Episode 8: JJP and Family with Eric Meunier

Transcript

Speaker: Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.

Speaker: We are currently on episode number eight.

Speaker: And with me, my co-captain, as always.

Speaker: I'm Scott Larson.

Speaker: And Scott, we have someone special with us today.

Speaker: I want you to introduce him since you guys connect on a better level than I do.

Speaker: Well, we are blessed with having Eric Minier here, who has been the game designer and project manager at Jersey Jack Pinball, and he's been going on six years.

Speaker: You will know him from his latest release, which was Pirates of the Caribbean.

Speaker: And we'd like to welcome Eric.

Speaker: Eric, how are you doing?

Speaker: Doing great.

Speaker: Thanks, guys.

Speaker: Thanks for having me on the show.

Speaker: For sure.

Speaker: Thanks for saying yes.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker: Thanks for slumming it with the low pinball fruit, not that.

Speaker: Not the highbrow crowd.

Speaker: All pinball is good pinball, guys.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: We just wanted to get Jan asked you some questions.

Speaker: We know that you didn't necessarily do anything with Wonka, but...

Speaker: Whenever we see, at least when I see you, Eric, I see you kind of as the face of JJP.

Speaker: Even at the stream with Buffalo, you're kind of there in your blazer and answering questions as they came on.

Speaker: So we figured you'd be one of the best men to sit down and talk with since everyone else got the spotlight, right?

Speaker: Pat Lawler's already had it and so did Keith or Joe Katz.

Speaker: So, so far, is there anything that you feel like hasn't been covered with Wonka that you'd like to bring to light?

Speaker: Um, this game is definitely, um, a concept from Pat to bring location pinball, um, to get JJP games more in location pinball, um, focusing on, uh, like a three minute game time and focusing on rules that are easy to approach, um, things that carry over from game to game, like the Wonka Vader lock.

Speaker: Um, it really has the appeal of faster games, um,

Speaker: harder games, whereas some of our older games like Waz and Hobbit and Dialed In and even Pirates had longer ball times.

Speaker: So it's one of the things that we've been fine tuning here in the office, you know, tweaking posts and moving things around on the out lanes and at the bottom of the game to make it harder playing game.

Speaker: So Eric, when you're actually approaching a game, there are certainly ways of drawing from the past and implementing things in the future.

Speaker: You're walking that fine line of finding something that's innovative but familiar at the same time.

Speaker: And so what are the things that you saw about Wonka that you thought, this is a great concept that we want to implement it, and this is the new twist that we're bringing to it?

Speaker: The Wonka Vader was a cool thing that made a comeback, right?

Speaker: A carryover ball lock hasn't been used in a while.

Speaker: I'm trying to think of the last game that had a carryover ball lock from player to player that wasn't rapid stealing like Tina Day, where that could happen...

Speaker: Chris Wacker, From ball to ball, but this one is more of a further out goal, where you have to qualify the one computer and then lock it in there, and there's just this concept of.

Speaker: Chris Wacker, I see two balls in the walk of a leader I got to put in my money, so I can play the walk of your multi ball, I really think that was a fun concept to bring back just for, especially for location pinball getting people to.

Speaker: Chris Wacker, Get anxious about having two balls in there and being able to cash it in and have a monster game.

Speaker: Totally.

Speaker: I think there is something to be said about seeing that physical ball lock that makes it so much more attractive than just having one or two balls locked.

Speaker: My first game that I ever bought was Simpsons Pinball Party.

Speaker: And so when I saw the Wonka Vader, I thought that reminds me a lot of the couch.

Speaker: And there is something about seeing the balls just waiting there on the couch that you just want to get out there and lock that in.

Speaker: And I can see that being certainly kind of an advertising things like, hey, the ball's right here.

Speaker: Come get it.

Speaker: Yep, absolutely.

Speaker: So going on with the Wonka Vader, the second question we have then is with the standard, it's a virtual lock.

Speaker: Does that still carry over from from player to player as well?

Speaker: Or is that something different?

Speaker: Right now, I believe it's individual.

Speaker: per game.

Speaker: I think it might carry from player to player, but don't hold me to that.

Speaker: That's something that's in software and I haven't dug around on the standard edition enough to give you a solid answer on that.

Speaker: But with that being the game that's going out on locations more often, I believe that's a feature we'll definitely want to make sure we have right.

Speaker: People want to know that that's going to happen there.

Speaker: Well, if I have a follow up question under that is if it's not going to be a physical lock, how are you going to on location show, and you might not know the answer to this, but how are you going to show that there is the two balls locked and one computer is almost ready?

Speaker: Yeah, I'm not sure how that will be implemented.

Speaker: That'll be a question that we'll have to get cats to answer in one of his one of his sessions.

Speaker: All right, no worries.

Speaker: So my question about joining an industry where you have a history of it and you grew up, your family's been into routing, and so you have that background into pinball, then going away and kind of moving away.

Speaker: But after you're finishing your degree, you decide to jump back into the pinball world.

Speaker: How is it different working in the industry versus being a fan from the outside?

Speaker: Um, it's, it's definitely different than I expected.

Speaker: One of the big things that didn't really, um, didn't really come into my mind when I started working was how interested the fan base would be in what I do day to day.

Speaker: Uh, so having people, you know, when I go to a pinball league, everyone's able to talk about what they work on and what they do on their day jobs and,

Speaker: then the conversation comes to me and I just have to close my mouth and be like, yep, working on a game.

Speaker: That's all I can say.

Speaker: But the people are very interested.

Speaker: Pinball being in the entertainment industry is kind of a concept that never really crossed my mind because I view it from an engineer's point of view, where it's a craft that we make, that we design, do the math to make sure things work out.

Speaker: But there's this unmeasurable

Speaker: fun factor this entertainment factor that people are trading in their quarters or when they're having a game at home trading in thousands of dollars for fun and for entertainment so it's a it's a facet of the industry that um goes a little deeper than i anticipated

Speaker: So is pinball still fun for you when you're still working anywhere from 40 hours to 100 hours a week doing this day in and day out?

Speaker: When you leave, do you still want to go and play pinball at home or in league or on location?

Speaker: Because for me, I would think, man, that would be really difficult to still capture the fun and entertainment value for myself when I'm already doing it for my day job.

Speaker: It is still fun for me.

Speaker: When I see games on location, I will still play them because I'm trying to do my small part to keep pinball alive on location.

Speaker: Supporting our local operators, supporting our local tournament directors, people who had these games out on route is what brings in non-pinball people.

Speaker: You're not getting more players and more buyers of games by just having games in people's basements.

Speaker: I find myself...

Speaker: not playing by myself all too often in my basement because I have two small kids.

Speaker: But when my 18-month-old says pinball, pinball, and hits the basement door, you're damn right.

Speaker: I'm picking him up, and we're going downstairs, and he's standing on the chair in front of the game, and I'm playing, standing behind him.

Speaker: And he's looking at the lights and trying to grab the ball through the glass and

Speaker: and things like that.

Speaker: So it's definitely still entertaining for me.

Speaker: I had my pinball league last weekend and I love hanging out with those guys and girls and playing all the different games that people have in their collections.

Speaker: So yeah, definitely still something I find fun and entertaining.

Speaker: That's awesome.

Speaker: That would be just a tragedy, in my opinion, if you were to grow up with it and then have it tarnished for working in the industry.

Speaker: No, I am completely opposite.

Speaker: Awesome.

Speaker: Cool.

Speaker: Well, the other question is, too, since you grew up in the industry and everything with that, how is it?

Speaker: Because I assume that you play a lot of like Pat Lawler games and Keith Johnson games and stuff like that with Lord of the Rings, like you said, one of your your other interviews.

Speaker: How is it working with those industry professionals now?

Speaker: It's great.

Speaker: Pat and Keith are very experienced in the industry.

Speaker: Pat has a lot of knowledge to share with what he did with games back in the 90s and early 2000s, getting games on location and making games fun to play.

Speaker: Pat has some of the most creative games ever made.

Speaker: And having him here to bounce ideas off of and talk to is a very good resource.

Speaker: Keith is an encyclopedia of knowledge when it comes to pinball.

Speaker: When I come up with a concept, I'm like, I really like to do XYZ.

Speaker: And he says, oh, yeah, just like on Harlem Globetrotters.

Speaker: Like, what do you mean?

Speaker: And I go look up Harlem Globetrotters on IPDB and like, ah, yes, exactly like on that game.

Speaker: Or some other abstract rule where I'm like, this would be really fun if we did this.

Speaker: Oh, yeah, you know, just like on Embryon.

Speaker: No.

Speaker: Yes, exactly.

Speaker: Just like on Ambrian.

Speaker: Damn it, Keith.

Speaker: So he has this encyclopedia of rules knowledge, more so than anyone I've ever met.

Speaker: and just like knows every game out there and i mean that's probably why he was he's a very skilled player um that's probably what pushed him over the top as far as a great tournament player because he just he knows rules on every game um and probably what makes him a wonderful programmer and a huge asset to this company he can come up with these rules and and and take a little bit from

Speaker: from different games and modify them and come up with his own new unique fun things to do in a pinball machine.

Speaker: I will admit that I nerded out when I first started working here and I brought in my Lord of the Rings back glass and had my co-worker sign it.

Speaker: So that absolutely happened.

Speaker: That is totally cool.

Speaker: Okay, now I know that you said one time that you made it to Valinor.

Speaker: Have you made it again?

Speaker: Um, I have only made it once and it wasn't even on my game.

Speaker: As sad as that is, I made it on my brother's game Christmas Eve one year when I was staying at his house and yeah, I started screaming.

Speaker: It was like midnight, started the game at like 10 45 and it was midnight when I got to Valinor.

Speaker: He came out like wearing a bathrobe.

Speaker: He's like, what's on fire?

Speaker: What's happening?

Speaker: I'm like, I made Valinor.

Speaker: He's like, Oh cool.

Speaker: Watched it for a little bit.

Speaker: Like, all right, go to bed.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So in addition to Lord of the Rings, what else is in your home collection?

Speaker: Let's see here.

Speaker: I just took a picture of it so that I would have these to make sure I got them all right.

Speaker: I have Lord of the Rings.

Speaker: I have Bonsai Run prototype number seven with a diamond coat playfield, which is amazing.

Speaker: I have Stern Star Trek.

Speaker: I have Tron.

Speaker: Uh, Simpsons Pinball Party, and then a Wizard of Oz Yellow Brick Road, a Hobbit, a Dialed In, and Collector Edition number 001 of Pirates of the Caribbean.

Speaker: Of course.

Speaker: And I just bought a Harlem Globetrotters, actually, and it's sitting in the office.

Speaker: Just got it today.

Speaker: Oh, nice.

Speaker: And set up here so that we can, you know, play dollar games.

Speaker: How often do you turn over games?

Speaker: I actually don't get rid of games all that often.

Speaker: I don't know.

Speaker: I've had probably 10 different games than the ones I've listed.

Speaker: But for the most part, my brother Christopher and I share a collection.

Speaker: So when a game starts to get stale for me, I'll say, like, okay, you can have Black Knight 2000 for six months, and I'll take Scared Stiff.

Speaker: And we'll just swap games like that.

Speaker: And that way we don't have to go through as many games like buying and selling out of our collections.

Speaker: We'll just switch with each other.

Speaker: That brings me to another question because you were talking about family earlier.

Speaker: Is there any pinball machines that aren't allowed in the house?

Speaker: My wife doesn't even know about most of the pinball games.

Speaker: There's games that I personally wouldn't bring into my house with my kids being so young.

Speaker: I have a four-year-old and an 18-month-old.

Speaker: And I just think something like

Speaker: Walking Dead would give them nightmares.

Speaker: So I wouldn't bring that in my house.

Speaker: It's a fun game.

Speaker: I like playing it.

Speaker: Don't get me wrong.

Speaker: But it's not something that I would bring in or like a Playboy or, you know, games that are not necessarily family friendly.

Speaker: I gotcha.

Speaker: Oh, come on.

Speaker: You're not saying that Playboy would be fun trying to show your four year old.

Speaker: Maybe when he's like 10.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Well, I can attest to, I took my son to the last tournament, the last group meetup we had, and they had a Walking Dead there.

Speaker: And he's eight, and he's like, Dad, I think I'm going to have nightmares tonight from this game.

Speaker: I'm like, okay, it's not coming into the collection then.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: No, I certainly think that there's... The one thing that I really liked about the games that JJP has put out is I think every single one of them

Speaker: could be adapted to all locations.

Speaker: There's nothing that is taboo about any of them.

Speaker: And I've appreciated as a young father that I don't have any issues about selecting any of them to go into my collection.

Speaker: Has that been a... Has that been intentional by Jersey Jack or has that just been a byproduct of which games you've been working on?

Speaker: It's definitely been...

Speaker: combination of both like i remember when i was talking to some of the women in bells and chimes here in chicago and how they personally thanked me which i didn't have much anything to do with it but for betty the robot um in dialed in like thank you for showing a woman with a wrench in her hand wearing overalls instead of like standing there

Speaker: with her, with her, like a large chested woman with her chest hanging out, like hanging on stuff.

Speaker: It was like, that shows a strong woman who can fix things, who's a mechanic, which is so much better than what most pinball machines, you know, I think this was, they were looking at a big juicy melons game, for example, that was, that was there in the tournament, you know, and how like, it's just not the type of game that I would want to put my name on that I would want to put out there just because of how it demeans women.

Speaker: so the other games that we have have all have um art that is classy um and and keeps things you know pretty well in the scope of where it's approachable by everyone families um friends of that aren't into pinball and men and women um

Speaker: try to make it so that it works for everyone.

Speaker: I guess I've never noticed that, but now that it's gotten and you have brought it up, I can definitely see that.

Speaker: It's pretty cool.

Speaker: So when you're designing a pinball machine, is there a certain way that you design or is it kind of just free flow?

Speaker: What do you do when you come to that step?

Speaker: Generally for me, I try to design the major mechanisms and

Speaker: toys in a game before, like those take priority to me and then the shots, um, going around them.

Speaker: And then obviously there's a give and take back and forth.

Speaker: But to me, the, the mechanisms that interact with the ball that make a game new and unique take, take priority.

Speaker: And then you make the shots work.

Speaker: I make the shots work around those.

Speaker: Do you have a preference for a, uh, a two flipper game or a three flipper, a four flipper, or even a five flipper?

Speaker: I,

Speaker: What are some things that you think, you know what, this is in my wheelhouse?

Speaker: Because I think that every game tends to have a feel for a designer.

Speaker: A Lawler game feels different than a Ritchie game, then feels different than a Borg game.

Speaker: And they all kind of have a signature style.

Speaker: What is your signature style?

Speaker: That's really hard to look at.

Speaker: I mean, I only have one game made.

Speaker: out in production that people have played.

Speaker: From a technical point of view, I'm definitely a, personally, I'm a more advanced player.

Speaker: I prefer deep rule sets.

Speaker: I prefer complexity and strategy.

Speaker: And I think that definitely shows in Pirates.

Speaker: As well as having

Speaker: Good ball control and technical skills.

Speaker: Being able to trap up balls in the lower playfield and then make a cannon shot with a ball in the upper playfield by only half pressing the flipper buttons in is something that I purposefully wanted to do.

Speaker: And that's why that game has two flippers up on the upper playfield.

Speaker: Three on the main play field, being able to trap up in a multiball and still make shots with other flippers is something that can really show an advanced player and a skilled player, you know, that what is possible in a multiball situation.

Speaker: You know, and honestly, that upper rocking play field blew me away when I first saw it.

Speaker: It's crazy to see.

Speaker: I know everyone was complaining about the discs and whatnot.

Speaker: I was like, that upper play field is very innovative.

Speaker: I don't think I've seen anything.

Speaker: Maybe Keith has.

Speaker: But that is just an awesome little mech.

Speaker: And it fits the theme perfectly.

Speaker: And it adds to an element that I don't think has ever been added to pinball in complexity as well.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Thank you.

Speaker: So kind of talking about designing as well, are there any kind of constraints that you have to consider when you're designing pinball?

Speaker: Absolutely.

Speaker: I mean, first and foremost, Jersey Jack pinball is still a business.

Speaker: You know, games need to be made in a timely fashion and need to be assemblable by players.

Speaker: a factory worker, a line worker, who's not trained in mechanical engineering and not trained in electrical engineering.

Speaker: Someone who comes and is able to put screws together, screw down parts onto a play field, and not have to fine tune and adjust every single piece that goes into it.

Speaker: So it has to be reliable and manufacturable.

Speaker: And those are two extremely important constraints that I use.

Speaker: And then also be serviceable.

Speaker: That's another big constraint that I want to work with and try to put into all of my games.

Speaker: Just my experience being an operator has shown how difficult it can be to work on games.

Speaker: You know, not everyone has.

Speaker: all the tools that I have in my workshop in their repair bag.

Speaker: So, you know, trying not to use specialized components or things where you need a 90 degree drill bit or weird things like that, you know, being able to try to get parts off of a game without having to take the entire game apart, for example, is another thing that I think most designers look at and comprehend after the fact, but I don't,

Speaker: know if there have been a lot of other designers who have been operators and have worked on that side of the business.

Speaker: So it feels like it's something that's really in the forefront of my head when I'm designing a game.

Speaker: Well, and I really appreciate that as a homeowner, too, because I own a World Cup Soccer 94.

Speaker: And I hate working on that game because it's ramps layered on top of ramps.

Speaker: And it's just it's so it's just it's hours of working on it when something should be as simple as replacing a light bulb in a pop bumper.

Speaker: That popper is in the back under that ramp.

Speaker: All of a sudden you're tearing off two sets of ramps.

Speaker: We're trying to figure out how to get some specialized thing in there.

Speaker: And so I think that's one of the other things I really do appreciate about the direction that JJP is going, because I don't want to spend, I want to play my game.

Speaker: I don't want to spend hours working on it.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Well, and I mentioned this on the past podcast too, that

Speaker: The one thing I've been really impressed with is, at least the major companies, how involved they are in the maintenance and troubleshooting for the layperson.

Speaker: I would say that I've been under a playfield and I can find basic stuff wrong with it, but I'm not your typical hobbyist who knows how to get in and out of everything.

Speaker: And when I sent in a question about my was, my upper play field doors going into the castle, one of them's not opening.

Speaker: And Lloyd sent back quickly, he said, well, you know, these are the things you need to check for.

Speaker: Boom, boom, boom.

Speaker: And I asked back and even then Butch chimed in and said, well, check out, it's on this, this page in the manual and this is how you take it apart.

Speaker: And I was really impressed that someone high up in the company would actually care about, you know, someone like me.

Speaker: I'm just a, I am one guy who has one game, but was interested enough to say, yeah, we want to make sure that's working.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: It's something that I have to limit myself from doing because I will,

Speaker: I want every customer to be happy regardless of the game.

Speaker: I mean, I've gotten to know friends through pinball where they're like, hey, man, I'm having a problem with my Tron.

Speaker: I'm like, all right, I have a Tron.

Speaker: Here's how to fix it.

Speaker: Let's make it work.

Speaker: Like I said, all pinball is good pinball, and I want people to have fun playing their games.

Speaker: Yeah, well, I think that's a credit to the company.

Speaker: I had a question about designing.

Speaker: So when you're designing, there are different approaches that people can take.

Speaker: They can be the, hey, you're going into the room, you're the designer, you do your thing, and then come out and show us what you're doing with your whitewood.

Speaker: There are other things that are more of a collaborative process of a couple people working on it with one person as the lead.

Speaker: What do you prefer to

Speaker: And what do you foresee as like advantages or disadvantages to different approaches?

Speaker: I see the way I design is I will come up with concepts in a white wood and I will bring in my teammates, Keith and Joe Katz specifically, and talk to them about the concepts that are in my head after I've drawn them out.

Speaker: and make sure those guys will think it's going to be fun and make sure they think they're, you know, see what sort of sparks go off in their brain when they look at that concept when it comes to rules and programming and what would make a fun strategy.

Speaker: So I'm more collaborative in my design process as far as bringing in other guys and talking to them about the ideas than other designers that I've worked with.

Speaker: And I think there are great advantages of it.

Speaker: You know, it's, these guys are all very passionate about pinball and they all want to make the best product.

Speaker: So I, there, I want them on my team and I want them, their voices to be heard.

Speaker: Yes, I'm the one designing it and I'm the one who's drawing it and putting it together.

Speaker: But I absolutely want to hear their input every step of the way.

Speaker: So when it does come to designing some themes and whatnot, too, do you guys kind of get a say in what you design theme wise?

Speaker: Because I know that there has been talks recently of pinball machines have been scrapped because no one in the company really had a passion for it.

Speaker: And when you guys all seem very passionate about what you do, is there a theme where you can kind of reject and you're just like, it's just not for us kind of thing?

Speaker: Um, absolutely.

Speaker: That's happened, um, with different, different themes that have come along.

Speaker: Um, you know, we haven't been far down the road on the theme and then rejected it.

Speaker: It's been more sitting around the conference table and say, all right, theme X is here.

Speaker: What do people think about it?

Speaker: Theme Y is over here.

Speaker: What do people think about it?

Speaker: Um,

Speaker: And we all generally agree on what themes we think will make a good game.

Speaker: So it's just, it's something that having passion for the project definitely helps and having interest in the project, you know, can make a, can really inspire a game designer and programmers to, to do some, some neat new stuff that's never been done before or apply, uh,

Speaker: their love of that license in a way that probably wouldn't be done in the same way from someone who doesn't care about the license or the product.

Speaker: So what are some of the lessons you learned from your first machine, which by all accounts, Pirates was, it was a shooting for the fences.

Speaker: You're going for a grand slam.

Speaker: There wasn't one gimmick in there.

Speaker: There were about five different things that people said, Hey, that's never been in the machine.

Speaker: What are the things that you learned from that experience?

Speaker: into integrating for your next whitewood your next game um well getting a game getting a whitewood shooting and flipping and that sort of thing is relatively easy taking a whitewood to production is extremely difficult it takes a a mountain of people to make that happen um and so designing

Speaker: mechanisms that, I mean, obviously people know about the three disc and the opening and closing trunk, like those mechanisms functioned in a whitewood and they functioned in prototypes.

Speaker: But there was a lot of tweaking that had to happen to make those happen.

Speaker: And when you have a factory that's trying to screw together 20 games a day, those sort of tweaks on overly complex mechanisms will slow them down.

Speaker: and will make games not reliable in the field.

Speaker: So that's something that, you know, going to take with a grain of salt, the coolest mechanism in the world is cool on a prototype game, but might not work in production.

Speaker: Okay, I definitely see how that would work.

Speaker: Are there, it seems like a lot of the

Speaker: At least with Wonka anyway.

Speaker: It seems a little more streamlined.

Speaker: Like you said, it seems to be, hey, we're trying to get a machine that will work really well on location.

Speaker: And I think that Wonka will be a very recognizable game on location.

Speaker: What are the things that you're thinking of for your next game?

Speaker: And if you can tell me, how do you have a Whitewood that you're working on?

Speaker: I do h ave a Whitewood.

Speaker: I've been playing it for a couple months now and working on refining it and getting it to production ready status.

Speaker: So working on fun, interesting, fast gameplay.

Speaker: Pirates is very fast and interesting to play.

Speaker: And I think this game will feel

Speaker: different than Pirates.

Speaker: I don't know how much more I can say about it, but it's definitely a different feel in the game than Pirates is.

Speaker: Awesome.

Speaker: Well, we don't want to be asking you what your next title is and all that jazz.

Speaker: We've learned from Franchi we're not supposed to do that, so we're not going to be doing that here.

Speaker: So what has been your favorite thing about working at JJP so far?

Speaker: What has been the, wow, this is amazing?

Speaker: Um, probably the most surreal aspect.

Speaker: I've told this story a couple times.

Speaker: I don't know if I've done it on interviews or not, but working.

Speaker: So as a double degree holding engineer, something I never thought I would do in my life was direct a Hollywood actor.

Speaker: Um, so for Pirates of the Caribbean, when we hired Kevin McNally to do the script, it was a script that I wrote that me personally, um, I wrote the script and then,

Speaker: In the studio, I directed Mr. McNally on how to say jackpot and multi-ball and things like that.

Speaker: And like, Mr. McNally, thank you for taking the time out of performing at Shakespeare's Globe Theater, which he, so he came into the recording studio on his day off from doing, I think it was Macbeth at the Globe Theater.

Speaker: And holy crap, real actor here.

Speaker: Can you please emphasize jackpot with a little more growl in it, you know, and...

Speaker: it was just completely out of this world, you know, something that never in my, in my head as an engineer in school would have thought I would be directing a Hollywood actor.

Speaker: When I don't know if you can say anything to this or not, but was it with working with him?

Speaker: Was there times he just kind of rolled his eyes at you when you're like, he got, it sounded great, but you should do this a little bit differently.

Speaker: Nope.

Speaker: He was completely on board with everything.

Speaker: I mean, we did probably,

Speaker: 25 or 30 different recordings of jackpot and he just kept interjecting with new ones and different ones and different emphasis and he was amazing to work with really was passionate about the project even though he wasn't into pinball he was just excited about it and asked me to email him like pictures of the game and how this is going to be used and video clips and stuff like that so he he was super into it that's way awesome

Speaker: Is, um, so is speak like you said with, with the actor, um, sometimes they come in and they're not into pinball.

Speaker: Has there ever been a time where you guys been like, this is our project and they got into it and like, holy crap, this is awesome.

Speaker: And then they wanted to be a part of it as in like, they wanted a machine and, and to get more involved or is it pretty much kind of just business as usual?

Speaker: Um, it's, it definitely happened in pirates for sure.

Speaker: Um,

Speaker: working with Disney and getting the licensing taken care of with them was difficult.

Speaker: I'll leave it there.

Speaker: I mean, I had 14 different people's contact info at Disney that I was working with on a weekly basis.

Speaker: I was doing all of the day-to-day work in the licensing with them, trying to get things approved and such.

Speaker: Once they actually got a game,

Speaker: in their hands and were able to see it and flip it.

Speaker: I got so many emails from people just say, I get it.

Speaker: I understand what you're doing and why you're asking for so much.

Speaker: Because they're used to licensing a lunchbox or a plush toy that has like three sound calls in it.

Speaker: And I was asking for thousands of video clips and stills of actors and

Speaker: you know, trying to get the hand-drawn look for all the actors and they push back on stuff like that.

Speaker: Like, well, we'll have to go and get this approved by all the different actors.

Speaker: I'm like, yeah, you will.

Speaker: And I'm going to ask, I'm going to hold your feet to the fire to make you do that because this is what makes a pinball look good.

Speaker: We want to have as much hand-drawn art and show that we're passionate about this project.

Speaker: And this is what people love to see.

Speaker: So they...

Speaker: The emails I got from them saying, we get it, after getting their hands on the game, was really fulfilling.

Speaker: That they understood and finally saw the passion that went into the project.

Speaker: Yeah, I think by far the...

Speaker: Now, this is me projecting.

Speaker: I've never had to deal with a license, but I can assume that the bigger the license, the more that the licensor has at risk because they've already put in thousands to millions of dollars in building this brand.

Speaker: And they want to make sure that whatever you're doing is going to tell the story that they want to tell, which is why I'm sure that dealing with some of these bigger licenses

Speaker: it can be very challenging for a pinball designer because they're saying, well, we would like to do this, we'd like to do that.

Speaker: And that's why the big licenses like the Star Wars, the Pirates, all these type of licenses that have made billions of dollars for Disney or any other company, that they're pretty jealous about how they're going to present their product.

Speaker: And I'm sure it's the same way with even a classic license.

Speaker: something like Wonka, that they're trying to say, well, because another movie is not coming out anytime soon, we want to make sure whatever you're selling is going to be in keeping with our vision of the brand, the product placement, et cetera.

Speaker: Is that a fair assessment of how to look at it?

Speaker: That is absolutely correct.

Speaker: And looking at it from the license holder's point of view, so Disney, for example, with Pirates,

Speaker: I wanted, and I think most of the pinball community wanted, He's a Pirate, the theme song for Pirates of the Caribbean.

Speaker: And I asked and I presented a case and I pleaded for it.

Speaker: And Disney music holders, which was the group that I had to work with there, said, we're sorry, our hands are tied.

Speaker: Jerry Bruckheimer does not want this to be used in a game.

Speaker: I'm like, well, why does he get to choose that?

Speaker: He doesn't own the music.

Speaker: It's owned by Hans Zimmer.

Speaker: But then taking a step back and realizing that I, from a pinball, a pinball license is a drop in the bucket of the money that

Speaker: Jerry Bruckheimer brings to Disney they're like no we're just not going to ruffle feathers and try to convince Jerry Bruckheimer that that you know he needs to give up his music or his decision here so he personally didn't want the music in the game and that's kind of where it stopped and I asked a couple more times and I was you know

Speaker: I was told no again.

Speaker: Well, I can appreciate it from their standpoint as saying that there are, this is not a, this is not a, this is not a big enough deal for Disney

Speaker: if they said it's already been addressed and they've kind of moved on.

Speaker: That's why they have like style guides and everything like that in a theme.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I will say that I actually don't have the JJP one yet, but I do have the Stern one and I actually have a friend who made a custom sound package.

Speaker: So I actually have that music.

Speaker: Nice.

Speaker: But I look forward to having right now I have black rose and I have,

Speaker: the stern pirates, and I look forward to at some point in the future getting the JJP one so I can have an all pirates area.

Speaker: That would be fun.

Speaker: So we know that JJP has taken Pirates off the line or is taking it off the line and you guys have the license for the next three years.

Speaker: Are you guys looking at putting it back on the line at some point?

Speaker: Because we've heard that there's still plenty of demand for it, but we just didn't.

Speaker: We wanted to, I guess, clear some of that up.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Officially, the company has not stated that we will never make Pirates again.

Speaker: So...

Speaker: I'll leave it at that.

Speaker: It makes sense to me that if there is still demand, that we would run the game again.

Speaker: But that is not my decision.

Speaker: You know, the decision was that Wonka was ready to go.

Speaker: Let's get that on the line.

Speaker: And we'll probably see where we are after Wonka has sold thousands of units.

Speaker: Yeah, I have a feeling that it's nice to actually mix things up.

Speaker: We know how many releases Wizard of Oz has gone through.

Speaker: And being able to go back and say, hey, there's more demand.

Speaker: Let's make more.

Speaker: I would be shocked if at some point Jersey Jack doesn't do the same thing.

Speaker: It's like, okay, we've made tons of Wonkas.

Speaker: Now let's go back and make a few of these other ones so we can sell them too.

Speaker: Because there are a lot of these games that are kind of a slow growth game.

Speaker: where people, they get it and they don't realize how much of demand there will be until they've kind of moved on.

Speaker: And that's the beauty of modern manufacturing techniques that you can actually go back and do a quick run of 100, 200, 300 to fulfill the demand.

Speaker: So I'm sure that that, this is me talking, not you, but I would be shocked if we didn't see another 500 run of pirates in the next year.

Speaker: So I guess that pretty much wraps it up for the questions that we had for you, Eric.

Speaker: Is there anything else you want to talk about?

Speaker: Or is there another question that you had, Scott?

Speaker: I'm nothing else that comes to mind that I need to get off my chest.

Speaker: So Scott, if you have another question, I'm still open.

Speaker: Let's see.

Speaker: Let me take a second.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Here's a question.

Speaker: Have you ever been to over the rainbow?

Speaker: Oh, yes.

Speaker: I have not legitimately been to over the rainbow.

Speaker: I helped, you know, when we were play testing it.

Speaker: When we made the program, programmed it so that when you hit one button, it started somewhere with a rainbow.

Speaker: That was fun.

Speaker: But the closest I've gotten to on my personal game at home was six of the jewels.

Speaker: So have you been to Pure Imagination then yet?

Speaker: Well, that's not in the game yet.

Speaker: So not yet.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: He's been there in his mind.

Speaker: He has been there.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Actually, while we're talking right now, the programmers...

Speaker: basically there's there's six programmers that are working on the game um and five of them are doing a wizard doing their own wizard modes or wizard mode is concepts so that stuff is coming together right now as we're recording it and yesterday i got to play one which was a whole lot of fun um and there's two others that are active and playable in the game so i'm

Speaker: I'm excited for the next software release.

Speaker: When we start the production, it'll have those wizard modes in it, and it's going to be a lot of fun.

Speaker: Well, cool.

Speaker: I think that's all the questions we had.

Speaker: So we really appreciate having you on, Eric, and taking time out of your busy schedule to sit down with us and answer these us little guys questions that we had for you.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: No, we really appreciate it.

Speaker: We know that this is your job.

Speaker: This is our hobby, but we appreciate that you actually are taking time off, valuable time to actually talk to us on our hobby.

Speaker: And I certainly look forward to meeting you at some point in the future and getting you to sign my Pirates Translite when I pick it up.

Speaker: Nice.

Speaker: I will absolutely do that.

Speaker: Actually, I carry Playfield decal, apron decals.

Speaker: generally with me at every show.

Speaker: And if I meet someone who has a pirates, I'm more than happy to sign an apron decal for them and they can put it on their game when they get home just because I'm not in the factory every day.

Speaker: So I'm not able to sign games as easily.

Speaker: But this is sort of a way that from my Chicago office and at shows and stuff, I can still sign people's games for them.

Speaker: So it's awesome.

Speaker: Life of a rock star, right?

Speaker: Thank you.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Well, again,

Speaker: Thanks again.

Speaker: We really appreciate everything you're doing for it.

Speaker: And I am ecstatic that we have new blood going into the industry that is really pushing

Speaker: pushing pinball forward and certainly appreciate what the, the legends, the legendary designers have done up to this point.

Speaker: And I think it's time to pass the baton in a figurative way to the new guys and say, now let's work together and see when you guys take a new design, let's see what the old guys can do.

Speaker: And then back and forth.

Speaker: I love this back and forth that you guys have that will give us more things that we haven't seen yet in pinball.

Speaker: Yeah, man.

Speaker: Totally.

Speaker: Well, awesome.

Speaker: Thanks again, Eric.

Speaker: We appreciate it.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Thanks guys.

Speaker: It was a pleasure.

Speaker: Thanks.

Speaker: All right, Scott, now that we've wrapped up that interview, what were some of the takeaways that you had with it?

Speaker: I think the takeaway is that the people involved in the pinball industry are just as passionate about it.

Speaker: And probably even more so than even us casual fans or even rapid fans.

Speaker: I think that it shows that there are certainly business aspects that go along.

Speaker: And this is the challenge with a lot of times what happens is when we look at something, we're looking at it from how it affects us or a certain fan population.

Speaker: But really, there are so many components to just running a business and to trying to stay afloat that it's so challenging for them to walk that line.

Speaker: But I think that in the end, they're trying to put out the best product and they want to stand behind it.

Speaker: You can hear by his voice how excited he is to be part of pinball, which is really challenging if it's your hobby and also your job, because eventually at some point your hobby becomes work.

Speaker: And that's a really challenging thing to maintain.

Speaker: What did you think?

Speaker: I agree.

Speaker: I think that between, well, not only that, but we kind of talked about family and being able to balance that and still be able to enjoy the hobby.

Speaker: You know, I'm always afraid if someone gets into this hobby as a profession and you're behind the curtain and whatever happens behind there that we don't know, it kind of puts a bitter taste in your mouth.

Speaker: But it sounds like, like you said, a lot of these people, it's a passion and it's just amplified through it.

Speaker: And so it was kind of cool to see that.

Speaker: It sounds like they have some more operated focused ambitions, which is kind of cool because I feel like no one really competes with Stern in that market.

Speaker: So it will be good to see what happens with Wonka.

Speaker: Yeah, so I would say that certainly there are aspects of it.

Speaker: It did sound like they were trying to push to be a little less boutique-type pinball and...

Speaker: trying to be a little more mass marketing.

Speaker: I'm not sure that it's going to be a radical change from what their path is, but you're right.

Speaker: I think they are certainly trying to capture the location aspect of pinball that really Stern has dominated forever because for the last five years, when Wizard of Oz jumped into the market with Jersey Jack pinball,

Speaker: location pinball was almost non-existent.

Speaker: It really had just evaporated to the point where it was a home collection market.

Speaker: But I think that we've seen at least a resurgence of location pinball.

Speaker: And I think that they are wisely adapting to market trends.

Speaker: I agree.

Speaker: You know, and after everything that I've heard, you know, just to recap, if you guys didn't know, we were on head to head pinball podcast last week.

Speaker: We got to talk about Wonka.

Speaker: But the problem was, is we kind of was talking about it as it was being revealed.

Speaker: And so we didn't get to see everything that was thrown at the production of this.

Speaker: I mean, it was amazing that special when lit did the did the panel discussion live.

Speaker: Buffalo did the live stream, which was amazing.

Speaker: And straight down the middle had all the fantastic behind the scenes footage.

Speaker: But we were trying to cram to record the show because we recorded it, what, an hour and a half after the stream had started?

Speaker: And so I think some of it kind of fell loose in translation, so to speak.

Speaker: And so a lot of the things...

Speaker: reveal and mid gameplay and so yeah this was really a a gut first impression which is what a lot of people uh lock in their decision on on how they like a game and it takes a lot to really change their entrenched position so i i still stand by my initial first take in on wonka

Speaker: I think it'll be a great game.

Speaker: I think if you're a Lawler fan, I think it will still sell tons of units.

Speaker: And I think this could be another evergreen title that they can go back to.

Speaker: Really, I wouldn't be surprised if they are able to put out a new machine and manufacture that for four to five months, and then the other seven months go back and pick some of these evergreen titles.

Speaker: work on Wizard of Oz, probably do some more pirates because I know pirates were underproduced compared to the demand.

Speaker: And at some point, I wouldn't be surprised if, hey, Dialed In gets another role because, hey, it's a great game.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So the thing I was going to say was, is, you know, some of the complaints have been coming out is artwork and the artwork's the same on the play field across all of them.

Speaker: And so I didn't really get it until I saw the side artwork really on the standards.

Speaker: I know that they're focusing it towards an operator market.

Speaker: So it's not that big of an issue if there's not really artwork, artwork on it, because when you go to see pinball machines or play them on location, they're usually in between each other.

Speaker: And so you're not really going to see the side stuff.

Speaker: And from what I'm listening to is a lot of people that like this title are going to go with either the LE or the collector's edition.

Speaker: So it doesn't really matter on the side artwork on that stuff because it's going to be in your home.

Speaker: And so that's going to be nicer compared to

Speaker: the SE and so I think they're smart with what they're doing.

Speaker: They're not really taken away from the gameplay.

Speaker: The key and I think I think Jack knows this.

Speaker: I think everyone down there knows this.

Speaker: The key to this is just hitting those those markers.

Speaker: Like they said, they want to do the 60 days really, you know, between the showing of the game to out the door.

Speaker: And I really hope that they can keep to that.

Speaker: I really think that's one of the secrets to competing in this market on a stern level.

Speaker: I agree.

Speaker: And side art is, of all the art that I care about, side art is the last factor.

Speaker: Yes, it's interesting, it's cool, but all of my pins are lined up next to each other.

Speaker: The only one I actually see is Attack from Mars remake because that's the first thing I see when I walk down the stairs.

Speaker: But all the other ones, I never see the side art.

Speaker: And so really, I care about play field art and back glass.

Speaker: But ultimately, that is the first impression.

Speaker: And then once you start playing the game, a lot of that stuff kind of disappears.

Speaker: If it's fun, if it brings you in, but ultimately it is how the game plays.

Speaker: And if it's fun enough and it brings you into that experience, whatever you're looking for.

Speaker: I agree.

Speaker: And honestly, I think between me and you and Martin, we were kind of the adage, um, not a home title yet, but getting our hands on it's what's going to determine this.

Speaker: I like the theme.

Speaker: I know that you and Martin weren't so hip on it, but I really think that this is a game that if it plays as buttery smooth as everyone's claiming, it could be quite the fun game to have.

Speaker: Well, I, and I, and there's nothing wrong with saying that, um,

Speaker: you know, the game is not for my home collection.

Speaker: No, not at all.

Speaker: I will still put, you know, $20, $50 in this game over time just on location if it's there or go to someone's house and play.

Speaker: I know two people.

Speaker: I know one person who actually is getting the collector's edition or planning on it and one person who's getting the LE edition.

Speaker: So I'll definitely get my hands on it.

Speaker: And I think that that is part of looking at the market and saying, you can't buy every game.

Speaker: If you did, Stern has four games a year.

Speaker: Let's just assume JJP is going to stick to one game a year.

Speaker: So that's five.

Speaker: Spooky every 18 months or so, that's six.

Speaker: And then there's going to be other players in the market that are going to be doing things.

Speaker: Chicago Gaming Company.

Speaker: And so

Speaker: I can't buy six or seven games a year.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So you, you have to pick what you, what you identify with, what, what draws to you.

Speaker: And that's the reason why they do different, different themes.

Speaker: And so, Hey, that speaks to me.

Speaker: That one doesn't.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Move up.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: Well, speaking of moving on, maybe we should move on to news.

Speaker: I think everyone's heard enough about Wonka.

Speaker: We're just excited to now finally get our hands on it.

Speaker: But moving on to the news, have you checked this out?

Speaker: The new deep root Raza teaser trailer?

Speaker: I did.

Speaker: And I think that it's certainly possible that this will be hilarious.

Speaker: Um,

Speaker: I think that in pinball, a lot of things that have gone right for Stern in trying to go for music pins, trying to go for movie franchises, trying to throw in the occasional oddball, but for the most part, and what you have Mustang in there, you could probably throw Black Knight in there, but they're all pretty mainstream themes.

Speaker: which are completely different than the approach of Williams in the nineties.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Williams in the nineties had a lot of these campy tongue in cheek.

Speaker: Hey, we're just having fun and we're not taking ourselves too seriously themes.

Speaker: Um,

Speaker: And if it's done right, then the humor can be fun.

Speaker: If it's done wrong and it falls flat, we've all been to that movie that thought it was hilarious.

Speaker: And it's just painful when you're trying, when you can tell they're trying to be funny, but it lands flat.

Speaker: So I think that there's certainly that potential here.

Speaker: However, I think it looks great.

Speaker: I think it looks fun.

Speaker: I like the quirkiness of J-pop.

Speaker: And let's just throw out his bad business adventure on the side.

Speaker: If you look at his playfield designs, they're fun.

Speaker: And they're certainly innovative.

Speaker: My friend has a Circus Volterra, which is absolutely beautiful.

Speaker: And I told him that you can never sell that game because you'll never find another one that is in that great condition.

Speaker: And I asked him, he has the best of Bally Williams of the 90s.

Speaker: And I asked him, hey, what games do people play the most?

Speaker: And he said, they come over and they always play two games the most.

Speaker: They play Whitewater and they play Circus Voltaire.

Speaker: And it's something's different and distinct about those two games.

Speaker: And I think if they can capture that, I think there is a market for that.

Speaker: And if Deep Root is able to resurrect some of that Bally Williams campiness and the fun in pinball, I think that is an underserved and untapped market right now.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: Well, and looking at the video itself, the artwork looks really good.

Speaker: And so I hope that translates into the game as well.

Speaker: I hope that we can see these as LCD animations and that everything else follows right in suit.

Speaker: Honestly, to wrap this all up on DeepR, I'm just ready.

Speaker: I'm ready to see something.

Speaker: I like the teaser trailer.

Speaker: We've been hearing this for a year and a half now, I think.

Speaker: And I'm ready to see behind the curtain.

Speaker: They've got a star-studded cast.

Speaker: They've got games that everyone sounds like they're going to enjoy.

Speaker: It's time.

Speaker: So that's my hope for them.

Speaker: I hope so.

Speaker: I certainly hope they're able to do something.

Speaker: And really, even if they come into the market, and I know they're talking as if they're going to outproduce Stern,

Speaker: I think if they are able to do something that JJP is doing, maybe somewhere between JJP and Stern, because it sounds like DeepRoot is going to try to be more of a volume distributor.

Speaker: I think that will certainly go a long way.

Speaker: Hopefully it will open up the market a little bit.

Speaker: I agree.

Speaker: So today I was listening to the Slap Save Pinball podcast, and it sounds like they've got a new segment on here.

Speaker: Have you heard this new segment with Christopher Franchi?

Speaker: You know, I haven't, so fill me in.

Speaker: So it is Around the Playfield with Christopher Franchi and his dog, Barlow.

Speaker: But no, it sounded really good.

Speaker: Franchi went off.

Speaker: It was edited really well.

Speaker: I don't know if Franchi is doing all the little movie clips that went in with it, but it sounded really good.

Speaker: It was it was really fun.

Speaker: And I thought he did an awesome job playing off of his dog with all the the

Speaker: barking and whatnot and the gruffing.

Speaker: Um, if you haven't listened to it, I don't want to spoil any of it.

Speaker: Go to slap save pin, uh, pinball podcast, check it out.

Speaker: Uh, good episode, not only for Franchi, but slap save themselves.

Speaker: I know that Chris has walked away and now they have Matt on there with Jason and it sounds good.

Speaker: Uh, I think they're trying to find some of their footing.

Speaker: Uh, it's a little different to go from one host to another or co-host.

Speaker: And so it's, it's starting to flow really well.

Speaker: And so, um,

Speaker: Congratulations, guys.

Speaker: Sounds good.

Speaker: Yeah, I think it's good.

Speaker: Chris obviously is one of the most vocal, passionate, opinionated guys out there, and I think that's good.

Speaker: You can bring that to the pinball marketplace, and people like seeing that.

Speaker: Everybody brings their personality.

Speaker: Chris brings a personality.

Speaker: Lyman Sheets has his own personality.

Speaker: It's not that vocal.

Speaker: He's kind of that...

Speaker: programmer in the corner who is willing to just do his job and not and not be the over-the-top personality guy and then there's john borg who's the you know who's the skateboarder guy so hey it's always good to see a little more about these people that we've grown to be fans of and their work um if they're able to put out podcast content that allows people to see them more god bless

Speaker: And speaking of people putting up podcast content that is kind of pinball celebrity, Raymond Davidson put out his own pinball podcast.

Speaker: He's on episode three right now.

Speaker: He is the number one ranked IFPA player in the whole world.

Speaker: And his points aren't even close to the next, to second place.

Speaker: He's like 1100 plus.

Speaker: And the next guy's like 930.

Speaker: So he decided to make his own pinball podcast about tournaments and strategy.

Speaker: It's really good.

Speaker: If you're into that kind of stuff, check it out.

Speaker: Might get some tips, might get some pointers on how to help with your next competition.

Speaker: Now, if you think about this, this is pretty amazing.

Speaker: I don't know of any other...

Speaker: competitive environment where the top players readily give away advice.

Speaker: They're telling you how you can beat them if you're willing to listen to them.

Speaker: Now,

Speaker: they're also confident in their abilities and they say, look, I'm still going to beat you even if you have all my knowledge.

Speaker: But that's kind of an amazing thing when you think about how transparent the top players are.

Speaker: And Bone's been doing his tutorials for years.

Speaker: Rayman now is doing his own thing and he's going to be telling you, hey, here's the tips of the trade and this is the way I approach a game.

Speaker: That's

Speaker: really unheard of in any other competitive setting.

Speaker: I can't think of anything else that would really come close.

Speaker: What do you think?

Speaker: I totally agree.

Speaker: It's unheard of on any sport level.

Speaker: So it's very awesome that people want to win based off of their skill and not necessarily knowing a shortcut.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Basically they're not, they're not taking the easy way out.

Speaker: They're going to say, look, correct.

Speaker: Like we're all playing by the same rules and certainly knowing the rule set certainly plays to your advantage.

Speaker: And I'm one of those guys where I have not put in the time to learn a lot of these rule sets.

Speaker: I'm like Martin from head to head that way.

Speaker: I, I know enough to be dangerous, but not enough to really blow up a game.

Speaker: If I'm playing against someone who knows what

Speaker: So next we have a Black Knight sighting in Salt Lake City at our local bar slash arcade that we have.

Speaker: We have a Black Knight Pro.

Speaker: I haven't had a chance to to play it personally.

Speaker: Have you been able to go out, Josh, and see it?

Speaker: I haven't, but our former champion, state champion, Stephen Strom, as soon as he found out I was there, he lives in Elko, Nevada, which is what?

Speaker: Is it a two hour drive, three hour drive?

Speaker: Yeah, it's between two and three hours.

Speaker: he just was like, I'm going to be there.

Speaker: And we're, and the funny part is, is, um, he travels up to salt Lake for various reasons and he just was out here.

Speaker: So he's like, gosh, dang it.

Speaker: I got to come out and play it.

Speaker: And next thing I know on Facebook, he's taking pictures and posting and saying, this game is amazing.

Speaker: And so there was plenty of comments, uh, on the black night and they all seem to be positive.

Speaker: Um,

Speaker: I not to say that's a bad like not shock or anything.

Speaker: It's a Steve Ritchie.

Speaker: So it's definitely going to be killer.

Speaker: But one of the general themes that keeps coming back from the pro is I'm going to try to do this in my best Arnold Schwarzenegger voice.

Speaker: Ready for this?

Speaker: Go ahead.

Speaker: It's totally brutal.

Speaker: So that was terrible.

Speaker: That was terrible.

Speaker: But everyone's loving it.

Speaker: They say that it's, it's got a lot of good gameplay there, but it's also kicking your butt because you've got to decide what you're going to hit, but it's also got the flow.

Speaker: So you don't want to stop.

Speaker: So do you know what it feels like?

Speaker: Huh?

Speaker: It feels like mortal combat.

Speaker: No, I'm serious.

Speaker: It feels like that that's what they're going for.

Speaker: You're going for a brutal game.

Speaker: You're going for this high octane, high energy game.

Speaker: And yes, it's going to be fast.

Speaker: And yes, it's going to be brutal.

Speaker: But it has that feel of Mortal Kombat.

Speaker: And so...

Speaker: I think they certainly got the tone right.

Speaker: I, I can't imagine a different way of doing the black night.

Speaker: And so they captured exactly what people like about the black night.

Speaker: I agree.

Speaker: And I think it looks like I said, you know, there was a lot of talk from the streams that looked like it was a right flipper dominated game.

Speaker: I wasn't getting that from the comments either.

Speaker: It looks like it's pretty well-rounded in what you can do with both flippers.

Speaker: So, well, again, this is,

Speaker: This is a game that you need to have very similar elements to Black Knight and Black Knight 2000.

Speaker: So they have to at least make it fit the theme.

Speaker: And so if they did a radical change of the play field, it really wouldn't be the Black Knight.

Speaker: You wouldn't feel that same connection.

Speaker: And the people who really are into this game or excited about this game, they played the Black Knight.

Speaker: They played Black Knight 2000.

Speaker: And now they are excited to have the next release.

Speaker: I agree.

Speaker: Well, and I just, like I said, I can't wait to get my hands on it.

Speaker: We'll have to do something here soon.

Speaker: I'll have to get my butt up there and we'll have to play it.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So I did just Google how long it would take to get from Elko, Nevada to Kito's Brewing.

Speaker: And it's three hours, 27 minutes.

Speaker: Nice.

Speaker: Thank you for making the travel, Steven.

Speaker: That is, yes.

Speaker: Now that is commitment, my friend.

Speaker: That's the reason why he's the state champ, because it would take me about 40 minutes to get to Kito's and I still haven't been up there.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And it's a three-hour and small drive for me as well, but I haven't run out there yet, so I guess I can't make that same.

Speaker: So do you follow the strictly custom pinballs that Jake Danzing has put on Facebook?

Speaker: I have.

Speaker: done some custom pinballs re-themes there are some of them that i think are amazing looking and it certainly i i love i love a re-theme especially when it's a passion project when you usually have the the lcd or the the color dmd it's a little more difficult because there's some programming issues that don't just readily

Speaker: translate to a re-theme, but I certainly appreciate the passion project of someone if they say, look, I want to make this machine.

Speaker: Well, this last week in that group, the Strictly Custom Pinball Machines, it has been blowing up with a new homebrew.

Speaker: Brian Soares, along with professional wrestler Matt Hardy's wife, Jessica Hardy, took a Stern Mustang and they rethemed the whole game from top to bottom, Code Everything.

Speaker: into Matt Hardy's expedition for gold.

Speaker: And it's really cool because they surprised him with it.

Speaker: We'll put the video in the show notes.

Speaker: But this game has been done more professionally than some of the other manufacturers that are putting games out there right now.

Speaker: And I'm not going to pick on anyone.

Speaker: But it's crazy because the way that he did this game is...

Speaker: it's got black light integrated with a lot of greens and purples.

Speaker: And so there's a part where like it kind of shuts off the lights and does kind of black light.

Speaker: And it's just the codes all there.

Speaker: It's all Matt Hardy.

Speaker: You're working on instead of collecting the Mustangs, you're collecting the different titles from the different wrestling groups out there.

Speaker: I'm sorry.

Speaker: I don't follow wrestling very much, so I don't fully understand the,

Speaker: everything behind it, but the artwork's all custom.

Speaker: I mean, this thing is beautiful and it's just crazy.

Speaker: Uh, the love and effort that went into it.

Speaker: And even more cool is how much Matt Hardy appreciated it from his family.

Speaker: And so a couple of videos on there between gameplay and showing off, um, Matt being surprised with it.

Speaker: Fantastic.

Speaker: Absolutely cool.

Speaker: I would love to see Tommy Skinner gives hand on this game.

Speaker: because he is so into professional wrestling.

Speaker: He loves it.

Speaker: He is a great pinball player, and I would love to see how he feels about it.

Speaker: What you're saying about a custom game, and that's not too surprising to say that, hey, a one-off game, someone can throw the kitchen sink at it.

Speaker: They can do a billion things to it that look higher end than your standard run-of-the-mill release.

Speaker: And that's because they're not...

Speaker: This is what custom car people do.

Speaker: is they take a car and then they put $50,000 into it and they could probably sell it for 45, you know, so, so they're never going to make their money off it.

Speaker: Um, because there's like, no, I want this.

Speaker: I want the Chrome.

Speaker: I want the laser.

Speaker: I want the bubble machine.

Speaker: I want, you know, I want the monkey on the chain, you know, all these kinds of crazy things that you just wouldn't be able to do if you're doing a mass production game.

Speaker: And so,

Speaker: That doesn't surprise me, but yes, it does look fantastic.

Speaker: It is certainly high polish and high gloss.

Speaker: And if this is someone's passion project, then, hey, I think it's amazing.

Speaker: I love seeing these types of things.

Speaker: Well, that wraps it up for our news notes that we have.

Speaker: I wanted to do a couple more things before we shut it down.

Speaker: I want to do a quick shout out to Randy Bowman.

Speaker: He reached out to us after last episode and said that he listens to podcasts on player FM and he knows that we weren't on there and he enjoys our podcast.

Speaker: He had been just listening via SoundCloud.

Speaker: And so he asked to help us out and he got us on player FM.

Speaker: So we really appreciate that Randy for doing that.

Speaker: And he also wanted to know they appreciates that we keep it family friendly.

Speaker: So.

Speaker: Well, there you go.

Speaker: No, I appreciate that.

Speaker: And you know what?

Speaker: The thing is with all these podcasts is you just have to find out there's so many options out there.

Speaker: And there are so many, you know, just think of it as tables at a cafeteria and

Speaker: You can find your group, like which group you identify with, which group you gel with and you like their take.

Speaker: And that's the beautiful part of having podcasts is that there are so many just you can find your thing.

Speaker: This is our thing.

Speaker: And so I love that there are at least a few people at our table.

Speaker: And, you know, also shop around.

Speaker: There's lots of awesome tables out there that I appreciate what they do.

Speaker: Well, and we received an email this week.

Speaker: So I kind of gave you the heads up on it, but I didn't really tell you what was in it.

Speaker: So shall I read it to you and see what your thoughts are?

Speaker: So lay it on me.

Speaker: Okay, this is from Steven Haberman.

Speaker: He said, I heard you on head to head.

Speaker: Would love to hear more about your thoughts on games coming into your home that aren't family friendly.

Speaker: I have a faith based life and though my wife would not fight me on any games coming in.

Speaker: I have a four year old daughter and she scares easily.

Speaker: I would prefer devil or demon themes not to be in the home.

Speaker: And I've been in the hobby for three years, though I can only fit three to four games.

Speaker: I have swapped through about 14 at this point.

Speaker: Just wanted to know if you keep scary games out of the house and or if not, do the kids play them?

Speaker: Okay, so you and I both have a kid around the same age.

Speaker: My oldest is eight.

Speaker: How old's your oldest?

Speaker: Eight.

Speaker: Yeah, so same age.

Speaker: We've got them together and they both play together.

Speaker: You know what?

Speaker: Here's the challenge with kids playing games is that they...

Speaker: They will play them occasionally, but for the most part, they're going to be playing, you know, if you're down there and you're playing a game, they may come down.

Speaker: And as they get older, they will probably start understanding more if you're into the games and they'll start saying, Oh, maybe I want to play this.

Speaker: Maybe I want to be able to spend some time with that on this, on this weird hobby.

Speaker: That is most people don't even know exists anymore.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Um,

Speaker: So when it comes to themes, the way I look at it, there's so many games out there that I would absolutely play and I would love.

Speaker: I have said it before.

Speaker: I grew up with Iron Maiden.

Speaker: My first concert was an Iron Maiden concert when I was 13 and I snuck out and I told my parents I was going to watch movies at my friend's house.

Speaker: So went to that concert.

Speaker: It was a crazy story.

Speaker: And I would love to have an Iron Maid pinball machine.

Speaker: That being said, I look at that and say, yeah, I've got an eight-year-old, a six-year-old, and a four-year-old.

Speaker: And I think it's going to be a little too intense for them.

Speaker: So it's not one that I would put in the house at this time.

Speaker: I understand that as we get older, we kind of see either the camp of it or just be able to have fun with it.

Speaker: But there are also themes that I wouldn't put in my house because like The Walking Dead, I think The Walking Dead is a fantastic game.

Speaker: But man, those that that color DMD coloring of that is a little cringe worthy at time.

Speaker: And I and a it completely fits the theme of the of the game.

Speaker: Yeah, but it's it's just too much for me.

Speaker: And so when I'm selecting games, I try to select games that anybody who comes through the door

Speaker: is going to be comfortable.

Speaker: Now, everybody chooses their own way of setting up their game room.

Speaker: There are certainly a lot of alternative trance lights that are very risque.

Speaker: And I'm sure that there are tons of people who have those type of things.

Speaker: And that's just how they set up their game room.

Speaker: So I,

Speaker: I think it's just your personal approach.

Speaker: Your personal approach is, Hey, what works for me and my family?

Speaker: You certainly don't want to pick a game that will cause friction with your family.

Speaker: I agree.

Speaker: And I know people who have sold games, they bought a game.

Speaker: And even if, even if it's just campy or maybe a little bit kind of raise your eyebrow,

Speaker: But the one thing is this is stereotypically one person who has a passion and then the partner or spouse usually tolerates it.

Speaker: And if you find something that your partner or spouse is not really into, that's just one more thing that makes it more challenging to own this expensive box of lights that you put in your house that you could put a down payment on a car on.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So that's my take on it.

Speaker: I have really selected things.

Speaker: The most risque theme I have is Black Rose.

Speaker: And for the most part, it really is very, you know, I would say G slash PG.

Speaker: What is your approach when you're picking out games?

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So my approach is to actually sit down with my wife and we kind of go through the possible candidates of pinball machines that come into our house.

Speaker: And we talk about...

Speaker: I actually go and kind of study the pinball machine.

Speaker: We talked about The Walking Dead, but after Carter went and saw it at one of the local competitions and he did say that it would probably give him nightmares, we decided best not to bring that one in.

Speaker: The only other one that has been kind of risque that we thought about not bringing in was ACDC.

Speaker: And the reason for that one was is there's some imagery in there that, like you said, at first they might not get it.

Speaker: But I'm afraid keeping it in the home over time, like she shook me all night long with women getting into the car and shaking the car along with the lady.

Speaker: Oh, crap.

Speaker: It's one of the song modes.

Speaker: It's going to drive me nuts.

Speaker: And someone's probably going to message us and say what it is.

Speaker: But it's the one where it has the giant inflatable doll.

Speaker: And every time you hit the pop bumper, her boobs jiggle up and down.

Speaker: And so those are two that we've decided against.

Speaker: I've never had an urge to have like a gogar in the house.

Speaker: And so it's never been an issue for me.

Speaker: But for the most part, we just try to keep it something that our children can enjoy as well.

Speaker: I've noticed that like with when we had Revenge for Mars, Carter loved the Mars needs women mode.

Speaker: And it was kind of weird because he would gravitate to that a lot.

Speaker: Um, and I just thought it was kind of kooky, uh, not saying it's a terrible mode and you shouldn't have in your home because of it.

Speaker: But when, uh, an alien's massaging a naked woman and she says, oh, that feels good.

Speaker: And he's like, tell me more, baby.

Speaker: And she freaks out, you know?

Speaker: I don't know.

Speaker: It just... We decided... That's why I kind of... One of the reasons kind of upgraded to Attack for Mars.

Speaker: And like I said earlier in the interview, the only other one was High Roller Casino.

Speaker: And yeah, I wasn't planning on keeping it.

Speaker: So it wasn't a big issue when my wife's like, we probably shouldn't have this here if Carter thinks that the women on her are naked.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Well, and I think this is interesting.

Speaker: You don't realize how many...

Speaker: what word am I searching for?

Speaker: Things that aren't kid friendly until you have kids or you start watching them with kids.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: The innuendos and stuff like that.

Speaker: If you're watching any 80s film, a lot of times you pick up on, wow, I don't remember there's this much swearing in it or wow, I didn't realize how much innuendos in there.

Speaker: And I think that that's pretty common.

Speaker: There's a reason why there is a family-friendly comedian out there.

Speaker: There are family-friendly movies out there because it does get a little awkward when you have that.

Speaker: And

Speaker: Again, you have to pick your lane.

Speaker: I know someone who I talked to and they said they watch Game of Thrones with their entire family.

Speaker: We're talking parents.

Speaker: We're talking she watches it with her spouse and she has her kids.

Speaker: And when it's a crazy scene, she's like, OK, under the blanket.

Speaker: And so that's how they do it.

Speaker: That's not that's not for me.

Speaker: And that's the.

Speaker: Again, it's the beautiful part in Pinball is that you get to choose your lane, what you're comfortable with, what you're not comfortable with, and you find that happy spot.

Speaker: I think the best thing is kind of look at all those things that are, if you're making your own collection, take your family.

Speaker: Hey, what do you think of this game?

Speaker: Do you like this game?

Speaker: Do you like the theme?

Speaker: So if you look at mine, mine is very family friendly.

Speaker: I have Simpsons.

Speaker: I have Tron.

Speaker: I have X-Men.

Speaker: I have Pirates of the Caribbean.

Speaker: I have Shrek.

Speaker: You know, this is...

Speaker: this is all those things that would really fit in fine with, with most families.

Speaker: And maybe there are some things about, uh, you could argue that X-Men, the characters on there are dressed a little risque because it's that, it's that retro eighties, nineties comic book style where they, they took some liberties with some costumes.

Speaker: I'll put it that way.

Speaker: Um, but I, I don't really notice that.

Speaker: And my, my family hasn't said that, so I'm okay with it.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Well, like I was saying before to just sit down with your wife and go through some of the aspects.

Speaker: There's some things that you're probably listening to and like, holy crap, like they don't allow anything in their houses.

Speaker: And there's some of you like, yeah, that makes sense why you're not doing that.

Speaker: Every home household is different.

Speaker: And one recommendation I would make to is pick games that are

Speaker: Aren't like pick themes that aren't going to make your kids then want to watch whatever it is.

Speaker: So like you said, Game of Thrones, if I brought a Game of Thrones into my home and then my eight year old started loving the game, he then in turn wants to know what the theme is about.

Speaker: So then he'd want to watch Game of Thrones and it would become a fight because then it's like, well, I don't understand this game's in our house, but we can't watch the show.

Speaker: So yeah.

Speaker: there are some interesting conversations I've had with some of the games that have come in the house, not saying even more terrible or anything like that, but it's like the Simpsons.

Speaker: You know, depending on which household you come from, it's either people love the Simpsons and all their kids can watch it.

Speaker: And some, some families don't like it and they don't want their kids to watch it.

Speaker: So when I brought in Simpsons, my son wanted to watch Simpsons.

Speaker: It was a fight for a while.

Speaker: And we ended up, we didn't, I didn't ever let him watch it just because I feel like he's a little young for some of the humor, but,

Speaker: Um, but yeah, that would be my suggestion.

Speaker: So you just dive into it and bought a family guy, right?

Speaker: Yes, exactly.

Speaker: Cause I wanted sperm multiball.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: But I, and this is, this is so great that you just, everybody gets to choose their own lane and guess what?

Speaker: You're buying the machine.

Speaker: So you get to make the choice.

Speaker: Yep, exactly.

Speaker: I just think that as long as you're finding things that the family can accept, it certainly makes your life easier.

Speaker: So I actually think when I look at Gorgar, Lost World or something, I look at that and I think, you know what?

Speaker: That reminds me of those fantasy books from the 70s or 80s.

Speaker: And so I would be okay with it.

Speaker: But I know my wife wouldn't.

Speaker: The women are a little too scantily clad for her taste.

Speaker: And that's fine.

Speaker: There are so many games out there that it's not a big deal for me.

Speaker: Well, let's wrap this up.

Speaker: We've been going for quite some time now.

Speaker: I hope you guys are enjoying your Friday.

Speaker: It's Wednesday for us, but by the time this releases, it'll be Friday.

Speaker: Just a couple more shout outs.

Speaker: We talked about a bunch of pinball podcasts last week or two weeks ago, and there is one that we missed.

Speaker: And I feel terrible because this man is a legend amongst the pinball community.

Speaker: I think he doesn't get enough recognition for what he does.

Speaker: And he never goes around touting that he isn't the top.

Speaker: But in my book, he is what professionalism is when it comes to pinball podcasting.

Speaker: So I just wanted to give a shout out to Jeff Teolis, man.

Speaker: You do a great job.

Speaker: Jeff certainly does his best impression of being the awesome radio promoter.

Speaker: He's a pro.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: So other than that, I think that pretty much does it for us, Scott.

Speaker: You got anything else for me?

Speaker: No, I think we're good.

Speaker: I'm going to wrap up here and try to get to Keto's this weekend.

Speaker: Awesome.

Speaker: Sounds good to me.

Speaker: Hopefully I can join you.

Speaker: All right.

Speaker: Sounds good.

Speaker: All right.

Speaker: Later, man.