platform going to pick up everyone of whatever hue, or is it only going to recognize people who are white?
00:42:44
Speaker
which a lot of times are things that happen or even being right handed versus left handed, depending on what your product is, that actually might be a feature that you need to evaluate. And so as you're building things like, are you thinking about people like different users? Like is your user experience in research teams, are they thinking about that? A couple of things that we use every single day or often, if you think about like the automated
00:43:12
Speaker
the seats when you put your hands underneath, if you've ever struggled, when you put the back of your hands because they are brown, if you flip them over, they're white, you may have more success. And that's all like technology that's driving that. So what that says is, oh, this may not have been built with people of color in mind. And so that's another thing about product inclusion or diversity inclusion in belongings, like who's in the room?
00:43:40
Speaker
at the concept phase and as we're thinking through iterations of whatever product is going to be launched. Even our sinks of prejudice. What's going on? I'm trying to just get my hands clean. Look, I 100% agree with you. I think that I've always wondered if this was the case and I've done a little, I've done a little bit of research on it, but not a ton. But I've always felt kind of iffy about
00:44:07
Speaker
the face recognition and it having trouble recognizing my face. And then trying to understand when you build that platform, whose face are you testing that on? Or whose face is the face that you're actually looking at, the structure, the features? Because different populations, different groups have very different structural facial structures. They look differently. And so if you're not including everybody, that could be an issue. That's something that just
00:44:36
Speaker
that you made me think of as you was going through this process just around some of the technology issues that I've seen and I haven't gone deep into it from a rabbit hole perspective, but it makes you think on who's building the product, why is it that this isn't working and it doesn't seem to work a lot for me and this is the way it works for everybody.
00:45:01
Speaker
That could be me in the work that I do always looking at it from a certain view. But it's just something that's curious to me as we think about products and building products and how does that work when it comes to the people who are actually doing the building.
00:45:17
Speaker
Awesome. And so as we kind of get closer and closer to the end here, for practitioners going down this path, what are a few challenges that they should be aware of and what are two or three actions that they can take after listening to this episode to really make an impact in the organization when they're building out the right systems and processes?
Challenges in D&I and Mental Health Support
00:45:41
Speaker
So this is going to sound familiar. I know we've all heard the saying, it's a marathon, not a sprint. You are seriously training for a marathon if you choose to do this work or if you are currently doing the work. The exhaustion is real, both the mental and physical. So I would say have a plan in place for mental health and be prepared for the business to have their different love language.
00:46:09
Speaker
And this was advice that was gifted to me by a former CEO. Like when you are in a relationship, you know about the five love languages, but in business, it's the same analogy, right? So we do this work because we truly believe that it is important. It's the right thing to do. We want people to have equal access to opportunities, et cetera. Not everyone is going to be at that stage of their journey where they believe it's the right thing to do. But what most people think about
00:46:40
Speaker
is what's the business impact and how can I increase revenue, profitability, speed to market, et cetera. You have to be okay if that's where they want to focus and not to be offended if they don't necessarily agree that it's the right thing to do. Capitalism and altruism can coexist. That might be a little controversial for some,
00:47:07
Speaker
But we live in a very capitalist society. And so I will say, we talked a lot about relationships in the podcast. So after this, go back and evaluate your relationships and ask yourself, do you have them with the right people who can drive your goals and agenda forward? And they're willing to do the work with you. Think about how diversity, inclusion, and belonging, or DNI, whatever it's called, at your respective organizations, how does it connect to your company values?
00:47:35
Speaker
So for example, if a company has a value that is, you know, innovation, you know, that can't really happen with the homogenous group of people. So you want to try and find that correlation. And then lastly, because a lot of this work depends on the actions of other people, you have to think about a system to measure your impact. And you have to think about both the quantitative ways you can measure along with qualitative, because we talk a lot about feelings and that's not everybody's language either.
00:48:05
Speaker
And so this is a challenge that I'm still working through, but it's really hard to measure success when you have to get work done through others. So what I've done, I've created a spreadsheet. I have listed what's the activity, who's the audience, is it internal, external, the number of people reached, what is the purpose, and what are the expected outcomes of whatever that engagement looks like.
00:48:30
Speaker
So you can start to track your interactions and any shifts that you're starting to see the organization make. So you can feel successful as you're doing this work. It is largely rewarding. It is exhausting, but I cannot imagine doing anything else, having experienced being the sales leader, working in financial services, being in business development like this feels like the right place.
00:49:00
Speaker
Yeah, I would invite everybody to do those three things. Once again, people, the podcast is free, but this knowledge, I mean, if you had a cash app, Misty, once this conversation is over with, because look, this is, I mean, that was perfect. Look, thanks for providing that and laying it out. And I love that. That's five love languages. I got the book.
00:49:22
Speaker
on my bookcase right now. I believe that Chapman who wrote that. And it's a wonderful way that you laid that out. And so as we come closer here, this last piece here for me is one of my most favorite parts of the episode. One, because I am a big believer in
00:49:45
Speaker
speaking things into existence, but then also being intentional about the actions that you take. And so to cap off this discussion, um, I want to know what is Misty's leadership legacy statement.
Leadership Legacy and Influential Quotes
00:50:01
Speaker
And what this statement is, is that if you think about, you know, when you're done with your career and you're sitting back relaxing in retirement and you're looking back when your life and everything that you've done,
00:50:12
Speaker
What is it that people will say about you from the interactions that you had with them? And this thought process that I have is that no matter if you've met someone one time or you've met someone 10 times, they have a perception of who you are. And in order to leave that legacy, no matter if you met them one time or 10 times, they should all have the same thing to say about you.
00:50:37
Speaker
And so I want to know, and typically this is something that's very short, 25 words or less, but I want to know what is your leadership legacy statement and how do you want people to remember you when you come up in conversations and when people speak about you?
00:50:53
Speaker
I'm going to caveat this by saying this is the first time I've actually drafted what my legacy statement is going to be. So we're going to call this the first iteration of it. Really an exclusive here, everybody. So what I know people say already and what I definitely agree with is that I'm the person to go to when you want the truth that I always operate with integrity. And I am the person who will find a way to get a yes.
00:51:21
Speaker
definitely a person who understands the importance of relationship capital. I am going to also share two quotes that are super important to me. And because we're on this HBCU kit, I have to shout out FAMU. So the first that I learned when I got to that campus is never take a no from a person who isn't in a position to give you a yes. And this- Hold on, say that again, say that again. Never take a no.
00:51:51
Speaker
from a person who isn't in a position to give you a yes. Now be careful, be careful with this, but be careful. That doesn't mean you railroad your way through some decisions that are being made. You navigate it gracefully, but just be thoughtful around who you are engaging to actually drive anything forward. And then the last one for any fam USBI that might tune into this podcast is from our late Dean of the Business School.
00:52:20
Speaker
And it is no excuse is acceptable. No amount of effort is adequate until proven effective. And so that is what guides me when I do this work and any work that I've ever done. So you guys got a bonus there. Man, that is that is powerful, right? I mean,
00:52:43
Speaker
With so many words of wisdom here, you know, once again, everybody, look, the podcast is free, but there's knowledge.
00:52:53
Speaker
This is something that, you know, I'm thankful that Missy have taken the time out to actually come and share it. Look, I know that folks listening are thankful and just to end off on that, I think is amazing. So look, look, this has been an amazing conversation. Uh, before we go, Missy, do you have any shout outs or any parting words? Where can people find you if they would like to dig deeper into these thoughts on this topic? Go. So you can find me on LinkedIn, Misty Gaither.
00:53:22
Speaker
I am also on Instagram. I have two handles. I have HBCU, no regrets. And then I also have Misty's Mix. So it's M-I-S-T-Y-S-M-I-X. And I would just like to shout out all the practitioners that are doing this work. Stay the course. Take time that you need to breathe.
00:53:46
Speaker
And really and truly, I want to give a super special shout out to my team that has been holding me down over at Indeed and to my wonderful, wonderful leader, LaVon Davis, who many, many people know if they are in this space. And that is it for me. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. No, look, no problem. Look, I got so many quotes and Twitter. I'm a little nervous. I'm a little nervous about you. I need to listen to this.
00:54:15
Speaker
I know, right? Look, this, this has been a great conversation. And look, that does it for us. Look, thanks to everyone for joining us on another episode of the 3d podcast. This has been Cedric and you've been listening to Misty, director of global diversity and inclusion and belonging for MD and we out.
00:54:37
Speaker
awesome well that does it for us thank you for joining us on another episode of the 3d podcast if you would like to connect on social media follow me on instagram twitter or facebook at cedric and powers and if you have any questions you'd like me to read or answer on the show or just want to know more about my thoughts around diversity and inclusion entrepreneurship or just overall business you can text yes i said text
00:55:02
Speaker
at 770-285-0404. You'll receive content straight to your phone on a regular basis, and you can message back and forth. Not a bot or an assistant. All responses come directly from you. But look, this has been a great episode. Until next week, this has been Cedric Chambers, and you have been listening to the 3D Podcast. We out.