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Bob Servant Independent: Fiction, By-Elections, and the Art of the Accidental Candidate
17 Plays7 days ago
John Ault speaks with Neil Forsyth, the writer behind the critically acclaimed BBC Scotland series Bob Servant Independent, about the creation of one of television's most memorable fictional candidates. The conversation traces Bob Servant's origins — from a Dundee cheeseburger van owner replying to spam emails to the self-appointed saviour of Broughty Ferry's local by-election — and explores what makes him such a sharply observed portrait of a certain kind of political hopeful. From the relentless self-belief and legacy-hunger that drives Bob into the race, to the structural appeal of election campaigns as a writer's device, and from Brian Cox's unlikely comic turn to the real-life Dundonian publican who ran on a roadkill platform, this episode examines why fictional elections so often reveal the truest things about the real ones — and why Democracy Volunteers considers Bob Servant Independent among the worst portrayals of elections ever made.
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Transcript
Introduction to Bob Servant and Guest
00:00:08
Speaker
Welcome and thanks for coming to the Observations podcast. Obviously Bob Servant is an individual ah candidate who stands for election in the Broughty Ferry by-election.
00:00:21
Speaker
Let's start by how you dreamt up Bob Servant and what your so rationale for this person standing for election was. Tell us all about Bob Servant and why you came up with him.
Bob Servant's Origins and Character
00:00:30
Speaker
Well, Bob's Servant was a comic creation that I first came up with when I just started replying to spam emails.
00:00:38
Speaker
This was in the days where spam emails were individuals, very much individuals abroad, who were sending these emails, trying to get people's ah information and trying and get them involved in various kind of scams.
00:00:51
Speaker
And I just started replying to them. I remember I got a spam email that was entitled, Delete This At Your Peril. And I thought that was such a funny, kind of grandiose title that I thought I'd respond. So I basically responded to spammers pretending to be this guy, Bob Servant. I had a very thin idea of who he was to begin with. I said that he was a Dundee cheeseburger van owner who'd won a computer in the bowling club raffle. So he didn't really understand what spam was, which made him attractive to these scammers, obviously.
00:01:18
Speaker
And then i just kind fleshed the character out through these email exchanges.
From Emails to Media Adaptations
00:01:24
Speaker
So I'd written a couple of books of these email exchanges that came out, and then we adapted it for BBC Radio Scotland, but that was very much an adaptation of the email exchanges.
00:01:35
Speaker
And then when we started to look at it, trying to get it on television, I needed a new a new premise. And I kind of hit upon the idea that you should run in ah in a local by-election.
00:01:47
Speaker
Now, obviously, Broughty Ferry is is less of a rather posh suburb of Dundee. um Why Broughty Ferry? Well, I grew up in Broughty Ferry, so that was the biggest attraction to me. And it's got mixed areas, Broughty Ferry, as a constituency. It's got a lovely bit down by the river, but, you know, it is a very nice spot, without doubt.
00:02:11
Speaker
And... There's something about it that he was a former fishing village that kind of got subsumed into Dundee over the years, but it still feels like its own little area. ah And obviously knowing it inside out where I'm from, where my mum and dad still live.
Setting the Stage: Broughty Ferry
00:02:27
Speaker
And I remember Brian actually, when I said he's, you know, Broughty Ferry, Brian always said that perfect, perfect place for a Bob Served Broughty Ferry, because it's a place where Dundonians, you know, there there's a great Dundee band called The View,
00:02:41
Speaker
And they've got a song called Superstar Tradesman. And it's all about um the advice that they were being given by kind of uncles and things when they were younger. And the lyric is, get a trade son, get a house in the ferry.
00:02:55
Speaker
And that's, the you know, that's sort seen as aspirational. So I think Bob is a ah relentlessly aspirational man. Broughty Ferry is a good place for him to live. And then I think for the...
00:03:06
Speaker
yeah, for the by-election, you just want somewhere that feels very much its own little world. And I think visually being that sort of old fishing village around the harbour gives you that, gives you that feel.
00:03:17
Speaker
Well, yeah, it's instantly identifiable, isn't it, as the the castle by the, by the shore. Um, let's start a bit, talk about Bob. Um, he's obviously not someone who lives entirely within the law.
00:03:30
Speaker
His, uh, extension on his house, um, He obviously didn't know much about local politics to have managed to achieve that without planning permission. um What made it, was this his attempt to try and undermine local council rules that he thought would stand for election?
The Unconventional Campaign
00:03:46
Speaker
Well, I think he, yeah, certainly someone who is ah is a proud history of bending or ignoring rules, or he'd probably call it ripping up the rule book, you know, and and starting again. but he was sort of, I think that what attracted me with the by-election Bob is that he's someone who's got a relentless self-belief um and it's very much predicated on his respect levels within Broughty Ferry. He's got no great interest in the world beyond
00:04:17
Speaker
Brozzy Ferry in Dundee, he talks disparagingly about Fife, but that's only because he can see Fife from his house. I think, so it's that um someone who feels that it's very, very important that they're seen as a significant mover within that small environment. So if something then lands on top of that small environment, in this case, a by-election that's going to bring external attention, then he very much feels that he should be at the heart of it. And I think It's probably that, again, not uncommon aspect of but maybe particularly by-elections because they get this heightened attention of people thinking it was a great idea they should run before they work out if they've actually got any reason to run.
00:05:04
Speaker
Yeah, i mean by-elections, obviously, you know, from our perspective, we we look at elections and we've been to several by-elections over the years. um And Broughty Ferry's by-elections, is obviously, I mean, you're suggesting they're incredibly introspective.
00:05:19
Speaker
um So let's start off with his perception that this is something presumably he thinks he can win. What makes him think he's in with a chance?
Bob's Grandiose Self-Perception
00:05:28
Speaker
Well, I mean, it has to be about character. can't, you know, the premise shouldn't inform the character, the character should be kind of inform the premise. So so Bob Sermon, I'd like to think is was a fairly worked out character.
00:05:42
Speaker
And he is someone who, absolutely thinks that anything's possible for him. He thinks that he has made enormous achievements within his life.
00:05:53
Speaker
and You know, he talks about having a window cleaning round that you could see from space before he moved into the cheeseburger van business. And then he talks about the cheeseburger van business. He built up and what he calls an armada of vans.
00:06:08
Speaker
of vans And so he's got this um heightened sense of of achievement and self-importance, but equally very much with one eye on his legacy.
00:06:20
Speaker
So I think you you create a character like that and then the premise comes along and then you can immediately understand why the character is going to fit into that premise. So it's not that the by-election changes Bob, it's more about the by-election to Bob feels like the perfect legacy, the perfect peak of his achievement and something that he's been... It's his Everest.
00:06:40
Speaker
Yes, exactly. His Everest. And it kind of, in some ways, it's his duty to run, I think, is what how how he would see it. So obviously, ah towards the start of the the episodes of Bob Servant, the i I don't know if you actually ever call them by their party names, but the chap comes up from London on the plane to Dundee Airport with the blue rosette on. and Is that supposed to automatically make the audience like Bob Moore? Because he's got this man from London coming up to stand his by-election?
00:07:12
Speaker
Well, I suppose it's always about trying to upend these things and try and make things as nuanced as he can, even with a very comedically driven show. And I think that great character, played brilliantly by Rufus Jones and Pollyanna McIntosh as his wife,
00:07:30
Speaker
and Again, i think ultimately he's a quite sympathetic character. and ah you know he's kind of trying to i think watch try He's trying just tried to understand Bob, but he's just increasingly bewildered by him.
00:07:45
Speaker
But um it was also a very good casting, Rufus, because he's ah he's ah he's a like he's ultimately quite a likable presence. So i think and I think with the political stuff, it's so easy. I think it's very easy if you do anything around politics, comedically or dramatically, you as the writer have to try and be apathetic to to the causes. I mean, otherwise you end up with something that's very pious and you make some easy jokes. um So I think it's trying to find the kind of hypocrisy in from every angle, if you like, and the kind of humour and farcical sides from from every angle.
Political Comedy and Character Nuance
00:08:23
Speaker
so
00:08:24
Speaker
and Yeah, i mean, maybe we should have not given him ah a blue rosette to make that point, I suppose. But I can't remember how these things happened. It was a while ago. but i think i think um But Bob, I think it was very important that the character was an outsider, definitely, that kind of came into Broughty Ferry and threw their weight around.
00:08:47
Speaker
And obviously the campaign starts and he has his famous radio interview. where he announces he will pay people to not take their dogs into Dawson Park. And if they do, he'll... I'm not i'm not even going to attempt a Scottish accent, but he suggests he might ah deal with the dog, with a gun. um I'll allow you to impersonate her Mr Cox. and but Why do you think his policy platform comes from?
00:09:12
Speaker
am being ironic, by the way. His policy platform comes from me. Yeah, well, probably comes from me growing up in Broughty Ferry and walking our family dog in Dawson Park, to be honest. it was I mean, this ah it was an incredibly local show to me. And looking back now, I find it is is such an amazing memory. I can't quite believe that my first show I made was set within hundreds of metres of my childhood home. you know And i think... So that's on the personal level. But then with Bob, it's just...
00:09:42
Speaker
That's his world, you know, that is his world. is is i They say that all politics is local, and but he's sort of a kind of um stream of that spectrum, suppose. But for that, I think it's very quite endearing, these characters, and i often sitcom characters, and will have very small worlds and very small spheres of influence.
00:10:06
Speaker
because that's where you get that heightened self-importance, which so many sitcom characters have. you know It's very important that for cat you know often for comedic characters to be funny, they have to take themselves very seriously. And I think often a way to do that is give them this small network of power and to and kind of inflate it and inflate it until it becomes suitably ridiculous.
00:10:28
Speaker
And obviously, he does several of media interviews, one of which seems to involve a plate of sausages for his ah for the media to come and, um you know, come to see him at his house. and What do you think the media make of Bob?
Media's Role and Bob's Missteps
00:10:42
Speaker
And why do you feel they feel the need to cover him in the election?
00:10:46
Speaker
Well, I think i think it's um it's a sort of tacit agreement, I think, often with these characters, these sort of outlandish characters, Lord Such, which we touched on when we talked to earlier, you know, they they want media attention.
00:10:59
Speaker
the media know what they're going to get out of it which is a sort of colorful a bit of color on the side if you like from what they would deem the more serious matters um and then for bob it's that um he greatly enjoys the media attention but it kind of comes back to bite him you know he does a television interview where it's crudely edited to make it appear that he's says he wants to be Annie Lennox, and that becomes a kind of real nadir of his campaign.
00:11:31
Speaker
So it's, um but also I think with with the the, it's the idea of how the other locals react to him running, and it's, you know, the kind of, he thinks there's going to be this outburst of of populist pride in his campaign, and actually he's sort of slightly mocked for it.
00:11:54
Speaker
which again, I think makes him a bit more endearing as a character, of the fact that he's he's kind of is' out there on his own. He's out there with Frank, basically. as and And it's a bit like when Bonnie Prince Charlie drove south for London and thought that he'd be raising an army in every English county as he went, and he was actually losing men. if It always feels a bit like that. He's on a kind of campaign bob.
00:12:20
Speaker
And he's massively overestimated the popular support that campaign will generate. I mean, obviously, there is not just an ad here, there's a zenith of his campaign, which is the um the debate night yeah um on the BBC. um Obviously, he's not doing awfully well in that debate when he comes up with his one policy, which is free wellies for the population of Barotti Ferry. and apart from the fact that obviously it's just stuck in his mind because um that's the one thing Frank can come up with.
00:12:55
Speaker
Why do you think that's the level to which he thinks he can engage with the local population as something that they'll all want? Again, it's it's always inward-looking, his outlook. So everything is inward-looking, the microcosm of what can he do to connect with people that he knows in Broughty Ferry that would immediately improve their lives.
00:13:17
Speaker
And I think... you know, it's a bit preposterous to take structure of that stuff too seriously with Bob Servant. But he, I suppose in some ways he's looking at traditional politicians offering traditional policies that sort of hover somewhere above the lives of most of the people listening.
00:13:35
Speaker
Either, you know, it's not going to necessarily affect their life and it's certainly not going to affect their life in the short term. and policies that are questionable whether they'd ever be enacted. Whereas if he can say that he's going to give everyone free wellies, that feels achievable.
00:13:50
Speaker
And it feels achievable in the short term. It feels like such a an unimpressive promise that would almost be ludicrous to break, if you like. So I suppose his argument would be, well, yes, you could buy the kind of possibility that some of these more fundamental seismic policies might one day be enacted or you could walk out here with a pair of wellies. And I think you some people might take the quick some people might
Debate Performance and Populism
00:14:17
Speaker
take the quickt win of the wellies.
00:14:20
Speaker
but But then he obviously also sort of um extends his policy base to a slightly more extravagant response when Frank calls on him to use the Braveheart card um and he becomes overly generous, including wanting to have the Falklands return to Scotland. and oversees us rather well in this debate.
00:14:43
Speaker
This is the high point and he he feels, I think, beetled swearing mania, I think is how he describes it. um Obviously that's the moment at which he presumably thinks he's going to get elected.
00:14:54
Speaker
Tell us about how he must have felt and how the audience responded to him. Well, it's ah I guess it was my take on kind of heightened populism, if you like, and I think it was, I think what's nice is the sense that people are reacting to the the spirit of it, if you if you like. They've sat through fairly traditional, pretty mind-numbing,
00:15:23
Speaker
political debate, and then you've got this character who's kind of infectious and saying things that in the moment sort of make sense, but probably on the audience journeys home, they would start to interrogate it and it would collapse in their hands.
00:15:39
Speaker
But um you're buying into a vibe, I suppose, there with Bob. And then yeah, I really enjoyed writing that. And I thought it was a great performance by Brian.
00:15:50
Speaker
And I remember when that came out, seeing people online on both sides of the kind of independence debate thinking that that speech was mocking the other side, which I think is exactly what you want to achieve as a writer um and kind of finding universal universal interest in it, I suppose, and feel that you're you're not taking an easy option. You're trying to find humour in both sides of a debate, I suppose, and which sounds particularly grandiose for that.
00:16:22
Speaker
bit of a dialogue but I suppose that's what you're trying to achieve. Do you think it's because it's more not what you say it's how you say it that matters? Oh definitely but that's often with great orators you know it's it's the are if you actually if you so you see the speech on paper it's not particularly impressive but it's it's delivery And I'm not saying Bob Servant is one of history's great orators, but I should make that clear. But I think that's the that is the theme of it. It's it's the spirit of it.
00:16:55
Speaker
And i in that particular scene, I just thought it was just very funny watching b Brian really kind of get into it. And and you know that that group of of essay essays or extras who are watching it ah You know, i remember them filming that day and people really it didn't because they ah they obviously don't have access to the script.
00:17:17
Speaker
So we just shot it and ran it right through. And I think they were given rough guidance to sort of clap or maybe show enthusiasm at the end. But that sort of, a you know, like an old TV program, they used to hold up the word clap.
00:17:31
Speaker
Yeah, a bit like that. But big bit again, we've been sort of, you know, not too stringent with it, if you like. And the reactions that we caught of them properly, sort sort of standing ovation, ah some of them are laughing, you know, some of them are sort of managing to put in a sort of dramatic performance of sorts by encouraging them. But it was all pretty genuine. I think it was a it was a really fun moment, that, because they didn't know what was coming.
00:17:58
Speaker
And obviously, um
00:18:03
Speaker
He wins that debate, and that's the moment at which he presumably thinks he's going to win. And Brian Cox obviously is an amazing talent and actor who delivers this a man. Before we go on to the results and how he eventually does, and that's the point at which Brian Cox sort essentially won the argument. that How did you feel when Brian Cox ah delivered this? Because obviously it's ah it is how you deliver it, not the content. the content ah How did you feel about him portraying Bob?
00:18:36
Speaker
well It was funny because when I did the, when I wrote the Bob Selling books, I used to go around, there was about a year or so where I was going around Scottish book festivals with them and almost maybe four or five occasions at least, someone would either put their hand up in the event or come and speak to me after in the book signing and say, um I'm from Dundee.
Brian Cox's Portrayal of Bob
00:19:01
Speaker
Bob's got to be based on Charlie Cox. Now, Charlie Cox was a Dundee news agent who had a news agency in inverted commas, which was in Monty Fieth, just outside Brody Ferry.
00:19:13
Speaker
And it was almost like a large shed, this news agent. It had been almost completely consumed by a hedge. The whole thing was very eccentric. And Charlie was very eccentric. And people told me these great stories about him. But anyway, what's fascinating is Charlie Cox is Brian Cox's late brother.
00:19:30
Speaker
So this is long before Brian was involved in the project. And then when Brian did become involved, I thought, well, I'm not going to tell him that people used to make this comment about it. And then Brian came and did the radio and we was interviewed in Reporting Scotland that night. And in the interview, Brian, who lived in New York at the time, he came back to do it. He said, I've loved coming back to do this Dundee character. And in fact, the the person, the character really reminds me of was my late brother, Charlie.
00:19:57
Speaker
And he so he saw that connection himself. Now, that was fascinating because and Charlie was a real eccentric, very much saw himself as ah and a kind of heightened degree of self-importance.
00:20:08
Speaker
So it became this self-perpetuating thing where that was already the character, but that's how Brian saw him as well, and that's what he brought to performance. Brian's talked about Charlie to me about Charlie would always talk as if he was sort of ah a hero of a Western.
00:20:22
Speaker
So whenever the VAT whenever the VAT people were after him, Charlie would say the posse are after me, it's what he'd call the VAT people. And one one memorable occasion when the posse were getting too close, he said to Brian, I'm taking to the prairie, I'm hiding out, I'm taking to the prairie. And what that meant is he went off and spent a week in a static caravan near Fortford.
00:20:44
Speaker
So but um that kind of comic voice was very much there. And the other great story about Charlie Cox, which a guy told me at the Edinburgh Book Festival all once, he said that he went into Charlie Cox's newsagent on his way to school at Montyfeath High as a teenager. He was in his full school uniform and he bought some chewing gum with one pound note and Charlie Cox said, i've got I've got no change, would you take a cabbage?
00:21:10
Speaker
And he tried to give him a cabbage in lieu of change. Anyway, I told Brian that and in the second series of Bob's Servant, there's a scene where we put that in where you a lady comes up to the burger van, takes a burger,
00:21:25
Speaker
pays for the change and Brian says I've got no change and tries to give her a cabbage and then she says that's a lettuce and Bob says would you take a lettuce and let your leaves.
00:21:37
Speaker
Anyway that scene's got no relevance to the wider plot but Brian and I put that in I guess and in in tribute to Charlie. So my short answer is we, ah Brian and I were very attuned with the idea of who Bob was. We both grew up with Bob Servant type characters around us and there's a particular Dundonian bent to him perhaps of that local lad made goods according to local lad would be the summary of it.
00:22:05
Speaker
I've got question about Dundee. Obviously Dundee is very famous for Naughty Boys with Dennis the Menace. yeah um Is there a bit of Dennis the Menace Observing? Yeah absolutely. I mean there's a wide, a great Dundonian tradition. Dundee is a very literary city Great writers have come from Dundee, great musicians and artists.
00:22:24
Speaker
um And I think Bob is in a sort of pantheon of Dundonian presences. So, for example, William McGonagall, who you may be aware of, seen as the kind of world's worst poet,
00:22:39
Speaker
and I think he's much more interesting than that. He was a Dondonian poet, self-appointed poet, who thought he was the greatest poet in the world and wrote these incredibly grandiose, self-important, um pretty inarguably poor poetry.
00:22:57
Speaker
but with real panache, if you like. He used to perform them in pubs in Dundee and people would throw bowls of peas at him and things. And he once walked to Balmoral Castle to ask Queen Victoria if he could be poet laureate, but he'd actually been tricked into doing so by some of his friends. and he's actually been re-evaluated in recent years, McGonaghan. There's a belief that maybe he was a bit more knowing than he's traditionally seen as being.
00:23:21
Speaker
And then you've got and Michael Mara, who's a fantastic Dundonian singer-songwriter, sadly no longer with us, who wrote brilliant music, but with real kind of humour within it.
00:23:33
Speaker
um Ricky Ross of Deacon Blue, he's a Dundonian, and I think, you know, the lyrics of Dignity, they're kind of perhaps put best known songs, got some really clever, kind of slightly more humorous aspects of life within it. and and And I think that, and then obviously The Bino and the Dandy, which were written DC Thompson and along with lots of other kind of comics and stuff that I grew up on. And there is I guess there's a mischievous nature to it all, but I think there's also a slightly absurdist aspect to East Coast Scots in general, but particularly Dundonian humour. And I think, yeah, we certainly embrace that with all servants.
00:24:15
Speaker
And let's get back to Bob and, you know, that moment at which he ah thinks he's going to win, and then suddenly he meets Hendo Henderson at his front door. and kills his fish, yeah which seems to be the reason he's lost the election.
00:24:29
Speaker
To what do you decide that that's the point at which the election turned against Bob and he was going to win before that? But that was the point at which, obviously, the campaign collapsed. Well, yes, I think the campaign, I mean, I think It was important that he's just not relentlessly failing. think that just is a comic character over six
Bob's Optimism and Comedic Appeal
00:24:48
Speaker
episodes. You have to find some semblance of victory along the way, even if perhaps Bob overs overplays that sense of victory in his head.
00:24:58
Speaker
And are then, ah you know, trying to find, making sure that we are playing off historical... issues for Bob that existed before the by-election came along is very important to feel like actually we're telling a sort of character story rather than everything happens as a result of this by-election and everyone we meet comes in because of the by-election so it it's about bringing out historical nemesis in the form of Hendo.
00:25:24
Speaker
Killing the fish sadly wasn't great for his campaign but I'd suggest there were other issues along the way. I think it was already on the skids before that, do you? i want I think retrospectively, when you get to the end, you realise he probably was always in a bit of trouble. We try and give him some little whims as he went.
00:25:43
Speaker
but um But his relentless optimism is very important, I think. you know That's the other thing with... well yeah And it's a fairly generic thing, I think, particularly with sitcom characters, is they have to be relentlessly...
00:25:56
Speaker
optimistic because then they have ambition and then they're front-footed and then they make terrible decisions.
00:26:03
Speaker
Let's get on to the count and when he eventually finds out his fate. One of the things that, by the way, I've received criticism about Bob Servan because obviously election nerds go, that's not how counting works.
00:26:15
Speaker
They say it's transparent, you can see how people are voting, it's disgrace they've got this wrong. How do you respond to those critics?
00:26:25
Speaker
I respond with great respect and best wishes. I mean, you know, research is that something that I've probably got a bit better with over the years. I do projects now that beget research as a necessity.
00:26:41
Speaker
But I'm very, very willing to admit that with Bob Servant, research was probably not top of my... yeah Take it on the chin, that like yeah that condemnation of your knowledge of elections, will you? Oh, listen, whatever you do, you get feedback. I remember when I did the gold, which starts with a heist in a warehouse, one guy contacted me to see that the shelving system in the warehouse was actually not introduced until several years later in the late 80s, so. He can never win. Yeah, that's the problem, isn't it? m
00:27:15
Speaker
Now, eventually, Bob finds out his fate. um And his response, as you've described from an eternal optimist, is triple figures.
Electoral Defeat and Local Charm
00:27:24
Speaker
i and And the local population clearly decided to keep him broughty-fairy because he can do more good there than going down to London and telling us all what for. um Is that literally the point of Bob?
00:27:37
Speaker
Is that even though he's been... crucified electoral in the local population and said, no, we don't think so. oh do you think that's his optimism showing through? Well, first and foremost, I think it was very important he lost, and i think it was very important he lost heavily, because I think with the comedy, with the sitcom, which is fantastical, often by nature, and heightened reality and everything else, you need to try and give it some semblance of truth
00:28:08
Speaker
if you like. So Bob, so this i think the starting points for a lot of the episodic stories are sort of and real, if you like. there's He launches his campaign.
00:28:21
Speaker
He worries that he doesn't have a partner, so he attempts to get a girlfriend. He thinks about trying to court the religious vote. He thinks about courting the media. He takes part in debates where he thinks he needs needs to really make his mark and feel different to the other candidates. These are all kind of...
00:28:37
Speaker
and believable, relevant, and indeed sort of necessary steps that he takes, if you like. And then you take that logical starting point and obviously push it in kind of comedic direction.
00:28:52
Speaker
So again, as part of that, I remember some people saying, oh, should have won and gone to London and seen him in the Houses of Parliament. And that's just, you know, it's kind of ridiculous. I mean, why would he win? I mean, his campaign was a joke i mean and he made terrible, terrible decisions along the way.
00:29:09
Speaker
And what are you then saying about the people who brought you ferry if they'd elected him? Equally, what's funny with Bob Serbant, seeing him in his natural habitat and seeing him in his little world, because he was never going to leave it. So I think it was very important he lost, and and I was always determined he would lose, it would be an appalling defeat, and a kind of seismic defeat.
00:29:31
Speaker
So, and then he would obviously try and find a way to spin it. And again, that's, you know, a kind of comedic representation of what you see. i mean, one of the, as someone who's got a great interest in politics and stays up for election night, you know, watching the, the,
00:29:47
Speaker
Liz Truss refused to come in from her car for the count in the last election was, you know, just genuinely very sort of comedic turn of events. And then when you see these people, she didn't, remember, but when you see people make these speeches and trying to kind of claw some sort of sense of achievement from defeat, and I think it's very, it's it was, Bob was always going to do that. He was always going to try and spin defeat as victory and,
00:30:16
Speaker
um find some sense of achievement within it. So, and again, I think that makes him a more endearing character. He didn't throw his toys out the pram. He's weirdly philosophical about it all. um So no, I thought that was important that that's how it how it played out. And that was certainly important at character level of how he handled the final result.
00:30:37
Speaker
Obviously, I don't know what your plan is for Bob in the future, but 26 sees elections to the Scottish Parliament. Might we see Bob standing for election next year? No, I think he now thinks he's taking care of politics and it's probably ultimately beneath him. And he's got um bigger fish to fry, I'd imagine.
00:30:57
Speaker
I thought burgers to fry, not fish to fry, surely. That's a good good point. Well, he did um we did a Radio show two years ago Bob Seren says cheerio where he kind of announced and again this is about his that sort of sense of grandeur and self-importance where he he publicly announces retirement for public life which I think he he thought was something that should be abdicated yeah he thought that was something that should be really clearly marked and lamented by the public so I think um that oh who knows but you never know but I think that's probably going to Bob's last public outing that video for sure
00:31:35
Speaker
I think we're all disappointed by that, to be honest. ah Because I can't tell you how many times I've watched the box set of Bob's Servant Independent and because it just reminds me my job's really important to try and make sure that people understand elections better.
00:31:49
Speaker
Is there any final thoughts you'd like to say about Bob and why elections matter and and why you think he's a good example of why fictional characters are very good at portraying portraying elections?
00:32:04
Speaker
Well...
Elections as Storytelling Framework
00:32:05
Speaker
I think structurally, what's great with an election, if you write a television show, is you have what you want with a television show is as many things to happen as possible in as short a time as possible. that's That's what gives you story and gives you peace and stakes and everything else. So with a by-election or an election campaign, you have this fixed period of time You have a very natural engine for story because the candidate has to do things, has to get out there and try and win votes. They have to prove themselves. there's ah There's a pressure on the character to impose their personality on the world around them, which is what you you want. They're motivated.
00:32:46
Speaker
and And, you know, they're being tested and examined. So they're kind of being put through the mill, which is what you want with a ah character as well. And the um and the stakes the stakes are kind of inherent. You know, there's a prize.
00:33:03
Speaker
There's a very natural building of the stakes as Election Day nears. So there's ah an inherent visceral pressure to the to the story you're telling. And then you have your finale, you have your finale ready made, which is the results. and then So it's it's structurally attractive for for a writer to get a fictional character in there. You know that you've got a shape to it. You know that you've got an interesting premise.
00:33:30
Speaker
And it asks big questions of your character. So you get to deeper stuff very quickly. So you know again, Bob Servant, realizing he doesn't he's the only candidate with a photo, doesn't have partner.
00:33:43
Speaker
who then looks to gain a partner, but and we probably could have done this more skillfully and in a deeper sense, but then it becomes, well, why don't I have partner? They can ask bigger questions about their life. So it can touch on fundamental things for your character.
00:33:57
Speaker
think my favourite line from the whole thing is to prove his level of self-delusion is the point at which the potential girlfriend tries to JFK with a haddock.
00:34:10
Speaker
That's true. I mean, it's it's i can't it's quite as nice. as it At the stage now where i if I watch it I can't remember some of it. So, um yeah, and does he I think he then accuses her of wearing a wire. or I don't know. He's often accusing people of wearing wires. But it's ah ah his it was just... Brian, you know, had probably not done very much comedy at all at that point. And um it was so... It was kind of amazing. he was you know When I grew up in Dundee, in the Dundee Courier, I used to read about Brian Cox and this Hollywood actor who's from Dundee, from Brian Constable Street near Stobbswell Park, near Baxter Park, I should say. Sorry, get corrected there by a Dundonian. but um
00:34:56
Speaker
and it was a meeting It was absolutely amazing that he came to do it, like amazing. And and when i but we filmed that, I'd never been on a TV set before. you know i'd stay at my mum and dad's and I'd walk around the corner to Bob Servant's house and were shooting all this stuff in Brody Ferry.
00:35:11
Speaker
kind of magical experience, really. So <unk> I'm delighted that people still discover it. And, you know, I'll i'll get sent maybe once set every six months, I'll get someone to send me a photo of themselves in Brotty Ferry and they've gone to get photos of themselves in front of Bob's house.
00:35:28
Speaker
And I think it's amazing that it's still got a sort of afterlife like it does. So it's I feel very privileged have been part of it. Well, to research this episode, which obviously i always wanted to to interview myself on the grounds, although this is not my job, I thought, this is what I'm doing, whether they like it or not.
00:35:48
Speaker
We actually went to Scotland to to go to Broughty Ferry to visit Dawson's Park to actually feel the local zeitgeist before we interviewed you. Quite right. And check out the dog duck situation.
00:36:00
Speaker
Yeah. And the extension. The extension. Yeah. i mean, there was a very funny Dundonian thing. where were filming in that house. I always thought that would be Bob's house. It's a lovely old cottage and they've put this extension, which has got these amazing views.
00:36:14
Speaker
And I remember went to um I just went around to the house and told the guy about it. And he said, oh yeah, that should be fine. And we did it. And then when we were filming on the first day, we were all setting up. And this couple that lived locally came along and in a very Dundonian way went, what are you using this place for? Come and see our extension.
00:36:31
Speaker
And they tried to like tried to drag me around the corner to see their extension that they thought was more impressive, which I thought was a very Bob Servant thing. we did touch earlier but the the We did a screening of Bob Servant, first episode in Gardine Theatre in Brotty Ferry. And a lady came over to me at the end and she looked a bit shell-shocked. And she said, um oh, you must have known her dad.
00:36:53
Speaker
And she told me that her dad was a Dondonian publican who'd also ran in by-elections. He ran in a multitude of elections, always with outlandish policies. the one The only one I can remember is that he was encouraging people to eat roadkill.
00:37:06
Speaker
um But she was she said, that you know, this is this must be based on my dad. And I had a few of them. I had a few people contacting me saying, I think there was a Northampton Market stallholder.
00:37:18
Speaker
And he sort of, I think only semi-joking suggested I might have been inspired by him that he'd run for Berthamptonshire Council on a number of occasions. um So yeah, I think there's definitely a lot Bob's servants out there, I think.
00:37:35
Speaker
Well, that's for you to say and me not to comment on, because obviously we're deeply impartial at democracy volunteers. We don't say what we think about party politics themselves. But Neil, it's been absolute pleasure. and It is one of my all-time favourite TV programmes and one that really badly portrays elections. And it's very important that people know that. um Thanks very much for your time, Neil, and speak soon. Thanks very much.
00:37:58
Speaker
Thanks for having me. Thank you.