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Episode No. 0006: Pivot, Purpose & The Power of Knowing Yourself
21 Plays15 days ago
What happens when the plan you had for your life no longer fits?
In this episode of The Greatness Router, I sit down with Dr. Joseph N. Cooper, a leading scholar in sport leadership, education, race, and culture. We talk about pivoting with purpose, embracing identity shifts, and why challenges aren’t always obstacles—they’re sometimes invitations.
From post-athletic career identity crisis to becoming a powerhouse in academia, Dr. Cooper shares the pivotal moments that shaped his journey. We unpack:
🔹 The unexpected push that forced him into his true calling
🔹 Why “Not Every Challenge is a Setback—Some Are Transformational”
🔹 The power of learning yourself and why self-acceptance is the ultimate game-changer
🔹 How faith, obedience, and discomfort often lead to the biggest breakthroughs
This episode will challenge you to rethink how you handle setbacks, embrace growth, and walk boldly in your purpose.
🎧 Tune in now! #TheGreatnessRouter #KnowYourself #PivotWithPurpose
Email: josephn.cooper@umb.edu
LinkedIn: Joseph Cooper
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Transcript
Introduction to The Greatness Router
00:00:08
Speaker
This is the Greatness Router, where we connect purpose to process one conversation at a time.
00:00:24
Speaker
And we are live. We are live. We are live.
Welcoming Dr. Joseph N. Cooper
00:00:27
Speaker
We are live. Welcome, great people, back to another episode of The Greatness Router. Today, y'all are in for a treat. I know I always say that, but I feel like everyone in my network is an absolute treat to just enjoy and learn from. so today,
00:00:42
Speaker
We have my cousin. Yes, y'all heard that right. We have my cousin, Dr. Joseph N. Cooper. He is a leading scholar in sport leadership, education, race and culture.
00:00:54
Speaker
He holds the Dr. J. Keith Motley Endowed Chair of Sport Leadership and Administration at UMass Boston, where he also serves as the founding executive director for the New Balance Institute for Innovative Leadership in Sport.
Dr. Cooper's Research and Impact
00:01:09
Speaker
Before UMass Boston, Dr. Cooper was an associate professor at the University of Connecticut. His academic background includes degrees from UNC Chapel Hill and a PhD in sport management and policy from the University of Georgia.
00:01:24
Speaker
His research focuses on how sport can be a catalyst for holistic development, particularly for Black athletes and communities. He is the author of three books. Yeah, y'all heard that right. Three books, including From Exploitation Back to Empowerment,
00:01:40
Speaker
A Legacy of African-American Resistance and Activism Through Sport, and his most recent work, which is Black Sporting Resistance, Diaspora, Transnationalism, and Internationalism.
00:01:52
Speaker
Through his work, Dr. Cooper is shaping the conversation on equity, education, and leadership in sports. Did I miss anything, Dr. Cooper? No, you didn't, Xena. Appreciate you. Appreciate you sending hugs and kisses your way. Shout out to your audience, everybody.
00:02:09
Speaker
Xena, greatness, top level, everything, anything you need, communication, education, information, ultimate empowerment. This is the spot to be.
00:02:20
Speaker
If you're not here, you missing out. This is where it's going down. So I'm honored to be here. I feel like I made it now. Like I don't even need to go on Oprah show. I don't need to go nowhere. i'm I'm already on top right now. So this is the highlight of my life right now.
00:02:34
Speaker
I receive. I receive. I am grateful for you. i am so excited for us to share an audience right now because your wealth of knowledge and your wealth of experience is going to be enlightening just across the board um from sports to life to sports. to travel, to conversations, the whole the whole gamut that we're about to dive into. I'm really i'm really excited. um And y'all should be, like I said, y'all are in for a
Conversation with Historical Figures
00:03:00
Speaker
treat.
00:03:00
Speaker
um All right. So I like to start with a and an icebreaker um for you and for the for our our audience. So if you could have a candid, unfiltered conversation with any historical figure, who would it be and why?
00:03:20
Speaker
Yeah, that's an easy one for me. It would be Paul Robeson. So for those who don't know, Paul Robeson was African-American, most and notably... recognized for his activism for human rights. He grew up in New Jersey, ah was an All-American football player, played multiple sports, um very educated. It was one of the first to go to Rutgers University and excel academically. He later went back, got his law degree, um I believe from Columbia.
00:03:52
Speaker
um But he was on track. He you know was drafted into professional football. He was on track to kind of have ah mainstream professional sport career. Then he went to law school. He could have went, just got his law degree and did the traditional lawyer route, but he was also a very talented singer and actor. And so he got into the arts. He's most famously known for his depiction of Othello.
00:04:18
Speaker
He performed internationally, but and During his acting career, he also was very aware of not only the oppression that black people were still experiencing in the United States in the early and mid 20th century, but also internationally. And so that's why his...
00:04:38
Speaker
motivation was, okay, Black people are suffering here in the United States, but I've traveled around the world and I see not only are Black people suffering in Africa, in Europe, in other places, but there are other groups of people, indigenous people, there are Asians, Europeans who are in working class.
00:04:56
Speaker
So he was always real critical of exploitation no matter where it happened. So whether it's people who are living in impoverished conditions, whether it's people who were being persecuted because of their culture, the color of their skin or religion, he was very outspoken about it. And so much so that he had his passport revoked by the federal government. so when you think of and some of the mistreatment that, um you know, Ida B. Wells, Barnett, Malcolm X, Assata Shakur, Martin Luther King Jr., all of our revolutionaries have
00:05:30
Speaker
Typically, when you're disrupting the power structure, there's going to
Personal Reflections and Influence
00:05:34
Speaker
be backlash. And oftentimes they're going to try to you know, take your livelihood away. um And he definitely suffered for it. But for his courage over the years, what I learned, my first attraction to him was that he was a former athlete.
00:05:47
Speaker
So, you know, for those who don't know me, I grew up in North Carolina. Basketball is really popular in North Carolina. Obviously, Michael Jordan played at Carolina, Duke University, NC State, Wake Forest, all these schools.
00:06:00
Speaker
So for a lot of us growing up, especially as a black male, sports was kind of the connecting thread that we felt like not only did it make us cool to our peers, but from a black manhood standpoint, it felt like, okay, I can i can connect through that.
00:06:15
Speaker
So that's always kind of my locus of of access for anything. Like, how does this connect to sport? So the fact that he was a former standout football player, I was like, wow, that's cool. Like he, he used to ball at a high level.
00:06:28
Speaker
And then he say, I'm also a scholar. I'm also an activist. And I was like, that's really cool. Cause a lot of modern day athletes, they kind of take the safe route. It's like, hey, I'll be good in my sport.
00:06:39
Speaker
I won't say anything about politics. I might promote education a little bit, but he would be somebody I would love to break bread with and just hear about like, you know, what what were the key moments in your life that allowed you to pivot in this way?
00:06:53
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What would be your thoughts? I would love to hear, given the current situation in the United States with Trump in office, with a lot of civil rights and human rights being attacked,
00:07:06
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what would he think about today and what would be the strategies that we as black people could activate, not only to protect ourselves, but to protect other vulnerable communities. So yeah, Paul Robeson would be the one I would want to break bread with other than like family members, obviously our, you know, like my grandfather, my mom's father, Walter Eugene Egerton, senior, I'd love to break bread with him. He passed away before I was born and Everybody talks about how he was such a great pastor. And, you know, obviously my grandmother who's in heaven now, ah Mama Jo.
00:07:40
Speaker
um I had many conversations with her, but, you know, I would love to have another conversation with her. I miss her dearly. yeah and So there are a lot of family members I'd love to rap with. But Paul Rosen would be a non-family member.
00:07:52
Speaker
Okay. I respect it. I respect it. Look, that was well rehearsed and well endowed. All right. So thank you for breaking the ice and giving us, first of all, some research to do. Y'all need to look go look up some Paul Robeson for sure.
00:08:10
Speaker
um But I want to get into your router moment.
Dr. Cooper's Professional Journey
00:08:12
Speaker
So we are on the Greatness Router podcast. Yeah, absolutely. Shout out to the Greatness. our greatness a little bit so let's discuss the purpose behind your work if you had to pinpoint the moment that you knew that this was your calling what you're doing right this moment this was your call this is what you wanted to do what would that moment be That's a great question. It would probably be I could pinpoint it
00:08:42
Speaker
So when I graduated undergrad, it was 2006. I was a dual degree major in sociology and recreation administration. at that time, after I graduated, I was working at the Chapel Hill Carbore YMCA. I wasn't 100 percent sure I wanted to go to grad school.
00:08:57
Speaker
um I knew I didn't want to do law school. A lot of my friends were going that route. i was like, no, that's not me. um Medical school just really wasn't my route. My father was a psychiatrist, but didn't really want to do that.
00:09:09
Speaker
So I went back and did my master's in sport administration. And at that time, I wanted to be an athletic director because after I stopped. So I played ah high school basketball, played AAU.
00:09:22
Speaker
My last high school basketball game was against Chris Paul. who's in the NBA now, Hall of Famer. I know you know PJ Tucker from Raleigh. I I went to high school with PJ and I used to play AAU against each other as well.
00:09:34
Speaker
So like all them guys from Raleigh, Drew Johnson, all of them, we all used to hoop against each other. And I'm technically their age, but i my because of my birthday, I was in a grade level above them. So LeBron James, Chris Paul, PJ, all of us,
00:09:53
Speaker
are the same age, but they graduated 03. I graduated 02. um And I tried, I made the JV team at Carolina, but didn't, you know, make it. Yeah. Made the JV team. I'm always very proud of that.
00:10:07
Speaker
Josh Hennigan, our cousin. He also, he made the JV team and Josh actually got moved up varsity. So Josh was on the team. I think Vince Carter, Brendan Haywood. That's so dope. Josh was on that team. I didn't get moved up to varsity. So Raymond Felton was a lot better you know than me. And there were some other guys who you know were just better. But I give that context to say after I didn't move up to varsity, I had like a post-athletic career identity crisis.
00:10:36
Speaker
So I'm in college, you know friends who are you know doing fraternities, friends doing other things. And I just couldn't find anything that really filled me. And I grew up in the church. So it wasn't like I didn't have a faith system, but I underestimated how much of my identity was connected to being an athlete.
00:10:55
Speaker
So here I am in college, never really thinking about what I want to do career wise. I know that I'm a God fearing Christian. But I couldn't really see at that moment when I wasn't hooping anymore, I couldn't really see life worth much of anything out outside of that.
00:11:12
Speaker
So I was always interested in history and sport and different things. But two kind of moments that really kind of put me on this trajectory. One, I believe it was like my sophomore or junior year.
00:11:26
Speaker
I had already changed my major like three or four times. but I couldn't. Once again, identity crisis. I'm like, i don't know what I want to do. And I ended up going to the career services office. And back then they had a test called the Myers-Briggs personality assessment.
00:11:40
Speaker
So I did that and it gave me like feedback on people with my personality and interests, what they end up doing. So that was like the first thing that's like, oh, OK. OK. Now I know a little bit more about myself. I can think about careers like sociology came up, um sport administration.
00:11:58
Speaker
The second kind of turning point was um my master's program. It was a two year master's program in sport administration. And the second year of the program, we were required to do a thesis.
00:12:11
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And I had a mentor, black woman by the name of Deborah Stroman. And I went into her office. She was on my committee. And she said, OK, what's your thesiss thesis topic going to be?
00:12:23
Speaker
And I said, i want to do an economic impact study of the baseball team. ah They were doing renovations to the baseball stadium on campus. So they were playing in Cary, North Carolina. They had like an Olympic training facility there.
00:12:37
Speaker
And she said, get out of my office. You're not going to do that thesis topic. Come back next week with a topic that you're passionate about. And I remember when she first said it to me, I was like, because at that time I was like, let me just do a thesis that sounds sophisticated to whoever.
00:12:53
Speaker
I clearly wasn't passionate about that topic, but I was like, oh, economic impact study, that'll sound good and I'll sound smart. And she really just like, check me on some, nah, like you're not going to just do that. Like you, this is something that's connected to you. You need to make personal. you doing to And I was like, all right. So I literally i I had to leave her office.
00:13:12
Speaker
I came back next week and I said, um want to do ah a study on the critical success factors for black male student athletes. And it's focused on their holistic development.
00:13:23
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And I said, look at personal development, engagement with the strong support system, social harmony, time management skills, career aspirations and engagement with organized religion and spirituality.
00:13:35
Speaker
And she said, that's going to be your topic. And so that was really like it opened my mind. If I started reading about other black scholars who are doing work on sport and holistic development and all of that. And that's when the fire really started igniting in me.
00:13:50
Speaker
And then the other the kind of the the the third thing that connected to that is in the spring of 2009.
00:13:58
Speaker
They made us present at this conference. It was called the College Sport Research Institute. And I, um you know, um I go to my presentation. I'm wearing like some slack shorts and like a polo.
00:14:12
Speaker
I didn't wear a suit or nothing because I'm like I'm a master's student. Nobody's going to come to my session. Well, the room is packed. And I'm kind of like, what's everybody doing here? Like, what why are y'all in my session?
00:14:22
Speaker
But I go and I present my, you know, presentation. And at the end of the presentation, there were three black faculty members who raised their hand during the Q&A. Now, mind you, at these academic conferences, you usually have about...
00:14:37
Speaker
You know, it's like a TED talk, youre like 12 to 15 minutes to talk. And then there's usually like a little bit of time for Q&A. So I, you know, everybody who knows me, I'm a verbose person. So I thought I used up all the time. I'm like, hey, you know, I didn't talk. OK, time to go. Maybe one question and I can roll.
00:14:54
Speaker
Well, the the top person was like yeah, we got about 10 minutes for questions. And I was like, oh, man, because i at that time, I really wasn't confident in the research stuff. Like I knew like the topic from my heart and from my lived experiences. But these are like academics.
00:15:09
Speaker
They're about to ask me about my research methods, my theory. Did you review the literature? What is your P value? Do you know if this is statistically significant? And I'm like, ah I'm not as tight as that right now.
00:15:21
Speaker
So anyways, the three black faculty members who raised their hand, they say the one brother, he says, hey, my name is Dr. Billy Hawkins. ah Thank you for your study. And I was like, as he said his name, I was like, Hawkins, where have heard that name before?
00:15:35
Speaker
And I go back to my slide. I'm like, Hawkins, like 2010. two thousand and ten Like most of the time when you do academic research and you're citing people, two things you think are what? One, the person you cited is either no longer alive or whatever. The second thing is you certainly don't think you're going to meet them like they're not going to be at your presentation as a graduate student.
00:15:56
Speaker
So he's like, yeah, that's me. I wrote the book called The New Plantation, Black Athletes, College Sports and Predominantly White Institutions. So the minute I make the connection that the person I cited in my dissertation is right there, my stomach kind of drops because I'm like, oh, man, did I misquote him? Did I say like I bet he about deflects on me and he asked me like a challenging question.
00:16:19
Speaker
And at first I tried to answer it in an academic way. And I said, you know what? I said, I'm just be honest with y'all. I'm a master's student. I don't know all the literature as well, but I'm a former athlete, black male.
00:16:30
Speaker
I'm just going to answer your question just straight from my heart. Like just if you're OK with that, I'm not going to do the academic part. i'm just going to give it to you. He was like, oh, I appreciate that. Then another guy, his name was Dr. John Singer.
00:16:44
Speaker
He introduced critical race theory in sport management work. So this is like back before critical race theory got big, big. It was big in the legal field and it was starting to get big in education, but it really wasn't in other fields.
00:16:58
Speaker
So he asked me a question. like, yeah, I saw you c cited critical race theory. Can you break it down? And I was hey, you know, I'll break it down to you the best I get it. And anyways, after that presentation, I met with them afterwards they hey, have you ever thought about getting your Ph.D.?
00:17:13
Speaker
I was like, nah, I was like, I'm actually just trying to be an athletic director. I just did the thesis because, you know, it's a requirement for our program. And they were like, nah, man, like you really you really could do this. And at that time, I was like the way that they were grilling me.
00:17:27
Speaker
I kind of felt like, yo, fellas, y'all could have pulled me to the side. Like, why did y'all grill me in front of them like that? And they were like, because we see something in you. And I was like, all right, maybe.
00:17:39
Speaker
So I kept in touch with them and I ended up applying to the Ph.D. program at the University of Georgia. And I worked with Dr. Hawkins, the first guy who asked me the question. So those are the three things doing the Myers-Briggs personality, post-athletic career, figuring out who I was and really gaining my confidence.
00:17:57
Speaker
That whatever I did on the court, I could do that in another aspect of life. I just got to have the same mentality. I got to be competitive about it. I got to focus. I
Holistic Development and Personal Growth
00:18:06
Speaker
got to practice. I got to I got to believe I can do because that's all it was on the court.
00:18:10
Speaker
Even though I'm 5'10 now in my heyday of hooping, I was buck 85. but I could ball because I watched basketball all the time. I played against older guys.
00:18:22
Speaker
So even though I was smaller, I was, I just knew how to hoop um by working at it. And so the Myers-Briggs kind of helped me reach focus meeting Dr. Stroman and her,
00:18:33
Speaker
forcing me to do a thesis because if I would have went to any other professor, they would say, cool, just do that topic, get the thing done. But her as a black woman was like, no, you're not going to do that. This is this academic, this education that other people just do to get a sheet of paper.
00:18:49
Speaker
You need to do this for you and for our community. This needs to mean more. And I really appreciate her for doing that. And then doing the presentation, getting exposed to That really drives my work is that the power of people seeing someone who looks like them doing something yeah is and then pouring into them saying you could do this, too.
00:19:11
Speaker
That just it once once I had to believe like I could do it, I'm like, boom, it's over. Like all I needed was just a little bit of that to get And that's what I try to do through my work with younger black student athletes. Or i call them holistic athletes is.
00:19:25
Speaker
Let me expose you to a range of people historically and contemporarily who were former athletes like you and now we're doing great things in other areas. You've got to believe in your holistic potential and not just think that, hey, I'm only good on the field. I'm only good on the court.
00:19:43
Speaker
So those would be like the three things that really kind of set me on this path. And ever since then, I haven't looked back. I love this for you and I love this for the audience because not only was your pivot, most of our pivots are forced.
00:19:59
Speaker
let me be Let me be very
Faith and Spiritual Insights
00:20:01
Speaker
clear. I'm sure that there were there were writings on the walls that that you walked past and that many of us would walk by. But the fact that you had someone literally stand in your way and be like, nah, that's not good enough. Go back to the drawing board. yeah that is That is epic. And and even...
00:20:17
Speaker
Even the emotion and the frustration you felt with like, well, everybody else is getting by. like Everybody else, this would have passed for anyone else, but you are challenging me to truly become like the best version of myself.
00:20:30
Speaker
like I appreciate her for sending you back to the drawing board. Absolutely. Look at you now. On top of that, I appreciate those those three scholars yeah challenging you in front of everyone else. And just like, because that's monumental. That's something you will never forget. look how you were able to then forge, yeah you know,
00:20:54
Speaker
relationships Like you got to work with and and for a lack of better words, a mentor. Yeah, for sure. Like you, you took it upon yourself that you were so ingrained in his research and in perspective that you use it in your own. And absolutely like, that's so, that is so,
00:21:13
Speaker
synergy in a sense. and And I love that for you. And I love that for the story. On top of that, I love that you were seeking out, even though your mom probably told you to go, but I love that you- She did, she did. How- the assistance of the the career counselors on campus, like using your resources. yeah And they like, you know what?
00:21:35
Speaker
Here is this, you know, this personality test that'll help give you um an idea or a concept or a framework to work with it. That is so dope. Like, is that's nothing but a blessing in itself that you had the proper people around you. And I don't think we as as individuals on a regular basis recognize that the contributions of our ecosystem. Absolutely.
00:21:59
Speaker
And I just want to add to what you just said too, Zena, is that a lot of times when we experience challenges in our life, the immediate response in every, all three of them situations, my immediate response was,
00:22:14
Speaker
defensiveness, deflation. i mean, I was really like, I was really upset with Dr. Stroman when she first said that. I was like, come on, like, that's like, why are you like, in my mind, I'm help a brother out I'm just trying to get out of this program. Like, why are you making...
00:22:29
Speaker
me go back and do more work. And then when the, when the faculty members were grilling me, i I really was like, I felt some type of way. I was like, y'all are just trying to flex on me. This isn't cool, man. Like if y'all wanted me to do the PhD, you could have talked to me one-on-one on the side, but that was, i was immature in, in a, in a lot of ways and understanding a part of my growth has to come with a healthy level of discomfort.
00:22:56
Speaker
yeah And the challenge is, Believe it or not, and this is for your audience, what Zena was just saying is that there are many challenges in your life that are intended to be transformational moments in your trajectory.
00:23:09
Speaker
You're looking at it as like this is an immediate challenge. This is annoying. This is frustrating. But in actuality, and I'm a spiritual person, so for those who aren't spiritual, just take it for however you want to take it.
00:23:22
Speaker
God is going to allow you when God's trying to get your attention. He's going to create so much discomfort and so much thing in your way that there's going to be a moment where all you got to do is sit. Like you can't do nothing else but focus on what he's trying to tell you.
00:23:39
Speaker
yeah And in all three of those moments, I was trying to like, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that. na na And God was like, no, look, but out you sit down. That's it. It's like, I can almost like ah I can hear my mother's voice and Zena knows my mom, my Jewel.
00:23:54
Speaker
If anybody's met my mom, if she gives you a look and says something, this is all black mothers, and just says something in a particular tone, I don't care how tough you think you are, how grown you think you are, you're going to sit down and going say, yes, ma'am.
00:24:10
Speaker
And God similarly does that in our lives where it's like, enough is enough. I'm trying to do something through you, but it's going to require you to sit down And make adjustments and follow the path that I'm laying out for you.
00:24:26
Speaker
And that idea, my mom used always tell me about be be obedient, trust and obey. That was always her phrase, trust and obey. And she's talking about have faith in God, that God is going to protect you.
00:24:39
Speaker
He's going to order your steps. He's going to guide you. But the other part of that is you got to be obedient. You got to do what he's calling you to do, even if you don't want to do it, even if you can't see where because the idea of faith is a substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen.
00:24:54
Speaker
So if you already knew what it was going to be, it's not really faith. Right. Like you got to say, I'm trusting you. got and And that's how I had to make them. i was like, because when I went down to Georgia for grad school, I had never mo lived outside of the state of North Carolina. So.
00:25:08
Speaker
At that time, when I was applying for jobs, was like, man, I'm not trying to leave North Carolina. I might move to Charlotte. I might move to Raleigh, but I'm not like this is my world. Like, I don't really want to leave. And he ah opened that door for me to go down to Georgia to work with Dr. Hawkins. I was like, OK, it was about four hours from Greensboro and about an hour outside of Atlanta.
00:25:28
Speaker
And even though the Ph.D. process was challenging on a lot of different levels. Like I could feel that God was molding me for something. And like you said, now that I look at where I am now, I can see clearly what God was doing with me.
00:25:43
Speaker
And it really just requires faith and obedience. It's like you're not going to know exactly what the outcome is, but you know who is ordering your steps and have faith in God.
00:25:54
Speaker
You ain't got to have faith in yourself. Just have faith in God. Like, God, I trust you and i'm gonna be obedient. And I believe because at that time I was making other decisions for myself. that were detrimental. A lot of young people in your 20s and at that time, if you really don't know what you're doing, even if you got a support system around you, if you're being hardheaded, like a lot of us young people were, um you're going to try to do things on your own. And I just kept getting into either trouble or just bad circumstances. And I got to the point, I'm like, God, i ain't got the answers.
00:26:24
Speaker
You know what I'm saying? I kind of joke like when ah Kanye was like, you ain't got the answers, Sway. was like, Joey, you ain't got the answers. I definitely didn't have the answers. And I had to humble myself. So that's another message to your audience.
00:26:38
Speaker
Right before your breakthrough, It's going to come a level of humility and humbleness that you you have never had in your life before. So you might feel like you've been humble before, but there's going to be a moment where you're really humble.
00:26:53
Speaker
yeah Yeah. That's right before that breakthrough happens. And that's what I had to happen. I just had to get to the point where, all right, I don't have it all figured out. um That's OK. Some of my friends do. Other people do.
00:27:05
Speaker
But I don't. And I'm OK with that. Like, I'm OK with my journey, my journey. that's And I'm sorry, I'm giving your audience another jewel. Your journey is your journey. Like, do not. I know in social media, IG, everything is easy to compare.
00:27:21
Speaker
God only created one you in the whole human history. There will never be another you ever. What God has purposed you to do, what is for you is for you and nobody else.
00:27:33
Speaker
So you're not in competition. There's always going to be somebody who's going to make more money than you. So if you're trying to be whatever, somebody going to there's always going somebody who got more followers than you, somebody who whatever, whatever.
00:27:45
Speaker
But what God has purposed you to do, and I believe as a spiritual person, when we die, God ain't going to be like, yo, did you do this? Did you do that? Did you do what I called you to do? yeah you go And you got to get to the point in your life where I am excited and focused on what God's calling for my life is.
00:28:02
Speaker
And I will have an inner peace. That surpasses all understanding. I might not have the the the the fame that this person have. I might not do this or do that or whatever, but I'm at peace with what I have and what God is calling me to do because I know that I'm operating in my purposes. And I always tell people you got multiple purposes. if People want to say I want a purpose in life.
00:28:24
Speaker
I can name 10 people in your life and you serve different purposes for all 10 of them. So you got multiple purposes in life that you're meant to fulfill. We all have a born date and a deceased date.
00:28:35
Speaker
That dash in between is what God is calling in our purposes. So what are you doing in that dash? Because we all going to the first in the end at some point. But the dash is where you got to find your purpose. And that's where your challenges are a part of your journey. It's a part of your you what they say in church.
00:28:52
Speaker
The test is a part of your testimony. I was literally about to be like, you better testify. yeah Amen. Amen. And that's what I'm saying. Like your battle scars are actually your badges of honor. Like that that' that's actually what your strength, your strength comes from the adversity.
00:29:09
Speaker
yeah You know, if you really think about like, how can you really motivate and help somebody else who's going through some real difficult stuff if you didn't go through it? Like if your life was all good, you got an inheritance, you done did this, you're doing that, you like life ain't hard for you.
00:29:24
Speaker
Then when you're trying to mentor, you're trying to inspire, people going to look at you like, yeah what what relatability do you have? But if you say, no, let me give you a story about where I really fell short. Let me give you a story about when I was really confused.
00:29:37
Speaker
Let me give you a story where I made a horrible decision. I was in a horrible place, but i picked my god God picked me up. Like you said, I connected with my support systems. Yeah. And there are people in your life who are going to serve different purposes to help you get to where you're meant to be. So anyways, I could go on, but I'll pause. I love it. I i there were so many jewels in there. Like my pen, my pen died. So I'm still holding it, but it doesn't have any more ink in it.
00:30:03
Speaker
Even though you can see the ink, there's no more ink in my pen. So sitting here trying to take notes. And look, I'm just gonna review to the the the. the audio and I encourage y'all to revisit this because he dropped at least like six different gems thus far in this entire conversation.
00:30:21
Speaker
But one thing I do want to segue into, um I was going to ask like what keeps you going, but clearly it's your spirituality. So I don't think that, I don't think that that needs to be honed in outside of us just discussing how it's infused and everything else. So I want to discuss your process.
00:30:36
Speaker
no yeah Um, And this is really more about the application that you just brought up. How has your thinking evolved as you've advanced in your and and you've touched on this, but from from being the the the high school athlete to being, you know, a collegiate athlete to being becoming a scholar to going into spaces that.
00:31:01
Speaker
are really designed to silence you in several facets. I'm i'm just, i'm I'm curious as to how has your your personal evolution occurred? Like, can you can you lean into that? Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. I mean, I could put it, and i could I could frame it in this way. So the maturity has involved my consciousness about my habits, my energy, and my connections.
00:31:28
Speaker
And so what I mean by that is, Growing up, your parents kind of organized your life. So if you go into an activity, you go into a game, even in sports, like the coaches pretty much tell you what to do.
00:31:40
Speaker
So there were a lot of things I was doing that I really wasn't thinking about. Like it was just like I was doing it because I was told to do it. And this is what I do. As you get older and you mature, particularly as an adult,
00:31:54
Speaker
A lot of those kind of guide rails is not that they're not there anymore, but the the the idea of you becoming an adult is that you create your own structure. Right. Like because your mom and dad ain't gonna always be there to tell you X, Y, Z. You're not going to have a coach that's always going to structure.
00:32:11
Speaker
So I became more conscious of. The reason why I when I'm in a good flow and when I'm in in ah in in a good, successful mode personally and professionally, and I'm talking about like with friendships and intimate relationships, it's because my habits were in a good space.
00:32:29
Speaker
So that means like whatever exercising, praying, going to church, eating white, Being mindful of the music I'm listening to, like having a balance, like not overly listening to some of the hip hop that I really I love it. But, you know, it ain't always the best message. yeah and There's some other spirits in that music. Like I love the artist.
00:32:51
Speaker
Tupac is my favorite artist of all time. But if you listen to all of his music, the beauty of it is he exemplified the complexity of the human condition. The love, the anger, the hate, the positivity, the violence, the trauma.
00:33:05
Speaker
So like all of that is there. But if you overindulge in the one side, it can influence your behavior. yeah So I was more conscious of like, what are my habits?
00:33:17
Speaker
And when I was not doing well, it wasn't that Joey isn't good enough. Joey isn't smart enough. It's that my habits were off. So I started to think, OK, how do I create ah Like whether like when I started grad school, I kind of just organically fell into I'm going to read stuff related to my topic, not just when I have class, but in general. Like I just I got to I got to feed myself with it. I got to I got to learn. I got to and I'm going to read certain things that are not even related to my topic, but it's intellectually stimulating.
00:33:51
Speaker
Because somewhere along the line, that's going to help me make sense of something related to what I'm trying to do. So it was like a shift in my mind about what are my habits, especially during times where there's just not a lot going on. So like in sports, you got the offseason, the preseason, the season and then the playoffs.
00:34:13
Speaker
Most people are like preseason. I'm locked in because it's right before the season starts in season. I'm good because, you know, it's the season. Everybody's looking at you, whatever, whatever.
00:34:24
Speaker
Playoffs. That's where legends are made. So you want to make sure you write for the championships where most people fall off is that offseason. Because now it's like, well, everybody ain't watching you. You know saying? You could kind of slack off and then just get right in the preseason.
00:34:39
Speaker
But the difference between like the great ones and the ones who were just right or good is what they were doing in the offseason. yeah And so that was like a shift in my mind to habits.
00:34:50
Speaker
The second thing is my energy. So I've always been a positive person. But like most of us, whenever you are an emotional person,
00:35:01
Speaker
When you're happy, you're really happy. When you're sad, you're really sad. When you're angry, you're really angry. And I had a hard time when I had those emotions of sadness, anger, disappointment, jealousy, whatever you want to call it. All of those emotions that we all have on some level, because my energy, i didn't and this is where my consciousness came about.
00:35:28
Speaker
My energy is a part of my secret weapon. Right. And I always knew that on the positive side, like with my friends, with people who met me, even when I'm doing like public speaking or whatever, I always knew like, oh, I got it. I got the light when I'm like this.
00:35:44
Speaker
Like I can i'm I'm in it. I'm in my zone. Boom, boom, boom. What I didn't realize is that I did not really self-regulate when I was in the negative emotions.
00:35:54
Speaker
Okay. and And I just had trouble because in my mind, like a lot of us, and even like Hoopers, this is why always when I talk to young black holistic athletes, Don't ever tell yourself that you're a born athlete and you're born there, because the problem is if you're born that, that means you don't have to work at it and like you don't have to think about doing it. So a lot of us growing up when I was hooping growing up, i always thought like, yeah, i'm I'm a black. I'm a brother. Of course I can The problem with that is that and you take for granted the process. Like what you're asking me right now, you're not thinking about the process that made you great.
00:36:32
Speaker
The process that made me great was I watched a lot of basketball. I went to a lot of, I played on the playground a whole lot. I played with older guys. Like there was a process that made me good. It wasn't that I was just born good.
00:36:46
Speaker
um So the energy part was I had to be mindful. What are some of the patterns that, In my life to where my energy on the negative side goes to an excessive level.
00:36:58
Speaker
Right. And I realized some of that was my own self-talk. OK. Like telling myself. So it's funny how some people you could be really confident in certain aspects, but the same person can talk real bad about themselves.
00:37:10
Speaker
Like about, yo, I'm the best hooper in the in North Carolina. But then it'd be like, I go and do something academic. I'm not as smart as whoever. Like, dog, you just said you was like, come on. Like, where, where you, you just, you were supposed to be. Yeah. You that dude. Right.
00:37:23
Speaker
Nah, I ain't that dude. Right. yes So I, i I had to talk myself into believing in myself and I had to be mindful of the energy. So I had people at the church I went to, people in the community, even some family members who didn't always say it in an overt way, but kind of like sneak disson that they kind of placed limitations on me, like as to what they thought I could do and be.
00:37:49
Speaker
And The immature version of me allowed that energy to infiltrate my spirit. Oh, my cousin, my uncle, my aunt, whatever, doesn't think I'm whatever this person or whatever this girl that I used to date doesn't whatever. I allowed that energy into my spirit.
00:38:07
Speaker
And as I got older, I became conscious. That's their energy. I don't have to let it in my spirit. Like the only energy that comes in here is what I allow to come in here. So even if you're trying to tell, I say that's what you think about me, but that's not what God thinks about me. That's not what people who are. So I was very mindful once I figured out, like, my energy is is a secret weapon. And this is something that I got to protect.
00:38:30
Speaker
yeah I got to create boundaries, healthy boundaries, even amongst people who I love. It's like, hey, I'm engage with you. But the moment your energy gets to this. Yeah. Hey, boom, boom, boom, boom. I'm fighting it all. Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.
00:38:43
Speaker
So that energy, so the habits and the energy. And then the other thing that you mentioned earlier that I want to hit home for the audience is, Your connections matter. Like ah Will Smith and a number of other people have used this quote.
00:38:55
Speaker
And I always say it. Show me the five closest people to you and I'll tell you what you're doing with your life. And what it's mean is it doesn't mean that you're going to be doing the exact same things as those five closest people.
00:39:06
Speaker
But the way that those five people are moving yeah their energy, their habits, their ambition, their mentality, their there there. That's going to influence you. It's like energy and is is contagious.
00:39:19
Speaker
So if you're around a bunch of people who just complain, who are always mad, who are living in the past, who are always, you know, like lazy, whatever, then even if you don't want to be that just by virtue of being connected to that is going to impact you.
00:39:35
Speaker
So a part of me and and and here's another quote that's important. if If you're the smartest person in your group, you need to widen your circle. So that means I had to learn. I got to be connected with people who stimulate me, who motivate me, who help take me to places that I'm trying to go.
00:39:54
Speaker
And not just be loyal to a group of people that at a particular point in my life, it made sense. And it doesn't mean you got to cut off everybody. you It just means that as you're elevating in your own trajectory, it's going to require different type of connections in your life.
00:40:11
Speaker
And so you got to be mindful of how to manage those relationships. Some of the let me be very clear. Some of the relationships in your life are intended to be for season. Yes. So there are some people that you got to be like no more.
00:40:22
Speaker
Some of them and we're keeping it a buck. You shouldn't have been connected with in the first place. And then there are a lot of people who are dated a lot of people who I was friends with. I'm talking about like best friends with. If I'm being honest, we should have never even got to that level.
00:40:37
Speaker
But once again, that's a part of my growth. And that that's not to devalue them. If I'm being honest, the way that I was then, I wasn't the best thing for them either. You see what I'm saying? Like I wasn't healthy for them either because I wasn't the best version of myself.
00:40:52
Speaker
The other thing is that there are other people throughout your life. The role that they play in your life, those connections is going to be different. I'll give a good ex example. The way that your parents love you when you were zero to six is different than when you were seven to 12, when you were 13 to 18, 19.
00:41:08
Speaker
nineteen The way that the the love is the same. Right. It's unconditional. You're their children. They got your back. But what they were doing for you at that point is different than what you needed at a different developmental phase.
00:41:21
Speaker
So I had to. And this is even with my own biological parents. I had to really understand that my connection to them and what I need from them, what I should expect from them should adjust as my trajectory adjusts.
00:41:36
Speaker
Yes. And that's a real hard thing when you're growing up. Because, you know, like we all grew up in an era like, yo, never change, stay loyal, whatever. And I'm thinking to myself back in the day, that made sense. Like I need to be who I am no matter what.
00:41:50
Speaker
But then I'm like, if I don't never change, then I'm never growing. Like I got to change on some level, like for the better. i don't need to change for the worse. But like if I'm the exact same Joey that I was in middle school, in high school, in college, there's no way I could be what I'm trying to be at this point in my life. So I got to be able to discern habits, energy, and connections that are beneficial at each phase of my life and be willing to make those adjustments at different phases. So even from a training standpoint, some of the training I did in high school that would allow me to be a good high school athlete, it' not that same training isn't going to work at the college level. I learned that the hard way.
00:42:27
Speaker
was like, dang, I'm doing the same stuff. These brothers is just like killing me out here. You know what I'm saying? I'm thinking, yo, I was good in high school, but this is another level. So it requires another level of training.
00:42:39
Speaker
Same thing, like, I remember in high school, if I had to read, like, a book for a class, it was, like... like watching paint dry. Like it was so. like like this we about that by the day right By the time I got to grad school, I was devouring books. And you're talking about somebody who did not like to read.
00:42:55
Speaker
You're talking to somebody when my mom would take me to my reading tutor, I would be kicking, screaming, crying. I don't want to go. I don't want to go. But this is back to your point around having people in your life who are wise and who love you.
00:43:10
Speaker
They're going to have you do things that you don't want to do at parts in your life that are going to help with your trajectory in ways that you can't imagine. So when I got to grad school and I'm up here devouring books, I'm like, thank you, mom.
00:43:22
Speaker
Like, thank you for taking me to two thank you. For forcing me to do things like book projects for classes. I'm trying to get the spark notes and the cliff notes. She's like, no, you're going to read the book.
00:43:34
Speaker
right You're going to sit there and realize, mom, I read slow. I don't want to do it. Then give yourself more time. I don't care how long it takes for you to do it. If it takes your classmates two hours to read it and it takes you 10, you're going to read it in 10 and you're going highlight and do whatever you need to do.
00:43:50
Speaker
ah And all of that helped me later on. Like, once again, you asked me about my process. The process was about being conscious of habits, of energy, of connections and understanding how to manage that process.
00:44:05
Speaker
as a young man and as a grown man in ways that like the Bible says, when you were a child, you do things that are childish. When you become grown, you put childish things away.
00:44:16
Speaker
That was my process. I had to go through that growth of, I've got to I've got to own this and understand it for myself. My mom has taught me this. My father gave me certain things, other people.
00:44:27
Speaker
But I got to do it. My brother helped me. And so but I got to figure out what works for me because my process and my formula is going to be different than my brother. It's going to be different than my mom, different than my father. Like they did what they had to do.
00:44:41
Speaker
But I got to figure out what's the formula. There's aspects that are universal in terms of positive energy, being open-minded, listening, discipline and all that.
00:44:52
Speaker
But the way that that looks in all of our lives, some people, they wake up at 4 a.m. every morning. I'm not a morning person. So that ain't going to my thing, baby. Now, if you want me to stay up till four in the morning,
00:45:04
Speaker
Back in the day, we was turned up. We was up till four in the morning. Now I can stay till four in the morning doing productive things, not just out getting turned up. But I know that like the nighttime in the evening, I'm just, that's my flow.
00:45:18
Speaker
I'm not a morning person. So if you were like, Joey, this is how you got to do it. That's not going to work. Like I can do some things productive in the morning, but I know me like that ain't me. So it's like, if if we all got to drink a gallon of water a day, like, you know, they say,
00:45:32
Speaker
you need to drink a gallon of water every day. Some people, they'll be like, all right, I'm going to drink a quarter of water every hour. That ain't going to be me. At breakfast, I'll drink about a third of that joint.
00:45:44
Speaker
At lunch, I'll drink the third. And at dinner, I'll drink the rest. I'll be good. Joey, I feel as though a great way to summarize your your process is that it is important to learn yourself. Yes. And it is important to to know what your likes are, what your dislikes are, but even more so to challenge why you like something or challenge why you dislike something.
00:46:11
Speaker
And I think that's very valuable within your story as well as for our listeners to really process. Like, yes, you you need to learn What you enjoy as an individual opposed to what you are being told to enjoy or what you were being told to like or what you are being told to dislike. And that whole learning and and what is, I'm going to say a about I'm going to say dislearning. That's not. No, absolutely. No, that's important to what you learn and what you unlearn are equally important.
00:46:42
Speaker
Because there's a lot of stuff that we are taught, even by some people that love us, that we don't need to learn. If we're just being honest, like you got to be able to discern the message from the messenger.
00:46:54
Speaker
So like I say, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Like sometimes you can get a message from a good person that isn't meant for you to internalize. yeah And that comes with growth. And I love the way you say learn yourself because learning yourself will allow you to truly love yourself.
00:47:11
Speaker
So a lot of my disdain and discontent is because, to your point, I didn't really learn who I was and I was measuring my worth.
00:47:22
Speaker
based on friends, based on family members. I'm like, oh, I i should be them. I should be doing this. And that's not like, once I learned who I really was and I began to love that, I was able to sit so good in my skin. and I can go to a family reunion. i don't care who's doing what. I'm good because I'm me. I'm good.
00:47:41
Speaker
You know what I'm saying? Like, no, I ain't got this award. I ain't do that. But I'm good. You know what I'm saying? I'm I'm I'm good. and And the people who resonate with that, day they feel it, too.
00:47:51
Speaker
They like, yo, cool. You doing you like that's good. And so that's I love the idea of learning yourself and equally, like you say, learning, unlearning certain things and loving being good with who you are.
00:48:04
Speaker
Like you are made perfectly the way you are. Like do not. And I struggled with this. Like, man I wish I was taller. If I was six three, I would have been better than Chris Paul and John Wall and Steph Curry. If I would have did this or if I could have had that. And it's like, all you're doing is you're diminishing the greatness that God, shout out to greatness, baby.
00:48:24
Speaker
You're diminishing the greatness that God bestowed on you. When you are comparing yourself to because God didn't want you to be that. If God wanted you to be that, you would be that. be that yeah So guess what? A lot of them people that you are up here wishing you were, there's aspects of you today. Like, I wish I was that.
00:48:42
Speaker
So like you got to get a big old track. yeah Yeah. Love yours. Love yours. Yes. Yes. Straight like that. Oh my gosh. See, I knew this was going to be a great episode. Absolutely. I'm so grateful. yeah Y'all, hope y'all are eating this up. I hope you your plans of paper out. I hope you even hit like the back button a few times so that you can reread and re-listen to this because...
00:49:02
Speaker
uh dr cooper came with the fire today i'm so grateful um but i do i need you to um to talk about like what's next what do you have going on i know you just dropped a book yeah and i hope i got the title right properly yeah you got it tell us like how can we find you what do you have in the works how can we support you yeah i appreciate that um well i'm currently at umass boston um you know we just launched this institute for innovative leadership in sport new balance Gave us some support for that. um I'll make sure Zena has my social media. I'm not super active. Like just to give y'all over you. I told y'all around my age, Facebook was created when I was in college. So yeah a lot of like X, IG, all of that came and I was like much older. yeah I don't I'm not as active on all that stuff. But I mean, you could just look me up. My email is josephn.cooper at UMB.edu.
00:49:57
Speaker
But make sure you put the N in there, josephn.cooper. um But yeah, I mean, you know, I respond to email. He has too much greatness to be out here not not ah not pumping his brain. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, I'm going to connect with Xena to see if I can get some more visibility with greatness. But um yeah, I mean, check out the book, Black Sporting Resistance, Diaspora, Transnationalism, Internationalism.
00:50:23
Speaker
um the ah The previous book, From Exploitation Back to Empowerment, Black Male Holistic Underdevelopment Through Sport and Miseducation. And then the um the second book, A Legacy of African-American Resistance and Activism Through Sport. um You know, there's some videos on YouTube that I got like from the past. So You can look up Joseph Cooper. You can put collective uplift for black athletes in.
00:50:47
Speaker
um It'll come up. So, yeah, i mean, in terms of what's next, I'm working on a sequel to the black sporting resistance book where I'm going to be looking at black sports persons in Africa, across the continent and those in the Pacific region.
00:51:03
Speaker
So some of our brothers and sisters like Aboriginal folks in First Nations, Wananatu, Fiji, looking at black people in Cape Verde, Cabo Verde and another place. And so i'm working on that.
00:51:16
Speaker
um We just put out a national black sport participation and physical activity report. So if you go, if you Google new balance Institute for innovative leadership in sport,
00:51:26
Speaker
the link for that will come up. So check that out. Real proud of that. um Other than that, supporting greatness, you know, that's in my immediate future. Making sure that we we get Xena to the highest heights because we need the real at the top of the game of, you know, communication, innovation, entertainment, education, and empowerment.
00:51:46
Speaker
So, ah but yeah, other than that you know, just, you know, being a good husband to my wife, being a good father to my children. um And yeah, that's that's kind of where I'm at. I love it. Oh, my gosh. Y'all, we're going to get him right because he needs to be on somebody's speaker circuit, somebody's training circuit. like whatever I'm happy to do it. Like I say, back to what Zena said about the networks.
00:52:10
Speaker
Certain things are just not my skill set. So like the marketing, you know, that's just that's not my thing. So working with Zena and other folks. who are more skilled at that and who like just know how to do that um is really helpful. And I think that's just kind of a last message that I'll leave with you all is that,
00:52:28
Speaker
You're going to have strengths that you possess and it's OK to not be great at everything. The reality is nobody is great at everything. And the greatness shout out to greatness, the brand, the greatness is you maximizing your greatness and connecting with other people's greatness. So I always tell my students, you need to be the MVP, the most valuable in your position.
00:52:50
Speaker
So when I played sports, like I was the point guard, but if I tried to be the center and tried to be Shaq, that just ain't me. You know saying? But if you wanted me to make a pass, hit a shot, like I can do that.
00:53:02
Speaker
But it's it's like, you gotta be great at what you're great in. It doesn't mean you put limits on yourself. If you want to learn how to do something, you can learn and be great at it. But just don't put so much press on yourself that I gotta be great at everything. Cause the people who are at the highest levels of any field or industry,
00:53:20
Speaker
What they understood is that I'm really great at this, but I got to have other people who are great at other things. And that's going to allow me to get to the top of what I'm trying to do. So. um So, yeah, I'm happy. Anybody want to collaborate on anything of my expertise that could add value to your work and vice versa? Hit me up and we can do that.
00:53:40
Speaker
I love it I love it I'm all about staying in your lane. like Yeah, real talk. I'm all about... um Look, even if you you take it as a a complete driving analogy, stay in your lane. You don't want to try to get anybody. Absolutely. Stay in your lane. That's real.
00:53:53
Speaker
Put your blinker on if you need to. Yeah. I'm all about everybody operating in their greatness and their strengths. Yes. Yes. So... I appreciate you. appreciate you. You up here preaching too. You dropping them jewels.
00:54:07
Speaker
and know dad That's going to be another t-shirt, baby. We got to get the merch for it. you know Straight like that. When I repeat this, I will see what we can pull out. Let's do it. Let's do it. I love it. All right. Well, my last question, and then I'm going respect your time. ah yeah What is one thing that people do not know about you that you're willing to take public?
00:54:29
Speaker
Oh, I think. Man, I'm trying to think something that would be interesting. Oh, did I stump him? I stumped him, y'all. Yeah, I mean, I got like like one, like I got a couple that I'll say that that ones that I always say. One, um me and my mother were born on the same day, September 5th.
00:54:46
Speaker
So most people don't know that, but that's a special bond, like to be born. on the same day as your parents. So that's something people don't know. Um, I'm a big Butterfinger fan. So like if you do anything and it has Butterfinger in it, I'm all about it. I just, that's my joint.
00:55:02
Speaker
Um, I'm trying to think of some other... I mean, don't really have no hidden talents or anything like that. It's that education thing. He has to speak in threes. This is something that... Yeah, threes. Yeah, real talk. Real talk. always like having... And I don't know. Honestly, that might come from growing up listening to not just hip-hop music, but R&B. When you think about how a song is set up, it's got the intro, it's got the bridge, got the second verse, the bridge, and then the...
00:55:29
Speaker
the the The high point. So I think a lot of that and, you know, like growing up in the church, like the pastor would read the scripture. contextualize it and then apply it like, and then go into, so it's the the threes, but to, to what Xena is just mentioned, I know that for me, the threes, that's a part of my flow.
00:55:47
Speaker
So that's just kind of my cadence with things. So I stick to that. So um another thing that I'll say that people don't know about me, um've I've been, I'm not widely traveled, but I've been,
00:56:01
Speaker
to Brazil. um I went to Northeastern Brazil, Bahia, where a lot of Afro-Brazilians. A lot of people don't know, like during the Transatlantic atrocity, most of the Africans that were brought over here were actually brought to South America um and the Caribbean islands. Like, although there are a lot of us here in the United States, a lot of our our people were brought down there. So I've been there, um you know, but yeah, I've been to Canada multiple times. I've been obviously to the Caribbean islands,
00:56:28
Speaker
But um I haven't been to Africa, the continent yet. I'd love to get there to Liberia. um But there are some other places. But yeah, being going to Brazil, I think that's the furthest place that I've traveled to. We were in Sao Paulo, which is south, kind of south central Brazil.
00:56:45
Speaker
um And then we went to there. So I'd say me and my mom, same birthday. Butterfingers, my favorite candy. And Brazil's the farthest places that I've traveled. So we got to hit you with the three, you know?
00:56:58
Speaker
you You did. Look, look. And he didn't even let me derail him, which is a whole nother conversation that we can discuss. Like, I'm just so grateful at your coyness. I am grateful at your your ability to remain structured, even while I'm throwing all of these ifs, ands, and buts at you. um This has just been a very pleasurable conversation.
00:57:20
Speaker
And I am so grateful for your time. And to the listeners, I'm grateful for your attention because we have gone around the world and back literally with this this conversation. And if you're still with us, we are so grateful for you. Yeah.
00:57:35
Speaker
I want to add to what you just said too, Zina, about like the way that I did it. i had to grow into that because when you're being your authentic self, there are a lot of people that are going to tell you,
00:57:49
Speaker
like there's something wrong with that. So I'm a verbose person. So I get it all the time that people like you talk too much, you're not concise enough. You didn't answer the question in the way.
00:58:00
Speaker
And back in the day, like, you know, that would hurt my feelings or I'd feel whatever. But the older I got, it's more like, no, I got to flow the way I flow. And like for the people that it resonates with, it'll resonate with the people that it they don't, they don't. So there are some things like I've done some speaking things where they're like, oh, we appreciate that. That was good.
00:58:19
Speaker
Other times I don't get invited back or it didn't resonate with them. But my goal isn't to try to please everybody. It's just I got to flow the way I flow and it'll connect. So this kind of gets to another overarching message audience.
00:58:33
Speaker
Be your authentic self and it'll it'll resonate with who is supposed to resonate with. Big fact. You cannot expect. It's almost like a good example be the Kendrick Lamar halftime show. Ah, here we go.
00:58:45
Speaker
Without us going all the way into it, there are a lot of people who felt like it was artistic. It was hot. It was like whatever. Boom. So you got that side. You got the other side, including a lot of Drake fans who were like, it wasn't all that. It was whatever, whatever.
00:59:01
Speaker
And then you got people in the middle that are like, all right, it wasn't the greatest of all time, but it wasn't whack. So the the analysis of the Kendrick Lamar halftime show, you should expect that for yourself whenever you're being your authentic self.
00:59:15
Speaker
There's going a group of people who going to get it the way that you as the artist intended, and they're going to be like, yo, I feel it. I got all the messages, subliminal, whatever. There are going people who are like, nah, that was whack. You ain't, whatever, whatever.
00:59:30
Speaker
then there going to people who kind of like, it wasn't whack, but you ain't. But you got to be cool with all of that. The same energy you give into the people that adore and respect it, the people that don't, it's all good.
00:59:40
Speaker
you know Back to the point I was talking about, like the energy, you just got to have your barrier to energy, cool, If there's some constructive feedback, like, you know, I got some constructive feedback from my GI. I don't know if I have rocked the jeans like that, but that's his swag. you you Do you, baby?
00:59:55
Speaker
um You know, yeah I mean, that's his swag. Do you? You what I'm saying? he He the one with the Grammys and, you know, shout out to PG Lang and his whole movement. But, you know, like there are certain things if it was me, I would do, but I'm not him and he ain't me. So I'm not going to if I would have done it, he probably would have gave me feedback like, coolop you could have did this and that better. So to Zena's last point, she's been dropping so many jewels for y'all to be your authentic self and be OK with everybody ain't going to receive it in a certain way. And they're not supposed to.
01:00:25
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like if you're meant to bless certain people, be okay that you're blessing them. Don't be mad that you ain't blessing the people who either don't want the blessing or who just didn't receive it. So just this be cool with yourself. I'm going to leave it with this.
01:00:38
Speaker
And I know Joey going to hop back in and play. No, no, no, no, I'm going to let you end it. It's your show. No, no, no, no. This isn't even an end ah in portion. It's ah it's a gem from my dad. my dad gave Shout out to Uncle Tommy. You know, I love him. love him.
01:00:52
Speaker
um But he has made some serious impacts. My father instilled in me that you cannot please everyone. Amen. Real talk. And that was difficult for me. yeah ah Because, you know, I was I i used to be.
01:01:07
Speaker
Well, I don't know if I'm really technically a people pleaser. I'm pretty sure I come off as a people pleaser at one point in time in life. But that was a difficult lesson for me to even process that. Oh, everybody can't be happy.
01:01:20
Speaker
they They can't. They should be. and you should you should strive for your own personal happiness. yeah But keep in mind that it is not your responsibility to make other people.
01:01:32
Speaker
happy if that makes sense so you can't you can't you can't please everyone so the one entity that you can please is the creator the one entity that you can physically is yourself so you i would highly suggest that you focus on your own two feet and you focus on what makes you the greatest version of yourself so that you can do the work so that you can move forward so that you can become the greatest version of yourself. So, yeah um, no, all right. Circling back.
01:02:02
Speaker
I'm, I'm just grateful. and I'm grateful for you too, Zena. That was perfectly stated. And I learned as much from you as you did from me in this conversation. And I really, Hope all your audience continue to tune in to these episodes.
01:02:15
Speaker
Share it with your... i um I'm not even active on IGNX, but I'm to find a way to... I'm to share this on my IGNX. That's how it is. And in ah in the other shows, I'm a follow you on IGNX. So whenever your things come up, I'll share it.
01:02:29
Speaker
um I might have to ask Monique, my wife, to help me out with that because I'm not really with it. Don't get you squared away, I'm telling you. I'll figure out how to do it and we'll make it happen, but... No, this was really fun, Zina. I love you dearly. I love everybody in your family. And I'm so proud of you. And just know you got i know you got a million millions of supporters worldwide, but I'm among those top supporters of you, whatever you need.
01:02:54
Speaker
Just proud of you walking in your greatness and shining your light on the world. You're inspiring a lot of people. by what you're doing and helping them believe in their own greatness and manifest their greatness. So just keep keep walking in your callings and you know anything I can do to support you, just let me know.
01:03:11
Speaker
I appreciate you so much. And I appreciate y'all for hanging in here with us on this immaculate conversation. um Yeah, I think that that's enough.
01:03:23
Speaker
I think we're going to drop it right here. Okay, okay. Thank you so much. dr Dr. Cooper, thank you for joining us. Audience, thank you for tuning in. This has been- Y'all, it's funny to hear her call me Dr. Cooper. I'm her cousin, Joey. So every time she say that, I'm like, Zia, you making me feel old and- All former, just call me Joey. I'm cousin Joey. You feel Not when we're like the same age though. Right, right, right. I mean, a little bit, but I ain't that much. I mean, we about the same age. You feel me? We about the same age. Right, right.
01:03:53
Speaker
Because I don't do it. It's funny because as I was prepping for this conversation, because I don't call you Dr. Cooper. I was like, but he deserves it. And he should know that we are very much proud yeah of of this accolade and of this growth and of this journey and process for you.
01:04:10
Speaker
So I'm absolutely going to say dr Cooper. I'm going to call you Joey too. I appreciate that. Whenever I hear doctor, you know, i think about our parents and older folks, like even though I know we're getting older, I just...
01:04:21
Speaker
you know i don't think of us as that but you're right i mean we are that like that's who we've become and that's who our parents raised us to be so it is always important to address each other with a respectful title because you know the reality is are a lot of folks in the world who intentionally don't like i have a lot of students who go out their way to say mr cooper or whatever but they'll call a colleague of mine who has a different phenotype than me their name so you know i i do appreciate i do think that's important um And I take it with a spirit of love and and how you doing it. um
01:04:53
Speaker
Even though, like I say, I can never like just looking at you at like you. but And I tell people all this all the time. Now, God willing, I live long enough to do this. But the majority of my life, I wasn't doctor. You know I'm saying? Like, it's only been I got my doctorate in 2013. So it's only been 12 years.
01:05:10
Speaker
So, like, it's still hard for me to see myself in that way when the majority my life, I wasn't that. um But it is, like you say, it's important to kind of walk in who you become and embrace it. So, but, you know, i my my love you is as this cousin, cousin, you know, more so than the doctor. But for those in the audience, you know, you know, yeah, show love to you the people in your circle as they've earned a credential, like, you know, acknowledge it and and and, you know, give them their flowers because it's important um in that way. and And, you know, like we all know that there's a difference between doing it
01:05:45
Speaker
in ah in a in a respectful way and then others who kind of like to flex you know i've i've you know we got people in i in a circle who uh you know can be more elitist about certain things and that's not cool you know what i mean like you know, just, you know, you know, let's just be mindful of that in our community too, man. Cause there's a lot of flexing within our community. That's not productive and helpful. Like we need to show love like Xena did on this call and all the the sessions, like do it in a, in a healthy way, but don't put down,
01:06:15
Speaker
other people in our community, you know, because there are a lot of intelligent folks in our community who didn't get a chance to earn a doctorate and they deserve the same respect as those in our communities who do have PhDs and MDs and JDs. So let's, you know, let's make sure that we, we ain't just because people have certain degrees and,
01:06:35
Speaker
certain titles in their careers like we want to pay respect to them but don't belittle those who um are great in other ways you know what i mean so right right right don't be a hater y'all Right, right, right. Quit hating, quit hating.
01:06:50
Speaker
Don't be a hater. Don't be a hater. But anywho, this has been another beautiful episode of The Greatness Router. I'm your host, Zena C. I had the pleasure of hanging out with my cousin, Dr. Joseph N. Cooper. I am so grateful for you. i am grateful for you, my listeners, listening in and tuning in with us.
01:07:10
Speaker
And I hope you have a beautiful, beautiful day. Peace, love, and light. It's your girl, Zena C. And I'm...
01:07:20
Speaker
And that's a wrap on this episode of The Greatness Router. If you found some value in today's conversation, be sure to subscribe, rate, and definitely share. It helps more people connect to the journey of greatness.
01:07:33
Speaker
Until next time, keep moving with purpose.