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Ep. 0012 | Ask The Question Anyway
24 Plays16 days ago
What happens when the systems you’re trained to trust… start to show their cracks?
In this episode, Zena C. is joined by Civil Rights Attorney and Community Advocacy Educator Jonathan Barry-Blocker, JD, for a powerful conversation on identity, justice, and protecting your peace while doing the work.
From courtroom realities to community wisdom, Jonathan breaks down what it means to advocate with integrity—and still be whole. He shares how growing up in a deeply rooted Black family, navigating predominantly white institutions, and surviving the mental toll of overperformance shaped his perspective on boundaries, law, and liberation.
This episode is for anyone carrying the weight of excellence, service, or expectation… and learning how to set it down without letting go of who they are.
🎧 Stream Episode 0012 on all major platforms
Release Date: 5/22/25
Recommended
Transcript
Welcome and Guest Introduction
00:00:08
Speaker
This is the Greatness Router, where we connect purpose to process one conversation at a time.
00:00:26
Speaker
Welcome back, great people. It is your host, Zena C, and we are here for another beautiful episode of The Greatness Router. Today, I have my homie, Jonathan Barry Blocker.
00:00:39
Speaker
I call him Blocker for short. I'm not sure what he's going to want you to call him, but this is my homie. We met back in like 2016. 16, maybe? Maybe, maybe.
00:00:50
Speaker
oh You could be right. Maybe it is 2016. Oh my goodness. we We met a while ago at a conference um and we were licking our wounds at that conference together, but you know we made it through and I am so excited to just hear his journey of greatness. And I just want to hop into this bio. Y'all bear with me.
00:01:10
Speaker
There are some words in this, you know, he's that he's an attorney. So there's some words in this bio that I may trip over. Do not judge me, you know, charge it to my head and not my heart. But here we go. Who is Jonathan Berry Blocker?
Blocker's Civil Rights Journey
00:01:24
Speaker
Let's break it down. First generation attorney, civil rights advocate and all around fighter for justice. He spent his career tackling the tough stuff, litigating high-impact civil rights causes, pushing for criminal justice reform, and making sure people understand their right to vote.
00:01:47
Speaker
Jonathan's work has been featured on CNN, Essence Magazine, Democracy Now!, and Vice, because when it comes to justice, people listen when he speaks.
00:02:00
Speaker
Most recently, he taught trial advocacy and social justice at the UF Levin College of Law, helping law students see how the legal system impacts communities differently and why that actually matters.
00:02:15
Speaker
His research, cutting edge. He's looking at algorithmic. Look, I told you I was going jack it up. Algorithmic. Please say it. Algorithmic.
00:02:26
Speaker
Algorithmic. I got it. See, decision making, tech surveillance, and the lack of accountability for insurrectionist lawyers. Yeah, he goes there. Before teaching, Jonathan was in the trenches at the Southern Poverty Law Center, SPLC, right?
00:02:43
Speaker
and Correct. um fighting for better prison conditions and leading state level legislative advocacy in um in Alabama. He even helped build SPLC's award-winning Alabama Voting Rights Project, also known as the AVRP, which reconnected countless people with their right to vote.
00:03:02
Speaker
Before that, he designed a first-of-its-kind voter restoration program for legal services of Alabama, helping 200 returning citizens reclaim their rights in just six months.
Current Focus: Advocacy in North Carolina
00:03:17
Speaker
But here's what really matters. He's still doing the work, like right now. Right now, he's focused on helping older homeowners in North Carolina fight unfair property assessments that could push them out of their homes.
00:03:30
Speaker
He's also working on pro-democracy advocacy because democracy only works if protected from authoritarianism. it. Authoritarianism. Authoritarianism.
00:03:43
Speaker
say authoritarianism authoritarian yeah authoritarianism and elect an electoral misconduct beyond the courtroom however and classroom jonathan is a morehouse man hey hey and his wife dr isa to barry blocker is a spellman grad so they got this spell house thing going on house and yes they met in college they are also raising two strong-minded and beautiful might i add future spellman women
00:04:14
Speaker
And when he actually gets a moment to himself, which you know is is necessary, you'll find him bouldering, which I love to do. We'll have to get on that. um Or deep in Black speculative fiction.
00:04:27
Speaker
I love it. I love it. I love to learn so much about you ah reading your bio and going through what you sent over that was just like, but this is the homie. And I feel like I should have known all of this, but it's so beautiful to see how much you have developed over the past 10 years. Like that is amazing. And I'm very excited to share my audience with you. And now they're becoming our audience so that you can really,
00:04:55
Speaker
Describe to them your journey and the steps that you have taken from, you know, start to now. I won't even say finish because we're still pushing and we're going to keep going. But, um but welcome. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
00:05:10
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. This was a no brainer. Y'all know this is the doctor's journey, right? So I got i went into my Rolodex, my my little book, and I started pulling out my my people. And I didn't want to just do MDs because when you think of doctors, that's where people's minds go.
00:05:26
Speaker
Actually, y'all, when I first started this, PhD is where it went because that's what I knew. And then from PhD, I was like, but wait, You also have MDs. Duh, that's a no brainer.
00:05:37
Speaker
i was like, but then you also have, you know, PharmDs. I know those. and And then I learned about clinical PsyDs, which was new to me. That's for SLP. And then I got to thinking, I was like, well, what about JDs? They worked their butts off to to get their credentials too. Let's go for it. So I had to bring on the homie, Blocker, to come and talk to y'all and just share his his journey across the board. So.
00:06:05
Speaker
I like to hop in with these icebreakers um because it helps us paint a picture of who you are and how you speak, how you carry yourself beyond just the
On Humor and Historical Figures
00:06:17
Speaker
bio. And before we get into our questions, so here you go.
00:06:20
Speaker
you Ready? All right. If you could put any fictional character on trial, who's getting charged and what is the case?
00:06:34
Speaker
da da da You know what? always had an issue with this person. u oh Goldilocks. She's out of order, out of order. Running up in people's houses, eating their food, messing up their nice bed and linens.
00:06:51
Speaker
We don't where your body and your clothes have been. Okay, breaking chairs. Do you know how much furniture costs? Solid wood furniture, not this plywood, not this core wood. I mean, real wood furniture, not this Ikea mess. She's out of pocket, and out of order.
00:07:06
Speaker
Go ahead and up file her. I know I'm not really supposed to be into filing children as adults, but she needs to be filed as an adult.
00:07:16
Speaker
Okay, I didn't realize when I pulled that question out the hat that I was going to be giggling the way I am. And the fact that you already knew who your your frustration fictional character was.
00:07:28
Speaker
i thank you I agree with you. agree with you. She is a menace to society. She is. She's the proto Karen. You know what I'm saying? and And even when I had to read the book to my children, and just I just started editorializing.
00:07:41
Speaker
was like, and this burglar. Goldilocks rolled through. Nobody got fingerprints, okay? There was no you know no telephone. Look it, she done broke something. That's grand theft.
00:07:53
Speaker
She did a little fraud. I cleared it all. My children were like, what you talking about? was like, she's a thief. Get this book out. Oh my goodness. I am so tickled right now. she's out She's out of order.
00:08:04
Speaker
She totally is.
00:08:07
Speaker
I don't even want ask my rest of my questions. Cause that kind of just takes the cake. Like that just, I felt, you know what? I am going to ask it, but yeaha that that's perfect.
00:08:19
Speaker
It's the perfect response. And out of everything, I did not think you were going to say go to locks, but it is so accurate. we've just been out here telling little children to break into people's homes and not apologize.
00:08:32
Speaker
No restitution, nothing. The precedence. Mm-hmm. A little blonde hair style. I guess I'll get a little serious now. Even though that was just the perfect segue, I'm going to regret bringing this back around. Here we go.
00:08:47
Speaker
If you could have a candid, unfiltered conversation with any historical figure, who would it be? And why? That's tough. Okay. Okay.
00:08:58
Speaker
Cause there's so many. i would want to talk to Harriet Tubman to understand how she didn't burn out on saving people from themselves. She just did so much. I mean, we talk about the underground railroad, rule but she was a spy during the civil war.
00:09:13
Speaker
She captured a ship. i would i will I would want to talk to her. I want to understand how did you do it every day in the area you did it in, just unapologetically. How did you get up in the morning? What brought you joy?
00:09:25
Speaker
on those off times when you were just depressed because Negroes weren't acting right. um definitely definitely want to talk to her. okay I want to talk to Virgil Hawkins. So for those who don't know, in Florida, schooling was only integrated at the collegiate level because a Black man by the name of Virgil Hawkins um chose to apply to law school at University of Florida. And instead of letting him attend, they tried to get him to go up north to another school. He said, no.
00:09:55
Speaker
And so he was part of a test case that NAAC put on. It was him and five of the students. Wow. Chemistry, engineering, medicine, think pharmacy. Anyways, when the Ku Klux Klan bombed on Christmas Day, the home of Harry T. Moore and his wife in Daytona Beach, killing them because they were helping folks claim the right to vote,
00:10:16
Speaker
Everybody else dropped from the case except Virgil. And Virgil was also working at the Bethune-Cookman College, now Bethune-Cookman University, as a PR rep and fundraiser.
00:10:30
Speaker
And the white establishment tried to pressure and coerce Bethune-Cookman College into terminating his employment if he didn't terminate his position on the case. And he said Wow.
00:10:42
Speaker
Wow. Then they, um because they were coming at and doing political and economic pressure on his family in Lake County, Florida, he and his wife pretended to divorce.
00:10:54
Speaker
And so they lived apart for years during the case. Because the case took over a decade to litigate fully. They lived apart for years and he would drive at night 20, 30 miles to go visit her surreptitiously.
00:11:05
Speaker
Wow. And then he finally, they said, listen, if you just drop this case, we'll let little Negroes in the in the University of Florida Law School.
00:11:17
Speaker
And he said, fine. And so he dropped his case, but they didn't let him in at that point. And so he had to go to a unaccredited law school in Boston, work as a janitor to finally be a lawyer. And then the Florida Bar wouldn't admit him to the bar.
00:11:31
Speaker
And finally, he was licensed, he was in his 60s or 70s. Wow. I would want to talk to him because that man gave up everything. He gave up personal life. He could have been a ah middle class Black professional just making his little change.
00:11:44
Speaker
um He gave up a lot. He gave up a lot. And when he died, nobody from the Florida bar showed up for his funeral. it was only Black people and one white man, a white young white attorney who had litigated with him. And it was that white attorney who fought for his legacy.
00:11:59
Speaker
And the only reason people there's markers or anything recognized in Virgil Hawkins is because of a young white lawyer who met him in the sunset of his life.
00:12:10
Speaker
right So I would want to talk to Virgil to understand the fortitude it took for him to fight on behalf of so many people who were not white and so many people who now get to enjoy the fruits of University Florida, FSU, everywhere else.
00:12:24
Speaker
um Because of him. Right. He wanted to be a lawyer in Florida and they went up to his case went up to the Supreme Court twice and the state of Florida ignored it. And what did the state of Florida do? It honored the state Supreme Court justice.
00:12:39
Speaker
His name is escaping me right now, but. O'Connell, Stephen O'Connell, and they made him president of UF after integration was forced by the Supreme Court of U.S. And he stymied integration.
00:12:52
Speaker
And my dad and my mom were part of the early wave of integration at UF. And my dad protested. they da There's a lot, but then that's not my story. That's his story. But the point is, I would want to talk to Virgil because he permitted so many of us to be attorneys in florida from florida law schools and his he's not even taught at uf law not even taught wow i'm glad i asked the question i wow i'm floored right now like i'm i i i don't like to be flabbergasted and i i am at the moment that's what's up i mean it's not what's up that he was marginalized and you know suppressed right but
00:13:36
Speaker
Him being your choice and you just shedding that those gems on on our listeners who didn't even know and now they know the story. Go look him up. Virgil Hawkins.
00:13:47
Speaker
Virgil Hawkins. Go look him up. Because if you're in Florida and you're going to school... He's the reason. you the the The only reason. the only reason it Basically, it doesn't matter if you're black or not.
00:13:58
Speaker
Because of him, as long as you are not white and male, you are able to freely attend schools. So Asians, Virgil Hawkins is who you owe your obeisance to, his memory. Shout out.
00:14:10
Speaker
Shout out to the fam. I love it. Okay. Well, thank you for those icebreakers. I appreciate it. um Is there anything I left out in your bio that you want to touch on before we hop in?
00:14:21
Speaker
No, you covered it all. ah Did you like my remix? I did. It was good. It was good. I actually, I was like, Ooh, I'm kind of shiny. That'll be my gift to you.
00:14:33
Speaker
Thank you, beloved. Thank you so much. Absolutely. Absolutely. I got you. I got you. All right.
Career Reflections and Resilience
00:14:38
Speaker
Let's talk about the purpose behind your why. I think you've been hinting at it and you started to scrape the the the surface a little bit when you got into your upbringing. Well, not so much your upbringing, but who brought you up, if that makes sense.
00:14:50
Speaker
But if you had to pinpoint the moment that you knew what you're doing right now was your calling, what would it be? it's tough. Yeah. I will say my grandmother spoke over my life. She said when I was little, I would either be a preacher or an attorney.
00:15:06
Speaker
And when she said that, I just wanted to be a marine biologist. I just wanted to be the black Jacques Cousteau. But um she said, no, no, no, no. And so and it was it was in college and I was having to decide what I was gonna do my senior year.
00:15:20
Speaker
And I had a Teach for America interview and I chose not to do it last minute. said, I'm put my cards on the table for law school. I went law school And I realized there was just so much out there, so much that needed to be fought and pushed on and understood on behalf of my family because nobody in my family was an attorney.
00:15:39
Speaker
um And I said, this is what I got to do. And I wanted to do change work. I didn't know what that would look like. I didn't know the pathway it might take or the form. but I just knew I wanted to do impactful things.
00:15:50
Speaker
And so um I can't say it was any one moment. I can say it is a series of steps and impressions and and encounters with people um to where I am right now.
00:16:02
Speaker
I love it. oh Okay. Okay, Grandma. We appreciate you. Right? Mary Louise Postel. She was speaking. appreciate her. She already knew. She did. She did.
00:16:14
Speaker
Okay, so let's discuss any pivot points or a pivot point of choice. Was there ever a time where you almost chose a different path? From the one that you're currently on or actually in general, what you got? Because it looks like, you know, the light bulb. Yeah. I mean, like I told you, I wanted to be a marine biologist all the way up through maybe 10th or 11th grade.
00:16:36
Speaker
And I was in IB bio and everybody wanted to be a doctor. And I just wanted to be a marine biologist. And I just realized I don't want to know anything else about a vacuum or a cell wall or a mitochondria.
00:16:48
Speaker
And I'm good on this. And so then there was also a show. i forgot what it was called, but I loved it was a Canadian kids show. And the dad, the kids would go on these adventures and the dad was a marine biologist and the kids would.
00:17:01
Speaker
do these things to save animals or whatever. And I was like, oh, I love it. But I was like, they always look so poor in this show. Like that Jeep has not had a fresh paint job. That house is on life support.
00:17:14
Speaker
um And I was just like, that's that's not what I envisioned for my life. that's That's not what, you know what I'm saying? I don't have to be rich. but we didn't come this far to just continue to be poor.
00:17:25
Speaker
and you said I was like, I'm perceiving at this point, one, I don't want to know about mitochondria is and two, you know I don't want to live my life based off of grants. That's when i was just learning what a grant could be. And I was like, this sounds sounds unnecessary.
00:17:39
Speaker
And now look at with our political climate and people's grants being cut off, that could have been me. You know, not affording rent, loving animals, but having nothing to eat. And so I've.
00:17:50
Speaker
Yeah. And now you're fighting for those people who have. Right. Fighting for it and and making poverty wages sometimes. But it's OK. It's OK. It's fulfilling work. So that was a turning point. College. was I was going to be I was following my dad's footsteps to become a school psychologist.
00:18:04
Speaker
And then I looked at the max pay and i was like, I'm gonna work this hard. I shouldn't hit a ceiling like that. No cost of living. And I'm a cheap person. So I was like, I can't, I can't. Frugal. Frugal. There we go. I love that word too.
00:18:18
Speaker
so' there We go, we go walk away from that. Um, And then in law school, I had idea of what I thought I would would do um But I just kept coming back to things that resonated with me that were me helping or revealing truths.
00:18:33
Speaker
And so professionally, ah just, I kind of stumbled my way to where to what I do now. And it's it's been great. It's been great. And I will say the key to being able to pursue this was not having debt hanging over my head.
00:18:48
Speaker
So when i went to college, undergrad, full ride. we paid I went in-state for law school and we had saved up money. So that paid for that. So I sorry came out debt-free, which meant I could take jobs that intellectually pleased me or spiritually pleased me. And I wasn't beholden to paying off anyone's debt or anything like that. So ah that has been...
00:19:08
Speaker
the boom right of good financial planning shout out to ron and gloria blocker for doing that um yes because that gave me the freedom to pursue what i like and what resonates with my spirit and that means unlike a lot of lawyers i don't have a substance abuse issue i don't have a broken marriage i don't have a broken life my health i've got my blood pressure under control now so you know you get to focus on what matters i Focus on what matters and and and make a better world, right? So,
00:19:38
Speaker
That's what's up. You you hit on a few things um that you didn't... you know You stumbled your way to where you are. And we're going come back to that because i don't think people realize like the path...
00:19:49
Speaker
to success and the path to your own personal greatness or the, to be the greatest version of yourself is not straight. You know, there's going to be tumbling stones. There's going to be sticks in the road. There's going to be a ditch every now and then. So I think you choosing the word like stumbling to where I am is a a prominent ah lesson that needs to be, that needs to be recognized.
00:20:11
Speaker
But you also brought something else up your, your, your You having the support system and the foundation to actually be able to come out of school and not have these these looms of of debt over you. Like you were able to figure out, granted you did have some support, but you were able to figure out how to get your education in a way that does not have you in pools and puddles and swimming.
00:20:40
Speaker
and oceans of debt. So I think that even knowing that that is possible is important for our audience to recognize. Like school does not have to cost you your arm, your leg, your big toe, your pinky toe and everything else. Like you can, you can use the avenues that are there. Like community college is a thing and people try to avoid that.
00:21:00
Speaker
um Or, you know, certificates are a thing like using these, these resources that are available. So I just wanted to, to lean into, into those lessons for sure. In addition to what you already shared.
00:21:14
Speaker
Um, when it comes to going back to stumbling, when it goes to your resilience and your process, what keeps you in the game when things aren't moving smoothly? Like what keeps you going?
00:21:27
Speaker
i don't know if I can honestly answer that. Cause, cause when I, when I stumble, I, I, I kind of, I don't know. a lot of lawyers, we're obsessed with being perfectionists, pretending to be that, because that's what's expected of us. Unlike a lot of graduate programs, law schools are graded on a curve.
00:21:45
Speaker
So you might know the information, but it's about how well did you write the information to your teacher or how they thought it should be managed or organized properly.
00:21:55
Speaker
And that determines whether you get an A, a B, or C. And then if you are not at a grade point average that connotes winning to a law firm or whatever, then they're not going to hire you.
00:22:07
Speaker
la so really And then when you start practicing, there is this, oh my, it's fetish fetishizing, but with citations, yeah our our citation system is, it's masochistic, but um That's a word for it.
00:22:25
Speaker
it did Yes, and i don't know if it fully encapsulates it, but it's... there's this preoccupation with perfection and making sure everything is done correctly. And so sometimes that stymies decision-making in your own personal life.
00:22:40
Speaker
And so I'm currently going through a transition and a pivot. And so what I found is, and I just talked to a friend of mine who's going through her a pivot and and we had to remind each other, sometimes it's about taking a step.
00:22:52
Speaker
It may not be a giant step. It may not be the step to, or a leap to what you thought you were going to do. But if you just move in the direction, That's what's important. And so I have to remind myself that. And I tell my students that. I said, you know, sometimes you're not coming out with a job you thought you were coming out.
00:23:06
Speaker
I said, I didn't come out like that. This is what I wanted to do. and This is where I started. um But you can... make your way there. And sometimes you may not make it to what you think you're going to make it to. So i just have to remind myself that I just have to keep moving and keep finding people that I find community with.
00:23:23
Speaker
And even if I'm not doing the work I want, there is work to be done. Right. That I can do and apply my skills and my my knowledge to. Right. And that brings me fulfillment. I can respect that.
00:23:34
Speaker
um But it also is, is concerning when it comes to considering the the entire industry as a whole, when when you have a body of people that aren't allowed to make mistakes, aren't allowed ah hiccup, like that that is on mental pressures, that that is a that that is almost like a ah pipe waiting to bust. And it's unfair.
00:24:05
Speaker
It's unfair when it comes to being a human Versus being like considering yourself to be as efficient as a computer, maybe like that. I don't know. It's just it's it's an interesting dynamic that a lawyer would have to navigate.
00:24:21
Speaker
And I'm just sending peace to all y'all because that that is a lot of of emotional turmoil that you may not even have the capacity to deal with. Not you specifically.
00:24:33
Speaker
No, but not human. Yeah. Yeah. There's areas of law I don't practice. and I don't, like I used to do child abuse and sex crimes for year. And that my wife was like, you know, I watched SVU. I was like, oh, this is the exciting stuff.
00:24:46
Speaker
I'd want to do it. And then over the course of that year, would go out to do it every Friday one of my detectives. We would drink weekly and it was a lot. And we didn't realize it. Both of us didn't realize it.
00:24:58
Speaker
And we were both married. And then my wife said, you need to leave that unit. And so I transitioned out. And when I transitioned out, my detective transitioned out of sex crimes at the same time to another division.
00:25:10
Speaker
And we both reduced our drinking significantly. It was like ah light turned on and we didn't meet up every Friday. And if we did meet up, it was like two to three drinks, not six or seven. Tell me.
00:25:21
Speaker
there I feel that same way about family and domestic law. That's just not for me. Shout out to Dr. Issa too for pulling you back from the brink. i know I appreciate that. but i guess and i Maybe for the purpose of this podcast, what people should appreciate is a lawyer, our work doesn't turn off when we go home.
00:25:39
Speaker
You're thinking about it. You're processing because someone's livelihood, life, depending on what area of law you're still human. They're depending on you to unsnarl a tangle of issues that they can't do on their own.
00:25:51
Speaker
Right. And so they're paying you with the high expectation that you'll make it work out for them somehow. Even if the law and the facts are not on their side, they are expecting you to work it out and you carry that home with you. So like my wife comes home, she's like, I did my case. I'm done.
00:26:03
Speaker
She may be tired, but she's done what she need to do for the day. And she's right. Right. That's not what the lawyer, we wake up and we're still thinking about the problem, the project, the case that we have to do, that someone's depending on us. And then that, you know, if we can protect or salvage or mitigate the harm on our client's life, that then has an impact on their children, their household, their community.
00:26:26
Speaker
So there's layers, there's ripple effects of who you're impacting with the work you do. Wow. that You're painting a picture for me and to the audience, I believe that y'all are getting a nice little mural as well.
00:26:40
Speaker
But I almost wonder how that even expands out even beyond just the lawyer or the law industry. like I feel like a lot of people... I feel like counselors take things home um if they if they can't um come compartmentalize, maybe even a degree of doctors um like medical.
00:27:01
Speaker
um I'm sure teachers do to an extent, too. um But regardless, that there's still that level of you're still human. And, you know, you still deserve grace in your own life. Like, that's a lot. um Again, I'm sending love to you and any listeners that may be lawyers because that's a baby. That's a lot.
00:27:20
Speaker
That's I'm glad that you have great self-talk abilities and you have a um a ecosystem or a support system that you can pour into and that pours back into you. So kudos to you for knowing that that's something that you need.
00:27:37
Speaker
um Let's talk about lessons for others because I'm sure along your journey, you have encountered a slew of of hiccups, bumps in rows, um dips and ditches that you have learned quite a bit for. What is one mindset shift or practice that has helped you to succeed?
Mindset and Personal Growth
00:27:55
Speaker
Hmm. I know we just talked about self-talk and and confiding in others, but is there something that you were able to you know implement for yourself that has helped you just, that's your ace in the hole?
00:28:14
Speaker
I have had to learn and I still struggle with it. not carrying water for other people that I don't carry water for. a um As Black Americans, we carry water for this nation oh because we are experiencing a lot of the oppressions and harms and and we have to call it out and fight and push back and try to heal around that while still protecting those we love.
00:28:38
Speaker
But also from day to day when you're carrying a case, I used to take cases to heart too, too much to heart. Yeah. um And and then if I had a disappointing outcome, I felt like I had let those folks down. i had the beauty of that family.
00:28:52
Speaker
And I had just had to learn that this is, you know, you can care, but you can't you can't lose yourself in the caring. And if someone is frustrated with an outcome, if they contributed to that, That's not for you to carry.
00:29:04
Speaker
That is for them to process and deal with it. And so at this stage of my life and career, I am big on you carry your own water. You cleanse your own emotions. Don't come to me asking me to do that emotional labor for you.
00:29:16
Speaker
I recognize now that I spend a lot of my teens and my twenties cleaning other people's emotions and and mental states that they could function and that left me or exhausted, right? yeah but I don't do that anymore. I can care and empathize, but what we're not going to do is bring me your laundry and ask me to clean it for free and fold it.
00:29:38
Speaker
Not at all. I agree. i I totally agree. I've gotten to a state myself where it's it's really like I used to be the fixer. um And i was I'm a really good fixer. i'm ah I am a great problem solver. I am a great creative. that That's me.
00:29:54
Speaker
But I have gotten to a space where I am okay watching things fall apart. Yes, because some of the people got to learn. Maybe there's a private school you got to learn. And and beloved, it's not meant for me to stand in the way of what God is trying to teach you. so Come on, somebody.
00:30:09
Speaker
Come on now. Got to make can play so you know but it But it helps as an attorney because it allows you to be able to move on from a case. right okay no matter how serious it is you got to be able to pivot and shift to the next six because there's there's always another story there's always another trauma there's always another injustice out there so you can't get mired down and one you have to extricate yourself and move to the next and be strong for that next set of clients and help them understand so that is something and then i think another thing i've learned is you have to if you want the community to be more resilient you have to teach the community and your clients how to advocate for themselves and so when i was doing my voter restoration work yeah as a traditional attorney come in i can do the work make myself the expert you have to come to me but i don't want that i want you to organically go and improve the lives around you and i want you to find your voice right or if you didn't know you had it or it's been under disuse i want you to dust that thing off
00:31:04
Speaker
and then flap it out and get out there and use it. And so I ah had to intentionally structure how I did my work so that folks learn to advocate for themselves or see the steps.
00:31:15
Speaker
And then if I disappeared, if I died, if I just got removed from the scene, you're not bereft, right? You can still do what needs to be done on behalf of yourself. And that is something a lot of attorneys don't do because they are thinking about their income, right? And how to keep current customers sometimes.
00:31:32
Speaker
But really, we should be teaching people to advocate for themselves. We should be working ourselves out of a job because there's some there's some other issue that we can go fight and and make money on, so to speak. But we should really be teaching people how to advocate for themselves and their children and their families.
00:31:47
Speaker
I agree. um
00:31:51
Speaker
I love that. And I love that that that is a realization that that you specifically have. One thing I need y'all to understand um about Blocker that I have learned, and I learned this yeah like i when I first encountered him, he literally like plans and pre-plans. like he His contingency plans contingency plan has a contingency plan.
00:32:12
Speaker
And I love that about about how he thinks. Now, you're making me sound too awesome because i don't I don't have that many levels of planning. Yeah. I don't know what smoke and mirrors I showed you, but for the record, y'all.
00:32:25
Speaker
No, no, don't let him don't let him be modest. I literally feel as though you do really well with seeing a um ah situation from as many angles as possible. And you being able to bring everything into that little vortex, that one little point from all these different angles gives you the opportunity to jump around as other people come to their conclusions.
00:32:48
Speaker
It's like, okay, that's cool. You see that, but you see there's three other arrays over here that we need to take into consideration. And i think that helps. That's something that I recognize about you as an individual that, okay, well, y'all may catch that right there, but there's still three other things that we need to pay attention to or that we need to acknowledge um that could be at play as well. And I think that that's amazing. um So I stand on business right now. i and I am standing on business with what I just said.
00:33:17
Speaker
Don't let him be modest. No. Okay. So how do you feel as though your thinking has evolved over the years?
Pro-Democracy and Future Plans
00:33:26
Speaker
Ooh, now that one I think is easy.
00:33:28
Speaker
i was always told when I was younger, I was analytical, but I didn't understand what that meant. And now I'm definitely there. Like I'm always perceiving what is the layer behind it, what especially what is the legal context and what are we exposing ourselves to?
00:33:42
Speaker
so okay And so when but I want to know more, i try to, risk know I'm inquisitive and I'm curious, right? But I want to respect people's personal boundaries and privacy. So I try not to be nosy.
00:33:54
Speaker
Okay. um But when i when I get the green light to ask you questions, I'm all in. And my wife is like, please stop interrogating me. I'm not on the witness stand. i was like, oh, no, I just want to understand.
00:34:07
Speaker
I just want to understand. She's like, please ask less and say less. In fact, we're done. I'm tired. I'm just going to go watch Love and Hippity Hop. And i was like, okay. So I realize now that's how I do it. In fact, when I'm doing some work out here in end du or Raleigh,
00:34:23
Speaker
I realize I'm thinking from a legal perspective, like what are the implications for a potential case? How do we fight this legally? You know, what we need? This, we can do all this, but when it transitions to a court setting, what kind of clients do we need? angry And it's not always everyone else's intention or aim. So I need to sit back, right? And I have to check that impetus and that that that that narrow focus and and let them do what they're trying to do.
00:34:53
Speaker
And I just support. And i and i have to sometimes I have to check myself real time on that. So I do find now I'm always thinking, what is an issue? Like I remember we were in Birmingham. What was it?
00:35:04
Speaker
It was the pandemic. And i went to the smoothie spot I liked. And the guy was, I always ask people, do you split these tips with other workers? Or is it just people?
00:35:16
Speaker
and And the young man was like, oh, they take some of our tip. i was like, bruh, for who? He's like, the people back. I was like, you know, I support the people in the back, but that's not what a tip is meant for.
00:35:26
Speaker
The tip is meant for the person in the front of the house. I said, who's taking you your tip? And he said, oh, the management. They take like a third. I said, player, that's called wage theft. You need to talk to an attorney.
00:35:38
Speaker
You hear the advocacy? He's teaching him how to... And this was a young 18-year-old black boy. And he was just seeing this he like, you know, it is what it is. I said, play it. Here is the name of an entity that you get to go to to start asking questions. But i I encourage you, because this is Alabama. For those of you who don't live in Alabama, yeah you can live...
00:35:58
Speaker
like a king on an 80k salary because it's just that economically depressed okay and so people don't make a lot right and they need every penny they can get and i was like young man you need to advocate he's like you know okay thank you and knew he wasn't gonna do nothing but that's the kind of thing that's how my mind is just like What's happening here?
00:36:19
Speaker
Is this probably breaking the law? Should you advocate in some way? How much energy will this take? Do you actually want to receive what I'm about to give you? If you don't pump the brakes. That's a big one. And turn away, right?
00:36:31
Speaker
But yeah, that's how I'm going. That's big That's where it is now. I just, like it's all, I can't even turn it off. Wow. I know that that can be frustrating, but it's almost like a superpower.
00:36:43
Speaker
like you can Yeah. It is. Because y'all, Zena and I were talking about ah those waivers they have you now sign when you register your child for camps and stuff. How they try to slip in this language about, you know, in perpetuity, you know, when the third coming of Jesus happens, I can still use Jesus as a child.
00:37:01
Speaker
Think facts though. Right. right And you know, as a father of a black child, I know y'all ain't got that many black children in your program. So I know what you're about to do. I know what you're about to do. right neith knows She knows too. Y'all, you can take your little pen and you can cross with imperpetuity.
00:37:17
Speaker
I'm good for saying you can use this image for six months. ah Write it in, initial date that you know that nobody else wrote this thing. Sign the rest of the document and send it in. Now, if you accept that document and my money, then we have a contract.
00:37:32
Speaker
All right. um Because I know a lot of them don't read. And so ah that's that's how I do it. And it won a gymnast program. They read. And after I paid, they said, oh, excuse me, sir.
00:37:45
Speaker
We saw your waiver. And um yeah, we we just can't. Because I said, if you're picture of my baby, catch it from the back or the side out the face. She's like, we just don't have time for that. I said, well, ma'am, it ain't like y'all got 10 Black children in this program. I know the other one who's going on the same week. So it's only two.
00:38:05
Speaker
You can do that. She's like, no, we can't. I said, well, that's the only way you're going have my money. She said, well, then we will refund you. Wow. My money, but it's okay. You, you showed who you were, right?
00:38:16
Speaker
I now know you read. Um, but I also let you know, you're not going to use my child's image indiscriminately to to your, to your ability. You know what I'm saying? You're not going to put her all up on Facebook and have the algorithm scan her and build a model and a,
00:38:28
Speaker
of age progression to her. No, you're not going to do that. Not for free. Not for free. Y'all get this y'all hear this ah this game he's giving y'all? Y'all better run. Do you hear it? Okay. So when you speak for people, you attend something, they have you sign a waiver. Go ahead and read that waiver. Cross out what you don't like and do what you got to do and send it back. So yeah, you got to advocate for yourself.
00:38:48
Speaker
They'll never teach you. They'll never tell you. you also have to be able to stand on the consequences. we we we can't We can't overlook the fact that when you scratch it out, there's still going to be a consequence. It's not just, no, you can't have it You can't have it, but there is a consequence that comes in tandem with that, that you have to be okay with. And I think that that's a big thing that people have to be okay with the consequences of their actions, but that's a life lesson.
00:39:11
Speaker
That is. And so my baby didn't get to do the little gymnastics that she wanted. She'd been holding out for some gymnastics. And I said, we're not we're not doing it, giving out your your stuff for free from Mark Zuckerberg to just be playing with. So, you know, we didn't do we didn't do gymnastics. No contest.
00:39:25
Speaker
Sorry, baby girls. It's coming. It's coming. It's it's coming. Daddy, pop Baba will find the proper place. Baba will. Baba will. Baba will find the proper place.
00:39:40
Speaker
I got to stand up for my booze. Look, I got to stand up for the beautiful brown babies. Yes. I love that though. i love that you are dropping free-ish game for for people ah because if they're listening, then they know.
00:39:54
Speaker
but I think it's real key to know that there are there's a degree of people who read in America. There's a degree of people who don't read. And the degree of people who read are dangerous in a great way. Yes. Or, you know,
00:40:10
Speaker
Listen, and one last thing, have a friend, of my wife, BFF, she joined the orthodontic practice. they sent her employment and i said run me your contract she sent me the contract and i'm reading it through i was like nope nope nope this is this has reached too far the non-compete clause that's what i was really looking at page and was like nope nope nope uh let's look at the law that applies anyways send it back and they were like um and she was like jonathan are you sure i was like we sure just send it back so she's in the back they're like yeah i don't know was like well tell them to run it to their attorney
00:40:42
Speaker
They ran it to an attorney in Chicago. The attorney talked to me. We went back and forth and we actually came to an agreement. Now, there was i wasn't going to get everything from my friend, but I got enough.
00:40:53
Speaker
Okay. like Damn. And then she went on her little black court to Dante's group said, listen, y'all got some employment contracts y'all need to negotiate? come Come hit up my boy. I love you. And then did email me. And I was like, listen, I'm going be 100.
00:41:06
Speaker
Employment is not my area of law. I'm just looking at it. This was my employment contract. This is what I pushed back on them with questions. So. Yeah. Y'all read, push back. you don't have to be an attorney. Sometimes you just have to be bold and and yeah catch people unawares and then, you know, stand 10 toes down like, no, I'm not budging on these issues.
00:41:24
Speaker
yes Yes. And then like Zena said, if the consequence is they withdraw the offer, then they withdraw the offer because now, you know, they're going to use you up. They were going to abuse you. And if you want to go into it and be exploited, that's fine. But get the get the compensation you want. Would that be vacation?
00:41:39
Speaker
It'd be leave, it'd be extra finances, a bonus, whatever, whatever you willing to trade for that level of exploitation. Just make sure you get it. That's a major key. I think that that is that in itself is a major key. If you are going to sell off partitions and portions of your, your, uh, your being, make sure you are being compensated yeah handsomely.
00:42:01
Speaker
Yes. that's That's a big major key. Um, Thank you for that. Like, even for me, thank you thank you for breaking that down. Or as the the late ah Joe Madison would say, putting it where the goats could get it.
00:42:14
Speaker
yeah I like that. I like that. Get where the ghosts can get it. Shout out, shout out to the, uh, the black Eagle. Uh, may, uh, may you rest in, in paradise. Yes.
00:42:24
Speaker
Okay. So what is now we're wrapping up a little bit and I just want to know, like, what's next for you? We discussed what you're currently working on, but what's next? How can, how can people support? How can people learn? Like what, what, here's my real question.
00:42:41
Speaker
I do want to know what's next, but how can people prepare themselves to even get in front of someone like you? Like what, what is necessary? Oh, well first off, I'm just a taxpaying Negro. So, you know, you can, you can see, you can find me at church. Sometimes you can find me on the street or at the, at the restaurant.
00:43:00
Speaker
ah Just come holler boy. But no, um what's next for me is trying to figure out a way in this moment we're in, yeah Teaching civil rights law, I've recognized a pattern. About every 50 years, America has to be brought to its knees and reminded of the aspirations it put into its constitution, right?
00:43:23
Speaker
So we had the Civil War and then we had Reconstruction and then they came back and clamped down on us. And then we reached the middle of the 20th century, had the civil rights era and it was beautiful, right? But then Reaganism, they tried to clamp down on us.
00:43:37
Speaker
And then we got to Barack you know, had our little moment in the sun and now we're having the reaction, right? And it's probably gonna we're probably gonna go through another 50 year dip or transition.
00:43:49
Speaker
But in doing that, the dip doesn't have to be fully regressive, right? We don't have to revert back to what we were. We can put in roadblocks, bulwarks, fire breaks. And so that is my focus now.
00:44:00
Speaker
What can I do so that my daughters do not have to live as my parents or my my grandparents had to live? Mm-hmm. That is my my interest and my goal. So while I have intellectual curiosities I'd love to pursue professionally, I think what's important right now is to be focused on pro-democracy, ah pro-constitutional work.
00:44:21
Speaker
um Because if it if this falls apart, where are we going go in the world? Right. and And we're used to, America may have issues, but I've been to some other places. we we on We own the good foot compared to a lot places, right?
00:44:37
Speaker
and so And how many places have anti-Blackness or colorism in the world? So where are you as a Black person going to flee to, right? and And can your money cover you enough to wipe away your Blackness?
00:44:48
Speaker
for purposes of whatever society you transition into. So my next phase is help out with that, help protect voting rights, help protect electoral access, accountability, because part of what we've gotten into this is because certain forces within our society weakened accountability measures, right? So we need to be speaking truth to power and pointing out and and calling a spade a spade and talk about the poisons that are permeating the air and water and of our society, metaphorically speaking.
00:45:16
Speaker
So that's where it is. What I encourage you to do, you the the the listener, show up at meetings, right? So I remember when I started my career, I tried to get a group of Black dudes I knew. We were from good families, quote unquote.
00:45:28
Speaker
We were natives of the city. And I said, we should all take certain community boards, right? We don't have to be the members of the board. We just have to attend the meetings. Because I attended the zoning and planning meeting once.
00:45:40
Speaker
i was like, whew, y'all talking about development two years in advance. Right. So I was like, oh, we got to give me these meetings and then we can cross pollinate, share information, understand.
00:45:51
Speaker
These young men were focused on day parties and other stuff. And so we never got a coalition going like that. Right. And so I felt like, oh, if I don't have enough people, I can't do it. And I wasted years not attending meetings and observing things.
00:46:04
Speaker
Even for yourself. Even for myself, because I thought I'd do it in concert with other humans. Don't do Go attend some things. If you're like, well, that's just not me. Well, think about what is important to you. Like my children are important to me. a lot of folks are...
00:46:19
Speaker
focus on their children. Go to the school board. Go to the school board. Go to PTA. In fact, track legislation. When they file legislation at the legislature, you can go look it up on the website. they yeah that New numbers, go through twice a week and just read what was filed.
00:46:32
Speaker
See what's being said about children, right? And then advocate on that. Call up these people. Show up at their office. Maybe show up in the gallery. Maybe go testify at the committee hearing. Yes, it's dry and it's boring, but go ahead and get on the record and say your piece, right? So that when history or there's a lawsuit like a lawyer gets involved, we can pull up the record and Miss Betty Jo, she made it pretty plain. She said, don't do this and all this, right? Miss Betty Jo, come back on the stand and say what you said to these fools because they acting like you say what you said, right?
00:47:02
Speaker
So do things like that. Keep your eyes and ears open to how you can advocate and assist those around you. Like I'm right now here in Raleigh and Durham doing ah property tax assessment challenges.
00:47:13
Speaker
I've never done that in my life, but I joined a community group here of older Black men who are concerned about keeping the integrity of their community. Which is important. It's important, right? And then the guy was like, this is how you do it.
00:47:26
Speaker
I said, oh, and I've now learned how to assess. So how did I use that information? A cousin, my wife's cousin, they bought a home, built a home in their retirement years, a beautiful home, but it was assessed.
00:47:38
Speaker
hundreds of thousands of dollars over what they paid to build it, right? And so we pushed back, we did challenge, we did all these things. Now we didn't get it down to what it should have been, but we reduced it by a good $200,000 in value, which was so which equated good to what they had to actually pay in taxes, right?
00:47:56
Speaker
On fixed income. So my advice to y'all is if there's something that... that's irritating your spirit or the spirit of some loved one or someone you're concerned about in your community find out what the issue is and then just follow the trail of how do you push back against it who do you need to talk to sometimes when i was helping one gentleman he didn't get a tax break i said let's the law says you can file a letter asking questions for information that they must bring you before the hearings that you can make your defense or your argument So we sent that letter that shook him.
00:48:25
Speaker
It was like, oh, you'd man who sent this letter. So what we're not going to do is respond to your letter. Instead, we're just going to give you what you want, even though we have just said that what you want is not how we interpret the law.
00:48:35
Speaker
But they gave him what they want because they didn't answer these questions. So sometimes it's just a matter of you opening your mouth and and doing the unexpected. And and in this world will accommodate and shift for you.
00:48:47
Speaker
So that's I'm about to do. I love that you just shared that. um I really hope that y'all run that back and really take notes because he, Blocker does not miss.
00:49:00
Speaker
I mean, clearly his name is Blocker. He does not miss. But though those were gems with how to be a... a citizen in America. um And I think that, that granted, it goes deeper than that. And we have responsibilities as citizens of this nation. And what he is suggesting or what he is what he's telling us are literally the bare bones of what we should be, our civil duties of what we should be doing.
00:49:27
Speaker
um But taking that even a step further when it comes to the letters, it is so funny how you can get what you want and more by simply writing things a letter Like even if it's on a customer service ah situation, like you didn't like how the service went, write a letter and then just it's documentation. You get it back and then a great great deal of the time you end up getting what you want plus more um by simply putting it in writing like that's an interesting thing.
00:49:59
Speaker
process that we overlook. I think more so as a people, because certain people know that that's how the system works, but you outlining that even from a civil ah standpoint is, is important. So thank you for that. I'm keep giving gratitude, but thank you for that.
00:50:14
Speaker
Look, look at you sharing gems with the people. I just want us to be great, okay? I want us to be great. I want us to thrive. And i want I want us to feel empowered to do what we got to do.
00:50:26
Speaker
Straight like that. Is there anything I missed? Is there anything that we need to put on the the docket of this podcast? I don't know. I feel bad because you you wanted to talk about wow, my journey, and I feel like I just talked about what I do.
00:50:39
Speaker
So I guess I just want to say to y'all, and Zina, you can edit this any way you want. um My journey is there were no attorneys in my family. I didn't understand what it meant to be an attorney or to pursue what I wanted within this profession.
00:50:51
Speaker
And so I didn't ask enough questions because I didn't want to look stupid in front of folks who knew more or or I thought knew more. And now I tell my students, ask all the questions because your silence does not benefit you. It only benefits them and the people who would otherwise squeeze ahead of you.
00:51:06
Speaker
um And so I have come to the point where I will ask a question, even if it frustrates people, even if they think I'm stupid. I don't let me control my language. I do not care um because I want to understand a little better for my purposes, not yours.
00:51:19
Speaker
So my journey has been one of learning to ask questions for myself. ah being comfortable and being uncomfortable and i say that when it comes to networking you're being in rooms i still get flustered if i feel like I'm
00:51:37
Speaker
entitled to it had to tell me Some of these people are not that bright or that talented and yet they're in this room. okay And so there's no reason that you can't be in this room.
00:51:48
Speaker
um And I have learned that my silence, sometimes the thought I have, the question I have, the idea I want to propose, is something they haven't thought about. And then when I open my mouth and say they're like, oh, that is so good. what the What were you going to do if I didn't say something?
00:52:02
Speaker
right oh So that has been my journey. And it's been interesting because my parents being first generation college and my mom was an accountant. only one in our family. my dad is a school psychologist who almost finished his PhD, but he didn't, but that didn't stop him professionally.
00:52:20
Speaker
um But i i didn't appreciate when I was younger, the things they were trying to push me to do or pursue or or ask about. And I thought, you're doing too much. You're making me uncomfortable. And now I realize it was dim trying to compensate for the questions they didn't ask, the things they didn't know. So so So sometimes you need to ask questions and I've learned I need to ask questions. Maybe it's not for me, but maybe it's for my girls, right? When it's their time it's their time to move in certain spaces and I am there to tell them and counsel them and encourage them.
00:52:49
Speaker
um So, yeah, that has been my journey. And it's also been a journey of trying to remain rooted. So I go back to my family reunions in Alabama. We're from a deep part of the country, like in the forest.
00:53:01
Speaker
And I always make sure that I am present because I want once some cousins to know you have an attorney in the family so you can talk to him. Right. He's not a God. He's just a man. um but i also want to remind myself who do i come from right and before we had degrees or titles or whatever prestige we were a collection of black folks who loved each other and built something together in the country right and still own some of what was built right that we we brought together and so i have to remind myself of that and to make sure my girls don't get confused just because this life you have is pretty you be on planes you got a passport
00:53:35
Speaker
there's there's another aspect of life right and they're offending where you came from no they don't have the passport yet they don't they haven't been on the plane rides you've been on yet right you need to remain grounded and connected to them and so i have tried to make sure that i am i don't lose myself or my way what what happened before and who happened before that allowed me to stand in this moment and so um That's kind of what I've been trying to struggle with all my professional life. And maybe I've done it successfully. Maybe I haven't.
00:54:06
Speaker
um But it has informed, right, how I move. And i am, a one other aspect i was going to add, my grandfather survived a massacre.
Family History and Legacy
00:54:18
Speaker
He and his family survived the Rosewood Massacre. Rosewood. for o Like, I don't know, 70 plus years, we weren't allowed to talk about it. Like my parents only told me because the movie came out.
00:54:30
Speaker
Then they like, you can't tell anybody. So we weren't allowed to talk about it until the centennial just happened. And that's one hellified NDA. Come on now.
00:54:41
Speaker
And that was not signed with a pin. It was signed with a belt strap. Like you will get beat if you around telling our business. But for me, it's a reminder of what America can descend to and what I don't want to happen. and I know what it looks like for my family because it left some scars.
00:54:59
Speaker
um And so what I do, this degree I have, this mindset I have, I'm also thinking just what I don't want to backtrack to. I already know what it looked like for us.
00:55:11
Speaker
And there's probably tons of families that have similar stories or similar traumas. And so I don't want that for any new children or and or any new families. So that's that's like how I move. Right. I am steeped in themo of my friends call me. and they They say I'm angry. I'm not angry. I'm aware.
00:55:27
Speaker
And so I'm steeped in the awareness of what it is to be black in America. And I do not take that lightly or. what that should mean with how I do my work going forward.
00:55:38
Speaker
Whether or not the people I work with when I account for racial justice or a racial lens, I don't care anymore. oh We're going to put that in there. Or going to hear me speak it and what you choose to do is on you, but I'm not going let you move in silence and ignorance, self-imposed.
00:55:54
Speaker
So that's my journey. That's how that's how my my journey is progressing. I'm stumbling around right in the dark, but... I'm pretty happy, self-satisfied emotionally at least, with what I've accomplished and what I've pursued so far.
00:56:09
Speaker
I love that you are living and fighting for your truth, our truth, but your truth. And that is admirable to stand on and to fight for. So thank you for sharing your truth with us. like I appreciate that. That's that's big And ah to our To our listeners, I need you to understand that everyone has a truth, you know, and and the the moment you stop trying to live for others and you choose to live for yourself will be a game changer for how you acquire and start to own your own
Living One's Truth
00:56:46
Speaker
true greatness. So I am so grateful that you spent time with us today. Thank you. Thank you for having me here. it's It's been a pleasure speaking and sharing and and communing.
00:56:55
Speaker
this This has been, this was a true treasure. Y'all done found you you your favorite ah civil rights lawyer.
00:57:07
Speaker
I'm just a taxpayer. Just a taxpayer. Just trying to keep people ah accountable. That's it. know Big facts. But that's real. That's what we all are. where We all pay taxes. um We all have a civil responsibility and we all have duties that we may not even be aware of. And we may not be aware of what we can and can't do because there has been, by design, roadblocks and firewalls put in place to prevent us from even knowing what our um what our duties are or what the rules are, um the rules of engagement. We'll say it like that. The rules of engagement are to this game. So I'm grateful that you are willing to teach people how to walk and talk and advocate for themselves moving forward. So I am grateful for you. You are definitely doing the creator's work, period.
00:57:56
Speaker
I'm trying. I'm trying. And i appreciate you providing a platform for us to tell our stories and amplify and share. Talk about you ain't deserve to be on this because you weren't a doctor. Sitting there, sitting on a JD, y'all.
00:58:09
Speaker
What? Anyhow. It's just a piece of paper that says I know how to read. That's all it is. And that is the beautiful part of of this conversation because i know the people I'm talking to on a personal level.
00:58:22
Speaker
And I know that y'all are still human and you still care deeply about other humans. Whereas you fought for this piece of paper. And I use air quotes, y'all. This piece of paper so that it can sit on the wall for credential purposes for Yeah.
00:58:39
Speaker
But what people don't recognize is that that piece of paper still means a lot for one. And for two, you are still very much a human being having a professional experience and being able to share those experiences with the people is imperative and is necessary.
00:58:56
Speaker
So again. I thank you for your time. I thank you for your story. I thank you for your truth to the listeners. I am truly grateful for your, um, your attention thus far for that is the, one of the greatest gifts to pay your own attention next to love. So I am grateful for you as well.
00:59:12
Speaker
Uh, Mr. Blocker, is there anything that, um, that we
Connect with the Guest
00:59:17
Speaker
didn't cover? How can we find you uh, if at all, ah Yeah. ah If you want to find me hit me up on LinkedIn and just make sure you don't just send me an empty invitation to connect.
00:59:29
Speaker
Give me some type of message. yeah I understand why you're reaching out. If you just want to be connected to somebody who can help you with your issue, if I can't help you, I'm more than happy to point you in the right direction. There are way more black attorneys than we used to have.
00:59:43
Speaker
even a decade ago, right? It's still not as much as other groups, but it's way more, right? And they we're practicing in so many different areas. So no matter what part of the country you're in, what your issue is, ask a question, shout out. And if I don't have the answer, I'll try to find someone who does have the answer for you.
00:59:58
Speaker
All right, but I'm just happy to be here, a resource. I love that. I'm so grateful. Thank you y'all so much for joining us on another episode of the greatness router. I hope that you learned something and I hope that you have a beautiful day.
01:00:14
Speaker
Peace, love, light. It's me Zina C and I hope you have a great one.
01:00:23
Speaker
And that's a wrap on this episode of The Greatness Router. If you found some value in today's conversation, be sure to subscribe, rate, and definitely share. It helps more people connect to the journey of greatness.
01:00:36
Speaker
Until next time, keep moving with purpose.