In this episode of Beyond the Trip, I’m joined by Associate Professor Vanessa Beesley, a behavioural scientist and Team Head of the Psychedelic Medicine and Supportive Care Group at QIMR Berghofer Medical Research Institute, to explore the intersection of grief, psychedelic-assisted therapy and supportive care.

Vanessa led the PARTING Trial, investigating psilocybin-assisted supportive therapy for prolonged grief.

We recorded this conversation several months ago for a planned mini-series exploring psychedelic-assisted therapy at the end of life. While it’s taken a little longer than expected to reach you, I’m pleased to share this important discussion, particularly as we consider how psychedelic-assisted therapy might support people navigating profound loss, grief and the complexities of being human.

We explore:

 * Psilocybin-assisted therapy for prolonged grief: The PARTING Trial and the potential role of psychedelic-assisted therapy in supporting people living with complex and enduring grief.
 * Grief, loss and end-of-life care: The unique challenges of working therapeutically with profound loss, and the possibilities and limitations of psychedelic approaches.
 * Indigenous perspectives and research: The importance of inclusion, cultural perspectives and more thoughtful approaches to research in this emerging field.
 * Creative arts in psychedelic therapy: How creativity and expressive practices might support therapeutic exploration and meaning-making.
 * Building psychedelic research communities: Vanessa’s work organising the Northern Australian Psychedelic Science (NAPs) Conference, which I had the pleasure of attending.

Vanessa brings a wealth of experience in psycho-oncology, supportive care and behavioural science, alongside a commitment to person-centred approaches to health and wellbeing. This conversation invites us to think more deeply about how research, creativity and compassionate care might come together when supporting people through some of life's most challenging experiences.

Resources: I’ve included links to Vanessa’s research papers below for anyone who would like to explore her work further.

Content note: This episode discusses grief, death and suicide. If anything raised in this conversation brings up distress or you need support, you can contact Lifeline in Australia on 13 11 14, available 24/7.

Find Vanessa: https://www.qimrb.edu.au/about/our-people/associate-professor-vanessa-beesley

Keep in touch with me at

Beyond the Trip Podcast available anywhere you listen to Podcasts:-

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeyondtheTrippodcast

Insta: dresmedark

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-esme-dark-627156a0/

Website: https://www.esmedarkpsychology.com.au/

Find Monash Clinical Psychedelic Lab at www.monash.edu/psychedelics [http://www.monash.edu/psychedelics]

Disclaimer: This Podcast is for general information only and does noy constitute an endorsement or recommendation for psychedelic assisted psychotherapy

 Associate Professor Vanessa Beesley: Grief, Psychedelic Therapy and Finding Meaning After Loss 

What happens when a radically different approach to mental health treatment meets an established healthcare system?

In this episode of Beyond the Trip, we explore what it really takes to bring psychedelic-assisted therapy into mainstream mental healthcare in Australia — from the therapy room to the systems and structures needed to support a new model of care.

I’m joined by Monica Schweickle, clinical psychologist and one of Australia’s leading psychedelic-assisted therapists, and Chris Raine, mental health entrepreneur and co-founder of The Psychedelic Consultancy.

Monica was the first psychologist in the world to provide legal MDMA-assisted therapy to a client with PTSD outside of a clinical trial. With 20 years’ experience working across trauma, veterans’ mental health, domestic and family violence, government services and private practice, she brings a deeply clinical and practical perspective to the emerging field.

Chris brings a systems and innovation perspective. As the founder of Hello Sunday Morning and co-founder of Clean Slate Clinic, he has spent years developing new approaches to addiction and mental healthcare. As a 2024 Kenneth Myer Innovation Fellow, he also played a role in helping establish Australia’s psychedelic-assisted therapy system and support access for its first 100 patients.

Together, we talk about the realities of building psychedelic therapy in Australia — what is working, what needs to change, and what we can learn as this field develops.

We explore:

• Their very different journeys into psychedelic therapy
• What it takes to work within — and change — the Australian mental health system
• The role of consultancy in supporting the emerging psychedelic therapy sector
• Different therapeutic modalities and approaches to psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy
• The potential role of psychedelic therapies in reducing reliance on antidepressant medication
• The emerging Maudsley guidelines and what they mean for practice
• The hopes, challenges and risks of bringing psychedelic therapy into mainstream care

And ultimately, we ask: Are psychedelics simply giving us another treatment option — or could they invite us to rethink mental healthcare altogether?

This is a conversation about clinical practice, systems change, innovation and the future of mental health care in Australia.





Monica Schweickle and Chris Raine: Beyond the Trip: Can Psychedelics Change Mental Healthcare?

 In this episode, I’m joined by Pedram Dara, founder and director of Psychedelic Lived Experiences, a global patient-led initiative working to bring lived experience into the heart of psychedelic research, clinical practice, and policy.

Drawing on his own experience as a participant in an MDMA-assisted therapy clinical trial, Pedram shares his journey from patient to advocate and discusses some of the key milestones in the evolution of psychedelic-assisted treatments. We explore the growing recognition of lived experience as a vital source of knowledge and how patient perspectives can strengthen safety, ethics, treatment outcomes, and institutional decision-making.

Our conversation covers the impact of the Psychedelic Lived Experiences Summit, which has brought together thousands of participants, therapists, researchers, and policymakers from around the world. We also discuss the challenges and opportunities of integrating lived experience into clinical systems, the importance of flexibility within therapeutic models, and why long-term therapeutic relationships may be essential for many people undergoing psychedelic treatment.

Finally, Pedram shares his vision for structured advisory boards, training integration, and more accountable systems that place patients and participants at the centre of innovation.

This is a thoughtful and timely conversation about what it means to build a psychedelic ecosystem that is not only evidence-based, but also deeply informed by the people whose lives are most affected by these treatments.

https://pedramdara.com/

https://psychedeliclivedexperiences.com/summit

Keep in touch with me at

Beyond the Trip Podcast available anywhere you listen to Podcasts:-

https://open.spotify.com/show/5g1sms2EXq72NW64nVQhzC?si=ff3548af32e84bf6

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeyondtheTrippodcast

Insta: dresmedark

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-esme-dark-627156a0/

Website: https://www.esmedarkpsychology.com.au/

Pedram Dara Centering Lived Experience in Psychedelic Care

Welcome to Part 2 of my interview series with Dr Marg Ross, clinical psychologist and Chief Principal Investigator of Australia’s first psychedelic-assisted therapy trial exploring psilocybin for end-of-life distress.

Marg has trained therapists and medical professionals around the world in psychedelic-assisted therapy and palliative care, bringing a deep interest in cultural rituals, altered states of consciousness, and the meaning-making processes that arise at the end of life. Her work is also informed by learning from Indigenous medicine practitioners, shaping a more expansive understanding of healing and human distress.

In our conversation, we explore psychedelic therapy as a profoundly existential experience—one that invites awe, perspective shifts, and deep personal growth. We talk about the importance of preparation, the cultural and relational dimensions of suffering, and what her research reveals about how people can transform their relationship to death and dying.

We also reflect on the role of documentary in capturing these intimate journeys, and what it means to witness this kind of care in practice.

Find Marg at 

https://www.studioimmersivetherapy.com.au/

Edge of Life Documentary – out on Apple TV

Paper on Trial results - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40858059/

Keep in touch with me at

Beyond the Trip Podcast available anywhere you listen to Podcasts:-

https://open.spotify.com/show/5g1sms2EXq72NW64nVQhzC?si=ff3548af32e84bf6

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeyondtheTrippodcast

Insta: dresmedark

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-esme-dark-627156a0/

Website: https://www.esmedarkpsychology.com.au/

Dr Marg Ross: Edge of life: Part 2

Beyond the Trip is delighted to be collaborating with  Kyle Buller from Psychedelics Today for this episode, where we discuss many topics, including

Psychedelic policy in Australia vs the US

Challenges and cost of Psychedelic-assisted Psychotherapy in both countries

Psychedelics in end-of-life care

Integrating somatic therapy into psychedelic sessions

Adapting therapeutic frameworks for use in Psychedelic-Assisted therapy

In 2016, Kyle Buller and Joe Moore co-founded Psychedelics Today [https://www.psychedelicstoday.com/], one of the world’s leading psychedelic media and education companies. Kyle's interest in exploring non-ordinary states of consciousness began at the age of 16 when he suffered a traumatic snowboarding accident. After this near-death experience, Kyle’s life changed dramatically. Kyle subsequently earned his B.A. in Transpersonal Psychology from Burlington College, where he focused on studying the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness by exploring shamanism, Reiki, local medicinal plants and plant medicine, Holotropic Breathwork, and psychedelic psychotherapy.

Kyle earned his M.S. in clinical mental health counseling with an emphasis in somatic psychology from Prescott College. Kyle’s clinical background in mental health consists of working with at-risk teenagers in crisis and with individuals experiencing an early episode of psychosis and providing counseling to undergraduate/graduate students in a university setting. Kyle also has experience offering psychotherapy services specializing in psychedelic integration, spiritual emergence, and ketamine-assisted psychotherapy.

Find Kyle here :- https://www.psychedelicstoday.com/

Keep in touch with me at

Beyond the Trip Podcast available anywhere you listen to Podcasts:-

https://open.spotify.com/show/5g1sms2EXq72NW64nVQhzC?si=ff3548af32e84bf6

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeyondtheTrippodcast

Insta: dresmedark

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-esme-dark-627156a0/

Website: https://www.esmedarkpsychology.com.au/

Kyle Buller:  Psychedelics, Somatics and the Shadow

 In this episode of Beyond the Trip, we’re joined by Dr Marg Ross, clinical psychologist and Chief Principal Investigator of Australia’s first psychedelic-assisted therapy trial exploring the use of psilocybin for end-of-life distress.

Marg has been at the forefront of developing psychedelic-assisted therapy in Australia, helping to train therapists and medical professionals both nationally and internationally in the use of psilocybin-assisted therapy and in the psychosocial aspects of palliative care. Her work sits at the intersection of clinical science, existential psychology, and cultural approaches to death and dying.

Together, we explore Marg’s groundbreaking research into psilocybin-assisted therapy for people facing life-limiting illness and what this work is revealing about the human experience of mortality. Rather than focusing solely on symptom reduction, psychedelic therapy at the end of life often opens a deeper process of transformation—helping people reconnect with meaning, process fear, and approach death with greater peace.

We also speak candidly about the personal and professional realities of working in this space. Marg reflects on how confronting mortality—both through research and through our own lives—can shape the way we understand healing, presence, and care.

In this conversation we explore:

· The story behind Australia’s first psychedelic-assisted therapy trial for end-of-life distress

· What patients report after psilocybin therapy when facing life-limiting illness

· Why psychedelic therapy in palliative care is often about transformation rather than symptom reduction

· Cultural and ritual perspectives on death, dying, and altered states of consciousness

· The intersection between Indigenous healing traditions and contemporary medical approaches

· Therapist burnout and the importance of sustainable ways of working in emotionally demanding fields

· How coming face to face with mortality helped shape both our personal lives and our professional work

This episode is part of our special series exploring psychedelic-assisted therapy in end-of-life care and grief, where we speak with researchers and clinicians working at the edges of medicine, psychology, and the human experience of dying.

Keep in touch with me at

Beyond the Trip Podcast available anywhere you listen to Podcasts:-

https://open.spotify.com/show/5g1sms2EXq72NW64nVQhzC?si=ff3548af32e84bf6

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeyondtheTrippodcast

Insta: dresmedark

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-esme-dark-627156a0/

Website: https://www.esmedarkpsychology.com.au/

Find Dr Marg Ross at https://www.studioimmersivetherapy.com.au/

Disclaimer: This Podcast is for general information only and does noy constitute an endorsement or recommendation for psychedelic assisted psychotherapy

Dr Marg Ross: At the Edge of Life: Psychedelics and Facing Our Mortality

William A. Richards (Bill), Senior Advisor at Sunstone Therapies and a psychologist in the Center for Psychedelic and Consciousness Research at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, has been involved in psychedelic research since 1963. He also is also associated with the Program in Psychedelic Therapiesand Research at the California Institute of Integral Studies. From 1967 to 1977, he implemented projects with LSD, DPT, MDA and psilocybin at the Maryland Psychiatric Research Center, including protocols designed to investigate the promise of psychedelics in the treatment of alcoholism, depression, narcotic addiction and the psychological distress associated with terminal cancer. His recent research at Johns Hopkins, in collaboration with colleagues at New York University, has focused on the potential value of psilocybin in the continuing education of professional religious leaders from different world religions. At Sunstone Therapies, he is focused on integrating psychedelic therapy into palliative care. His book, Sacred Knowledge:Psychedelics and Religious Experiences, published by Columbia University Press, now has been translated into multiple languages.

We also explore: why psychedelic therapy is helpful in people with life limiting illnesses, what cancer clients report after psychedelic assisted therapy, the importance of involving the family in the healing process, how grief shows up in the body and how psychedelics can help us process this, societal views on death and dying and how psychedelics could help to shift these.

Bill Richards – Book

https://www.amazon.com.au/Sacred-Knowledge-Psychedelics-Religious-Experiences/dp/0231174063

Keep in touch with me at

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeyondtheTrippodcast

Insta: dresmedark

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-esme-dark-627156a0/

Website: https://www.esmedarkpsychology.com.au/

Find Monash Clinical Psychedelic Lab at www.monash.edu/psychedelics [http://www.monash.edu/psychedelics]

Disclaimer: This Podcast is for general information only and does noy constitute an endorsement or recommendation for psychedelic assisted psychotherapy

Dr Bill Richards: Living until you die: Psychedelic Assisted Therapy at the end of life

 This mini-series explores how psychedelic-assisted therapy meets us at the edges of existence — in dying, in grief, and in the quiet question of what endures when life as we knew it changes or ends.



Beyond the Trip Mini Series: Life, Death and What Remains

Simon Yugler is a depth psychotherapist, psychedelic educator, and author of Psychedelics and the Soul: A Mythic Guide to Psychedelic Healing, Depth Psychology, and Cultural Repair (North Atlantic Books, 2024). With a master’s in depth counseling psychology from Pacifica Graduate Institute, he’s taught in leading psychedelic training programs including CIIS, Naropa University, and Inner Trek.

Drawing from Jungian psychology, mythology, and Internal Family Systems, Simon helps facilitators, therapists, and healers reconnect to the liminal wilds of the soul. His work is shaped by years of anthropological research and learning from Indigenous traditions around the world, including the Shipibo ayahuasca lineage and the Native American Church.

We explore:

· Simon’s connection to Australia

· Indigenous perspectives in psychedelics,

· Psychedelic culture in Oregon

· Depth psychology and psychedelics

· Simons new book psychedelics and the soul

·  Training in psychedelic therapy and its challenges

· Therapist burnout

· Cultural healing and psychedelics

Reading list

Simon Yugler: Psychedelics and the Soul  https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/204639597-psychedelics-and-the-soul

Joseph Campbell : https://www.jcf.org/

Michael Meade: https://www.mosaicvoices.org/

Robert Bly: https://www.robertbly.com/

https://www.amazon.com.au/Women-Who-Run-Wolves-Archetype/dp/0345409876

https://www.bps.org.uk/member-networks/division-clinical-psychology/power-threat-meaning-framework

Keep in touch with me at

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeyondtheTrippodcast

Insta: dresmedark

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-esme-dark-627156a0/

Website: https://www.esmedarkpsychology.com.au/

Find Simon at: https://www.simonyugler.com/about

Find Monash Clinical Psychedelic Lab at www.monash.edu/psychedelics [http://www.monash.edu/psychedelics]

Disclaimer: This Podcast is for general information only and does noy constitute an endorsement or recommendation for psychedelic assisted psychotherapy

Simon Yugler: Psychedelics and the Soul

  In this episode, I interview the team of Sacred Roots. They bring together Indigenous and non-Indigenous therapists and healers to bridge Indigenous wisdom and embodied practice into the growing field of clinical Psychedelic Assisted Therapy (PAT).

Through two-way learning, they hope to stimulate critical discussion, embodied practice and further research into this important field – for right relationship, respect, and the greatest possibility for our collective healing and wellbeing.

im joined by Dr. Carlie Atkinson – CEO of We Al-li, Associate Professor of Social Work (Melbourne University)

Jem Stone – Co-founder of IPAT (Indigenous Psychedelic Assisted Therapies), We Al-li Facilitator & Wayapa Wuurrk Lead Trainer

Kirt Mallie – Co-founder of IPAT, Psychedelic-Assisted Therapist, We Al-li Facilitator & Wayapa Wuurrk Trainer

Mei Lai Swan – Sacred Roots Co-ordinator, Embodied Nature Therapies & Yoga for Humankind, Social Worker, Somatic and Psychedelic-Assisted Therapist & Educator

We cover the following topics :

The philosophy of Sacred Roots

Founding and values of Sacred Roots

Indigenous cultural exchange in peru

Therapist Training

Impact of cultural exchange of therapists

Upcoming trip plans – taking group of PAT therapists to Peru

Where to find out more about this trip

https://sacredroots.au/

https://www.onaya.io [https://www.onaya.io/]

Keep in touch with me at

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeyondtheTrippodcast

Insta: dresmedark

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-esme-dark-627156a0/

Website: https://www.esmedarkpsychology.com.au/

Disclaimer: This Podcast is for general information only and does noy constitute an endorsement or recommendation for psychedelic assisted psychotherapy

Sacred Roots: Right Relationship, Respect, and Psychedelic Healing

Esme Dark (@edark) · Zencastr

Esme Dark (@edark)

 Beyond the Trip: A Psychedelic Therapy Podcast will be exploring themes relating to the therapy part of psychedelic- assisted psychotherapy as well as discussing some important ethical, cultural and systemic considerations to hold in mind when working in this space. You can expect wide ranging conversations with thought leaders and other inspiring humans working in this field and beyond.

Your host, Dr Esme Dark is a clinical psychologist, somatic therapist and a psychedelic -assisted psychotherapist with over 15 years of experience working in the mental health space in Australia, UK and Thailand. She hopes to dispel some myths about psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy and bring a greater understanding to the community about the process, and the beauty, complexities and challenges that go along with it.

Keep in touch at Insta dresmedark

https://www.youtube.com/@BeyondtheTrippodcast

https://www.esmedarkpsychology.com.au/about

Find out more about the Clinical Psychedelic Lab at Monash University below:-

www.monash.edu/psychedelics

This podcast is for general information only and does not constitute an endorsement or recommendation for psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy.

Beyond the Trip: A Psychedelic Therapy Podcast with Dr Esme Dark