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The Primal Wound: An Adoption Conversation That Will Stay With You
13 Plays18 hours ago
Why do so many adoptees struggle with rejection, identity, and belonging—even in loving homes? In this vulnerable and eye-opening episode, Jackie and licensed therapist Irene Kim discuss the deep emotional impact of adoption, foster care, birth trauma, and healing. A conversation filled with compassion, truth, and hope.
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Transcript
Episode Introduction & Themes
00:00:02
Speaker
We all have a story, and at times we feel we're walking it out alone. Let's pause and think. Join us for honest conversations about adoption and parenting as we lament, encourage, give hope, and explore our true identity and worth in Christ.
Guest Introduction: Irene Kim
00:00:22
Speaker
Hello, my name is Jackie Darby and welcome to another episode of Pause and Think. Today we have a guest all the way from Frederick, Maryland.
00:00:33
Speaker
I'm sitting here in Guatemala, Central America in my house, but I would like to welcome Irene Kim. Hi, Jackie. So good to be here.
00:00:45
Speaker
So good to have you. Thank you so much for your time, Irene.
Career and Personal Life of Irene
00:00:50
Speaker
and Irene, we met this year, the beginning of this year, FIILD in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. It's a conference, a gathering for foster and adoptive moms. But you approached me.
00:01:08
Speaker
and first of all, i would just like to give you some time to introduce yourself and tell a little bit about yourself. Yeah, of course. So um I am currently um working as a licensed mental health therapist. And that is kind of like the main job that I do right now. um Prior to that, I was working as a birth doula for like the last decade or so just supporting new moms and families who are kind of, you know, going through that transition of having babies. So career-wise, that's kind of what I've been doing. Outside of that, i am a mom of three beautiful kids, age 14, 12, 10. And we spend a lot of our life kind of serving the community through foster care and being in that like adoption world, which is you know, how we met. So, so yeah, that's kind of a little bit about me.
Revisiting Past Discussions
00:02:06
Speaker
Well, this is episode two. you were on the first episode. and if our viewers have not listened or seen that episode, I really want to encourage them to go back and listen to the very first episode with Aisha. And you talked a lot about postpartum and the whole professional um side of birthing and postpartum and all that. So I just want to encourage everybody to go back and listen to that.
00:02:35
Speaker
But today we're going to shift gears and talk from a whole different whole different angle.
Cultural Connections at FIILD
00:02:42
Speaker
And i met you, like I said, at the field conference and you came up to me.
00:02:50
Speaker
and greeted me. And one of the things that kind of brought us together is because we are both Asians, we're Koreans, and you complimented my hair because my friends also said, oh, there's somebody who looks like your twin. And so our haircuts kind of brought us together. But i felt like that was, um,
00:03:20
Speaker
wonderful but a little unusual because personally in the United States when I'm in the United States and I'm usually around other fellow Koreans and I never know if they were you know if they're Koreans who came over or if they're just there visiting, it's a little awkward for us. But I would just like for you to explain like um from your perspective, you approaching me, just your your perspective about
Korean Social Norms & Immigrant Experiences
00:03:55
Speaker
it.
00:03:55
Speaker
Yeah. It's funny that you kind of mentioned like how that's normally awkward for you. I remember you mentioned that. i was like, oh, really? And then I thought about it and i was like, I guess that makes sense because I feel like with a lot of Koreans culturally, there is kind of like this high value on like saving face.
00:04:15
Speaker
And so often we see people kind of take this like wait and see approach to social interactions to kind of avoid being intrusive or or maybe like losing dignity dignity dignity in any way. So, you know, they're quieter and they don't just kind of approach people they don't know. And also for like the immigrant generation, i think there's kind of like this survivalist focus. So, Just keep your head down, stay within your own known circle where it's safe. And so there's like this unspoken rule about just kind of like staying within like known boundaries. And so you often wait for like a formal introduction before you just spark conversation with somebody. um
00:04:58
Speaker
But like you said, for me, like I'm Korean American, so a little bit different. I was born in the States and A lot of my friends, I would say, are kind of on the quieter side too. But me as a person, like just as Irene, I i really love people. And I really love like getting to know people. And it was fun with you because like you said, i mean, we were in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, and there were thousands of people at that conference, right?
00:05:21
Speaker
And not many Asians, like a handful at most. Like, I'm trying to think, did I see any other Asians besides you? Maybe one or two.
00:05:32
Speaker
Maybe, right? and And so spotted you right away. But not only that, the friend that I was with also said to me, like someone has your hair. And I was like, oh my gosh. And she's like Asian too. And so like right away, i was like,
00:05:48
Speaker
um intrigued by you. You caught my eye. And then we happened to be at the drink station together. So then I was like, hi, my name is Irene. and um And, you know, honestly, also, I think being in a conference like that, where we all know why we're there, right? We're there for this like common thread that we have in our life. So right away, i already knew that our stories in some way connected. And I was just curious to kind of like get to know you and and see who you were. already felt connected to you in so many ways.
00:06:21
Speaker
Well, first of all, thank you for coming up and saying hi to me. and that was really special to
Identity Struggles with Cultural Heritage
00:06:30
Speaker
me. i I had a lot of special moments at that conference, but um that was like the icing on the cake for me because you were literally one of the first women who clearly you were Korean or you know Japanese, one of the Asian cultures.
00:06:51
Speaker
And it was not awkward. Like i loved that you approached me and that we could immediately just start having a conversation. But because I wasn't raised in Korea, it is awkward for me because I i look Korean and I should know the Korean culture.
00:07:13
Speaker
But because of my story, I know nothing about it. And so sometimes um it is very awkward for me personally because I'm not sure how to approach them or if I should speak English or I've had a lot of Koreans greet me um at, to I say a lot,
00:07:36
Speaker
That's probably an exaggeration. When they are brave enough to greet me, they'll greet me in their native tongue. And it's awkward for me because now it's like, I don't know if I should say, hello, hola, I'm sorry, I don't speak Korean. And so it immediately is a little awkward, even for the person on the other side. So it was helpful helpful for you just to explain that even in the culture, you know,
00:08:06
Speaker
Our culture, you know, maybe we should just put our head down and be more private about it. So that helps me to understand because I don't have an understanding of our culture.
Connection to Adoption Community
00:08:16
Speaker
And for you to even explain it is very helpful for me as a Korean who was adopted and raised by an American family, a North American family. And so that part of my my culture... um Yeah.
00:08:35
Speaker
yeah and so for me being raised in an american culture it it creates a very awkward scenario at times um when i am around other asian women and so i really really appreciate the fact that you were not afraid to come up And just say hi. And you're speaking to me in English. So that part of it was, you know, was not there that awkwardness. So thank you so much.
00:09:02
Speaker
But we were at that conference, Irene, and it represents foster. moms and adoptive moms. And I know that you are not neither. You're not a foster mom and you're not an adoptive mom. So tell, tell the viewers, explain a little more about why you were there and, and your connection with that side ah of, of a foster and adopted, the adoption world.
00:09:28
Speaker
Yeah. So I initially heard about the FILED conference for the first time this year through my friend because I had written a book called How Eun He Found Her Light Again. And I was in my church small group and I was kind of sharing about it. And um this other woman in the group who had adopted she was a white woman, she had adopted a boy from Korea. And i remember I was sharing this book and she was like, have you ever heard of the Filled Conference? And she was like, that book would be perfect for that conference.
00:10:02
Speaker
And so she's the one who told me about it. And she felt that way because the book that I wrote, it's a picture book and it's kind of um like this very gentle but symbolic journey through trauma.
00:10:16
Speaker
And it's through the story of this little girl, Eun-Hae, it's how Eun-Hae found her light again, who carries like a little candle. And it's her journey of like losing that light through a storm, which is, you know, symbolic of trauma, and then how she kind of grieved and went through the trauma part of it. and and eventually kind of found her light again, but in a very gentle, symbolic way so that you know readers who are going through trauma um can kind of see themselves in that book in a very non-pushy way. So anyways, obviously we know that with the foster care world and adoption, as redemptive and beautiful as it is, there is a lot of trauma involved with it, right? um she felt like that book would be really good for the conference and so that's how i ended up there um but also i think it was really cool to hear about it because i'd never heard about it before and we used to be a foster home so like about um 10 years ago our family felt very called to foster care we just kept seeing like
00:11:19
Speaker
everything about like orphans, books, flyers, we'd be at the doctor's office and reading a book about a walrus who adopted a seal and like just different things just kept coming to us. And we just really felt like we were being called to step into that. And so we became a foster home um for about eight years. And We had over 20 kids kind of come and go through that time.
00:11:44
Speaker
We even almost adopted one of the kids who was our very first foster kid. And he stayed with us about eight years. He was like the first and the last, like he stayed for the whole span, even as other kids came and went.
00:11:58
Speaker
And um his
Family Ties to Adoption
00:12:00
Speaker
story was very up and down. And like I said, there was a point where we were given legal guardianship and almost adopted him. But his biological family, who we had stayed in contact with the whole time and built a relationship with them, too,
00:12:15
Speaker
and they the mom she really kind of turned her life around and got to a place where she was stable and and good and um they wanted to be reunified and so that reunification happened towards the end of our fostering period and we got to go back home and um And yeah, and it was it was a hard, beautiful thing. And we're still in touch with them. but But that's kind of how our family had already been connected to the foster world. And so it was really special to bring my book there and be amongst all these women.
00:12:58
Speaker
who are in this world. um And it was just really cool because where I was, I didn't know a lot of people who did foster care adoption. Like even at the church we were at, we were the only ones.
00:13:09
Speaker
And we were trying to have other people do it, but it's a big ask. And not a lot of people where I knew um were able to kind of step into that. So to be actually just with so many people where everyone is kind of connected to it somehow was so special, like not even special. Like I felt my soul like shaking being in that room, knowing that every single woman there, we shared this like beautiful burden in our hearts, you know, with this world that we're in. so it was really cool being there.
00:13:47
Speaker
Yes. And I want to apologize. I said you didn't have experience, but clearly you what you were a foster mom and your heart beats for foster and adoption. And so I know you also have um adoption in your family. Do you want to tell a little bit about that too?
00:14:06
Speaker
Yeah. So um yeah, in a few different ways. So I'll start with my grandma who um she lives in America now. She's been here since I was a little girl. But when she was living in Korea, she actually ran an orphanage and she had like over a hundred kids.
00:14:28
Speaker
And that was like her life. like that was her life and she loved it. and And even now you meet her and everyone feels like she's their grandma. She just loves everyone. So she she had that in her life and I feel like it was kind of in my blood in that way. And then my brother who lives just down the street from me, he actually a few years ago adopted from Korea as well. And he adopted a little girl. beautiful little girl from Korea and she's here now. And so, yeah, just kind of in different ways it's been in our family.
00:15:04
Speaker
I love hearing how you are so connected and that's why we immediately connected. um We have a kindred spirit and I can relate, you know, being in that room full of foster adoptive moms, adoptees, adult adoptees, birth moms, people who represent every spectrum of the adoption foster world. It was beautiful. And just appreciate Jamie Finn and filled and, and just creating that safe space that retreat for us to be able to come and unite and share that, like you said, burden, heartbeat, love, passion for the whole world. And that's, uh,
00:15:55
Speaker
That's just a beautiful picture of being the hands and feet of Jesus and completing the the verse in James 127 of pure religion. And so this leads me to another
Understanding Adoption Trauma
00:16:10
Speaker
question. um When we shared our books, which I hope you all look up Irene's book, um i i seen I've seen, we gifted each other with each other's book.
00:16:24
Speaker
um I love your book. And you talked about, you know, you just previously talked about the trauma. And I appreciate that because, you know, from the parents' perspective, it is so beautiful. And for those of us who have worked through our emotional, emotional,
00:16:43
Speaker
things that we've walked through, you know, many times we're afraid to talk about maybe the trauma because we don't want to hurt our parents. We don't want to come across like we're ungrateful or we're somehow giving a negative light. But like we've, we've learned and talked about, you can have, you know, beautiful and broken all in the same sentence, but there is a traumatic, um,
00:17:09
Speaker
break in the relationship that you describe in the very first episode about you know cutting that cord and then that separation that physical and emotional separation from our birth mom and I don't know if you just want to kind of touch on that again to explain that but I I loved how you explained that in your first episode and because of that it creates you know like an embarrassment or all these emotions, emotions that we, the adoptive child has, and then going into the new um family home, like your mom who created that, or your grandmother who had that orphanage, I did not know that. And then how your brothers adopted a Korean family,
00:17:56
Speaker
Probably in his family, you know, his daughter doesn't feel that difference. She doesn't, nobody probably even notices that she's adopted. But in my case, everybody noticed because I was raised in a very North American family. But I don't know, do you want to touch on a little bit, recap what you talked about, that that break when they cut the umbilical cord?
00:18:23
Speaker
Yeah. um So, you know, like, as a doula, I see everything through birth and, you know, but somehow it all connects. But yeah, like when a baby is born, like literally just seconds, minutes after birth, they are still connected to the mom, right through the umbilical cord. They share the blood supply. They share their breath. like Everything is really connected. And then obviously you cut the cord, right? But after the cord is cut, or actually even before, they put the baby right onto to mom's chest.
00:18:54
Speaker
And we say like at least one hour uninterrupted skin to skin. like Let them be together. like They need to be together. The mom's body even actually at that point helps regulate the baby's body temperature like from the outside just by being skin to skin. and all of that. And so, so important to keep them together. And they kind of operate like a unit, like one single unit. There's a term for it, mama toto in Swahili, which literally means mama baby.
00:19:23
Speaker
And it's it's used as a term to to show that they are one almost still and interdependent on each other. And so imagine that bond being being short circuited right or cut too early before this phase is over right um we see then at that point this very real cut and it it forms almost like as a wound and we call it like a primal wound when
00:19:56
Speaker
this circuit is cut and now what was meant to be together is separated. And it's felt on such an emotional, mental level as well. Like your nervous system feels the separation. The baby feels it. The mom feels it. And so when we see...
00:20:12
Speaker
babies who are um given up for adoption, like, especially early on, or at any point, right, they carry around this primal wound that has to almost be rewired in order for them to learn how to um attach again to trust again, and build healthy relationships as they grow older. But that wound really can come back and impact the relationships that you have moving forward. So yeah,
00:20:41
Speaker
yeah Wow, thanks for taking time to explain that because even I'm thinking in my own situation, you know there has to be, I'm sure, situations, you know and i I don't remember, i don't i don't know what happened, but I'm just thinking back to my personal situation.
00:21:03
Speaker
If my mother wanted to give me up for adoption in some way, just emotionally, there's already that detachment. And then the physical detachment, probably i would be safe to say they didn't, I didn't have that hour with my mom, whether she didn't want it or whatever the situation was. But that really makes sense to me about why I did struggle Whether I was able to actually talk about it or name it or understand it as I was growing up, even up until my 30s, it just really makes sense to me why I struggled emotionally in certain areas of my life of ah rejection, abandonment, um the whole attachment, not feeling like I belong in certain circles, um able to have healthy relationships.
Identity Reflections of an Adoptee
00:22:02
Speaker
And so this really makes sense to me. And I really appreciate, I really value this conversation, even understanding more about myself as an adoptee, an adult adoptee.
00:22:14
Speaker
And I'm sure those who are listening to us, maybe it'll help make more sense, whether you're a parent, or you're an adoptive child, an adult. But just having a better understanding and of knowing about this kind of thing. And I remember when we were at the conference and you seen our book ah called Who's Am i And the fact that it was bilingual in Spanish and English. And you made the comment to me that, wow, this book should be translated even in Korean.
00:22:46
Speaker
Because we talked about, you know, there were so many of us, so many, abandoned babies that during that time post-Korean war that went to the United States, went to different countries to be adopted. And whether it's for the child to understand their identity, because all this goes back to our identity crisis. Like, whose are we?
00:23:12
Speaker
Where do we belong? You know, whether it's for us as adult adoptees or for parents who gave up their children to also understand that, you know, God has a greater plan for our lives. Can you maybe tell more, express more about why maybe you said that, that um statement?
00:23:35
Speaker
Yeah, I think right when i you know, heard about your book, heard you talk about the story behind it and all of it. And I thought about, I was like, surely it's in Korean too. She's Korean. Right. um But right away, I was like, this would be so good for those Korean parents who,
00:23:55
Speaker
you know, had to, what it for whatever reason, give up their kids, right? um Because the book, it captures the complexities and the struggles of children who have been adopted and their struggle, perhaps like with identity. And, you know, like the book says, it's like grappling with this question of who's am i right? Which I'm sure comes up over and over again. and I heard your story and I know that in Korea, there is like this long standing history, right, of the overseas adoption thing. And i will say that in Korean culture, there's often like this immense weight of unresolved grief and shame, perhaps surrounding that decision to give up a child, right? And oftentimes, I imagine birth parents are frequently told like,
00:24:47
Speaker
forget about it and move on, right? Just work, focus on your life, just move on. um As if the child and that part of their own life almost like never existed. But especially as a therapist, I know that the heart doesn't work that way. You can't truly ever forget someone, something that was a piece of you, right? And you only learn to bury it and that buried grief eventually becomes a very heavy burden that you just continue to carry in your life. And I believe the birth parents need this message, right? And and it's hard to to face, right? To face thinking about children who are now struggling because of a decision that you made, right?
Healing from Adoption's Emotional Impact
00:25:30
Speaker
Or a situation. And and it's hard to face that. um
00:25:35
Speaker
But when you bridge that, right? And you see the child struggle and heal, like as you're reading a book like this, right? And a birth parent can begin to understand and face not only the struggle, but the worth and true identity of a child.
00:25:53
Speaker
um that they let go, it almost allows them, I think, to reconnect with a part of their life that they've wanted to just put away. It gives them almost like permission to to face this. And I think from a very clinical perspective, it breaks the silence.
00:26:13
Speaker
And you see the struggle on the page, and it acts as a mirror. And so they can begin to face it and and transform perhaps that shame into something like empathy, right? And in a way, reconnect with your child, even if you don't meet face to face, but you get to reconnect with that part of you, grieve it like it's meant to be grieved and, and begin to um heal from it.
00:26:44
Speaker
It's hard facing those painful parts. Right. And i will say, am When you begin to face it, you begin to understand you are not the sum of one decision that you made um or one situation that occurred in your life, right? And and there is healing and and there is no shame in it.
00:27:04
Speaker
Exactly. And I so appreciate everything you just said because you are a fellow Korean the and you know, we both being Korean, we're, we're talking about our culture, our heritage. It's not like we're talking about some other, some other culture or some other person, but this is,
00:27:31
Speaker
This is us, near and dear to our hearts, people who who, where we came from. And so, but yet we have such a heart for foster adoption and we understand it from different signs sides of the coin. And so we're talking from our heart, but you are talking from a professional standpoint as a therapist. And so you you were able to express like about the parent and me from the child's perspective, you know,
00:28:08
Speaker
only the Lord could coordinate this, but if there was a Korean listening who, a Korean mom, biological mom who gave up her baby, um,
00:28:21
Speaker
Could be my mom. Who knows? Somebody's told they told me that one at one time. You know, oh my goodness, what if your mom listened was listening to you and she was still carrying that burden like you said?
00:28:36
Speaker
I would just want to encourage these moms and dads that number one, God is sovereign.
Encouraging Healing & Understanding
00:28:45
Speaker
He has the final word.
00:28:47
Speaker
His hand has been on my life. From before he formed me in my mother's womb, he knew me, he had a plan for me. I wasn't just plan B or C. Despite the trauma, despite despite the ah separation that I went through.
00:29:10
Speaker
I was able to walk through this healing process. um It's been a long process. There's been many facets of my story, but whether it was forgiveness, whether it's understanding who I am in Christ,
00:29:27
Speaker
The Lord has truly brought healing to my life and that there is no condemnation, that God wants to bring healing in the parent's life the same way he has brought healing to my life as a child. And so I want to encourage any parent, you know, to run to any type of counseling like Irene, who can help you through this walk, this process, because God wants us to be free.
00:29:59
Speaker
He wants us to be able to work through these things and experience his healing.
Therapy's Role in Adoption-Related Trauma
00:30:07
Speaker
And so, Irene, i would love for you to be able to um tell – whether tell the information about your practice, because I know I needed counseling. I sought out counseling and it's nothing to be embarrassed about. I thank God for people like you who who God has given the wisdom and the life experience to walk alongside of people like like me or parents um or moms, you know, who've walked through, whether they're biological parents or children, who've walked through this process. So please give any information you want to, website, your practice, where you're located, everything you can give.
00:30:53
Speaker
Yeah. So I practice in Maryland. I'm based out of Frederick, Maryland, and my my jurisdiction is within the state of Maryland. So you have to, even if you don't live in Maryland, you have to be in Maryland when you're getting your therapy to work with me. If you're not in Maryland, find your local therapist, right, for sure, and and get the help you need. My my website is kindledlife.com. And so that's my practice, Kindled Life, actually kindledlifetherapy.com. And so you can find me there. On that website is, like, my information about, like, doula stuff and therapy stuff and things like that. And I really just like you said, encourage people to begin their healing journey. I think so many people suffer in silence.
00:31:44
Speaker
And I think people believe silence is kind of their protection, right? It feels safer to keep things quiet, because it's scary to think about the implications of what people will think.
00:31:59
Speaker
you know, how this will impact your life, how, how much it will hurt just to dig up these things, right? um Especially something like trauma, which any parent who's had to give up their child experienced trauma, any child who was separated experiences trauma and trauma I feel like is this sometimes it feels like this big black hole inside of you that will like swallow you up if you let it out it just feels big and scary and and really painful and so it does take a lot of courage to to get help because you are going to be pretty much putting yourself in a very vulnerable place to face those things right um but
00:32:46
Speaker
it's the first and best thing you can do. um Unresolved to grief, unresolved resentment, anger, it doesn't just disappear, it just goes underground where it eats away at us, right? And so um to be able to speak its name,
00:33:05
Speaker
it almost disarms the power that it holds on you, right? You're bringing things to light. And and you don't do that just anywhere, right? Because some people don't have and the tools or the mindset to receive that or even to know what to say. And and for that reason, it can be more hurtful when you when you bring those things up if it's not in the right place, right? And so finding that safe place, especially if you need something where it's like therapy, where it's like a trained licensed person who knows how to walk with you through through those really difficult things, I think is hugely important. um
00:33:43
Speaker
And just like you said, i so important for not only child, but for the mom, for the dad.
Foster Care & Emotional Healing Story
00:33:49
Speaker
um you know Going back to what I was saying about when were doing foster care, right? That one kid who stayed with us for eight years and we walked with him those eight years, oh my goodness, countless therapy sessions.
00:34:03
Speaker
every day I'm getting a call from his school, I'm going to his school almost every day, we're just walking through it with him, right. But I know that on the mom's side, we had a relationship with the mom as well. And so I'd be on the phone with her all the time and see the struggle that she's going through her ups and downs, her fight to get back on her feet and and then not being able to, and then having to have given up her, not just one kid, but four kids and, and her fight to kind of get back and how hard that was for her. I mean, there was a period she hated me, right? Because it was threatening, like it's another mom and this mom who looks better than me, like a better mom than me and all those things with her baby. Right. And, um,
00:34:52
Speaker
thankfully we got to a place where she knew that we weren't just trying to take him from her. We were trying to protect their, their bond, like their family unit. And yes, if needed, we would have adopted him.
00:35:07
Speaker
But before that, we really felt it in our hearts that if at all possible, they should be back together if at all possible. And so it was really cool to be able to, um,
00:35:23
Speaker
see that side of it too, like the parent side of it. And to see her get back on her feet and see her heal through everything she went through on her end.
00:35:36
Speaker
and And then to see them back together, um it was really, really beautiful.
00:35:44
Speaker
Wow. Thank you, Irene. I hear so much wisdom, so much life experience in this whole world of foster and adoption. Thank you so much for the part that you have played, that how God's used your life to minister to so many foster kids.
00:36:02
Speaker
um us as adoptees and parents. And so I am so thankful for your time today. And I know that we're going want to have you back because you're a fountain of just wisdom and experience and professional experience.
Episode Conclusion & Gratitude
00:36:23
Speaker
advice that you can give us. And it was just such a pleasure to have you. So thank you to all of our viewers for just taking time with us to pause and think today. And we hope to have you back again.
00:36:38
Speaker
Thank you so much, Jackie.
00:36:42
Speaker
Thanks for joining us for this episode of Pause and Think. For more resources and information, go to whosami.org.