Transcript
Aaron Hagan: Hello and welcome to our next podcast. On this one, we're going to talk a little about the TSA, a specialized training module that we've developed with these two experts to help people get ready for United Airlines.
Aaron Hagan: So Luke, why don't I turn it over to you? I'll start with you. Introduce yourself and tell us a little about how this works.
Luke Jacobs: Good afternoon, Aaron. Thank you for this opportunity. My name is Luke Jacobs, retired Marine, her pilot, retired in 2020, did a year with Atlas during COVID. And now ah with my friend Wilson here, we're both at United Captains and Instructors on the 737.
Luke Jacobs: Been with Emerald Coast for almost three full years now. And we came up with this product, the the TSA, the Technical Skills Assessment, training based off of some information that we've gathered over the last few years doing top-offs.
Luke Jacobs: United really focuses on a third of their interview on the technical portion, meaning how to read charts, how to you know do some mental math on descending, fuel kind conservation, consumption, and really some scenarios CRM like a lot of the other legacies do.
Luke Jacobs: And what Wilson and I have done is we've We offer a light version, which is what you pay for as part of your membership here at Emerald Coast. But for those who kind of struggle or don't get it or need more help, which is totally fine. I was one of those guys back in the day. Being a Marine is really hard.
Luke Jacobs: And this offers a lot of homework and a lot of opportunities to practice on your own time and professional. An email where you can reach out to us, ask questions and we get back to you. So it's really like having a private trainer guide you through the process. And that's what that is, because, you know, the technical portion is at least one third of your point systems for the interview. And we just thought it'd be great to you know give some specialized training to those people that kind of want more and or or need more.
Aaron Hagan: Okay. Wilson, what do you got to add to that?
Luke Jacobs: Well, hey, good afternoon, everyone. Excited to be here. My name is Wilson McManus. I've been on the Emerald Coast about two years now. Navy reservist. I was full-time Navy for about 12 years or so. My last active duty tour with the Navy was flying 737s and One of the challenges that I saw coming into United, which I was fortunate to join in 2021, was that I knew how to fly the 737, but I didn't really understand the airline way of flying the 737.
Luke Jacobs: So for me, turning over from the military to the Part 121 style of flying was a bit of a jump. I had to, you know, thankfully had good background in the plane and the systems and that kind of knowledge, but learning how united had wanted me to do things how they wanted me to kind of tailor my briefings and tailor you know the products that they were going to use and how to employ those uh was definitely very different than what i've been doing in the military and so kind of you know looking around at the different resources that the airline has and things of that nature it's organized much differently than it would be in the military and so
Luke Jacobs: We saw a need for this you know initially in kind of a a lighter, smaller version for folks who are already maybe flying 121 or have things dialed in. And if you're a current 121 captain right now, you may not need our expanded product, but the expanded product that we built is going to really, really good leg to stand on and very confidently go in and ace the TSA. and have a great great event on that half of it, which United will sometimes use as a tiebreaker or they will do different things on the kind of the end of the interview where if they're not confident in your skills and ability and they're not confident specifically in your CRM, then that's that's a no typically across the board for them between both the ah HR representative and the pilot in the room. so Anyway, that's kind of some of the reasoning behind we did what we did. And that's a little bit about my background and why I wanted to help develop this course with Luke and and yourself.
Aaron Hagan: Well, you know, I found years ago, every once in a while, you'll get somebody who you'd think they'd be really up on JEPs or whatever, but coming out of the military, we used different approach plates.
Aaron Hagan: um I think we all run the risk to you get into kind of a groove, you get a little bit stale and and you know the information you need at hand to do your job safely and you even know where you go to dig it.
Aaron Hagan: But if somebody sat down and said, okay, let's do the equivalent of an FAA oral right now, you might be a little daunted. Now, you guys have an interesting perspective because you're both simulator instructors there at the United Training Center.
Aaron Hagan: What have you seen? Let's talk past interview for a minute. ah Do you think this program would actually help the guys who you've seen come into the program that maybe struggle a little bit from the get-go?
Aaron Hagan: have Have there been people that have had problems with um general knowledge, CRM, or other things?
Luke Jacobs: Yeah.
Aaron Hagan: I mean, is there is there a reason, basically, that they decided to bring this in and to ah carry this into the interview process? Because this is a fairly newer process at United.
Aaron Hagan: it It's evolved.
Luke Jacobs: It is. It is evolved, Aaron. You know they started doing this about two plus years ago, ah maybe three. And I think being similar structures really kind of gives us a little of insight on this.
Luke Jacobs: People struggle. This will help you just once you get your foot in the door to United, too, because we are talking the United language. How do we brief? How do we... view a problem like a departure brief out of Los Angeles, you know, with poor weather, you know, complex SID, turbulence in route.
Luke Jacobs: And so we're giving you a really good look behind the curtain on how we talk, how we adjust our briefs, because everyone does it differently, right? My experience at Atlas flying the 777, our briefs were a lot different, right?
Luke Jacobs: there's There's only really two or three ways to brief a plate, but there's words that we want to use at United that catches our ears, like threats, personal, environmental and technical. and We go really into depth on what does that mean? Like how to get the the interviewer's attention that this guy knows what he's talking about. and And you're already speaking our language before you've become part of our tribe.
Luke Jacobs: Yeah, that's the thing is we want you to start to speak the United language, maybe without you even knowing it. And then the interviewers even immediately pick up on that and recognize. So concepts like flight past first or the cuss words, right? Hey, I'm concerned. I'm uncomfortable. I'm unsafe. Some of those things are actually codified in our flight operations manual at United.
Luke Jacobs: But that being said, if you start to drop some of those little tidbits in the interview throughout either your HR or your TSA, you're going to be in really, really good shape because they're going be like, hey, this guy's already up on some of the things they've already studied and talked to and and been mentored by people who are currently at United.
Aaron Hagan: Thank you.
Luke Jacobs: So I think that's only going to benefit you, not only for the interview process, but as you go through basic MDoc and training and you kind of build on our building block approach along the way as you work towards your qualification, your initial aircraft.
Aaron Hagan: Well, let's talk a little about the origin of the expanded TSA. For years, even before you guys joined, as technical elements started to infiltrate the United process, it's a much more rigorous process now, I think, than it was a few years ago.
Aaron Hagan: um A couple of our instructors kind of took it upon themselves. What started as spending a little time in top offs became, hey, maybe we want to do a little group training. And that's ah that grew and expanded. And then you guys came in and expanded even further and did a great job.
Aaron Hagan: um I want to make clear, we're not shaking guys down for their milk money here. you know and And not everybody needs this product. At the same time, years ago, we used to sell simulator prep time for FedEx and Cafe Pacific and a few other airlines.
Aaron Hagan: And it came not because I decided I was suddenly going to be a sim mogul. It came because clients were coming to me going, I need help, do you know where I can get this? And the ability to buy SIM time in bulk to be able to actually have credibility with the SIM companies and say, look, I've got a pipeline of a lot of people, can we set up something here worked out to be extremely beneficial for a lot of folks.
Aaron Hagan: What was the catalyst or or where did you look around and go, maybe some of these folks need a little bit extra time or people need a little more extra attention. Where did that come from?
Luke Jacobs: Well, so, you know we, Wilson and I started getting our toes dipped into the tsi TSA product. And what i noticed was, The vast majority of people, our clients, really understood the material, right? With that part 121 background and being able to kind of capture quickly, you know, because it's a two hour class where it's lecture for 45 minutes and then about an hour and 15 minutes of of rapid fire style where everyone kind of gets a chance to brief something and then 15 minutes for questions.
Luke Jacobs: I started thinking about my experience getting out of the Marine Corps and entering this world, like this black hole where I didn't really understand what I was getting myself into. And then when I did get a job, it was really hard for me to prep and attend some of these classes. And I always wanted Something where I could go online and when I was in Korea or in you know Alaska at 2 o'clock in the morning, wide awake because I couldn't sleep, I wanted to practice. And so not everyone's on my timeline. So Wilson and I sat down over a couple of adult beverages were like, what if we make this where people have homework and show them what a release looks like and what what is a release, right? Like if I say a release to a Harrier guy, he's like, is that when I release the breaks? Like, I don't i don't know.
Luke Jacobs: And so we we were like, there's there's a pocket of this community that just doesn't understand. um And I don't think it's well understood outside of people who are in 121, SkyWest people, you know, Endeavor, they get a lot of great training. And so I just, we just thought, hey, why don't we make a product that's, that can really answer questions at two o'clock in the morning, give them some homework problems, give them some practice charts and practice releases and and math, and they can do it on their own. And then then if they have a question,
Luke Jacobs: they can email us. So really it was I just put myself back in my shoes. I'm going, man, I wish I had this.
Aaron Hagan: Well, it's funny, when we started the simulators, my target audience was dumb fighter guys like me who'd never flown a transport category airplane um just to get the feel of something very different.
Luke Jacobs: I items
Aaron Hagan: What shocked me was very quickly, I realized it wasn't just me that was out there looking for this. I found guys coming out of the regional airlines saying, hey, look, I've been flying a glass CRJ.
Aaron Hagan: This is a round dial simulator. I need to work on my scan. I need back to the basics. Oh, by the way, this airplane carries more gas than my airplane weighs. It flies or feels different.
Luke Jacobs: Yeah. yeah
Aaron Hagan: so What I thought, some and ah and you'll find this sometimes, you create a product or you create something you for one niche and you find out, well, actually it's got more utility. So tell me about the clients that have signed up.
Aaron Hagan: What have you Who do you have a typical client and and tell me what you've learned from some of your clients as you've taken them through this process?
Luke Jacobs: Absolutely. I think our clients have been across the board. We've seen folks from both the civilian side do very well with this as well as the military. I think it's maybe been a touch military heavy and maybe that's because we both have a military background. But that being said, i think it's very, very beneficial for for variety of types of people and that's what we really wanted to do.
Luke Jacobs: gear it towards um it could be hey you're a 135 net guy or something like that you're on a trip and hey you want to have bits and pieces of this at any time of the day on your trip you know when you're not on call something like that and that's where this is really beneficial is you can dive into that and you can start to learn to speak a 121 language just through this course alone just in the very basics that you're going to need to to know both in the interview and then you can start to carry those forward hopefully once you get hired at United.
Luke Jacobs: But then as well for the military folks in general, like i said, I was a 737 guy. I flew in ah a fairly traditional transport role from you know either FBO to military base, FBO to FBO, whatever it was.
Luke Jacobs: And even still coming to United, there were challenges in terms of learning Again, responsibilities of different roles at United and where things come from, where products come from, how briefings are going to work and how they want them to look and sound.
Luke Jacobs: And so that's what we tried to do is put this product out so that you can already have a little bit of a leg up both in the interview and and then again, once you actually get here. that's And that's what it's creating. The feedback has been extremely confident from all of our clients coming off. Every single client we've had who said, who signed up for it and said, hey, I feel way more confident going into the interview, having done and gone through this and done some of the homework.
Luke Jacobs: One of the things that Luke didn't mention either, but we also offer the opportunity not just to ask your email us questions, but actually sit down with you face to face and kind of a fireside chat just like this and quiz you a little bit, too. So we're happy to answer questions for a second and then maybe throw one of these scenarios at you live, just like we're talking right now.
Luke Jacobs: Yeah, and you know, it's interesting. A lot of our clients are are customers of different interview prep services that have found this and like, no one else has this. It's unique, not only in the material that we're giving you and the perspective that we're talking about, but it's unique in the sense that no one else is doing this.
Luke Jacobs: So, and we've gotten a lot of great feedback. Like we had a a female captain from a regional go into an interview recently. She emailed me and she's like, no kidding.
Luke Jacobs: The TSA portion was exactly what you were talking about. Very similar scenario. She's like, I felt so comfortable. Like I was doing it at home.
Luke Jacobs: She's like, I hit the ball right out of the park and she got the CGL and she was like, Super ecstatic. And she wasn't even part of the Emerald Coast family. She was from outside the family. And she thought the product was so worth the money because it just it answers a lot of the unknowns.
Aaron Hagan: Well, you guys bring a lot of credibility in there. You're both military instructor pilots. So you speak the language from those guys. You both work in a training department, a 121 carrier. So you speak fluent airline. So I know that our our regional folks don't have a ah learning barrier when they come in there, if they want that extra help. Sounds like that was the case with her.
Aaron Hagan: um For the benefit of everybody, can you kind of talk me through what the basic TSA does, what you're going to cover, and then tell me what the expanded TSA does and and how and what the students can actually expect a little bit.
Luke Jacobs: Yeah, I'll start with the light. um So the light part is part of your Emerald Coast membership. We go, we we try to do it weekly. Wilson and I, or I host one via video. And it's, like I said earlier, it's it's it's ah it's the wave tops, right?
Luke Jacobs: um So we do about a 40 minute discussion on the United product that they give you, the pilot prep material, which is about eight pages. they It's how we define it. United CRM. It's the product that you get when you get an interview date. The company literally sends that to you.
Luke Jacobs: So we talk about that. I really focus on like, what does it mean when we say CRM or what are we looking for when we say non-normal? And how does United understand it? Right. So I try to give you a little bit more background to just a bunch of words on the page.
Luke Jacobs: And then we go right into some scenarios. I demo a brief. Not so that ah you try to copy me, but so that when you do practice, you can kind of remember, like compare and contrast.
Luke Jacobs: You know, there's 13 briefing items. I think it's fairly organic. Just if you brief a flight, you know, Aaron, if you and I were going to go jump in an airplane and we were going to go l L.A. to San Francisco, I think we would naturally hit all 13 items. So I demo one.
Luke Jacobs: And then it goes into a rapid fire um kind of setting where everyone gets a chance to either do ah a departure brief, an arrival brief, or a non-normal situation. Like if we're going Los Angeles to D.C., we get a generator failure or a cabin pressurization issue. So we talk about the process. And I really anchor and Wilson anchors on the process.
Luke Jacobs: understanding that you may not get to the right answer for the divert. You know, maybe you go to Albuquerque, maybe you go to Vegas, maybe you go to Phoenix, but United cares most about your process.
Luke Jacobs: And I talk specifically to the fact that, you know, and a lot of 121 guys know this, but we, with Our training is only 45 days. you know It's two weeks of in-doc. and Then it's about 30 days of you know learning how to throw the switches to a line check in the sim. like we're You're in and out of our building incredibly fast.
Luke Jacobs: and so I really talk about like make sure you have what they're looking for is a good process. You may not get the answer they're looking for. It's not about the answer. is Do you have a process to identify a problem or a risk build a team, you know get a collaborative solution, get buy-in, and then execute that plan violently. right and so I talk about that process and I really help people understand and we talk through the process. and Then I love doing public math.
Luke Jacobs: I get people on the hook and we do some descent math. and Some of my Viper clients have not done so well with this. It's almost like a running joke now, but we do some descent math. We do some Fuel computations because United provides 6,000 pounds per hour in the booklet they give. And so I talk about like, what does that mean? Like, how do we figure out gas to our alternate and gas on a divert? And when do we want to land? And we I really kind of talk to them about the basics.
Luke Jacobs: And then, you know, in most of the clients are really good with it, like they walk out the door like, okay, I have a good process. I know how to kind of brief now. And they've hit the highlights. And that's where we kind of fold into the more expanded product.
Luke Jacobs: Absolutely. So I'll talk about the TSA premium product for just a few minutes and some of the differences with the light product. So the two key things I would say that you're paying for with the premium product One word would be context and just extra context and the other one would be extra practice reps and practice opportunities.
Luke Jacobs: So with the context piece of it, we're able to go into much more detail and we basically take our presentation and expand it, put in some some different graphics and slides, things like that to help to conceptualize the concepts that we're talking about. And we basically take this and break it into three almost 60 minute videos a piece that you can watch and or rewatch at various times that meet your schedule.
Luke Jacobs: And so those videos, right, you're going into breaking down the basics of, you know, hey, here's how the TSA looks and feels and how it's going to fit into your interview. Here's how we talk about CRM. And we really can dive into, you know, some of the types and style of question they're going to ask with CRM and how that might come up and how that's specifically going to applied and when within the scenario they give you. And then from there, right, we spend another video just demoing briefs like Luke said. So we show you kind of what the the training department's gold standard is, if you will, for both the departure brief and an arrival brief. And one of the things that we can do an even better job in that scenario is breaking down
Luke Jacobs: which ones are going to be specific to the aircraft that you fly? Because that's one thing a lot of people struggle with is, hey, do I have to memorize every single one of these things exactly like the 737 at United? No, there's only some things that you have to know that's the case. So there's certain things that you can still brief, like, for example, your evacuation procedures, right? I certainly wouldn't expect an F-16 guy to know how to brief a transport aircraft evacuation because they're just going pull the handle and go.
Luke Jacobs: So there's certain things like that that are going to be, we're going to be able to provide a lot more context within how you should brief both for the departures and the arrivals and make you look and feel like, hey, you're at the gate or you're in cruise about to descend down into your destination.
Luke Jacobs: And this is how it should sound. And then the last piece of the the thing that excuse me the TSA premium that we expound on a little bit more is just some of the non-normals and how that would come out in terms of handling non-normals, handling diverts. we Luke mentioned a minute ago the math in public. You don't have to do it in public if you buy our products. Which is pretty cool. So yeah, we show you how we go through all these various different calculation methods. You can go back and rewatch that.
Luke Jacobs: Then we have an FAQ video. So that was another piece that actually spurred us to create this product. So we said, hey, we have a lot of the same questions that are getting asked. at the end of every single light session. Why don't we make an FAQ session that's specific to those questions and really try to clear up the majority of stuff that people have. And we've found that's been tremendously helpful with the clients that have gone through already. Once that's all done with and you've watched that material, then i mentioned the practice opportunities. So we have basically generated scenarios where you have departures, arrivals, the plates that are associated with those. We have a basic sample of like a release essentially like, hey, I'm going from Los Angeles, gate 77 to San Francisco, gate Fox 21.
Luke Jacobs: We've got the weather associated with all that stuff. We've got everything that you would need essentially to be able to practice on your own time at home, given the sample that we've already provided for you. and i think that's one of the really critical things too is people are then finding the time to practice and brief in the style and the the manner that we give them and then we give you an extra rep to come in and practice with us live face to face and ask questions if you still have them either face to face or via email so i think that's really what sets that premium product over the top is just the fact that you have the context you have the practice reps and then if you still have questions we're here for you
Aaron Hagan: Well, I'll go back to parallels of other things that we've done in the business. I mentioned the simulator sales. Those were a big deal. We actually did some United, believe it or not, used to have a simulator evaluation.
Luke Jacobs: Mm-hmm.
Aaron Hagan: We sold some simulator time for that. But the real driving force of Emerald Coast was the DC 10 sim that was at FedEx. And You know, there's reasonable preparation and then there's overkill.
Aaron Hagan: And some people I knew i thought were doing overkill. And I asked one of them, we had a guy who did 12 simulator prep sessions. These were almost $1,000 a pop.
Aaron Hagan: And I said, you know, what's going on? He says, I'm coming off staff. He was a test pilot before that, didn't fly a lot. And I know what it takes for me to feel on the ball and comfortable.
Aaron Hagan: Now, his own personal standard was so high, you know, I thought it was overkill.
Luke Jacobs: Thank you.
Aaron Hagan: I'm like, dude, a sim or two, you're going to be golden. But here's what he said. He said, you know, that may be the case. But he goes, if I know I'm going to rock this and I don't have to worry about it, my confidence is going to carry over into the interview and into the testing and every other phase.
Aaron Hagan: So this is how I eliminate my own self-doubt by over-preparing. That made sense to me. um I actually tried years ago to buy licensing rights to the cognitive screen that for many years Delta used and later FedEx adopted.
Aaron Hagan: And I reached out to the company and they made it very clear to me that It really wouldn't matter if I sold them the test or not because they were so confident in their test. You could take this thing 50 times. It's not going to change your score.
Aaron Hagan: And the point I was making to them is what this simulator customer made to me. I'm not buying your test or trying to buy your test because I want my customers is to get a better cog screen score.
Aaron Hagan: What I want them to do is go to bed at night knowing I know how to do the cog screen. I'm not freaked out about this. And now they are much more receptive to taking the input when I was trying to teach them how to handle the CRM exercise or to do well in their panel interview.
Aaron Hagan: So one of the values that I see is enhanced TSA is if you're the kind of person who has some butterflies or if you go, man, I just want to know I nailed this or I think I might have a weak area. um When you amortize the investment against a multimillion dollar career, it seems kind of small.
Luke Jacobs: Thank you.
Aaron Hagan: I'm always sensitive. ah you know We started the Emerald Coast once a client, always a client, money back guarantee kind of product to basically say, look, we're not here to turn you upside down and shake your pocket change out of you. That's not what we're about.
Aaron Hagan: But every product that we have, the background check, the resumes screening, all the other stuff that we offer, the logbook services, I didn't wake up one night and go, oh, I think I'm going to find something else to sell. These were all things the clients came to us and asked for.
Aaron Hagan: And the TSA was asked for. And as an extension of that, I know you've had a lot of requests for, hey, I could use some extra help. Could I pay you? Would you be willing to? Hey, can I? And that's that's what you guys have...
Aaron Hagan: have basically answered for them. And I think it's a great product. I'm proud of it. I'm proud of you guys. I'll say again, not everybody needs it. If you're a check airman at your airline and you're quizzing first officers on IOE, you probably don't need these guys to teach you how to brief an approach plate or to do some 60 to one math.
Aaron Hagan: If you're a fighter pilot like I was getting drug around the world behind tankers, ah flying descents and stuff basically based on your own, yeah, TLR, that looks about right, or I'm going with a velocity vector says to go.
Luke Jacobs: laughter
Aaron Hagan: It's a little bit it's a little bit tougher in that 7.3, and it's certainly a little bit tougher when there's an interviewer leaning into you, asking you hard questions three feet away. And I think this is a product that puts a lot of those monsters under the bed to sleep. you know This is this is shines a light under that bed and says, hey, there's really nothing to be afraid of.
Aaron Hagan: So if it benefits you, i think it's a great product. um and the And the pledge we have is a pledge we've always had. you know if you If you need it, it's going to be a great product. ever Every instructor on our team cares. They're going to throw their heart and soul. We're not going to let you go in there nervous or shaking. We're not going to look at our watch and say, yep, your time's up.
Aaron Hagan: We're going to take care of you um With that in mind, tell me what's going on at United right now. I mean, you guys are close to the scuttlebutt. Tell me tell me what you've been seeing.
Luke Jacobs: Yeah, I'd be happy to do that. I have the distinct privilege, obviously, of teaching in the simulator facility, and every now and then I have people come through who have their ear very, very close to the ground on hiring stuff.
Luke Jacobs: And so in terms of the things that I've heard lately at United, my understanding is right now, this year, Chicago is seeing about 1,600 employees. Today is February 26, 2026. That could change next week. Who knows? You know, current events, things going on in the world, stuff like that. We never know what's going to happen tomorrow, but we do our best to be ready for it prepared. We do know that we have a lot of pilots retiring. We do know that we have fleet growth coming with um a lot of the maxes have already been delivered, believe it or not, from Renton. The 321s, though, are showing up in droves this year, so the mid-country bases are growing so specifically between Houston, Denver, and Chicago on the 321 fleet. So there's been a lot of Airbus growth that's coming in.
Luke Jacobs: We're getting our first 321XLRs this year. I think that happens in May that we deliver our first one. That's going to start to replace some of the 7.5 flying to smaller markets in Europe and places of that nature.
Luke Jacobs: But one of the things that we've been backlogged on actually for a while has been the 787 fleet, interestingly enough.
Aaron Hagan: Yeah.
Luke Jacobs: That's produced in South Carolina and we 20 aircraft behind right now from where we are supposed to be. the The company is stating at the moment that those aircraft are all slated by Boeing to be delivered this year.
Luke Jacobs: Interestingly enough, 1.787 creates about 10 787 captains. And so what happens is the vacuum that sort of sucks upward from you have these senior captains on the 7.3 fleet or line check pilots, and those guys then bid off to other fleets like the 7.8 to go become captains and do other things. And so that creates kind of the vacuum in the narrow body fleets that they have to replace along with mandatory retirements.
Luke Jacobs: And so that's been a huge factor for us coming in is, Hey, we've got to hire to, to fill some of those gaps in the senior, senior roles in the air body fleets. Additionally,
Luke Jacobs: One of the things that I heard I thought was interesting too is we have four other 787s that are kind of in a question mark status right now. We might get them this year, we might get them in the future. If it looks like Boeing is going to deliver those aircraft, those four aircraft alone this year, that could potentially add to that 1600 year hiring number 500 pilots, creating about 2100 for year.
Luke Jacobs: The other thing that I've heard that I think is interesting too with what's going on with hiring projections is you know United, it was fairly recent. I wasn't fortunate enough to go through where the United Military Pilot Program, the UMPP, was in effect. But we have a lot of those CJOs that are somewhat, i would call them sort of long-term CJOs, right? Where you have six plus months, maybe 12 plus months. months where someone has a CJO and then expects to get out of the military and have a class date. And so we're trying to do everything we possibly can to honor those.
Luke Jacobs: Scott Kirby and our leadership absolutely love that program. It has a 95% success rate across both the interview and completing basic in-doc. So we're trying to get as many of those pilots in as we can. And to do that, we have to honor those CJOs.
Luke Jacobs: And so some of those are actually filling our class dates into 2026 fairly deeply so far. And so that's why you've seen the the interviews kind of turn on and off with the traditional pipeline a little bit. So I do encourage you, if you do get the Hogan, choose an interview date that's as soon as you possibly can, you know, realistically being able to prep with your schedule, get it scheduled, get on the books and and get out to Denver and let's make it happen. We're excited to work with with all the great folks we can and hire as many great people as we can.
Aaron Hagan: Fantastic. Well, any closing thoughts? Anything that's ah got you guys excited about the next a short period of time in front of you here at United?
Luke Jacobs: You know, I think, you know, and this is one of the things I talk about in the top offs, if you choose to use me, is culture. United culture is just so stable, so open. The fight deck environment so awesome. And I think that's really the big differentiator to me between United, Delta, American, you know, Southwest, FedEx, UPS.
Luke Jacobs: So, you know, I really look forward to going to work when I get called or when I get an opportunity scheduled for a sim. And I think that's one thing that really just excites me every day about the company is that the the culture is really strong.
Luke Jacobs: It's really friendly, like truly a friendly. We say that. But like, I really do enjoy going to work. I enjoy flying the airplane and working with the crews because we're all kind of rowing at the same speed. And and and the core four means something to us.
Luke Jacobs: Yeah, it's a lot of fun. It's a really awesome culture. I very much agree with Luke. I mean, if you look around America and if you look around Delta, if you look around cargoes or others, I think that the culture shift that's happening in United is incredibly positive and it really is on a really strong upward trend. And it's an amazing place to be. I'm not going to, you know, fingers crossed it's like that for a really long time. It may not be like that forever. Things obviously ebb and flow, but at the same time, I've really, really enjoyed it.
Luke Jacobs: My personal story to that is I had no idea who Luke was until about 2022 when they invited, United actually invited me to come to an open house in Denver and said, hey, are you interested in being a simulator instructor? And I was. And I started talking to some of the other candidates and recognized that Luke actually lived less than a mile away from me. And so at that point, I've gotten to meet really good people like Luke, work with them.
Luke Jacobs: And same thing. You're twins. Yeah. So that's that is what we're going by based off our operations manager. yeah Anyway, it's been a lot of fun to be a part of both Emerald Coast and United.
Aaron Hagan: Well, you guys are a great you're a great ambassador for both organizations. Certainly on my side, my team, I couldn't be prouder to have you. up you've You've changed a lot of lives, helped a lot of people, instilled a lot of confidence. That makes me proud. And it's fun to go to work, especially if you've been part of something in the military or been in a culture at your regional where you felt like it was actually small enough, you made friends, you had connections.
Aaron Hagan: It's encouraging. A lot of my friends at United say the same thing. very happy there. I'm with an organization with, what are you guys up to, 17,000, 18,000 pilots now.
Luke Jacobs: Actually, we're almost 18 and a half.
Aaron Hagan: It's still – yeah.
Luke Jacobs: yeah was nineteen I think we broke 19 this year. Did we really? Yeah, we're over 19,000 pilots and we're going to be like 45,000 flight
Aaron Hagan: Yeah.
Aaron Hagan: yeah Well, it's easy to get swallowed up by that and think, oh, this is big. But as you guys know, aviation is small town. And our little burbs, you know, the hubs, you you see some of the same people in the same places and familiar faces in all these corners of the world. So that's one of the things that makes us so much fun.
Aaron Hagan: Well, speaking of fun, you guys are a lot of fun. Always enjoy having you on here. We'll wrap this one up for now. But guys, thanks for what you're doing. Thanks for giving us a little more detail and sharing what you've got. And obviously, if you guys have any questions that are listening, reach out to us. We love to talk. So let us know what we can do to help you.
Aaron Hagan: Thanks so much.
Luke Jacobs: Thanks, Aaron. Thanks for having us.
