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Ep.122 Outlawed Plant Allies and the Art of Sacrifice with Sarah Russo
32 Plays1 day ago
When Sarah Russo and I sat down, we knew we were going deep—and we did. Together we explored her graphic novel Herbs for the Apocalypse, a raw and powerful work that blends science, punk aesthetics, and plant wisdom into a call for revolution.
We talked about what happens when plants with great power meet human fear, about how creativity becomes a collaboration with our green allies, and about the beauty of sacrifice as plants show us daily.
This conversation isn’t just about herbs or apocalyptic futures—it’s about resilience, resistance, and reimagining our relationship with plants as kin and co-conspirators.
This is a provocative exploration of what it means to listen, to co-create, and to allow plants to challenge our assumptions about beauty, power, and survival.
Topics Covered about The Apocolypse & Revolution
➡️ The creative process behind Herbs for the Apocalypse as a plant-human collaboration.
➡️ How plants embody sacrifice and resilience, modeling true revolution.
➡️ The tension between criminalizing powerful plants and learning from them.
➡️ Why plant communication expands far beyond science into lived, creative experience.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction
08:02 Bridging Science and Spirit
16:09 Translating Plant Intelligence
24:35 Redefining Identity
32:36 Plant Rituals & Initiation
40:42 Personal Risks & Sacrifices
Resources Mentioned
🌱 Herbs for the Apocalypse (Sarah Russo’s graphic novel)
🌱 Naturally Conscious Community
🌱 The Final Herb of the Apocalypse
🌱 HFTA Short Film
Expanded Show Notes
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Herbs of the Apocalypse
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Transcript
Introduction and Themes
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, hello, hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Reconnect with Plant Wisdom. It's me, Tigra Gardena. You're going to love this episode. You're going to love this episode. when When Sarah and I first got on the call and we were just kind of discussing some of the points we wanted to hit, she said, oh, we're going to go deep.
00:00:20
Speaker
And she was right. We went deep. And you're going to love this. love where we ended up and i am very excited to present to you sarah russo who wrote herbs for the apocalypse this graphic novel that we're going to go into in graphic detail because there is just so much here we talked about revolution we talked about resistance we talked about um how we as humans don't know how to handle super powerful plants We talked about the creative process. There was just so many aspects of this episode that are going to like just put us, as we said, kind of take us into the new paradigm of what it means to have a deep connection with plants.
00:01:06
Speaker
And what happens when we allow ourselves to completely kind of create this ah creative process with plants and what comes out on the other end. So this is episode 122, Outlawed Plant Allies and the Art of Sacrifice with Sarah Russo.
00:01:26
Speaker
This is all about writing herbs for the apocalypse and listening for revolution. Enjoy. Welcome to Reconnect with Plant Wisdom.
Meet Sarah Russo
00:01:37
Speaker
I'm your host Tigria Gardenia, nature-inspired mentor, certified life coach, and the founder of the Naturally Conscious Community.
00:01:44
Speaker
For over a decade, I've been known as a world ambassador for plant advocacy, working closely with plants to share their practical wisdom to help you consciously embody the elements of life that nourish your evolution.
00:01:55
Speaker
In this podcast, I delve into ancient and modern knowledge from biology to spirituality about the wondrous ways of plants. Together, we'll explore how ecosystem thinking helps you overcome limiting beliefs, understand the true nature of relationships, and live an authentic, impactful life.
00:02:15
Speaker
So Sarah, I actually found your work um actually a few years back when I was first deep diving into all of this world of plants and stuff. And then I came across your novel at some point and I kind of read through it. and it was one of those things.
00:02:31
Speaker
It's actually bookmark, which I don't put a lot of bookmarks, but it's one of those bookmarks that I have. So I'm actually really excited to have this conversation with you because I've always been curious of like, how did you get there? But before we jump into all of the work that you've done and the novel that you've written, can you please tell everybody who is Sarah Russo?
00:02:51
Speaker
Thank you so much. I'm excited to have this conversation as well. um who am I or who what do i do is always a question really hard for me to answer. um i think I'm not alone in that. A lot of people are struggle to define themselves in that way. um But it i'm I'm working on that question.
00:03:11
Speaker
um And right now I'm in a life transition and things like that. But um ultimately, I'm a plant nerd. I'm essentially self-taught. um I grew up in nature.
00:03:23
Speaker
And so I've always been inspired by nature, always had a very deep connection to the planet. um And when I was little, um i had a river in my backyard. And so i grew up in Montana.
00:03:38
Speaker
So I had mountains and rivers. And I just grew up listening listening to plants. And um when I was about 10, dad at the time hat started this essential oils collection. um And I started reading books and smelling them.
00:04:00
Speaker
And I remember there was a moment where I had a cold. And so I looked and looked up which essential oils would be good for a cold. And I put some in the bath and I felt better afterwards. And that was my moment of clarity.
00:04:13
Speaker
amazing. I can heal myself. This is some powerful stuff, right? um And then life leads you in different ways. And being an adolescent, I got kind of lost in other things. And then when I got to college, one of my friends, she and I both started on the herbal medicine path. um I have chronic health conditions. So I started learning about ways that I could heal myself that didn't involve pharmaceuticals.
00:04:46
Speaker
And a lot of the diseases that people work with are highly complex. And so plants hold a natural complexity, which I think mirrors our internal complexity.
00:04:56
Speaker
um And so long story short, fast forwarding, um cannabis is what started me on the path of writing.
Genesis of the Graphic Novel
00:05:05
Speaker
And so I started, I became a writer and editor and a communications strategist involving plant medicine.
00:05:14
Speaker
And so that's my current work. And um that was always the more scientific side of things. Cause historically I've worked with holding a lot of complexity in the sense of subject matter, and then trying to translate that to a general audience because I'm not a scientist.
00:05:36
Speaker
But I do like to kind of navigate that world and help make that information accessible. um So sometimes when there's a scientific paper, I have a lot of trouble understanding some of the deep aspects of it, but there's a lot of information you can pull out and I work with people to help me translate that as well.
00:05:55
Speaker
um So yeah, and that and that brings me to kind of another space in which I've always been creative. And I know that's something that resonated with your project as well. There's this like side of creativity and this side of science and they're not mutually exclusive.
00:06:12
Speaker
So that's where the idea of the graphic novel, Herbs for the Apocalypse came in. I had only ever did um writing articles, scientifically backed information. And then I got this idea for a fiction full novel. And that was this big learning curve for me, but I just had to follow that.
00:06:30
Speaker
that path wouldn't really let me live it down. So yeah I understand that feeling. And and i'm I'm glad that you talked about the creativity and and we're going to deep dive into that. Cause I think that that's such a big piece and so important. The, the creativity mixed with the science.
00:06:49
Speaker
I also do plant consciousness commentary and, you know, there I am literally trying to break down exactly that science into a way that we can see not only understand it, but also with the benefit in my perspective, like for me of being outside of the academic world, but kind of like with a foot or like a toe kind of into it, I'm also able to read between the lines or explore what happens when you read between the lines.
00:07:17
Speaker
Cause I think that that's another aspect that unfortunately you have such amazing experiences knowledge and information and ideas and concepts and understandings that are coming out of these papers.
00:07:29
Speaker
But when you read them only directly, which I understand why the science world has to do that, I think you miss the richness and the extrapolation that can happen in everyday life, not just at the biological or academic type levels.
00:07:45
Speaker
And so I love doing the commentary from that perspective. And it feels in some ways like that's a little bit of what you did with Herbs for the Apocalypse. In other words, you took all of this knowledge, but then wrapped it into a completely different type of container.
00:08:02
Speaker
So can you tell people a little before we start, because I want to dive into it already. Can you just tell people because the book, the the graph it's a graphic novel. It's very like. you know, it's punk, it's, it's raw. It's like in your face in so many different ways, very opposite from the kind of writing you were just describing. So can you, can you explain to people what, what the novel is really about and, and you know, what kind of, um, what's the angle that you decided to choose or like that felt called to, to, to express this?
Exploring 'Herbs for the Apocalypse'
00:08:32
Speaker
Sure. Yeah. I think you nailed it actually the perspective of, of the ah work. Um, So initially this idea came to me, it was, the title was ah in place from very early on, Herbs for the Apocalypse.
00:08:45
Speaker
The protagonist is Sofia Spinoza. She's a dreamer rooted by her love of plant life and she gets insights from plants directly um and since she was a child and her family ancestry.
00:08:58
Speaker
And so she's a Luddite protect perpetually chasing an era that she never knew. She's really into records, ah She has a Walkman. She doesn't have a cell phone.
00:09:10
Speaker
um And so ah she's at odds with the world. And she's always been perpetually angry about the human race destroying the planet. So she goes to work in an herb shop.
00:09:22
Speaker
And the story unfolds kind of within the context of the herb shop. And so with all the characters coming in during Armageddon, the kind of stories and things that evolve throughout time, and then the herbs start to talk more loudly.
00:09:37
Speaker
And so a lot of plants get mentioned throughout the story, but there are 10 herbs of the apocalypse that have a monologue. So they'll come in and give insight on how to survive the end of times.
00:09:48
Speaker
And so um it started off as a novel and I wrote three different drafts. And then long story short, I shelved the idea. I said, this isn't going work.
00:09:59
Speaker
At least I can say I wrote a book. No one will ever read it. and then I got the idea. Again, because i had never written a novel and I had never written fiction. And then all of a sudden it just, the idea was make it a graphic novel. I had never done that.
00:10:13
Speaker
Um, I had to find an artist. So I did. And it took over two years straight of the artist Rokai and I working together. um and the concept of it was in its essence, quite unconventional. I'm not going to say I reinvented the wheel. All art is pulling from somewhere. Right. Um,
00:10:33
Speaker
But I knew early on that this concept was quite different in the sense of the status quo. um And so traditional publishing, I threw out the window after the three drafts of the graph um the novel itself.
00:10:49
Speaker
And I said, no, that's not the way I'm going to go about it. um Because the spirit of the story really did want to defy ah rules in a lot of ways. um And so in the story,
00:11:03
Speaker
two of the characters write for a zine. And so it kind of has that 90s zine aspect going to it in the way that it looks. um And I had story developers and people I was talking through um during the process of writing it.
00:11:20
Speaker
um And I had people proofread it at the end, but it's very gritty intentionally. um And there were certain rules of writing like points of view and things like that, that I decided I wanted to jump back and forth between. I didn't want to just maintain this constant thread.
00:11:38
Speaker
It jumps through time. It seemed to come out quite cohesively, um but it's a little bit of a wild ride. And so it's not everyone's cup of tea, um but the people that it resonates with, I think it really does. And I had more than one person tell me, oh, the character, Sophia, I know someone like her. She's an archetype, right? So it's like pinpointing an archetype of this type of person that we coexist with.
00:12:06
Speaker
And People also ask me, is she you And I tell them, well, all the characters are me to a certain extent. um right But for her what it really was, was taking this part of myself that has been in the past completely devastated by the state of the world um and giving that a microphone.
00:12:28
Speaker
And so it was a very cathartic experience because i I wrote the novel before the pandemic, but the actual process of the graphic novel was started in plain pandemic.
00:12:38
Speaker
So, you know, both Rekai and I are dealing with our perspective ways of doing things. She's in Cairo, Egypt. I was in Spain and we're just facing the pandemic together, working
Artistic and Plant Influences
00:12:50
Speaker
on this project. So it was very, it it helped.
00:12:54
Speaker
It was a therapeutic experience for sure. um And then the plants themselves, the ten herbs of the apocalypse, i it was an interesting consideration, you know, because on one hand, I thought, who am i to speak for these plants? You know, who am I to say, this is what Rose says, and this is Dandelion's voice. But at the same time, it's it's an interpretation, right? Anybody can have their own interpretation.
00:13:21
Speaker
But it's interesting when we had our talk together, you were saying dandelion is screaming. And that was exactly how I felt about it. You know, so there are these common parallels that we find.
00:13:32
Speaker
So it's interesting to think about plant consciousness and kind of the same types of messages that are coming through and what they might be. Right. Well, and I think that this is where what I love about working with the more than human world, right? When you work with other kin, it's always a collaboration, whatever comes out, because ultimately we're the ones with human language.
00:13:55
Speaker
We're the ones with arms and legs to be able to do certain things that the plants can't do, right? So plants have this experience of having all this knowledge. And then there is to a certain extent, kind of a,
00:14:09
Speaker
a race mind that exists. And yet every being that you work with, every different dandelion has their own pieces of personality, which is exactly what we expect, right? It's what we see in every other species. I don't understand why people think that plants should be different in this way.
00:14:27
Speaker
But ultimately, in order to get something out into the human world, it's always got to be collaboration. And what I find always fascinating is I've worked with many and I've spoken with many artists that have this process, whether they're writers or painters or other kinds of creative artists that have worked very closely, musicians with plants.
00:14:46
Speaker
And it's always fascinating to me to see the the dance that ends up happening, the the period where you allow the plant to use your talents, let's just say, and your human abilities. And so you you kind of almost open and you're just a channel that conduits what is coming from the plant and and translates it into a human vocabulary or a human expression. But yet it's as close to the essence of the plant as possible.
00:15:16
Speaker
And on the other side is the full, you know, collaboration that happens when the plant express, it's almost like two people, you know, it is two people that are bantering back and forth.
00:15:30
Speaker
And you just are are the one that ultimately puts it out into this human world. because But it it comes from something that is made by both of you. Did you have that experience? Like, how did you find the creative process?
00:15:44
Speaker
with the plants themselves in order to channel their voice? Like what was that like? and And did it change over the course of the, especially from the previous incarnation of like novel novel to graphic novel that adds really a different element to it?
00:15:59
Speaker
here That's a good question. Yeah. So the novel itself, actually the graphic novel, what it turned into be is quite different. The story formulated and I had to make it more concise And it it always should have been a a graphic novel in the end. um Now I feel like any future work I do for the creative process side of things, I want it to be in a graphic novel format because I just feel like for me, especially the main character, she's so provocative.
00:16:30
Speaker
And so if you can actually see her, you can empathize with her better. But when she was just words on a page, it was a little bit harder. And I had one of my beta readers say, I can't stand her.
00:16:41
Speaker
So... um She wasn't written to be light necessarily, but you know, there is a degree of empathy that people the reader can have when they're viewing it as a graphic novel. And for example, my brother, he only reads graphic novels. He doesn't read any normal books.
00:16:56
Speaker
Um, so there are a lot of people that I think can, um, gain access to information in a visual sense that they couldn't, if they were just trying to read a simple book.
00:17:08
Speaker
Um, So the process of connecting with the plants for the story was very interesting because there was a lot of information that was kind of coming through me.
00:17:20
Speaker
um and And I think it was you had asked me, where did it come from? I can't really say exactly where. I've had friends start writing books through dreams. Like this idea came from a dream. For me, it just came in.
00:17:32
Speaker
And wherever that came from, I'm grateful um because in a sense, I've feel like it became kind of a conduit for the story. And for me, it's just, okay, here you go. This is the output.
00:17:44
Speaker
This is the creation and my interpretation of that. um And so on one side of things, there was a more mental, logical approach.
00:17:55
Speaker
um For the 10 herbs of the apocalypse, I wanted to choose plants that would be um accessible in a current state, you know, when we're dealing with international droughts and climate change, um that were really resistant plants.
00:18:12
Speaker
So there was that. So that was like a more logical approach. But then there were the plants that just told me, yeah, like, I need to be there. Me, me, me, me, me. It's crazy how they're like that. When I did my, i have a spirit wild plant quiz and that leads obviously to an entire kind of experience with those, those plants.
00:18:35
Speaker
Oh my goodness. Like me, me, me, me. me me I'm going show up here. I'm going show up there. I'm going show up in these pots that you've left outside. you have to choose me.
00:18:47
Speaker
Yes. you Okay. Okay. and And I do feel there are plants that are very willing to be in the spotlight and they' kind they're kind of what I call the divas, right? they They're demanding that attention. And then there are beautiful plants that are also happy to work quietly in the background.
00:19:06
Speaker
Exactly. And so there are some plants in the writing process that were like my quiet aids. Yeah. And I wanted to start and end the story with two psychoactive plants that have been with us throughout history. um And so that's the beginning is cannabis and the end is opium poppy. And so that was quite clear as well, because I think about a lot of people, anybody could have their herbs of the apocalypse, right? Like this is just one I compiled from my side of things.
00:19:44
Speaker
um But I feel like those plants are really here. They've been here. um Opium poppy, there's evidence from Neolithic times that our past ancestors were working with the plants. So they're around. They've been here. They're going to be here no matter what happens to us.
00:20:01
Speaker
So, um yeah, there's that. And then there's the the the medicinal plants. All plants have a medicine as far as I'm concerned. There are some plants. medicinal attributes that I think are more commonly known.
00:20:16
Speaker
on And the intention behind the story actually was to make this information accessible and also to demonstrate that every single one of us can have and has a connection to
Graphic Novel Format and Storytelling
00:20:29
Speaker
plants. It's not something that's an esoteric, oh, look at me, I'm so special, I have this connection. um It's really to inspire people to connect in the way that they feel called to. so I mean, even if you're sipping something like chamomile tea, you know, chamomile is such a powerful plant. It's so amazing and so accessible.
00:20:50
Speaker
So it's a great plant to connect with. And everybody has a unique perspective. You know, and if you talk to someone about their experience with chamomile, they may tell you something that you'd never thought about before.
00:21:01
Speaker
So it's a kind of take or herbs or plant wisdom or plant medicine off its pedestal a bit to be like, hey, this is a people's medicine. And so that's what kind of the spirit of the project is in its essence.
00:21:16
Speaker
Oh, i I really like that. I like it because i think, you know, as I said, I have this quiz and I've i've been working with spirit wild plants, which are basically what people call weeds for so many years. And I find um the other the other thing that I really love about working with them in addition to everything you just said is how they pop in and out of your life in different periods of time.
00:21:38
Speaker
And I um like, for example, purslane is a plant that I can, you know, over the last maybe about five or six years has moments when pops up starts growing in a pot randomly.
00:21:52
Speaker
And I have this massive experience for a season and then goes away. And it's not a periodic. Like this year, there is no purslane around my my home, which is for the last you know two years, purslane has been very consistent.
00:22:08
Speaker
And all of a sudden now there's no person anywhere. And it's like the message is so clear. This is not like what I have to offer you. The work that we do together is not necessary right now. So, you know, go work with somebody else. And so another plant might come in and such.
00:22:23
Speaker
So I think that as you're saying, it's like these plants are accessible and at the same time are still kind of coming into our so into our purview, into our our our circle.
00:22:36
Speaker
in those moments that are most important, which I think is great for the work that, you know, for that kind of novel, for the topic that you talk about. And, you know, going back to a little bit, just what you said about the graphic novel, we in Dom and Her have a ah graphic novel that we wrote also. called Checkmate in Time. It's actually a double. It's on one side is part one, and then you flip it over and you have part two.
00:22:57
Speaker
So it's really interesting the way it's written. But what I love about it is that also it's it's easier to do the suspension of disbelief when you have a graphic novel, it's almost easier for a person to give themselves space to experience what's happening in the graphic novel and only after say to themselves, well, what part of that is quote unquote real, or how do I process that in a different way? So I i actually enjoyed so much this format that you chose because of that. It's, it's a different way of entering into connection with plants. And the other piece of it is as a, as a,
00:23:34
Speaker
As i actually ah kind of like old fashioned 1980s heavy metal rocker chick, which I don't appear to be right now, but I am. and yeah go if you go see my social network, you'll see like where the concerts I've been to recently and it will prove it.
00:23:50
Speaker
I also love the breaking from the stereotype that thinks that, you know, people who are connected to plants have to be, you know, the hippie sort of like, I mean, fingernails in the earth all the time, bohemian type of like, these are the categories in which you connect to plants. And so the idea that that instead here you have, you know, Sophia, that is more like you said, Luddite punk rocker, like that more edgy side.
00:24:19
Speaker
And how the plants still, you know, how the plants want to work with her through that part of the personality. I also found really an important choice. um And I believe ah a co-created choice because I'm sure that the plants were like, hey, don't put us with another freaking hippie. We've got enough of those.
00:24:36
Speaker
Like. We chose you to write this. We chose you to write this because we want these colors and these personalities of yours to come out and start to show these pieces. So please let them shine like type of thing.
00:24:51
Speaker
Did you find that that like the plants really wanted to accentuate certain aspects of Sophia more than others? Yeah.
00:25:01
Speaker
um Yes, there was this, there's a part of her, the isolation. I felt like that was an important part to kind of give space for.
00:25:11
Speaker
um Because i think a lot of times, when I'm feeling most connected to plant kin, it's when I'm in a space of isolation. So either I'm by myself in nature, or I'm meditating.
00:25:26
Speaker
right? And you can have collective plan experiences that can be all also ah connect you to a cohesive, unified voice. But for me anyway, it takes a lot of kind of hermetic type spaces to be able to really tap into that because I'm very sensitive. So if there's any other energies present, I can absorb that readily. So I think that that kind of at odds with the world dynamic that is very present in the novel was important to convey.
00:25:57
Speaker
um and to kind of give her a softness that kind of expands over time as well. I thought that was important um because you don't want to, write it would be really boring to write a character that was never questioned or everyone says, Oh yeah, go for it. You're amazing all the time. You know, was, she, she definitely has the head butting,
00:26:20
Speaker
along the way. um and I definitely, it was interesting too, um because it was written pre AI era as we know it now.
00:26:32
Speaker
um And so the kind of devotion that it took and the amount of time to a write a novel and then completely ditch that and then have to transform it into a script, which I'm giving to Rokaya, because for anybody that doesn't know,
00:26:50
Speaker
when you create a graphic novel, you have to design basically, ah it's very synonymous with a movie script. So you have to say, right, panel one, this is what the character is wearing. This is what happens. This is the dialogue.
00:27:02
Speaker
um And so that takes a lot of time. And, and so for me, the, the, a big part of it was this act of devotion and sacrifice. Sacrifice feels like a very big word to say.
00:27:16
Speaker
um but it just, It takes a lot of time and energy and effort. um And so that was part of it. It was my offering. I'm really glad that you used the word sacrifice because one of the things that I learned early on working with plants, and I remember this important lesson, um and I remember kind of the different moments that it came in so that I could not just, because it's it's not a like you receive it once and all of a sudden it's super clear.
00:27:46
Speaker
It's you receive it and you're kind of like, what is this? And then all of a sudden you get it in a different way and all these different ways manifest. And all of a sudden the picture becomes clear over time. And sacrifice was one of those that the plants, really all the different plants I started to work with, especially in forest environments,
00:28:05
Speaker
the more I learned about ecosystems, the more i the the more I went into kind of biomimicry perspectives and and bio-inspired design, the more I started to realize how important, which is funny because I went from this technical, sort of kind of like you were saying, from this technical, biological, also engineering-ish style way that all of a sudden brought me to a, i guess you could say emotional or spiritual concept in a completely different light, which is the understanding of sacrifice in its most beautiful and positive light, which to a certain extent is something we've lost in society.
00:28:43
Speaker
You know, we we have very small instances and and parasitism as a relationship approach. is also a form of beautiful sacrifice that when we think of it in most terms in society, we we give a negative connotation to.
00:29:02
Speaker
But in reality, there are these small pinpoints. Parenthood is a great example of a form of parasitism and a form of voluntary sacrifice that is seen still with a positive light, thankfully.
Sacrifice and Lessons from Nature
00:29:15
Speaker
and But yet we've lost all the beauty of the sacrifice that be um in almost every other aspect of society. And plants give us such wonderful exhibit um ah demonstrations of sacrifice in action um from sacrificing themselves to give space to a small seedling, from the way that I grow in order to get a little bit less light, in order to ensure that more of the overall growth
00:29:47
Speaker
Area gets better light, um ah sacrificing parts of my own body, maybe a branch that falls or such in order to make space for something else that needs to come in. Like there's so much giving nutrients than like sharing off nutrients because we're in a drought and therefore I need to maintain so-and-so who's going to come in in the next season and I hope might give back to me but might not.
00:30:09
Speaker
Like there's so many different ways that plants show us this form of sacrifice that I think is something we have to re- reacquire reconquer in our regular society because true revolution true resistance actually requires a a form of sacrifice and even in most spiritual practices for example kabbalistically speaking the sacrifice is the christ principle and and is also is to ferret is that that that
00:30:39
Speaker
complete beauty because all of a sudden when I give myself into that sacrifice in its most beautiful way everything appears beautiful because it's like oh my God, i can see the intention. I can see um the the desire from that. It doesn't matter that the application of it might not work or that it might not be perfect.
00:31:02
Speaker
I see what it was meant to be. And therefore I see the beauty in the intricacy of however it is that it's developed. So I'm glad that you spoke about sacrifice because I do think that it's it's just a lost archetype and ah it would be so important for us to reconquer it.
00:31:19
Speaker
and to understand that sacrifice can be extremely beautiful and something extremely enriching from the beauty that it projects in you. So, you know, kind of like, which is I'm i'm imagining and I hope that that's how you see this whole process of all those years that it took you to get this novel out.
00:31:40
Speaker
Yeah, that's a really amazing point. I think I agree. I think that we lack the connection to sacrifice in the modern Western world. in the global north anyway.
00:31:51
Speaker
um And I think that there are ah many traditions, like sacrifice. Initiation also is one that I feel like we really lack.
00:32:03
Speaker
And there are a few examples that I can think of Something like getting a tattoo can be an initiation experience. um But the the construct and that we see them is its a lot of times if I think about um sacrifice in the current world, it's sort of a self selfish sacrifice, right? It's like, look at me.
00:32:26
Speaker
I just did this thing and I now have a presentation for the board or something like that, right? Right, right. And I did all night and now the presentation's done. But this kind of, i think plans give us the opportunity to just
00:32:42
Speaker
Surrender to the unknown. Like this is the work I need to do. Right. And I do it. And I don't know what the point is necessarily or what the outcome might be, but it's just going to be done.
00:32:55
Speaker
And it doesn't have to have definitive end necessarily as well. It just needs to be done. That's all I knew with this project. and And I was really frustrated when it was a novel. And then I went through so many drafts and even kind of what killed the novel itself was um getting a professional edit.
00:33:14
Speaker
And I work as an editor now, so it gave me a lot of perspective on what not to do. But I remember there was one point where they said, this is very unrealistic.
00:33:25
Speaker
I'm like, oh, all right. Well, then it's just not going to work out. Exactly. Yeah. And so, yeah, to kind of defy the constructs, I think a lot of times that the that kind of renaissance of sacrifice needs to do that.
00:33:44
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. In, in Kabbalistic terms, we say um that taferred is about do the right thing because it's the right thing to do. Period. It doesn't matter. And that's the sacrifice. You don't know what's going to come out of it. You just know it's the right thing you have to do.
00:33:57
Speaker
And it's not based on because the the kind of two counterpoints that are closest, one of them is you do the right thing, because you're kind of feel ah beholden to the, not the outcome necessarily, but like, these are the rules and these are the rules I need to follow. And in the other side, I do the right thing for others, right? Like I do it because they want me to do it or because I'm trying to please.
00:34:20
Speaker
And once you get to that beautiful, beautiful sacrifice is I just do the right thing because deep inside of me, I feel it's the right thing to do. Period. It doesn't matter. it It could benefit somebody. It could not benefit somebody. That's not the point of it. It could be because there's a rule that tells me I'm supposed to do it or not.
00:34:37
Speaker
That's not the point of it. I just do it because I know it's the right thing to do. and And I feel like when we get there, it is, like you said, it's such a liberatory, like you feel that liberation. You feel that that sense of detachment from the outcome and you realize that that's what it's going to be.
00:34:52
Speaker
And I've just found that I have never been able to understand in all the years I had studied and researched and tried to understand and was on my path and all these things. It was the plants that made this concept sort of grounded this concept inside of me just sitting in a forest, you realize that that has to be the guiding principle that makes all of this work.
00:35:13
Speaker
Like any ecosystem you sit in, that you're like, okay, there are beings here that are constantly sacrificing themselves in so many different ways. And look how beautiful it all looks at the end.
00:35:23
Speaker
Look how it comes out. Like, oh my goodness. it So it's amazing, which I do think is a revolutionary act. And I think it is a point of You know, that that is something that changes, it profound when you get into that place, it profoundly changes our ability to influence, um if for lack of a better term, i'm trying to think of the right words, the future, right? It is the ultimate act of revolution that I do something just because it's the right thing to do.
00:35:53
Speaker
Like that is the ultimate revolutionary act that I know that this is the way it's supposed to go and I am going to do this. from a deep down place. Did you find that your concepts of, for example, working with these 10 plants, especially with a team with a theme around the apocalypse, right? Like the whole concept of where we're going.
00:36:13
Speaker
How did you find that your definitions or did they at all change about around resistance for example resilience around revolution like how what what came about and where where were the plants how were the plants influencing this this kind of journey that you were on amazing question um yes i feel like it did change and evolve um because the whole thing was a weaving process right because
00:36:46
Speaker
I'm very stubborn and people have criticism criticisms of being stubborn and it can be good and bad, but I think with the stubbornness comes determination, right? So I was determined once I started this graphic novel approach determined, but then i was sitting there with the plants. And so for example, every one of the 10 herbs, the apocalypse, I spent as much time possible with them.
00:37:10
Speaker
So rose is one of them. I had a rose growing in my yard at the time. And I sat with her and meditated. And I'm not really, to be totally honest, I'm not that kind of person that does actively think about that.
00:37:26
Speaker
Like this excer this was an exercise because I know some of my friends who have gone to herbalist school, they they have an approach where they do that. They'll and take it in this form and take it in that form, sit with the plant, you know have it around them.
00:37:39
Speaker
um And so I was really trying to adopt that. So that was an interesting shift for me. um But the big message with Rose, and for me, I thought initially, okay, Rose has to be there. I wasn't really quite sure why, just because obviously it's iconic. It's been with us throughout time.
00:37:57
Speaker
But then once I was sitting with her, it was this insight into all of the medicinal properties that this plant holds that most people don't really think about, right? Because we just think about growing her for beauty aesthetic smell, right?
00:38:13
Speaker
So it was that. It was like, there's a lot more to me than meets the eye And don't project upon me. You know, this is, it's not for your projection.
00:38:24
Speaker
So kind of, there was a lot that I learned actually through sitting with the plants. um And some of them i developed a deeper relationship with in the end after Having this experience with them um and and writing and rewriting them.
00:38:41
Speaker
And, you know, cannabis was one of the plants that I had the longest running connection with. So but, you know, at the same time, she's such a force to be reckoned with that I felt.
Challenges in the Creative Process
00:38:54
Speaker
ah very humbled by the experience of trying to write her monologue. Like, what does she actually have all the things she's going to say? What is she going to say here? um And so that even that, you know, had been with her for a long time. She's an instrumental part of my life.
00:39:10
Speaker
um It was the cosmic connection, the connection to everything being one. And, um you know, we're all just floating particles of stardust in the ever-expanding universe. And that oneness and the kind of like trying to define me into a drug, it's not really working out for you. It's like the the breaking of constructs. So i I wanted to have her set the stage with that.
00:39:39
Speaker
um And then later comes in Nettle. And it's interesting that you do a lot of work with weeds because I think four, if not more, of the herbs of the apocalypse are weeds.
00:39:50
Speaker
And so I liked her kind of energy, which was a dominatrix. It's like mother nature owns you, not the other way around. you know um and And I i had made mistakes i made mistakes with nettles before. like i There's the process of urtication where you actually hit yourself stinging nettle to lower inflammation, right? And I thought, great.
00:40:10
Speaker
And I was being foolish one day. And I said, oh, my stomach's feeling a little bloated. Let's see if this works. And I hit myself with... Yeah, and... I couldn't sleep that night because I had such a bad rash.
00:40:24
Speaker
And so that's also... I'm picturing you there going, I'm just going to try. Yeah. And I think that that's important to note in this as well, is that anytime you think you got it figured out you will be fooled. You know, it's just...
00:40:44
Speaker
You ah don't know anything. And so that reminder as well, the humility piece of, okay, I thought I knew what was going on. And now it just takes this turn.
00:40:57
Speaker
um And then there are really funny insights I would get. randomly Like one time I was having a session with cannabis and I got this image of in the, in the graphic novel, there's the cannabis goddess who appears at the beginning and she pops back in later on There's a concert that's not supposed to be happening.
00:41:16
Speaker
And the cops show up at the concert and the cop says, who's got the dope? And then the cannabis goddess flips them off with her leaf hand.
00:41:28
Speaker
And yeah, It just came to me like that. Like, that's so silly. But it just was this idea that came, you know? And so kind of working with that and and figuring out, okay, this is a silly idea. I'm going to integrate that into it. Or sometimes you get silly ideas and or really interesting concepts that you have to edit out.
00:41:46
Speaker
So in the concepts of writing, there's kill your darlings. So there were some real darlings that I had to kill. But it's just part of it. Because in the end, you connect with what needs to be said.
00:41:59
Speaker
There's a certain depth as well. So there's a depth of things and other people might not pick up on that. And that's okay because they're actually going to picking up on some things you didn't even realize as well. Right.
00:42:12
Speaker
Right. And i'm I'm actually, I'm happy that you're talking about cannabis in this way, because for example, um I had Sydney Kale on the show and also her book, which is called The Love Language of Plants that she wrote. She co-wrote with a number of different plants.
00:42:29
Speaker
And we read it as the Plant Wisdom Book Club. And in the book club, when we read it, we realized that she had called the chapter that she wrote, that she co-wrote with um cannabis.
00:42:40
Speaker
She called it hemp. And I think it's hemp is what she called it. And I, when we, um she was actually, i had her on the podcast, but I also, she also came to the final ah discussion around her book.
00:42:52
Speaker
And we all were like asking her, like, Kemp is not the plants, you know, here here you are writing about Damiana, and all these other bros and all these other beautiful plants that you've had these experiences with.
00:43:03
Speaker
And all of a sudden, you called it hemp. And she said that it was because of kind of more pressure from the outside to give a name that's much more you know, generic. And I'm like, yeah, but that's not even the plant. That's the product that the plant produces, you know, the fabrics and things that I get or other aspects of it. She's like, I know. And she's like, if I am in the next edition, that's going to be one of the things I'm going to change and fight for.
00:43:26
Speaker
And I think that it's beautiful that you're, because I think cannabis is today in society going through this kind of like swing where, you know, because of changes in laws, because of changes and things like that,
00:43:40
Speaker
There is you know more people that are connecting to cannabis in a way. And yet, of course, we have a lot of um superficial use, right? We have a lot of that aspect.
Society's Relationship with Cannabis
00:43:51
Speaker
But what I have found in talking to people is that those that give themselves that opportunity to experience allow themselves to enter into a connection with cannabis at a whole different level and how important it is for that process to just unfold in whatever way it's going to be. Like, I think we try to judge, and this happens with all kinds of plants, um whether we're talking about, you know, ayahuasca or some other kind of plant and Of course, there is always, even with dandelion or with ah nettle, there is the opportunity for abuse and misuse and of like, you're just missing the point of working with these plants. That's always going happen.
00:44:35
Speaker
That's on the human, right? It's the human to understand whether or not they're they're trying to, I always say to people, the most important thing of whatever, especially because I work with multi-potentialites and I work with people who have like lots of different passions who jump around from thing to thing to thing,
00:44:50
Speaker
And I'm like, it's always about the intention. If your intention is running away, whether it's working with a plant and your intention is to run away from something or whether you're, you know, have following your your dreams, but you're really running away from other stuff, that running away is never going to work. And the plants show us that constantly. They're sessile, you know, kin are in place. They can't run away.
00:45:11
Speaker
And they're trying to tell us the the way to resilience and revolution is not running away. It is dealing with shit. And so if you want to work with me, you've got to deal with it.
00:45:25
Speaker
You've got to go through it. You've got to sit there and experience it and feel it. And you can't run away from it. You know, even that nettle, the nettle said that to you most clearly, like you want to just fuck around and find out, fuck around and find out.
00:45:40
Speaker
I'm going to show you, but you can't run away from it. Once you do that, now you've learned something. Where do you want to go from here? Like, where do you want to go from here? And that's really how nettle is, right?
00:45:51
Speaker
Let me give it to you straight. Let me like, you know, i'm I'm not going to sugarcoat it, I'm going to put it into your face. And then after, I'm going to give you the chance, where do we want to go from this?
00:46:02
Speaker
So you can experience everything else, all the soothing that comes. But it's because I've given it to you. And now you're going to sit in it. And we're going to work through it.
00:46:14
Speaker
Right? Yeah, it's such a gift to be able to receive insights from plants and the different kind of personalities they offer, right? Because there are certain plants that are sort of that tough love.
00:46:25
Speaker
Some are just so humble and open and giving and others are kind of... I'm not sure about you. yeah Exactly. you That's so true. and And I'm actually curious about this only because you mentioned it. um Why?
00:46:44
Speaker
and And I'm kind of, I have my own theories, but before I go there, in my in my attempt to be somebody who holds and and like gives more space um and like to to not have my words sort of clutter everything.
00:46:57
Speaker
I'm so curious as to how you ended up with poppy and as opium poppy in particular. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, that opium poppy was one that came to me right away when I, I created a list and there were some edits and revisions.
00:47:12
Speaker
Cannabis was on there right away. Poppy was on there right away. So poppy, um, I, the way that that plant has shaped humanity and continues to alter the future of humanity is incredible.
00:47:28
Speaker
Um, And I think it's definitely a tool of resistance because if you think about the stigma that this plant has, I mean, and then then they the dichotomy and the hypocrisy, right? Because which what Poppy talks about in the monologue is my seeds are widely available in the supermarket, yet wars are waged over me.
00:47:52
Speaker
You know, like how can, how can society view a plant in the same way?
Opium Poppy and Social Constructs
00:47:58
Speaker
yeah, um And it's actually because of the twist of the hand that humans tried to make this plant better that it became what it is now with the opium epidemic.
00:48:14
Speaker
For example, there was opium. that's That's the resin taken from the head of the flower. And then they may they've discovered morphine was such an extract, right? And so morphine rev revolutionized modern medicine.
00:48:29
Speaker
So even still to this day, if they're doing any studies on at that pain killing drug, they measure its efficacy against morphine. Is it more effective or less effective? And so then they they notice, oh, this is amazing medicine, but it has a potential for addiction.
00:48:46
Speaker
What do we do about that? Let's make heroin. And that was created by a pharmaceutical company called Bayer. And we all are familiar with Bayer. And then it became illegal.
00:48:57
Speaker
So then since then, I don't even need to get into the details, but it's very complicated. But now we have the opium opioid epidemic in North America, but now it's spreading to different parts of the world.
00:49:10
Speaker
um And it's because we don't know how to handle plants with power, with great power. um And instead of understanding them, trying to understand, trying to find a way to work with them, it's stigma.
00:49:27
Speaker
criminalizing criminalizing the plant and the people because Afghanistan, you know, one of their ancestral plants is poppy and all the wars that have been waged and continue to be waged because of the war on drugs.
00:49:40
Speaker
And for me, i wanted to have a plant that represents this senseless act of destruction. and it's an act, it's an attack on nature. Not only is an attack on people, it's an attack on nature.
00:49:54
Speaker
And so that being said, in the end, and what the plan says ah is like, I'll still be here once you're gone. So, you know, I believe having and oh that there's, um, lobdomum was the, uh, tincture extraction in, in the eighteen hundreds nineteen hundreds that was made from opium poppy that was available as a pharmaceutical product back before they criminalized poppy and cannabis.
00:50:21
Speaker
um in the United States and in other parts of the world. So to have a poppy tincture, and opium poppy tincture on hand in in the event of the collapse of humanity is going to be essential. I mean, it's one of the strongest painkillers around.
00:50:37
Speaker
So that's why i thought this is, I don't want to say the herb of the apocalypse, but definitely holding down this concept and and holding this power of death as well.
00:50:50
Speaker
Because I think that in the apocalypse, we obviously have to reckon with our relationship to death. And we're doing a really bad job of it. And Poppy shows us that. you You know, as you were talking, you brought, so what I love, I love this about these conversations and I love um being able to go into this level of depth is that recently I've been having lots of conversations with different people. We were just talking about it in the recent I Sprouts ah monthly gathering, which is a gathering that um it's kind of our our gathering that we do every month in the naturally conscious community.
00:51:27
Speaker
And in there, we were having a conversation about um ancient civilizations, even those that are kind of, to a certain extent, unknown to um to humanity today, even from you know Atlantean and Mu and all these others. But ah one of the people, and Andy was talking about the fact that there's, i guess, a ah writer who talks about an ancient civilization that comes from an alien race, bubble blah blah, blah, blah, regardless of what you mean.
00:51:52
Speaker
what you believe But the point that that was coming up that we were really discussing deeply was that over and over again, humanity is giving um given the opportunity to ah deal with its own personal level of complexity and development, its emotional intelligence, our ability to deal and wield great power effectively and also in a way that is I don't know, for lack of a better term, because I don't think we've coined the right term yet, because we don't know how to do it yet.
00:52:21
Speaker
Altruistically, to a certain extent, or ah maybe in a way that's sacrificial, like in a way of of selflessly, there's all these types of words, but I still don't think we have the right one. And As you were talking, I was realizing that, yeah, we always say that we blame outwardly the things that we ourselves haven't been able to deal with as human beings.
00:52:43
Speaker
But this one about, like you mentioned, Poppy, as well as um as cannabis and and others, holy bejesus, what a great example of us of us humans blaming people.
00:52:58
Speaker
blaming an external force and and punishing plants for basically something that we as humans can't control. it it ah Permit me, i'm I'm a pretty extreme when I come say certain things and people, you know, whatever, take it or leave it.
00:53:14
Speaker
um It is the equivalent of the burqa that you put on the woman because the man is too weak to control himself in the in the vision of beauty of what is a full woman.
00:53:26
Speaker
And so let's put a burqa on a woman and cover this woman because I as man can't control myself. And so therefore she needs to be hidden because, you know, if she, I see her skin, I'm, I'm going to go crazy and I'm going to do things. And it's her fault because she is exposing too much of her beauty.
00:53:44
Speaker
And in some ways criminalizing cannabis and poppy and, and, you know, coca and all these other plants is the exact same thing. It's saying, let me, you're so powerful, like you said, right? We don't know how to handle plants with great power.
00:54:00
Speaker
So you're so powerful that I'm going to but throw a blanket over you. I'm going to put a burka over you. I'm going a chain over you. And I'm going to say that ah you can't be let out, even though the weakness is not the plant. It's me as a human being who can't control myself.
00:54:21
Speaker
Yeah, i I think that there's this, unfortunately, innate desire in humanity to understand. I say unfortunately, because it's great, because it brings us about innovation and advancements, right?
00:54:36
Speaker
But with that, it's this need to simplify and distill down to bite-sized pieces that we can comprehend, right? So I think that A lot of plants in their essence are beyond our ability to grasp in a lot of ways. Like i am all for plant science and figuring out the ways, the mechanics of how plants work and let's innovate and make some remedies that really help humanity. All for it.
00:55:06
Speaker
But at the same time, there's always going to be asked aspects of plants that science won't be be be able to elucidate. like the energetic plants, impossible. There's no way. I mean, however advanced science gets, I don't think that there's any way for them to really be able to wrap their head around that.
00:55:24
Speaker
And so I think it's important to note, um, that in different cultures, the approaches are completely ah vastly different. So, um,
00:55:35
Speaker
In the global north, it's this idea of plants being these single solitary things and we need to figure it out and da, da, da, da. Well, each plant in of itself is a whole world, right?
00:55:48
Speaker
And so, you know, to be able to wrap your hand around that is going to take devotion, time and energy.
Cultural Reflections and Plant Kinship
00:55:55
Speaker
And that's really not something that the global north is equipped to deal with, like time and energy.
00:56:02
Speaker
I don't want to have to do all the work, right? But then you have cultures that have carried ancestral wisdom for millennia and continue to do that. So you brought up coca.
00:56:16
Speaker
Coca is a plant that's interwoven into cultures in South America. And it's a great fallacy of the global north to say, oh like we're extract, we want to get rid of that because that's it's essentially...
00:56:33
Speaker
degrading their ability to practice their culture. and and and And this concept in the Global North as well of like take a plant, we take it for medicine, we take it and take, take, take without having any sort of sense of like what that means, what our relationship is to these these plants. So I think that that's the the biggest issue is that the the cultures that are the most disconnected from plants are the ones that are governing international law.
00:57:02
Speaker
And so they don't have the tools to be able to make informed decisions. So right now I'm working with a university in Columbia and we're doing a and integral coca leaf monograph that will look at this plant in a scientific light, but also in an indigenous light. And where we have methodologies that support indigenous ways of sharing information in the stories and one of the points of this is to help educate policymakers because right now there's a big push internationally to deschedule coca because right now there are three plants that are internationally scheduled.
00:57:42
Speaker
One, we all talked about them, cannabis, opium poppy, and cocoa. So that's got to change because all these plants are and insanely powerful. They're tools and allies and kin.
00:57:58
Speaker
They should not be criminalized. And I think Until humanity can stop criminalizing plants, we have work to do. Absolutely. Absolutely. and And it's, I'm so glad that you brought this up because this is not a conversation I hope i hold often.
00:58:13
Speaker
And yet it is kind of the underlying perspective because this is the criminalization, like the outward persecution of these plants. And then it trickles down into the way we deal with weeds, the way we look at, you know, and we create these pesticides, the ah ah all these other pieces, I think are just trickle downs from that, from what you just said.
00:58:38
Speaker
And we have to deal with the fact that we are, outwardly punishing what we internally don't want to deal with ourselves. And it goes back to that whole fact of what are the plants trying to teach us?
00:58:51
Speaker
Be sessile, be present, deal with your shit in the place that you're in, not just geographically, but even emotionally where you are. And stop trying to blame everything outwardly and stuff. Because it doesn't work.
00:59:04
Speaker
It doesn't work, folks. It doesn't work. and If you don't deal with it, it's still going to continue. Like, just because you think you can eradicate it physically doesn't mean that that everything else is going to change within you. You're just going to then move that desire over someplace else.
00:59:21
Speaker
And so eventually, what are you going to do? End up sitting in a room like in by yourself, closed off from everybody else because you haven't dealt with your stuff. And so it's like these plants, as you said, they're super powerful because what they do is throw things in your face. I say that one of the reasons I love living in community is because you can't hide from yourself.
00:59:42
Speaker
your Your shit is right there in your face all the time. and And this is, I think, what people experience when they go off into the woods, right? They're not alone. We keep talking about like, oh, a person goes off into the woods. They're not alone.
00:59:54
Speaker
that Everything is in their face around them. Like all these plants are just constantly throwing everything into their their view and making them deal with it. And that's the reason why people who spend long times in the woods or whatever end up coming back with a sense of peace and of calm and of enlightenment because those plants are helping them work through it.
01:00:15
Speaker
They are kind of just sitting there and putting everything in front of you and making you deal with everything that you have to experience. Yeah. A mirror. Exactly.
01:00:26
Speaker
They're just reflecting
Conclusion and Call to Action
01:00:28
Speaker
Exactly. So Sarah, I think, you know, as usual, we we would just keep going and going and going. There's so much here. First of all, how do people get the book?
01:00:37
Speaker
Herbs for the Apocalypse. Sarah Russo, where do you find your book? Where do you find this graphic novel? We want it. Thanks. So um I decided to make this graphic novel only available in print.
01:00:51
Speaker
So it's self-published. It's only available in print. um I want to initially say thank you to all the crowdfunders. They helped us um create it um And so with that, it can be the version that it needed to be, which is exactly how it is in all of its gritty imperfection.
01:01:11
Speaker
um And so i we printed 300 copies and they're only at the time of this 20 left. oh you So get it now. Get it now. Get it now.
01:01:23
Speaker
Yeah. So you can go to herbsfortheapocalypse.com. Which I will put into the show notes. Yes. And that's how you can get it You can. and And if you have any questions, you want to reach out you want to connect. um If you write the website, you'll you'll get me.
01:01:41
Speaker
um And re quite some months ago, we were not really doing social media or anything like that. um So yeah, the best way to get in touch is definitely through the website.
01:01:53
Speaker
Okay, perfect. We will make sure that we include the links and put it all there. Sarah, this has been such a fantastic conversation. Thank you so much. And to everybody who's listening, remember, you know, these are the types of conversations we continue to have inside of the naturally conscious community.
01:02:10
Speaker
And also, so you know, we have things like the Sprouts writing and creativity book to, I mean, creativity group, not book. Although maybe now that was just an omen that we should write a book about this because co-writing and co-creating with plants really does change the way that you experience that type of practice. It becomes something more, an expression that is beyond the human world. So come into the naturally conscious community. Let's continue these types of conversations and let's experience this co-created world and the resilience and
01:02:46
Speaker
and And and even revolution that comes from a deep connection with other kin. Thank you again, Sarah, for being here with us. And to everybody, thank you for ah yeah know listening. Remember to like and comment and hit the subscribe button, you know, all those important things to get this message out to the greater world.
01:03:05
Speaker
And remember, always resist the urge to hold back your emerging green brilliance. Thank you. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Reconnect with Plant Wisdom.
01:03:16
Speaker
To continue these conversations, join us in the Naturally Conscious Community, your premier online ecosystem for plant reawakening and accelerated evolution and co-creation with other kin.
01:03:27
Speaker
Here you'll find expansive discussions, interactive courses, live events, and supportive group programs like the Plant Wisdom Book Club and the Sprouts Writing and Creativity Group. Connect with like-minded individuals collaborating with plants to integrate these insights into life. Intro and outro music by Steve Shuley and Poinsettia from The Singing Life of Plants.
01:03:47
Speaker
That's it for me, Tigria Gardenia, and my plant collaborators. Until next time, remember, resist the urge to hold back your emerging green brilliance. I'm out. Bye.