Transcript
Aaron Hagan: And welcome to Cockpit Conversations. Today's guest is Corey Klimko. Corey has a unique and interesting story of ah leaving one legacy airline, transitioning over to FedEx and actually staying there for some time and then making the very difficult personal decision that that maybe it wasn't the best fit and it was time to return.
Aaron Hagan: So ah but without a lot of me stealing the thunder here, Corey, why don't you tell us about your background and tell me about the first round of job searches that you did.
Cory: Thanks, Aaron. Appreciate you doing this and setting it up. um Well, ah yeah, have a civilian background. I got hired. ah My first airline actually, ironically, was in Memphis flying part 135.
Cory: ah That's kind of how I got my introduction to FedEx. My first jump seats were on FedEx airplanes back in 2012. I spent a year flying there, then ah a few years after that flying at the regionals. This was about 2015 timeframe.
Cory: I was a captain at Compass Airlines, and that's when hiring started picking up in that in that decade, the middle part of that decade. people started Civilian people around my age and experience started getting hired at Delta and United.
Cory: And I was really targeting at the time Alaska United and then kind of off in the distance FedEx because of, um you know, the the hiring competitiveness at FedEx years prior.
Cory: was kind of a pipe dream for a younger civilian guy like myself to get hired there. I didn't know anybody. And then one person got hired, then a second person got hired and then and then a third person. i was like, well, maybe there is a chance.
Cory: So fast forward in 2016, I got hired at United. um i was there for about six months and I was commuting at the time. And I said, you know, I'm just going to keep my app up to date at FedEx. After having gotten hired at United, I put that on there.
Cory: And within a couple of months, I heard from from FedEx. And I ah and decided to go to the interview. had done a lot of homework and a lot of research on, you know, all the companies, but, you know, specifically those two airlines, United and FedEx, um with FedEx being at the top of that list. And I decided to go the interview. And, of course, you know, that was successful. And I got hired there in 2017. And that's where I was until 2023 when I left and went back to United.
Aaron Hagan: Okay. um What was it that initially attracted you to FedEx when you were, because because stepping away from a legacy is a big step. but may
Cory: It is.
Aaron Hagan: but what what What made you think that would be a good career move and what validated that decision, if anything?
Cory: there's a couple of things that, you know, that drove me to FedEx. um One of the biggest things, you know, honestly, was Fred Smith. I wrote a lot of my college papers on FedEx and, you know, read a lot of books.
Cory: And then, ah you know, during the interview process, i read even more books about the company. And in that timeframe, I mean, it we were 15 years removed from, you know, everything that happened in 9-11. So a lot of the legacy airlines were still kind of struggling, just getting their footing back.
Cory: But meanwhile, FedEx was, you know, was ah an economic bellwether. And, you know, I i remember, um you know, growing up and seeing, you know, people get hired at FedEx that had great careers, you know, upgraded onto the MD-11 or onto the 727 early while, you know, people were furloughed at United Delta or, or laid off at TWA.
Cory: And, you know, as I was going through the regionals, you know, I, I, I took that information in that Trek record and I was like, wow, that's where I want to spend, you know, three decades flying.
Cory: um And I was able to get some bid packs from, you know, MD 11 and the seven six. And that's when I kind of realized I was like, wow, these foreign domiciles are really, really attractive as well.
Cory: Not to mention the double deadhead um and the ability to kind of live anywhere. And also growing up in Southern California, there was a Los Angeles base at the time. So it kind of checked all the boxes. It was stable.
Cory: ah The contract was really good. That was the CBA 2015. Um, they hired a lot of really, ah really solid people that really earned, you know, earned their job at FedEx. So all of those things, you know, you you kind of wrap it up in a package and you're like, wow, yeah, I want to be a part of that. I w I want to, you know, I want to be aboard the team and, and, and make it even more successful than it was.
Cory: Um, and what validated was, you know, talking to people in the industry, ah and go into job fairs and talking to the recruiters. Kim Daniels was one of them.
Cory: And just the, you know, it wasn't, um it was a healthy amount of, of, ah of trying to think of the word here,
Cory: They were, you know, they were proud of of being at FedEx. They knew they were successful pilots and people that worked there. And that kind of validated, that made me want to be a part of the team even more.
Aaron Hagan: Well, you mentioned you you came out of Compass. I know when I, my first left seat at FedEx was the 7-6 in Hong Kong.
Cory: Mm-hmm.
Aaron Hagan: And there were several former Compass guys over there. And I will validate what you said that everybody I saw who ever showed my right seat, I felt like they could swap seats with me and been you know, as good or better than I was.
Aaron Hagan: Everybody was sharp. Everybody had already kind of proved themselves.
Cory: Right. Yep.
Aaron Hagan: they There weren't a lot of weak links. And that is, you know, sometimes, and and one of the reasons I've enjoyed these conversations so much with you and Chris is sometimes you don't always appreciate what you have because you don't know what you don't have, right?
Cory: right
Aaron Hagan: You don't realize the value of that. If everybody's over in your right seat or your left seat's a rock star, and and I can say that that's pretty much been my experience at FedEx as a Pretty solid people.
Aaron Hagan: um so ah So you came over to FedEx.
Cory: yeah
Aaron Hagan: ah Talk me through your FedEx career and were you commuter when you came over?
Cory: I was. so I was living in Atlanta at the time. i got hired in the Wright-T-75. And unfortunately for me, that was middle of 2017. So they were really starting to pick up in pilot hiring. And then a lot of people were at the time going into the 75 in the Airbus.
Cory: So I kind of had kind of had in instant seniority on the 7.5. I sat a couple months of reserve and a couple months of, ah you know, ah a decent line. And then most of the time I was kind of getting what I wanted, which was the Tour America, going through Fort Worth Alliance, Longley, Irverson, Reno.
Cory: um You know, that has just started out west. Just the kind of flying that I enjoyed it. And, you know, a lot of it was night flying. But, you know, long layovers and it was cool flying the 7.5. I really enjoyed it.
Cory: um And then I think it was the bit of 2019. I decided to to you know take a stab at the 777. And I waited until COVID kicked off. I actually took my checkride.
Cory: the night that that Donald Trump came on TV and closed the borders. And I was like, oh, wow, this is getting serious. So my whole time on the 777 was COVID times. um So about a year and a half to two, about two years of that was, you know, and the the China Southern Pearl and Guangzhou and hotel room isolation and, and you know, desolate cobblestone streets in Europe, ah you know, 15 hour deadheads with a mask the whole time. So I got i got the whole bit.
Cory: um But, you know, you know we made the best of it, and I flew with a lot of great people on that airplane. My Czech airman, Bob Simeone, Bags. He's probably that my favorite guy I've ever flown with at FedEx. Probably my favorite person I've ever flown with, period.
Cory: um But, you know, made the best of it. And then finally, after that, coming out ah coming out of COVID, I took the bid to Cologne 75 left seat where I was until ah until the end. So I did that for about two and a half years when they – I announced the base closure and I left Europe and then that was kind of when I decided to to wrap it up.
Aaron Hagan: Okay. um What was the catalyst? When did you first start thinking about leaving FedEx?
Cory: Well, it was probably, you know, it was probably when I got over to Europe and the rumors started floating about them closing the base because we could see over there the amount of asl airplanes that were on the ramp.
Cory: And when I was on the triple going through Paris, you didn't see a lot of it. And I do realize that, you know, a lot of that flying was in Liège, those 737s, and that they had moved them over to Paris during that timeframe.
Cory: But you started seeing them slowly creep into some of the cities that we flew on the 7.5, Porto and Hanover and in Copenhagen. Um, so then the rumor started flying that, uh, you know, they're, you know, that they're going to close the base and deadhead everybody from Memphis. And I was like, well, okay. You know, and then the bid came out and then it confirmed that.
Cory: And I could have stayed, um, in the left seat. i would have been really junior. i would have been commuting, um, or go back to the right seat, which at the time I was really enjoying the left seat and I wanted stay in it.
Cory: So I started thinking about, you know, somewhere else. And I had a lot of friends at United and at the time they had a lot of unfilled captain vacancies out on the West coast where I'm from, San Francisco, l la and I was like, well, you know, that's, it's a, it's a pipe dream. It's an option. i didn't know if he was, if it was even something to consider. So I reached out to somebody over at United and i said, Hey, you know, this, this might be a possibility. I haven't decided on anything yet. Is this, is this something that could even happen?
Cory: And they confirmed that I could. And that's what I think kind of really got the gears turning is when I when i knew I could go back. And the the the type of hiring that United was you know was going through at the time, ah good amount of hiring, um a lot of captain positions that were available.
Cory: you know so just the ability to kind of go from one left seat to the other um and then, you know, drive to work was kind of the, that was kind of the thing that was okay, this might be an opportunity to consider and the fact that the FDA is we're closing um those, all of those things combined.
Aaron Hagan: that that was a an absolute freak of nature in this industry in time that i've been in it when we were actually hiring street captains at united that's not technically what the what it is but the fact that you pulled captain as a new hire and of course they did have a vetting procedure it took some time but still um when i started my interview coaching business
Cory: isn
Cory: Yeah.
Cory: Right.
Aaron Hagan: I was dealing with guys that got hired at US Air in 1988 or 1989 or at Piedmont. And if they didn't upgrade that one chance they had in 1992 to the Fulker 100, their entire career up until the merger ah in the early 2000s, there was no upgrade possibility.
Aaron Hagan: So that that was an an aberration in our industry.
Cory: Right. Right.
Aaron Hagan: And you know I give a lot of kudos to you for being able to look out and see something and recognize maybe an opportunity that other people just couldn't grasp or, or you know, because it is, it was a very different time.
Cory: and
Aaron Hagan: um I think a lot of our pilots who might've considered it just simply didn't know what to make of it or said, does gotta be a, this has gotta be a fluke. um
Cory: right
Aaron Hagan: Do you have any idea how many um quote unquote new hire captains they actually ah hired?
Cory: So I don't know the exact amount, but I want to guess it's somewhere between 100 and 150. So the class that I was in did not have that option. The very next class was when they started offering captain positions to new hires. And, you know, like you said and and alluded to, it really isn't street captains. They were awarded it in Indoc.
Cory: Uh, and they had to fly as an FO for one year and also get 500 hours in United before they went to training.
Aaron Hagan: Do have a family?
Cory: So that was, that was kind of the deal for all of us. We had to at least do one year. um so the the very first class after mine up until April of 24, they had captain positions, mostly in Newark, Chicago, Denver, and San Francisco.
Cory: um And if I had to guess, I'd say it's anywhere from 100 to 150. Right. Yeah.
Aaron Hagan: okay you have a family
Cory: nope no kids um
Aaron Hagan: Yeah. One of the questions I asked was, Hey, uh, you know, the kitchen table conversations, uh, you and Chris both, uh, didn't have that issue. So that was easy.
Cory: right
Aaron Hagan: Um, I've wondered about, and I probably need to find some of the guys that have left, how they've discussed that around the kitchen table and and how that's gone over because it does, it affects the whole family, but certainly, like um,
Cory: yeah
Cory: It does. I think, um you know, you know i i've had a lot of deep conversations with some friends of mine at FedEx that were around my same seniority, ah're around my same age, you know, that were married, that had, the you know, two or three kids. And for them, it was ah it was a much harder decision. And, you know, ultimately, all of them are still at FedEx. And I could see how that's a lot harder when you have kids You know, when it's just yourself to worry about or, ah you know, ah ah ah a wife or a husband or a girlfriend or a boyfriend versus, you know, a whole family. I mean, that's ah that's a significant risk.
Cory: um And.
Aaron Hagan: Well, I've been on the buy-up plan basically since I got to FedEx or whatever the variant was before we called it the buy-up plan.
Cory: Mm
Aaron Hagan: And i I do have to say that it's been a blessing to my family and and a great bit of security.
Cory: hmm.
Aaron Hagan: So, yeah. it And one of the things that I wanted to get across in this podcast is this is neither an advocation ah to leave or an admonishment if you if you choose to do so.
Cory: right yeah
Aaron Hagan: ah
Cory: right
Aaron Hagan: This is the perspective of a couple of guys who've made some very difficult decisions. to offer a little perspective if if if somebody really thinks, and and the question I'm sure you've gotten it too, that I get on the phone is, am I crazy?
Aaron Hagan: you know am i Am I nuts to consider leaving?
Cory: yeah
Aaron Hagan: And I go, well, you know you have to be able to look ahead. And I also think that a key point, and I made this point, I think, with Chris is, if you're concerned about this contract or where we're going to be in three years or five years, am I going to be ahead or behind?
Aaron Hagan: I think you're making a mistake in the decision. right that's
Cory: Right.
Aaron Hagan: That's a very neighborless thing. the The bigger question is, can you look in the mirror at the guy and go, man, I'm happy doing this.
Cory: Yep.
Aaron Hagan: This is what I want to do for the next 20 or 25. And I think a lot of people have come to FedEx chasing the dollars, um not realizing you know the downsides.
Cory: Mm-hmm.
Aaron Hagan: there's There's a lot of pluses to it. It's been, my goodness, it's been great to me. um But you know I pour myself back from an international trip, even flying first class across the North Pacific.
Aaron Hagan: I'm ah Oakland 7-6 captain now. And know you'd think that riding in Polaris or Delta-1, you'd just come in and dive right back into your week. And that's not the case. It takes a couple of days to get your body back around.
Cory: right
Aaron Hagan: and And you feel like you're in a little bit of fog. Certainly the multiple circadian swaps like you did on the triple, you know better than most what that does to you. So I think a lot of people come here and they they don't realize the physical toll or they realize, well, hey, I i thought I could plow through this.
Aaron Hagan: But plowing through it for 25 years when I could live in L.A. or San Francisco, drive to work and lay over in Cozumel might not necessarily be the perfect solution.
Cory: Yeah.
Aaron Hagan: So when um let's talk through let's talk through saying goodbye because you've done something. Most people never do once and you've done it twice. You've left major airline.
Cory: Yeah.
Aaron Hagan: So tell me about how you were treated when you talked to FedEx or talked to, excuse me, to a United first time left. And then when you broke the news to FedEx that you were leaving.
Cory: um You know, i would say both were, were very, uh, for the most part, very professional ah with United. i actually had a ah ah mentor of mine um that wrote me a letter recommendation.
Cory: um You know, they've they've done a lot at United, check airmen. it worked in the training department and a lot of union stuff. ah So that, that, that was actually the first person I told before I even resigned from United. i was like, I need to talk to this person.
Cory: um They're very gracious. They said, you know, FedEx is going to gain a really good person and you're going to do great things. I emailed United, Newark chief pilot, and they were great.
Cory: It was just as business as usual. um You know, where are you going? Good luck. Here's where you can send your badge, so on and so forth. um With FedEx, it was a little more ah yellow tape only because i was I was still technically based in Cologne. I had moved back. I was living in the United States.
Cory: ah You know, was still technically a 757 captain going to train. so there's a lot of that they they had to kind of deal with, but it was very similar. I you I emailed the fleet manager, a 75, and um it was you know very similar, you know we understand. And that person came from another airline too, so they they kind of they kind of understood that.
Cory: um you know There's a lot of rumors going around. i think early on when there was some people resigning, um there was a little animosity from some of the fleet managers. I think they've kind of, you know that they yeah that that doesn't go on anymore. i think that they're kind of,
Cory: being being quite a bit more gracious with it, um which is good. but But my experience was, um it was a good one.
Aaron Hagan: Yeah, that's not that's not a conversation anybody wants to have. i don't think anybody skips into work going, man, I can't wait to wait to quit this job that I put my heart and soul to get that I dreamed would be something, you know, it's there.
Cory: No.
Aaron Hagan: There's a lot of emotional baggage that goes with that, you know.
Cory: Oh, 100%. Yeah, it's, it I mean, the the weight of your finger pressing send on an email isn't something to be taken lightly. um You know, and when in the grand scheme of things, it's like we're talking about leaving jobs that, you know just in in the general sense are are amazing jobs, amazing careers, and you're willingly giving it up. I mean, and you're taking risk to go somewhere else. I mean, it's, you know, it's it's it's not an easy thing to do.
Aaron Hagan: um ah Tell me about your second interview. Tell me about the reception when he came back to the wickets at United.
Cory: So was, uh, it was pretty much the same, same interview process. Um, there's a, there's a pilot, a line pilot or a retired pilot and an HR person. And, you know, the, the, I didn't do any interview prep.
Cory: I was like, you know, if if I want to do this, they're going to get, you know, they're going to get me and that's it. Um, and I'd gone through, you know, four or five interviews over the years. I was like, I think I, you know, I can get through the star method or the SAR method of an answer.
Cory: But you know the one that I practiced over and over again and I was ready for was, okay, well, you left once, you quit, and why do you want to come back? And ah the line pilot, that was the first question.
Cory: It wasn't a direct question. it we we kind of got through it ah via our introductions. But I was ready for it. I you know i owned it. i was honest.
Cory: um And yeah he kind of shook his head. He's like, okay. Um, and obviously the HR person was very HRE, as they should be.
Cory: But, um, I, I mean, the interview was pleasant. It wasn't, uh, it wasn't hostile. It wasn't, uh, confrontational at all. Um, again, very gracious. I think they were, they were more delighted with the fact that I, I was, I was hoping to come back after having left.
Aaron Hagan: Well, I know somebody that that went through ups and FedEx and then returned.
Cory: Um,
Aaron Hagan: It was a little bit of a bumpy road. But I always said, you know, when that person shows back up, they know that guy's going to sit in the back of the class, not have a word to say about anything except glad to be here, you know, be completely humble, oh you know, and and have a great attitude at work.
Cory: yeah
Aaron Hagan: You've you've
Cory: yeah
Aaron Hagan: You know, you found out maybe the grass isn't always greener and you don't want to have to go through this trauma again. At the same time, ah you didn't rip the bandaid off and start over for no reason. How's it working out?
Aaron Hagan: How's it working out economically? How's it working out on your schedule? How'd you weather the initial pay cut?
Cory: Sure. So, uh, so I, you I went back, I was, uh, so I moved back from Cologne. I had, I had lived in Austin, uh, Texas previously. So I moved back there. so was commuting to Houston, which is about a two and a half hour drive.
Cory: Uh, so about half the time I drove half the time I flew. uh, ironically enough, I, I flew United uh, that was my airline of choice at FedEx. I had a lot of miles.
Cory: So I, I would buy tickets, uh, on, on United to Houston sometimes or drive. Um, So that part wasn't terrible. And again, i got I got hired in a pretty good time where there are a lot of new hires going to Houston. So I was able to to get a line relatively quickly. I think I was on reserve for a few months.
Cory: I played that game and then held a ah pretty good commutable line, ah three or four day trips. The pay cut, again, you know that the i guess the part of that puzzle that made it palatable was I came out of the left seat at FedEx so was you know and I was living in Cologne with a housing allowance so financially i was uh I was up uh so i was able to weather that storm with some padding um and again I knew it was going to be a year i could get through it just be a little more frugal but uh a year passed and I had a bid and uh
Cory: I went to training for 737 Captain. That's where I'm now currently in San Francisco. I've since left Austin and i'm I'm just south of LAX in Long Beach where I grew up.
Cory: So I've been commuting up there. I'm on reserve right now. um The reserve rules are a little different than FedEx. Everybody starts out at long as a long call and it's 18 hours. ah You can proffer or aggressively pick up trips that are open for the days that you're on reserve.
Cory: So with a little bit of that and and playing the long call game, I really only work about half the reserve days. ah They can convert you to short call up to six times a month. And when they do that, honestly, I fly up. I can pick the short call where I can fly up in that morning.
Cory: You sit nine hours and I turn around and fly home if they don't use me. So it hasn't been that bad. um You know, I could see a FedEx person that's, you know, that's used to an 11 day trip and then being done the rest of the month might find that a little, you know, a lot of back and forth. But, you know, that's the kind of the nature of the beast with the passenger airlines is you're going to have more coming and going versus one big stretch of ah days of work days to kind of getting back into that routine. And the passenger routine was, you know, a little bit of like, oh, yeah, I got to go back to work. But.
Cory: um I'm kind of getting getting back in the groove of a passenger airline life.
Aaron Hagan: yeah Well, the trip length is a big deal with, uh, um, for a lot of guys, they do like the long blocks of time off and that's nice, but it's also not the perfect fit for guys with, with small kids at home or, and and not everybody's wired to carry a 14 day bag.
Cory: Mm-hmm.
Cory: Yeah.
Cory: Mm-hmm.
Aaron Hagan: I've discovered I'm not, you know, I found when I was on the 11 as an FO that about a week, eight days, it's pretty well.
Cory: Right.
Cory: Mm-hmm.
Aaron Hagan: And, uh, even now I'd much rather have two departures, um, In Oakland, one of the things I've done sometimes, I'll get two-departure line, and I'll trade one block of somebody's R-days for one of the two trips.
Aaron Hagan: I like to go once, and then I go over to NorCal and kind of hang out and hope phone doesn't ring and do stuff I enjoy doing over there.
Cory: Yeah. Right.
Aaron Hagan: um
Cory: right
Aaron Hagan: The flexibility is nice, but yeah. Some people take week on week off as the holy grail. Some people like really long departures. you know I always say that there's as as many answers for as many pilots as there are in the company and and what works.
Cory: Right. And you've always said that. You said there's something at FedEx for everybody, and that's true. And, you know, I will caution people that are considering, you know leaving for a passenger airline, especially if they're going to commute to a passenger airline.
Cory: I mean, the the the bread and butter of our schedules is three and four days on and, you know, three to six days off Whereas FedEx, I mean, there's there is, you know, one-day trip and a 15-day trip and everything in between, deadheads and long layovers and short layovers and day and, well, a little ah little less day now.
Cory: But in night flying, long haul international, um I mean, there is quite a bit more variety at FedEx that I've found.
Aaron Hagan: lot
Aaron Hagan: One of the things that has changed significantly since you've left FedEx, and I didn't realize how much of an impact it was gonna have, is the lack of day flying on commuting.
Aaron Hagan: I expected that to be, you know, create some stress, but recently I had, I actually had to go back for my first recurrent landing sim ever.
Cory: Mm-hmm.
Aaron Hagan: I had vacation stacked up for three straight months for a bunch of family events, including a daughter's wedding. So I don't normally do that. Management was very gracious.
Aaron Hagan: You know, they didn't think I was gaming the system or anything and set me up with a with a sim. And I thought, hey, I'm just going to double check and see if I can just jump seat in if that might be easier.
Cory: Yeah.
Aaron Hagan: And that's two weeks out. And the Salt Lake flight where commute in from is full. And there's one, there used to be two, sometimes four.
Cory: Wow.
Cory: Two.
Aaron Hagan: ah And I'm like, ooh, yeah. And I've had some friends living in Florida say it has gotten to be very, very sporty. So one of the big things that people have always been attracted to about FedEx is, oh, it's an easy commute.
Cory: Mm-hmm.
Aaron Hagan: Well, for my 23 years, it's largely been an easy commute. and I don't think it's an easy commute anymore. I think in certain markets, maybe it's easier, but it's something that you need to consider.
Aaron Hagan: And
Cory: Yeah.
Aaron Hagan: um what about ah you go to work? what what Tell me about, you know, the atmosphere at work. um how do you How do you feel, you know, wearing the United uniform, talking to United pilots?
Aaron Hagan: you've You've got a very unique perspective of having a top tier airlines that people would just die to be part of.
Cory: yeah
Aaron Hagan: Tell me what you notice as the as the difference.
Cory: Yeah.
Cory: It's interesting. So the first time at United, they were
Cory: really in kind of the the meat and potatoes of that merger. And there were still a lot of United ah culture and a lot of continental culture. And largely, a lot of that was clashing.
Cory: um they were They were trailing significantly behind Delta. A lot of people were unhappy. um There were still people furloughed by their choice ah that had bypass recall.
Cory: um So my first time at United, it was ah it was different because also one, I was living in Atlanta and all my friends were Delta pilots. Um, so I got to see that, that part of it.
Cory: And then I would commute up to Newark and see the United part of it. Uh, which, you know, put two and two together, you know, a year later I was at FedEx. Um, I was proud to wear that uniform, uh, for FedEx. I thought that we were, we're doing a ah a good service and we're delivering a great product and we were there to, you know, to continue Fred's legacy, you know, and over the years I, you know, I try to say true to that.
Cory: um
Aaron Hagan: so Excuse me.
Cory: And Aaron, I think you're, did your camera go off?
Aaron Hagan: Yeah.
Aaron Hagan: yeah
Cory: Okay. um I tried to say true to that, you know, and of course this is, is ah you know, you start getting to contract negotiations, they get a little heated, and you know, people that you were, ah you know, used to be friendly with, you know, you start to argue with a little bit more about certain things, and then base closures and then downgrades. So it it makes you a little, you know, ah less proud.
Cory: And then to see things the way they go as far as the product and, and the service and, it's It feels like a bit of a bummer sometimes. um So then fast forward at United, you know I was seven years removed almost.
Cory: They got a lot of those synergies from the merger now are are kind of running on all cylinders. Scott Kirby is, I feel like, is ah is a ah really good leader. He's really smart. He has a really good plan for the company.
Cory: They've got their foot on the pedal. um And it's it's really cool to see the airline go everywhere in the world. Like it's a global airline. You know, it almost as if it, you know, it's the passenger version of what FedEx, you know, was when I was there.
Cory: um So it's it's really exciting to be part of it. Everybody's excited. You know, minus the flight attendants, everybody's got new contract. Company's making money. um So, you know, I'm happy. i'm I'm excited. I'm, you know, I've always...
Cory: I've always been really, um ah I've always romanticized this job. I love this job. I still get excited to go to work and that that that little flame is kind of back.
Cory: I enjoy it. um Even, you know, even on the red eyes.
Aaron Hagan: Well, chris Chris and I talked about that. um You know, there's there is a ah common thread at FedEx. I'm going to say, well, you don't have to deal passengers. You don't have to deal flight attendants as if that's a badge of honor.
Aaron Hagan: And look, I've been on a crew van early the morning with some chatty flight attendants and rolled my eyes a little bit.
Cory: Yeah.
Aaron Hagan: I think we've all been there. So sure.
Cory: Yeah.
Aaron Hagan: And you see stuff on the news, stupid things that people do in airports or on airplanes, and that's annoying. But I say there's so much more good than bad. I know for me, you know, I deadhead a lot.
Aaron Hagan: So I'm in airports lot. My wife went middle-aged crazy, went back to become a regional flight attendant.
Cory: yeah
Aaron Hagan: ah So, you know, I've got a daughter that's at a legacy airline. So it is a family business with us. And I'm like you, I romanticize it.
Cory: yeah
Aaron Hagan: I look in airports and I know that there's there's always a sad story where somebody's going to see somebody who's ill or dying or um having to do a somber trip. but But generally airports are places of joy, right?
Cory: Yeah.
Aaron Hagan: And one of my favorite things is, you know, as as you walk back into Salt Lake Airport, you have all these kids returning from their LDS mission trips or whatever, and families are just stacked up and there's hugs and flowers and kisses and candy and and just just energy when you walk in.
Aaron Hagan: and you know, I think if you don't have a little romance for this job, you better find some because it's going it's going to grind you up some, spit you out some days if you, if you don't have a little real affection for it.
Cory: yeah
Cory: yeah
Aaron Hagan: And I think that's one of the things that I've always enjoyed about it is, is the energy of, of rolling in somewhere new.
Cory: Oh,
Aaron Hagan: You were Cologne based or Paris based. So, you know, flying into Paris and seeing the Eiffel tower at the top the hour doing its strobe light rotation is, is just a magic thing.
Aaron Hagan: I,
Cory: oh yeah.
Aaron Hagan: yeah can't really share that with anybody who hasn't experienced it.
Cory: Yeah, it's it's wonderful. and you know and and You know, and I'll be honest, one of the things that I struggled with at FedEx was landing somewhere and in the middle of the night and walking right off the airplane, right into a car. It's easy. And that's what you want to do at 5 a.m. when you've been up all night is to get right in the car to go to the hotel. But, you know, a lot of times I was like, wow it's kind of lonely.
Aaron Hagan: No.
Cory: But, you know, it is what it is. It's the nature of the business. and And, you know, now I find myself at, you know, three in the afternoon walking through a terminal and And just, you know, you youre interacting with people and being around other humans, um it it makes the job, don't want say easier, but it makes the days go by faster.
Cory: It makes the trip go by faster when you have people to talk to.
Aaron Hagan: Thank you.
Cory: and And by and large, you know, I feel like a lot of the things that you would see on the news, especially during COVID or, you know, just the fights and this stuff on the news, like a lot of it was just, it was it was propped up. It was sensationalized. I don't see that. And,
Cory: you know Especially with the flight attendants, they're there just to do their job as well. And it's nice to you know it's nice to say, hey, I'm going to step off the airplane while we're boarding. Do you want a coffee? I'll glad to'll go get you coffee. And you know and they're they perk up and they're great grateful for it.
Cory: Same with ah the first officers that I've flown with or some of the captains that I had that that that did the same thing. it's It's nice to do good things to other people um you know because it makes their day.
Aaron Hagan: you know, this is not bashing my company. ah This is just an observation. You could be a weird antisocial person and have a very successful career at FedEx. You will not be forced other than with another crew member and recurrent training to really interact with a whole lot of people other than the occasional gate agent, van driver, hotel clerk.
Cory: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Cory: no
Aaron Hagan: um And you know what? Some people appreciate that installation and that's great. uh part there were many reasons that i ah suggested my daughter look harder at the legacies uh and i think most of it was her own decision but she like you you alluded to is one of those people that gets a lot of energy from sticking the wings on the little girl or you know greeting the pastors or doing those things and uh you know, like I said, if you don't have a little romance, you're probably in the wrong, wrong side, wrong, wrong industry.
Cory: Right.
Aaron Hagan: So ah did anything surprise you coming back?
Cory: right
Aaron Hagan: Did anything catch you off guard when you were going through training? You'd already been a captain. You'd, you'd been at this company. um Was there anything that, that you go, Ooh, I hadn't anticipated that or ah that was unexpected.
Cory: No, I mean, largely, I mean, everything was kind of how I left it. I was still in the non-rev system and and people that I added as as ah travel travel friends and buddy passes were still there. And a lot of my information was still there.
Cory: ah The bidding was the same. You know, I will say there was there was two two aspects, primarily scheduling that was... not really a shock because I knew, i knew what, I knew what it was, but I think I'd gotten used to FedEx was the vacation and the, the kind of the scheduling flexibility.
Cory: Um, and I, I caution people that are considering other airlines, um, that are, you know, that take, uh, all of their vacation and, and drop all of their trips and trade things around at FedEx.
Cory: It's not really like that at United, uh, your vacation, is seven days. You get, you know, you get, well, you get up to five weeks, but that's later on in your career, get two up until five years, but it's seven days. And right now they're just a hair under four hours a day, whereas FedEx was six hours a day.
Cory: So you could do a lot with a week of vacation at FedEx. And I got used to that. i you know, my vacation months at FedEx were months off for the most part. Um, and you could get summer vacation. You could get a week of vacation right before peak.
Cory: Um, you know, your, you know, i your vacation was useful, um, and you needed it, uh, United it's, it's, um, you know, you're still going to work on a vacation month. Uh, when you're junior, you're not going to get summer vacation. You might get, you might get the border months. You might get a May or a September like I did, which is fine. you know, I, I like to, I like to go on vacation and off months anyway, because it's easier to non-rev.
Cory: Um, But, the vacation is is awesome at FedEx, and people get used to it. And and coming back, I was like, okay, I'm going have to get used to vacation. That's kind of just vacation.
Cory: And then the other one is is ah moving trips around. At FedEx, I was able to drop ah week-long trips, just purely drop them. or trade around or, ah you know, ah pick up a drop a trip from the first to the fifth and pick up a trip on the 10th through the 15th.
Cory: but United, i mean, in theory, that's a possibility. But but in practicality, you know, you you can drop a four day trip and pick up but if another four day trip over the same days.
Cory: um If you're senior, you can, you might be able to drop a turn, but that's, you have to be able to hold turns. So, you know, that that's kind of the trade-off, right? It's like you get to live in base, but you're kind of going to fly the schedule that you get.
Cory: so you got you got weigh the options, right? It's like, you know, I was dropping and moving stuff around at FedEx, but that was because I was commuter and I was trying to make my life easier. Whereas United, it's like, I can go fly what I want, but I'm getting in the car and just going to work. So it's kind of a, it's kind of a trade-off, but.
Aaron Hagan: what's been the What's been the biggest upside now that you're back? What have you enjoyed the most?
Cory: Oh, wow. ah Flying airplanes in the daytime, feeling good. and I tell that to guys I fly with all the time. I was like, you guys take this for granted. Flying around at 2 o'clock in the afternoon after having slept nine hours in the middle of the night, got up, went for a nice workout, had a good healthy breakfast, got in the airplane and went flying.
Cory: um you know I love flying the 7-5. I love flying the 777 at FedEx. But what i hated was looking down at the box and seeing 2,000 miles or 1,500 miles to go. And I was so tired and all I wanted to do was put my head down and close my eyes.
Cory: and i mean And I got so used to that feeling. I hated being tired in the airplane. And now, I mean, flying around, you're flying airplanes in the daytime and you feel good.
Cory: And like ah you know like I said earlier, it's like I love this job and I love flying airplanes. And now I'm you know i'm finally feeling good flying airplanes again. And, and you know, it's – yeah, I mean, I just – I tell people that all the time. I'm like, wow, this is great.
Cory: –
Aaron Hagan: Yeah. Yeah. ah
Cory: so
Aaron Hagan: A few of the sequences that we've got out in Asia, of them that we're losing is a Taipei. I'm sorry, Penang, Taipei, about a four and a half hour flight the middle of the afternoon. And i often comment them on that.
Cory: Yeah.
Aaron Hagan: Oh yeah. I've forgotten how, how pleasant it is to fly when you don't feel like hammered crap, know, just like looking out the window, soaking it all in conversations, not sleepy.
Cory: yeah
Cory: Yeah.
Aaron Hagan: Yeah. Uh,
Cory: And I mean, you know, and it's like it wasn't all nighttime at FedEx. Like my for the most part, all my flying in Cologne was night. largely the triple seven was a night or day, but depending on how your body clock, but there was a time where I was flying daytime hub turns on seven, five, and that was great too.
Cory: And that was easy. Um, it was very similar to the passenger flying, you know fairly short overnight daytime flying, but yeah, it, you know, it's a, it's a significant difference though.
Aaron Hagan: i did ah I did a good bit of that flying on the 7-2 in the right seat and the back seat, and then on the domestic side on the MD-11 for years. And i I'm like you. i I enjoyed that tremendously, and most of it's gone.
Cory: Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron Hagan: there're still
Cory: Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron Hagan: But you know that's that's one of the things for people on the fence, ah and maybe you know maybe the new... Orange, this non-premium stuff will, they can backfill and use the airplanes like we did with the postal contract.
Cory: right
Aaron Hagan: I don't know. But people that want to stay better be prepared for um ah career that really looks like the pre-postal FedEx when it was, you know, about 80% night or so.
Cory: no
Cory: yeah
Aaron Hagan: Well, what advice would you give to anybody considering leaving, having done it? And what advice would you give to people that might want to stay?
Cory: The people leaving, i would say, you know, talk to people, but talk to people that you trust. Talk to people that that you're close to, but don't talk to too many because you're going to get, you know, for 10 people that you talk to, you're going to get 10 different opinions.
Cory: And like we all know, you know, every pilot thinks, you know, they're the smartest person in the room, right? And that their opinion is going to be above everybody else's. And I think, you know, it's like, you know, seek advice, um seek, you know, seek people's experiences.
Cory: But at the end of the day, if you're looking to leave, you need to, you need to know it here and here, obviously, but you need to know here too. If your heart's not in it, ah you know, i think you'll be disappointed. You'll be just bouncing around from one airline to the next, just trying to find something that just satisfies you for a little bit.
Cory: I think you, you know,
Cory: You got to do it for yourself and you got to do it for the right reasons. um You know, obviously, don't don't don't change the quick buck or the quick upgrade. But if if you truly you know, if you truly want to fly around in the daytime and drive to work, I think that's extremely valid.
Cory: um I tell people that are at FedEx right now that are commuting, don't leave and go to an airline, a passenger airline and commute to it long term. You know, I left, I commute, yes, but I know that sometime in the near future, I will drive to work and I'll spend the rest of my career driving to work.
Cory: But if, you know, if I choose to, but if you're going to commute to a passenger line forever, I don't think it's a, it's a worthwhile ah endeavor. And that's just one reason. I mean, everybody can have their own reason, but I say you you got to do it for for your reasons and for, you know, for what you think is the right reason.
Cory: For people that are staying, um turn off the noise. And that's one thing that that I allowed to get to me. And I'm sure people watching this this podcast will probably remember my name and the things that things that I was saying and in in arguments I was having on Jet Flyers.
Cory: But, you know, turn off the noise um because it's it's not good. It's not healthy. um i You know, I let it kind of ah take over my last few months in Cologne and I let it kind of ruin that time there. um You know, because...
Cory: You know all these airlines are going to have their ups and downs. you know, obviously FedEx isn't a down one, but I don't think it's going to be down forever. I mean, it's it's FedEx. They're going to figure it out at some point. The flying may not look like what it did in 2018 or 19, but I don't think the airline's going anywhere.
Cory: It may contract a little bit, but if you're going to stay, I mean, just turn off the noise, go to work, do your job, and and make the best of it. Yeah, yeah and don't don't get caught up in the minutia it all.
Aaron Hagan: Yeah. Oh, that's all great advice. I'll offer what I did on the other podcast, too. You've said limit the opinions you get. You know, I tell people if you listen to Corey tell you about how he likes United, it don't go because Corey thinks it's the greatest place ever or he thinks this place sucks. You know, get away from there.
Aaron Hagan: Ask him, what is your life like? Tell me about your monthly bid. How do you get to work?
Cory: All right.
Aaron Hagan: How often do you drive? How's commuting work? How's reserve work? Because two people can be given the same set of variables and one person will go, oh, that sounds terrible. That would stress me out. That would be awful.
Aaron Hagan: And another person would go, oh I can do that. That's actually preferable to what I've got. um Commuting is one for me. I commuted for 13 years from the Florida Gulf Coast um to FedEx, which wasn't always an easy commute.
Aaron Hagan: um And it got to the point where I would just go through corporate travel and buy a ticket from Panama City after we lost our direct pinnacle flight.
Cory: Mm-hmm.
Aaron Hagan: You'd go through Atlanta and then to ah Memphis. And so that would have stressed a lot of people. i like It was $230, $240 ticket.
Aaron Hagan: I just went, you know what? I'm not going to stress about going to work like you did with the freaking flyer miles. I'm gonna log to freaking flyer miles. I'll share those with the family. I'll take this off one of the trips that I'm picking up And in my and my world, I go, if I don't hate going to work, if I don't cringe every time I go, up if it's pleasant, I'll be more productive. I'll go more.
Aaron Hagan: I'll earn more money if I take care of the equipment on the way. um
Cory: Yeah.
Aaron Hagan: I'm not saying that my commuting strategy is the ultimate commuting strategy. That's not what I'm saying at all. What I am saying is when somebody says, oh, commuting sucks, or you don't want to do that, or fill in the blank, I go, look at what they get. What can you make of it and make it make your own decision?
Cory: Absolutely.
Aaron Hagan: Well, man, you've you've offered a lot of really ah good perspective on this, and I thought it was very balanced. I appreciate this. We'll try to get this out to ah the crew force that that's interested and share this with a few people.
Aaron Hagan: um Again, that was very generous of your time and your perspective. I can't thank you enough, and I wish you the very best in this next career.
Cory: Hey, glad to do it Aaron. Thanks so much. Appreciate it.
