Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Ep. 0017 | The Greatest Seven-Letter Word
37 Plays3 days ago
In this illuminating chapter of The GR8TNESS Router, host Zena C. sits down with scholar, author, and trailblazing university president Dr. Brian L. Johnson. From his roots in Durham, North Carolina, to becoming the first minority president in Warner Pacific University’s history, Dr. Johnson shares the lessons, pivots, and defining moments that shaped his purpose-driven path.
With honesty and depth, he opens up about:
- The faith and encounters that clarified his calling
- The pivotal rejection that redirected him from law school to academia
- The resilience built by remembering where he came from
- How mentorship, integrity, and preparation remain cornerstones of leadership
Dr. Johnson reminds us that purpose isn’t static — it evolves, it pivots, and it proves itself through resilience. This is a conversation for anyone navigating their own calling and searching for the courage to keep pressing forward.
Because the greatest story you’ll ever live is the one where you remember the good, so it can prepare you for the greater.
– – –
Connect with Dr. Brian Johnson on LinkedIn, Twitter or visit intersectionoffaithandlearning.com
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Welcome
00:00:08
Speaker
This is the Greatness Router, where we connect purpose to process one conversation at a time.
00:00:24
Speaker
Welcome back, great people, to another episode of The Greatness Router.
Meet Dr. Brian L. Johnson
00:00:29
Speaker
I have an amazing guest for you today, and this is someone who is near and dear to me and helped guide me through my experience at Johnson C. Smith University.
00:00:38
Speaker
Today's guest is a scholar, leader, and history maker. Dr. Brian L. Johnson is the first minority president in Warner Pacific University's 83-year history.
00:00:51
Speaker
a role he stepped into with a lifetime of preparation. An accomplished professor, author, and administrator, Dr. Johnson has published seven books. Yeah, yeah y'all heard me. Seven books, including two on W.E.B. Du Bois.
Dr. Johnson's Academic Journey
00:01:06
Speaker
An institutional and history of our alma mater, you know, the great Johnson C. Smith University. His leadership journey included includes serving as chief of staff at and associate vice president for um academic affairs, as well as associate professor of English at Johnson C. Smith University, where he helped shape the academic experience for students and faculty alike.
00:01:31
Speaker
With a PhD in English from the University of South Carolina, specializing in 17th through 19th century um American history, Dr. Johnson has held key leadership roles at institutions like Mercy College, Tuskegee University,
00:01:46
Speaker
and Austin Peay State University.
Beyond Academia: A Multifaceted Life
00:01:49
Speaker
Beyond academia, he's a sought after speaker sharing his compelling journey from a young man's apart, y'all should look that up, to an academic leader before the age of 40.
00:02:01
Speaker
a dedicated husband and father. he's a He is as committed to his family as he is to education. Dr. Brian L. Johnson, welcome to the show. How are you? i am doing well. my My sister, Zena, just battling a little bit of a sore throat and cold. But you know once you reached out, um I was just so happy and proud and honored to be featured on this wonderful ah ah series and of podcasts you're doing. And I just think it's so wonderful. And and anytime a former student, and i now don't treat you as a former student, as a colleague um or anyone that I could be of any kind of ah blessing to, certainly I'm going to be there for it. So it's really my honor to be on your side.
00:02:47
Speaker
podcast. um I'm so grateful for you. And thank you for battling through the healing process of this, ah of of what you are overcoming. I am grateful. I'm going to speak it out of existence. We are not going to let that hang on and linger. Is there anything that I missed in this biography that we need to address up front?
00:03:07
Speaker
Oh, I just want to make sure because I'm very clear about things in this day where everybody's inspecting credentials. You said PhD to
00:03:16
Speaker
to 19th century American history, it's actually American history. I'm a literature guy, so not history. So, you know, I've been trained under Dr. Yancey, and we know that when you list your credentials, you better be accurate, because one day someone may say, hey, he doesn't have a degree in history. No, the degree is in 17th to 19th century American literature. And I don't say that to be an anal or anything, but, you know, oftentimes people ah When you get into these public spaces, um oftentimes hear videos or listen to things. And, you know, when we have the opportunity to correct, we we do. So I appreciate you saying that. But everything else is certainly spot on.
00:03:56
Speaker
Big facts. I misread. No, you're good. It's 17th to 19th century American literature. Great people. Yes, ma'am. right. Ask about it. Thank you for clarifying that and bringing that up. I appreciate that.
00:04:08
Speaker
And I do not feel bad. Those are your credentials and you worked hard for them. Okay. I completely get it. right um Okay. Well, let's hop into an icebreaker. i generally This is one that has just lingered and I am excited to hear your take on it.
Conversations with Historical Figures
00:04:25
Speaker
yeah If you could have a candid, unfiltered conversation with any historical figure, who would it be and why?
00:04:34
Speaker
Lord. That really is an icebreaker off the top. You know, I would have to say, and I know this is going to sound cheap and you know, it would have to be for me, Booker T. Washington, uh, only because, and I wish if you said two people, I would say Booker T. Washington and W.E. Du Bois. I understand. Uh, because obviously I wrote two books on Du Bois, but the experience of sitting where Booker T. Washington having, you know, he was the first president of Tuskegee university. And then I became the seventh.
00:05:07
Speaker
And when I began to be in that role, and began to understand the weight of responsibility and how he was known and how he was an interpreted and sometimes misinterpreted. And I began to write on him and understand him. I began to say, wait a minute, people talk about everything about Booker T. Washington other than him being a president.
00:05:29
Speaker
and And they didn't understand that. you know A lot of the things he did was from the standpoint, I'm a president, guys. you know I'm not primarily a politician or podcaster or you know, or someone even like DuBois.
00:05:44
Speaker
Yeah. Or like DuBois, you know, i gotta I got students I got to look after. I got faculty and staff and trustees. So I would have to say Booker T. Washington. But of course, that list could go on and on and on. But I would have to say, honestly, Booker T. Washington. And that's only because aye I am constantly writing commentaries on his letters and his speeches and his writings.
00:06:08
Speaker
And I'm just like, it's so much that people don't know about him that I just want to ask him a lot of different questions. And I've met his family and and just spent a lot of time with so many of them.
00:06:21
Speaker
And um I try to drag as much out of anybody who had any relationship to him as possible. I love that. I remember being at Howard and um really diving into the whole debate, the whole Booker T and the W.E.B. Du Bois, the education versus the trade conversations that that were had and weren't had. So I can only imagine extracting that and really going from the president's point of view, because that's a completely different mindset that you have to have when you are responsible for the well-being of an entire community like that. That's a that's a different perspective. So I would love to be a fly on that wall, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.
00:07:07
Speaker
For sure. Thank you for that. um I want to jump into one more. This one's more customized. Well, that one was customized too, but this one's more customized
Influential Mentors
00:07:14
Speaker
to you. Sure. Dr. Johnson, you have held leadership roles at some of the country's most respected institutions. Okay.
00:07:21
Speaker
Looking back, what is one lesson, if you can, that you learned as chief of staff or even being during your tenure at JCSU that still shapes how you lead today? oh wow. Wow.
00:07:35
Speaker
It goes back to sort of the correction that we made earlier about the bio. ah My training and entryway into administrative training came in 2007 under Dr. Dorothy Kousa Yancey, who I had the privilege of being one of the co-authors for her Yancey years, who I look forward to seeing her interview with you because she is preeminent among all Johnson C. Smith University alumni. Agreed. In my mind's eye.
00:08:01
Speaker
of who should be discussed and where she's like the the root and the tree and the branch. And many of us are just the fruit of it. And Dr. Yancey, what most people don't,
00:08:13
Speaker
you know about her. And of course, I know a little bit more about her, not only because I wrote her history, but because now I've been able to be, I'm a mentee of her, but sometimes I try to be like, well, Dr. Yancey, I've been a president too, but I'm still being taught by Dr. Yancey.
00:08:27
Speaker
That's all right. I love getting there fighting she's you know because she's just so smart and she's so witty. But Dr. Yancey ah You got to remember, she was the she was already tenured before she went to Johnson C. Smith in 1994, the first black woman tenure professor at Georgia Tech.
00:08:47
Speaker
She was no slouch. And so, you know, she was all about... know your stuff. yes you know She was all about whatever you discuss or whatever you write, you make sure you can back it up. you know She was all about words and works, kind of like Booker T. Washington. She was all she was thorough.
00:09:07
Speaker
You see what I'm saying? like She wasn't just talking to talk. And so you know a lot of people, will and you know I say this publicly to everybody, a lot of people like, oh, I'm a Yancyite. I got a letter of reference. She'll give advice to everybody.
00:09:20
Speaker
But if you ain't walking the way she walked for 14 years, first at Johnson T. Smith, and then another six or so years at Shaw, the woman was just incredible. She worked 24 hours a day.
00:09:35
Speaker
She knew everything that was happening in the university. She read the stuff herself. She didn't just farm out work. she didn't ask people to do stuff that she didn't know how to do.
00:09:47
Speaker
She had already been there, done that and got the t-shirt and brought it. Go in there. And then if you don't do it, what did Drake used to say? You know, I'm going do it for you and do it for myself.
00:09:59
Speaker
You got to understand in 2007, though she was my ah president when I was a student in 1994 95. That's amazing. Sitting there working with her and how sharp I just was overwhelmed and I still am overwhelmed. So the one thing i have to say, I learned from her.
00:10:18
Speaker
is just to make sure that you are doing your craft well and that you can back up anything you ever say. And I kind of took that concept and pulled that and applied that even with Booker T. Washington. And I see a lot of um the the administrative philosophy of Dr. DeAnse and Booker T. Washington as well as being a woman of of of great substance.
00:10:43
Speaker
I totally agree. That is so I agree. I co-sign on everything you said. And thank you for for instilling that in our audience. I like to say our audience because we are sharing an audience at this point. yeah What's mine is yours. Yours is is privy to what we're talking about today. So I'm totally grateful. And I'm going add to that because Dr. Yancey and you know me, look, you know, people know I'm ah i'm a truth teller.
00:11:08
Speaker
And we all got a greater appreciation for her now. But just like many presidents or Booker T. Washer many people, you talk about greatness. People inspire the greatness, but a lot of times your greatness ain't appreciated too much later yeah And so it's good to give people their flowers while they're here. But a lot of people didn't understand Dr. Yancey and why she did what she did. And even me, was protesting as a student. She pulled me in her office, sat me down and taught me some stuff.
00:11:37
Speaker
But then now 20 some years that later, when I've been protesting against the And I had to go through some of the same things as a president. I now understood. And in our university, Alma Mater has since had ah now on the third president since her departure.
00:11:54
Speaker
And everybody can now see, wait a minute, look back at what Dr. Yancey did. And we know we're happy that Val is there now, but but also look at what happened in between Dr. Yancey and where Val is.
00:12:09
Speaker
And so we have to make sure that we learn to appreciate history and be preoccupied with understanding our uniqueness and ah the issues that we must be confronted with in our own communities and As opposed to wasting time and not saying it's all wasted time, as I shared with you earlier, but we got to spend some time appreciating our own and and focusing on our own so that we are all aware.
00:12:35
Speaker
I agree. of of Of our own historical and intellectual achievements. I agree.
Faith and Purpose
00:12:41
Speaker
I totally agree. And speaking of history. Let's get behind the purpose of your work.
00:12:46
Speaker
um Let's hop into your actual router moments. I like to call this the greatness router because, you know, you turn on your router and it sends you where you need to go. All right. So if you had to pinpoint the moment you knew what you're doing right now was your calling. Wow.
00:13:02
Speaker
What would it be? Oh, my sister. Well, let me just say ah openly and not ashamedly, I'm a person of deep faith. Um, I'm not one to promulgate my personal faith anywhere, but I believe in God and I believe in the savior and I believe in Jesus Christ personally. I'm not against anybody else who believe in whatever you believe, but that's how I've led my life to the best of my ability. And wherever I feel have fallen short, that's on me. But everything I aspire to has been through, um my preoccupation with my faith and, um,
00:13:39
Speaker
ah and and what I've learned and discerned from the Bible. um So it's really difficult, but we opened, and this was off but camera, but we talked about, you know, you didn't know I was from Durham, North Carolina. Right.
00:13:55
Speaker
Which is ridiculous. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I actually became a person of faith in my senior year at Johnson C. Smith after I had spent the year, and speaking of Dr. Yancey, you know, she helped me get in the Mellon program. I know she's helped so many people.
00:14:09
Speaker
And I had went to Florence, Italy, and, you know I saw Michelangelo's statue of David, and I come home and I grew up in the church, but the church wasn't in me. My mom went to church, and know about church.
00:14:21
Speaker
But I was kind of, you know, I was studying Dante Alighieri and the Divine Comedy. And I was just like, this real faith thing, this thing must be real. And I was in the honors college. I gave my life to Christ.
00:14:33
Speaker
And so, but really that whole senior year, you know, you're still struggling. I'm still partying. I'm still with my frat brothers. I'm still, you know, hey, I'm a college student. up right But it was really when I, that the year after I graduated,
00:14:49
Speaker
I actually went to law school first before I pursued my PhD. I stayed there for a semester. Okay. North Carolina on a Central and Durham. And that summer I had an internship at the State Bureau of Investigation. and And really I experienced some some tremendous discrimination there, to be honest. I was a lead intern with the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill Institute of Government.
00:15:13
Speaker
And I was supposed to be doing a lot of stuff with the State Bureau of Investigation. I end up doing things, but it wasn't what my the performer enters. I don't want to blame racism. Let's just say I had a different experience. But what I did, was able to do, was to use that experience to go back.
00:15:32
Speaker
And I had an ID. I could get into the prisons. So I went and started interviewing my friends and guys who I grew up with. um in Few Gardens down in North Carolina.
00:15:44
Speaker
And long and the short of it was, I really had an epiphany that, wait a minute, I know i've you know i'm kind of you know i'm I'm just an average guy. I graduated from college. I'm going to law school in the fall.
00:15:56
Speaker
But man, look at so many people from my community, jailed. jail prison, you know, not even graduating from high school. And I'm like, I'm still struggling.
00:16:07
Speaker
But I was like, man, it's still such a gap. And so I wrote an autobiographical article that you referenced. and it was published on August 31st, 1995. They put the title on and A Young Man Apart, A World Apart. I didn't put a title on it. I just wanted to tell my story.
00:16:25
Speaker
But I realized at that moment, as I began to use pieces of the interview, and I began to use pieces of the of my life and what I had done that like, and actually in the last paragraph, i said, I know God has a purpose for me.
00:16:40
Speaker
yeah I don't know what it is. um And that word for me, purpose, which I believe is the greatest seven letter word, okay is something that I believe strongly in every student, every person, every life that everybody, whatever your path, whatever your faith, you need to find your purpose because the purpose ain't here just to get money, get the bag, get, you know, all that stuff. We all are going to go the same way and great go go the same way of the earth.
00:17:11
Speaker
But we need to make sure that we did the thing that Zena was uniquely created to do that. Brian uniquely created to do. My children, my students, and everybody. So I would say August 31st, 1995, with the publication of that
Evolving Purpose
00:17:25
Speaker
story from the inner city, led me to constantly seek my purpose. And let me just say this.
00:17:33
Speaker
um calling, which I believe the second greatest seven letter word is, I think it's progressive, right? So that was one part. I knew he was doing something, but with each successive step, you know, going back to John C. Smith, getting a master's first, getting a master's, getting a PhD, John C. Smith, it often, peace state, Tuskegee, mercy college, Warner Pacific. And then whatever's next for me, I think,
00:17:59
Speaker
Everything is progressive. And that's why I don't really look at past achievements and things. Cause I think that's where people mess up. They, they start sitting in the past works. I'm like, nah, what's next? You know, don't talk about, love you know, we, I don't mind talking about what I did, but I ain't dead. I'm only 51 years old. So look, plan on being around a long time, Lord willing.
00:18:25
Speaker
So for me, it's like, It's never an end game, but you start getting closer and closer to knowing what that purpose and calling. And for me, I know I've been called to be a professor, scholar, administrator, heel of higher ed.
00:18:38
Speaker
And oftentimes that title culminates into a presidency, but presidencies come and go, but the person behind it don't come and go. So I'll always be Brian Johnson said and just know that fundamentally, whatever the title is, I'm always going to be a professor, scholar and administrator.
00:18:56
Speaker
is as ah as the package of who I am. i respect that. I do. Wherever that lands, so to speak, for my purpose. Okay. i love that that that article was a pivotal moment for you, which takes me which was taking me into the next question, but I feel like you answered it. But I want to make sure that I have picked up what you dropped along the way. Okay.
00:19:17
Speaker
So the pivot point from what I can tell based off of the the story you just outlined is that you had a a an internship that was sub or an assistantship or, you know, you had an apprenticeship that you were to be partaking in yes and you were headed in the direction of law.
00:19:37
Speaker
However, that was a monumental moment for you that caused you to pivot right and then, know, you you went right into, you know, a whole new wave of life. Is that, is would that be accurate?
00:19:50
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. and and And in that moment, you should know, see, I always knew I wanted to get a PhD English, but frankly, I believe I was a little afraid, you know, I was like, You know, I went to North Carolina Central Law School for a semester. Like, well, let me hide it back out in Durham a little bit, you know, hindsight being 20-20, you know, and, you know, let me be around my people and let me.
00:20:11
Speaker
But law school, I wasn't really built for law school. Law school is about matter of fact, like X on the contract. That's a done deal. I was like, I was too much of a thinker. I want to think behind what's going on. And so you got to really be built for law school. My son wants to go to law school. So I would just say that was a pivotal moment because having come to my faith the year before in 1994, in the summer of 1995, as I'm writing that article, going to law school, I'm processing a lot of things.
00:20:42
Speaker
And it turn ultimately turned me to say, look, I need to get on the path that God has for me. And that's leave this law school, go on to get your PhD and go on to fulfill the purpose you have.
00:20:55
Speaker
I love this conversation because it echoes a conversation I previously had with with Dr. Ingram. ah yeah smith Yeah, you you know, you know it's ah Dr. Frederick Ingram. sure youd rather yeah Yes, your brother.
00:21:09
Speaker
so he also was was headed to to law school and and encountered a a um divine intervention that pivoted him to go into academia. So this is just amazing. Even for our listeners, I really want you to to pinpoint or recognize that that oh, how do I say this and still be say be balanced? Because what i don't want I don't like to force my way on other people as well.
00:21:39
Speaker
But there is a purpose for each and every one of us. And when you take the time to listen, it's a lot easier to pivot than tripping into your purpose. Amen. Amen. They both are are imperative, but the the root of the matter is really finding what you were placed here for and really leaning into that and owning that level of and that degree of greatness so that you can open the doors to to greater things. so Thank you for reiterating that previous conversation as well as sharing it with our, with our listeners. I really need them to understand that we may have an idea of what we want to do.
00:22:17
Speaker
We may think we know what we want to do. We may think we know what we're great at, but sometimes you got to trip. Sometimes you got to go and you got to skin your knee a little bit. Sometimes it's during that healing process that that pivot truly comes. So thank you. And that pivot will be affirmed, right? Because, you know,
00:22:35
Speaker
I always say, you you know, you test and prove purpose, right? If you say you can sing and anybody ever told you you can sing, you got kind of look at that, right? Like, but then when you start going, it's like, I don't talk about strengths and weaknesses. I talk about strengths and non-scripts.
00:22:51
Speaker
So you doing this podcast, I don't think I have that as a strength to do that. I think he's doing a fabulous job. your empathy you no i know you know you have to lean into testing out whoa i can do this i can write i can read i can think i could i could do these i and it's affirmed and so i think once you start tripping over things you didn't do well then you'll realize Oh, let me go in the direction where I am doing things well. And and even then your your opportunities will expand. So you don't limit yourself to say you couldn't do a podcast. But at the same time, until that door opens in it and it's proven that you could do that, you just keep going with what ah the purpose youre you're you has been made for you.
00:23:35
Speaker
I can appreciate that. Thank you for for underlining
Resilience and Overcoming Challenges
00:23:38
Speaker
that. um But you you brought it resilience without saying the word resilience. let's let's let's happen to Let's hop into that. And you have alluded to it and you've been direct, but i at least i'm I'm presuming that what your answer is going to be is something you've already addressed.
00:23:53
Speaker
What keeps you in the game when things aren't going smoothly? Yeah. So we we just talked about like purpose and knowing your history and your narrative and your testimony.
00:24:04
Speaker
One of the things you, I think you really have to do is to reflect on your personal history, right? um You have to remind yourself, like, you know, I'm i'm a big, you know, i write commentaries, but I've written a lot more commentaries in journals that I've never, ever published.
00:24:20
Speaker
Because if you don't remind yourself what you did, the world will tell you You ain't never been the president of nowhere. You didn't write your alma mater's history. You didn't, you ain't written seven books. You ain't never had a fellowship at Harvard.
00:24:35
Speaker
The world will forget you. And I've been in those situations where it's kind of like, dang, Maybe I just made all this up. Or no, you were unanimously appointed as president of Tuskegee. You know, you were unanimously, you know, like if you don't remind yourself, so it's dark parts of resist or forget all those kinds of credentials that people know.
00:24:57
Speaker
No, you didn't know. You did grow up first generation, you know, across the street from few gardens, one of the worst environments in Durham, North Carolina so bad that after I wrote that article three years later, they tore down the whole project. Oh, snap. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and all of my, you know, my elementary school is no more. My middle school is no more. du My high school is no. Yeah, that that's my story.
00:25:22
Speaker
So you got to remind yourself, wait a minute. God brought you through all that. Yes. You still sitting here sane and with your family and provided for and ain't, you know, so resilience for me is about, you better learn to take stock.
00:25:41
Speaker
Yes. In what, what God did do or what you did endure and come through. Yes. You don't go back and sit in it though. Like I told you earlier, you know, I don't go back and sit in no accomplishment.
00:25:54
Speaker
You can best believe when I'm, I don't see any progress going forward. And I feel like giving up. I look back and be like, Oh, I came out of that. I came out of that. I came out of that. And it really starts building a strong confidence. And then even people who observe you be like, what in the world?
00:26:12
Speaker
How did you do that? Or how did she do that? I didn't do that. So I think resilience is very important. And you got to teach students and tell people about journal writing.
00:26:23
Speaker
It's not about affirming all the good things about yourself and not the negative non-scripts about yourself. I do both like, oh yeah, I did. But when you're in resilience, you got to remind yourself, no, this is the good that I did. This is the yeah good I did. Look, yes you know no man or woman is all good, all bad, but no, I got to love on myself enough to to to love on. No, you're not going to tell me I did this with that intention or that ah that purpose. That's how you took it or how you were impacted.
00:26:52
Speaker
And so when you start affirming all that, the the the good that's in you by the grace of God, you know, you you really get a different perspective and you wake up and you start that day and just it it doesn't matter what you're confronting. And so I think with resilience, people really need to learn to rehearse and recount things.
00:27:12
Speaker
the goodness ah The goodness of their parents. You know, I've lost both of my parents now. And, you know, I don't I don't wake up somber all the time. Sometimes I get a little sad, but yeah, did i but I got to remember all of what my mom put in me. you Absolutely. The love of reading. ah You shared stories about your dad and and how you grew up and and the passion of my father. And he he was a risk taker. He was something else. You know, he he know no fear. And so, you know, so my whole thing is, you know, you got to remind yourself of the good and and but so it can propel you to the future.
00:27:51
Speaker
I think that's incredibly valuable. Remind yourself but of the good so it can prepare you for the greater. You should use that. Ooh! Message. prepare yourself Remind yourself of the good so it can prepare you for the greater.
00:28:04
Speaker
i love it. I love it. That that is... A monumental statement. And I think that it is imperative that even our listeners really stop and take an audit of themselves, the good, the bad and the ugly, but don't stay on the ugly and the bad. Like the the good is really going to outweigh all of those things.
00:28:26
Speaker
But they also have to exist. You have to recognize that the ugly and the bad is going to exist. right it will not outweigh all of the good that that comes even from those bad situations. you there There are so many lessons in our tribulations and in our trials, in our hiccups, in our failures that we often skate over. Right. Which is it is doing us a huge disservice in my from my point of view. Right. um So yes, thank you for that. Listeners, I hope you have your notepads out.
00:28:57
Speaker
Okay. um All right. So we've talked about the router moments. Let's hop into application. um and And these can be tidbits that our listeners can take away, the gemstones that they can they can walk away with.
00:29:09
Speaker
um Let's talk about lessons for others. What is one mindset shift or practice that has helped you to succeed?
Defining Success
00:29:16
Speaker
Hmm. So I think all of us, especially JCSU alumni, we we're overachievers being trained by Dr. Yancey and having so many great people.
00:29:29
Speaker
ah But the mind shifts that you can do you can do your very best ah and and you can do everything right. and And the notion that you also are living in a world filled with other people, with other ideas and other opinions.
00:29:52
Speaker
Even your best can sometimes not be good enough, not because it wasn't good enough for your purpose and what you were supposed to do, but because of your interrelationship as a human to other people.
00:30:06
Speaker
Come on now. And so you you can't use what... You did, especially now, you know, you you talk about taking an audit now. When you take an audit yourself, if you didn't do the work, i ain't talking about if you didn't do the work. ain't talking about if you you didn't try your best. ain't talk about if you didn't go to work.
00:30:24
Speaker
I'm talking about when you know that you did everything you could, if you really possible do, even with your flaws. and it still maybe is not received or didn't work out the way you planned, you got to remember, I always tell people, we all live in a bad neighborhood. tom Tom Nolan says this, and that neighborhood is called Earth. so you know And so that neighborhood, you know i know from experience walking down the project, you might go put on jewelry and everything else and look clean.
00:30:54
Speaker
You ain't walking through that project community without having... Some, some, somebody yelling at you, somebody chasing you. And so my point is, um, the biggest mindset shift was to do your best and you got to leave the rest to can call it God. You can call it providence. You got to leave it to, because your best is just one part of a wider world. Yeah.
00:31:20
Speaker
And that mind shift shifts helps you because whereas your best in that situation may not work for you, but your best for another situation may be perfect for another situation. true So that's what I mean by, you know, purpose is always evolving and it's always taking you somewhere. And I've always, I've always seen that, like, you know, you know, you,
00:31:44
Speaker
Everything you've done, it builds upon the next thing. That's why you got to learn to rehearse and recount where you've been and what you've done, because in it lies the seeds for where you're going.
00:31:56
Speaker
And you got to just make sure that you don't, you can't control everything. And you're not going to control everything. That's big. I think i think recognizing that you have done everything in your power, right you have exceeded everything that you can possibly do.
00:32:18
Speaker
right It's okay. like Like you, you let, let go. if you have done everything to be the best version of yourself possible, then you have done what you needed to do.
00:32:29
Speaker
Right. Then you then have to allow, if you want to call it fate, if you want to call it God, if you want to call it whatever you may name it, whatever is beyond you. What's that meme? It's above me now.
00:32:41
Speaker
Oh, yeah. there There was a whole meme. It was a young man. he was um He was working in in in customer service at a whole hotel and someone had come up in front of him and was just blessing him out. he was like, look, it's above me now. I have done everything that I can possibly do. I know you have no dog in this fight. I cannot.
00:33:00
Speaker
Send me that meme. That's a nice meme. I like, I like, look, I like sharing quotes and things that reflect ah strong biblical principles. And, you know, most people, you know, that's why I'm saying you don't have to always share the Bible, but there are a lot of things that reflect strong spiritual truth. I agree.
00:33:18
Speaker
If you learn to grasp the truth, it don't matter who's the vehicle for it. So that's one of the biggest things that I wish people would learn about their faith that you can everything you can learn from hearing this this. Dr. Johnson, you just affirmed something for me that a conversation I was having with myself. And yes, great people. I have conversations with myself. It was a conversation. I'm i'm going to reserve the conversation, but you just affirmed it for me.
00:33:42
Speaker
um So thank you for that. And um i'm I'm grateful for this conversation because, they oh okay. All right. Well, there we go. That was an imperative lesson. yeah Let's talk about your process.
00:33:59
Speaker
um How has your thinking evolved as you've advanced?
Leadership Experience
00:34:03
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. You know, cause you're not the same young man from, from, uh, from the garden, you know, I mean, you are, but you are a grown, evolved, polished version. how has that blossomed?
00:34:17
Speaker
Well, I think it's blossomed through experience and experience is the big thing. Um, trials, uh, and, and I want to just stick with experience. See, it's one thing to study on being a president.
00:34:31
Speaker
And, you know, we got a lot of people who aspire to be a president. yeah or commentates, I'm just using that as an example for those who want to be a president. ah But nothing can replace... being a president, right? You see mean?
00:34:44
Speaker
The experience of it. So I had a lot of ideas writing Dr. Yancey's history. I had a lot of ideas being a chief of staff to her successor. I had a lot of ideas being a VP.
00:34:55
Speaker
I had a lot of ideas about what presidents should do. I had a lot of commentary on presidents, but it was only until I became one yeah that brings in the kind of maturation and seasoning that that corrects what you thought and what you believe and what you even said.
00:35:18
Speaker
And I'm just using that as example. People can extrapolate that for their own, whatever it is. The key is, you know, it's one thing to read something, but it's a different thing to be able to experience it. It's one thing to preach a sermon.
00:35:33
Speaker
It's another thing to live that sermon. It's one thing to know a quote, but it's another thing to you've experienced that quote and you can give people an answer. And one of the things I love talking about is integrity as being one of the great nine letter words because its root word is wholeness and wholeness is about, man, those sound like some good words.
00:35:53
Speaker
You know, that's a good thought on being a president. But when you got the works alongside of what you're telling people to do or what you're thinking about doing, and then you can say, now, this is how that happened in my life.
00:36:05
Speaker
That is what integrity root is rooted in. And that's what's so powerful. ah for me. And so I would just have to say the mindset is really rooted in all those things you prepare for and all those things you hope for, all those things that you believe.
00:36:21
Speaker
At some point, you've got to go out and do it and you're going to stumble, going to fall, you're going to achieve, going to get up, going to get down, you're going rise up. The experience is what's going to make all your thinking and all your words come come become alive. and And so I'm saying that the experience is what matured me versus all the nice ideas and the wonderful thoughts.
00:36:43
Speaker
about what the experience should be. You follow me? I do. I do follow. i'm pick I feel as though I'm picking up every little twig that you dropped, every broken breadcrumb. I am grateful. um Now, y'all, I've never been a president of a institution. However, I have served as the SGA president. so um And that was a completely different experience. And I'm not comparing the two, but I am applying the lesson.
00:37:10
Speaker
to what I experienced as that, you know, serving in that position. And you're you're right. Like until you are steeped in it, you think, you know, but you truly have no idea. And that don't discount that, you know i you know, don't you ever discount being an SGA president because a lot of us weren't. I wasn't an SGA president.
00:37:31
Speaker
my Actually, my chief of staff at Tuskegee was our SGA president. ah i And I admired him so much, Edward Brown, in 1994. And so many people be like, oh, well, wasn't that. But I didn't know.
00:37:44
Speaker
For your life and your purpose, there's a lot of people that's not the SGA president. And matter of fact, North Carolina State just hired... They did. it chancellor The former student government associate president. And there was something special about anybody that could get a whole university to vote you in. So don't ever discount being an SGA president. so and And don't ever discount that role in, you know, playing a role going forward. And you don't ever...
00:38:13
Speaker
damp that light in front of nobody, including a president who of a university. Don't ever say no, that well, I wasn't university president, but no, no, no. you I was an SGA president. Received.
00:38:25
Speaker
I want you to understand you were an SGA president and I wasn't. And I was a college university president and you weren't. And so I appreciate the c sentiment, but I want to make sure in your psyche, you understand that that was a big piece of your life that plays a tremendous role in the purpose you're now serving and that you're going to be serving in the future.
00:38:44
Speaker
Thank you for reframing that. yeah i i appreciate that. I receive. i Yes. um
Next Steps and Social Media Presence
00:38:50
Speaker
Okay. So what's what's next? like what are we What are we working on? Do we have any speaking engagements coming up? How can our listeners support you? How can they find you? Well, I'm in my fifth year at Warner Pacific University and me and the board of trustees were discerning the will of God concerning um how much further and how much longer and whether I will
00:39:15
Speaker
i'll keep moving forward and we'll have a, we'll have an announcement about what we'll do concerning that. I've, I've been here through the pandemic in Portland, 2020. I've been, you know, I, you know, I've been here,
00:39:30
Speaker
for five years and and we've been done team and I and the board and we just done some great things, yeah but ah I'm in a process of discerning what's next for me, Lord. And what, what, what's the next step, but I'm always present and active, not only on LinkedIn and Twitter and and Facebook, but through my own personal website, which is intersection of faith and learning.com. And so I constantly post wherever I'm going to be speaking or whatever,
00:39:59
Speaker
but My next assignment is those things. So ah I'm definitely on LinkedIn. And so ah you could definitely track where I'm going and where I'm speaking and what I'm doing either here at Warner Pacific University or.
00:40:12
Speaker
wherever else I may be consider doing in the future, ah you will always be able to find out about me there. I love that. Or follow me on Twitter. i don't I don't post a lot of personal dialogue. I do a lot of quotations and that people might find that boring.
00:40:27
Speaker
But for me, it's a way of just getting people to think about things that I want people to think about. We see a lot of things posted that's very negative. And I just want to help people in the way that I've been helped.
00:40:38
Speaker
And I've been doing that since social media, at least my entryway to social media in 2009. And that's just part of, in some ways, my ministry, because that's kind of in some ways, how I came to understanding who I am. i didn't come necessarily through my mom it shouting scriptures at me, but I came through ideas and learning about truths that like, wait a minute, this is some good stuff. And so,
00:41:02
Speaker
um If I can help one person doing that, I want to continue that. But certainly you could track me using my personal website and also follow me on LinkedIn and Twitter and and Facebook to see what I'm up to.
00:41:14
Speaker
Perfect. I'll make sure that all of that is in the description box below, everyone. um I just want to circle back to the beginning for one moment.
Why American Literature?
00:41:22
Speaker
Yes, ma'am. Now, why? And I feel as though you just plucked at but why 17th to 19th American literature? Oh, let me. Oh, thank you for that question. So I had an ad hoc minor in African-American literature. And frankly, one of the things that I wanted to do in 17th and 1960 American literature. First of all, many people, I became the first African-American in University of South Carolina, Columbia's history, ah first African-American male to receive a PhD in English literature.
00:41:59
Speaker
Literature versus composition and God bless people who are in composition. God bless EDDs and education. I wanted to be seen as someone who, yeah, and God bless I would did my master's at Wisconsin Madison and I could have continued on to do a PhD in African American studies.
00:42:19
Speaker
But I've read my people from 18th to 19th to 20th. I know African American literature back and forth and that was good and not that I devalued it. Most of my writings are in that space.
00:42:30
Speaker
But I also wanted to demonstrate that I can have mastery of the 17th century with the Puritans. And then in the 18th century with the Enlightenment thinkers, and then in the 19th century with the transcendentalists.
00:42:44
Speaker
And then within that framework where African-Americans becoming, um coming over and being enslaved during that time, it provided a dynamic for me intellectually to understand the coming into being of America and its roots and how pre- pre-Declaration of Independence and post-Declaration of Independence and even how where we are now, it opened up an entire world for me. And I've always been one, as I explained earlier, where I did a you know an internship you know and went to Florence, Italy, studying Dante Alighieri.
00:43:23
Speaker
I never wanted to be limited. And God bless those whose call is really limited to serving our people, African-American literature, You know, i love African-American literature, but I really wanted to talk about Benjamin Franklin also and Ralph Waldo Emerson. I don't want them thinking and not just because I did it for them, but I actually enjoyed reading them.
00:43:41
Speaker
I didn't want to be limited by, oh, you you know, invite me just for Martin Luther King Day or invite me just for black literature. No, invite me when you're talking about. Jonathan Edwards, or you're talking about these other thinkers, who of Thomas Jefferson even, who have shaped this country.
00:43:59
Speaker
I'm not one or the other. I'm i'm i'm all things and I'm both. And I just wanted to make sure that intellectually, i honored what was in me by not being confined or constrained to just being an African-Americanist, although I love the discipline, love the period, and have written a lot extensively on it.
00:44:23
Speaker
I love the versatility. I love that you chose the path you chose because it allows you to connect dots that many cannot connect.
00:44:35
Speaker
um And I think that that is invaluable information, knowing how to go from hip hop lyrics to, you know, classical lyrics. texts and how they could correlate and how they do correlate is a brilliant bridge. And I commend you for that. That that is extreme forward thinking that I don't even believe people have even really started to scratch the surface
Value of Liberal Arts
00:45:03
Speaker
at.
00:45:03
Speaker
um And I'm just going to say people in period. i'm not I'm not going to even say certain types of people, just people in in in general. I don't think that they have... have um have realized how monumental your work is. So I think that there's even something there in the in the education and tutorage place. Tutorage, is that a word? I think I just made a word up. like It's okay. Tutorage is a word.
00:45:28
Speaker
And I'm telling you right now, since you just divvied in, look, we could do another whole session because I think this whole AI stuff, which is great and we need to use it. Yes. Really, it's going to take the place of what our faculties could do ourselves as well And when we start relying on that for our writing, we start relying on that for our research and let it put together narratives for us that we, and and and listen, first of all, I know that's part of my gifting. So I don't ever want anybody compare like, oh, well I can't, no, first of all, that's what I mean by you do what you do, I do what you do.
00:46:05
Speaker
But for me, it's important in liberal arts training. And unfortunately, even with me as a president, I've had to cut some liberal arts programs and things of that nature. But I want people to truly understand that reading, writing and thinking and the ability to read books. Yes, we're going to read African-American texts, but we need to learn to read Native American texts.
00:46:28
Speaker
We got to read what the founders wrote too. Even you need to understand what john what Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin were talking about. yes and So that when you take all that in and then you start applying it to your life, you start having a wider view of things. And that's why you know, even on debates of Democrats and Republicans.
00:46:47
Speaker
I mean, if you're going to announce to everybody what your position is in advance, you know, yeah I can pretty much predict what you're about to say, but I love being able to question the Republicans on some stuff and question Trump, but I also going to question Barack Obama and question Biden. I'm not going to be on one side or the other because none of us are perfect. And I want to get into all the different issues.
00:47:09
Speaker
And I have to say that for me, Cornel West, who Dr. Yancey again introduced me to back when she was inaugurated and he came to campus and I was an honors college student, that his ah his sort of vocation as a professor and scholar really in his earlier years is really what ah what became a model for me um about how one should view their, at least the scholarly part of their vocation, which is why I told you that I, you know, I'm a professor, scholar, and administrator. I'm not just an administrator. I'm going to always be a scholar, ah but I'm also going to be an administrator because I'm also going to know the finances and the revenue and how to, ah you know, and all those things that I had to learn and to work.
00:47:52
Speaker
organization, and but also a professor because I want to view everything that I'm doing is about teaching. So I appreciate you pointing that out and affirming that in me as well because we all need affirmation, even even look even university presidents at that time and And it's been amazing because I've had an amazing past few weeks where I've just been getting affirmations out of everywhere. Like, I didn't even know you knew me. I didn't know you listened to me. I didn't even know you.
00:48:19
Speaker
Well, I didn't know because, you know, my quotes don't get no likes. And I'm like, man, I ain't one of those guys who get. love your quote. I send stuff out. No, nobody. but I'm like, ain't really. I'm sending it out to help people.
00:48:30
Speaker
But I kind of believe sometimes I'll be like, man, I just think people got to think about that a little longer. Yeah. So I'm reading it up, quoting it. You know, that's just my pastime. And that's that's not for likes. it's That's my life.
00:48:43
Speaker
Yeah. And when you're doing something that's a part of your life, it doesn't become a part of a job, which is the the root word of vocation is not trade school. It's calling. It's something you're going to do, whether you got a title or not.
00:48:59
Speaker
okay This is who I am. This is what I do. And no title or anything constrains you when it comes to you being who you are. So you keep podcasting. Even if you've got to go take a job somewhere else, if this is the calling, you've got to keep that going.
00:49:15
Speaker
And maybe that position matches it or maybe it doesn't. But thats yeah either way, you've got to keep leaning into the purpose and the thing that you're you're supposed to be doing.
00:49:25
Speaker
Well, appreciate that. And I appreciate you sharing that publicly with our audience because that doesn't even just apply to me. He's not just talking to me, y'all. He's talking to y'all too.
00:49:35
Speaker
Because it you you have to keep pushing and you have to keep going. That is the underlining tone when it comes to greatness. It's not allowing something to stop you, regardless of whether it's seen or unforeseen. It cannot stop you. You have to keep plowing through and keep moving forward. So I respect that. Thank you so much for for sharing that. yeah The last question I have is, um what's one thing that people don't know
Introspection and Personal Growth
00:50:02
Speaker
about you? Public facing, one public facing thing that people don't know about you.
00:50:06
Speaker
So you may not, my wife will tell you this and everybody, if you really truly know me, I never quote a lot of, now I might share a commentary on the Bible.
00:50:20
Speaker
I might. Okay. I might, you know, but usually don't do that because, you know, I, it's so personal to me. Okay. But most people don't know that like, like it ain't just a, like, I ain't telling you like read the Bible.
00:50:35
Speaker
I'm talking about like, that's my number one book that I read. Okay. And I've written thousands of personal commentaries just on scriptures.
00:50:48
Speaker
um And of course, I start with that, but then I read other books because for me, and you you asked about 17th, 19th century your literature and understand, it's helped me to like, when I understand those kinds of truths, it helps me to to understand truths out of different tradition and different books.
00:51:07
Speaker
That's just me. But most people wouldn't think that because I don't quote scriptures or post those. I rarely post a Bible scripture and it's kind of by design because it ain't really for people.
00:51:20
Speaker
It's for me myself. But when I do find things that, well, maybe if somebody is interested in learning more, they might dig or reach out and be like, okay well, you know, I want to learn more about this. Well, what is your understanding of? Then it opens up dialogues like this as organic and authentic. Well, you know, when this writer is saying that or when this person is saying that or when, look, when Drake is saying this or like this principle is one you should think about. And so in that sense, I'm a very introspective person. I'm a
00:51:55
Speaker
INFJ. I can spend all day by myself reading. Okay. Briggs sex. Yeah. Hey, you bet. Hey, I always have my team to do Briggs, Myers Briggs. And even when possible, get my board members do it because once you learn a person's yeah letters,
00:52:11
Speaker
These ESTJs and ET, they live off of talking. yeah I don't live that way. I'm going to sit back. going to reading.
00:52:22
Speaker
I got appointments. I'm to build myself up. I got to talk to Xena. So I got to make sure I bring the energy. I got to bring the funk, so to speak. But ah but others, they live like that. And so all that also helps you to understand your purpose. So I would say one thing that people don't understand, ah might not know is that, you know, that's ah probably my number one ah preoccupation. And it's not something I beat people upside the head with. But honestly, it's kind of what what helps me for my own personal life, my own personal faith. And um I think that's admirable. I will just say that.
00:52:56
Speaker
I think that's admirable. Being able to apply the word without speaking the word itself, I think is a different level of superpower. oh that's powerful. I like that. Hey. Hey, I got a call. I might have a little start something sleeve. Just I'm still Dr. Conway's daughter. Let's start there. Oh, you know, that's right.
00:53:24
Speaker
Oh my goodness. Okay. Well, is there anything that I did not bring up to the, on the podcast that you would like to put on the docket?
Family and Reflection
00:53:31
Speaker
No, no, no, no, no. You know, just always a shout out to my my wife of 25 years. and You know, she just celebrated. She's a Smith alum, class of 1997. Okay, Smith. i I don't think she'll mind me telling her why she just turned 50, but she's senior vice president of Bank of America and one of 300 African-Americans in North America in that position. And I'm just so proud of her. always say everything that I am, she's she's more than that.
00:53:57
Speaker
and And then, of course, my my my boys, my sons, one is Nathan Morgan Kadeshi. He's at Morehouse as a sophomore. And my oldest is Brian Asa, and he's a junior at Campbell University. And so, um you know, besides ah ah pursuing my faith and my calling, you know, your family yeah ask has to be ah right next to all of that.
00:54:19
Speaker
And that's your first sort of ministry. And so staying on top of them and then my students and everything else, all that secondary. third and fourth and fifth. Absolutely. But that's important. And I'm proud of you also, and you're having two boys. We'll have a conversation.
00:54:35
Speaker
I have to give you my commentary on what it means to have two sons. Yeah, we're going to have to talk. And how many biblical personages had two sons. You'll be surprised. Okay. No, I'm grateful. And we will definitely have to, we'll have to talk out offline and then maybe even have another, uh, another circle back because this was enjoyable. I'm always available. And, um, I know I go deep and I know I talk a lot. And so, you know, my wife will tell you people like, man, y'all called Dr. Johnson. You better have two hours.
00:55:03
Speaker
ah You know, I get that from Dr. Yance because I don't have a 30 minute conversation. Me and Dr. Yance can go two and a half hours till she ready to get off and she can go, go, go, go. go and on every single topic. And I, I just, uh, admire her so much. So I'm also looking forward to seeing her, uh,
00:55:21
Speaker
come ah her her time with you. I respect it. No, look, it's coming. Trust and believe it. It is coming and I am grateful. Well, Dr. Johnson, thank you so much for your time. I'm truly grateful for you.
00:55:33
Speaker
um This was a pleasure. i have learned a lot. And to the listeners, I hope that you have learned quite a bit, not even just about Dr. Johnson, but about yourselves and how you can even take his lessons vicariously and apply them to your own experiences and your own existence.
00:55:50
Speaker
Um, I am truly grateful for you all. Thank you for your attention. for It is one of the greatest gifts that you can give to someone. I hope that you have a beautiful, beautiful day. This has been another episode of The Greatness Router.
00:56:03
Speaker
Take care.
00:56:05
Speaker
And that's a wrap on this episode of The Greatness Router. If you found some value in today's conversation, be sure to subscribe, rate, and definitely share. It helps more people connect to the journey of greatness.
00:56:18
Speaker
Until next time, keep moving with purpose.