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Episode 52: Erica + Jon - A Case Study in Pivoting Successfully
145 Plays5 years ago
Today’s guest are brand photographers Erica + Jon and we’re chatting about how they successfully pivoted from wedding photography to brand photography, and how specializing has allowed them to become much more profitable as a business.
Erica + Jon have a pretty incredible client roster featuring businesses like the Chicago White Sox. There are a number of practical takeaways in this episode for any business who is looking to pivot or further specialize in whatever they do.
Erica + Jon are a husband and wife brand photography team that partner with commercial and personal brands to plan, style and intentionally create compelling imagery for marketing. Their work has appeared on billboards, storefront signs and magazine spreads across the country.
For show notes and additional resources, check out https://daveyandkrista.com/btb-erica-jon-episode-52.
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Transcript
The Power of Brand Photography
00:00:06
Speaker
actively sells for your business on a scale that, you know, sales staff, they could never match. You know, it speaks for you 24-7, 365, and so it's constantly preaching your brand's message to potential clients.
Introduction to the Show & Guests
00:00:23
Speaker
Welcome to the Brands at Book Show, where we help creative, service-based businesses build their brands and find more clients. I'm your host, Davy Jones.
00:00:36
Speaker
Today's guests are brand photographers Erica and John and we're chatting about how they successfully pivoted from wedding photography to brand photography and how specializing has allowed them to become much more profitable as a business. Erica and John have a pretty incredible client roster featuring businesses like the Chicago White Sox.
00:00:54
Speaker
and there are a number of practical takeaways in this episode for any business who is looking to pivot or further specialize in whatever they do. Be sure to check out the show notes at DavyandChrista.com for the resources we mentioned during the episode, and I'd like to hear from you about what kind of content you'd like to see on the Branchette Book Podcast as we move forward. I'd also like to know what episodes have you enjoyed most so far and why. To leave your feedback, head on over to the DavyandChrista Facebook page and send us a message.
Erica and John's Journey to Brand Photography
00:01:21
Speaker
Now, onto the episode.
00:01:26
Speaker
Well, I'm here with Erica and john brand photographers out in Arizona. And thanks guys for joining me for this podcast episode. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having us, David. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I've got to know Eric and john over the course of let's say, you know, last four to six months or so we've been doing some business coaching together. And I think we were connected. I think Amy and Jordan connected us, right?
00:01:48
Speaker
That's right. We were looking for a little bit of coaching, a little bit of guidance, and he said, I've got your guide, Davey Phillips. You got to connect with him. Yeah. He didn't skip a beat. He said, I know who I'm going to send you to. And it was you. That's awesome. Well, super flattering. But
00:02:03
Speaker
I've had the privilege of working with Eric and John over the last few months. I've had some insight into exactly what they're doing and it's just awesome. I'm excited to dive into a lot of that and for everybody to hear their story and what they've been able to do as they've transitioned into becoming or to focusing on brand photography. That's what we're going to be talking about today.
00:02:24
Speaker
We're going to talk a little bit about their story and their business as brand photographers, but I also want to dive into talking about why brand photography is important for people to invest in.
The Importance of Investing in Brand Photography
00:02:35
Speaker
I was just talking to Erica and John about this, but we just relaunched our website. As we did that, we scheduled a brand photography session with a photographer out here. I think investing in that just makes
00:02:47
Speaker
especially when you're redesigning your website, made that process so much better, you know, having new images, new fresh images for the website and then images that we can use in social media going forward. So I'm a big believer in it and I'm excited to hear what kind of wisdom you guys have to share about how to make the most of a brand photography session. That's a lot for me. I want to hear from you guys. Tell us a little bit about your story and how you got into photography and how that all eventually led to where you are right now.
00:03:17
Speaker
Yeah, so we first started photography as a side hustle. John had a full-time job working for Caterpillar. And in the beginning, we really just took photos of anything and everything that somebody needed a camera pointed at. Whether it paid or not. Sometimes it paid, sometimes it didn't, but we were just wanting to get our feet wet into everything and just really start building our portfolio.
00:03:40
Speaker
Yeah, you know, like Erica said, I was working a full time job. I found myself slowly having to leave work to go do photo sessions, which was a little bit of, uh, okay, we're going to have to do something different here. We're going to have to make a decision. Are we doing this photography thing or is this going to stay a side hustle? So, you know, we decided to model our business.
00:03:59
Speaker
After some of the great photography couples we saw out there and naturally a lot of those were in the wedding industry. There's a lot of education there for wedding photographers. And so we became Erica and John, the luxury wedding photography couple and moved back to Arizona to go full time with our business and really for a solid year.
00:04:17
Speaker
I mean, that was our focus. That's what we pursued. That's what our networking was all about. It was weddings, weddings, weddings. Yep. And I think that – I mean, that's interesting that you point that out. I never really thought about it that way, but there is a ton of education out there and resources and workshops available for wedding photographers. But there's not – as I think about – just off the top of my head at least, I can't think of a ton of education in other
00:04:41
Speaker
really other niches within photography. I mean, I know some exist. I feel like there's been, there's a lot more in the way of resources for other stuff, maybe now. But certainly, I do feel like there's a ton of education opportunity out there for wedding photography. So it makes sense, I guess, to start there.
00:04:58
Speaker
Yeah, we'd see it, and it's like, oh, this is so pretty. This looks good. They can make their Instagram feed look amazing. So this is it. This is what we're going to shoot, too. And who doesn't want to shoot high-end weddings? I mean, come on. That's a great thing.
00:05:12
Speaker
Yeah, and I think for wedding photography, what's interesting is I think there's at least this perception out there that I guess in order to make any money, you really need to be shooting weddings or that's where most of the money is. And maybe that's not a perception. Maybe I'm making that
Transition from Weddings to Brand Photography
00:05:28
Speaker
up. But how did you all... I mean, I'm sure you saw the opportunity that there is with shooting weddings for potentially thousands of dollars a session. So what started making you guys think this is really not where you want to focus
00:05:42
Speaker
you want to go the brand commercial route? For sure. As we were pursuing weddings full-time for about a solid year after we had switched to full-time, we just realized something just wasn't right. Things weren't clicking quite the way we wanted them to be. We had this really weird thing going on that nobody really knew about, which was we were shooting a lot of other things that had nothing to do with weddings. We were shooting food for restaurants, cakes for bake shops. We were shooting people for personal brands. We were showing none of it because
00:06:12
Speaker
we're thinking to ourselves, you know what, the potential bride we're trying to attract isn't going to be too interested in a plate of pasta, which maybe actually now that I'm saying that out loud, that might not be the most true thing in the world because who's not interested in a plate of pasta. But it didn't fit the brand that we had. And so we just chose instead of trying to work it in, we chose to just sweep it to the side, say awesome, we're glad we have some of the side work while we're building our business. But then it clicked. We had this like light bulb moment.
00:06:41
Speaker
And I actually looked at our financials, and I looked at all of the weddings we had booked for the year, and then all of the income we'd made from all these other sessions we were shooting, and we didn't even know what to call them at the time, right? We were just like, oh, it's just like business stuff. We were like, this is the food. Food and business, and yeah. But we realized we had way more income from the other sessions we were doing already than we did with weddings on the books for the year. And we're going, wait a second. Maybe the market is trying to tell us,
00:07:09
Speaker
Actually, maybe the market is screaming at us that this is something we should look a little more heavily into. Yeah, absolutely. As you started to make that transition though, because weddings, I assume, even though you look at your numbers and you see all this revenue coming from the other stuff, I put that in air quotes because you're not sure what even to call it at that point, there is still some revenue coming from weddings.
00:07:33
Speaker
What made you think, okay, we can go out and replace that with this other stuff? What put you over the edge in making that transition? That was a little bit of a process and that was a lot of back and forth for us for weeks, if not months. We sensed this transition coming. I think for me, it was very clean, cut and dry. I looked at the financials and I'm like, hey, we need to double down on this stuff.
00:08:00
Speaker
for Erica especially, it was a lot more of an emotional decision. Yeah, it was definitely more like an emotional roller coaster for me because who doesn't love a beautiful couple with an Arizona sunset and like the glowy desert light. And it's just everything that I had gained my education based on. And so I was like, awesome, now I can do this. And so when we drove away from our final engagement session, I told Ron,
00:08:26
Speaker
like I started to tear up just because I was like, I love that so much. It's so fun for us. And we love these
Finding a Clear Identity in Photography
00:08:33
Speaker
couples. And I love just the details that go into engagements and weddings. So it was it was a difficult decision for me to fully get on board with she she eventually about
00:08:46
Speaker
I don't know, at least a month into talking about this going back and forth because we knew we couldn't do both. We knew we couldn't do weddings and brand photography. We wanted to really focus on one thing and that's what we were known for. That ultimately stems from hearing a client of ours describe us in a referral in front of us as, hey, this is Erica and John.
00:09:05
Speaker
They have a camera and they shoot like food and couples and weddings and businesses and buildings and real estate and we were like melting in place going, oh, that's not the greatest thing ever.
00:09:22
Speaker
But it's so good that you were self-aware about that. And what's so interesting, I just actually this morning, I recorded an interview with Shante Grant of Because of Zoe and she's a maker and primarily Bose for young girls. And she was talking about that process of eliminating and really focusing on something and just be more singular and focus and how that's led to a lot of growth in her business by actually cutting out other products.
00:09:49
Speaker
Yes. And so it's really interesting to hear you all say the same thing by, you know, by hearing that referral that you're getting in real time and saying, okay, we really got to focus so that you become so that when somebody mentions brand photography, now it's Oh, you have to go see Erica and john, you know, and how powerful that is, as opposed to being the person that kind of dabbles into everything. Exactly. Yeah. So, you know, months, at least a month into that kind of back and forth, Erica, finally, I think she was getting ready in the morning. And she called me into our room and said,
00:10:20
Speaker
I know what we need to do. I said what like tell me like this is you're having an epiphany. She says, we need to let go of everything and focus on brand photography. And I'm like, sweet, because I'm in the same spot. So that's ultimately back to your question. It took a while, but I think
00:10:39
Speaker
looking at the logistics, looking at the financials, and then dealing with the emotional journey of what that meant, letting go of what we'd already built and what we were known for to that point. Once we finally crossed those hurdles, that's when that transition was fully made and we just doubled down.
00:10:55
Speaker
Yeah, and I think ultimately that transition paid off, but not to jump ahead in the story. As you made that, so you make the decision, as you make that decision, what were sort of the biggest frustrations in pivoting and focusing just on brand photography? You know, for us, it really felt like we were entering into
Challenges in Brand Photography
00:11:13
Speaker
something new that, you know, brand photography has been done, and it's been done for a long time. I mean, you see billboards with images, you see
00:11:22
Speaker
you know, product boxes with images, see magazine spreads with images, but it was nothing that we'd ever really seen modeled well by other photographers. Kind of back to what we were talking about in the beginning about there being so much education around wedding photography or even high school seniors or newborns, but there really wasn't anything in the space. So, you know, we really felt like it was trial and error, which really led to constant frustration for us because we would get an opportunity
00:11:48
Speaker
we would tee it up, we would put ourselves at a price point and set the shoot up for something we thought would be really successful, only to come to the shoot, execute it, and then walk away feeling like we really missed something here. So we were constantly just juggling this idea of how do we make this work, how do we make this apply to clients, how do we meet all of the needs that people are coming to us with and still have a successful business that isn't all over the place.
00:12:15
Speaker
Yeah, what's really interesting about you two is as I feel like you bring this relational aspect to, just by nature of being a husband and wife team too, to brand photography, which I think you more commonly see in something like wedding photography. I just can't think of the many personalities around brand and commercial photography like one sees in wedding photography. Now, we have a background in wedding photography, so maybe that's just because I'm not as familiar with the brand and commercial photography world.
00:12:43
Speaker
But I think in some ways, you all certainly bring a unique background into that space. Well, thank you. We've heard that from others too. Erika is constantly the one looked to for styling advice and all those types of things on a session because if it was just me and the pictures would not look as pretty. So yeah, no, it's having that dynamic, I think bringing it into the branding world. Like you said, it's unique, but I think it really
00:13:08
Speaker
It allows us to serve our clients really well because I can't look at pretty things and style them out quite as well as Erica can. And some of the technical aspects with lighting and things like that are more in my strong suit. So we're really able to balance each other out well.
00:13:21
Speaker
Yeah. And it's a difference that we add to the commercial branding side of things just because we don't just show up to shoot. I mean, we can, that's something we do. We'll just come in and we'll shoot whatever it is that our client has prepared. But a lot of times our clients will hire us to plan and style their session. So it's just really fun to be able to add that as an option too, with the branding side of photography.
00:13:45
Speaker
Yeah and I mean I remember talking with you guys early on in our coaching experience about that and me thinking that was just such a wonderful value add that you all can bring to a branding or product shoe is that you can actually do the styling stuff you can give tips on.
00:14:00
Speaker
on wardrobe, you can just completely take it off the hands of the business. And that's something, unfortunately, Krista is a lot better at that kind of stuff than I am, so she handled that for our branding shoot. But certainly, if it was just me in the business, I wouldn't even know where to start. So I think that's just such a wonderful value add that you can add for people.
00:14:23
Speaker
What did you all do? What are some of the things that you did to make this a successful transition? So again, not to give away sort of the end of the story, but you all have worked, and not that it's the end of the story, but you all have worked with some really incredible brands. So what are some of the things that you did to kind of get over the hump, so to speak, in making the transition from wedding photography to brand photography?
Coaching and Mentorship's Role in Transition
00:14:44
Speaker
Honestly, yeah. So making that transition really, there were two key parts for us that helped us make that transition successfully. One of them
00:14:53
Speaker
was coaching with you. That was a huge, huge moment for us. We actually left the United Conference last year, both looking at each other saying the first thing we need to do when we leave this conference is figure out a business mentor, a business coach, because we knew we had big dreams and we knew we had a vision and an idea of what we wanted to create. But sometimes it's really hard when you're face to face with it to really get outside and
00:15:18
Speaker
to have different perspective and ask yourself the challenging questions. And I think that's one of the biggest takeaways we have in working with you as a business coach, was you really challenged us on our process, challenged us on what we do with the initial inquiry and kind of what we were wrestling with, with understanding that all of these branding sessions and client needs were so unique that, you know, like a three-tiered pricing structure just didn't meet everybody's needs. So how do we get that inquiry beyond the email to really understanding what they need?
00:15:48
Speaker
Just those tools and resources you helped us consider and put in place in our process, honestly, I think took our customer experience on the front end from, Hey, I think I might want to work with Eric and John. What's this stuff about to actually booking them and made it a completely different experience for our clients. And that was a huge hurdle for us to jump because we would consistently feel like we'd get an inquiry. We would need more information to price it effectively, but we would never get a response.
00:16:14
Speaker
And that was something that, you know, just face to face with it. We couldn't figure out why the heck aren't people responding to us? They must hate us. And so honestly, the input you had in helping us take a step back and look at it from an outside perspective, gosh, that was that was crazy helpful. And I feel like with that process, the way it runs today, I mean, I just I've had seven different consultations this week.
00:16:37
Speaker
And it's been amazing. We walk away, and that really gives us a chance on the phone doing a phone consultation, which is the process we ended up implementing into the business. Gosh, it just allows us to instantly develop a rapport and relationship with these potential clients and sell ourselves upfront. And it's done amazing things for us on that.
00:16:57
Speaker
Yeah, well, I mean, I really appreciate hearing that for sure. And I'm a big believer just in coaching for that reason. I just think that having an outside perspective is so valuable because sometimes when you're in it, you can't see the forest for the trees, right?
00:17:13
Speaker
It's just sometimes harder to understand, okay, well, we've been doing this way, why? And I think that's really the value of coaching is just somebody coming in and questioning some of those things, giving a little bit of advice when necessary, but just really encouraging people to reflect and think maybe outside the box on different solutions. And for people to come in and say, even on things that you're not thinking about and just say, okay, well, why are you doing it that way?
00:17:37
Speaker
So I'm glad to hear that the experience has been so fruitful for you guys. But a big piece of investing in coaching is actually just doing the work yourself. So you guys are people who right away took advantage of me as a resource and actually putting the work. And I know you guys would send over things to me to take a look at.
00:17:59
Speaker
in between our calls even. So that kind of stuff goes a long way. Like coaching's not some sort of miracle pill. You guys actually did the work and got it done. And it's been awesome to watch for sure.
Aligning Pricing with Industry Standards
00:18:12
Speaker
But there's another part to this, right? You said two parts. So that was one. What's the other? Yeah, the other thing we really needed to get our heads around was pricing in the commercial industry.
00:18:23
Speaker
Our entire background was family portraits and weddings. It's kind of a one price fits all for the most part for families. Different package options. A few different package options for weddings. I mean, there's not a whole lot of variability in wedding offerings. The commercial industry, the scope and scale can change from a small business needing social media imagery to a large corporation needing images that are gonna be plastered on billboards across the US. And so we were struggling with
00:18:53
Speaker
How do we respond to this? Again, there was nowhere really to look for education in that space. And we really felt like this was a huge area in the commercial industry to really make additional income, was understanding how to price yourself right and then how image licensing worked. And so we sought out and invested in some education in, it's normally a real secretive kind of side of the industry, but we did end up finding someone who would kind of coach us and mentor us in that space a little bit.
00:19:22
Speaker
And that really was the next, I think, huge turning point for us in understanding how to effectively price some of these jobs now that, you know, large marketing agencies are coming to us with it because one of the takeaways we had from that was if you're not presenting your quote and your pricing structure in a commercial way, you're not even going to be considered. So understanding that was, I think, a second huge hurdle in that transition for us. That was really a pain point until we came to the understanding that allowed us now to be able to
00:19:50
Speaker
price and quote those projects, but also do it in the right language and presentation so that it clicks and shows those inquiries that, Hey, we understand the side of the industry. Yeah. And having confidence with it. Like when we send our quote through, we're confident that it's up to industry standards and we're not just pulling it because it sounds like a good number or something that, you know, they might pay, but just having the confidence that we're doing the right thing. And then it's the, you know, the standard way of
00:20:19
Speaker
going about that commercial side of photography. Yeah, absolutely. Because a bride and a groom, they're looking for something different in a pricing or collection guide than these big marketing agencies that you all are working with. And in addition to that, just how important do you feel like it was to really nail down that pricing strategy?
00:20:40
Speaker
I just think that makes such a big difference, especially when it comes to just being able to enjoy what you do. And I'm not saying it's all about the money or anything like that. That's not the suggestion there, but it just gives you – once you can be confident in the prices that you're sending over and they're profitable, I just feel like it opens up so much more mental energy to focus on the work. Completely, yeah. It's so nice now not to just let our minds run wild and
00:21:10
Speaker
kind of have a boxing match with ourself about what we're going to send over to a client. We can get off of the phone call with the consultation. We can evaluate the needs that they have, talk it over real quick together. But you know, we know our hourly rate, we know our half day rate, we know our full day rate. And then we know what we're going to charge for licensing based on what the needs are. So it's really plug and play at that point, based on the scope and skill that our client has. And that, that's just freed up, like you said, so much mental energy for us.
00:21:37
Speaker
And you don't have to, you know, you don't find yourself having to book, you know, 30 clients a month in order to make it profitable, you know, and which would just lead to, you know, burnout and exhaustion. And I think especially with what you all are doing with brand photography, and on the licensees side of things, having that sorted out, you know, again, I mean, that I think probably makes the difference for a brand photographer in terms of being profitable or not profitable.
00:22:03
Speaker
For sure, and like you said about the 30 jobs a month, we lived that. We lived that for a solid year and a half. And I totally think there is a season when you're starting a business of that hustle, that hustle of taking the small job and getting what you can get, getting the exposure, building your portfolio. But then there is a piece of that transition and largely what we worked through with you, Davey, which was believing in ourselves at the point where, hey, guys, look at your portfolio. Look at the things you have done.
00:22:31
Speaker
you guys can start evaluating this and charging a little bit more. And so really hearing that from you and believing in ourselves was a huge piece of that as well, believing that we're worth it, believing that our time is worth it and that what we can offer our clients is up to that caliber. So yeah, definitely.
00:22:48
Speaker
Yeah, something else I was talking with another guest today, Shante actually, is mindset. Oftentimes, I feel like the problems that we're facing in business, they feel like one thing. Pricing might feel like the problem, but a lot of times it comes back to mindset. And so that's, again, really interesting. These two episodes are going to have to go up like hand in hand because I just feel like they're perfect together.
00:23:10
Speaker
As far as the clients that you've been working with, like I said, and we've talked about this a little bit already, so we won't spend a ton of time here. We'll get into actually what people can do to make the most out of their branding sessions. But what do you feel like has been the most affecting marketing channel? Has it been word of mouth? Do you really feel like it's just building relationships with the people, the clients that you're
Success through Referrals and Client Satisfaction
00:23:31
Speaker
working with?
00:23:31
Speaker
Yeah, honestly, we look at each other sometimes when an inquiry comes in and we just are like, how in the world has this even come to us? But every single opportunity, it really has been a word of mouth referral. There hasn't been, you know, an email we've sent or a door we've knocked on that have brought us those huge opportunities. So we just work really hard to build relationships and genuine relationships with the people that we are doing business with and that we've done business with before.
00:24:00
Speaker
And they just have graciously sent us amazing opportunities. We've had the White Sox sent to us, Chris and Heidi Powell, a referral to shoot some renovations done at the Radisson Hotel. And then even our first 10,000 plus job all came from a personal referral. So that has really been the biggest, I would say, I don't know, avenue, I guess, of just getting our inquiries.
00:24:26
Speaker
Yeah, I think relationships are huge. It's something we talk about on the podcast a lot, something I blog about a lot. I feel like, again, it's not like the sexiest marketing advice. But I think it does make the biggest impact, especially on service-based businesses, especially for businesses where you're working one-on-one with clients or one-on-one with people. There's really no substitute for building strong relationships. And when you do, I think
00:24:51
Speaker
good things like $10,000 plus clients come along. So that's pretty incredible. And again, I'm just amazed at the kind of clients that you guys get to work with. So congrats on everything that you guys have done over the last year. But I do want to talk about why people should invest in brand photography. I mentioned at the beginning of the episode we did so, especially as we did a sort of a
00:25:16
Speaker
I wouldn't say a rebrand. It wasn't so much a rebrand as it's just kind of a brand refresh and website redesign. But we just think it makes all the difference for marketing imagery. So what would you say to somebody who's kind of thinking about whether they should invest in brand photography in particular, and maybe why they should invest in a brand photographer, not somebody who just does everything, but a brand photographer specifically? For sure. Well, going back to a wedding background, just like wedding day images invoke emotion,
00:25:46
Speaker
in the people that receive them. Brand imagery has the same effects. It's just, it's geared towards your clientele, your potential, your ideal client. And your brand's imagery is going to tell the story of your business and either create feelings of trust, excitement, or FOMO, or it's going to tell people, Hey, you know what? I should spend my time and money somewhere else. And I know that sounds a little bit harsh, but we've seen it largely to be true, especially, you know, we just, we just purchased a new home and I can't tell you throughout that process, looking at homes online.
00:26:16
Speaker
If there was a listing with terrible photos, it didn't matter how great of a deal it was or how big the house was, I swiped on. If it had great photos, I spent more time there. I wanted to see it more. I wanted to investigate what this house was a little bit more. And so really we feel like the bottom line is great photography actively sells for your business at a scale that, you know, sales staff, they could never match. You know, it speaks for you 24 seven, 365. And so it's constantly preaching your brand's message to potential clients.
00:26:45
Speaker
The other thing we feel like it does is it really establishes your authority in the space. You know, if you have great imagery that shows that, you know, whatever industry you're in, that you're a master of it, it's going to attract more clients to you because they're going to see like, wow, you know, this lady makes amazing cakes or wow, you know, this company produces incredible products. So those images really do a lot of the storytelling for you, do a lot of the talking for you.
00:27:11
Speaker
and saves, in our opinion, a lot of time and hassle with having to build that over time or build that trust slowly by reaching out and starting those leads yourself. Specifically, when it comes to a brand photographer, as you asked, that's a question we get often. What is it specific about a brand photographer? What is it about what you guys do that makes you unique? And I think a lot of that, back to what we spoke about earlier, is what we try to bring to our clients is
00:27:42
Speaker
Actually, let me back that up. What clients often bring to us, especially smaller businesses is I've got this great idea. I've got this great business. This is what I want my imagery to look like. I have no idea how to get there. So what we will do as brand photographers is we'll come alongside them and we'll ask some questions, you know, we'll try and help them understand, you know, do you have your ideal client figured out? Do you know the message you're trying to convey to them?
00:28:06
Speaker
You know, is this a personal brand? Is this you or is this your business that's doing the talking? And then from there we can help build out, okay, this is the message we're going to communicate. Here's how we're going to get there. Here's how to prepare. Here's wardrobe ideas. Here's location ideas. And then focus specifically on that message, right? So what we're trying to communicate is the brand's message and having that focus specifically along with the pretty things that we want to show, I think is what really differentiates what we do from, you know, somebody with a camera that focuses on a lot of different
00:28:35
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, when we were working together, I think that was one thing that became apparent to me. And you all, you know, provided a lot of education to me about why, you know, branding photography is important, and specifically what brand photographers can do, or really just me being able to so obviously see that there's there were certain things that you guys were thinking of on a brand shoot day, that I would have just never been thinking of as somebody who's coming from a wedding photography background. And that makes sense, right? Like somebody who doesn't typically shoot weddings,
00:29:04
Speaker
wouldn't possibly know the things to look for after, like I would after having shot over 100 weddings, right? So I think it just makes sense to book somebody who specializes in it. And again, for you guys, I mean, just in talking to you is so apparent, like, okay, wow, there's so much more to this than just taking great photos. How often would you say that people should be investing in brand photography?
Frequency and Personalization of Brand Sessions
00:29:33
Speaker
Yeah, I know our brand, for instance, I want to feel like there's kind of a new iteration almost every 18 months, I would say. Yeah, so we feel like the best answer to this is that it's totally dependent on the brand's marketing strategy. We have some clients that we work with on a quarterly basis.
00:29:51
Speaker
because they're just constantly needing, it's a restaurant, so they're just needing new images of their food to cycle through and to show different recipes and items that they've added to the menu. Some clients work with us biannually and others only as specific as their projects and promotions come up. So keeping things fresh with your imagery is super important. We talk with our clients about crafting sessions that make it look like a photographer basically follows them around every day.
00:30:18
Speaker
So as soon as that imagery starts to get a little bit stale or repetitive or you're just like cropping it to look like a different photo, that's a pretty good indicator that it's time to start planning for your next session.
00:30:31
Speaker
Sure, that makes a lot of sense. You know, I would say for us, having a new round of images has just gone such a long way. And Kristin and I were talking about recently after this most recent brand shoot that it's just something that I think we're gonna have to invest in on a yearly basis just to kind of make it a point to get new pictures because it really does feel at least from our perspective, of course, we're sitting around the same images all the time. But we feel like it breathes sort of a breath of fresh air into
00:30:56
Speaker
Our Instagram feed and just all the other places that you have to share imagery and I and again John kinda as you were saying like there's a whole message in the the images that you share and so
00:31:09
Speaker
refreshing that every once in a while makes a ton of sense.
Offering Coaching to Aspiring Photographers
00:31:13
Speaker
One of the things that we've talked about that we've mentioned throughout this episode is that there's really not a ton of education around brand photography out there, but you guys have been doing some one-on-one coaching both online but then also in-person one-on-one coaching. Can you guys talk a little bit about that, what you guys offer for people who are trying to make a similar transition to you?
00:31:36
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. That's one thing we've definitely started getting a lot of feedback on is people reaching out to us saying, Hey, you know, I really like what you're doing. I'm doing a little bit of that as well. How do I, how do I transition into this space? You know, and struggling with a lot of those things we were struggling with. We actually just had somebody send a question our way on Facebook, like what's a commercial license and how do I get one? You know, it's like all the things that we were wrestling with trying to figure out how do we get there? How do we make sense of this industry? And so.
00:32:05
Speaker
You know, one of the things that drives us, honestly, the why behind our business is to positively impact everyone we work with. So whether that's clients we work with on a shoot or people that were able to take time to mentor, we really just want to leave a positive mark on the industry and with everyone we work with.
00:32:22
Speaker
And so one of the ways we have been doing that is yeah, we do one-on-one virtual coaching sessions, our coaching sessions, where we cover three specific topics that are kind of pre-planned in advance. So if there's three specific areas, three specific questions a person has that they really want clarity on, we cover those within an hour. And then we're also offering half and full day, a one-on-one workshop experiences where people get to come and hang out with us for a day. And we really cover front to back on.
00:32:52
Speaker
what we do, why we do it, how we work within this side of the industry, and actually even with a full day experience, do a style sheet at the end to really give some portfolio building content specific to brand photography. And so just really loving those opportunities to invest in others and kind of impart maybe some
00:33:10
Speaker
some shortcuts through some of the struggles that we walk through ourselves. Yeah and also just the chance to just to show people a little bit of like how I'll create some of the photos because I get that asked a lot just how do you style the way you do and I don't really know that I could like write that out in a form of like you know a textbook answer it's just
00:33:30
Speaker
You know, a couple rules I follow and then it just happens. So being able to work with somebody in person, that's how I learned best. And I just figured that's the best way we can offer to help other people learn. So that's a really fun, fun thing to be able to do.
00:33:43
Speaker
Yeah, I would say if you're looking into something like this, when I was starting to get into photography, one of those formative things I did was fly out and actually spend the day with a photographer whose work I really liked and I got insight into how the businesses actually run, but then also in addition that shoot as well. I think that was just such a formative experience.
00:34:05
Speaker
That's something that I would recommend to people. I think, I mean, you're gonna get a ton from Erika and John even if you were just to meet with them virtually for an hour. But I think, you know, probably what you would get with spending a day with them is gonna be so proportionally greater than the time you're actually spending in that day. So, definitely something to check out if you're interested in getting into brand photography and if you're just looking for new brand photos, I would also highly recommend
00:34:32
Speaker
reaching out to Erica and John. Not only is their work great, but they're just fun people. It's sort of like the chip in JoJo of brand photography. Oh, that's the best compliment I could ever given. I'm really excited to also see them at... So if you're a photographer, you can also go to the United Conference. Erica and John will also be speaking there later this year. So excited to hang out with you guys at United. Yes, thank you. We're looking forward to seeing you there.
00:35:00
Speaker
Well, thank you for your time today. Where else can people follow along? Yeah, so you can find us on Instagram at Erica and John. John does the no H in his name. So it's at Erica and John, J-O-N.
Connect with Erica and John Online
00:35:12
Speaker
Our website is ericaandjohn.com. Forgot. Yep. I was like, what is our website again? And if you have any interest in the coaching sessions or anything like that, feel free to use an email, info at ericaandjohn.com.
00:35:25
Speaker
Yep. And I'll make sure that I include all that information in the show notes. So head on over there. If you're driving or you're running, and you forget that just head on over the show notes. Thanks y'all. Thanks for tuning into the brand set book show. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing and leaving a review and iTunes. For show notes and other resources, head on over to devianchrista.com.
00:35:56
Speaker
you