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Electoral Reform: Should 16-Year-Olds Vote?
24 Plays20 days ago
In this special episode, host Lily Russell-Jones explores one of the government's most controversial electoral reforms: lowering the voting age to 16. With Scotland and Wales already allowing younger voters in some elections, is this a positive step for democracy or a risky experiment?
Eddie Barnes from the John Smith Centre at Glasgow University shares polling that reveals young people themselves are divided—48% support getting the vote, but 32% disagree and 20% aren't sure. The most common word 16-year-olds use to describe politics? "Confusing." Two-thirds say they don't feel prepared by schools to vote, and three-quarters of those unlikely to vote cite not knowing enough about politics as their reason.
Psychologist Dr. Lynette Thompson explains the neuroscience: while 16-year-olds are cognitively capable of voting and there's little biological difference between 16 and 18, the adolescent brain's prefrontal cortex won't fully develop until the mid-20s. She distinguishes between "hot cognition" (impulsive decisions) and "cold cognition" (considered decisions like voting), but warns about social pressure, identity formation, and how 16-year-olds struggle more with fake news and are more influenced by peer pressure when forming political opinions.
Finally, 17-year-old Alex Nurton from the UK Youth Parliament argues passionately that young people deserve a voice on issues like climate change that will affect their future far more than older voters. He calls for mandatory political education across the UK, pointing out that nothing fundamentally changes when you turn 18—yet policies consistently ignore 16 and 17-year-olds.
From brain development to ballot boxes, this episode examines whether giving young people the vote will strengthen democracy or whether we're asking them to make decisions they're not yet equipped for.
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Transcript
Introduction to Electoral Reforms
00:00:09
Speaker
Hello, you're listening to Observations, a podcast where we talk about democracy, how it works, and how it could work better. I'm your host, Lily Russell-Jones. In July, the government set out proposals to reform our electoral system, including lowering the voting age to 16, expanding voter ID to include bank cards, and tackling the harassment of political candidates.
Lowering the Voting Age: Pros and Cons
00:00:32
Speaker
Today, we'll be talking about the somewhat controversial decision to lower the voting age to 16 ahead of the next general election and how this could affect our democracy. I'm joined by Eddie Barnes from the John Smith Center at Glasgow University.
00:00:47
Speaker
Thank you for joining me, Eddie. Pleasure. Later in the episode, we'll be hearing from the campaigner, Alex Norton, and the psychologist, Lynette Thompson. Eddie, to start us off, do you think that giving the vote 16 year olds is a positive step for our democracy?
00:01:03
Speaker
Yes, I do. I think it's slightly qualified by some of the polling that we've done, which I'm happy to get into. But I think broadly speaking, I'm, as you say, at the University of Glasgow in Scotland.
00:01:15
Speaker
ah Votes at 16 has been in now for um a decade. Indeed, it was when the independence referendum, more than a decade ago, when um we saw a lot of engagement among 16 and 17 year olds during that referendum.
00:01:28
Speaker
I think there is evidence to show that the younger people get involved in politics, the more they are likely to remain involved and to stay active in there and engaged in active civic and political and life.
00:01:44
Speaker
So I think um it's not just about giving young people the votes, which I think is itself a good thing, but it's also about um sustaining and the kind of long-term health of our democracy. I think it's a good thing for that too.
00:01:56
Speaker
And for listeners who are unfamiliar, could you tell us a bit about the work of the John Smith Centre and your role there? Of course. um So named after John Smith, the former leader of the Labour Party who died in 1994,
00:02:08
Speaker
and who went to Glasgow University. And what we do at the university and and and try to do across the UK is is really to kind of nurture young people and encourage and inspire young people who want to get involved in ah public life and politics. um So that's you know through practical work, but also through campaigns.
00:02:27
Speaker
um So as I say, we do a bit of polling and we do kind of campaign work on the back of that. um to try and remove any barriers that are out there for young people who might want to get involved in politics or public life, but feel that that it's not for them or feel it's for other people. And we're trying to make the argument it is for you and you should get involved, um you know, both for yourself and for the country.
00:02:49
Speaker
So let's talk about how the current system works in the UK, because you touched on it in your first answer.
Current Voting Rights in Scotland and Wales
00:02:54
Speaker
um So 16 and 17 year olds can't currently vote in general elections, but in Scotland and Wales, they are allowed to vote in certain elections.
00:03:04
Speaker
That's correct. I mean, as you say, that young people in general election in Scotland is the same as anywhere else, can't can't vote at 16, 17. and But they have voted um in in in that in numbers over in Scotland for for several years. And I think, I don't have the numbers to hand, but I think there's evidence that the voting rates among 16, 17-year-olds are actually higher than they are for people in the maybe their late teens, early 20s. And again, there's some kind of good reasons for that. 16, 17-year-olds tend to still be at school.
00:03:35
Speaker
um They stand to tend to still be at home. So this is a time where they're in an environment where you know either through parental encouragement or through school encouragement, they're being they They're getting a little bit of politics, a little bit of public life in there in their world.
00:03:51
Speaker
So, again, it's a good opportunity, we think, to get them involved at that stage um and and and to maintain their interest and throughout their lives. And why do you think we've seen the government put forward this decision now?
Impact on Democracy and Political Parties
00:04:06
Speaker
I think, um I mean, the the kind of cynical argument has been, well, a Labour government will benefit from more young people voting. I'm not entirely sure that's true, and for voting for them, that is, because of the evidence that young people are more likely to vote leftwards than rightwards.
00:04:22
Speaker
As I say, I'm not entirely sure that's true, because I think there'll be ah some some evidence that perhaps 16-, 17-year-olds might go for other parties of the left rather than the Labour Party. But I think it's, I think um I'd like to think it's down to the evidence and the evidence that we've seen in Scotland and Wales, where it has been a success.
00:04:41
Speaker
um And I'd like to think also it's down to the fact that you know we know that when we speak to young people, and we do this quite a lot, um there are concerns ah that they express around democracy.
00:04:54
Speaker
um People's faith and trust in democracy as a system that um you know advances their lives is on notice, I think it's fair to say.
00:05:04
Speaker
um So i think I think I'd like to think that the motive is um You know, to try and ensure that we do get encouraged more people to take part in our democracy and therefore strengthen the democratic norms that we have rather taken for granted. But I don't think can anymore. So I think it's perhaps a combination of self-interest, but also national interest, and which has stimulated this decision.
00:05:27
Speaker
And it's been a somewhat controversial
Maturity and Education of Young Voters
00:05:29
Speaker
decision. There's been quite a lot of argument back and forth about whether this is a good idea. So what do you make of the argument that young people, 16 year olds might not be mature enough or knowledgeable enough to vote?
00:05:42
Speaker
i look i don't I wouldn't dismiss it. I mean, I think um i think like every in every age group, you know, it's not just 16, 17 year olds. Frankly, I'm 53 there'll be plenty of 53 year olds who probably have not ah spent vast amounts of time studying the political options that they've got. So um is that that that isn't just confined to young people, their kind of lack of knowledge, if you like, of of politics or lack of kind of political literacy, if you like.
00:06:10
Speaker
um but i think um What I think I would say is ah we've done some, as i say, some research into this. And um it's quite clear that a lot of young people who now are going to get the vote don't feel particularly well prepared or equipped to use that vote and to to take an informed choice.
00:06:30
Speaker
um So I think, um i think is i think iss as i say, I'm supporter of it. i think it's the right thing to do. I think most 16 and 17-year-olds are perfectly mature enough to be able to um to make an informed choice.
00:06:44
Speaker
But I think we do need to do more um to ensure that all young people, um as say, do feel as though they have the right preparation, um the the right, you know, more knowledge to be able to make a choice that they feel is makes a difference and isn't just sprung on them without them really knowing what to do about it.
00:07:06
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that's a really good segue into the research that you did over summer. So the John Smith Centre carried out this poll of 500, 16 and year olds, and they were quite divided over whether or not they should be allowed to vote, which I thought was very interesting. So 48% of young people agreed that they should get the vote, but 32% disagreed and 20% weren't sure. So why do you think that young people aren't sure about whether or not they should be voting? Yeah.
00:07:34
Speaker
I think it's because a lot of them ah don't feel as though they know enough um to use the vote. um So as you say, it quite divided. Not everybody thinks they should get it, although the the plurality of young people did But um when we asked young people, um you know do you feel ready enough, prepared enough, if you like, to to use the vote, two thirds said no, and that they didn't feel prepared by schools ah to use those vote.
00:08:03
Speaker
When we asked those those people who said that they were unlikely to use the vote, um Three quarters of them said it was because they didn't know enough about politics. It wasn't wasn't because they thought politics is toxic or irrelevant.
00:08:16
Speaker
They just didn't know enough about this subject matter and therefore felt, well, since I don't know much about this, I won't be exercising my right to vote. And then we did that classic thing of asking young people, you know could you just like sum up your view of politics and public life in one word?
00:08:35
Speaker
And the most common response we got back was the word confusing. And that was followed by complicated and boring. um So I think the the overall message we get from that is that, um sure, most young people think it's a good thing to get a vote, but a large number of them say,
00:08:55
Speaker
I might not vote, and it's because I really don't know enough about this. It's it's an extremely confusing, bewildering world you're asking me to go into. um therefore I might just butt out. um and And, you know, frankly, my school is not helping me much in giving me the right adequate preparation ah to feel I can make an informed voice. So, you know, overall message, I think, to the government is great.
00:09:19
Speaker
um I think it's the right thing to do. think, broadly speaking, it's good thing to do, but it is only the first step. And there's not much point saying, here, young people, have a vote and then walk off without doing more to ensure that um young people have the opportunity to learn and discover more about politics.
00:09:37
Speaker
And what do you think is going wrong here in terms of young people not feeling like they are informed? Because As part of the national curriculum in England, we have to do citizenship lessons and at secondary school level, you're meant to learn about how the country is governed and also how to engage in democracy. And yet, despite that, we still see that young people don't feel like it politics is very accessible for them.
Challenges in Political Education
00:10:00
Speaker
Yeah, um i think it's I think you're right. I mean, there is I think that provision of education from what I gather myself is quite patchy. um yeah So what you do, you know, some schools will do it great um and they'll, you know, have citizenship, democracy, education, um where young people, you know, get to understand about the rights they have um around um you know politics, media literacy, skills that they need, if you like, to understand the country around them.
00:10:31
Speaker
But others won't. And um it's perhaps one of those Cinderella subjects, um you know that doesn't get the priority it should do and our schools are kind of forced or rather kind of feel the need to focus on core curricular subjects you know the are the ones that they're going to at the end of the day get judged on um so I think um my view would be that something that is seen as being a little extra and is added on extra, i.e.
00:11:02
Speaker
citizenship education, democracy education, um shouldn't be. And it actually should be you know seen as a much more important part of the school curriculum um if we're going to to really kind of ensure young people feel part of society.
00:11:19
Speaker
And how do you think social media factors into considerations about lowering the voting
Media Trust and Literacy Among Youth
00:11:24
Speaker
age? Because your polling also showed that 49% of young people trust social media over traditional media as their main source of information. So I wondered if you felt like younger voters are going to be more at risk from disinformation and potentially being exposed to extreme views.
00:11:43
Speaker
Yes. i mean i think um I mean, I think social media, um in some ways, we shouldn't just always kind of reach for the negative, ah in my view. I think what it does do is at least it you know it's something that ensures that whether it's high or low quality information,
00:12:02
Speaker
does mean that there is a channel there that um can can ensure young people get plenty of plenty have political information coming through the door. That said, as you say, the risk of disinformation, misinformation is a big a big challenge.
00:12:15
Speaker
And again, I think that's um that only feeds back to the reason why we probably do need more and citizenship of education. For example, that would include um you know lessons on how to distinguish fake news from real news, how to source information, how do you go about um discovering whether something is real or isn't, and how do you um analyze something and not just take something at face value um but you know look for other opinions as well and and make your own mind up on the basis of ah a variety of opinions. That's what we're talking about here in terms of how
00:12:55
Speaker
ah the kind of citizenship of education, media education um that is necessary for for young people to get. Because, as I say, while social media has great opportunities, clearly there are problems with it too. And that's something that young people ah very conscious of.
00:13:13
Speaker
I think there's certainly the young people we speak to are very aware that they're living in this kind of maelstrom, this blizzard of information um that's just coming at them all the time.
00:13:25
Speaker
um And they are trying to find ways to navigate their way through that blizzard. And we need to we need to, you know, schools, I think, should be providing more help and for them to actually to actually do that, because it is clearly a problem.
00:13:38
Speaker
Yes, and I think it's difficult for people of all age groups as well. Yeah, course. To distinguish on social media. It is. i suppose the difference is is that, you know, those of us who are slightly older are still kind of using like legacy media in the way that young people now just don't. So...
00:13:53
Speaker
so um so it's So it's more likely to be something that is is is more challenging for the younger generation. The last time that the voting age was lowered was in 1969, when it dropped from 21 to 18.
00:14:07
Speaker
Do you think that we could see it drop even lower in future or for there to potentially be a cap introduced on voting age? I, my, my, my guess would be that's probably it, um, uh, in terms of the age range. I mean, there are some children's rights groups that think that we should, you know, scrap it all together. And essentially you should have, you know, everybody should be able to have the right to vote no matter what.
00:14:28
Speaker
But, um, my, my, I would guess this is, this is about it now. I mean, I, I don't know if you've got an international example of somebody, some countries where it's below 16, but. No, I don't actually. I think 16 is the lowest aware of. Yeah. And 25 the highest.
00:14:44
Speaker
Is that right? Gosh. Yes. Apparently in the United Arab Emirates. Oh, right, right. Okay. Um, and do you have any children yourself? and Yes, I do. Um, funnily enough, I was just, uh, as i was saying, um, I have three teenagers, one of whom will turn 16 few weeks before the Scottish elections in May of next year. So, uh, he will be 16 in about a month and about a month.
00:15:10
Speaker
Um, and we'll therefore be able to vote. We've registered him, um, so that he's able to vote next May. And um while I'm um a little bit skeptical that he's necessarily that interested in politics, he's far more interested in his PlayStation than politics. um you know One thing that has done is prompted a few conversations about what he might do.
00:15:33
Speaker
um And you know you never know, it might just trigger something in his mind about um his his kind of um rights and responsibilities come next May. I'm not holding out too much hope. Sorry. How do you feel about him having the ability to vote?
00:15:50
Speaker
Well, you know, there's a little bit of parental scepticism because he's he's my little boy and he's you know the youngest one of three. So um and maybe we with we have a tendency to think of him as being ah being a little bit young.
00:16:05
Speaker
um But, um you know, the beauty here is is that all he all his friends will also be un able to vote. You know, the school will be able to inform them about the choices that they've got on offer.
00:16:18
Speaker
And that's an opportunity for him at the age of 16 to take part in a big moment in our national life. And, you know, taking a step back, I think that's one of the really good things about post-16.
00:16:32
Speaker
It's saying to young people, you do have a stake. um You do have share in this country. albeit a very small one like the rest of us. um But you, like others, now are part of the the the democratic life of this country.
00:16:48
Speaker
And I think that's a very, very good message to be sending out to young people today. Thank you so much for your time, Eddie. My pleasure. I'm now joined by Lynette Thompson, an Associate Professor of Psychology at Northeastern University in London.
00:17:04
Speaker
Thank you for joining me, Lynette. And thank you for having me, Lily.
Adolescent Development and Voting Age
00:17:08
Speaker
thanks you welcome. I wanted to get a psychologist's perspective on this because one of the main counter arguments to lowering the voting age to 16 is that 16 year olds might not be mature enough to vote or knowledgeable enough.
00:17:22
Speaker
But is there any scientific basis for that? Well, in fact, the the scientific um evidence shows that 16 year olds are cognitively quite capable of um or voting.
00:17:38
Speaker
um But whether they have the maturity levels, whether they have the um life experience, um yeah that is another argument. So if we if we go back to the biological aspects of the brain and how the brain works um for the adolescent as opposed to the 18-year-old or the 21-year-old, we know that our brain develops from, um in simplistic terms, from the back to the front. Right? So...
00:18:08
Speaker
um And the front part of our brain, which is the prefrontal cortex is the last one to develop. Now, while the adolescent's brain is physically, um the the in terms of size and structure, the same size as the adult brain, it doesn't and only fully develops by the time they hit the mid-20s, around about 25 when it fully develops.
00:18:30
Speaker
So before the prefrontal cortex develops, which is the part that's most responsible for decision-making, planning, um what we call executive functioning, higher order thinking.
00:18:43
Speaker
ah Before that develops or is fully developed, the limbic system um is more active and the limbic system um develops earlier um than this prefrontal cortex. And in the limbic system, we have the amygdala, which is the part of the brain which just really controls emotion and is responsible for motion and things like risk-taking and um impulsivity.
00:19:07
Speaker
So that's why we find that 16-year-olds or adolescents will be more risk-taking, risk-taking behaviors. um They'll have mood swings um and they may have increased levels of aggression.
00:19:21
Speaker
So how does that come into the idea of a 16 year old voting? Does that mean that they might find it harder to make a decision that's rational and be more prone to impulsive decisions?
00:19:33
Speaker
So that's a very good question because while they may be more impulsive, um that is when they have to make decisions on the spur of the moment. what What psychologists call call cognition versus hot cognition.
00:19:47
Speaker
So hot cognition is when we have to make very impulsive decisions, right? But when it comes to something like voting, we're not voting on impulse. We're voting with um information at hand, we're voting with knowledge.
00:20:01
Speaker
And so one would say that they are actually voting under the umbrella of cold cognition, where they had time to think, where they had time to learn, where they time to gain that information.
00:20:14
Speaker
whether it is from family or from schools or from civic organizations or associations where they'd gathered that time. So they wouldn't make a decision in terms of voting um impulsively as they would with necessarily other decisions.
00:20:30
Speaker
um And that is why you'll find that there are arguments for a 16-year-old to vote because in that specific ah space where they are voting and where they're on their own in that ballot box,
00:20:42
Speaker
they may not necessarily be influenced by their peers where they may otherwise would have been. I think as a society, we tend to think of 18 as this cutoff point because it's the age of responsibility in many ways where you can get married without your parents' consent, you can drink alcohol, ah you could stand as a candidate for an election.
00:21:02
Speaker
But is there really a psychological or biological basis for that cutoff? No, there are. the The biology doesn't or ah physiology doesn't really show that there's a major difference between the 16 and the 18-year-old. Obviously, as we move from the adolescent brain to the period that I spoke about around the mid-20s, with every year we know that um the the prefrontal cortex is developing and that a um that opportunity or that ability to um have rational thought, to have that um decision-making and that executive functioning does increase.
00:21:44
Speaker
But the period between 16 and 18 would not be that markedly different unless the 16 and the 18-year-old's life experiences are markedly different.
00:21:56
Speaker
That is what would also play a role between the 16 and 18-year-old. um Yeah, so I think that i think that's the that would be the argument that some and some countries would use for the fact that we could easily lower the age.
00:22:12
Speaker
um Personally, i think that lowering the age probably more political than it is psychological um decision. um It does increase the voter base, but...
00:22:26
Speaker
um there isn't a real ah there isn't a real biological difference between that 18 and 16-year-old outside of the fact that the 18-year-old will have two more years of life experience.
00:22:41
Speaker
And so you may want to, the country may want to consider that and and feel that, well, we want to have um voters who have a little bit of more life experience and knowledge than someone who doesn't. And that would be the key difference between the two age groups.
00:22:58
Speaker
Yes, because you mentioned that the brain doesn't fully develop develop until you're in your mid-20s, but I'm guessing you're not in favour of raising the voting age to be in line with that.
00:23:08
Speaker
No, no, I'm not in favour of it raising the voting age um because I ah believe that 16-year-olds are still very impressionable. um And yes, I did mention the fact that if you're giving the right information, but they are still very impressionable.
00:23:25
Speaker
um They do have a strong sense of wanting to belong and still working on this on the identity. And so those things can also play a role in in the decisions that they make and voting could be one of those decisions.
00:23:39
Speaker
Yes. How do you imagine that could manifest itself in terms of wanting to belong and feeling that social pressure? ah what are these if If your friends are talking about voting for a certain party and you really um feel that this friendship group is important to you um and and there's discussion around voting and you thinking of voting for a different party, that may ah exclude you from that group.
00:24:06
Speaker
And your friends may see you as having different values and belief systems to them. and then not include you. And that inclusion on that or that um risk of being excluded is a very real risk. um And it's not a risk that a 16-year-old may want to take.
00:24:24
Speaker
and he And he or she may not be mature enough to say, well, these are my beliefs and my value system. This is who I vote for. This is who my parents vote for.
00:24:36
Speaker
And whether you like it or not, this is what I stand by. Does the 16-year-old have that strength and that maturity to put that out there to the friendship group and risk being excluded from that group? Mm-hmm.
00:24:52
Speaker
So it's really the social side of the 16-year-old's life and identity which might make it difficult to come to an independent decision here.
00:25:03
Speaker
Definitely, definitely. That may play a role. Not saying that would be true for all 16-year-olds, but that would definitely play a role, especially if their identity is not self-identity. their identity is not really fully formed um or they're still grappling with what their identity is.
00:25:21
Speaker
And if their identity is rather steeped in their friendship group, because a lot of them, their self identity is based on who they associate with.
00:25:33
Speaker
So if that is not really formed and cemented, that could be quite fragile. Yes, that's really helpful. Thank you so much for your time on this issue. um if it was up to you, do you think that you would lower the voting age to 16?
00:25:48
Speaker
As someone as as a someone who studies developmental psychology and teaches developmental psychology, um if it was up to me, I would not vote for, I would not be in favour of some of voting or lowering the voting age to 16.
00:26:03
Speaker
Yeah, I would not be in favor. Even though there's not a really big marked difference between a 16 and 18 year old's brain. I would still not be in favor of lowering it, no.
00:26:14
Speaker
Why is that?
00:26:17
Speaker
Merely because I think that at 16, there's still a lot of change in, there's constant change in emotions. And remember, though the hormones also play a role.
00:26:29
Speaker
It affects mood, it a affects decision making. And I think that because of this constant change, um I think they are not yet stable enough to make a decision to choose a party that's going to lead a country for the next five years.
00:26:47
Speaker
um That's just my opinion, that they they are not um they're not stable enough to make that decision for a long like a long-term decision. Okay, thank you. That's really helpful.
00:27:00
Speaker
And is that because it's harder for 16-year-old to think through the consequences of their decisions? Is there a psychological basis for that? um It's is that often they may make a decision today and re realize tomorrow that that wasn't the decision that they should have made now that arguably that may be the same for any other adult, but they go through that much more. um And it's much more, there's much more wave in the emotions.
00:27:32
Speaker
And because the decisions are so much based on the emotions, um it's like they may be making ah decision, you know, five days in a row, five different parties, they may decide they may, they may change their mind because they also,
00:27:48
Speaker
grappling with information that they get and how to process that. And every time they get new from information and proceed process that information, and may make um and may influence their decisions.
00:28:00
Speaker
Okay. So you think that it is possible for 16-year-olds to make informed decisions in the right conditions? Under the right conditions, yes. But your personal view is that lowering the voting age and means that there's a greater risk that people are going to be voting who maybe haven't thought through that decision as much or are influenced by peer pressure, things like that.
00:28:21
Speaker
great Okay. Thank you so much, Lynette. That's been fascinating. to Thank you, Lily. I'm now joined by Alex Nerton, a member of the Youth Parliament who's campaigned for a lower voting age.
00:28:33
Speaker
And crucially, Alex, you're 17. Yeah. yeah Thank you for joining us.
Youth Engagement and Advocacy for Voting Rights
00:28:38
Speaker
So, Alex, how did you feel when you heard that the government was planning to legislate to lower the voting age to 16?
00:28:44
Speaker
Oh, I mean, I was just at the moment, I i was overwhelmed um because I woke up to my mum on the phone, like waking me up, like telling me the news. So like, yeah, literally that morning was kind of crazy.
00:28:56
Speaker
um But yeah, my thoughts afterwards, just like I was just so thankful that this has now happened because this is something that the UK Youth Parliament have been campaigning for for 20 years now. So honestly, it just feels like it's a long time coming.
00:29:08
Speaker
Could you talk a little bit about your work with the National Youth Parliament? So what exactly is it? How does it work? And you chair a committee on votes for 16 year olds. Is that right? Yeah, yeah. So UK Youth Parliament or UKYP is a UK wide sort of network for young people to get involved, put themselves forward for elections, get voted in by young people.
00:29:32
Speaker
We have about 300 NYPs across the yeah UK. So we represent people up and down. ah the UK. And through this, you know, there's opportunities like annual conference, which is when we come together, explain what um our constituents want and what issues affect young people.
00:29:50
Speaker
ah Then we vote to see what our national focus is. So right now we're focusing on ah Vote 16 and period dignity. um So from that, we then have the campaign committee from which I'm a vice chair. I'm the chair of the Vote 16 one.
00:30:02
Speaker
ah We also have another one for one for period dignity. um But from that, we've now been able to influence decision makers and really get our voice heard. And is the idea with that that you don't have decision making power necessarily, but you can feed that up to politicians who can then take forward your policy ideas, things like that?
00:30:22
Speaker
Yeah, basically. I mean, as chair of the Vote 16 Committee, um we hear from representatives from all regions of the UK. ah That gets fed up, ah sort of up the chain to see what young people want.
00:30:35
Speaker
And then from that, we yeah we have our voice heard by lawmakers and decision makers. And when did you first become interested in politics? Oh, mean, part me thinks I've always been interested in politics.
00:30:48
Speaker
ah My mum's a teacher, so obviously I have an interest in education and how that's been affected. um But I got involved with Surrey Youth Cabinet in, think it was November 2022 now.
00:30:58
Speaker
So from that, I then heard about Youth Parliament and then put myself forward. And then now I'm here today talking to you. And why are you so passionate about 16 and 17 year olds getting the right to vote?
00:31:11
Speaker
Well, 16 and 17 year olds have been sort of ignored by politicians. You know, it's only really old people that vote. So because of that, we have a democracy which focuses policies on old people.
00:31:22
Speaker
And so young people, 16 and 17 year olds are being left behind when we should have a say on things that affect our present, but also our future, things like climate change, young people like 16, 17 year olds are going more affected by that than older people.
00:31:37
Speaker
And you're more politically engaged, I would say, than many adults. So is that something that sets you apart, do you think, from other 16 and 17 year olds? I mean, it's good question. Obviously, like, yeah, not many of my friends are in youth parliament, but...
00:31:52
Speaker
Yeah, I think young people really, you know, they don't get the credit they deserve for being as politically engaged as they are. You know, they might not be into party politics, but, you know, young people care a lot about social issues like climate change and the state of the world right now, international conflicts.
00:32:07
Speaker
These are all things that young people do actually care about. And I think now giving them a voice, you know, will now start engaging in conversations where young people can feel involved. Okay, because earlier in the episode, we heard from the John Smith Centre at Glasgow University, and basically they carried out a poll over summer of 516 to 17-year-olds.
00:32:27
Speaker
And the results found that young people were quite divided over whether they should get the vote. So 48% said they agreed that 16 and 17-year-olds should get the vote, 32% said disagreed and 20% didn't know.
00:32:41
Speaker
So what do you make of the fact that there is this sense among some young people that they're not ready to have the vote? Well, I think you just summed that up greatly. Young people don't feel like they're ready to vote because they don't have the political education that they deserve and need.
00:32:56
Speaker
This is why the UK Youth Parliament have been campaigning for political literacy. The idea that in schools UK-wide, we need to be teaching people about our democracy and the importance of it and the importance of voting and what that does and how our institutions work.
00:33:08
Speaker
These are all things that 16, 17-year-olds need to learn and grow up knowing so that we have a generation of people who... fundamentally understand how our institutions work and why their voice matters.
00:33:20
Speaker
So from your perspective, have you had much political education from school? Do you feel like that's the main place that you've been able to learn about politics? Or has it come from home? Yeah, no, a lot of it is school.
00:33:31
Speaker
um I mean, if I can shout out ah my political teacher, Mr. Conban, he also does ah like the PSHE lessons. So like ah life skills lessons, he manages all of that.
00:33:42
Speaker
So I think at my school, it's is is's quite good. But what we're learning is UK wide, there is massive differences in what you learn in school about politics. Yeah. And do you think that there therefore needs to be a more joined up way of young people being taught about politics?
00:33:58
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. ah Yeah. We need mandatory political education across the UK. um That's something that young people want. And we see that through youth parliament. I've been out I've had like several conversations about this at annual conference.
00:34:10
Speaker
And this is something that yeah young people really want because there are disparities in what is being taught about politics. And so if I was to distill your argument in favour of having votes for 16 and 17 year olds into one key message, what would that be? What's the strongest argument, do you think, in favour of lowering the voting age?
00:34:30
Speaker
Well, I mean, it's kind of simple. Young people just deserve a voice. There is nothing that fundamentally changes when you turn 18. i Because I'm in year 13, all my friends around me now turning like 18 years old So one of my friends came up to me the other day and it was his birthday over the weekend. And he said, oh, how do you feel now that I can vote and you still corn?
00:34:48
Speaker
um And I sort of said to him like, oh, yeah, that must be great. Like, can you let me in? And like, what's the secret now? Like, you must like have matured because now you're 18. You can vote. Like, what happened? Let me in on the secret. of And he just looked at me like all confused. But it goes back to this point that, you know, nothing fundamentally changes when you're 18 and 16, 17 year olds are affected by all the same decisions.
00:35:08
Speaker
So it's only fair that 16, 17 year olds can have their voice heard. So when it comes to thinking about 18 year olds, so we have that as the age of responsibility in our society in many ways, because that's the age you can drink alcohol, that's the age you can get married without your parents' consent, things like that.
00:35:24
Speaker
But do you think that it makes sense to have a different voting age if it becomes lower? Or do you think that we should be lowering the age of responsibility in all things to 16?
00:35:36
Speaker
No, um i don't think we should like lower the alcohol drinking age or anything like that. This is about ah giving young people a voice. So the age to vote in Ireland and Scotland is 16. 16 is becoming that number where you are seen in the eyes of the law as having that responsibility to have your voice heard.
00:35:57
Speaker
Do you think that the same argument could be made for people who are younger? So lowering the voting age further to bring more people into politics? Yeah, but we're seeing that 16 is becoming the new age. We see that across the UK and internationally.
00:36:12
Speaker
And you're somebody who's very in touch with young people in their opinion. So what kind of political issues do you think matter to young people the most? ah Yeah, I think definitely things like climate change, that is going to affect young people much more than old people because it's our issue that we're inheriting.
00:36:28
Speaker
But also international conflicts, even things like education. How is an 80 year old who hasn't been in education for decades more responsible to make decisions about education than young people who are actually affected by those decisions?
00:36:45
Speaker
Okay, and final question, Alex. Do you know what you want to do when you're older? Have you thought about what you might like to be? um I mean, it's corny, but I just want to help people. That's what I really care about. Can you see yourself going into politics?
00:36:59
Speaker
ah Probably. Okay, well, we can leave it there. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much. So, is lowering the voting age a positive step for our democracy?
Conclusion: Perspectives on Voting Age and Democracy
00:37:10
Speaker
Well, it remains to be seen. Lowering the voting age could increase democratic engagement once young people gain the vote and get a say on issues which matter them. Some experts think it will help to improve election turnout long term by engaging people in the democratic process younger in their lives.
00:37:27
Speaker
However, there are concerns about whether 16 year olds have the maturity to make a considered independent and fully informed decision. Something all our speakers agreed on was that if young people are to have the vote, they should also have access to educational resources which help them to feel better informed about politics.
00:37:45
Speaker
Democracy volunteers, the organisation behind the observations podcast which trains volunteers to observe elections, and make sure they're carried out in a free and fair way, has said its observers will be looking out for changes in behaviour at polling booths once the voting age has been lowered.
00:38:01
Speaker
For example, family voting, a practice where family members go into a polling booth together and try to direct how their relative is voting, could be exacerbated if parents accompany teenage children to vote.
00:38:15
Speaker
You've been listening to Observations. Today, you've heard from Eddie Barnes of the John Smith Centre at the University of Glasgow, Lynette Thompson, an Associate Professor of Psychology at Northeastern University, and Alex Nerton, 17-year-old member of the National Youth Parliament.
00:38:31
Speaker
I'm Lily Russell-Jones, your host. If you enjoyed today's episode, please like and subscribe. You can find us on YouTube at Observations Podcast. Thank you for listening.
00:38:52
Speaker
The Observations podcast is being brought to you by Democracy Volunteers, the UK's leading election observation group. Democracy Volunteers is non-partisan and does not necessarily share the opinions of participants in the podcast.
00:39:06
Speaker
It brings the podcast to you to improve knowledge of elections, both national and international.