Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Harnessing the power of the sun and PoE with David Robinson of Mecho
18 Plays1 month ago
🥃 Dealer’s Choice
Hosts Jason Shearer and AK kick off Distilled Building Tech with their cocktail ritual. Guest David Robinson, Director of Automation at MECHO, goes classic with an Old Fashioned (Maker’s Mark or Knob Creek). Jason pours Sweetens Cove bourbon aged in sugar-maple barrels, and AK enjoys a Penelope Four Grain.
💡 Guest Spotlight
With over 30 years in lighting and daylight control, David’s career spans South Africa, the UK, and the U.S. He now leads automation for MECHO—part of Springs Window Fashions, the largest window covering manufacturer in the U.S.—bridging the gap between artificial and natural light.
☀️ Controlling the Largest Light Source
David explains MECHO’s move from electric lighting to daylight automation. Their SolarTrac system models each building in 3D, tracking the sun’s path and using rooftop radiometers to measure visible, infrared, and UV light. Algorithms compare those readings to ASHRAE standards and dynamically position shades for optimal thermal comfort and daylight balance.
💰 The ROI of Smart Shading
Automated shading boosts both comfort and savings:
- Reduces HVAC load by blocking solar heat gain before it enters the space.
- Dims artificial lighting through daylight harvesting.
- Saves time and labor—one Los Angeles project saw full payback in under a year from eliminating manual shade adjustments.
⚙️ Integration & Control
MECHO systems connect through BACnet, dry contact, or increasingly API integrations. Their Power over Ethernet (PoE) motors provide low-voltage power and addressable control, with each motor supporting up to eight API addresses for flexible zoning and sequencing—mirroring how advanced lighting systems are orchestrated.
🔌 Why PoE?
Moving from line voltage to PoE drastically simplifies cabling, lowers installation cost, and enables software-defined control. Each shade motor runs on Cat6 cabling directly from a PoE switch—no heavy conduit, no localized power panels—making systems faster, scalable, and future-proof.
🧠 IT/OT Convergence
As networks merge, MECHO designs with full TLS and 802.1X security, ensuring smart building systems meet enterprise cybersecurity standards. The team stresses resilience over isolation—secure, connected automation beats “air-gapped” legacy setups.
🌐 The PoE Consortium
David also serves as President of the PoE Consortium, uniting 30+ companies to set standards, interoperability, and education for PoE. The mission: make low-voltage, network-powered systems mainstream across lighting, shading, and building automation.
Learn more at poeconsortium.com and mechosystems.com/poe.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:20
Speaker
All right, welcome everybody to the Distilled Buildings Tech Podcast. Where smart buildings are shaken, stirred, and data-driven. And I'm your host, Jason Scheer. i' your host, AK. All right, and today we are joined by David Robinson from Mecco. David, welcome to the show.
00:00:36
Speaker
Yep, thanks very much, Jason. Thanks, AK. ah Glad I could join you, and good to be here. Excellent. Um, and you know, as, as always, like we start the show off with the, uh, with dealer's choice,
Favorite Cocktails Discussion
00:00:49
Speaker
right? Like whoever the guest is, um, we're always curious, uh, what you are drinking, like what your favorite cocktail is. And we'll just have to talk, talk a little bit about, about that. so what's your, what's your, uh, your, your poison, David.
00:01:02
Speaker
Out of, out of many, i think i will, I always resort back to an old fashioned, um, which, um, With the complexity of different bourbons, you can you can really get some nice ones. You can really get some not so nice ones.
00:01:17
Speaker
But yeah, I'm a Maker's Mark or a Knob Creek fan. Those those are my two bourbons of choice. And i just I just like the smooth, rounded taste of it. And I really, really, really enjoy it as a s sipping cocktail.
00:01:34
Speaker
Yeah, awesome. Can't go wrong. Yeah. and And one thing that's interesting about about old fashions to me, and AK and i are both are are equally old-fashioned fans. Yeah.
00:01:46
Speaker
is just like the the diversity, like like different techniques and styles. you know Sometimes you'll see you know orange and cherry. Sometimes you'll see um you know like no garnishes. And now we're all we're also starting to see a lot of um you know not even not even bourbon or rye old fashions, like a lot like even different spirits being used in those in those cocktails. So pretty pretty interesting ah category.
00:02:13
Speaker
Yeah, i'm i'm I'm not a great one for for adding the the the caramelized fruit to it, either the cherries or or the or the orange, the dried orange. I just i just like it straight up but a little bit. i actually use a refined cherry syrup, which which tends to just give it that that slight the hint of cherry to it. But that's where I leave it. It's actually pretty pleasant. Yep, excellent. Bitters or no bitters?
00:02:41
Speaker
I haven't got bitters tonight. No. ah i'm i'm a I'm on the fence with bitters. yeah i've I've got three or four different types and I'm on the fence.
00:02:52
Speaker
yeah they can kind of they They can either make or ruin a drink, I think. Yeah. yeah Depends how many drops. yeah ah That is critical. I mean, i I've done it before with two drops, and two drops can action can can often feel too too heavy.
00:03:08
Speaker
And anything more than that, it actually ruins the drink. So that's why I just, but ah with a with a decent reprieve, I've got the aged one, and I just leave the bitters off. So that's the bourbon of choice tonight?
00:03:20
Speaker
Yep. Okay. What about you, Jason? right. Tonight. So this is kind of a, a one that I had never heard of before. So, uh, sweetens cove. So Tennessee bourbon whiskey, um, aged in sugar, maple wood barrels.
00:03:38
Speaker
Um, and it's pretty hot. It's like a one 10 proof. So 55 or, uh, one 10 proof, like 55%, but it's a really, it's a sneaky 110 proof bourbon.
00:03:50
Speaker
Oh, it's smooth. Yeah. Really, really smooth. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. And look at the sticker. I saw the the green, so I was always thinking rye. Rye. yeah Yeah. What you got? Penelope.
00:04:02
Speaker
ah Penelope. Yeah. Back to Penelope, four green. um it just It's a summer drink for now for me it's ah It's a little on the lighter side. It's it's got <unk>s got that sweet taste to begin with also. And it's it's perfect.
00:04:15
Speaker
There's yeah no bitter. It's little bit of garnish. ye it's ah It's a great drink. Cheers. Excellent. Cheers. Cheers.
David Robinson's Career Journey
00:04:27
Speaker
david David, so give the audience your your career arc. talk Talk to us about how did Davis get to this point and and where did you start and how did you and you get to where you are? okay my My career started off as as an engineer, like like most people do.
00:04:41
Speaker
um Completely diverse. I actually went into heavy counter electrical engineering, um but I was ah favored light current and actually went into lighting.
00:04:53
Speaker
um Worked in in multiple disciplines of engineering for manufacturers, as well as consultants, lighting designers. and this is This stems from my career through South Africa, through the UK.
00:05:05
Speaker
so Spent a stint in Malaysia working for a lighting manufacturer um and then landed up ah running a lighting design practice in the UK and was a approach to actually run a division of MECO, who i currently ah work for in the UK.
00:05:26
Speaker
um That ah interview lasted about 10 minutes, and into the interview they said, we don't want you in UK, we want you in New York. Well, that was that. had to tell my wife, we're not moving to North London, we're moving to New York.
00:05:38
Speaker
That was a bit of a change. but So that's 14 years ago. But been in lighting, lighting design, control of lighting, and have ultimately landed up in the ability to control the light the the largest light source, being the sun, through shading systems for, oh, I don't want to give too much away, but over 30 years now, 33 years, years.
00:06:04
Speaker
So I've i've been a ah through all angles of of lighting and um And currently hold the position of director of automation for Meco, where I oversee all their automated lighting, their shading control systems, which includes controlling of, the as I said, the largest light source out there, which is the sun.
Lighting Innovations at Mecco
00:06:24
Speaker
that's That's fascinating. I was i was thinking, like what was the leap from ah artificial lighting to to natural lighting? But what was the but was the hardest part or like the most challenging part of of moving from electrical lighting to you know controlling light via via shades?
00:06:41
Speaker
Well, it was actually an easy transition for me. I'll i'll tell you why. i'm In the UK, um when I first worked for a lighting design practice, we were a very technical lighting design practice, and we always factored in, this is back in the early 2000s, we always factored in daylighting.
00:06:56
Speaker
This was before daylight factors became prevalent in lighting design. And we were one of the first consultancies who used to specify shades, ah believe it or not. um We did Royal Bank of Scotland, which was a big installation in in in downtown New ah London, where we we actually went to a lot of of of analytical data in terms of specifying what sort of shade we wanted, in terms of what quality of light we wanted into the space to supplement electric lighting. So it's always been in the back of my mind that
00:07:27
Speaker
Natural light it has to be in in harmony with your artificial light in terms of not only color temperature, but also the quality of light that is actually coming into the space. So i think it was a fairly natural progression for me to to move over to start controlling natural light.
00:07:43
Speaker
That's fascinating. and And for those who are unfamiliar, which Mecco is a big brand, there's very little of them. tell Tell us what Mecco does and what is it that they offer? Right. MECO is ah part of the Springs Window Fashions family. and We are the the largest window covering manufacturer in the in the US through all through various sectors.
00:08:07
Speaker
um But we MECO constitutes the commercial vision of um Springs and We are unique insofar as we've got a control system that that utilizes um some some really funky technology in terms of how we position shades during the course of the day. And just just to give you a five-minute geek tour of what we do, um we we typically use devices called radiometers. and We put them on top of a building.
00:08:36
Speaker
We evaluate the sky condition during the course of the day. So we look at visible light, infrared, as well well as ultraviolet. We then compare it to what ASHRAE says for that particular location on that particular day.
00:08:48
Speaker
And we can then work out ah a ah through a series of algorithms. We can then work out, based on the reading above that building, we compare it to what ASHRAE says it should be at that particular time and instance in the day, and we can determine whether it's clear or cloudy.
00:09:04
Speaker
Now, hand in hand with that, we actually model each building. So we we do a 3D model of the building. So we know the exact orientation um of each and every window through simple geometry. We know where the sun is every single minute of the day. We can then determine exactly when the sun is going to penetrate that window.
00:09:21
Speaker
And then based on the intensity through the the devices reading the sky condition above the building, we can determine based on either BTU load or we call it solar penetration, how far you want natural light to come into
Balancing Lighting and Temperature
00:09:35
Speaker
the space. We can then position this the shade ah accordingly during the course of the day.
00:09:39
Speaker
it's It's very much of a... a ah almost an organic way in which shades are controlled because they continuously, wouldn't say continuously move, but they move in accordance with the allowable sun and the allowable parameters that users have set up.
00:09:54
Speaker
um And it really it really is like a fascinating experience when you're in an office that is controlled by by solar track. You'll be sitting there having a conversation, then all of a sudden, like the shades will just like slowly go up or go down.
00:10:07
Speaker
um how and and and so And there's really there's two factors that and that you're trying to control. it's It's the lighting within the space and then also um the the temperature or like the solar radiation. So how do you...
00:10:21
Speaker
how do you balance those two and like how to like one take priority over the other? Okay. um we've We've actually got a unique way in which we do it. and Because we are measuring um radiation at at at the source beat on top of the building, and we we measure that in BTUs per square foot.
00:10:39
Speaker
We can then calculate through our modeling of each and every um glazed elevation. We can actually calculate on a minute-by-minute basis what the thermal loading is on the inside of the glazing.
00:10:50
Speaker
So if if the preference was to control shades through ah thermal loading, um we have the ability to actually position the shade to cut off that that thermal ah radiation coming into the space. It will always come through the glazing. It's what you do with it when it actually strikes the actual shade.
00:11:09
Speaker
And typically, we we try and advocate that people use vented pockets. In other words, as the heat comes in, it it hits the shade, it rises up as hot air that goes back into the plenum and is recirculated as part of the the actual cooling system.
00:11:23
Speaker
Or the other way is actually through natural daylight. And and that's where we position the shade based on um preferred um penetration zones of of how far you want natural light to supplement your artificial light to come into the space.
00:11:39
Speaker
And that is very much user-driven and space utilization-driven. um Typically, in an open space, um a corridor, you will allow more natural light to ingress into the space versus if you've got desks hot up against the window, you potentially want to block all direct sunlight. You you don't want that sunlight coming in, affecting the occupants of the space.
00:12:00
Speaker
So there's always that playoff between the two. um we've we've We've had some interesting buildings in terms of how we've measured or how we've been able to control the shades. One of the but the most interesting projects I've worked on was the Shard in London, um which was at one stage the tallest building. This is back in 2012. It was the tallest building in Europe ah for about a year.
00:12:25
Speaker
um But that that entire building was controlled via solar track um and based on thermal loading um on each of the elevations because they said if they allowed the shades to be up all the time, the AC system would have never been able to count to cater to ensure that the occupants were comfortable in that space during the course of the day.
00:12:45
Speaker
So some some interesting projects. So it's kind of it's kind of like a slider. you know On one end is allowing as much natural light as possible. And then on the other end is um like thermal comfort.
00:12:57
Speaker
Correct. Yeah. And it's it's often a playoff. And we have different different use cases where people will say they'll, they'll, they prefer the natural light to come in because for them, thermal radiation is important. We we we did ah a hospital in Alaska where they actually wanted the thermal radiation to come in because they they wanted to make use of that, that that natural daylight um in terms of its thermal capabilities. So we land up with some really interesting projects.
Shading Systems and Building Management Integration
00:13:28
Speaker
that's That's amazing. And then maybe you can explain some of the ROIs for some of this automation, because a lot of us think through automation and shades, and it's it's always, a ah sadly, it's an afterthought. And then once I hear your conversation, and Jason, to your point, if you have...
00:13:45
Speaker
you know, an office and you don't have to touch the shades. I mean, that's to me, it's a it's a no brainer. But why don't you tell us some of that? Yeah, ottawa I think the the obvious two criteria which you can directly mirror an ROI of is how the shading system influences other systems in the building. And the way, obviously, the first one is to mind from a lighting perspective,
00:14:09
Speaker
how it's going to aid the automated lighting system to dim down the lighting to make make sure that the task balance is maintained and on the task surface. so So if you align a degree of natural light to come in without impeding the thermal comfort of the occupants, you can then dim your artificial lighting down and hence realize the savings. Ever since the introduction of LED technology, that has become sort of second quiddle to one of the other big criteria where you can actually really see savings, and that is through HVAC system. How you can actually monitor and ensure that that thermal radiation doesn't actually enter the space, heat the people up,
00:14:50
Speaker
and actually react when people need to be protected. You look at a typical building that has got an HVAC system in that has got a thermostat. The thermostat is not at the window.
00:15:01
Speaker
The thermostat is typically at the door. The reason being, when somebody comes into a space, they want to turn that dial because they want to make the space cooler. It takes 15 to 20 minutes for that to react to actually get the VAV boxes open above that space to actually get the chillers moving and to actually drop the temperature in that space.
00:15:20
Speaker
We've got an immediate barrier when the sun is there, we actually block that thermal radiation from actually coming into the space. So immediately you have you you don't have to run that HVAC at that high or that low set point to actually chill the space down. We can actually do it through shading.
00:15:36
Speaker
and Yeah, you can it faster. And and is that a is that it like a very early design consideration, David, for like integrating the shading with the BMS system you know via BACnet or some other protocol? Or do do a lot of customers or or um um yeah owners, reps like think about that later in the game?
00:15:57
Speaker
The ones that have been um well deployed have always been early early adopters of that philosophy. And it's typically designers we have discussions with prior to the building even coming out the ground.
00:16:10
Speaker
And we've we've actually got a couple in the hand at the moment where they are really interested in the way in which we can reduce the thermal loading in the space. um mechanical engineers are very risk adverse. They will not downgrade the size of the HVAC plant. However, they can they can underrun that plant by 50% because of the saving we can afford in terms of thermal radiation coming into the space.
00:16:33
Speaker
But the the last factor where it becomes a difficult factor to measure With manual shades, we've actually had an independent consultant do a time calculator whereby if you had manual shades in a facility of typically a 40,000, 50,000 square foot floor plate, and they're all manual shades, a shade per window with a chain.
00:17:01
Speaker
The length of time it takes for people that are affected by direct sunlight or by thermal radiation to get up from their workstation, go to the chain, pull that that chain down to lower that shade, get back to their desk, maybe go past a water cooler on the way back, sit back at their desk, and maybe do that two or three times a day because they want to try and regulate the amount of light coming into the space.
00:17:23
Speaker
that payback, we, we did a building in Los Angeles and the actual payment for the entire shade system, including the automated system was less than a year, just in terms of the cost saving of the occupants of the space. ah ah off so Offsetting the labor of somebody physically like pulling on a chain to lower raising lower shades.
00:17:43
Speaker
Yeah. we've We've actually got quite a, quite a decent calculation tool for that. And, uh, it's And that's based on active users, where people actually want that natural daylight to come into the space. They will get up during the course of the day and leave that shade. But every time they get up, it's 30 seconds there, 15 seconds to pull the chain, 30 seconds back to their desk.
00:18:03
Speaker
so in a minute So that's three minutes a day, times it by the number of shades, typically manual shades on a floor, times it by the hourly rate of each one of those people. you are youre you're You're running telephone phone numbers before you know it.
00:18:18
Speaker
Yeah. Absolutely.
Efficiency with Low Voltage and PoE Technologies
00:18:19
Speaker
Yeah. And you look at the amount of no one gets up for a minute and comes right back to work. It's once you cross that, once you cut that train of thought, it's too hard to bring it back. And I appreciate that a lot because to your point, that automation between lights, shades to BMS system and and talk to us through the topologies that you're using now, you know, your automation being over low voltage and specifically POE. And how is that tied into lighting and BMS system?
00:18:47
Speaker
Yeah, um I mean, typically we have got various ways in which we can interface with auxiliary systems, be it lighting systems or building management systems.
00:18:58
Speaker
um The way in which we we typically tend to interface, and we we don't like to call it integration because We like the the shading system to do what it does. We like the the lighting system to do what it does because those two technologies tend to be fairly independent to one another and they're the best of of of breed when when deployed correctly.
00:19:17
Speaker
But um the way in which we can interface... is either either through dry contact, which is us it's it's historic, and we try and deter people from using it. Otherwise, BACnet is still widely deployed. um we It's most probably our most common form of override where the building management system wants to have that capability of reading um any one of our 65,000 BACnet points for each and every set point from a BTU perspective or each and every shade position.
00:19:49
Speaker
and actually overriding it based on thresholds that they set up within the logic of the bms system and then the the the third one which is um really becoming prevalent specifically with regards to the deployment of our poe technology is um api integration where um it it becomes second nature as to um what can be controlled what can be overridden from auxiliary systems like a lighting system um in terms of scene setting, in terms of of thresholds, in terms of occupancy, all these points very similar to what can be made available um on on a BACnet system, can be made available on on an API platform.
00:20:31
Speaker
the The difference being API is a lot more resilient and it is a lot faster and a lot more reliable. Agreed. And I think when you when when we think of API, I think we think of low voltage and and maybe specifically a power over Ethernet, because then you have that element of network connectivity between devices. And then you can you can now put the lighting and the shading system under the same network and you have software-defined algorithm.
00:20:59
Speaker
And then you can now create that logic, which which i I agree with. It's much more simpler to have the lighting control the shading and unless you want to do the reverse. Yeah.
00:21:10
Speaker
I think our latest platform is is obviously PowerRiver Ethernet. We've got the ability to actually interface ah with multiple lighting systems um through that.
00:21:21
Speaker
And it it gives us the capability of individually addressing motors and and having motors individually controllable via the lighting system. and and And these are all, it's a simple address. So we actually, each motor is individually addressed.
00:21:36
Speaker
You can control them individually from an API. You can control them in a group um or you can control them per elevation. And but then within our motors, we're fairly unique insofar as we can actually put eight addresses in each motor.
00:21:52
Speaker
So you can have a shadow address, you can have a brightness address, you can have a reflection address, you can have a standard motor address, you can you can have all sorts of auxiliary zone addresses as well. So you can you can set it up with...
00:22:07
Speaker
how it can respond to different calls. um and In essence, each motor can can respond to eight different API calls depending on the strategy which is being deployed.
00:22:19
Speaker
Cool. what was the So so we were we are starting to see many, many more vendors get um kind of on board with the the POE strategy, right? I think they think they see a a value around like cable ones for data and power.
00:22:34
Speaker
what was the like What was the aha or like the compelling business reason for from for MECO to to go down the POE path, David? um I think it started many years ago, I'd say 12 years ago when our drive, we were traditionally a line voltage shading company. So everything was line voltage. Everything needed to have a line voltage supplied to it.
00:22:58
Speaker
And um it was just driven into each and every project at the offset. They were already budgeted in for running heavy-duty cables in pipe, and it would be a J-Box per shade.
00:23:11
Speaker
We then... um brought a low voltage motor into the marketplace and actually we saw that shift from line voltage to low voltage and but it still necessitated fairly extensive home runs of um significantly sized cable it would be a 18.2 and a 22.2 so it'd be two for power and two four for um communication Each one of those motors needed a home run back to a power panel, and a power panel would supply 10 motors.
00:23:41
Speaker
So if if you had a centrally located, you could still have those runs up to 200 feet. The advantage of power over Ethernet, it simplifies things significantly because now you're looking at a category cable which can run out from a switch to a node location which can be adjacent to the motor head.
00:23:59
Speaker
So there's significant cost reduction in terms of a single run of cable that goes to a node, and each one of those nodes can now control and supply two motors.
00:24:10
Speaker
So immediately you have increased your fan-out capability um of of how you can Firstly, supply them with the necessary power to move that that that shade system, the touch-shave motor, but also have the the ability to individually address that motor to give you individual controllability.
00:24:32
Speaker
Yeah, and I have to imagine like having that individual control controllability, um you can't daisy-chain multiple devices because you can say, okay, you know activate this motor,
00:24:44
Speaker
And after that action is then activate the next one, activate the next one, activate the next one. So you can be a lot more efficient with the cabling maybe. um i learned The way we do it is everything actually goes back through the switch. So all all our command strings go back through the switch, through the PLE switch.
00:25:00
Speaker
So when when a motor is instructed to do something, you can put a forwarding address on it to say, speak to all the motors on this floor that have got the fourth address as number 51.
00:25:12
Speaker
And it'll go out back to the switch and it'll push them and a signal out to each one of the motors. And that's if it's got a fourth address as number 51, they will respond to that to that particular command.
00:25:24
Speaker
So it gives us significant flexibility. And it's as I said, it's it's merely category cable that goes back to the switch. There's no extensive four-conductor 18-gauge or 16-gauge cable running back to a power panel.
00:25:39
Speaker
And that structured cabling probably gives us a lot of like future proofing, right? Of, you know, whatever the next technology is, like structured cabling will probably support that. and Correct. Yeah. Yeah.
00:25:53
Speaker
Yeah, I learned a long time ago that shades sequencing of control shades is not ah probably not an idea, right, David? You want those shades to go on and up and down at the same time, similar to lighting. And it and it was ah it was fascinating to see like the the accuracy of how they control shades to the eye So you you don't want to see that the difference between the shades going up or going down versus, you know, natural eye. and We don't really pay attention, when especially when it comes to lighting.
00:26:23
Speaker
Same exact model. You want those lights to no popcorn effect. You want all of them to dim at the same time and all of them come back on. So PoE, somewhat new. MECO, been around for a long time.
00:26:35
Speaker
Are there any, when we think about like customer outcomes and the reason that either a customer or an MEP firm like really, really advocated for and like leveraging automated shades on PoE, like is there a specific customer, like a success story that that jumps to mind for you, David?
00:26:55
Speaker
i'm I'd say that the bulk of our customers to date have either been financial institutions, there's been a major adoption of that, all legal firms. We've had a significant uptick in terms of large legal practices.
00:27:10
Speaker
That is wanting the ability to have that individual control yeah and future-proofing it for what may come Day two. we do we yeah um we've we We've done some some some' really aspirant technology companies as well that have opted for POE, successful installs. People are people are happy with with with with what has been happening.
00:27:35
Speaker
and how it is controlled um and the granularity of the controllability of it. And I think the biggest benefit that we've seen coming out of PoE is the way in which it can be interfaced with auxiliary systems through an API.
00:27:50
Speaker
Yeah. The challenge is, and I'll put it out there, not all POE lighting systems have been delivered equal. um if you if you get there There are systems out there that some of them are becoming legacy systems now, but from an API perspective, they they've got very little control in terms of how they actually go and broadcast messages. So we we we actually still challenged on one of our sites where we we we get we get flooded by 10,000, 12,000 calls a
Healthcare Integration and Challenges
00:28:25
Speaker
second.
00:28:25
Speaker
These people just cannot, they cannot figure out where their servers are actually pushing these calls out from. And the first thing that people see is the shades not working because they press a button.
00:28:36
Speaker
ah from a lighting system, they press a lighting button to control a scene for shades and the shades don't move. So of course we get the complaint to say your shades don't move. Shades are broken. Yeah. You said, shades, look at your, your browser. You can move the shades perfectly. It's, it's the, it's the call from the API. So I think, I think that's, that's still the challenge which we have to overcome.
00:28:55
Speaker
Um, but, uh, I think it's, it's slowly but surely, uh, we are separating, um, the real men from the rest of the the bunch with regards to lighting POE lighting control systems. but yeah Some of them just weren't up to it.
00:29:12
Speaker
Yeah. And I think that that's just the natural progression, right? Of of taking a, um you know, kind of taking ah an old business and digitizing it, and you know, just that, just that, that interfacing component. and One, one, one thing around that, that, that customer, you know, propensity to, to implement,
00:29:31
Speaker
you mentioned two verticals, one financial services and the other legal, which are ah traditionally like very conservative and risk averse.
00:29:41
Speaker
and Exactly. for Verticals. Right. So that to me, that's like, that's like a leading indicator that um like this technology is not just ready for prime time, but you know, it's kind of like over that, that Jeffrey Moore crossing the chasm hump.
00:29:55
Speaker
we ah Another one which we're seeing a fairly ah accelerated adoption rate now is in healthcare. yeah And um they they really want to, because in in some of these hospitals that we're dealing with now, they... they The cost of a patient room it can run into thousands of dollars an hour.
00:30:18
Speaker
They do not want downtime in that facility for somebody coming in having to check a controller in the space. If you can have a motor with a category cable running out of it to outside the space and you can service it from outside the space,
00:30:30
Speaker
it's just And the ability to interface it to various bed controls and touchscreens, and a lot of them are becoming iPad control facilities now where they give the patient the iPad.
00:30:43
Speaker
They've got everything on it, the lighting the lighting, the TV, the shades, the position of the bed, the the could the nurse call capability, earrings on that iPad, and it all works through APIs.
00:30:54
Speaker
Yeah. And, and, and we see that like patient room of the future, whether it's, you know, an iPad or voice control, right. We take it, we take it, we take it for granted in our homes of having voice control over different, you know, like IOT type systems. But, um, we definitely see healthcare leaning in, in that space and thinking about like touchless, right? Like every time there's a touch in a healthcare environment, like that's a you know, that's a, the transmission risk. So if you can eliminate touches, that is,
The Role of PoE Consortium
00:31:23
Speaker
that's huge in healthcare. care Yeah, yeah. We're actually dealing with two or three nice medical facilities at the moment.
00:31:30
Speaker
ah One in Connecticut, one in Massachusetts, one in New Jersey. They've all chosen to go down the POE route, which is really interesting. Excellent. And one one network in that patient room rather than like 10 different networks of systems. Yeah. yeah And i I think one of the challenges has always been um early days when you start speaking to these people, you get the IT people on the call and they immediately, yeah you want to put something on a network. That's where the shutters come up.
00:31:59
Speaker
And they they don't understand the difference between an OT network and an IT network, or they may understand it, but they don't want to understand it. They just think, yeah, network. And um I think that's always been one of our challenges as to how to how to get through to the right people to ensure that we can convince them of the security of the system that we're actually installing.
00:32:20
Speaker
I think that's that's a huge part, like because of some high profile, I'll say like retail retail um breaches, right? Like nobody wants... No IT t company, no CIO wants to be like um the next the next vector you know being the shades of the lighting system. So I think that's why it's so important for like security to be front mind.
00:32:44
Speaker
Yeah. And that's what we're seeing. When it comes to the conversion between OT and IT, t a lot of the OT devices, to David's point, were not up to part. Now unifying that with one hardware, or at least a minimum amount of hardware that supports that true IT t security compliance to make sure that when it is deployed on the production network and let's not air gap everything just for the sake of air gap in it, because you want that building automation system, you want that hardware to be resilient, supportive of, you know, TLS certificate and 802.1X and all the best practices that you want to use to your IT and OT systems.
00:33:22
Speaker
Awesome. david You belong to, sorry, yeahp you're part of an active or where you're active on on an organization named Peewee Consortium. Why don't you tell us what that means and and why did you join and obviously active?
00:33:35
Speaker
Yeah, um I think it was just over three years ago. um There were a number of manufacturers that came together and and wanted to really ah put POE on the map in terms of trying to bring ideas together.
00:33:48
Speaker
um how How can we bring everybody in the industry together and and come forward as a united front? um Instead of having a splintering of half a dozen manufacturers all trying to push their own ideas, their own topologies, their own strategies, it was fragmented. um We were never going to succeed.
00:34:08
Speaker
So the POE consortium was... was ah born And um it's it's a fairly unique organization insofar as we are we're all competitors, but we're all friendly competitors insofar as we're all working towards the common goal of education.
00:34:29
Speaker
getting people up to speed with regards to the technology, um driving standards so that ultimately everything can be interoperable in terms of devices um and certification of devices so that we've got a minimum standard to which items should be certified prior to being deployed in a POE system.
00:34:49
Speaker
um But I think the big one is the standardization and the education of specifiers and end users. So we we at the moment have got over 30 technology companies that have joined the PAE Consortium of varying sizes from mom and pop shows all the way through to to really large organizations.
00:35:11
Speaker
And we all try and engage with all the members to ensure that they are active in the delivery of the standards, of the drawing standards, the symbol standards, the specifications that we are trying to bring forward to the specification market. Because if we don't have standards to which POE systems are being delivered, um it's going to become fragmented and you're gonna you're just not going to be able to, you'll you'll have these um sort of standalone systems, as there are a couple in the US at the moment that are not POE, but they complete standalone proprietary technology, proprietary protocols.
Real-World PoE Applications
00:35:49
Speaker
If that company goes down, nobody else can ever fill the gap. um And that's the last thing you want to happen because unfortunately, it's going to mean the end of a lot of us in terms of how we how we can deploy our technology.
00:36:01
Speaker
So in the PEE Consortium, I was my second year as president of the PEE Consortium. I think it's it's at times it it feels a bit like like herding kittens because everybody's running in their own direction. But I think we've we've got a good bunch of people that that really want to see the technology succeed and see the deployment of the technology grow um because we're we're just trying to educate people that PEE per se is not new.
00:36:27
Speaker
it's It's just the the the scalability and the actual size of the wattage has has increased over the years from 50 to 30 to 60 now to 90. um And it's it's how we deploy those systems um in ah in a in ah in a large scale that can actually prove the technology um and the benefits of it and and how these different systems can ultimately work together.
00:36:52
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that's the, to me, that's the inflection point, David, is like POE has been around for 25 years, um but very much in like an IT capacity.
00:37:03
Speaker
But where we're going to really hit like a hockey stick of like customer value and adoption is when like non-IT systems start getting on POE standards. So would you but you say that's kind of like the primary mission of the consortium is to like like take it to the next level?
00:37:21
Speaker
Yeah, we we actually, um one of ah one of our largest members, um they do point of sale devices, um cash registers. um They do all fast food chains. so if you you plug in your your your order when you hit the drive-through, that's all operating on PoE. There's no line voltage to that. It's all PoE. It goes through, it then goes through the central processor. It goes to various workstations within the kitchen.
00:37:47
Speaker
Everything is simulated and they've just done install now. think uh i the number was quoted to me i think it's 9 000 endpoints in a particular installation where they're wanting to do a white paper on it now wow and everything is operating on poe which um people don't hear of these success stories they just assume that every time they go to a fast food chain they're just going to shout out what they want and the food's going to pop out on the other side it's it's they They don't know the technology behind it.
00:38:18
Speaker
and And it's PEE. It really is fascinating when you see a you know when you see like a new device at a conference or a trade show and it has an RJ45 and like no other no other no other connector inside of it. And you're like, yeah you guys you guys get it.
00:38:33
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, ah you saw it all. I mean, nowadays, all monitors. And it's got an RJ45. It comes out the back of it. Gone are the days of lugging this big power pack behind your... your 50 inch monitor anymore. It's not on the back of it.
00:38:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:49
Speaker
So how do people, how do people find out about, PUE consortium about MECO? Like where, were where, where are you guys showing up over the next, you know, like, like through this calendar year from a, you know, from a trade show standpoint,
Learning More and Conclusion
00:39:02
Speaker
David.
00:39:02
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, ah the POE Consortium, I think it's poeconsortium.com. We've just relaunched our website. Got a lot of useful information on there.
00:39:13
Speaker
there's There's a whole member section on there. There's a number of case studies on there. There's a lot of educational documentation on there. It's also got links to each one of the members' websites. So when you click on the members, you can actually dive into each one of them individually.
00:39:27
Speaker
um we We don't promote ah individual products, but we will give ah a ah link to the to the various websites. um With regards to peer we and in shade technology, again, you can go through the POE Consortium or macroshade.com slash POE.
00:39:43
Speaker
um And it it it just gives people the... the holistic view of what is possible with PoE. People are still apprehensive of about deployment.
00:39:57
Speaker
We've had major clients on the brink of pressing the button and then they've fallen back to say, oh, no, no, we'll we'll just do low voltage motors. And we'll say, well, that's exactly the same. PoE is low voltage.
00:40:08
Speaker
Yeah, it's exactly the same. it's named Instead of having a power panel that may well fail after a couple of years because all it is is a big transformer, you've now got a central switch, which is supplying that, that, that power. It's, it's almost as if we want to take the name and POE and divorce it from the, from the concept of POE.
00:40:26
Speaker
That's, that's one thing like with, with, um you know, with, with MEPT firms, a lot of times we'll refer to a POE switch as power supplying equipment, right? Because like that's, that's the taxonomy that they're,
00:40:38
Speaker
that they're familiar with. And it just happens to be and a different 19 inch rack mount form factor than than what they're familiar with. Yeah, it was quite interesting. I was actually speaking to one of my colleagues at work. For the last three months of this year, our low voltage motor sales have exceeded our line voltage, which has never been the case.
00:41:01
Speaker
um So we are and we are burning through numbers of low-voltage motors. Now, one of them said today, imagine it. all of these were PoE. I said, we we need to change the name. We we just need to say it's a different power source. Do you want a power panel? ah This power panel seems to have 24 outlets on it and this one is 48. 48. a lot of times like we refer to it you know out outside of IT t almost as like energy networking. right like This is just another network that happens to happens to yeah know supply energy and
00:41:35
Speaker
data over the same cable and Yeah. i mean if If we could get over that that resistance to POE, as I said, we if we had every one of those motors that we sold in June being driven off a POE switch, man, we'll be smiling.
00:41:54
Speaker
Yeah. and And this is, I mean, I think fundamentally it's ah it's a it's a function of changing the way spaces have been designed and built for the past yeah hundred years.
00:42:05
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I think it starts with, you know, what the PUE Consortium is doing. the The training committee is is busy trying to come up with training material so that way you can train the trainers around the country and around the globe, given standards and and symbols so that way MEP firms can design it, which is ah which is a big advantage. And I would encourage everyone, obviously being in a VP of PUE Consortium, to join.
00:42:29
Speaker
you know the The membership is not is not big, but at the same time, I think the outcome of what you get either as an observer or just a basic membership, it's it's valuable. Yeah, cool. so So there so there is so POE consortium is made up of manufacturers, right? Obviously, that want to, you know, like raise all boats, but there is also like an observer, um like designation or membership for yep anyone?
00:42:54
Speaker
ah Yeah, there's this bench it's it's open to observer, member, or patron. We don't only have manufacturers on board. We have got various ah trade or authorities that have that have joined as well, interested in the education because they know that line voltage is not going to be around forever. They they need to be part of that that rising tide.
00:43:14
Speaker
But there are individuals that have that have joined as well that want want to be part of the technology growth. So um I wouldn't say that it's only manufacturers. Manufacturers made up some of the some of the core members, but we are diversifying across various platforms at the moment.
00:43:31
Speaker
we've We've also traditionally stuck to exhibiting at ah trade shows like Nika and Bixi. We were at Reelcom this year. we We are looking across the spectrum to see where we can get, where we can potentially reach new audiences and and how we can actually get that message across to to A and other rather than preaching to the converted every single time because we feel the last three years, it's the same people you see at the trade shows and they all claim to know about POE but haven't really jumped on board yet. So you want to you want to move it up a notch and and get to people who where you can actually talk to them about it, get them enthusiastic about it, and hopefully they will deploy it.
00:44:11
Speaker
Yeah, and and that, like you mentioned, Nika and Bixie, for those of you that don't know, like, ah Nika is more of like the traditional electrical, um you know, contractors and education forum. And then Bixie is more like low voltage. And we had Jeff Beavers on a couple of months ago from ah from Nika.
00:44:30
Speaker
So it's it's great to see that like PoE and other technologies like FMP kind of have like a foot in both worlds, right? Because these two worlds are like slowly coming together.
00:44:43
Speaker
Very much so. And you actually mentioned something there about FMP. I think that's That's going to go hand in hand with the the success of PV deployment in the future because it's just another carrier.
00:44:57
Speaker
it's It's a method of getting power to your switch. Yep. Exactly.
00:45:04
Speaker
Cool. Well, we'll post, and ah David, we'll post the link links to, to MECO, to POE Consortium and other, other things and in the, in the show notes for, for sure.
00:45:16
Speaker
um What's, what's the best way, like, let's just say there's a customer or an owner's rep out there that's listening to this and like, I didn't know this technology existed. Like best way is like to reach out to you directly or on LinkedIn or email or something like that.
00:45:31
Speaker
um'm LinkedIn, I'm prevalent, ah David Robinson. um Otherwise, through the consortium page. Otherwise, through macoshe.com forward slash POE. There's an inquiry page you can fill in and it gets directly to me.
00:45:45
Speaker
um And that that gives us the capability of engaging with with potential end users and actually opening the discussion. And that's that's that's all we want to do is to showcase the technology and open the discussion as to how we can deploy it.
00:46:00
Speaker
Awesome. Thanks, David. but David, it's always a pleasure. It's always good to see you. And like usual, like and subscribe, follow us on all social media, but LinkedIn, TikTok, Instagram, and then don't forget to comment. And I look forward to next episode.
00:46:16
Speaker
Thanks, all.