Welcome to Part 2 of my interview series with Dr Marg Ross, clinical psychologist and Chief Principal Investigator of Australia’s first psychedelic-assisted therapy trial exploring psilocybin for end-of-life distress.

Marg has trained therapists and medical professionals around the world in psychedelic-assisted therapy and palliative care, bringing a deep interest in cultural rituals, altered states of consciousness, and the meaning-making processes that arise at the end of life. Her work is also informed by learning from Indigenous medicine practitioners, shaping a more expansive understanding of healing and human distress.

In our conversation, we explore psychedelic therapy as a profoundly existential experience—one that invites awe, perspective shifts, and deep personal growth. We talk about the importance of preparation, the cultural and relational dimensions of suffering, and what her research reveals about how people can transform their relationship to death and dying.

We also reflect on the role of documentary in capturing these intimate journeys, and what it means to witness this kind of care in practice.

Find Marg at 

https://www.studioimmersivetherapy.com.au/

Edge of Life Documentary – out on Apple TV

Paper on Trial results - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40858059/

Keep in touch with me at

Beyond the Trip Podcast available anywhere you listen to Podcasts:-

https://open.spotify.com/show/5g1sms2EXq72NW64nVQhzC?si=ff3548af32e84bf6

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeyondtheTrippodcast

Insta: dresmedark

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-esme-dark-627156a0/

Website: https://www.esmedarkpsychology.com.au/

Dr Marg Ross: Edge of life: Part 2

Beyond the Trip is delighted to be collaborating with  Kyle Buller from Psychedelics Today for this episode, where we discuss many topics, including

Psychedelic policy in Australia vs the US

Challenges and cost of Psychedelic-assisted Psychotherapy in both countries

Psychedelics in end-of-life care

Integrating somatic therapy into psychedelic sessions

Adapting therapeutic frameworks for use in Psychedelic-Assisted therapy

In 2016, Kyle Buller and Joe Moore co-founded Psychedelics Today [https://www.psychedelicstoday.com/], one of the world’s leading psychedelic media and education companies. Kyle's interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began at the age of 16 when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. After this near-death experience, Kyle’s life changed dramatically. Kyle subsequently earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology from Burlington College, where he focused on studying the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, Reiki, local medicinal plants and plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and psychedelic psychotherapy.

Kyle earned his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology from Prescott College. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early episode of psychosis and providing counseling to undergraduate/graduate students in a university setting. Kyle also has experience offering psychotherapy services specializing in psychedelic integration, spiritual emergence, and ketamine-assisted psychotherapy.

Find Kyle here :- https://www.psychedelicstoday.com/

Keep in touch with me at

Beyond the Trip Podcast available anywhere you listen to Podcasts:-

https://open.spotify.com/show/5g1sms2EXq72NW64nVQhzC?si=ff3548af32e84bf6

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeyondtheTrippodcast

Insta: dresmedark

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-esme-dark-627156a0/

Website: https://www.esmedarkpsychology.com.au/

Kyle Buller:  Psychedelics, Somatics and the Shadow

 In this episode of Beyond the Trip, we’re joined by Dr Marg Ross, clinical psychologist and Chief Principal Investigator of Australia’s first psychedelic-assisted therapy trial exploring the use of psilocybin for end-of-life distress.

Marg has been at the forefront of developing psychedelic-assisted therapy in Australia, helping to train therapists and medical professionals both nationally and internationally in the use of psilocybin-assisted therapy and in the psychosocial aspects of palliative care. Her work sits at the intersection of clinical science, existential psychology, and cultural approaches to death and dying.

Together, we explore Marg’s groundbreaking research into psilocybin-assisted therapy for people facing life-limiting illness and what this work is revealing about the human experience of mortality. Rather than focusing solely on symptom reduction, psychedelic therapy at the end of life often opens a deeper process of transformation—helping people reconnect with meaning, process fear, and approach death with greater peace.

We also speak candidly about the personal and professional realities of working in this space. Marg reflects on how confronting mortality—both through research and through our own lives—can shape the way we understand healing, presence, and care.

In this conversation we explore:

· The story behind Australia’s first psychedelic-assisted therapy trial for end-of-life distress

· What patients report after psilocybin therapy when facing life-limiting illness

· Why psychedelic therapy in palliative care is often about transformation rather than symptom reduction

· Cultural and ritual perspectives on death, dying, and altered states of consciousness

· The intersection between Indigenous healing traditions and contemporary medical approaches

· Therapist burnout and the importance of sustainable ways of working in emotionally demanding fields

· How coming face to face with mortality helped shape both our personal lives and our professional work

This episode is part of our special series exploring psychedelic-assisted therapy in end-of-life care and grief, where we speak with researchers and clinicians working at the edges of medicine, psychology, and the human experience of dying.

Keep in touch with me at

Beyond the Trip Podcast available anywhere you listen to Podcasts:-

https://open.spotify.com/show/5g1sms2EXq72NW64nVQhzC?si=ff3548af32e84bf6

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeyondtheTrippodcast

Insta: dresmedark

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-esme-dark-627156a0/

Website: https://www.esmedarkpsychology.com.au/

Find Dr Marg Ross at https://www.studioimmersivetherapy.com.au/

Disclaimer: This Podcast is for general information only and does noy constitute an endorsement or recommendation for psychedelic assisted psychotherapy

Dr Marg Ross: At the Edge of Life: Psychedelics and Facing Our Mortality

William A. Richards (Bill), Senior Advisor at Sunstone Therapies and a psychologist in the Center for Psychedelic and Consciousness Research at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, has been involved in psychedelic research since 1963. He also is also associated with the Program in Psychedelic Therapiesand Research at the California Institute of Integral Studies. From 1967 to 1977, he implemented projects with LSD, DPT, MDA and psilocybin at the Maryland Psychiatric Research Center, including protocols designed to investigate the promise of psychedelics in the treatment of alcoholism, depression, narcotic addiction and the psychological distress associated with terminal cancer. His recent research at Johns Hopkins, in collaboration with colleagues at New York University, has focused on the potential value of psilocybin in the continuing education of professional religious leaders from different world religions. At Sunstone Therapies, he is focused on integrating psychedelic therapy into palliative care. His book, Sacred Knowledge:Psychedelics and Religious Experiences, published by Columbia University Press, now has been translated into multiple languages.

We also explore: why psychedelic therapy is helpful in people with life limiting illnesses, what cancer clients report after psychedelic assisted therapy, the importance of involving the family in the healing process, how grief shows up in the body and how psychedelics can help us process this, societal views on death and dying and how psychedelics could help to shift these.

Bill Richards – Book

https://www.amazon.com.au/Sacred-Knowledge-Psychedelics-Religious-Experiences/dp/0231174063

Keep in touch with me at

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeyondtheTrippodcast

Insta: dresmedark

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-esme-dark-627156a0/

Website: https://www.esmedarkpsychology.com.au/

Find Monash Clinical Psychedelic Lab at www.monash.edu/psychedelics [http://www.monash.edu/psychedelics]

Disclaimer: This Podcast is for general information only and does noy constitute an endorsement or recommendation for psychedelic assisted psychotherapy

Dr Bill Richards: Living until you die: Psychedelic Assisted Therapy at the end of life

 This mini-series explores how psychedelic-assisted therapy meets us at the edges of existence — in dying, in grief, and in the quiet question of what endures when life as we knew it changes or ends.



Beyond the Trip Mini Series: Life, Death and What Remains

Simon Yugler is a depth psychotherapist, psychedelic educator, and author of Psychedelics and the Soul: A Mythic Guide to Psychedelic Healing, Depth Psychology, and Cultural Repair (North Atlantic Books, 2024). With a master’s in depth counseling psychology from Pacifica Graduate Institute, he’s taught in leading psychedelic training programs including CIIS, Naropa University, and Inner Trek.

Drawing from Jungian psychology, mythology, and Internal Family Systems, Simon helps facilitators, therapists, and healers reconnect to the liminal wilds of the soul. His work is shaped by years of anthropological research and learning from Indigenous traditions around the world, including the Shipibo ayahuasca lineage and the Native American Church.

We explore:

· Simon’s connection to Australia

· Indigenous perspectives in psychedelics,

· Psychedelic culture in Oregon

· Depth psychology and psychedelics

· Simons new book psychedelics and the soul

·  Training in psychedelic therapy and its challenges

· Therapist burnout

· Cultural healing and psychedelics

Reading list

Simon Yugler: Psychedelics and the Soul  https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/204639597-psychedelics-and-the-soul

Joseph Campbell : https://www.jcf.org/

Michael Meade: https://www.mosaicvoices.org/

Robert Bly: https://www.robertbly.com/

https://www.amazon.com.au/Women-Who-Run-Wolves-Archetype/dp/0345409876

https://www.bps.org.uk/member-networks/division-clinical-psychology/power-threat-meaning-framework

Keep in touch with me at

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeyondtheTrippodcast

Insta: dresmedark

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-esme-dark-627156a0/

Website: https://www.esmedarkpsychology.com.au/

Find Simon at: https://www.simonyugler.com/about

Find Monash Clinical Psychedelic Lab at www.monash.edu/psychedelics [http://www.monash.edu/psychedelics]

Disclaimer: This Podcast is for general information only and does noy constitute an endorsement or recommendation for psychedelic assisted psychotherapy

Simon Yugler: Psychedelics and the Soul

  In this episode, I interview the team of Sacred Roots. They bring together Indigenous and non-Indigenous therapists and healers to bridge Indigenous wisdom and embodied practice into the growing field of clinical Psychedelic Assisted Therapy (PAT).

Through two-way learning, they hope to stimulate critical discussion, embodied practice and further research into this important field – for right relationship, respect, and the greatest possibility for our collective healing and wellbeing.

im joined by Dr. Carlie Atkinson – CEO of We Al-li, Associate Professor of Social Work (Melbourne University)

Jem Stone – Co-founder of IPAT (Indigenous Psychedelic Assisted Therapies), We Al-li Facilitator & Wayapa Wuurrk Lead Trainer

Kirt Mallie – Co-founder of IPAT, Psychedelic-Assisted Therapist, We Al-li Facilitator & Wayapa Wuurrk Trainer

Mei Lai Swan – Sacred Roots Co-ordinator, Embodied Nature Therapies & Yoga for Humankind, Social Worker, Somatic and Psychedelic-Assisted Therapist & Educator

We cover the following topics :

The philosophy of Sacred Roots

Founding and values of Sacred Roots

Indigenous cultural exchange in peru

Therapist Training

Impact of cultural exchange of therapists

Upcoming trip plans – taking group of PAT therapists to Peru

Where to find out more about this trip

https://sacredroots.au/

https://www.onaya.io [https://www.onaya.io/]

Keep in touch with me at

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeyondtheTrippodcast

Insta: dresmedark

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-esme-dark-627156a0/

Website: https://www.esmedarkpsychology.com.au/

Disclaimer: This Podcast is for general information only and does noy constitute an endorsement or recommendation for psychedelic assisted psychotherapy

Sacred Roots: Right Relationship, Respect, and Psychedelic Healing

 In this episode, I’m joined by Dr Rosalind Watts — a clinical psychologist whose work as the Clinical Lead for Imperial College London’s psilocybin trial has made her one of the most influential voices in psychedelic research.

Named among the 50 Most Influential People in Psychedelics and the Top 16 Women Shaping the Future of Psychedelics, Dr Watts stands out for her focus on integration, harm-reduction, and inclusion in the psychedelic space. Drawing inspiration from nature, she has developed tools and structures to foster connectedness after psychedelic experiences.

One of her key insights from her time in the field has been that safe and effective use of psychedelics depends on robust integration support. This led her to co-found ACER — Accept, Connect, Embody, Restore — a global online integration community where participants embark on a 13-month journey to connect more deeply with themselves, others, and nature.

We explore:

· Her early work in psychedelic research

· Sustainable practice in psychedelic therapy

· Challenges facing the psychedelic field

· The tension between medical models of distress and psychedelic work

· Nature as a therapeutic ally

· The ACER integration community

Find Dr Rosalind Watts at: https://www.drrosalindwatts.com/

ACER Integration: https://acerintegration.com/

Recommended Readings

keep in touch with me at Insta: dresmedark

Check out our new YouTube Channel  https://www.youtube.com/@BeyondtheTrippodcast

Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/dr-esme-dark-627156a0/

Website: https://www.esmedarkpsychology.com.au/

· Find Monash Clinical Psychedelic Lab at www.monash.edu/psychedelics [http://www.monash.edu/psychedelics]

The Hologram by Cassie Thornton: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/53425744-the-hologram

If Women Rose Rooted by Sharon Blackie: https://sharonblackie.net/if-women-rose-rooted/

 Disclaimer: This podcast if for general information only and does not constitute an endorsement or recommendation for psychedelic- assisted psychotherapy.

Dr Rosalind Watts: Accept, Connect, Embody, Restore

In this episode, I’m joined by Campbell Townsend, Clinical Psychologist and Senior Research Consultant at Monash University’s Clinical Psychedelic Research Lab. With experience as a trial therapist on the Psilocybin for GAD study and training through MAPS, Campbell brings a grounded yet imaginative approach to psychedelic-assisted therapy.

Don’t miss our upcoming “Deepening Psychedelic-Assisted Therapy with Somatics and Metaphor”


In this experiential training, you’ll learn how to use metaphor and somatic tools to enhance Psychedelic assisted Psychotherapy. Whether you're a seasoned therapist or new to this space, this workshop offers practical strategies you can apply immediately.

Register now and bring more depth, embodiment, and imagination into your psychedelic practice https://www.esmedarkpsychology.com.au/media-1

In this episode we explore how metaphor is the language of psychedelic and how it can deepen therapeutic work across all stages of the psychedelic process. We also dive into somatic approaches, discussing how tuning into the body can enhance emotional integration and healing.

Themes include:

· The power of metaphor in psychedelic therapy

· Embodied connection: working somatically with clients

· Embracing curiosity and playfulness in clinical work

· Practical tools to weave metaphor and body-based methods into sessions

keep in touch with me at Insta: dresmedark

Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/dr-esme-dark-627156a0/

website: https://www.esmedarkpsychology.com.au/

Find Monash Clinical Psychedelic Lab at www.monash.edu/psychedelics

Find Campbell Townsend at https://islandpsychology.com.au/campbell-townsend

Disclaimer: This podcast if for general information only and does not constitute an endorsement or recommendation for psychedelic- assisted psychotherapy.

Campbell Townsend: Deepening Psychedelic assisted Psychotherapy with Somatics and Metaphor 

In this episode Im joined by Lucine Eusani, Lucine is an Embodiment Facilitator, Internal Family Systems (IFS) Therapist and Psychedelic Integration Specialist.

We both draw on IFS a lot in our work and share our respective journeys with combining this approach with psychedelic work. We discuss our different pathways into this work, explore parallels between different somatic approaches such as 5 rhythms and psychedelic therapy, outline some key concept from internal family systems and share a little about how this work has impacted us personally.

Lucine originally trained as a mediator, with an MA and Mphil in Conflict Resolution, Lucine spent a decade in South America working in mediation, facilitating of conflict resolution trainings, offering trauma informed yoga, and studying indigenous Amazonian shamanic traditions. With 2 decades as a trauma informed embodiment facilitator, she also became a 5Rhythms teacher in 2015. Lucine is trained in Internal Family Systems therapy (Level 1 and 2), as well as Somatic IFS for individuals and Intimacy from the Inside Out (IFIO) for couples who want to work with their parts in relationship.

Her 1:1 work is somatically guided and trauma informed, embedded in a deep respect for traditional plant medicines and embodied healing practices, and firmly grounded in the IFS therapeutic model. Lucine currently offers consultancy with training therapists for clinical trials in psychedelic therapy, as well as a 1:1 therapy practice specialising in Somatic IFS and IFS groupwork workshops.

Find Lucine at : www.lucineeusani.com [http://www.lucineeusani.com/]

keep in touch with me at Insta: dresmedark

Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/dr-esme-dark-627156a0/

website: https://www.esmedarkpsychology.com.au/

Find Monash Clinical Psychedelic Lab at www.monash.edu/psychedelics

Lucine Eusani: Internal Family Systems and Psychedelic Assisted Psychotherapy

 Beyond the Trip: A Psychedelic Therapy Podcast will be exploring themes relating to the therapy part of psychedelic- assisted psychotherapy as well as discussing some important ethical, cultural and systemic considerations to hold in mind when working in this space. You can expect wide ranging conversations with thought leaders and other inspiring humans working in this field and beyond.

Your host, Dr Esme Dark is a clinical psychologist, somatic therapist and a psychedelic -assisted psychotherapist with over 15 years of experience working in the mental health space in Australia, UK and Thailand. She hopes to dispel some myths about psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy and bring a greater understanding to the community about the process, and the beauty, complexities and challenges that go along with it.

Keep in touch at Insta dresmedark

https://www.youtube.com/@BeyondtheTrippodcast

https://www.esmedarkpsychology.com.au/about

Find out more about the Clinical Psychedelic Lab at Monash University below:-

www.monash.edu/psychedelics

This podcast is for general information only and does not constitute an endorsement or recommendation for psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy.

Esme Dark

Shows