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After Dark: The Simpsons and the Springfield Ballot Box
20 Plays20 days ago
Joshua Paisley is joined by Simpsons enthusiast Damon Balgen to examine two of the show's most politically charged episodes - Two Cars in Every Garage and Three Eyes on Every Fish and Sideshow Bob Roberts - and ask how much has really changed since they first aired in the 1990s. The conversation unpacks Mr Burns' cynically managed gubernatorial campaign, complete with mudslinger, garbologist and a fateful dinner with the Simpsons, before turning to Sideshow Bob's stolen mayoral election, attack ads modelled on the infamous Willie Horton spot, and a Republican Party headquarters that looks fit for Dracula. From voter fraud by deceased pets to the perennial question of whether it's the economy or the character assassination that wins elections, the episode explores what The Simpsons - four decades on - still gets right about political corruption, media manipulation, and family dinner table division. And just how Springfield would handle Brexit.
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Transcript
Introduction to Observations Podcast and The Simpsons
00:00:10
Speaker
Hello, my name is Joshua Paisley and welcome to the Observations podcast. And importantly, welcome to our new series called After Dark. In each episode, we will choose a fictional election for a TV series, novel or movie and try to flesh it out.
00:00:26
Speaker
Today, our podcast will have a look at everyone's favorite American family, The Simpsons, focusing on two episodes, Sideshow Bob Roberts and Two Cars for Every Garage and Three Eyes on Every Fish.
00:00:38
Speaker
The Simpsons has a notorious habit of being able to predict the future. From Homer's scribbling of an equation eerily close to the Higgs boson 14 years before it be discovered.
00:00:49
Speaker
Please don't ask me what the hell the Higgs boson actually is. To Lisa in a 1992 episode of The Simpsons predicting the Washington Redskins to beat the Buffalo Bills in the Super Bowl final.
Analysis of 90s Simpsons Episodes with Damon Balgen
00:01:01
Speaker
Today, we will see if The Simpsons can do it again, discussing how relevant The Simpsons' portrayal of elections still are today, and some of the original inspiration for the episodes.
00:01:12
Speaker
I am joined today by our honorary Simpsons expert, Damon Balgen. Firstly, Damon, what did you think of the episodes we watched? I think it's really interesting, Josh. um Really good to be here, and I won't ask you what a Higgs boson is. um But the the episodes, but the two we're going to be discussing today, were both broadcast in the 90s, which was the first thing that was really interesting watching them back last night for about the 56th time, was how relevant they still are today, and particularly relevant to to politics, not just in the US, but globally as well.
00:01:48
Speaker
Definitely. i mean, I always find it interesting when you watch back these shows from your childhood childhood and you realise, well, these are 14 children and realising how many details and subtle messaging I would have missed. And that was definitely the case when watching back these two episodes.
00:02:05
Speaker
Let's get back to the matter at hand and let's give a little narrative for our listeners.
Recap of Mr. Burns' Political Campaign
00:02:11
Speaker
So let's start with the episode, Two Cars in Every Garage and Three Eyes on Every Fish.
00:02:16
Speaker
So this released in the second season of The Simpsons, so it's very early, in November 1990. The same time the Righteous Brothers classic, Unchained Melody, stood firm at number one in the charts.
00:02:29
Speaker
The episode kicks off with Lisa and Bart catching a three-eyed fish that had been subject to the toxic waste released from Mr. Burns' power plant. This triggers a public outcry and an investigation into Mr. Burns' plant.
00:02:42
Speaker
When independent regulators visit the plant, they find uranium rods used as paperweights and chewing gum used to seal cracks in the chimneys. It's fair to say Mr. Burns' workplace does not pass the test, and he is faced with $56 million dollars worth of repairs.
00:02:59
Speaker
Sobbing in his car, Homer who passes by gives him the idea, why don't you run for governor? That way he can decide what is safe and unsafe. Burns' campaign is carefully managed, employing the best team money can buy, including, quite hilariously, a speechwriter, a joke writer, a spin doctor, a makeup man, a personal trainer, and to deface Mary Bailey, his opponent.
00:03:24
Speaker
a muckraker, a character assassin, a mudslinger and a garbologist. whilst his Whilst it is unclear what Mr Burns' policies are exactly, all appears to be going swimmingly well.
00:03:37
Speaker
His campaign focuses on lowering taxes, attacking, quote, those bureaucrats down there in the state capital and a series of TV advertisements. At the eve of the election, Mary Bailey and Burns are neck and neck in the polls.
00:03:52
Speaker
To tip the tide, Mr Burns' campaign organises a photo op dinner at the Simpsons house. However, this is where it all unravels for the Burns' campaign. As Burns and the Simpson family tuck into their dinner, all seems to be going well.
00:04:06
Speaker
That is, until Marge, a major supporter for Mary Bailey, brings out the main course. Burns is presented by Blinky, the three-eyed fish caught by Bart and Lisa earlier in the episode.
00:04:18
Speaker
Pressured to eat the fish, Burns tries and fails, spritzing out the fish and humiliating Pierre Disaster. The staged dinner backfires, the media turns against Burns, and his campaign collapses.
Recap of Sideshow Bob's Mayoral Campaign
00:04:32
Speaker
Now to another quick narrative on the next episodes just to bring listeners up to speed. The next episode is Sideshow Bob Roberts, released in October 1994, so a bit a bit later.
00:04:44
Speaker
A week before the release of the classic Tarantino movie, Pulp Fiction, and I do hear you ask who was UK number one. It was in fact Take That Shore. I don't think that's a better song than The Righteous Brothers, to be honest.
00:04:57
Speaker
The episode opens up with Birchbald T. Barlow, a parody of the conservative radio and TV pundit Rush Limbauer, who whips up a public pressure for the release of Sideshow Bob.
00:05:09
Speaker
Joe Quimby, the mayor of Springfield, gives in to the pressure, releasing the convicted criminal. With an upcoming mayor election, the Republican Party meet at their HQ, which, if you watch it, can only be described as a home fit for Dracula, to be honest.
00:05:25
Speaker
They decide they need a candidate with quotes, name recognition and media savvy. A true leader who does exactly who what he is told. Naturally, they pick Sideshow Bob.
00:05:36
Speaker
Bob runs an aggressive campaign using attack ads portraying Quimby as weak on crime for a TV advertisement mocking the infamous Horton ads that damaged Michael Dukakis in the 1988 presidential election.
00:05:51
Speaker
the ads portray prisons as a revolving door using emotional rhetoric to win over Springfield. After a calamitous performance in the presidential-style TV debate where Quimby accidentally styles his hair in the shape of devil horns, he is defeated by Bob in a landslide, 100 to 1, with 1% margin of error.
00:06:12
Speaker
Bob, once in power, immediately pursues revenge against the Simpsons, attempting to evict the family from their home to build the new expressway. Lisa smells a rat.
00:06:23
Speaker
After secretly meeting Mr Swivers in an all the president's mem-esque way, he tells Lisa the name Edgar Newbauer. Lisa, in her investigation, is able to attain all the votes for the mayoral election, including confidential information on who voted for who.
The Simpsons' Influence on Political Awareness
00:06:39
Speaker
She finds a scandal. The long dead had been voting for Bob. Even pets like Snowball the First, Mr and Mrs Banana and the snake snake Humphrey Beaugard all endorse the ex-convict.
00:06:52
Speaker
When Lisa and Bart confront Bob in court, they bait him into confessing, parodying the line made famous by the film of Few Good Men. You can't handle the truth. When asked why he rigged the election, Bob claims...
00:07:05
Speaker
While Springfield's guilty conscience may force you to vote Democratic, deep down you long for a cold-hearted Republican to lower taxes, brutalise criminals and rule you like a king.
00:07:18
Speaker
Bob is sent back to prison, however this time he is sent to Springwood's minimum security prison, complete with a Riverside villa and rowing against Princeton alumni. So Damon,
00:07:31
Speaker
What do you feel has drawn you to these episodes more so than a news story about elections? it's It's interesting. you I think one of the things that intrigued me is, as somebody who, I'm not going to give my AYT listeners, but when The Simpsons was first being broadcast, it was broadcast two days after I was born.
00:07:54
Speaker
So as a young man growing up watching these episodes, As you say, they're in the early early and late 90s, both of But for me, it was an education, really, as well. It's the first time I've ever seen politics discussed
Cultural and Political References in The Simpsons
00:08:10
Speaker
on TV. e Before that, I was watching cartoons which had little to no grounding in reality, Tom and Jerry's and all that sort of stuff.
00:08:18
Speaker
So to have this actually really in a living room and, you know, on primetime TV, And, you know, back in the day, this was viewing that people had to watch The Simpsons was immensely popular at that point. It was what you would talk about the playground the next day. To have this kind of discussion really informed my worldview and actually encouraged me to go further into politics and become really engaged in in that as well.
00:08:47
Speaker
Yeah, I completely second that. And I would also say that sentence What really surprised me was The Simpsons constant reference to either popular culture or real life events. And so, for example, in Sideshow Bob Roberts, the TV advertisement attacking Quimby, detailing prisons have become a revolving door, is a complete parody of the infamous Horton ads that damaged Michael Dukakis.
00:09:13
Speaker
or even the name of the episode, Two Cars in Every Garage and Three Eyes on Every Fish, is a reference to the political campaign of Herbert Hoover's in 1928 campaign, a chicken in every pot and a car in every garage.
00:09:28
Speaker
So, I mean, it's it's really interesting how The Simpsons is able to use real life events and package it within a comedic manner. And for me, that's actually really successful and really useful. I wondered, is that a good way, do you think, to package this kind of information?
00:09:43
Speaker
I think so. It's interesting because you can, The Simpsons is so, know, anybody's ever watched an episode and then watched an episode back as an adult, as we were saying at the beginning, can realize how multi-layered these shows are.
00:09:56
Speaker
And the fact is that you could actually not be at all aware of that reference you just made to the title or anything. and still take something from it. And you don't need to know the detail to understand the themes. that's what The Simpsons does really well.
00:10:11
Speaker
um You know, we've seen it recently in the South Park. South Park elements goes after people and people in power, we particularly with the recent episode about Slump, for The Simpsons doesn't tend to do that. It tends to go after themes and ideas, um which is why now we're looking at this 20 plus years on, and it's still lervant.
00:10:32
Speaker
to what we're talking about today. This isn't a show that's particularly aged. Some of it has, you know. But in terms of the actual narrative in the conversation, it really is as relevant today as it was back in
Is The Simpsons Merely a Cartoon or Social Commentary?
00:10:45
Speaker
1992.
00:10:45
Speaker
Yeah. But do you feel as if, after all, it is just a cartoon and we could be reading far too much into these two episodes. do Do you think there's any truth for that? Or do you think they still hold up as a real figure point?
00:11:01
Speaker
I think they they hold up because say not much, everything has changed, but not much has changed. You know, the animation style has got, there's, you know, moved from hand-drawn to digital-assisted. It's still partly hand-drawn. And we're now watching on streaming rather than watching it on Skype at six o'clock on on a Sunday evening. We can watch it whenever we want to.
00:11:25
Speaker
But the same process, the fact is that it's continued to keep the audience and it's continued to be a popular touchstone as well. You know, that I could be here in the UK, I could be in the America, I could be in Japan, and everybody could get the same references in there. yeah and it's And it's universal. but I think yes, there's possibility. It's just a cartoon is is completely right. It is just a cartoon at the end of the day It's not real life. But the fact is that it is clearly mirroring and continues to mirror
00:11:58
Speaker
life and actually allow some sort of escapism that to us to put up a mirror to our own life if it was actually real life yeah we may not take it we may take it too seriously but by having that separation and being clearly a comedy that has a heart and has a message underneath it it kind of opens up that discussion and i was saying about the commonality everybody's seen that like the means of Homer disappearing into the into the hedge and and how common that is, you know.
Elections in The Simpsons: Image vs. Substance
00:12:31
Speaker
I mean, it's iconic, isn't it? Iconic. But the point is, the fact is that I can be referencing this episode in this moment and actually it allows people to talk across divides as well.
00:12:42
Speaker
yeah mean but I guess that's an interesting point about The Simpsons and we talk about the heart of The Simpsons. Yes. so It's a common critique to say that The Simpsons is very far left partisan and it is left-leaning if you watch those two episodes i mean the example of the republican hq being a place fit for dracula yes the the that is very partisan in a way how would you respond to that criticism of we can take a lot from the simpsons but it still is political i would say yeah i would say the common the common criticism over the years of the simpsons being left
00:13:23
Speaker
Leaning is quite true, to be honest. But if you look at episodes like this and then you look other episodes, there was a an episode later Lisa Simpson's Goes to Washington, where Lisa discovers that actually blibely and corruption at Washington is is quite common.
00:13:40
Speaker
but let's And then there's a later episode where Krusty ends up becoming a congressman and and the only way he can get a bill through is by... um being pragmatic and falling on his own sword and so on. I think that actually it shows one thing that democracy ultimately is flawed irrespective of the way you are, but the idealism that the left is identified in as Lisa, Lisa is kind of a tent pole for that. um The fact is over many, many times it's shown that actually
00:14:14
Speaker
the the left has a lot of ideas, but not necessarily lot of ability to deliver. As you describing in these episodes, of the Republicans on the right in these scenes are shown as literally evil characters. As you say, one of them is literally Dracula who served blood by Smithers in ones in one scene. It does characterise them in quite binary terms, which for show actually kind of helps about that narrative as well, because it also helps bring um people into it by actually kind of like, oh, this is quite funny. this's quite by bit but And then then you take a step back and you watch it back again, maybe as an adult or maybe a second time as a young person. And you go, oh, actually, now there's something in this to to think about. So sometimes it's just p play for comic effect. But other times it very much is.
00:15:10
Speaker
Actually, we're going to skewer both sides. Yeah. And I guess that's one of the great benefits of comedy in a way that you can take very serious discussions, say those Horton ads about Dukakis and bring some life into them and bring some conversation, which is what we're doing
Election Integrity and Systemic Issues
00:15:28
Speaker
right now. Going back to elections, I think it'd be great to talk about If we were going to observe one of these elections, what would we actually think?
00:15:37
Speaker
um In the first episode with Mr Burns, we actually don't see the election because he he doesn't make it to that point. But when we see Sideshow Bob versus Quimby, we actually see a polling station.
00:15:49
Speaker
And I mean, my question to you, Damon, is would you feel comfortable voting in this election knowing that your vote would be counted?
00:15:59
Speaker
I'd be more uncomfortable the fact is that Lisa after that moment was able to find out how everybody voted and who they voted for um and just by going into a public library. I'd be a bit more concerned about that but yeah I mean it's it's interesting it's that the there was ah there's a montage in there where there is people who um who Sysho Bob has slighted over his time at home as saying about he doesn't agree with his bark-killing policy, but does agree with his Selma-killing policy, for example. It's just how ridiculous some of Bob's promises were and how outlandish they were. I mean, the fact is he was he said at the beginning when he ended up constructing the the expressway, which was the Matlock expressway,
00:16:50
Speaker
named after the fictional aged detective that got the vote of the retirement homes. It kind of showed how outlandish some of his pledges were, but that was how he was able to get elected as well.
00:17:05
Speaker
Yeah, I guess that is the great cardinal sin committed by this polling station, is that there is the presence of candidate advertisement in the polling station. As as you say, Homer is coiling with it. The quotes, I don't agree with his bark killing policy, but I do approve his Selma killing policy.
00:17:23
Speaker
And Krusty the clown is the same when he opens, well, he framed me for armed robbery, but man, i'm making for that upper class tax cut. This is a prime example of why we actually don't have candidate advertisement in our polling stations, because to to the credit of the polling station, the secrecy of your actual polling booth, I thought was actually pretty good.
00:17:47
Speaker
But To have that advertisement is such a problem within polling stations. And this is just another prime example of it I thought the Simpsons also, to their credit, about bringing up discussions and their relevancy today, is the comment on mechanised voting methods.
00:18:08
Speaker
And so in the episode, we see levers, two levers are the form of voting. I mean this might be a bit alien to everyone listening to this in the UK who's writing down a ballot, but this is actually, well, not a lever, but some kind of machine to vote is commonplace across the world. So Brazil use it the US use it in certain states.
00:18:32
Speaker
um And thinking about how the Simpsons is still relevant today, It's such an interesting debate where after the events of the 2020 presidential election, in which, for example, Georgia won by a slim majority and swung towards Biden, Trump claimed that the election fraud cost him the victory. And after a series of court cases, earned April earlier this year, a federal judge has declined to block the use of George's electronic voting system.
00:19:00
Speaker
Again, showing how the Simpsons episode is demonstrating its relevancy, in this case, in in an ongoing debate to the decide what is the best way to vote or how they should cast their ballots.
00:19:12
Speaker
So Damon, how did the episodes manage to point out the ridiculous aspects of the voting system? And yet there's still this feeling that nothing gets done about those aspects in the end.
00:19:24
Speaker
think one of the the interesting things we talked about in episodes, as I said before, in 92 and the late 90s as well, and we're still talking about the same issues now.
00:19:36
Speaker
And one of the interesting ones, as you said before, we never get to see the the end vote where Burns goes to the polls, but we do get to see that and we do get to see sorry so Bob elected as as and beating Wiggum. No, sorry, beating Mayor Quimby.
00:19:53
Speaker
But within that, the the show ends by Lisa and Bart teaming up together to encourage Bob's hubris in o admitting that he actually planned the whole campaign, flawed, and is subsequently sent back to jail, although hilariously a minimum security jail where he ends up blowing boats instead of doing time.
Comedy as a Tool for Political Discussion
00:20:13
Speaker
But the point to that is it shows you how are they're able to deal with a symptom.
00:20:19
Speaker
of the problem and not actually the actual problem itself. I don't think there's an episode where they've actually gone and this is the systematic issue a hand. It's actually taken a snapshot of a period time You know, we talk about Dukakis there and as the example they do a skit about Bob Dom and Clinton during the Treehouse of Orr episode with the two Kangs, Kang Kodos. But within that, they never became to be a documentary. They never became the wire and actually showing you
00:20:55
Speaker
a the broader picture but also the what to be done about it and i think that's one of the benefits and the problems about the simpsons the simpsons does show you that but it also thinks the simpsons are the viewers are smart enough to figure out that this is a problem and for them to make up their own minds And Damon, do you think that's a more convincing way to convey certain arguments in this case about elections? But I guess as a this is a greater point about The Simpsons.
00:21:23
Speaker
But do you feel through that comedic nature, it's far more effective? I think so. i think the fact is that it's, as said before, it's the themes and everything else. The fact is that it doesn't feel like a show. It feels like a show that left leans, but it isn't a show that is on the left. It doesn't feel like it's a show that's on the right, or necessarily even at the centre. It ebbs and it flows.
00:21:47
Speaker
Which in an area where we're all being fractured into our little echo bubbles and people don't engage with media, the fact is that this show that everybody was able to engage with, whether on your right, on the left, whoever you are, and actually have some sort of commonality and take an interest in it really helps. and The fact is that a comedy helps us do that.
00:22:10
Speaker
and actually break through that ah divide because there are a number of other shows on the air that either side a little bit won't watch and won't engage with um because they're seen to be particularly one way or particularly or the other.
00:22:22
Speaker
And I think the Simpsons hit the really sweet spot by being deciding to disguise this sort of stuff in intimate and adult animation. Talking about those themes...
00:22:34
Speaker
It's such an interesting topic how the Simpsons criticises US elections for their form over substance. And this is something that we see in both episodes. So Mr Burns' campaign is a really good example of where you would think you click he would commit political suicide. So at the start of his TV advertisement, Mr Burns forgets he is live.
00:22:57
Speaker
stating, by the time this paid political announcement is done, every lunch pail in this whole stupid state will be eating out of my hand. Whilst Mr Burns is able to get away with this, it is the gaffe of spitting out a piece of meat from the free-eyed fish that his whole campaign collapses.
00:23:14
Speaker
This episode shows how elections focus on image rather than substance. When Mr Burns' is downfall isn't his corruption as seen earlier in the episode, it's his PR disaster.
00:23:26
Speaker
And we see this again with Quimby, who runs afoul of this form over substance. So in a TV event outside the school, it is Lisa and Bart who recognise the importance of catching the perfect photo.
00:23:38
Speaker
They grab Quimby and sit him on his lap, presenting the candidate as a fatherly, responsible and caring individual. Just as Quimby's image was aided by these pictures, during the election debate, Quimby's fatal blow came when he had adjusted his hair into what looked like devil horns, and the news company, adding a circle round the fire,
00:23:57
Speaker
around his face, turns into political suicide. Again, the Simpsons hammering down on what they perceive as the sad reality of elections, that often it is not polities that decide elections, but perceptions.
00:24:10
Speaker
Going back to elections, what would you say that these episodes teach us about the notions of elections in society? Do they highlight how comical they are, or is it simply that sometimes the most serious things can be made the best target for ridicule?
00:24:26
Speaker
Um... both, really. I don't think anything is above satire. um and And that's been a popular debate recently in in the US with the issues of Colbert and Jimmy Kimmel on the late night shows. I think the fact is that it comes over as comedy, as we said earlier, is that that it helps disguise a serious issue and kind of it submerges it under that is that actually love and being lectured at, you're made to laugh and then subsequently think about it.
00:25:01
Speaker
And as I said right at the beginning of this podcast as well, it's helped me inform my worldview to great. It's a lot of the underlying thing about The Simpsons is that actually they identify there's a problem and they show you there's a problem. And actually you can be quite jaded by it.
00:25:22
Speaker
um But are also the fact is I think that it's helped galvanize me as somebody who's involved in local organizing, for example, and actually bring that to the fore. And if it wasn't for The Simpsons, I'm not so sure I would be involved with it to this day.
00:25:35
Speaker
A key theme which... I saw about elections, which I'm not sure if you picked up on, was this Homer and Marge divide. Yes. Where actually we're, um um I just wonder what you think about that and how, for me, it was seeing how identifiable it is that you see families split on a political spectrum. And i just wondered if you saw it and what thoughts you had on it about our elections.
00:25:59
Speaker
Yeah, you do you do see it as Lily Obert in the episode focusing on Mr Burns, obviously, but, you know, as at we said before, Marge is a, as her terms, a Bailey booster, and then you've got Burns, there and there's and there's a moment where Lisa comments on the fact is that they're discussing it over the dinner table, and she feels like a Kennedy, um and ah and a faraway joke, but it's the fact is that actually how often do people discuss politics over the other table and sometimes in some families not at all and for Lisa la's that's a little shame but it also it really goes to show how and actually going back to your last point is how increasingly so families can be polarized by um increasingly divided camps and not necessarily seeing a point between middle and that's something you see
00:26:54
Speaker
not uncommonly in America where you have one member of the family which essentially sits as a Democrat and another member of family that sits as Republican and it becomes increasingly terse between them. um Thankfully, because of the ultimate heart of The Simpson is the love all the family we have for each other, it comes back to a happy ending. But it's entirely possible that actually those families now could be increasingly fragmented by polarized debate.
The Simpsons' Impact on Civic Engagement
00:27:20
Speaker
Yeah. And that's just another example of where The Simpsons, and these episodes of especially, are not just teaching us about the notions of elections today, but actually about our wider political sphere. And that's something that is really interesting to delve into.
00:27:33
Speaker
On a more lighthearted view, how can we watch these actually quite hard truths in these episodes and not become downhearted? It is challenging.
00:27:46
Speaker
I'm not gonna lie Joss, it is challenging and the fact is that we're talking about, you know, we've literally started this episode by saying not much has changed since these episodes have gone on. The themes still remain, corruption still thing, that is people getting elected because of the long reasons. um You know, self-incest over the public incest, for example.
00:28:08
Speaker
I think it's also gone to the point where actually recognize these themes and and irrespective of what side of the fence you sit on, whether it's on the left it's on the right or you're a senseless, the fact is that these themes apply to you.
00:28:24
Speaker
And whether, irrespective what episode, and there's multiple episodes we could have gone into tonight about um the various parts of the politics of The Simpsons, but as I said before, it's kind of encouraged me to get involved in my local community and be part of the democratic process at a local level.
00:28:44
Speaker
So, yes, it can be depressing, but it also encourages the fact that particularly we saw Bart and Lisa in the lot in the later episode, they actually made a difference in their community. They got Bob the end of the day. Even if they didn't solve the ultimate problem, they still got their man. So it does show you... And does that make it any less convincing?
00:29:06
Speaker
I mean, it makes it less convincing in the fact that that Lisa was able to get the voting records of everybody in Springfield lying batting an eyelid. um But Yeah, I think the fact is that it's told in a 24 minute show, potentially a bit less depending on the amount of adverts you have, that they have to go for it at quite a whip-stepping pace. um The fact is something like that probably would have taken a lot longer to do. It would have taken investigative journalists. They mentioned Bernstein, for example, from Watergate. And the fact is that took years to to clack and many investigations and many um hearings before Nixon went. um So the fact is it tells it in a short form has issues, but also the fact is that it's able to engage you for those 24 minutes and give you a complete narrative.
00:29:57
Speaker
It can, it yeah, it has its it has its pluses and it has its minuses. Yeah, you touched on to my next question there where I mean, as you say, there's there's benefits and cons here because you have a 24 minute episode, which is very accessible.
00:30:12
Speaker
But as we were talking about it earlier, do you feel the simplification of these really important themes about our elections? Do you think that's some a key issue in actually when we think about these episodes?
00:30:25
Speaker
I would say yes and no to that Josh. I would say that yeah it's it's a necessary evil for the Simpsons because obviously they're made for commercial TV and they have to get a lot of material in that short period of time and it can be the fact is that they missed some key things in that but also going back to what i was saying right at the beginning is the fact is that it is so simple and they take it down to the themes rather than necessarily identifiable people sometimes they do obviously you know there's a famous episode where bush moved in across the street um but the fact is that i could be talking about a u.s election the same way i'm talking about an election here in the uk whether that's at a government a national level or local level it's identifiable the fact is i could walk into anywhere in europe you know in ah in
00:31:22
Speaker
potentially in in Africa and or in Australia, and it was still relevant. It really helps build dialogue across that. And the fact is that you and I are sat on completely opposite parts of the country today and still having the same conversation.
00:31:36
Speaker
It really, yes, it is simple, but sometimes that simplicity translates into actually something that's really able to break through cultural barriers.
00:31:47
Speaker
So thank you very much for joining me, Damon. That was a really lovely discussion. Thanks for having me, Josh. Wherever and however you are tuning in for this episode of the After Dark series, thank you.
00:32:00
Speaker
If you found yourself interested in our discussion on The Simpsons and want to hear more about other fictional elections, stay tuned for more episodes. we' The Observation podcast is available on YouTube as well as Spotify at Observations Podcast.
00:32:15
Speaker
Perfect. Thank you very much.