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Episode 8: JJP and Family with Eric Meunier
53 Plays6 years ago
In this episode with get to talk to Eric Meunier (Game designer of JJP Pirates of the Caribbean ) and get to peek behind the curtain at Willy Wonka along with some of the cool stuff it took to make PotC.
If you want to follow along with the show on some of the things we discuss, then here are the links:
Deeproot's RAZA (https://youtu.be/opAK-32MfJM)
Slap Save Ep 21 (https://slapsave.podbean.com/e/ep-21-franchi-joins-us-our-top-3-fav-modern-sterns-sammy-p-calls-in-again/)
Us on Head2Head talking Wonka (http://www.head2headpinball.com/?powerpress_pinw=884-podcast)
Matt Hardy Expedition for Gold Custom Pin (http://hardypinball.com/)
Do or Die Pinball Podcast with Raymond Davidson (https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/do-or-die-pinball-podcast-raymond-davidson-RJGpc8LCV-U/)
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Episode 8
00:00:06
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
00:00:09
Speaker
We are currently on episode number eight.
00:00:11
Speaker
And with me, my co-captain, as always.
00:00:13
Speaker
I'm Scott Larson.
00:00:15
Speaker
And Scott, we have someone special with us today.
00:00:18
Speaker
I want you to introduce him since you guys connect on a better level than I do.
Meet Eric Minier
00:00:22
Speaker
Well, we are blessed with having Eric Minier here, who has been the game designer and project manager at Jersey Jack Pinball, and he's been going on six years.
00:00:34
Speaker
You will know him from his latest release, which was Pirates of the Caribbean.
00:00:39
Speaker
And we'd like to welcome Eric.
00:00:41
Speaker
Eric, how are you doing?
00:00:42
Speaker
Doing great.
00:00:42
Speaker
Thanks, guys.
00:00:43
Speaker
Thanks for having me on the show.
00:00:45
Speaker
For sure.
00:00:45
Speaker
Thanks for saying yes.
00:00:46
Speaker
Yes.
00:00:47
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:00:48
Speaker
Thanks for slumming it with
Inclusivity in Pinball
00:00:50
Speaker
the low pinball fruit, not that.
00:00:52
Speaker
Not the highbrow crowd.
00:00:54
Speaker
All pinball is good pinball, guys.
00:00:57
Speaker
Yes.
00:00:57
Speaker
We just wanted to get Jan asked you some questions.
00:00:59
Speaker
We know that you didn't necessarily do anything with Wonka, but...
00:01:03
Speaker
Whenever we see, at least when I see you, Eric, I see you kind of as the face of JJP.
00:01:09
Speaker
Even at the stream with Buffalo, you're kind of there in your blazer and answering questions as they came on.
00:01:15
Speaker
So we figured you'd be one of the best men to sit down and talk with since everyone else got the spotlight, right?
00:01:20
Speaker
Pat Lawler's already had it and so did Keith or Joe Katz.
00:01:25
Speaker
So, so far, is there anything that you feel like hasn't been covered with Wonka that you'd like to bring to light?
Designing Wonka Pinball: Challenges and Features
00:01:33
Speaker
Um, this game is definitely, um, a concept from Pat to bring location pinball, um, to get JJP games more in location pinball, um, focusing on, uh, like a three minute game time and focusing on rules that are easy to approach, um, things that carry over from game to game, like the Wonka Vader lock.
00:01:57
Speaker
Um, it really has the appeal of faster games, um,
00:02:02
Speaker
harder games, whereas some of our older games like Waz and Hobbit and Dialed In and even Pirates had longer ball times.
00:02:10
Speaker
So it's one of the things that we've been fine tuning here in the office, you know, tweaking posts and moving things around on the out lanes and at the bottom of the game to make it harder playing game.
00:02:22
Speaker
So Eric, when you're actually approaching a game, there are certainly ways of drawing from the past and implementing things in the future.
00:02:30
Speaker
You're walking that fine line of finding something that's innovative but familiar at the same time.
00:02:36
Speaker
And so what are the things that you saw about Wonka that you thought, this is a great concept that we want to implement it, and this is the new twist that we're bringing to it?
00:02:52
Speaker
The Wonka Vader was a cool thing that made a comeback, right?
00:02:57
Speaker
A carryover ball lock hasn't been used in a while.
00:03:01
Speaker
I'm trying to think of the last game that had a carryover ball lock from player to player that wasn't rapid stealing like Tina Day, where that could happen...
00:03:15
Speaker
Chris Wacker, From ball to ball, but this one is more of a further out goal, where you have to qualify the one computer and then lock it in there, and there's just this concept of.
00:03:24
Speaker
Chris Wacker, I see two balls in the walk of a leader I got to put in my money, so I can play the walk of your multi ball, I really think that was a fun concept to bring back just for, especially for location pinball getting people to.
00:03:38
Speaker
Chris Wacker, Get anxious about having two balls in there and being able to cash it in and have a monster game.
00:03:45
Speaker
Totally.
00:03:46
Speaker
I think there is something to be said about seeing that physical ball lock that makes it so much more attractive than just having one or two balls locked.
00:03:57
Speaker
My first game that I ever bought was Simpsons Pinball Party.
00:03:59
Speaker
And so when I saw the Wonka Vader, I thought that reminds me a lot of the couch.
00:04:04
Speaker
And there is something about seeing the balls just waiting there on the couch that you just want to get out there and lock that in.
00:04:11
Speaker
And I can see that being certainly kind of an advertising things like, hey, the ball's right here.
00:04:16
Speaker
Come get it.
00:04:17
Speaker
Yep, absolutely.
00:04:19
Speaker
So going on with the Wonka Vader, the second question we
From Fan to Industry Professional
00:04:23
Speaker
have then is with the standard, it's a virtual lock.
00:04:26
Speaker
Does that still carry over from from player to player as well?
00:04:29
Speaker
Or is that something different?
00:04:31
Speaker
Right now, I believe it's individual.
00:04:37
Speaker
per game.
00:04:39
Speaker
I think it might carry from player to player, but don't hold me to that.
00:04:43
Speaker
That's something that's in software and I haven't dug around on the standard edition enough to give you a solid answer on that.
00:04:51
Speaker
But with that being the game that's going out on locations more often, I believe that's a feature we'll definitely want to make sure we have right.
00:05:02
Speaker
People want to know that that's going to happen there.
00:05:05
Speaker
Well, if I have a follow up question under that is if it's not going to be a physical lock, how are you going to on location show, and you might not know the answer to this, but how are you going to show that there is the two balls locked and one computer is almost ready?
00:05:20
Speaker
Yeah, I'm not sure how that will be implemented.
00:05:23
Speaker
That'll be a question that we'll have to get cats to answer in one of his one of his sessions.
00:05:29
Speaker
All right, no worries.
00:05:32
Speaker
So my question about joining an industry where you have a history of it and you grew up, your family's been into routing, and so you have that background into pinball, then going away and kind of moving away.
00:05:47
Speaker
But after you're finishing your degree, you decide to jump back into the pinball world.
00:05:55
Speaker
How is it different working in the industry versus being a fan from the outside?
00:06:03
Speaker
Um, it's, it's definitely different than I expected.
00:06:10
Speaker
One of the big things that didn't really, um, didn't really come into my mind when I started working was how interested the fan base would be in what I do day to day.
00:06:23
Speaker
Uh, so having people, you know, when I go to a pinball league, everyone's able to talk about what they work on and what they do on their day jobs and,
00:06:32
Speaker
then the conversation comes to me and I just have to close my mouth and be like, yep, working on a game.
00:06:38
Speaker
That's all I can say.
00:06:40
Speaker
But the people are very interested.
00:06:44
Speaker
Pinball being in the entertainment industry is kind of a concept that never really crossed my mind because I view it from an engineer's point of view, where it's a craft that we make, that we design, do the math to make sure things work out.
00:06:58
Speaker
But there's this unmeasurable
00:07:01
Speaker
fun factor this entertainment factor that people are trading in their quarters or when they're having a game at home trading in thousands of dollars for fun and for entertainment so it's a it's a facet of the industry that um goes a little deeper than i anticipated
00:07:19
Speaker
So is pinball still fun for you when you're still working anywhere from 40 hours to 100 hours a week doing this day in and day out?
Balancing Work and Family with Pinball
00:07:30
Speaker
When you leave, do you still want to go and play pinball at home or in league or on location?
00:07:35
Speaker
Because for me, I would think, man, that would be really difficult to still capture the fun and entertainment value for myself when I'm already doing it for my day job.
00:07:48
Speaker
It is still fun for me.
00:07:50
Speaker
When I see games on location, I will still play them because I'm trying to do my small part to keep pinball alive on location.
00:07:58
Speaker
Supporting our local operators, supporting our local tournament directors, people who had these games out on route is what brings in non-pinball people.
00:08:08
Speaker
You're not getting more players and more buyers of games by just having games in people's basements.
00:08:16
Speaker
I find myself...
00:08:18
Speaker
not playing by myself all too often in my basement because I have two small kids.
00:08:24
Speaker
But when my 18-month-old says pinball, pinball, and hits the basement door, you're damn right.
00:08:31
Speaker
I'm picking him up, and we're going downstairs, and he's standing on the chair in front of the game, and I'm playing, standing behind him.
00:08:38
Speaker
And he's looking at the lights and trying to grab the ball through the glass and
00:08:41
Speaker
and things like that.
00:08:42
Speaker
So it's definitely still entertaining for me.
00:08:45
Speaker
I had my pinball league last weekend and I love hanging out with those guys and girls and playing all the different games that people have in their collections.
00:08:55
Speaker
So yeah, definitely still something I find fun and entertaining.
00:08:59
Speaker
That's awesome.
00:09:00
Speaker
That would be just a tragedy, in my opinion, if you were to grow up with it and then have it tarnished for working in the industry.
00:09:07
Speaker
No, I am completely opposite.
00:09:10
Speaker
Awesome.
00:09:11
Speaker
Cool.
00:09:12
Speaker
Well, the other question is, too, since you grew up in the industry and everything with that, how is it?
00:09:16
Speaker
Because I assume that you play a lot of like Pat Lawler games and Keith Johnson games and stuff like that with Lord of the Rings, like you said, one of your your other interviews.
00:09:28
Speaker
How is it working with those industry professionals now?
Learning from Pinball Legends
00:09:32
Speaker
It's great.
00:09:32
Speaker
Pat and Keith are very experienced in the industry.
00:09:38
Speaker
Pat has a lot of knowledge to share with what he did with games back in the 90s and early 2000s, getting games on location and making games fun to play.
00:09:50
Speaker
Pat has some of the most creative games ever made.
00:09:51
Speaker
And having him here to bounce ideas off of and talk to is a very good resource.
00:10:00
Speaker
Keith is an encyclopedia of knowledge when it comes to pinball.
00:10:03
Speaker
When I come up with a concept, I'm like, I really like to do XYZ.
00:10:08
Speaker
And he says, oh, yeah, just like on Harlem Globetrotters.
00:10:11
Speaker
Like, what do you mean?
00:10:12
Speaker
And I go look up Harlem Globetrotters on IPDB and like, ah, yes, exactly like on that game.
00:10:18
Speaker
Or some other abstract rule where I'm like, this would be really fun if we did this.
00:10:22
Speaker
Oh, yeah, you know, just like on Embryon.
00:10:24
Speaker
No.
00:10:25
Speaker
Yes, exactly.
00:10:26
Speaker
Just like on Ambrian.
00:10:27
Speaker
Damn it, Keith.
00:10:28
Speaker
So he has this encyclopedia of rules knowledge, more so than anyone I've ever met.
00:10:36
Speaker
and just like knows every game out there and i mean that's probably why he was he's a very skilled player um that's probably what pushed him over the top as far as a great tournament player because he just he knows rules on every game um and probably what makes him a wonderful programmer and a huge asset to this company he can come up with these rules and and and take a little bit from
00:10:59
Speaker
from different games and modify them and come up with his own new unique fun things to do in a pinball machine.
Eric's Personal Pinball Collection
00:11:09
Speaker
I will admit that I nerded out when I first started working here and I brought in my Lord of the Rings back glass and had my co-worker sign it.
00:11:18
Speaker
So that absolutely happened.
00:11:21
Speaker
That is totally cool.
00:11:24
Speaker
Okay, now I know that you said one time that you made it to Valinor.
00:11:28
Speaker
Have you made it again?
00:11:31
Speaker
Um, I have only made it once and it wasn't even on my game.
00:11:34
Speaker
As sad as that is, I made it on my brother's game Christmas Eve one year when I was staying at his house and yeah, I started screaming.
00:11:43
Speaker
It was like midnight, started the game at like 10 45 and it was midnight when I got to Valinor.
00:11:51
Speaker
He came out like wearing a bathrobe.
00:11:52
Speaker
He's like, what's on fire?
00:11:54
Speaker
What's happening?
00:11:54
Speaker
I'm like, I made Valinor.
00:11:55
Speaker
He's like, Oh cool.
00:11:57
Speaker
Watched it for a little bit.
00:11:58
Speaker
Like, all right, go to bed.
00:11:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:01
Speaker
So in addition to Lord of the Rings, what else is in your home collection?
00:12:06
Speaker
Let's see here.
00:12:08
Speaker
I just took a picture of it so that I would have these to make sure I got them all right.
00:12:13
Speaker
I have Lord of the Rings.
00:12:15
Speaker
I have Bonsai Run prototype number seven with a diamond coat playfield, which is amazing.
00:12:23
Speaker
I have Stern Star Trek.
00:12:28
Speaker
I have Tron.
00:12:31
Speaker
Uh, Simpsons Pinball Party, and then a Wizard of Oz Yellow Brick Road, a Hobbit, a Dialed In, and Collector Edition number 001 of Pirates of the Caribbean.
00:12:43
Speaker
Of course.
00:12:45
Speaker
And I just bought a Harlem Globetrotters, actually, and it's sitting in the office.
00:12:49
Speaker
Just got it today.
00:12:51
Speaker
Oh, nice.
00:12:52
Speaker
And set up here so that we can, you know, play dollar games.
00:12:57
Speaker
How often do you turn over games?
00:13:00
Speaker
I actually don't get rid of games all that often.
00:13:05
Speaker
I don't know.
00:13:06
Speaker
I've had probably 10 different games than the ones I've listed.
00:13:13
Speaker
But for the most part, my brother Christopher and I share a collection.
00:13:18
Speaker
So when a game starts to get stale for me, I'll say, like, okay, you can have Black Knight 2000 for six months, and I'll take Scared Stiff.
00:13:29
Speaker
And we'll just swap games like that.
00:13:31
Speaker
And that way we don't have to go through as many games like buying and selling out of our collections.
00:13:36
Speaker
We'll just switch with each other.
00:13:38
Speaker
That brings me to another question because you were talking about
Family-Friendly Pinball Machines
00:13:40
Speaker
family earlier.
00:13:40
Speaker
Is there any pinball machines that aren't allowed in the house?
00:13:45
Speaker
My wife doesn't even know about most of the pinball games.
00:13:49
Speaker
There's games that I personally wouldn't bring into my house with my kids being so young.
00:13:54
Speaker
I have a four-year-old and an 18-month-old.
00:13:56
Speaker
And I just think something like
00:13:58
Speaker
Walking Dead would give them nightmares.
00:14:01
Speaker
So I wouldn't bring that in my house.
00:14:03
Speaker
It's a fun game.
00:14:04
Speaker
I like playing it.
00:14:05
Speaker
Don't get me wrong.
00:14:06
Speaker
But it's not something that I would bring in or like a Playboy or, you know, games that are not necessarily family friendly.
00:14:17
Speaker
I gotcha.
00:14:18
Speaker
Oh, come on.
00:14:18
Speaker
You're not saying that Playboy would be fun trying to show your four year old.
00:14:24
Speaker
Maybe when he's like 10.
00:14:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:27
Speaker
Well, I can attest to, I took my son to the last tournament, the last group meetup we had, and they had a Walking Dead there.
00:14:34
Speaker
And he's eight, and he's like, Dad, I think I'm going to have nightmares tonight from this game.
00:14:39
Speaker
I'm like, okay, it's not coming into the collection then.
00:14:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:43
Speaker
No, I certainly think that there's... The one thing that I really liked about the games that JJP has put out is I think every single one of them
00:14:53
Speaker
could be adapted to all locations.
00:14:56
Speaker
There's nothing that is taboo about any of them.
00:14:59
Speaker
And I've appreciated as a young father that I don't have any issues about selecting any of them to go into my collection.
00:15:09
Speaker
Has that been a... Has that been intentional by Jersey Jack or has that just been a byproduct of which games you've been working on?
00:15:20
Speaker
It's definitely been...
00:15:23
Speaker
combination of both like i remember when i was talking to some of the women in bells and chimes here in chicago and how they personally thanked me which i didn't have much anything to do with it but for betty the robot um in dialed in like thank you for showing a woman with a wrench in her hand wearing overalls instead of like standing there
00:15:45
Speaker
with her, with her, like a large chested woman with her chest hanging out, like hanging on stuff.
00:15:51
Speaker
It was like, that shows a strong woman who can fix things, who's a mechanic, which is so much better than what most pinball machines, you know, I think this was, they were looking at a big juicy melons game, for example, that was, that was there in the tournament, you know, and how like, it's just not the type of game that I would want to put my name on that I would want to put out there just because of how it demeans women.
Art and Aesthetics in Pinball Design
00:16:15
Speaker
so the other games that we have have all have um art that is classy um and and keeps things you know pretty well in the scope of where it's approachable by everyone families um friends of that aren't into pinball and men and women um
00:16:40
Speaker
try to make it so that it works for everyone.
00:16:43
Speaker
I guess I've never noticed that, but now that it's gotten and you have brought it up, I can definitely see that.
00:16:49
Speaker
It's pretty cool.
Design Priorities: Mechanisms First
00:16:50
Speaker
So when you're designing a pinball machine, is there a certain way that you design or is it kind of just free flow?
00:16:57
Speaker
What do you do when you come to that step?
00:17:01
Speaker
Generally for me, I try to design the major mechanisms and
00:17:07
Speaker
toys in a game before, like those take priority to me and then the shots, um, going around them.
00:17:15
Speaker
And then obviously there's a give and take back and forth.
00:17:17
Speaker
But to me, the, the mechanisms that interact with the ball that make a game new and unique take, take priority.
00:17:24
Speaker
And then you make the shots work.
00:17:26
Speaker
I make the shots work around those.
00:17:29
Speaker
Do you have a preference for a, uh, a two flipper game or a three flipper, a four flipper, or even a five flipper?
00:17:36
Speaker
I,
00:17:37
Speaker
What are some things that you think, you know what, this is in my wheelhouse?
00:17:44
Speaker
Because I think that every game tends to have a feel for a designer.
00:17:49
Speaker
A Lawler game feels different than a Ritchie game, then feels different than a Borg game.
00:17:54
Speaker
And they all kind of have a signature style.
00:17:57
Speaker
What is your signature style?
00:18:01
Speaker
That's really hard to look at.
00:18:03
Speaker
I mean, I only have one game made.
00:18:05
Speaker
out in production that people have played.
00:18:09
Speaker
From a technical point of view, I'm definitely a, personally, I'm a more advanced player.
00:18:14
Speaker
I prefer deep rule sets.
00:18:15
Speaker
I prefer complexity and strategy.
00:18:18
Speaker
And I think that definitely shows in Pirates.
00:18:21
Speaker
As well as having
00:18:24
Speaker
Good ball control and technical skills.
00:18:27
Speaker
Being able to trap up balls in the lower playfield and then make a cannon shot with a ball in the upper playfield by only half pressing the flipper buttons in is something that I purposefully wanted to do.
00:18:38
Speaker
And that's why that game has two flippers up on the upper playfield.
00:18:43
Speaker
Three on the main play field, being able to trap up in a multiball and still make shots with other flippers is something that can really show an advanced player and a skilled player, you know, that what is possible in a multiball situation.
00:18:57
Speaker
You know, and honestly, that upper rocking play field blew me away when I first saw it.
00:19:02
Speaker
It's crazy to see.
00:19:03
Speaker
I know everyone was complaining about the discs and whatnot.
00:19:06
Speaker
I was like, that upper play field is very innovative.
00:19:09
Speaker
I don't think I've seen anything.
00:19:10
Speaker
Maybe Keith has.
00:19:12
Speaker
But that is just an awesome little mech.
00:19:14
Speaker
And it fits the theme perfectly.
00:19:17
Speaker
And it adds to an element that I don't think has ever been added to pinball in complexity as well.
00:19:23
Speaker
Right.
00:19:24
Speaker
Thank you.
Design Constraints and Challenges
00:19:26
Speaker
So kind of talking about designing as well, are there any kind of constraints that you have to consider when you're designing pinball?
00:19:34
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:19:35
Speaker
I mean, first and foremost, Jersey Jack pinball is still a business.
00:19:40
Speaker
You know, games need to be made in a timely fashion and need to be assemblable by players.
00:19:49
Speaker
a factory worker, a line worker, who's not trained in mechanical engineering and not trained in electrical engineering.
00:19:57
Speaker
Someone who comes and is able to put screws together, screw down parts onto a play field, and not have to fine tune and adjust every single piece that goes into it.
00:20:05
Speaker
So it has to be reliable and manufacturable.
00:20:12
Speaker
And those are two extremely important constraints that I use.
00:20:18
Speaker
And then also be serviceable.
00:20:19
Speaker
That's another big constraint that I want to work with and try to put into all of my games.
00:20:27
Speaker
Just my experience being an operator has shown how difficult it can be to work on games.
00:20:34
Speaker
You know, not everyone has.
00:20:36
Speaker
all the tools that I have in my workshop in their repair bag.
00:20:40
Speaker
So, you know, trying not to use specialized components or things where you need a 90 degree drill bit or weird things like that, you know, being able to try to get parts off of a game without having to take the entire game apart, for example, is another thing that I think most designers look at and comprehend after the fact, but I don't,
00:21:06
Speaker
know if there have been a lot of other designers who have been operators and have worked on that side of the business.
00:21:11
Speaker
So it feels like it's something that's really in the forefront of my head when I'm designing a game.
00:21:18
Speaker
Well, and I really appreciate that as a homeowner, too, because I own a World Cup Soccer 94.
00:21:23
Speaker
And I hate working on that game because it's ramps layered on top of ramps.
00:21:28
Speaker
And it's just it's so it's just it's hours of working on it when something should be as simple as replacing a light bulb in a pop bumper.
00:21:36
Speaker
That popper is in the back under that ramp.
00:21:38
Speaker
All of a sudden you're tearing off two sets of ramps.
00:21:40
Speaker
We're trying to figure out how to get some specialized thing in there.
00:21:44
Speaker
And so I think that's one of the other things I really do appreciate about the direction that JJP is going, because I don't want to spend, I want to play my game.
00:21:53
Speaker
I don't want to spend hours working on it.
00:21:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:56
Speaker
Well, and I mentioned this on the past podcast too, that
00:22:00
Speaker
The one thing I've been really impressed with is, at least the major companies, how involved they are in the maintenance and troubleshooting for the layperson.
Customer Service in Pinball
00:22:11
Speaker
I would say that I've been under a playfield and I can find basic stuff wrong with it, but I'm not your typical hobbyist who knows how to get in and out of everything.
00:22:24
Speaker
And when I sent in a question about my was, my upper play field doors going into the castle, one of them's not opening.
00:22:33
Speaker
And Lloyd sent back quickly, he said, well, you know, these are the things you need to check for.
00:22:38
Speaker
Boom, boom, boom.
00:22:39
Speaker
And I asked back and even then Butch chimed in and said, well, check out, it's on this, this page in the manual and this is how you take it apart.
00:22:48
Speaker
And I was really impressed that someone high up in the company would actually care about, you know, someone like me.
00:22:56
Speaker
I'm just a, I am one guy who has one game, but was interested enough to say, yeah, we want to make sure that's working.
00:23:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:04
Speaker
It's something that I have to limit myself from doing because I will,
00:23:08
Speaker
I want every customer to be happy regardless of the game.
00:23:12
Speaker
I mean, I've gotten to know friends through pinball where they're like, hey, man, I'm having a problem with my Tron.
00:23:21
Speaker
I'm like, all right, I have a Tron.
00:23:22
Speaker
Here's how to fix it.
00:23:25
Speaker
Let's make it work.
00:23:26
Speaker
Like I said, all pinball is good pinball, and I want people to have fun playing their games.
00:23:31
Speaker
Yeah, well, I think that's a credit to the company.
00:23:36
Speaker
I had a question about designing.
00:23:38
Speaker
So when you're designing, there are different approaches that people can take.
00:23:43
Speaker
They can be the, hey, you're going into the room, you're the designer, you do your thing, and then come out and show us what you're doing with your whitewood.
00:23:51
Speaker
There are other things that are more of a collaborative process of a couple people working on it with one person as the lead.
00:23:58
Speaker
What do you prefer to
00:24:01
Speaker
And what do you foresee as like advantages or disadvantages to different approaches?
00:24:09
Speaker
I see the way I design is I will come up with concepts in a white wood and I will bring in my teammates, Keith and Joe Katz specifically, and talk to them about the concepts that are in my head after I've drawn them out.
00:24:25
Speaker
and make sure those guys will think it's going to be fun and make sure they think they're, you know, see what sort of sparks go off in their brain when they look at that concept when it comes to rules and programming and what would make a fun strategy.
00:24:42
Speaker
So I'm more collaborative in my design process as far as bringing in other guys and talking to them about the ideas than other designers that I've worked with.
00:24:56
Speaker
And I think there are great advantages of it.
00:24:58
Speaker
You know, it's, these guys are all very passionate about pinball and they all want to make the best product.
Collaborative Design Process
00:25:04
Speaker
So I, there, I want them on my team and I want them, their voices to be heard.
00:25:10
Speaker
Yes, I'm the one designing it and I'm the one who's drawing it and putting it together.
00:25:14
Speaker
But I absolutely want to hear their input every step of the way.
00:25:20
Speaker
So when it does come to designing some themes and whatnot, too, do you guys kind of get a say in what you design theme wise?
00:25:26
Speaker
Because I know that there has been talks recently of pinball machines have been scrapped because no one in the company really had a passion for it.
00:25:34
Speaker
And when you guys all seem very passionate about what you do, is there a theme where you can kind of reject and you're just like, it's just not for us kind of thing?
00:25:42
Speaker
Um, absolutely.
00:25:43
Speaker
That's happened, um, with different, different themes that have come along.
00:25:49
Speaker
Um, you know, we haven't been far down the road on the theme and then rejected it.
00:25:53
Speaker
It's been more sitting around the conference table and say, all right, theme X is here.
00:25:58
Speaker
What do people think about it?
00:25:59
Speaker
Theme Y is over here.
00:26:01
Speaker
What do people think about it?
00:26:03
Speaker
Um,
00:26:04
Speaker
And we all generally agree on what themes we think will make a good game.
00:26:11
Speaker
So it's just, it's something that having passion for the project definitely helps and having interest in the project, you know, can make a, can really inspire a game designer and programmers to, to do some, some neat new stuff that's never been done before or apply, uh,
00:26:33
Speaker
their love of that license in a way that probably wouldn't be done in the same way from someone who doesn't care about the license or the product.
00:26:42
Speaker
So what are some of the lessons you learned from your first machine, which by all accounts, Pirates was, it was a shooting for the fences.
00:26:51
Speaker
You're going for a grand slam.
00:26:53
Speaker
There wasn't one gimmick in there.
00:26:56
Speaker
There were about five different things that people said, Hey, that's never been in the machine.
00:27:00
Speaker
What are the things that you learned from that experience?
00:27:03
Speaker
into integrating for your next whitewood your next game um well getting a game getting a whitewood shooting and flipping and that sort of thing is relatively easy taking a whitewood to production is extremely difficult it takes a a mountain of people to make that happen um and so designing
00:27:33
Speaker
mechanisms that, I mean, obviously people know about the three disc and the opening and closing trunk, like those mechanisms functioned in a whitewood and they functioned in prototypes.
00:27:47
Speaker
But there was a lot of tweaking that had to happen to make those happen.
00:27:50
Speaker
And when you have a factory that's trying to screw together 20 games a day, those sort of tweaks on overly complex mechanisms will slow them down.
00:28:02
Speaker
and will make games not reliable in the field.
00:28:05
Speaker
So that's something that, you know, going to take with a grain of salt, the coolest mechanism in the world is cool on a prototype game, but might not work in production.
Prototype to Production Challenges
00:28:16
Speaker
Okay, I definitely see how that would work.
00:28:21
Speaker
Are there, it seems like a lot of the
00:28:26
Speaker
At least with Wonka anyway.
00:28:28
Speaker
It seems a little more streamlined.
00:28:29
Speaker
Like you said, it seems to be, hey, we're trying to get a machine that will work really well on location.
00:28:37
Speaker
And I think that Wonka will be a very recognizable game on location.
00:28:44
Speaker
What are the things that you're thinking of for your next game?
00:28:47
Speaker
And if you can tell me, how do you have a Whitewood that you're working on?
00:28:53
Speaker
I do have a Whitewood.
00:28:55
Speaker
I've been playing it for a couple months now and working on refining it and getting it to production ready status.
00:29:04
Speaker
So working on fun, interesting, fast gameplay.
00:29:12
Speaker
Pirates is very fast and interesting to play.
00:29:19
Speaker
And I think this game will feel
00:29:22
Speaker
different than Pirates.
00:29:24
Speaker
I don't know how much more I can say about it, but it's definitely a different feel in the game than Pirates is.
00:29:33
Speaker
Awesome.
00:29:35
Speaker
Well, we don't want to be asking you what your next title is and all that jazz.
00:29:37
Speaker
We've learned from Franchi we're not supposed to do that, so we're not going to be doing that here.
00:29:43
Speaker
So what has been your favorite thing about working at JJP so far?
00:29:47
Speaker
What has been the, wow, this is amazing?
00:29:50
Speaker
Um, probably the most surreal aspect.
00:29:53
Speaker
I've told this story a couple times.
00:29:55
Speaker
I don't know if I've done it on interviews or not, but working.
00:29:59
Speaker
So as a double degree holding engineer, something I never thought I would do in my life was direct a Hollywood actor.
00:30:08
Speaker
Um, so for Pirates of the Caribbean, when we hired Kevin McNally to do the script, it was a script that I wrote that me personally, um, I wrote the script and then,
00:30:20
Speaker
In the studio, I directed Mr. McNally on how to say jackpot and multi-ball and things like that.
00:30:26
Speaker
And like, Mr. McNally, thank you for taking the time out of performing at Shakespeare's Globe Theater, which he, so he came into the recording studio on his day off from doing, I think it was Macbeth at the Globe Theater.
00:30:39
Speaker
And holy crap, real actor here.
00:30:43
Speaker
Can you please emphasize jackpot with a little more growl in it, you know, and...
00:30:47
Speaker
it was just completely out of this world, you know, something that never in my, in my head as an engineer in school would have thought I would be directing a Hollywood actor.
00:30:59
Speaker
When I don't know if you can say anything to this or not, but was it with working with him?
00:31:04
Speaker
Was there times he just kind of rolled his eyes at you when you're like, he got, it sounded great, but you should do this a little bit differently.
00:31:11
Speaker
Nope.
00:31:11
Speaker
He was completely on board with everything.
00:31:13
Speaker
I mean, we did probably,
00:31:17
Speaker
25 or 30 different recordings of jackpot and he just kept interjecting with new ones and different ones and different emphasis and he was amazing to work with really was passionate about the project even though he wasn't into pinball he was just excited about it and asked me to email him like pictures of the game and how this is going to be used and video clips and stuff like that so he he was super into it that's way awesome
00:31:45
Speaker
Is, um, so is speak like you said with, with the actor, um, sometimes they come in and they're not into pinball.
00:31:52
Speaker
Has there ever been a time where you guys been like, this is our project and they got into it and like, holy crap, this is awesome.
00:31:57
Speaker
And then they wanted to be a part of it as in like, they wanted a machine and, and to get more involved or is it pretty much kind of just business as usual?
00:32:07
Speaker
Um, it's, it definitely happened in pirates for sure.
00:32:13
Speaker
Um,
00:32:15
Speaker
working with Disney and getting the licensing taken care of with them was difficult.
00:32:25
Speaker
I'll leave it there.
00:32:27
Speaker
I mean, I had 14 different people's contact info at Disney that I was working with on a weekly basis.
00:32:33
Speaker
I was doing all of the day-to-day work in the licensing with them, trying to get things approved and such.
00:32:41
Speaker
Once they actually got a game,
00:32:43
Speaker
in their hands and were able to see it and flip it.
00:32:47
Speaker
I got so many emails from people just say, I get it.
00:32:50
Speaker
I understand what you're doing and why you're asking for so much.
00:32:54
Speaker
Because they're used to licensing a lunchbox or a plush toy that has like three sound calls in it.
00:33:01
Speaker
And I was asking for thousands of video clips and stills of actors and
00:33:11
Speaker
you know, trying to get the hand-drawn look for all the actors and they push back on stuff like that.
00:33:16
Speaker
Like, well, we'll have to go and get this approved by all the different actors.
00:33:19
Speaker
I'm like, yeah, you will.
00:33:22
Speaker
And I'm going to ask, I'm going to hold your feet to the fire to make you do that because this is what makes a pinball look good.
00:33:27
Speaker
We want to have as much hand-drawn art and show that we're passionate about this project.
00:33:33
Speaker
And this is what people love to see.
00:33:36
Speaker
So they...
00:33:37
Speaker
The emails I got from them saying, we get it, after getting their hands on the game, was really fulfilling.
00:33:45
Speaker
That they understood and finally saw the passion that went into the project.
00:33:50
Speaker
Yeah, I think by far the...
Licensing Challenges with Major Brands
00:33:53
Speaker
Now, this is me projecting.
00:33:55
Speaker
I've never had to deal with a license, but I can assume that the bigger the license, the more that the licensor has at risk because they've already put in thousands to millions of dollars in building this brand.
00:34:09
Speaker
And they want to make sure that whatever you're doing is going to tell the story that they want to tell, which is why I'm sure that dealing with some of these bigger licenses
00:34:19
Speaker
it can be very challenging for a pinball designer because they're saying, well, we would like to do this, we'd like to do that.
00:34:27
Speaker
And that's why the big licenses like the Star Wars, the Pirates, all these type of licenses that have made billions of dollars for Disney or any other company, that they're pretty jealous about how they're going to present their product.
00:34:44
Speaker
And I'm sure it's the same way with even a classic license.
00:34:49
Speaker
something like Wonka, that they're trying to say, well, because another movie is not coming out anytime soon, we want to make sure whatever you're selling is going to be in keeping with our vision of the brand, the product placement, et cetera.
00:35:04
Speaker
Is that a fair assessment of how to look at it?
00:35:07
Speaker
That is absolutely correct.
00:35:09
Speaker
And looking at it from the license holder's point of view, so Disney, for example, with Pirates,
00:35:18
Speaker
I wanted, and I think most of the pinball community wanted, He's a Pirate, the theme song for Pirates of the Caribbean.
00:35:29
Speaker
And I asked and I presented a case and I pleaded for it.
00:35:34
Speaker
And Disney music holders, which was the group that I had to work with there, said, we're sorry, our hands are tied.
00:35:42
Speaker
Jerry Bruckheimer does not want this to be used in a game.
00:35:46
Speaker
I'm like, well, why does he get to choose that?
00:35:49
Speaker
He doesn't own the music.
00:35:51
Speaker
It's owned by Hans Zimmer.
00:35:54
Speaker
But then taking a step back and realizing that I, from a pinball, a pinball license is a drop in the bucket of the money that
00:36:04
Speaker
Jerry Bruckheimer brings to Disney they're like no we're just not going to ruffle feathers and try to convince Jerry Bruckheimer that that you know he needs to give up his music or his decision here so he personally didn't want the music in the game and that's kind of where it stopped and I asked a couple more times and I was you know
00:36:27
Speaker
I was told no again.
00:36:28
Speaker
Well, I can appreciate it from their standpoint as saying that there are, this is not a, this is not a, this is not a big enough deal for Disney
00:36:38
Speaker
if they said it's already been addressed and they've kind of moved on.
00:36:41
Speaker
That's why they have like style guides and everything like that in a theme.
00:36:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:47
Speaker
I will say that I actually don't have the JJP one yet, but I do have the Stern one and I actually have a friend who made a custom sound package.
00:36:56
Speaker
So I actually have that music.
00:36:59
Speaker
Nice.
00:37:01
Speaker
But I look forward to having right now I have black rose and I have,
00:37:06
Speaker
the stern pirates, and I look forward to at some point in the future getting the JJP one so I can have an all pirates area.
00:37:13
Speaker
That would be fun.
00:37:16
Speaker
So we know that JJP has taken Pirates off the line or is taking it off the line and you guys have the license for the next three years.
00:37:25
Speaker
Are you guys looking at putting it back on the line at some point?
00:37:28
Speaker
Because we've heard that there's still plenty of demand for it, but we just didn't.
00:37:33
Speaker
We wanted to, I guess, clear some of that up.
00:37:35
Speaker
Right.
00:37:36
Speaker
Officially, the company has not stated that we will never make Pirates again.
00:37:41
Speaker
So...
00:37:43
Speaker
I'll leave it at that.
00:37:44
Speaker
It makes sense to me that if there is still demand, that we would run the game again.
00:37:50
Speaker
But that is not my decision.
00:37:53
Speaker
You know, the decision was that Wonka was ready to go.
00:37:55
Speaker
Let's get that on the line.
00:37:57
Speaker
And we'll probably see where we are after Wonka has sold thousands of units.
00:38:03
Speaker
Yeah, I have a feeling that it's nice to actually mix things up.
00:38:08
Speaker
We know how many releases Wizard of Oz has gone through.
00:38:12
Speaker
And being able to go back and say, hey, there's more demand.
00:38:14
Speaker
Let's make more.
00:38:16
Speaker
I would be shocked if at some point Jersey Jack doesn't do the same thing.
00:38:22
Speaker
It's like, okay, we've made tons of Wonkas.
00:38:25
Speaker
Now let's go back and make a few of these other ones so we can sell them too.
00:38:28
Speaker
Because there are a lot of these games that are kind of a slow growth game.
00:38:33
Speaker
where people, they get it and they don't realize how much of demand there will be until they've kind of moved on.
00:38:40
Speaker
And that's the beauty of modern manufacturing techniques that you can actually go back and do a quick run of 100, 200, 300 to fulfill the demand.
00:38:50
Speaker
So I'm sure that that, this is me talking, not you, but I would be shocked if we didn't see another 500 run of pirates in the next year.
00:39:02
Speaker
So I guess that pretty much wraps it up for the questions that we had for you, Eric.
00:39:06
Speaker
Is there anything else you want to talk about?
00:39:07
Speaker
Or is there another question that you had, Scott?
00:39:10
Speaker
I'm nothing else that comes to mind that I need to get off my chest.
00:39:14
Speaker
So Scott, if you have another question, I'm still open.
00:39:18
Speaker
Let's see.
00:39:20
Speaker
Let me take a second.
00:39:20
Speaker
Okay.
00:39:21
Speaker
Here's a question.
00:39:22
Speaker
Have you ever been to over the rainbow?
00:39:25
Speaker
Oh, yes.
00:39:25
Speaker
I have not legitimately been to over the rainbow.
00:39:28
Speaker
I helped, you know, when we were play testing it.
00:39:31
Speaker
When we made the program, programmed it so that when you hit one button, it started somewhere with a rainbow.
00:39:36
Speaker
That was fun.
00:39:37
Speaker
But the closest I've gotten to on my personal game at home was six of the jewels.
00:39:44
Speaker
So have you been to Pure Imagination then yet?
00:39:47
Speaker
Well, that's not in the game yet.
00:39:49
Speaker
So not yet.
00:39:50
Speaker
Okay.
00:39:50
Speaker
He's been there in his mind.
00:39:53
Speaker
He has been there.
00:39:54
Speaker
Right.
00:39:55
Speaker
Actually, while we're talking right now, the programmers...
00:39:58
Speaker
basically there's there's six programmers that are working on the game um and five of them are doing a wizard doing their own wizard modes or wizard mode is concepts so that stuff is coming together right now as we're recording it and yesterday i got to play one which was a whole lot of fun um and there's two others that are active and playable in the game so i'm
00:40:24
Speaker
I'm excited for the next software release.
00:40:26
Speaker
When we start the production, it'll have those wizard modes in it, and it's going to be a lot of fun.
00:40:31
Speaker
Well, cool.
00:40:31
Speaker
I think that's all the questions we had.
00:40:33
Speaker
So we really appreciate having you on, Eric, and taking time out of your busy schedule to sit down with us and answer these us little guys questions that we had for you.
00:40:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:44
Speaker
No, we really appreciate it.
00:40:46
Speaker
We know that this is your job.
00:40:48
Speaker
This is our hobby, but we appreciate that you actually are taking time off, valuable time to actually talk to us on our hobby.
00:40:55
Speaker
And I certainly look forward to meeting you at some point in the future and getting you to sign my Pirates Translite when I pick it up.
00:41:04
Speaker
Nice.
00:41:05
Speaker
I will absolutely do that.
00:41:06
Speaker
Actually, I carry Playfield decal, apron decals.
00:41:14
Speaker
generally with me at every show.
00:41:15
Speaker
And if I meet someone who has a pirates, I'm more than happy to sign an apron decal for them and they can put it on their game when they get home just because I'm not in the factory every day.
00:41:24
Speaker
So I'm not able to sign games as easily.
00:41:26
Speaker
But this is sort of a way that from my Chicago office and at shows and stuff, I can still sign people's games for them.
00:41:34
Speaker
So it's awesome.
00:41:36
Speaker
Life of a rock star, right?
00:41:37
Speaker
Thank you.
00:41:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:41
Speaker
Well, again,
00:41:42
Speaker
Thanks again.
00:41:43
Speaker
We really appreciate everything you're doing for it.
00:41:44
Speaker
And I am ecstatic that we have new blood going into the industry that is really pushing
00:41:53
Speaker
pushing pinball forward and certainly appreciate what the, the legends, the legendary designers have done up to this point.
00:42:01
Speaker
And I think it's time to pass the baton in a figurative way to the new guys and say, now let's work together and see when you guys take a new design, let's see what the old guys can do.
00:42:13
Speaker
And then back and forth.
00:42:14
Speaker
I love this back and forth that you guys have that will give us more things that we haven't seen yet in pinball.
00:42:21
Speaker
Yeah, man.
00:42:22
Speaker
Totally.
00:42:24
Speaker
Well, awesome.
00:42:25
Speaker
Thanks again, Eric.
00:42:25
Speaker
We appreciate it.
00:42:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:27
Speaker
Thanks guys.
00:42:27
Speaker
It was a pleasure.
00:42:28
Speaker
Thanks.
00:42:31
Speaker
All right, Scott, now that we've wrapped up that interview, what were some of the takeaways that you had with it?
00:42:36
Speaker
I think the takeaway is that the people involved in the pinball industry are just as passionate about it.
00:42:44
Speaker
And probably even more so than even us casual fans or even rapid fans.
00:42:51
Speaker
I think that it shows that there are certainly business aspects that go along.
00:42:57
Speaker
And this is the challenge with a lot of times what happens is when we look at something, we're looking at it from how it affects us or a certain fan population.
00:43:08
Speaker
But really, there are so many components to just running a business and to trying to stay afloat that it's so challenging for them to walk that line.
00:43:18
Speaker
But I think that in the end, they're trying to put out the best product and they want to stand behind it.
00:43:23
Speaker
You can hear by his voice how excited he is to be part of pinball, which is really challenging if it's your hobby and also your job, because eventually at some point your hobby becomes work.
00:43:37
Speaker
And that's a really challenging thing to maintain.
00:43:41
Speaker
What did you think?
00:43:43
Speaker
I agree.
00:43:43
Speaker
I think that between, well, not only that, but we kind of talked about family and being able to balance that and still be able to enjoy the hobby.
00:43:52
Speaker
You know, I'm always afraid if someone gets into this hobby as a profession and you're behind the curtain and whatever happens behind there that we don't know, it kind of puts a bitter taste in your mouth.
00:44:03
Speaker
But it sounds like, like you said, a lot of these people, it's a passion and it's just amplified through it.
00:44:09
Speaker
And so it was kind of cool to see that.
00:44:12
Speaker
It sounds like they have some more operated focused ambitions, which is kind of cool because I feel like no one really competes with Stern in that market.
00:44:24
Speaker
So it will be good to see what happens with Wonka.
00:44:28
Speaker
Yeah, so I would say that certainly there are aspects of it.
00:44:32
Speaker
It did sound like they were trying to push to be a little less boutique-type pinball and...
00:44:42
Speaker
trying to be a little more mass marketing.
00:44:46
Speaker
I'm not sure that it's going to be a radical change from what their path is, but you're right.
00:44:52
Speaker
I think they are certainly trying to capture the location aspect of pinball that really Stern has dominated forever because for the last five years, when Wizard of Oz jumped into the market with Jersey Jack pinball,
00:45:11
Speaker
location pinball was almost non-existent.
00:45:15
Speaker
It really had just evaporated to the point where it was a home collection market.
00:45:22
Speaker
But I think that we've seen at least a resurgence of location pinball.
00:45:28
Speaker
And I think that they are wisely adapting to market trends.
00:45:33
Speaker
I agree.
00:45:34
Speaker
You know, and after everything that I've heard, you know, just to recap, if you guys didn't know, we were on head to head pinball podcast last week.
00:45:42
Speaker
We got to talk about Wonka.
00:45:44
Speaker
But the problem was, is we kind of was talking about it as it was being revealed.
00:45:49
Speaker
And so we didn't get to see everything that was thrown at the production of this.
00:45:54
Speaker
I mean, it was amazing that special when lit did the did the panel discussion live.
00:45:59
Speaker
Buffalo did the live stream, which was amazing.
00:46:02
Speaker
And straight down the middle had all the fantastic behind the scenes footage.
00:46:07
Speaker
But we were trying to cram to record the show because we recorded it, what, an hour and a half after the stream had started?
00:46:14
Speaker
And so I think some of it kind of fell loose in translation, so to speak.
00:46:20
Speaker
And so a lot of the things...
00:46:24
Speaker
reveal and mid gameplay and so yeah this was really a a gut first impression which is what a lot of people uh lock in their decision on on how they like a game and it takes a lot to really change their entrenched position so i i still stand by my initial first take in on wonka
00:46:47
Speaker
I think it'll be a great game.
00:46:48
Speaker
I think if you're a Lawler fan, I think it will still sell tons of units.
00:46:53
Speaker
And I think this could be another evergreen title that they can go back to.
00:46:58
Speaker
Really, I wouldn't be surprised if they are able to put out a new machine and manufacture that for four to five months, and then the other seven months go back and pick some of these evergreen titles.
00:47:14
Speaker
work on Wizard of Oz, probably do some more pirates because I know pirates were underproduced compared to the demand.
00:47:23
Speaker
And at some point, I wouldn't be surprised if, hey, Dialed In gets another role because, hey, it's a great game.
00:47:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:32
Speaker
So the thing I was going to say was, is, you know, some of the complaints have been coming out is artwork and the artwork's the same on the play field across all of them.
00:47:40
Speaker
And so I didn't really get it until I saw the side artwork really on the standards.
00:47:44
Speaker
I know that they're focusing it towards an operator market.
00:47:47
Speaker
So it's not that big of an issue if there's not really artwork, artwork on it, because when you go to see pinball machines or play them on location, they're usually in between each other.
00:47:57
Speaker
And so you're not really going to see the side stuff.
00:48:00
Speaker
And from what I'm listening to is a lot of people that like this title are going to go with either the LE or the collector's edition.
00:48:08
Speaker
So it doesn't really matter on the side artwork on that stuff because it's going to be in your home.
00:48:12
Speaker
And so that's going to be nicer compared to
00:48:15
Speaker
the SE and so I think they're smart with what they're doing.
00:48:18
Speaker
They're not really taken away from the gameplay.
00:48:21
Speaker
The key and I think I think Jack knows this.
00:48:24
Speaker
I think everyone down there knows this.
00:48:26
Speaker
The key to this is just hitting those those markers.
00:48:29
Speaker
Like they said, they want to do the 60 days really, you know, between the showing of the game to out the door.
00:48:37
Speaker
And I really hope that they can keep to that.
00:48:38
Speaker
I really think that's one of the secrets to competing in this market on a stern level.
00:48:44
Speaker
I agree.
00:48:44
Speaker
And side art is, of all the art that I care about, side art is the last factor.
00:48:53
Speaker
Yes, it's interesting, it's cool, but all of my pins are lined up next to each other.
00:48:59
Speaker
The only one I actually see is Attack from Mars remake because that's the first thing I see when I walk down the stairs.
00:49:05
Speaker
But all the other ones, I never see the side art.
00:49:09
Speaker
And so really, I care about play field art and back glass.
00:49:13
Speaker
But ultimately, that is the first impression.
00:49:17
Speaker
And then once you start playing the game, a lot of that stuff kind of disappears.
00:49:23
Speaker
If it's fun, if it brings you in, but ultimately it is how the game plays.
00:49:28
Speaker
And if it's fun enough and it brings you into that experience, whatever you're looking for.
00:49:34
Speaker
I agree.
00:49:35
Speaker
And honestly, I think between me and you and Martin, we were kind of the adage, um, not a home title yet, but getting our hands on it's what's going to determine this.
00:49:45
Speaker
I like the theme.
00:49:47
Speaker
I know that you and Martin weren't so hip on it, but I really think that this is a game that if it plays as buttery smooth as everyone's claiming, it could be quite the fun game to have.
00:49:59
Speaker
Well, I, and I, and there's nothing wrong with saying that, um,
00:50:04
Speaker
you know, the game is not for my home collection.
00:50:07
Speaker
No, not at all.
00:50:07
Speaker
I will still put, you know, $20, $50 in this game over time just on location if it's there or go to someone's house and play.
00:50:17
Speaker
I know two people.
00:50:18
Speaker
I know one person who actually is getting the collector's edition or planning on it and one person who's getting the LE edition.
00:50:24
Speaker
So I'll definitely get my hands on it.
00:50:29
Speaker
And I think that that is part of looking at the market and saying, you can't buy every game.
00:50:35
Speaker
If you did, Stern has four games a year.
00:50:38
Speaker
Let's just assume JJP is going to stick to one game a year.
00:50:40
Speaker
So that's five.
00:50:41
Speaker
Spooky every 18 months or so, that's six.
00:50:45
Speaker
And then there's going to be other players in the market that are going to be doing things.
00:50:50
Speaker
Chicago Gaming Company.
00:50:51
Speaker
And so
00:50:52
Speaker
I can't buy six or seven games a year.
00:50:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:57
Speaker
So you, you have to pick what you, what you identify with, what, what draws to you.
00:51:02
Speaker
And that's the reason why they do different, different themes.
00:51:06
Speaker
And so, Hey, that speaks to me.
00:51:08
Speaker
That one doesn't.
00:51:08
Speaker
Okay.
00:51:09
Speaker
Move up.
00:51:10
Speaker
Yep.
00:51:11
Speaker
Well, speaking of moving on, maybe we should move on to news.
00:51:14
Speaker
I think everyone's heard enough about Wonka.
00:51:16
Speaker
We're just excited to now finally get our hands on it.
00:51:19
Speaker
But moving on to the news, have you checked this out?
00:51:21
Speaker
The new deep root Raza teaser trailer?
00:51:25
Speaker
I did.
00:51:26
Speaker
And I think that it's certainly possible that this will be hilarious.
00:51:34
Speaker
Um,
00:51:36
Speaker
I think that in pinball, a lot of things that have gone right for Stern in trying to go for music pins, trying to go for movie franchises, trying to throw in the occasional oddball, but for the most part, and what you have Mustang in there, you could probably throw Black Knight in there, but they're all pretty mainstream themes.
00:52:03
Speaker
which are completely different than the approach of Williams in the nineties.
00:52:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:07
Speaker
Williams in the nineties had a lot of these campy tongue in cheek.
00:52:12
Speaker
Hey, we're just having fun and we're not taking ourselves too seriously themes.
00:52:17
Speaker
Um,
00:52:18
Speaker
And if it's done right, then the humor can be fun.
00:52:22
Speaker
If it's done wrong and it falls flat, we've all been to that movie that thought it was hilarious.
00:52:30
Speaker
And it's just painful when you're trying, when you can tell they're trying to be funny, but it lands flat.
00:52:37
Speaker
So I think that there's certainly that potential here.
00:52:40
Speaker
However, I think it looks great.
00:52:42
Speaker
I think it looks fun.
00:52:45
Speaker
I like the quirkiness of J-pop.
00:52:47
Speaker
And let's just throw out his bad business adventure on the side.
00:52:53
Speaker
If you look at his playfield designs, they're fun.
00:52:58
Speaker
And they're certainly innovative.
00:53:00
Speaker
My friend has a Circus Volterra, which is absolutely beautiful.
00:53:03
Speaker
And I told him that you can never sell that game because you'll never find another one that is in that great condition.
00:53:12
Speaker
And I asked him, he has the best of Bally Williams of the 90s.
00:53:18
Speaker
And I asked him, hey, what games do people play the most?
00:53:22
Speaker
And he said, they come over and they always play two games the most.
00:53:26
Speaker
They play Whitewater and they play Circus Voltaire.
00:53:29
Speaker
And it's something's different and distinct about those two games.
00:53:34
Speaker
And I think if they can capture that, I think there is a market for that.
00:53:37
Speaker
And if Deep Root is able to resurrect some of that Bally Williams campiness and the fun in pinball, I think that is an underserved and untapped market right now.
00:53:48
Speaker
Yep.
00:53:49
Speaker
Well, and looking at the video itself, the artwork looks really good.
00:53:54
Speaker
And so I hope that translates into the game as well.
00:53:56
Speaker
I hope that we can see these as LCD animations and that everything else follows right in suit.
00:54:03
Speaker
Honestly, to wrap this all up on DeepR, I'm just ready.
00:54:07
Speaker
I'm ready to see something.
00:54:09
Speaker
I like the teaser trailer.
00:54:11
Speaker
We've been hearing this for a year and a half now, I think.
00:54:15
Speaker
And I'm ready to see behind the curtain.
00:54:19
Speaker
They've got a star-studded cast.
00:54:21
Speaker
They've got games that everyone sounds like they're going to enjoy.
00:54:26
Speaker
It's time.
00:54:26
Speaker
So that's my hope for them.
00:54:30
Speaker
I hope so.
00:54:31
Speaker
I certainly hope they're able to do something.
00:54:33
Speaker
And really, even if they come into the market, and I know they're talking as if they're going to outproduce Stern,
00:54:41
Speaker
I think if they are able to do something that JJP is doing, maybe somewhere between JJP and Stern, because it sounds like DeepRoot is going to try to be more of a volume distributor.
00:54:53
Speaker
I think that will certainly go a long way.
00:54:57
Speaker
Hopefully it will open up the market a little bit.
00:55:00
Speaker
I agree.
00:55:02
Speaker
So today I was listening to the Slap Save Pinball podcast, and it sounds like they've got a new segment on here.
00:55:08
Speaker
Have you heard this new segment with Christopher Franchi?
00:55:11
Speaker
You know, I haven't, so fill me in.
00:55:14
Speaker
So it is Around the Playfield with Christopher Franchi and his dog, Barlow.
00:55:19
Speaker
But no, it sounded really good.
00:55:21
Speaker
Franchi went off.
00:55:22
Speaker
It was edited really well.
00:55:23
Speaker
I don't know if Franchi is doing all the little movie clips that went in with it, but it sounded really good.
00:55:30
Speaker
It was it was really fun.
00:55:32
Speaker
And I thought he did an awesome job playing off of his dog with all the the
00:55:38
Speaker
barking and whatnot and the gruffing.
00:55:40
Speaker
Um, if you haven't listened to it, I don't want to spoil any of it.
00:55:43
Speaker
Go to slap save pin, uh, pinball podcast, check it out.
00:55:47
Speaker
Uh, good episode, not only for Franchi, but slap save themselves.
00:55:52
Speaker
I know that Chris has walked away and now they have Matt on there with Jason and it sounds good.
00:55:57
Speaker
Uh, I think they're trying to find some of their footing.
00:55:59
Speaker
Uh, it's a little different to go from one host to another or co-host.
00:56:03
Speaker
And so it's, it's starting to flow really well.
00:56:06
Speaker
And so, um,
00:56:07
Speaker
Congratulations, guys.
00:56:09
Speaker
Sounds good.
00:56:10
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's good.
00:56:11
Speaker
Chris obviously is one of the most vocal, passionate, opinionated guys out there, and I think that's good.
00:56:18
Speaker
You can bring that to the pinball marketplace, and people like seeing that.
00:56:26
Speaker
Everybody brings their personality.
00:56:28
Speaker
Chris brings a personality.
00:56:30
Speaker
Lyman Sheets has his own personality.
00:56:33
Speaker
It's not that vocal.
00:56:34
Speaker
He's kind of that...
00:56:36
Speaker
programmer in the corner who is willing to just do his job and not and not be the over-the-top personality guy and then there's john borg who's the you know who's the skateboarder guy so hey it's always good to see a little more about these people that we've grown to be fans of and their work um if they're able to put out podcast content that allows people to see them more god bless
00:57:02
Speaker
And speaking of people putting up podcast content that is kind of pinball celebrity, Raymond Davidson put out his own pinball podcast.
00:57:11
Speaker
He's on episode three right now.
00:57:13
Speaker
He is the number one ranked IFPA player in the whole world.
00:57:19
Speaker
And his points aren't even close to the next, to second place.
00:57:22
Speaker
He's like 1100 plus.
00:57:23
Speaker
And the next guy's like 930.
00:57:28
Speaker
So he decided to make his own pinball podcast about tournaments and strategy.
00:57:34
Speaker
It's really good.
00:57:36
Speaker
If you're into that kind of stuff, check it out.
00:57:40
Speaker
Might get some tips, might get some pointers on how to help with your next competition.
00:57:44
Speaker
Now, if you think about this, this is pretty amazing.
00:57:49
Speaker
I don't know of any other...
00:57:53
Speaker
competitive environment where the top players readily give away advice.
00:58:01
Speaker
They're telling you how you can beat them if you're willing to listen to them.
00:58:06
Speaker
Now,
00:58:06
Speaker
they're also confident in their abilities and they say, look, I'm still going to beat you even if you have all my knowledge.
00:58:13
Speaker
But that's kind of an amazing thing when you think about how transparent the top players are.
00:58:20
Speaker
And Bone's been doing his tutorials for years.
00:58:22
Speaker
Rayman now is doing his own thing and he's going to be telling you, hey, here's the tips of the trade and this is the way I approach a game.
00:58:34
Speaker
That's
00:58:36
Speaker
really unheard of in any other competitive setting.
00:58:39
Speaker
I can't think of anything else that would really come close.
00:58:42
Speaker
What do you think?
00:58:43
Speaker
I totally agree.
00:58:44
Speaker
It's unheard of on any sport level.
00:58:48
Speaker
So it's very awesome that people want to win based off of their skill and not necessarily knowing a shortcut.
00:58:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:57
Speaker
Basically they're not, they're not taking the easy way out.
00:59:00
Speaker
They're going to say, look, correct.
00:59:02
Speaker
Like we're all playing by the same rules and certainly knowing the rule set certainly plays to your advantage.
00:59:08
Speaker
And I'm one of those guys where I have not put in the time to learn a lot of these rule sets.
00:59:15
Speaker
I'm like Martin from head to head that way.
00:59:17
Speaker
I, I know enough to be dangerous, but not enough to really blow up a game.
00:59:23
Speaker
If I'm playing against someone who knows what
00:59:26
Speaker
So next we have a Black Knight sighting in Salt Lake City at our local bar slash arcade that we have.
00:59:35
Speaker
We have a Black Knight Pro.
00:59:39
Speaker
I haven't had a chance to to play it personally.
00:59:42
Speaker
Have you been able to go out, Josh, and see it?
00:59:45
Speaker
I haven't, but our former champion, state champion, Stephen Strom, as soon as he found out I was there, he lives in Elko, Nevada, which is what?
00:59:55
Speaker
Is it a two hour drive, three hour drive?
00:59:58
Speaker
Yeah, it's between two and three hours.
01:00:01
Speaker
he just was like, I'm going to be there.
01:00:02
Speaker
And we're, and the funny part is, is, um, he travels up to salt Lake for various reasons and he just was out here.
01:00:09
Speaker
So he's like, gosh, dang it.
01:00:11
Speaker
I got to come out and play it.
01:00:12
Speaker
And next thing I know on Facebook, he's taking pictures and posting and saying, this game is amazing.
01:00:19
Speaker
And so there was plenty of comments, uh, on the black night and they all seem to be positive.
01:00:25
Speaker
Um,
01:00:26
Speaker
I not to say that's a bad like not shock or anything.
01:00:29
Speaker
It's a Steve Ritchie.
01:00:30
Speaker
So it's definitely going to be killer.
01:00:32
Speaker
But one of the general themes that keeps coming back from the pro is I'm going to try to do this in my best Arnold Schwarzenegger voice.
01:00:41
Speaker
Ready for this?
01:00:41
Speaker
Go ahead.
01:00:42
Speaker
It's totally brutal.
01:00:45
Speaker
So that was terrible.
01:00:47
Speaker
That was terrible.
01:00:50
Speaker
But everyone's loving it.
01:00:52
Speaker
They say that it's, it's got a lot of good gameplay there, but it's also kicking your butt because you've got to decide what you're going to hit, but it's also got the flow.
01:01:01
Speaker
So you don't want to stop.
01:01:03
Speaker
So do you know what it feels like?
01:01:05
Speaker
Huh?
01:01:07
Speaker
It feels like mortal combat.
01:01:10
Speaker
No, I'm serious.
01:01:11
Speaker
It feels like that that's what they're going for.
01:01:15
Speaker
You're going for a brutal game.
01:01:20
Speaker
You're going for this high octane, high energy game.
01:01:26
Speaker
And yes, it's going to be fast.
01:01:27
Speaker
And yes, it's going to be brutal.
01:01:29
Speaker
But it has that feel of Mortal Kombat.
01:01:33
Speaker
And so...
01:01:34
Speaker
I think they certainly got the tone right.
01:01:37
Speaker
I, I can't imagine a different way of doing the black night.
01:01:42
Speaker
And so they captured exactly what people like about the black night.
01:01:48
Speaker
I agree.
01:01:49
Speaker
And I think it looks like I said, you know, there was a lot of talk from the streams that looked like it was a right flipper dominated game.
01:01:56
Speaker
I wasn't getting that from the comments either.
01:01:57
Speaker
It looks like it's pretty well-rounded in what you can do with both flippers.
01:02:02
Speaker
So, well, again, this is,
01:02:03
Speaker
This is a game that you need to have very similar elements to Black Knight and Black Knight 2000.
01:02:13
Speaker
So they have to at least make it fit the theme.
01:02:19
Speaker
And so if they did a radical change of the play field, it really wouldn't be the Black Knight.
01:02:25
Speaker
You wouldn't feel that same connection.
01:02:28
Speaker
And the people who really are into this game or excited about this game, they played the Black Knight.
01:02:34
Speaker
They played Black Knight 2000.
01:02:36
Speaker
And now they are excited to have the next release.
01:02:41
Speaker
I agree.
01:02:42
Speaker
Well, and I just, like I said, I can't wait to get my hands on it.
01:02:45
Speaker
We'll have to do something here soon.
01:02:46
Speaker
I'll have to get my butt up there and we'll have to play it.
01:02:48
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:48
Speaker
So I did just Google how long it would take to get from Elko, Nevada to Kito's Brewing.
01:02:55
Speaker
And it's three hours, 27 minutes.
01:02:57
Speaker
Nice.
01:02:59
Speaker
Thank you for making the travel, Steven.
01:03:00
Speaker
That is, yes.
01:03:02
Speaker
Now that is commitment, my friend.
01:03:04
Speaker
That's the reason why he's the state champ, because it would take me about 40 minutes to get to Kito's and I still haven't been up there.
01:03:11
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:12
Speaker
And it's a three-hour and small drive for me as well, but I haven't run out there yet, so I guess I can't make that same.
01:03:19
Speaker
So do you follow the strictly custom pinballs that Jake Danzing has put on Facebook?
01:03:25
Speaker
I have.
01:03:26
Speaker
done some custom pinballs re-themes there are some of them that i think are amazing looking and it certainly i i love i love a re-theme especially when it's a passion project when you usually have the the lcd or the the color dmd it's a little more difficult because there's some programming issues that don't just readily
01:03:49
Speaker
translate to a re-theme, but I certainly appreciate the passion project of someone if they say, look, I want to make this machine.
01:03:59
Speaker
Well, this last week in that group, the Strictly Custom Pinball Machines, it has been blowing up with a new homebrew.
01:04:07
Speaker
Brian Soares, along with professional wrestler Matt Hardy's wife, Jessica Hardy, took a Stern Mustang and they rethemed the whole game from top to bottom, Code Everything.
01:04:20
Speaker
into Matt Hardy's expedition for gold.
01:04:23
Speaker
And it's really cool because they surprised him with it.
01:04:28
Speaker
We'll put the video in the show notes.
01:04:30
Speaker
But this game has been done more professionally than some of the other manufacturers that are putting games out there right now.
01:04:39
Speaker
And I'm not going to pick on anyone.
01:04:40
Speaker
But it's crazy because the way that he did this game is...
01:04:46
Speaker
it's got black light integrated with a lot of greens and purples.
01:04:49
Speaker
And so there's a part where like it kind of shuts off the lights and does kind of black light.
01:04:54
Speaker
And it's just the codes all there.
01:04:57
Speaker
It's all Matt Hardy.
01:04:59
Speaker
You're working on instead of collecting the Mustangs, you're collecting the different titles from the different wrestling groups out there.
01:05:07
Speaker
I'm sorry.
01:05:07
Speaker
I don't follow wrestling very much, so I don't fully understand the,
01:05:11
Speaker
everything behind it, but the artwork's all custom.
01:05:14
Speaker
I mean, this thing is beautiful and it's just crazy.
01:05:17
Speaker
Uh, the love and effort that went into it.
01:05:20
Speaker
And even more cool is how much Matt Hardy appreciated it from his family.
01:05:25
Speaker
And so a couple of videos on there between gameplay and showing off, um, Matt being surprised with it.
01:05:33
Speaker
Fantastic.
01:05:34
Speaker
Absolutely cool.
01:05:35
Speaker
I would love to see Tommy Skinner gives hand on this game.
01:05:38
Speaker
because he is so into professional wrestling.
01:05:42
Speaker
He loves it.
01:05:44
Speaker
He is a great pinball player, and I would love to see how he feels about it.
01:05:50
Speaker
What you're saying about a custom game, and that's not too surprising to say that, hey, a one-off game, someone can throw the kitchen sink at it.
01:05:58
Speaker
They can do a billion things to it that look higher end than your standard run-of-the-mill release.
01:06:06
Speaker
And that's because they're not...
01:06:08
Speaker
This is what custom car people do.
01:06:12
Speaker
is they take a car and then they put $50,000 into it and they could probably sell it for 45, you know, so, so they're never going to make their money off it.
01:06:23
Speaker
Um, because there's like, no, I want this.
01:06:26
Speaker
I want the Chrome.
01:06:27
Speaker
I want the laser.
01:06:29
Speaker
I want the bubble machine.
01:06:31
Speaker
I want, you know, I want the monkey on the chain, you know, all these kinds of crazy things that you just wouldn't be able to do if you're doing a mass production game.
01:06:41
Speaker
And so,
01:06:42
Speaker
That doesn't surprise me, but yes, it does look fantastic.
01:06:45
Speaker
It is certainly high polish and high gloss.
01:06:48
Speaker
And if this is someone's passion project, then, hey, I think it's amazing.
01:06:53
Speaker
I love seeing these types of things.
01:06:56
Speaker
Well, that wraps it up for our news notes that we have.
01:07:00
Speaker
I wanted to do a couple more things before we shut it down.
01:07:03
Speaker
I want to do a quick shout out to Randy Bowman.
01:07:06
Speaker
He reached out to us after last episode and said that he listens to podcasts on player FM and he knows that we weren't on there and he enjoys our podcast.
01:07:16
Speaker
He had been just listening via SoundCloud.
01:07:18
Speaker
And so he asked to help us out and he got us on player FM.
01:07:22
Speaker
So we really appreciate that Randy for doing that.
01:07:25
Speaker
And he also wanted to know they appreciates that we keep it family friendly.
01:07:29
Speaker
So.
01:07:31
Speaker
Well, there you go.
01:07:33
Speaker
No, I appreciate that.
01:07:34
Speaker
And you know what?
01:07:36
Speaker
The thing is with all these podcasts is you just have to find out there's so many options out there.
01:07:42
Speaker
And there are so many, you know, just think of it as tables at a cafeteria and
01:07:48
Speaker
You can find your group, like which group you identify with, which group you gel with and you like their take.
01:07:57
Speaker
And that's the beautiful part of having podcasts is that there are so many just you can find your thing.
01:08:03
Speaker
This is our thing.
01:08:04
Speaker
And so I love that there are at least a few people at our table.
01:08:10
Speaker
And, you know, also shop around.
01:08:11
Speaker
There's lots of awesome tables out there that I appreciate what they do.
01:08:17
Speaker
Well, and we received an email this week.
01:08:20
Speaker
So I kind of gave you the heads up on it, but I didn't really tell you what was in it.
01:08:23
Speaker
So shall I read it to you and see what your thoughts are?
01:08:27
Speaker
So lay it on me.
01:08:28
Speaker
Okay, this is from Steven Haberman.
01:08:32
Speaker
He said, I heard you on head to head.
01:08:34
Speaker
Would love to hear more about your thoughts on games coming into your home that aren't family friendly.
01:08:38
Speaker
I have a faith based life and though my wife would not fight me on any games coming in.
01:08:43
Speaker
I have a four year old daughter and she scares easily.
01:08:47
Speaker
I would prefer devil or demon themes not to be in the home.
01:08:51
Speaker
And I've been in the hobby for three years, though I can only fit three to four games.
01:08:55
Speaker
I have swapped through about 14 at this point.
01:08:58
Speaker
Just wanted to know if you keep scary games out of the house and or if not, do the kids play them?
01:09:06
Speaker
Okay, so you and I both have a kid around the same age.
01:09:10
Speaker
My oldest is eight.
01:09:12
Speaker
How old's your oldest?
01:09:14
Speaker
Eight.
01:09:15
Speaker
Yeah, so same age.
01:09:17
Speaker
We've got them together and they both play together.
01:09:21
Speaker
You know what?
01:09:22
Speaker
Here's the challenge with kids playing games is that they...
01:09:28
Speaker
They will play them occasionally, but for the most part, they're going to be playing, you know, if you're down there and you're playing a game, they may come down.
01:09:37
Speaker
And as they get older, they will probably start understanding more if you're into the games and they'll start saying, Oh, maybe I want to play this.
01:09:46
Speaker
Maybe I want to be able to spend some time with that on this, on this weird hobby.
01:09:53
Speaker
That is most people don't even know exists anymore.
01:09:56
Speaker
Yeah.
01:09:56
Speaker
Um,
01:09:57
Speaker
So when it comes to themes, the way I look at it, there's so many games out there that I would absolutely play and I would love.
01:10:06
Speaker
I have said it before.
01:10:08
Speaker
I grew up with Iron Maiden.
01:10:10
Speaker
My first concert was an Iron Maiden concert when I was 13 and I snuck out and I told my parents I was going to watch movies at my friend's house.
01:10:18
Speaker
So went to that concert.
01:10:21
Speaker
It was a crazy story.
01:10:23
Speaker
And I would love to have an Iron Maid pinball machine.
01:10:26
Speaker
That being said, I look at that and say, yeah, I've got an eight-year-old, a six-year-old, and a four-year-old.
01:10:33
Speaker
And I think it's going to be a little too intense for them.
01:10:37
Speaker
So it's not one that I would put in the house at this time.
01:10:42
Speaker
I understand that as we get older, we kind of see either the camp of it or just be able to have fun with it.
01:10:52
Speaker
But there are also themes that I wouldn't put in my house because like The Walking Dead, I think The Walking Dead is a fantastic game.
01:11:02
Speaker
But man, those that that color DMD coloring of that is a little cringe worthy at time.
01:11:11
Speaker
And I and a it completely fits the theme of the of the game.
01:11:16
Speaker
Yeah, but it's it's just too much for me.
01:11:19
Speaker
And so when I'm selecting games, I try to select games that anybody who comes through the door
01:11:27
Speaker
is going to be comfortable.
01:11:29
Speaker
Now, everybody chooses their own way of setting up their game room.
01:11:34
Speaker
There are certainly a lot of alternative trance lights that are very risque.
01:11:42
Speaker
And I'm sure that there are tons of people who have those type of things.
01:11:46
Speaker
And that's just how they set up their game room.
01:11:50
Speaker
So I,
01:11:52
Speaker
I think it's just your personal approach.
01:11:54
Speaker
Your personal approach is, Hey, what works for me and my family?
01:11:59
Speaker
You certainly don't want to pick a game that will cause friction with your family.
01:12:06
Speaker
I agree.
01:12:08
Speaker
And I know people who have sold games, they bought a game.
01:12:11
Speaker
And even if, even if it's just campy or maybe a little bit kind of raise your eyebrow,
01:12:19
Speaker
But the one thing is this is stereotypically one person who has a passion and then the partner or spouse usually tolerates it.
01:12:31
Speaker
And if you find something that your partner or spouse is not really into, that's just one more thing that makes it more challenging to own this expensive box of lights that you put in your house that you could put a down payment on a car on.
01:12:49
Speaker
Yeah.
01:12:50
Speaker
So that's my take on it.
01:12:53
Speaker
I have really selected things.
01:12:56
Speaker
The most risque theme I have is Black Rose.
01:12:59
Speaker
And for the most part, it really is very, you know, I would say G slash PG.
01:13:09
Speaker
What is your approach when you're picking out games?
01:13:10
Speaker
Yeah.
01:13:11
Speaker
So my approach is to actually sit down with my wife and we kind of go through the possible candidates of pinball machines that come into our house.
01:13:19
Speaker
And we talk about...
01:13:21
Speaker
I actually go and kind of study the pinball machine.
01:13:24
Speaker
We talked about The Walking Dead, but after Carter went and saw it at one of the local competitions and he did say that it would probably give him nightmares, we decided best not to bring that one in.
01:13:36
Speaker
The only other one that has been kind of risque that we thought about not bringing in was ACDC.
01:13:42
Speaker
And the reason for that one was is there's some imagery in there that, like you said, at first they might not get it.
01:13:49
Speaker
But I'm afraid keeping it in the home over time, like she shook me all night long with women getting into the car and shaking the car along with the lady.
01:14:02
Speaker
Oh, crap.
01:14:02
Speaker
It's one of the song modes.
01:14:03
Speaker
It's going to drive me nuts.
01:14:04
Speaker
And someone's probably going to message us and say what it is.
01:14:07
Speaker
But it's the one where it has the giant inflatable doll.
01:14:11
Speaker
And every time you hit the pop bumper, her boobs jiggle up and down.
01:14:16
Speaker
And so those are two that we've decided against.
01:14:20
Speaker
I've never had an urge to have like a gogar in the house.
01:14:22
Speaker
And so it's never been an issue for me.
01:14:25
Speaker
But for the most part, we just try to keep it something that our children can enjoy as well.
01:14:31
Speaker
I've noticed that like with when we had Revenge for Mars, Carter loved the Mars needs women mode.
01:14:39
Speaker
And it was kind of weird because he would gravitate to that a lot.
01:14:43
Speaker
Um, and I just thought it was kind of kooky, uh, not saying it's a terrible mode and you shouldn't have in your home because of it.
01:14:51
Speaker
But when, uh, an alien's massaging a naked woman and she says, oh, that feels good.
01:14:58
Speaker
And he's like, tell me more, baby.
01:14:59
Speaker
And she freaks out, you know?
01:15:01
Speaker
I don't know.
01:15:02
Speaker
It just... We decided... That's why I kind of... One of the reasons kind of upgraded to Attack for Mars.
01:15:08
Speaker
And like I said earlier in the interview, the only other one was High Roller Casino.
01:15:12
Speaker
And yeah, I wasn't planning on keeping it.
01:15:15
Speaker
So it wasn't a big issue when my wife's like, we probably shouldn't have this here if Carter thinks that the women on her are naked.
01:15:23
Speaker
Yeah.
01:15:23
Speaker
Well, and I think this is interesting.
01:15:28
Speaker
You don't realize how many...
01:15:34
Speaker
what word am I searching for?
01:15:37
Speaker
Things that aren't kid friendly until you have kids or you start watching them with kids.
01:15:45
Speaker
Yep.
01:15:46
Speaker
The innuendos and stuff like that.
01:15:48
Speaker
If you're watching any 80s film, a lot of times you pick up on, wow, I don't remember there's this much swearing in it or wow, I didn't realize how much innuendos in there.
01:16:00
Speaker
And I think that that's pretty common.
01:16:02
Speaker
There's a reason why there is a family-friendly comedian out there.
01:16:10
Speaker
There are family-friendly movies out there because it does get a little awkward when you have that.
01:16:17
Speaker
And
01:16:18
Speaker
Again, you have to pick your lane.
01:16:20
Speaker
I know someone who I talked to and they said they watch Game of Thrones with their entire family.
01:16:26
Speaker
We're talking parents.
01:16:29
Speaker
We're talking she watches it with her spouse and she has her kids.
01:16:33
Speaker
And when it's a crazy scene, she's like, OK, under the blanket.
01:16:37
Speaker
And so that's how they do it.
01:16:40
Speaker
That's not that's not for me.
01:16:42
Speaker
And that's the.
01:16:44
Speaker
Again, it's the beautiful part in Pinball is that you get to choose your lane, what you're comfortable with, what you're not comfortable with, and you find that happy spot.
01:16:56
Speaker
I think the best thing is kind of look at all those things that are, if you're making your own collection, take your family.
01:17:07
Speaker
Hey, what do you think of this game?
01:17:08
Speaker
Do you like this game?
01:17:10
Speaker
Do you like the theme?
01:17:13
Speaker
So if you look at mine, mine is very family friendly.
01:17:16
Speaker
I have Simpsons.
01:17:18
Speaker
I have Tron.
01:17:19
Speaker
I have X-Men.
01:17:20
Speaker
I have Pirates of the Caribbean.
01:17:23
Speaker
I have Shrek.
01:17:25
Speaker
You know, this is...
01:17:26
Speaker
this is all those things that would really fit in fine with, with most families.
01:17:31
Speaker
And maybe there are some things about, uh, you could argue that X-Men, the characters on there are dressed a little risque because it's that, it's that retro eighties, nineties comic book style where they, they took some liberties with some costumes.
01:17:47
Speaker
I'll put it that way.
01:17:49
Speaker
Um, but I, I don't really notice that.
01:17:52
Speaker
And my, my family hasn't said that, so I'm okay with it.
01:17:56
Speaker
Yeah.
01:17:57
Speaker
Well, like I was saying before to just sit down with your wife and go through some of the aspects.
01:18:02
Speaker
There's some things that you're probably listening to and like, holy crap, like they don't allow anything in their houses.
01:18:08
Speaker
And there's some of you like, yeah, that makes sense why you're not doing that.
01:18:12
Speaker
Every home household is different.
01:18:14
Speaker
And one recommendation I would make to is pick games that are
01:18:21
Speaker
Aren't like pick themes that aren't going to make your kids then want to watch whatever it is.
01:18:26
Speaker
So like you said, Game of Thrones, if I brought a Game of Thrones into my home and then my eight year old started loving the game, he then in turn wants to know what the theme is about.
01:18:36
Speaker
So then he'd want to watch Game of Thrones and it would become a fight because then it's like, well, I don't understand this game's in our house, but we can't watch the show.
01:18:44
Speaker
So yeah.
01:18:45
Speaker
there are some interesting conversations I've had with some of the games that have come in the house, not saying even more terrible or anything like that, but it's like the Simpsons.
01:18:52
Speaker
You know, depending on which household you come from, it's either people love the Simpsons and all their kids can watch it.
01:18:59
Speaker
And some, some families don't like it and they don't want their kids to watch it.
01:19:02
Speaker
So when I brought in Simpsons, my son wanted to watch Simpsons.
01:19:06
Speaker
It was a fight for a while.
01:19:08
Speaker
And we ended up, we didn't, I didn't ever let him watch it just because I feel like he's a little young for some of the humor, but,
01:19:15
Speaker
Um, but yeah, that would be my suggestion.
01:19:19
Speaker
So you just dive into it and bought a family guy, right?
01:19:23
Speaker
Yes, exactly.
01:19:23
Speaker
Cause I wanted sperm multiball.
01:19:27
Speaker
Yeah.
01:19:27
Speaker
But I, and this is, this is so great that you just, everybody gets to choose their own lane and guess what?
01:19:33
Speaker
You're buying the machine.
01:19:34
Speaker
So you get to make the choice.
01:19:36
Speaker
Yep, exactly.
01:19:38
Speaker
I just think that as long as you're finding things that the family can accept, it certainly makes your life easier.
01:19:47
Speaker
So I actually think when I look at Gorgar, Lost World or something, I look at that and I think, you know what?
01:19:55
Speaker
That reminds me of those fantasy books from the 70s or 80s.
01:20:01
Speaker
And so I would be okay with it.
01:20:04
Speaker
But I know my wife wouldn't.
01:20:06
Speaker
The women are a little too scantily clad for her taste.
01:20:10
Speaker
And that's fine.
01:20:13
Speaker
There are so many games out there that it's not a big deal for me.
01:20:17
Speaker
Well, let's wrap this up.
01:20:19
Speaker
We've been going for quite some time now.
01:20:22
Speaker
I hope you guys are enjoying your Friday.
01:20:24
Speaker
It's Wednesday for us, but by the time this releases, it'll be Friday.
01:20:27
Speaker
Just a couple more shout outs.
01:20:30
Speaker
We talked about a bunch of pinball podcasts last week or two weeks ago, and there is one that we missed.
01:20:36
Speaker
And I feel terrible because this man is a legend amongst the pinball community.
01:20:43
Speaker
I think he doesn't get enough recognition for what he does.
01:20:47
Speaker
And he never goes around touting that he isn't the top.
01:20:51
Speaker
But in my book, he is what professionalism is when it comes to pinball podcasting.
01:20:57
Speaker
So I just wanted to give a shout out to Jeff Teolis, man.
01:20:59
Speaker
You do a great job.
01:21:01
Speaker
Jeff certainly does his best impression of being the awesome radio promoter.
01:21:10
Speaker
He's a pro.
01:21:10
Speaker
Yep.
01:21:13
Speaker
So other than that, I think that pretty much does it for us, Scott.
01:21:17
Speaker
You got anything else for me?
01:21:18
Speaker
No, I think we're good.
01:21:20
Speaker
I'm going to wrap up here and try to get to Keto's this weekend.
01:21:24
Speaker
Awesome.
01:21:25
Speaker
Sounds good to me.
01:21:25
Speaker
Hopefully I can join you.
01:21:28
Speaker
All right.
01:21:28
Speaker
Sounds good.
01:21:29
Speaker
All right.
01:21:29
Speaker
Later, man.