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Local Elections in Limbo: England's 2025 Reorganisation Dilemma
17 Plays5 days ago
With dozens of English councils facing local government reorganisation, the government has given 63 authorities until 15 January to request a delay to May 2025 elections. In this episode, Lily Russell-Jones speaks with Peter Stanyon of the Association of Electoral Administrators about the unprecedented dilemma facing local democracy. Should elections proceed as planned, or should councils postpone to focus on reorganisation? The conversation explores the tension between democratic accountability and resource constraints, the Electoral Commission's strong objections to delays, and the real-world challenges facing electoral administrators caught in the middle. From the cost of democracy to concerns about councillors serving six-year terms without facing voters, this episode examines a critical moment for local governance in England.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Observations Podcast
00:00:10
Speaker
Hello, you're listening to Observations, a podcast where we talk about democracy, how it works, and how it could work better. I'm your host, Lily Russell-Jones.
Election Delays and Democratic Duty
00:00:20
Speaker
Dozens of local councils have been given the opportunity to request a delay to upcoming local elections.
00:00:26
Speaker
The government has given 63 councils until the 15th of January, the end of next week, to request a delay to local elections set to take place in May. The idea is that this will free up capacity so that councils can focus on local government reorganisation.
00:00:41
Speaker
While some councils argue that delaying would be a sensible move, which will allow them to free up capacity and focus on the smooth running of local services while they deliver reorganization, critics argue that elections could go ahead as planned and say councils have a democratic duty to ensure constituents have their say at regular intervals.
Interview with Peter Stenyon
00:01:01
Speaker
Today, I'm joined to discuss this by Peter Stenyon of the Association of Electoral Administrators, an organisation which encourages the consistent and efficient running of elections.
00:01:12
Speaker
Thank you for joining me, Peter. It's my pleasure. Were you surprised to see the government giving councils this chance to do request a delay to May elections? Yeah, more is more in terms of the timing. It was very late on and after the minister had said that the elections were planned to go ahead. We knew about the combined mayoral authority elections being postponed or deferred, I should say.
00:01:36
Speaker
um But when the news came out with regards to the local council elections, um it was just before Christmas. It was a bit of a surprise. um And obviously it's now down to those local authorities whether they wish to consider and make a request to defer those elections until later on the cycle.
00:01:54
Speaker
And could you tell listeners about the Association of Electoral Administrators, what it does and who it represents? Yeah, we represent those who deliver the election. So the electoral administrators in the councils who push the buttons, move the paper around, make sure polling stations are in place, arrange the count details...
00:02:13
Speaker
basically giving the returning officers the ability to do their statutory duties. So we represent those, over 2,000 members, ah both in um assisting government in terms of ah their policy directions, but also assisting the Electoral Commission and delivering training and things ourselves to make sure the electoral community is as best prepared as it can be.
Resource Pressures and Council Reorganisation
00:02:33
Speaker
And why might councils be struggling to deliver local elections alongside local government reorganisation? It's a difficult one. i think it's ah it's on the the wider context of local government because for a significant period there's been pressure, both resource-wise, money-wise, staffing-wise.
00:02:50
Speaker
As far as the elections are concerned, um the the plans are were are are to continue, depending on which local authority you're in. The fact the local authority itself has to come forward with its plans for that reorganisation down the line will be sucking resource out of certain areas.
00:03:07
Speaker
But whether that directly applies to the election seems is really down to each individual local authority. And you know you know in the areas elections are taking place, they will take place because the teams are being prepared to to do so within the the timetables that are have been long set.
00:03:23
Speaker
And could you briefly explain what will happen to the councils, which are being reorganized? Because this is quite relevant to elections. Lots of smaller councils might be absorbed into larger ones, and we could see the overall number of councillors being cut and some councils sort of ceasing to exist in their current form.
00:03:40
Speaker
ah Certainly councils will cease to exist in the current form. The size of councils, the shape of councils, um no one knows at this stage because clearly submissions have been made for the fast track areas. um There are other areas that are going forward now with their particular plans.
00:03:58
Speaker
It's down to consensus of opinion, but ultimately become a sector state decision in terms of what the new framework will look
Governance Changes and Efficiency Concerns
00:04:04
Speaker
like. But if you just look back in recent history, places like Bournemouth, Christchurch and Paul was four authorities, I believe, three or four authorities, that now it's one larger area. Buckinghamshire was certainly four authorities, it's now one larger area. So it it's about the the argument for the unitarisation of authorities, taking the county element out from the district, merging them together, is to do with efficiencies, is to cost savings, is do with the fact that individual residents will be liaising with their council, not one or two different levels of councils going forward. So it's a huge argument in terms of whether it's a good thing or a bad thing. but As far as the actual delivery of the electoral process is concerned,
00:04:43
Speaker
the elections will still take place to whatever body it is delivered by however many administrators it's required to actually deliver for those new individual local authority areas. But what that framework will look like, I don't think anyone knows at this stage.
00:04:56
Speaker
Okay. And what are you hearing from members in terms of how the process of reorganisation is going? Do you understand it to be something that's particularly resource intensive inside some councils or is it something going on in the background?
00:05:10
Speaker
It's, again, a bit of a jigsaw across, depending on the individual authorities, but it is definitely resource intensive. There are two ways about that, because there's an awful lot of background information needed. But again, if I focus in on the electoral side of of matters, just think of somewhere like Hampshire, for example, some authorities elect by third, some elect by all-out elections, some authorities have significant parish councils, some don't.
00:05:34
Speaker
It's says a real mishmash, what are the cycles of elections and things? They are all the things that will be testing the mettle of those on the electoral side, on the governance side of local authorities, to make sure that when um the the new authorities come into being, you can actually elect to them in the first place, on the wider perspective, then govern them going forward in terms of what the council looks like in in that way. So again, it is definitely resource intensive, but we as an association, alongside colleagues in MHCLG and the Electoral Commission, primarily ourselves,
00:06:09
Speaker
have been trying to pick the brains of those who been through this process in the recent past to share that with the wider electoral community to make sure that they understand the sort of questions to ask, the challenges ahead, and then make sure that that transition to whatever those new authorities look like is as smooth as possible for everybody involved in the process.
00:06:28
Speaker
And given that we don't know exactly what the new unitary councils might look like, um as you said, we might not know how many councils will be included, and be absorbed into sort of larger groupings and things like that. Does it seem sensible to you then to delay elections?
Balancing Democracy and Costs
00:06:44
Speaker
ah It's a difficult one to to to consider because in certain areas, it was counter-council elections were deferred from last year, so is it right to again defer them second time?
00:06:54
Speaker
It's the argument between the democrats the the the democratic viability of a local authority. You balance in certainly and certainly recently in the the trade press, in one local authority, there's both sides of the argument was given about the cost savings, to not running elections against actually, but then that means that people, that your old councils, when does democracy have to be, have to take place to make sure there isn't that democratic deficit. um So it's an argument that is really a policy argument, it's a political argument.
00:07:25
Speaker
All the electoral administration and the returning officer want is to get that certainty, are we actually going to the polls on the 7th of May or not? Because the the time is now ticking, it's only the the end of March when notice of election goes up.
00:07:37
Speaker
A lot of work needs to be done in terms of the delays in those areas if that is indeed what happens. OK, well, let's look at some of the numbers. So the Observations podcast contacted dozens of the councils out of the 63 which have been given this option to request a delay. We've heard from 28 councils, four, including East Sussex County Council, West Sussex County Council, Preston City Council Kelton and Borough Council said that they will be requesting a delay to local elections.
00:08:06
Speaker
But 12 councils have said that they want elections to go up ahead as planned, including Norfolk County Council. And 12 has said they have not yet reached a decision. So they're they're waiting to have a conversation with councillors this week or next week to decide what to submit to government. But do you know why there is a split between councils who are struggling to deliver these local elections alongside reorganisation and the others which seem to think they do have capacity for both?
00:08:33
Speaker
I guess it's down to each individual local authority. And I do think a lot of this comes down to that argument about resources versus the um the fact the local authority may not be there in one year, two year, three years time.
00:08:45
Speaker
So so is said it's a tough one to call um because we know that money is tight. And that that is really the driving force behind those things. Certainly there were some figures put in again, in the trade press today that sort of mirrors the figures that you you found yourself.
00:08:59
Speaker
But I find it quite interesting that um and a number have actually already said, no, we are not going to defer. They they believe the Democratic need to give the electorate the chance of deciding what their local authority is for the time being, is more important than the savings that may well come forward. So it really is quite difficult to put a finger on why some authorities are going one way and some are going the other way in terms of the size of complexity and and the like. It's a local political decision when it comes down to it.
Decision-Making Authority on Election Delays
00:09:30
Speaker
Okay. And do you have any expectation of the number of councils that you think will be seeking a delay overall? No, only what's been reported in that that effectively we know that three authorities have said that they are not going ahead. um Five have included in their submission, as far as eight that that were being reported today.
00:09:53
Speaker
there's 16 in the list not disclosed. So there's lots of things in there. 15 are saying they're probably going to go ahead. Or 24 are saying they're going to go ahead. So at the end of the day, is is it's a difficult...
00:10:06
Speaker
ah feel in In some respects, it's quite reassuring from a democratic perspective that so many of that 63 have actually come forward already and said, we are running elections because that is the the democratic side of things.
00:10:19
Speaker
um Others have taken the decision, I think, for for local reasons why they wouldn't go ahead. So it's a really tough one to call. or You've got one side against the other on on this sort of argument.
00:10:30
Speaker
And do you think that it's a decision that should have been left to councils rather than the government making a blanket decision about whether to delay or go ahead? Just thinking and the leader of Essex County Council made a statement about this where he said that it should actually be up to the government to cancel elections, not councils. So perhaps feeling like the buck has been passed on to councils who might have been put in a difficult position because of reorganization to then be the ones to say, OK, we need a delay.
00:10:56
Speaker
it kind of it kind of puts the responsibility on each individual council? um Far be it for me to comment on passing buck. But I think um it's a very... The government has put themselves in a very difficult position, i I believe, because of the fact that it's not an all-out. Like back in 1972, which was the last major reorganisation of local government, everything happened at once in one one fell swoop.
00:11:21
Speaker
This isn't the case. It's more of a... let's invite local authorities to consider the changes. um This is a by-product of that, I think, at the end of the day. it would be far, far easier if there was one size fitted the whole um sector, but it would be a very brave decision Secretary of State would come to to say that we are cancelling elections in 63 areas while we do that reorganisation. So it's a really tough one. But I think, to be fair to local authorities, they...
00:11:49
Speaker
in terms of the decision they've got to come to, it will have to be a decision well thought through as to what are the benefits of deferring or actually going ahead. um So in some respects, there are positives our local decision is being made rather than Whitehall making a a call in that way. Sorry, a very non-committed answer on that one. Apologies
Financial Impacts and Democratic Processes
00:12:06
Speaker
about that. No, that's fine. Good to hear your thoughts on it.
00:12:09
Speaker
Peter, one of the arguments in favour of delaying is the costs because these new bigger councils are supposed to be up and running in the majority of cases by April 2028. And then elections for those are expected in May 2027. So West Sussex County Council has made the argument that if it held an election in May 2026 and then a unitary council election in May 2027, followed by a mayoral election in May 2028, the cost of that would be £9 million pounds to the Sussex taxpayer.
00:12:39
Speaker
So do you think there's a legitimate argument against holding local elections this year because of the costs associated and the fact that there will then be more elections potentially the following year? That's the decision they've come to. um i would turn that on his head slightly and say, what the cost of democracy?
00:12:56
Speaker
I think it's fair to say that there is a balancing argument in terms of democracy isn't cheap. So when have one election, five elections, ten elections over a period... um I would be, being ah being a Democrat myself, I would actually rather spend that money and make sure that the yeah um that that the elections take place, because ultimately then it comes down to the political will of those in in the areas to be um but to be seen in terms of the the bodies that govern them.
00:13:24
Speaker
But again, it's a really tough one to call because, as I say, democracy isn't cheap and every efficiency is brought into the process. and It comes more the wider modernisation type of arguments in terms of how how do we deliver elections in the UK? Should we not be looking at um changing the way we do things to to make it more efficient?
00:13:43
Speaker
But that's a and a bigger argument that will end up um having to be debated by those who make the decisions in terms of legislation.
Criticism of Government's Delay Option
00:13:50
Speaker
Well, I think someone who would agree with you on the point that you just made about the importance of democracy is Vijay Rangarajan, who is the chief executive of the Electoral Commission, so the elections watchdog. And he's made a very strong statement about the government's decision to give this option of delaying to councils. So what did you make of his statement?
00:14:11
Speaker
It's a very strong statement from the the Commission, and probably one of the strongest ones that I've seen during my my my workings with the Commission. But I think what Vijay has said is is touching a lot of the real challenges around the fact that we expect elections to take place.
00:14:28
Speaker
A good democracy will have elections. There are these mitigating circumstances that, um ah you know as we've we've as we've talked about previously, has been left to local authorities to make their case to the Secretary State. Let's be absolutely clear, it will still be the Secretary of State making that decision, but the evidence has to be provided to justify a reason for delay.
00:14:48
Speaker
But, you know, as I say, I think generally we're very supportive of the fact that elections should only be deferred in exceptional circumstances. And in the past, that's been because of foot and mouth disease, because of COVID, because of lots of external factors that did affect elections.
00:15:04
Speaker
Is it the case that reorganisation of local government is is justifiably at the same level? Commission clearly feel no. um We can understand why, but um I think we would lean on the side of Yeah, the Commission said it pretty well there, that there are concerns because of the legitimacy of of the electoral process.
00:15:22
Speaker
Okay, and do you think that's particularly the case for the sort of councils which have already had delays to their elections last year? So, for example, Essex County Council, it last held its local elections in 2021. They were meant to go ahead in May 2025, but they were delayed. They could be delayed again, although Essex County Council has said it won't be asking for a delay this time. But it means that in some seats, potentially, councillors will have been sitting for six years without facing re-election.
00:15:51
Speaker
and That's a concern because the the the basic premise is his four-year term of office. Obviously, Parliament is just longer than that at the will will of the Prime Minister now. But it's four years. um And in the in the case that you've quoted, it's not the only County Council in that particular scenario.
00:16:07
Speaker
six, seven years is an awful long time between the two electoral processes. Now, that is the debate, the argument, the points being made by those um who are averse to the the delays, because it is about the democratic legitimacy of the people being elected to that particular body. i think I, we will fall on that side of the fence, because we do feel there needs to be that refresh of of um making sure the local councils do represent the areas that are that that they've been elected to. um So there is a massive concern if it goes on for too long, maybe five years, yeah. Beyond that, you begin to wonder, should it take place in any case? Okay.
00:16:47
Speaker
And thinking about this timeline for local council reorganisation.
Benefits of Shorter Election Cycles
00:16:51
Speaker
So in Surrey, there's an accelerated timeline, but in the other areas where this is happening, so I think there are 204 councils which are included in this local government reorganisation.
00:17:01
Speaker
They're supposed to be operational, the union unitary councils by April 2028. And the expectation is that there would be an election held in May 2027 to decide who will be on those councils effectively. But that does mean that if elections are held in 2026, people are only going to be sitting for, say, a year before they're looking to be re-elected again. So do you think that there is this argument that it's just sensible to wait?
00:17:28
Speaker
well I can answer understand the argument, but I'd also um make a suggestion that... um that The scenario you gave is only as a result of reorganisation. reorganisation didn't take place, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. so I think it's one of the by-products of the fact that the the the decision has been made um to simplify the local government network, um positively, negatively. That's another argument that will be be being played out and has been played out in in the House of Commons.
00:18:03
Speaker
But I think the the bottom line is that there will never be an easy transition from one system to another. There will always be the element. The debate is, do you have a one-year electric period or do you have a seven-year electric period?
00:18:16
Speaker
I think, you know, at the end of the day, the world is fast-moving. It's probably better to have a shorter period than it is a longer period. It also maintains the knowledge of the electorate and how they participate in that electoral process, because at the end of the day, there's a lot of um concentration of parliamentary, UK parliamentary general elections.
00:18:34
Speaker
Well, actually there's lots of other elections in between as well that actually mean that elect voters are able to participate and engage with the state at the various different levels that are there. So from your perspective, you think that it's important for elections to go ahead because that defends democracy and this idea that councillors will only be sitting for a certain term and then there will be an election again and you need to give them that mandate from the people.
00:18:58
Speaker
On a very simple basis, yes, but you have to balance that against, you know, ah are the costs prohibitive, sorry, I can't even say the word now, and that will make that more difficult to go forward. So, but going back to the statement made by the Commission, um it's about what's right in democracy, what is the right thing to do in terms of maintaining that trust between the state, if we want to put in that broad context, and the electorate, at what point does that get stretched and broken in terms of the t trust between those particular bodies?
00:19:29
Speaker
OK, and do you have any closing thought on this topic? Is there anything you'd like listeners to take away?
Importance of Timely Election Decisions
00:19:35
Speaker
I think it's just ah the the is that those who have heard me speak before about the whole electal elections process, it's about the certainty. I think everybody's crying out for...
00:19:45
Speaker
um the decisions to be made um ah clearly and quickly so that actually we can get on with either delivering the elections or um you know ah pulling back for whatever length of period it will be that's that's there. and We know the 15th January deadline is is coming forwards.
00:20:02
Speaker
Decisions will need to be made very quickly. and We understand that orders for delays will need to be in place think at the latest early February in time for the to prevent the elections taking place because, I say, the election kicks off on the 30th of March. So it's really about, the from from any local government official, it's about give us the certainty and we will deliver whether that's a positive, we are running elections, or a negative that says, no, we're not. don't mean that's a positive negative, but in terms of, yes, we are going ahead, or no, we're not, because at the moment there's still that level of confusion as to whether...
00:20:37
Speaker
the work needs to be done to make sure that people can go to the ballot box on the 7th of May. Just on that, how much work does go into preparing for an election? So how many months ahead of an election would you like to know that it's definitely going ahead? And when would the work on that election begin for administration? Some of the listeners podcast will have heard of the Gould principle. And this came out of the Scottish referendum some years ago, where Sir Ron Gould, who undertook an inquiry, said no changes should be made to electoral law within six months of the election. So in terms of preparations for an election, there'll be the electoral registration canvas that takes place through the autumn for the for the the following May elections.
00:21:16
Speaker
Work commences on elections at the latest on the 1st December of the year before, so six-month leading period. to to that process. So in the areas even where the local authorities have come out and we don't want to run elections, um work will still have been done to make sure the polling stations are in place,
00:21:34
Speaker
but know provisional bookings on count venues, just warning the staff they might be needed, be unlikely, but there's a chance. So it becomes more difficult for those particular areas.
00:21:45
Speaker
Those areas where there's a complete uncertainty, they are going full guns blazing in terms of they're expecting to run an election. And as happened last year, quite late in the day, they may need to pull the pull the plug and say, OK, guys, we don't need polling stations, we don't need count venues, we don't need the staff.
00:22:01
Speaker
turn off the contract with Prentice, things like that going forward. So I think it's that certainty element about whether or not the election is taking place, regardless of whether it's positive or negative decisions being made up by local authorities going forwards.
00:22:17
Speaker
OK, well, thank you so much for your time, Peter. That's all been very interesting.
Conclusion and Feedback
00:22:20
Speaker
my pleasure You've been listening to Observations and I've been your host, Lily Russell-Jones. If you want to share your views on anything that we've discussed in today's episode or you're concerned about election delays in your local area, get in touch with us over email.
00:22:35
Speaker
You can find us on observations.podcast at democracyvolunteers.org or leave us a comment on YouTube. You can find us at Observations Podcast with no spaces. That's all from me. Thank you so much for listening.
00:22:59
Speaker
The Observations podcast is being brought to you by Democracy Volunteers, the UK's leading election observation group. Democracy Volunteers is non-partisan and does not necessarily share the opinions of participants in the podcast. It brings the podcast to you to improve knowledge of elections, both national and international.