Transcript
Luisa Hogan: Be yourself sounds like the safest advice in the world, doesn't it? But what if it's the very thing that is keeping you stuck? Because most leaders aren't struggling with being fake, they're struggling with being misaligned. And the cost of getting that wrong quietly builds over time.
Luisa Hogan: Welcome to The Second Voice, where we uncover the conversations that leaders don't have out loud. I'm your host, Louisa Hogan, and today i am exploring the the challenge that most leaders have around authenticity and asking whether we've misunderstood authenticity entirely.
Luisa Hogan: And I'm very excited to have a wonderful guest with me today. His name is Kurt Busch and he is a certified internal family systems practitioner, a trauma-informed coach and co-founder of Brimstone Coaching Group. He has a background spanning corporate leadership, pastoral ministry and coaching, and he helps leaders break free from self doubt, embrace some thought authenticity and lead with confidence. He has overcome his own struggles with imposter syndrome and Kurt is very passionate about guiding others through transformational growth into authentic leadership. Kurt, i'm I'm so pleased to have you here with me today because I've been looking forward to this since we've scheduled that time together. because I'm so intrigued by this idea that you brought to me around authenticity and it's not what we think it is. So i'm I'm very excited to explore that with you today. But before we even get into it, tell us a little bit about you and your background. I've given a brief bio, but I'm interested to know more. What was that journey?
Kurt Bush: Yeah, Louisa, thanks for having me and thanks for asking the question. um yeah I'm going to need like three hours for that journey. Yeah,
Luisa Hogan: Oh gosh, I wish we had three hours. I actually always say that in these episodes, like we need three hours or I say, you're going to have to come back.
Kurt Bush: yeah
Kurt Bush: yeah.
Luisa Hogan: We'll do more
Kurt Bush: Yep, yep. Yeah, so i I started my career in the manufacturing world. i did some production supervision. i over i had the privilege to oversee a process that was that was done by about 12 employees. um Then I worked in HR in that same manufacturing plant for for a number of years. I did all the labor recruiting, which was a wild ah thing to learn kind of on the fly, but I loved it. I loved my time there. Great learning experience, both leading and recruiting. I went to seminary late in life.
Kurt Bush: um that was That was something that was kind of unplanned. It kind of fell into my lap. And then i I pastored a couple of local churches for nearly a decade. um and And I don't know if you remember 2020, Louisa, but it was wild.
Kurt Bush: ah ah Just wild.
Luisa Hogan: It was wild.
Kurt Bush: ah So it was kind of in the process of leading a local church and leading some volunteer leaders through COVID, through all of the other sort of cultural things going on here in our in our country.
Kurt Bush: at the At the same time, i was leading them through that, leading them through their own kind of navigation of their own anxiety. I learned in that moment that that's really what I love doing. I love helping those volunteer leaders who have never been in a situation like that. None of us had.
Luisa Hogan: Yeah.
Kurt Bush: ah i really loved helping them learn how to navigate for themselves. um and over time what happened uh those leaders that i was coaching that organization that i was coaching the culture we were building uh it it took hold i was doing less coaching i was having to do more organizational leading which if i'm honest with you louisa because it's just us here right uh i i did not like that form of leadership i i'm not an organizational leader ah it It was draining.
Luisa Hogan: yeah
Kurt Bush: So then in 2024, I decided to kind of step into some more like actual formal coaching and launched the Brimstone Coaching Group with a really good friend of mine.
Luisa Hogan: Awesome. What a journey and what a self-discovery too.
Kurt Bush: Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: It, ah What I find wild about that, and it's a lot like my journey, is you ah it's it's surprising how things emerge and you never imagine where you'll end up.
Luisa Hogan: And then you find yourself in this place where you're extremely passionate and you're doing something that you absolutely love. And I i love that for you that you found that.
Kurt Bush: Yeah. Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: So that's incredible.
Kurt Bush: yeah
Luisa Hogan: ah Now, I know that part of your coaching work, you've, you know, in in the information that I've read about you and that you've sent to me, you come across this concept of authenticity with the leaders that you work with.
Luisa Hogan: Tell me more about that, like specifically the work that you do in that authenticity space and that self-doubt space. And tell me where does authenticity start to break down for leaders?
Kurt Bush: Yeah, that's a good question. Yeah, I mean, I i think the work that that my partner and I have done over the last decade, we we we like to say we coached together, but separately for about a decade before we launched our practice together.
Kurt Bush: And what what we started to see was that um the way people were leading and the way people were thinking about leadership in our neck of the woods was unsustainable.
Luisa Hogan: Mm-hmm.
Kurt Bush: um And and that when leaders would show up with this sort of mental model of authenticity that said, yeah, you know, I might lose my temper in a meeting sometime, or I might lash out at you sometimes. That's just me. That's who I am.
Luisa Hogan: Mm-hmm.
Kurt Bush: ah What we found is that that was neither getting the results they wanted, ah nor was it leading to a ah leadership that was whole and and thriving and sustainable in the long term.
Kurt Bush: ah What we found was it it led to a lot of burnout. It led to a lot of fighting. It led to a lot of tension between the leader and the people they were trying to lead. Because it it always leads that sort of authenticity always leads to conflict.
Kurt Bush: It always leads to, well, if you're not following me, then there's either something wrong with me or something wrong with you. um
Luisa Hogan: Mm-hmm.
Kurt Bush: and And that's not a great place from which to lead an organization or lead a group of volunteers. So so we just found like there had to be something else. There had to be a different way to think about this. And and what we what we really uncovered was people don't know who they are.
Kurt Bush: We didn't know who who we really are. We didn't know how we wanted to lead. What we uncovered was we are leading with mental models that leaders do XYZ. Leaders have control and power and authority. Leaders have all the answers. Leaders are tough.
Kurt Bush: Right. And what we found is that's just not the recipe for thriving.
Luisa Hogan: Yeah.
Kurt Bush: So we so really set out to find a different way to think about leadership.
Luisa Hogan: Yeah. You're speaking my language because that's the work that I do, you know, changing that that voice of, you know, I'm resilient, I'm tough, and that's what leadership is.
Kurt Bush: Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: And, you know, the work that I do is all around strength is not where it's at.
Kurt Bush: Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: It's, you know, steadiness, steadiness last strength burns out.
Kurt Bush: Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: So i love that you're doing that work. And it reminds me so much, you know, early and on in my career when I was in like, you know, I got leadership roles quite early in my career, but I remember it was my first C-suite role. You know, I was a chief development officer for ah for a business.
Luisa Hogan: And I remember at the time I used to be the kind of, like I would I would come in and I would be grumpy and I would allow it to show on my face and I wasn't ever mean to anyone but it'd be grumpy and my my CEO at the time told me look you everyone can see that you're grumpy you know you gotta to stop doing that I'm like but don't you want me to be an authentic leader right and I remember having that same discussion like you want me to be authentic leader and At the time, I didn't quite understand what she wanted from me because I'm like, ah you want me to be authentic, but you want me to hide my grumpy face.
Kurt Bush: Yeah.
Kurt Bush: Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: And then I realized actually it was an internal shift, right?
Kurt Bush: Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: It's an internal shift. It's not pretending to be something else, right?
Kurt Bush: Yes.
Luisa Hogan: You you be authentic, but you've got to change how you see yourself, right?
Kurt Bush: Yes.
Luisa Hogan: So is that the kind of work that you do with people?
Kurt Bush: It is. You know, I think i think that that's so ingrained in people, this sort of mental model of of authenticity.
Luisa Hogan: Yep.
Kurt Bush: You know, it means no filter, take me as I am. Right. I mean, I think what you just described, Louisa, is what a lot of people feel of like, if I'm going to be authentic, I have to be on display all the time.
Luisa Hogan: Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: yeah
Kurt Bush: um and And sure, that that is probably some form of authenticity. I would probably say that's just some form of being unfiltered. ah you know I actually think we can hide the, I mean, to your example, hide that sort of grumpy posture and still be authentic.
Luisa Hogan: yeah
Kurt Bush: ah Because giving the world all of us all the time doesn't always eate equate to authenticity.
Luisa Hogan: Yeah.
Kurt Bush: We help leaders think about authenticity like this. Who and how do you want to be? And there's a lot of like I say that flippantly, there's a lot of work that goes into that. But that work of deciding really, really clearly, here's who I want to be Here's how I want to be. And then taking steps to make that happen.
Kurt Bush: We would say that's truly authenticity. um and And maybe, you know, I think even that sort of, you know, to go back to your example, maybe showing up, you know, on a Monday or Tuesday with sort of ah a vulnerable posture of the emotion that I'm feeling that certainly can be a part of the who and how I want to be.
Kurt Bush: But we would say that if that decision is being made without sort of a ah guiding principle decision to say, here's who I want to be, that it's probably not authenticity.
Luisa Hogan: Yeah.
Kurt Bush: It's probably something else.
Luisa Hogan: Yes. Yeah. I love that. I absolutely love that. And, you know, I think. what I love about that is that people don't often know what their internal guiding system is or their values or the values they want to bring into leadership.
Kurt Bush: Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: And they hear the word leader and they think power, they think, you know, control, they think all sorts of things, but actually leadership is all about service.
Kurt Bush: Yeah.
Kurt Bush: yeah
Luisa Hogan: And you have to align your values with that idea of being in service to the people that you are leading, because there's a lot of sacrifice when, Leadership.
Kurt Bush: Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: There's so much sacrifice to leadership. So unless you feel aligned with that, unless you know what that exactly looks like for you and how you you can bring yourself as leader, it's going to be really difficult to um i get people to follow you and also be to, to feel like you're enjoying the leadership role.
Luisa Hogan: Right.
Kurt Bush: Yeah, yeah, it's so interesting. I mean, Louisa, I think we're we're like saying so much to the same thing. I'm getting so excited having this conversation.
Luisa Hogan: Yeah.
Kurt Bush: and yeah Years ago, we found some research from the Harvard Business Journal that said like 15% of adults consider themselves self-aware.
Luisa Hogan: Yeah.
Kurt Bush: which is shockingly low, right?
Luisa Hogan: Mm-hmm.
Luisa Hogan: Yeah.
Kurt Bush: It's just shockingly low. And I think what we realize in our work is that even if people don't know that they're doing certain things or have certain default behaviors, every one of us does.
Kurt Bush: Right. Every one of us has a default pattern of behaviors that we use when we get into leadership. Every one of us has a mental model of how we think about this. The question is, are those serving us?
Luisa Hogan: Mm-hmm.
Kurt Bush: Are those getting the results we want? And I think that's that self-awareness piece that. frankly, we get to choose to do the work to understand. But I think that's what separates really good leaders, um especially leaders who think about service, like you said, I think, I mean, that's, for me, the bar of like, what makes a good leader, it's a sort of service mixed with self awareness.
Kurt Bush: Like that's what separates a good leader from an extraordinary leader.
Luisa Hogan: Yeah, for sure. And I mean, this is ah this is a podcast about self-talk, right? So like what kind of self-talk do your clients or the people you work with have when it comes to this authenticity and, you know, faking it?
Kurt Bush: Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: Is it, is I mean, I imagine there's doubt in there or is, you know, what what do you come across with that?
Kurt Bush: Yeah. Yeah. Just just the other day, Louisa, I had a client who is like a department manager at a manufacturing plant and he was just feeling drained and he he like leaned into the zoom camera and he said, Am I the only one that feels like I don't belong or am I the only one that feels like I i like don't deserve my role?
Kurt Bush: And like internally, I'm like celebrating that he's realizing what he's feeling, but externally, I'm not celebrating.
Luisa Hogan: Yeah.
Kurt Bush: ah
Luisa Hogan: yeah
Kurt Bush: So I looked at him, I said, think everyone feels this, right? I think every leader carries some level of ah doubt or inner critic or imposter syndrome. Yeah.
Kurt Bush: And I think that that is such a common human experience. I think you said it right away. Like often we don't talk about it. Often we don't let it kind of out and into the light.
Kurt Bush: I think the light is, you know, if I can use the light, dark metaphor, light is where those things die, right?
Luisa Hogan: Yeah.
Kurt Bush: Light is where those things lose power. but But yeah, I mean, to answer your question, I think that sort of I'm going to be found out. You know, that sort of posture is pretty scary for some of our clients. That's something we see on a regular basis. We do a lot of work with nonprofit leaders.
Kurt Bush: we We probably do more work with nonprofit leaders than we do with corporate leaders. ah and And that nonprofit work can be really scary. You know, there's usually a board involved.
Luisa Hogan: yeah
Kurt Bush: There's usually other anxious people involved. And it's usually a fear of like, what if I'm found out that I'm not the leader people think I am?
Luisa Hogan: Yeah, 100%. hundred I work in that not-for-profit space too. You know, um i' work corporate, not-for-profit. I work with both and it's um it' a whole different board game in the in the not-for-profit world because they're also people full of heart and passion and they're doing the work because they love the work and they want to do a good job and sometimes the wrong people get promoted into leadership roles because they've been there a long time and they really love the work and um
Kurt Bush: Yeah.
Kurt Bush: Yeah. Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: it's It's fascinating. And I just love this concept of authenticity in that because, you know, they' they might step into that role and they want to be authentic and show themselves as these passionate people. But then, you know, that also might backfire because they're not, um you know, maybe...
Luisa Hogan: able to step up enough that people feel inspired to, to follow them because they're just, you know, they, they're passionate at, and they're knowledgeable at doing the frontline stuff, but maybe not so much the leading or strategic stuff.
Kurt Bush: Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: It's an interesting world, right?
Kurt Bush: it It is. and i mean, I think, yeah, Louisa, I want to go a lot of different ways. Here's what I wonder about sometimes.
Luisa Hogan: Yeah. Yeah.
Kurt Bush: I mean, ah we'll sometimes talk about alignment is more important than like even ah like a continued role.
Kurt Bush: i mean, I think you were even kind of getting at like, what if what if a leader's authentic alignment isn't what a board wants? You know, or one of the the the things that we've run into before is that sometimes good leadership looks slow, or sometimes good leadership looks weak, you know, and, and then there's this question of am I going to align myself with who and how I want to be, even if that means the board is going to see me as weak or slow, like, or am I, am I gonna, uh, you know, change who and how I want to be so that I can sort of, you know, get through the discomfort of the, of the boards looking at me.
Kurt Bush: i mean, it's such a complex conversation and there's a lot of nuance in between. It's certainly not an either, either or, but yeah, that, that question of alignment, uh, alignment when,
Luisa Hogan: For sure. Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: What does it look like? What does aligned leadership actually look like?
Kurt Bush: Yeah. Great question. I think you should have to answer that. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I love it.
Luisa Hogan: Asking the tough questions here on the second voice.
Kurt Bush: Hard hitting, hard hitting. Yeah. I mean, so, so I have a, have a client, a nonprofit leader client who, um, who who doesn't often fit the mold of the leaders, the volunteer leaders on the board that he serves. And, you know, like he he has to ask himself every day if he wants to hold the alignment to say, you know, he would say, i am capable of bringing the change to the system that we all want to see. I'm capable of impacting this system. Yeah.
Kurt Bush: but it's slow right it's very slow and it's pretty regular that this client faces some sort of critique around the slowness ah because there's no shortage of leaders on the internet who can say, hey, we're going to do this fast and here's what it looks like.
Luisa Hogan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Kurt Bush: Follow these three steps for transformation and growth. So I think the work that we do with him and I think that he's doing on his own, does he he's doing the work, I'm just helping.
Kurt Bush: ah the The work he's doing is asking, like what is the cost of misalignment? Right. um There is certainly a cost of alignment, ah you know, to who and how we want to be to to let the work be slow and meaningful and let, you know, let good process be good process.
Kurt Bush: But what's the cost of misalignment? That's often a question we ask to kind of help clients like understand that nuance. And and sometimes we can bear the cost of misalignment and sometimes we can't.
Luisa Hogan: Yeah, for sure. and And misalignment will, you know, ah causes all sorts of problems. Like you say, there's a cost to it. And, you know, there's a cost to turnover of people working with you.
Kurt Bush: Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: There's, you know, because people will join your organization because they believe in the work that you're doing. And then if there's misalignment with the leader or the CEO or the general manager or whoever it is, you know, leading that and it doesn't fit, you creates culture problems doesn't it there's that there's all those other there's all those other costs that come with it yeah was you know was there a moment in your own leadership that you felt like you being yourself wasn't enough or that you weren't being yourself and i know you said earlier that you did not like you know the leadership um
Kurt Bush: Yeah.
Kurt Bush: Yeah.
Kurt Bush: Yep.
Kurt Bush: Yep. 100%. Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: in, in a different space to what you ended up in. So tell me about your self-talk in that, like, how did you align yourself and, you know, were there doubts with that shift and that change in your, in your journey?
Kurt Bush: Yeah, 100%. I mean, i think what what I believe about our our paths and our journey is that every day there's a potential for these voices to show up in new ways, right? Like I can get on top of my inner critic or my my negative self-talk, but tomorrow life is all different and it might show up in a different way. So I need to be ready to attack those things again. ah yeah I mean, I think what was true for me, early in my career, imposter syndrome was really, really, really heavy.
Kurt Bush: ah so so much so that that I would like leave meetings and feel regret and remorse and say, why didn't I say that? Or why did I say that? um Yeah, I had a couple of good coaches years ago helped me work through some of that. But I think that that transition from like, here's the sort of leadership that I really love and I can see coming that that is getting less and less in in a current actual vocational role. Yeah, it unearthed that imposter syndrome in a whole new way.
Kurt Bush: um You know, I think the the voice, the loud voice was, hey a good pastor could make this shift. A good pastor would make this shift instead of saying, hey, I think I think I'm going to take an off ramp here and find more of the work that I love.
Kurt Bush: Um, it was with the help of a good coach, uh, that sort of helped me realize that, that I do have the agency to make those shifts and to, to do those, those transitions that, that give life. And, and, you know, that, that ratio of life, like the things you do that give you life and the things you do that drain you, i have agency in that ratio,
Kurt Bush: um and And that was completely new to me. As silly as that sounds, Louisa, in in my 40s, I had no idea that that I got to make that decision.
Luisa Hogan: not silly.
Kurt Bush: So again, that that work with a good coach to say, making that decision doesn't make you a bad anything.
Luisa Hogan: Yep.
Kurt Bush: It makes you a human that has agency was hugely important for me.
Luisa Hogan: For sure. Look, it's it's not silly. And some people go their entire lives without realizing that, you know, and how fortunate and how wonderful that you realize that in your lifetime.
Kurt Bush: Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: My big realization in my 40s was that every single emotion that I have, self-doubt, everything, all comes down to fear.
Kurt Bush: Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: Every single thing. Guilt, feel guilty. If you really dig down into that, it's, you know, you feel fear and self-doubt. is fear. Everything just boils down to fear.
Kurt Bush: Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: And then when you really look at it what do I have to fear?
Kurt Bush: Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: And there's actually not an awful lot we have to fear. Like if you're fearing people judging you, that's on them, not on you.
Kurt Bush: Yeah.
Kurt Bush: Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: Right. And it took me an awful long time to realize that.
Kurt Bush: yeah
Luisa Hogan: And it doesn't mean that I get it right all the time. Just as you said, like there's still there days where we will have that voice, but I think you get to a point where you can be more forgiving of yourself and go, Oh, yep. This is just a reminder.
Luisa Hogan: that I need to get back to thinking, you know, out of out of that space, right?
Kurt Bush: Yeah. Yeah. I i love that.
Luisa Hogan: Yeah.
Kurt Bush: i mean, I think we would say the same thing that if you boil everything down far enough, fear is present.
Luisa Hogan: Yeah.
Kurt Bush: And it's it's such a motivator, right? It's such a driver.
Luisa Hogan: Yeah.
Kurt Bush: Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: Yeah, but it doesn't always drive us in the right direction.
Kurt Bush: That's so true. That's so true. 100%. hundred percent
Luisa Hogan: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, ah I love your story and I love where you are now. So now you're coaching, you set that up with your, how long have you been doing your coaching for now?
Kurt Bush: Yeah, that's a good question. So like formally, officially, we launched it in fall of 24.
Luisa Hogan: Okay.
Kurt Bush: But again, we we like to say we were coaching separately, but together for four or five years before that.
Luisa Hogan: Okay.
Kurt Bush: um So yeah, I mean, I think we probably would say we've been coaching together for like nearly a decade, but for formally just in 2024.
Luisa Hogan: Yep. Yep.
Luisa Hogan: Amazing.
Kurt Bush: Yeah. Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: Oh, well, that's that's still quite a while ago. I mean, it's a couple of years now. um You know, in that work, do you, what are the, I mean, you've sort of touched on it, but do you have like a formal methodology that you use when working with your clients? Can you tell me more about that?
Kurt Bush: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for asking. So two things.
Luisa Hogan: Yeah.
Kurt Bush: First, we are both trauma informed coaches. So much much of our work is based on this idea that that all of us have little t traumas in our past that shape how we show up today.
Kurt Bush: so we think about this in in what we call protective promises that in our first formation, all of us make what we call protective promises to ourselves to keep ourselves safe.
Kurt Bush: And certainly younger versions of us needed that protection in that way. And it was good and it was right. But as we get into adulthood and we lead, those protective promises aren't serving us in a way that's fruitful or productive.
Kurt Bush: So then we help people identify those protective promises, identify the patterns of behavior that they trigger, and replace them with more purposeful and preferred promises.
Kurt Bush: That's one of the journeys we help people go on. Again, uncovering what what caused us to do what we do now and then replace those with with new ways and new patterns of being.
Kurt Bush: ah
Luisa Hogan: New pathways, yeah.
Kurt Bush: Yeah, yeah. The other framework that we use is what we call our transformational equation. um i I hate math, Louisa, and I don't know why we settled on the word equation.
Luisa Hogan: So do I.
Kurt Bush: Like, what what a dumb thing.
Luisa Hogan: Because it's relatable.
Kurt Bush: Yeah, I guess that's true.
Luisa Hogan: It's good.
Kurt Bush: Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: i think it's a good word. Yeah.
Kurt Bush: yeah okay thank you thank you uh so so we think about it like this we think about uh this equation it's e encounter plus r reflection equals transformation equals t transformation we think we have encounters every single day dozens of them that shock us or surprise us and cause us to react in ways that we wouldn't normally choose
Luisa Hogan: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Kurt Bush: Maybe somebody cuts us off in traffic. Maybe somebody, you know, puts their grocery cart in line before us and we react or we have this intense ah response that we're not sure why it happens. we We think the practice of reflecting on those things and understanding, you know, what happened?
Kurt Bush: Why did we do this? What did we feel? And what would we rather do next time? We think once we see those things, once we can answer those questions honestly, now as adults, we get to do something about them.
Kurt Bush: um You know, once we see it, now we have a choice. And we think that leads to transformation. So it's really those two frameworks that we think about employing together to help people move from this place of being unaware of why they do what they do into a place of being being aware, and now getting to do the work to say, what am I going to do next time?
Luisa Hogan: Yeah, I love it. ah Because, you know, I draw on a lot of like neuroscience and the work that I do in building steadiness into leadership.
Kurt Bush: Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: And I love, you know, our brains are predictive. We predict everything.
Kurt Bush: Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: what's going to happen based on our past experiences, which is a lot of what you're talking about. And so anytime something happens based on a part past experience, we predict that this thing's going to happen, even though that thing may not happen.
Kurt Bush: Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: And I love your equation, even though I hate math too, like the equation's good because the first path is awareness, but awareness is not enough. You need to be able to then work on that to change the pathway so that we predict a new outcome.
Luisa Hogan: which is that transformation that you're talking about.
Kurt Bush: Love that.
Luisa Hogan: So brilliant. I think that's brilliant and easy to remember and easy to work on, right? Because I think sometimes some people just make it far too complex and people give up, right?
Kurt Bush: I think so. Yeah. if If it's not attainable or achievable or like practical and I can grab it, I'm not going to use it.
Luisa Hogan: Mm-hmm.
Luisa Hogan: her So, I mean, we're we need three hours and we're coming to the end. Can you believe how fast it goes?
Kurt Bush: Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: Like 30 minutes goes so fast. I hate it.
Kurt Bush: Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: But if somebody is listening and they feel successful on the outside and internally they might feel a little bit off or not aligned based on that authenticity we talked about, where can they start recalibrating without blowing everything up or blowing everything out of the water so that they suddenly look like a completely different person and people are like, what? Like, who is this person? And what do you suggest?
Kurt Bush: Yeah, I love the way you frame that question. One of our clients said once that this sort of self work and probably the work you do too feels like one of those old toys where you take the lid off a jar and these like spring snakes fly out.
Kurt Bush: You know, like once you start doing this work, like holy cow, this could like change you.
Luisa Hogan: Yeah. Yeah.
Luisa Hogan: Yeah.
Kurt Bush: Yeah. and Anyway, here's here's a tip that we give often. We we think about um the the the words regret and remorse. One of the first things we ask our clients to do is to notice throughout their days, when do they feel regret or remorse about how they showed up?
Kurt Bush: Whether that's, man, I lashed out more than I wanted to, or I didn't speak up when I wanted to, or, you know, whatever it is, i something didn't go the way I wanted it to.
Kurt Bush: Notice those and literally take a pen and paper and answer some simple questions. What happened? Who was there? What did I feel? What did I do? the Those are really simple steps to start to see what's going on and and how we're showing up in ways that that I think are manageable.
Kurt Bush: ah maybe Maybe not. Maybe they are going to be jarring for some people. But I think that initial like just noticing where I'm not showing up the way i want the way I want to, just beginning to notice that in small ways, I think is a great first step.
Luisa Hogan: Love it. That's amazing advice. I love it so much. So where can people get hold of you? If you're listening and you want to get hold of Kurt, you want to, I mean, you're, you're, whereabouts in the U.S. are you based?
Kurt Bush: I'm in Iowa in the US, but most all of our most of our clients are digital, virtual.
Luisa Hogan: Awesome.
Kurt Bush: Yeah, yeah.
Luisa Hogan: So even if you're in Australia, can work with you, where can they get hold of you, Kurt, like if they want to work with you?
Kurt Bush: Yep. We have a website, brimstonecoachinggroup.com. We have all the information people need to know there. We have a podcast too. We have a book out. I mean, I'm not a huge plugger, Louisa, but any of the ways ah I, I know, i know I'm a nine Enneagram.
Luisa Hogan: It should be. Yes. so
Kurt Bush: I'm a people pleaser if you know what that means. ah So yeah, there's multiple ways on that website to connect with us and kind of see who we are and why we do what we do.
Luisa Hogan: Excellent. I'll put to your website in our show notes for everybody listening. If you want to click on that and listen to Kurt, ah talk to Kurt. Thank you so much for joining us today, Kurt. I really appreciated the discussion and I wish you all the best with your business.
Luisa Hogan: couple of years old, but seems to be going great, gun so good luck to you with all of that and thanks for joining me today. To everyone listening, I think the biggest takeaway that I've taken out of today is that holding on to who you've been as a leader is not always the way to go. And sometimes about having the courage to reflect and look at who you are and see if you're aligned to your values or the person you want to be and to choose it's about choosing you can choose the kind of leader you are you don't have to be what everyone else thinks you need to be you can choose and make sure that it's in service to what you're planning to do within the work that you do whether it's volunteering or an organization or not for profit or corporate it doesn't matter where you are you can choose the kind of leader that you want to be thanks again curtain to everyone listening see you next time bye
