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Healthy Interiors with Matter of Stuff
95 Plays4 years ago
GUESTS / SIMONA AUTERI & SOFIA STEFFENONI
HOST / MATT MORLEY
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Transcript
Introduction to Episode 32
00:00:11
Speaker
Welcome to episode 32 of the Green and Healthy Places podcast, in which we explore the worlds of wellbeing and sustainability in real estate and hospitality. I'm your host, Matt Morley, founder of Biofilico Healthy Buildings and BioFit Wellness Concepts.
Sustainable Furniture Consultancy: Matter of Stuff
00:00:28
Speaker
This episode I'm back in London, UK talking to the two Italian founders of Matter of Stuff, a furniture procurement consultancy that offers bespoke manufacturing via a network of craftsmen as well as research and development of new materials and manufacturing processes.
00:00:45
Speaker
My conversation with Simona Altieri and Sofia Stefanoini focuses specifically though on the sustainable material side of their offer. It is worth noting that their range goes far beyond that, inspired at least in part by their links to artisans throughout their home country.
Locally Sourced Materials and Circular Economy
00:01:02
Speaker
Here, though, we're digging into the importance of choosing locally produced building materials, considering materials' entire life cycle, and a circular economy approach to repurposing building waste. In terms of specific materials, the juicy stuff, we cover things like sustainable ceramics, clay plaster, live mycelium, recycled glass, biodegradable cork walls, and an ingenious sea stone product made of discarded seashells from the seafood industry.
00:01:32
Speaker
All of this is really just a reflection of the wealth of knowledge at the fingertips that these two young ladies have. And they're now setting their sights on construction materials in addition to interior surface materials. So expect to hear plenty more from them over the next year or so. If you like this type of content, please hit subscribe. You can find Simona and Sophia at matterofstuff.com. My contact details are in the show notes. Let's get into it.
00:02:02
Speaker
Yes, so I'm Simona and we're both architects.
Mission and Background of Matter of Stuff
00:02:07
Speaker
We set up much of stuff now seven years ago, wow, time flies. But we kind of came from the architectural background working in offices in London, such as ACME for Sophia, Heatherwick Studio for myself.
00:02:24
Speaker
And we kind of found a gap in between the manufacturing industry and what is the actual scenes of the architectural industry. So we are defining ourselves as a consultancy for both materials and procurement of furniture manufacturing. So we are actually
00:02:52
Speaker
I'm trying to fill the gap in between architects, interior designers and the manufacturing world really.
Architects' Needs in Sustainable Materials
00:03:03
Speaker
So are you finding that generally, is it perhaps that architects are focusing on the big picture and they perhaps have their regular materials, their go-to materials that it's easy for them to specify and in a sense you're trying to propose new ideas or sort of educate in a way or is it really that the sector has kind of got stuck and you're trying to push it forward? How do you see the space now after seven years of business?
00:03:30
Speaker
I mean, we are all very busy and we are all having very few seconds to make decisions and architects are not different from this. They have no luxury to take the time and really kind of research and discover new things. So I feel it's not that
00:03:48
Speaker
we are needed to the architect because they are not interested in the topic. It's just the topic has become so complex abroad. And their job has been kind of pushed so much into larger project and more complex that in a way is required for a figure like us to help in a way to navigate this very complex world of materials and sustainability and new production.
Handcrafted vs Industrial Perfection
00:04:16
Speaker
So I believe, you know, I think figures like us are needed to sort of guide and sort of speed up the process of new materials to come into use in project.
00:04:31
Speaker
How do you see the handcrafted in relation to say industrial production? How do you see the relationship between the two? Because there's the sort of the imperfections on the one side, that kind of wabi-sabi thing. But then in some contexts, and you mentioned offices, right? Offices are typically preferring almost an industrial approach to the furniture and the finishes. So how do you balance those two?
00:04:56
Speaker
Yeah, so we believe that we wrote the manifesto about perfection, imperfection, and debunking the myth of imperfection, really. Because we believe that in crafts, as opposed to kind of industrial production, the imperfection are a symbol of craft and added a little value.
00:05:27
Speaker
There are two way of manufacturing items. One is kind of producing at a large scale where items are produced in a line. And in that case, there is no
00:05:43
Speaker
The items are produced without a real demand, right? What we kind of value, what we kind of promote, really, is handcrafting. And so often, like small scale businesses, which are very dedicated to really high quality. However, there is a little thing about the
00:06:11
Speaker
the hand-making that goes and adds a little detail, and every item makes every item you need. That's what we value, that's what we preach, and that's what we take in highest consideration, really.
Carbon Footprint and Tree for Life Partnership
00:06:34
Speaker
So if we then sort of begin the transition in the conversation towards sustainability, then there's this piece that I noticed you've really thought through clearly around your own carbon footprint for the furniture projects that you're involved in. So could you just explain how you've implemented that, how you've integrated this sort of carbon footprint measurement tool into the project management system you have online? Because I hadn't seen that done before and it seemed like a really
00:07:04
Speaker
obvious and therefore brilliant concept, right? So how did you implement it and how has that gone so far for you? Yeah, so for basically for every piece of furniture that we sell or we deal with, there is a little code, a little number that kind of assigns a carbon footprint of every object.
00:07:29
Speaker
And for when we add up in a schedule, all those numbers, then we kind of come up with a total quantity of carbon footprint emitted. And then we tried to offset it by partnering up with Tree for Life. Tree for Life is actually a charity set up in Scotland. And Scotland was the first place on earth to declare a climate emergency, actually, so that's why
00:07:58
Speaker
We'll go there and try to rewire the landscape.
00:08:02
Speaker
Having said this, I think Carbon Footprint is the last resource of companies to make a difference.
Innovative Material Research
00:08:14
Speaker
I think everybody should do it, all the companies should do it. However, as an influence maker, change maker, we try to go at the root of the problem and try to research for what we can
00:08:29
Speaker
the materials that can actually change and transform the industry and for this we have kind of researched a set of materials such as recycled terrazzo materials such as mycelium such as expanded cork and
00:08:51
Speaker
And we try to use and promote these materials and the kind of thinking behind the building and the construction industry.
00:09:05
Speaker
There are many ways potentially to influence the market in kind of changing. And one is kind of triggering thoughts and like reflection and topics of how it's anything from furniture to interior design to the actual construction. We can do bricks in kind of virgin material or we can do bricks breaking down
00:09:34
Speaker
an existing building and rebuilding it from the materials that are actually used in the destruction of the actual building.
Local Production and Circular Economy
00:09:45
Speaker
I think
00:09:47
Speaker
In a kind of larger scale of things in the construction, we need to start thinking about also localizing the production. So bringing it actually into the manufacturing can be shifted in a way that happens on place in a way. So close to the construction site and close to the manufacturing
00:10:16
Speaker
the installation site in a way. What I mean by this is, for example, we've worked with recycled plastic. And recycled plastic is a super interesting concept and idea. However, if it is shipped from Italy, let's say, to Los Angeles in California, then it doesn't really become so sustainable.
00:10:40
Speaker
What we could do, for example, is set up a sort of, it kind of triggers intellectual property as well and like open source research and kind of go and set up a plant in California, for example, and use localised suppliers for that matter. So then, okay, so I'm seeing there's really almost two axes to every
00:11:07
Speaker
decision around what material you could use in a project. On one level it's, as you say, perhaps it's a fundamentally recycled material but then also where it's produced and the distance it needs to travel to get to the site because you're adding, once you factor in the full carbon footprint or a full lifecycle analysis of the material,
00:11:28
Speaker
you have to factor in also where it's coming from and where it's going to. So then you'd end up with a, okay, what can you use sustainable materials and locally produced? Is that sort of the ideal scenario?
00:11:43
Speaker
Yeah and the final thing that you need to add to that is also the life cycle of a material so once you finish the project you're not done at all. You have all this new life of materials that need to be done repurposed from the building that you have completed and a steady slow life cycle. So it is about adding a third element to sustainability thought which is
00:12:05
Speaker
How can I then reuse this material that I've used in my project, in another project, and so on, creating a circular process of reusing all your waste? Because at the end of the day, we don't have a problem of resources. We only have a problem of a massive amount of waste we are generating. So by shifting the thoughts on these three topics, you can really make the massive differences on how the interior and architecture is conceived as overall.
00:12:36
Speaker
I think that's a really strong point. I like that.
Bespoke Ceramics and Recycled Materials
00:12:38
Speaker
Okay. So if we then go one level deeper and start looking at some of the materials, right? I mean, some of these might be familiar to people listening. Some might be a bit, might be new or innovations, but let's start with a relatively easy one. So ceramics, you've got some really interesting ceramic tiles on option on display on your site. Generally, how do you see, including some that seem to have like
00:13:01
Speaker
industrial waste made of iron and manganese and metal, they really caught my attention. How do you communicate those to a potential client in terms of why you would use certain types of ceramics or which are maybe more resilient? What are the characteristics that define them?
00:13:19
Speaker
So ceramic, it's a very exciting material, I think, because it's been used for centuries. We have so much knowledge gathered around it. And really, I think what we have tried to convey in our selection of ceramics is mainly how can we do it in a more sustainable way so that the impact of an oven at
00:13:38
Speaker
1200 degrees doesn't become a problem as carbon emissions. So we actually selected mainly companies and independents that are trying to use ceramic in an interesting way. So the first thing is we don't have a range or set of ceramic tiles. We only make them bespoke to the need of a client. So we are not producing in line, but we are actually producing only on demand, which is a massive shift.
00:14:07
Speaker
to how ceramic is conceived. This means we don't create wastage because we obviously don't produce more than what is demanded, but also we only turn on the oven when it's necessary, which is another point. And then I think there is
00:14:22
Speaker
really interesting thing because ceramic is made out of irons and sort of glazing that it's mostly having chemical reaction in the oven and by actually trying to recycle metal waste we are regenerating those materials that are actually polluting the environment into a product that can actually have beautiful color as a normal glazing by reusing something that would be actually poisoning landfills so
00:14:52
Speaker
There are also a lot of other kind of very interesting topics such as how a glazing in a specific color is more toxic than other glazings. So we try to really guide our client and architect to understand what they are really purchasing and only purchasing what is really necessary.
Health Benefits of Clay
00:15:12
Speaker
Okay, so two questions. One, the recycle content is the pigment only, right? The ceramic tile is the ceramic tile, then it's the glaze on top that contains these other components. And you mentioned there's some toxic elements potentially in other types of ceramic tiles.
00:15:28
Speaker
Yeah so I mean in general when you when you create tiles you are having a body of clay that is the biscuit let's call it and you put it into the oven and you fire it and this is unglazed and then we use glass and metal particles and pigments to create the beautiful coloring of the surface of the tile. Obviously there are
00:15:50
Speaker
chemicals that are non-natural that could actually be poisoning and obviously we try to avoid those and try to only use things that are you know potentially natural source of coloring. Obviously by using some of these iron and manganese and other metals that were left in the in the landfills we are offsetting
00:16:13
Speaker
the pollution that they would generate and kind of colouring in a beautiful way, you know, interior tiles. So it's quite a nice shift as a mentality. And then would you see that as almost part of this similar family then as your clay plasters and paints? Because again, it's that sort of connection to one of our most ancient building materials, right, effectively a form of earth. Yeah, clay and earth is one of the oldest material humans have used.
00:16:41
Speaker
I think the main difference with clay plaster and paints is that you're actually using the clay unfired so you're not turning on an oven you are mixing it with different type of pigments or or you know silica and things that can create really beautiful coloring and then you're just plastering walls with it. What is also quite important is that clay has incredible properties it's actually an annealing material we use it
00:17:09
Speaker
you know as a face mask we use it as well to cure our sort of joints when they are a bit stiff. So clay has this really strong natural power of healing and by using it as a natural product on your walls you are creating a surface that is hypoallergenic but has also ability to regulate humidity inside a room which is something that is very important for the health of you know of as humans in indoor
00:17:37
Speaker
Okay, so that's another interesting
Green Buildings and Health Balance
00:17:39
Speaker
point, right? Because for some of us, we work at the intersection between green buildings and healthy buildings. And I notice in the way you're describing these materials, we're sort of
00:17:50
Speaker
flipping between environmental concerns so what's the impact of this material or product on the planet as in has a kiln been fired at 1200 degrees for six hours or not what what's the energy impact of that and then on the other side you have the people or the human angle which is what's the health aspect of that particular product right so balancing the two in terms of the impact the material has on the planet but also on the
00:18:18
Speaker
potentially positive impact it can have on the health of the people spending time in that space. Simone, you mentioned mycelium earlier on as well. Within the context of that people and planet environment and wellbeing, how does mycelium fit in? Because it's this new material that's suddenly getting talked about so much. What's your take on that and its potential?
Mycelium in Sustainable Construction
00:18:44
Speaker
Yeah, it's biophilic.
00:18:47
Speaker
I mean, there's something interesting in designing with live material, right? We can kind of plan the outcome and we can kind of control it in a way that it comes to a desired form or shape or certain performances.
00:19:14
Speaker
What's great about mycelium is that is a fungus and it grows by eating some kind of
00:19:24
Speaker
organic matter and then what we can do we can stop the growth of the material once it's reached the shape and the performances that we want and we can kind of seal it in a way that it stops growing and it starts actually performing but after its life cycle as a building material for example if an office needs to be turned down in
00:19:50
Speaker
in 10 years' time, then the acoustic panel that is composed of a museum can be taken out of the wall and thrown in compost, and actually it biodegrades with nature. I think that's something completely beautiful. And it's new, of course. There's so much of this research that it's
00:20:15
Speaker
has been gone through, I think as a consequence of the Greta Thunberg movement a couple of years ago, people are getting a lot more aware and I think governments are investing a lot more into funding and subsidising also research and design and new manufacturing processes that are innovative and
00:20:40
Speaker
have something new to give to the construction industry. I think that's great and it's the only way forward in a way.
Recycled Glass in Design
00:20:53
Speaker
In a similar line then, you also have some recycled glass panels. I noticed there's some made in the UK, 100% recycled glass from that location, so it's ticking the local box if you had a local project in London or the UK, right? How might one integrate those glass panels? Because they look quite, they're quite a particular finish, right? It doesn't come out as glass, it's
00:21:22
Speaker
type of material effectively. How are you seeing them used or deployed in interior projects? Have you gotten examples of how those have been used perhaps by clients?
00:21:35
Speaker
So recycled glass, it's an amazing opportunity for all of us because glasses, again, we go back to one of the oldest material human I actually work with. Most of our recycled glass are taking shape into a pixel, let's call it, that could be repeated, either creating chandeliers or creating sort of new wall systems with other materials, as well as the
00:22:01
Speaker
a recycled glass with eggshell, which becomes actually an incredible tool to control acoustic performances into a room. So by actually changing completely the composition, you add the eggshell and this creates a material that is almost like a pomme stone type of thing, so it's very light.
00:22:21
Speaker
very porous and can actually trap the sound wave inside in a very, very special way. So we simply use glass as a new material, but in a way we can re-recycle it infinitely because it's only about melting again the glass and sort of keep on adding on it.
00:22:45
Speaker
Also what is quite interesting about being very local is that you use the glass, the type of glass you have very close to you, so you control the quality of the glass and the colors and therefore you can start creating patterns and so to composition that.
00:23:01
Speaker
are controllable and predictable. We have also created recycled glass reception desk or even tables, which is quite interesting and exciting, but we mostly work with designers or private client that want to are interested in the material and then we come up with a beautiful design for it.
00:23:24
Speaker
Okay, so we have a couple of alternative options for acoustic panels with the mycelium and the recycled glass. The recycled glass can also be almost kind of like decorative panels, but the mycelium, I noticed, can also be a type of floor tile.
Sustainable Use of Cork
00:23:41
Speaker
Talking about the walls, I noticed you've also recently started working with a Portuguese cork wall supplier, corks. Some of the finishes there and the designs that they have really
00:23:54
Speaker
They're amazing. It's not what you would expect from a piece of cork, right? So from your perspective in terms of sustainability, location, sustainability, what are the perhaps advantages and characteristics of those new cork products that you're working with?
00:24:09
Speaker
Well, I mean, I think the main purpose of design is to innovate and make a material look new and interesting. So what Django has developed with Kork is I think the ultimate design plus onto a material that has been seen and kind of used a lot. So it's quite interesting to work with a Portuguese company with Kork because they are the biggest production of Kork in all Europe.
00:24:36
Speaker
and the trees are protected so they can only harvest cork in specific way and they need to ask permission to the government to actually, you know, pick up the bark and produce it. So it's very controlled process and this is because they don't want to arm ever the plant.
00:24:53
Speaker
Also, by using cork we are using something that is completely renewable because it's only the skin of the tree and therefore it can be constantly grow so it's harvested normally six years leaving the tree the time to regenerate.
00:25:10
Speaker
Expanded cork is produced differently from normal cork. We use high steam and this makes the cork pop like a popcorn and expand and it kind of binds the material together with the resin of the trees instead of using a lot of other product or glue or epoxy resins. So this means again our cork panels are 100%
00:25:34
Speaker
biodegradable and organic, and they could be recycled in a new panel. And I feel cork is used for insulation of facades and many other purposes, but has never been pushed into a beautiful material that can be actually a facade or an interior clothing. So the main purpose of this panel is generating a new aesthetic, a new three-dimensional surface, and almost they can be carved as a piece of marble, really.
00:26:04
Speaker
not only becoming a wall but it could potentially be used even to create bespoke furniture or a reception desk or you know seamless moving from a floor to a wall to a ceiling panel which is quite exciting I think for designers out there. Yeah it's a really strong example of what can be done as you say taking it in a very new direction as
Seashells in Eco-Friendly Terrazzo
00:26:27
Speaker
well.
00:26:27
Speaker
Finally, then I wanted to ask you about the recycled sea stone terrazzo that you have because it just seems to have this beautiful story about the tons and tons of discarded seashells. Is that from the seafood industry? Is that the story? Have I got that right?
00:26:44
Speaker
Yeah, you got it quite right. Yes, we basically, it's a project developed by two designers that studied in London. It's a very exciting project where they actually started looking at how the seafood industry is kind of, you know, dumping a lot of these really beautiful material because it's actually
00:27:01
Speaker
calcium carbonate and we normally feed this into our production by you know kind of like seeking it while we are then throwing it away and sort of creating a lot of waste. So by reusing it and creating a composite that is
00:27:17
Speaker
kind of natural. They are generating a new type of concrete. They were actually asking a point to try and make this structural to really replace concrete entirely. And it's quite interesting how much attic there is behind this product because the designer actually
00:27:34
Speaker
don't want this because as soon as you start trying to give more performances in terms of strength they will have to add heat to the production and this would take away this completely non-toxic, completely like low carbon emission material which I find very interesting because
00:27:53
Speaker
in a way, all our work revolves around one single tote, which is how can we make this material cheap enough and sustainable enough to replace terrible materials that we are using? So if we are able to make mycelium a really strong competitor to polyurethane, for example, or to a really terrible acoustic panel made out of synthetic fibers,
00:28:23
Speaker
We are really shifting the industry and we are not anymore forcing people to say, oh, I need to spend so much more money to use this really sustainable material that is then maybe not behaving as I want. The real change and real shift into the industry could happen only if we make this product really permeable and easy to use.
00:28:44
Speaker
So ultimately, I think all our work revolves around trying to keep an attic around what these materials do and trying really to push them to behave in a way that can replace those terrible materials that we are working with now.
Researching Alternatives to MDF and Bricks
00:29:01
Speaker
One thing that I think is important to mention, we have only talked about surface material, which are only probably 10 or 15% of what is used in the industry. But we are working a lot on the vaccines to try and also scout for those materials that could really replace the larger quantity. So how can we do an MDF that is more sustainable or it's completely recyclable?
00:29:23
Speaker
or how can we replace entirely bricks with a new concept that doesn't require so much firing. So I think it's an interesting open quest, you know, and we all need to sort of exchange information and knowledge. And so that's why I think it's lovely what you're doing with this podcast, like trying to engage people to discover each other. And hopefully, you know, this can lead to more knowledge shared.
00:29:52
Speaker
among people in the industry. So if we flip that, I love it. If we then look at how you're engaging with the market.
Collaboration with Industry Professionals
00:30:01
Speaker
So are you working more at brand level? Are you advising construction companies? Are you collaborating with architects? Perhaps the range of different clients, if you could describe those and how you're delivering your services effectively.
00:30:18
Speaker
Yeah, so we work with both architects and interior designers, and of course, architects and interior designers are the changemakers, they are the main specifiers. We've worked with contractors before, we've worked directly with co-working spaces that have different locations in London, supply and furniture.
00:30:42
Speaker
And of course, there's a huge level of research that goes through. And for example, for furniture as well, like we've recently introduced a way to browse furniture on our website by sustainable properties. Say furniture have certified wood, or if they're made out of recycled material, if they are recyclable,
00:31:10
Speaker
And that's all research that we do and it's kind of a service of the people that, you know, we work with in a way. We believe in kind of free content, kind of sharing as much as possible, of course. London is quite a wild industry, but we are quite generous with our research. And yeah, so it's,
00:31:39
Speaker
We're open to new collaboration, we're open to private clients as well as construction companies. And we welcome all kind of, you know, trickery inquiries and new fun ways to, you know, just process like, you know, to think about spaces and like, and materials really.
00:32:07
Speaker
I love it. Well, it's really great what you're doing. I'm a big fan. How can people connect with
Contacting Matter of Stuff
00:32:12
Speaker
you? What's the best way for them to follow what you're doing and access some of that information that you have out there?
00:32:18
Speaker
Just drop us an email. Our general email is info at matterofstuff.com. And yeah, we'll get back to you. Instagram is welcome as well. It will just give us a call. Our phone number is on our website is www.matterofstuff.com. So look forward to hearing from all of you.
00:32:48
Speaker
Very cool. But we'll add the links in the show notes after this. Thank you both so much. Thank you. Thank you, Matt.