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Postpartum Healing & the Sacred Calling of Motherhood
22 Plays7 days ago
In this deeply moving episode of Pause & Think Podcast, the conversation explores the science, soul, and sacred responsibility of motherhood. Joined by Irene Kim, this episode dives into postpartum healing, matrescence, nervous system attachment, foster care, adoption, and the emotional realities mothers carry after birth. Together, they reflect on how community, compassion, and intentional support can help mothers, babies, and families heal, bond, and thrive.
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Transcript
Opening: Identity and Worth in Adoption
00:00:02
Speaker
We all have a story, and at times we feel we're walking it out alone. Let's pause and think. Join us for honest conversations about adoption and parenting as we lament, encourage, give hope, and explore our true identity and worth in Christ.
Introducing Irene Kim: Counselor and Author
00:00:23
Speaker
Hello, we are back to Pause and Think. And today I have the pleasure of introducing you to a beautiful friend that we met back in January or was it the beginning of February? Very chilly um Pennsylvania at the field conference. You sit with a lot of people and the Lord had it in mind that we meet Irene Kim.
00:00:50
Speaker
um We were... Easily just into conversation. um We were there, Jackie, Darby, and me. um And we really enjoyed meeting you, Kim, and just listening to your heart and what you are actually doing in a very tender spot, I feel like, for a lot of women. And so she is a licensed professional counselor. She's a professor doula um and she's a doula trainer.
00:01:23
Speaker
And so that caught my attention right away. um And you're also an author and children's book um author. And I would love for you to say the name because I don't want to mess it up. So could you tell us what that book is named?
Children's Book: Addressing Trauma and Healing
00:01:41
Speaker
And then we can, you know, just enter into the conversation that we're scheduled to have today.
00:01:47
Speaker
Of course. No, thanks for having me. The title of the book is called How Eunhe Found Her Light Again. Mm-hmm. who So Eunha is like a Korean name. ahha But yeah, so it's it's kind of a story that's like symbolic of like trauma. Just through this kind of very like um symbolic book about a ah girl and her light and how it went out and how she kind of like found her light again.
00:02:14
Speaker
I love that you pay attention to that side of feelings and that side of life and how it impacts later on.
00:02:28
Speaker
And so I think it connects directly with your love for tending to the postpartum woman. Yeah. um Because that's a very beginning of someone's story.
00:02:43
Speaker
It is a very important part of the mother's life. And it's the very beginning of someone coming into the world. Right. And so I see it in scripture
Postpartum Experience and Support
00:02:55
Speaker
throughout. Right.
00:02:56
Speaker
how the Lord is very intentional in considering the postpartum, even the sheep, when he, in, in, in, in ah you know, Old Testament,
00:03:08
Speaker
it's very clear that he has a special attention to every female that gives birth. It's like a different pace when they travel. It's a different kind of care.
00:03:22
Speaker
And not to mention the women of Israel. They they were very tended to. There was a a different protocol in how you handle the whole postpartum period. And so I love that you are really honing into that very vulnerable state.
00:03:41
Speaker
I don't think there's a very, you know, I don't think there's um a more vulnerable spot for a woman than postpartum. um What brought you into that line of work?
00:03:55
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I think you're absolutely right. It is a very vulnerable time. I think it first started when I was pregnant with my first baby and um I was the first one out of all my friends to have a baby. So to go through pregnancy and birth and postpartum, um I did not know what I was getting myself into. and Thankfully, i just happened to come across like the right teacher, the right doula, the right supports, you know, just really organically came into my life. And it made my whole birthing experience, postpartum experience, really great.
00:04:31
Speaker
Like it was beautiful. But then I had a lot of friends who did not have the education about it, the preparation or the supports. And I saw how detrimental that could be. even quite traumatic um emotionally, mentally, even physically when you don't have the right supports
Understanding Matrescence
00:04:52
Speaker
or guidance. And so very quickly I saw that having that kind of support isn't just the luxury, it's like an absolute need, right? Like like you said,
00:05:05
Speaker
such a vulnerable time. You're vulnerable to so many things, like again, emotionally and physically, mentally. And so I really see myself as a very protective person in the room. Yes, I'm trying to make your experience as beautiful and as comfortable as possible. But mainly in my head, I'm looking out for the safety of my moms and their babies, their families. as I'm doing the work of supporting them.
00:05:36
Speaker
What do you think the most common misconception when it comes to you know like giving birth and postpartum in general is? Yeah.
00:05:47
Speaker
Yeah, I think a lot of times birth and postpartum is like glamorized, right? you see all the beautiful pictures just like, you know, that's what we feel good about posting, right? All the cute pictures when we're out at our best, put on some makeup, all of that. But I would say the biggest misconception for postpartum especially is that it is just a physical recovery from like medical event um kind of like maybe healing from a broken leg or a surgery right we're taught to kind of you know take a little time but then we should kind of bounce right back to our old self but the truth is there is really kind of no back you're going to because you have completely transformed into another kind of person We actually have a term for this. It's called matrescence. And it's kind of like adolescence when, you know, like there's that transition from childhood to adulthood. Right. yeah And during that time, we know that teens go through a lot, you know, as they transition as teenagers. But matrescence in its own very unique way, which
00:06:53
Speaker
Again, i don't think people know that term that much. and And that's so fitting because people don't understand the transformation that a woman actually goes through. And this transition from just a woman to a mother, it's like a total identity shift, like your body changes. your brain, your hormones, like your soul is literally being rewired.
Postpartum Changes: Hormonal and Neurological
00:07:17
Speaker
And so i think like when society tells like a woman to, you know, get back to normal in six weeks, it's like asking a butterfly to like go crawl back into your cocoon. It's just, it's literally impossible. And so, my work largely with postpartum moms is about helping them meet the new version of themselves. Um,
00:07:40
Speaker
and one that is stronger, more expanded, but just completely different, but beautiful in its own way. Wow, that's a beautiful analogy, the butterfly. You would never ask it to go back into the cocoon or, you know, the the prior form because it's not meant for that. um So could you give us like a broad picture of what happens to a woman's body? And it's interconnected. I mean, I don't want to separate it at all. But the fact that it happens to your body, in your body,
00:08:16
Speaker
has a direct impact on your mental health and even spiritually. Like, all of it shifts. Yeah, absolutely. i think that if we could, like, visit physically see with our eyes um what is happening inside of a postpartum body, we would just be in awe of it every single day. um For example, like, within 24 hours, like, after you have a baby,
00:08:44
Speaker
Your hormones, specifically like the estrogen and progesterone, it drops faster than any other time in human existence. And when I say drop, it's like the physiological equivalent of a cliff dive.
00:08:59
Speaker
You are literally plummeting. And when that happens, it's kind of one of the biggest reasons why many moms face baby blues or postpartum depression, right? And then at the same time, your brain is kind of undergoing this incredible, like neuroplasticity where it's kind of... um pruning away old pathways and growing new ones that are needed in order to, to be more empathetic to, um to be able to connect and even to be more alert. And this is often where the mama bear, you know, is, is, is,
00:09:39
Speaker
is born and we have those mommy instincts that are kind of set into full gear because your nervous system is just on high alert now to protect your baby and it is a state of actually extreme vulnerability um and extreme strength existing kind of in the same at the same time and so um I think on the outside, it can kind of look like a deficit because we might not be able to do other
Cultural Differences in Postpartum Practices
00:10:11
Speaker
things as well as we did before, but it's not a deficit. It's actually your body am almost sacrificing like its own resources to ensure the survival of like the next generation, like your child. And so um that in and of itself, like everything that's happening, I really believe deserves like a holy reverence. Right. Oh, my goodness.
00:10:36
Speaker
Absolutely. Absolutely. I really wish more women took time to reflect on everything you just said and dive deeper into the miracle.
00:10:53
Speaker
that takes place not only in birth, but these you know days and weeks, prior even months. like people like what What you say, we've narrowed now narrowed it down to weeks six weeks.
00:11:09
Speaker
right I don't know why, because the Bible doesn't speak of weeks. It speaks of months. And even when you see you know Anna,
00:11:20
Speaker
um You know, I don't know the term English. My first language is Spanish. So I don't remember the word in English, but the ceremony in which the child would be, um you know, stop breastfeeding.
00:11:35
Speaker
It's not a modern age idea of six months or a year or a toddler. It would be way you know beyond that. And so to speak of time in our modern ages is different. And even in cultures, like I hear you speak and of course,
00:11:55
Speaker
In the United States, it's handled way differently. And yeah for us as, you know, in Latin America, we see American moms be at the supermarket with a very tiny newborn. And we're like, oh oh my goodness, they're out, you know, out in the world doing errands with their newborn. And you're supposed to be at at home and, you know, eating you eating loads of, you know, soup and and really, you know, being nesting with your baby. So there's,
00:12:24
Speaker
the culture factor in there. um But I really, i really appreciate the fact that when you stop and reflect on what really is happening, you may be more, more graceful toward yourself.
00:12:41
Speaker
And maybe as a community, we can give new moms a lot more support and, and grace in that sense. Yeah, absolutely. It's not talked about enough. So I think there is like an unspoken expectation to be operating at a very different level than what we should be doing.
00:13:02
Speaker
Like what you just said. Exactly. And many people really focus on the baby. And of course, that's like a sweet, even, you know, when it's the first grandchild and whatnot, um you want people to love your baby. But I think supporting a postpartum family
Challenges for Birth Mothers in Adoption
00:13:22
Speaker
yeah involves way more than the baby and the mom needs to be you know um supporting a very sweet intentional way for her to be in her strongest you know posture to take care of this baby right so um what do you think the role of community is here yeah I think it's exactly what you just said it's like
00:13:52
Speaker
we have to stop just asking, how's the baby doing? And start asking like, how is the mother? you know um Actually, when I had my first baby, um it was like a 40 hour birth and i pushed for the last four hours and he ended up being a 10 pound baby and it was hard So hard.
00:14:21
Speaker
And, you know, this was like the first grandchild. So my whole family, all the families out in the waiting room, like just waiting, they're like chomping at the bits to come in and like meet the baby. Right. And so um sure enough, there was no boundaries. Like everyone, as soon as they knew the baby was out, they like came rushing into the labor and delivery room where I'm still like, i'm just recovering. Like I literally minutes ago, just push this baby out. And,
00:14:49
Speaker
most everyone went to the baby right and was like how's the baby but my dad he couldn't even look at the baby he came over to me and he saw like my state the state that i was in and he just like cried and he just held me and he couldn't even look at that baby the first day you know like he was just and he said he was even angry that no one was like with me and everyone was at the baby like he was mad like he was upset and he left after he saw me he couldn't even look at the baby but then the next day he saw that i was like you know better and and he is in love with my child like
00:15:31
Speaker
That's like his first love. Like he forgot about me after that. but But, you know, like that meant so much to me, you know, because I didn't even think about that. I just assumed people to like dote on the baby. Right. But he like came to me and he just made sure that he needed to make sure I was okay.
00:15:48
Speaker
And, um and, you know, like I said, I had lots of support. So people really were taken care of both me and by taking care of me, taking care of the baby. Yeah.
00:16:00
Speaker
Yeah, you make me remember a very, set like a very sensory, alive memory in me. My family came in, of course, in in in Guatemala, the baby, i mean, you deliver the baby and usually, yes, they put, you know, the baby on on your chest and whatnot, but then the next few minutes they take care of him or her at the nursery and they wash and they clothe them and whatnot.
00:16:28
Speaker
And so they're there and the doctors come in and take care of them. um But you are taken elsewhere to your room. And so my in-laws and my parents and my sisters come in And I do remember a very sweet posture of everyone around me. But my mom kissed my forehead. Now, when I tell you i was in pain because my delivery...
00:16:58
Speaker
involved, you know, very little anesthesia. There wasn't much time. And so everything was very tender. And I delivered, you know, ah and in a natural birth. I was very in pain.
00:17:14
Speaker
i can tell you, I remember my my mom's kiss connecting and actually stopping the pain for a little bit when yeah when her when her lips touched my forehead.
00:17:27
Speaker
And I was like hyper, vi i when you tell, you know, when you say about the experience in your body that you're hypervigilant, I do remember that very vividly. And I remember it in my body.
00:17:43
Speaker
So that's the kind of power that, um you know, this type of affection at those very, very vulnerable points um can afford a new mom.
Mother-Baby Separation: Biological and Emotional Impacts
00:17:55
Speaker
yeah And now we we're talking about this whole experience. And now I have to bring it back to, i it's hard for me to imagine going through birth and then being separated from my baby.
00:18:12
Speaker
And so this is the the the kind of world that I move in, considering adoption and foster care and and and everything that has to happen and not happen for a mom to be separated from her babies.
00:18:30
Speaker
And now how would you even go about supporting a birth mama that has had to have that decision in her life? Right.
00:18:43
Speaker
Now thinking she has somebody because most birth moms are actually separating from their babies because they don't have support. But this is a call to the church and we have to see the whole equation, not only speak about, you know, coming for the child and, and, you know, supporting the adoptive or foster mom, which we want to see happen.
00:19:09
Speaker
And the yeah i would I would think the whole spectrum of that scene, the birth mom, is the least supported and the least talked about.
00:19:20
Speaker
So I think we need to touch on that point. um How would you even go about this? Yeah. I think i want to start by first speaking about... um what it is to be connected to your child right right after birth so i'll start by talking about right after a baby is born like literally the minutes seconds following of the birth right and ah and remember when a baby is born they're still connected to the cord, right? They come out connected to the cord, literally connected to you still, right? And then what do you do after a few minutes, you cut that cord, right? But even before that cord is cut, they bring baby up straight to the mom's chest and
00:20:13
Speaker
we we We always take mom's gown off during this point because we want baby and mom to be skin to skin, right? As connected as you can be, we put a blanket on both of you, right? But baby and mom are skin to skin. And we call that first hour after birth. It's a golden hour. And I tell all my moms, this is your uninterrupted skin to skin time immediately following birth. And it is a biological requirement, uninterrupted.
00:20:43
Speaker
um And of course, it does not, should not, and cannot end there. It's just the first hour, but that's just the beginning, right? um In the birth world, we use this term. It's a Swahili term.
00:20:56
Speaker
And it's called mama toto. And it literally means mother baby. And it means mother baby as in a unit. um This is kind of like the fourth trimester, you know, the pregnancy is broken up into three trimesters, right? But when the baby is born, like those three or so months, right after birth, it's the fourth trimester. And even though the baby is now outside the womb, it is still absolutely connected and interdependent with mom. and it's this understanding that the mom and baby are not two separate entities it's almost like still a single symbiotic unit and and just like you shared in the womb one blood supply one rhythm one breath right everything was connected for a long time after birth you still have this interdependence on each other and so when you separate them
00:21:54
Speaker
We aren't just moving two separate people apart. It's like breaking a biological circuit that
Advice for Foster and Adoptive Parents
00:22:01
Speaker
they share. And so um you see that in adoption circles, right?
00:22:08
Speaker
There is actually a very real wound easy that occurs. gonna say when you separate mom and baby right we call it kind of like a primal wound and um even if a child is too young to have words for it their nervous system just like the mom's nervous system remembers the moment the unit was broken and that circuit was cut and they carry this wound deep into their adult years if it is not tended to, right? And I remember when i was doing foster care and working with
00:22:55
Speaker
kids who have been disconnected from their, their families. um One of the saddest things that I've seen is that I felt like a lot of the babies who I cared for, who were, you know, foster babies, they actually didn't cry a lot.
00:23:10
Speaker
this is And the reason for that is, is because a lot of times, you know, crying is like a communication, right? You cry, someone hears you, and then they tend to you.
00:23:23
Speaker
Right. And when you're connected to your mom, you cry, needs are met very quickly. um Babies who have been separated often don't get that, that response.
00:23:35
Speaker
And so babies who have been separated, stop crying because no one is there to respond quickly. And it's like part of that wound that they have.
00:23:48
Speaker
Right. And so um as a therapist, I see how this wound can show up decades later as like a deep, unexplained sense sometimes of not belonging, maybe a fear of being left or abandoned.
00:24:07
Speaker
And um Understanding this is huge so that we aren't left hopeless, right? We have to be really intentional, though, about almost like reparenting the nervous system, yeah right? To teach the body um through consistent love and attachment that it is safe and that um you can learn to love and trust the world again.
00:24:36
Speaker
Yes, it's we are built for connection and attachment. And I understand how I can just understand the impact that that rupture. I love how you have you describe it as a biological circuit that was cut and now it's incomplete or even open. yeah And the the key role that ah that a foster mom or an adoptive mom needs to step into and understand the need of the child and in a way,
00:25:12
Speaker
Accepting that it won't be what the original you know blueprint was is part of the a loss and it's part of ah of a grieving process that broke both parties need to go through.
00:25:28
Speaker
But what would you say to adoptive moms or foster moms to step who step into that scene of separation um for them not to be disheartened? I've seen very small babies reject, quote unquote, because it's not, you know, any, of course, not a voluntary posture on the baby's part. It's just not registering, I guess, in their brain and their sense of smell and in everything that involves, you know, being separated from mom. So I've seen very tiny babies don't connect, you know, it's not like you can substitute and then a bottle will be fine or, you know. um So what could you say to encourage foster or adoptive moms?
00:26:17
Speaker
Yeah, that is really, really hard because here you are trying to love on a child. hmm. trying to build trust.
00:26:28
Speaker
And i think for a while we can do it. And even if it's not working, we're like, okay, but at a certain point, it gets very tiring.
00:26:40
Speaker
o You might even start to feel a sense of rejection. um You might experience what we call like compassion fatigue, right? You're just tired out, right? um I would tell these moms or parents not to take it personally.
00:26:58
Speaker
yeah I would say, well, yes, the goal is to attach. It's also not the main goal. I would say the main goal is to be a safe space.
00:27:09
Speaker
If you make that the goal, I feel like there is almost like an added like layer of pressure that the child feels too. And anything with pressure, i feel like is resisted.
00:27:25
Speaker
Right. And so if you are like trying to attach, trying to attach, trying to connect, it can almost be counterproductive. Right. Wow. Feel forced even.
00:27:37
Speaker
I would say the greater goal and what's really needed is to be a safe space. Like literally creating a space in your home, in your heart where this child can come and be exactly where they are.
00:27:55
Speaker
Maybe they're at a place where they are really just still grieving. They don't want to connect right now. They just want to be sad. They want to be mad. they they They don't want to connect with you.
00:28:11
Speaker
That's where they are. Right. And, and to force or push that upon them. I feel like even if it comes from a good place, right, can be counterproductive and, and even.
00:28:25
Speaker
I don't know if i want to say hurtful, but it can be. It could feel dismissive to what they are experiencing, right?
Community Support for Postpartum Mothers
00:28:34
Speaker
Wow. This is so helpful, Irene. I really, truly thank you.
00:28:40
Speaker
I don't have newborns, and this is coming in handy today for me as mom to young adults. today because the expectation of attachment and the prayer for attachment is there but if you shift that to no you're a safe place you want to be a safe that you can do whether he or she are ready for connection or attachment whatever you are always able to provide a safe safe space so that's attainable
00:29:12
Speaker
yeah That is absolutely a wonderful place to be. And oh my goodness, I really appreciate the time you're taking. And I think this should be our first um discussion on postpartum and the miracle of everything that happens in a woman's body, in a baby's body, and how the community can come together to support a postpartum mom. Whether things go you know, storybook um like or nightmare like. um
00:29:48
Speaker
So in wrapping up, what would you say is the is the best approach for a community wanting to support a postpartum mom, whatever the situation, even if there's even bereavement, which is another topic, but a postpartum mom, what would you say she needs from her community?
00:30:10
Speaker
Yeah. I would say um i i first and foremost encourage actually like families who are expecting a baby to build a postpartum plan or like even a village map of like their resources. But sometimes like parents don't do that. They're just like drowning already in responsibilities and different stuff and they don't have a plan, right? um When you're in the fog of postpartum, you also don't even like sometimes know your own name, let alone like what's for dinner or anything like that. And I feel like a real community shows up, right? um They're not just saying like, how's it going? Need anything? Because often the answer to that is like, no, I'm fine. Or i'm like, because you don't have the bandwidth to even think, right? And so a village, a real community would show up and just say,
00:31:04
Speaker
I'm dropping off a meal on Tuesday. yup i can come fold your laundry on Thursday. um I'm swinging by. i'd love to just sit on the porch with you for an hour if you want to take a nap without listening for the monitor. And I can just kind of make sure everything's okay while you go rest.
00:31:22
Speaker
right? It's doing things, thinking of, you know, just those very basic needs, eating and rest. How can we do things? How can we step in to protect those things for a mom who is in that postpartum period, who is bonding with baby and has very little bandwidth for for those basic things sometimes? Yes. Yeah.
00:31:48
Speaker
That's a wonderful, wonderful insight and tip that we can apply today. And we, in Latin America, i think we all know at least one mom about to give birth. And if you are in the family of God, if you're connected to a church, you probably know a pregnant mom. And so this can be so helpful.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:32:10
Speaker
um And um yeah, I think it's a very beautiful piece of the puzzle.
00:32:16
Speaker
And thank you for your expertise and your insight, Irene. We really appreciate you. And thank you for this conversation. Let's meet again. Here at Pause and Think Podcast, please leave you leave your comments, your stories. We're eager to to hear you and to stay in touch. So contact us at whosami.org.
00:32:40
Speaker
And we're here always so happy to connect. Así que gracias.
00:32:48
Speaker
Thanks for joining us for this episode of Pause and Think. For more resources and information, go to whosami.org.