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Beyond the Pitch Episode 89: COPA 71 Episode 2 -"Not Meant for Women": The Stigma of Playing Football
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Thank you for joining Briony and Raj on today's episode.
In today’s episode we’re diving into the second episode of our special series, The Hidden Game, where we uncover the untold stories and overlooked moments in women’s football history.
From the ground-breaking Copa ’71 tournament to the systemic barriers that shaped—and so often limited—the game, this series shines a light on the resilience, passion, and progress of women’s football through the decades.
We’ll explore the early restrictions imposed on women’s football around the world, the stigmas tied to outdated societal perceptions of women’s bodies, and the deeply ingrained myths that dictated what was deemed ‘appropriate’ for female athletes. These barriers silenced so many voices and hid remarkable stories of determination for decades—but we’re bringing them back to the surface, together.
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Transcript
Introduction to Beyond the Pitch
00:00:01
Global Sports Podcast Network
Hello and welcome to Beyond the Pitch, a daily women's football podcast brought to you by the Global Sports Podcast Network. Today is brought to you by myself, Bryony, and would you like to introduce yourself?
00:00:12
Raj
Hey guys, it's Raj, how are you all doing? Hey Bryony, how are you?
00:00:15
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, I might. Thank you. How are you?
00:00:17
Raj
Yeah, I'm good, thank you. Looking forward to tonight's episode.
00:00:21
Global Sports Podcast Network
Episode two of COPA.
00:00:24
Raj
Exactly. Let's get into it.
The Hidden Game - Women's Football History
00:00:30
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yep. In today's episode, we are diving, as I say, into the second episode of our special series, The Hidden Game, where we uncover the untold stories and overlooked moments in women's football history. From the groundbreaking COPA 71 tournament to the systemic barriers that shaped and so often limited the game,
00:00:47
Global Sports Podcast Network
This series shines a light on the resilience, passion, and progress of women's football through the decades.
Early Restrictions and Stigmas
00:00:53
Global Sports Podcast Network
We'll explore the early restrictions imposed on women's football around the world, the stigmas tied to outdated societal perceptions of women's bodies, and the deeply ingrained myths that dictated what were deemed appropriate for female athletes. These barriers silenced so many voices and hid remarkable stories of determination for decades. But we're bringing them back to life today, together.
00:01:16
Global Sports Podcast Network
time
00:01:18
Global Sports Podcast Network
We've titled this episode not meant for women and the stigma
Copa 71 Player Experiences
00:01:22
Global Sports Podcast Network
of playing football. And actually through the whole documentary, it was quite clear from firsthand accounts or recounts of players that speak about some of their experiences and what they had to go through due to the stigmas of playing football as a woman. um I think it's fair to say, I'm sure you'll agree that actually some of the ah accounts will go into a baffling actually.
00:01:47
Raj
Yeah, and I think um one of the reasons again is ah that we chose to to cover Copa 71 documentary over a few episodes is because we could understand a lot of it and re empathize with the players and what they were going through. um And in particular,
00:02:13
Raj
um i I really resonated with their struggle to just play football as a child and it for it to just not be a normal thing and to have to what seems like jump through hoops to just play in the park.
00:02:37
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, exactly. And I think, I think we kind of touched upon this in the first episode where we were just talking about how much the games come on in really only the last five years or so. And how even for us, not that many years ago, being at school, it still didn't feel like it was a place for us to do it. And the shame around being ah a girl, a young girl in that sport and as a child and hearing the things that got said and being made to feel like you were doing something wrong for it.
00:03:06
Global Sports Podcast Network
And I think this is reflected really nicely actually in the documentary.
Sylvia Zaragoza's Secret Football Journey
00:03:11
Global Sports Podcast Network
So Mexican player, Sylvia Zaragoza, who states that she obviously spent her childhood playing football, um, filled all lots of joy, et cetera, et cetera. But she stated, when my dad came home, I would have to stop playing. Otherwise he would shout at me or hit me. He would say that this is not how girls should behave because women are created to stay at home.
00:03:33
Global Sports Podcast Network
So I would play in secret, I'd climb onto the roof and then jump across to the next house so I could keep playing. So straight the way there, we we pull that apart. Physical abuse, so punishment for doing so. The um stereotypes and the misogynistic views of women are created to stay at home. And the fact that you have to hide playing, i.e. jumping over roofs and onto other houses to play that, that's crazy. That is, you know, unfortunately, we have to say that there are still parts of that that are linked now.
00:04:12
Raj
Yeah, and I was just about to say, although It sounds so crazy watching it.
Cultural Stigmas in Women's Football - Raj's Story
00:04:20
Raj
I felt both sad, but also I knew exactly where she was coming from. Sylvie's a Mexican player um and I certainly within my culture um playing football wasn't deemed to be the correct thing for girls.
00:04:45
Raj
It's just not a dumb thing that girls do, run around wearing shorts. It's something that the boys did. It was a masculine sport. It's strong and tough. um and and And the girls would be playing with their dolls or in the kitchen helping their mum. um And that's the exact vibe that I got from it. And i just and i it just made me so sad because I just thought, it's a game.
00:05:15
Raj
And she's going to have to to kind of play in in secret as if she's going out to sort of like commit crime almost.
00:05:26
Global Sports Podcast Network
This is it. it's It's shameful to do it. You know, it's actually almost a sin to to be a woman that plays and you of obviously just, you know, noted how like with your in your culture and things like that as well. And it was there was that extra barrier to it. But I think we'll stop being women. And I remember when I was I wasn't even that old and people would say, you know, I used to overhear adults talking about me.
Childhood Experiences and Societal Perceptions
00:05:56
Global Sports Podcast Network
playing football and, you know, it's just a phase, you'll go out with it, things like that. And kids hear everything, like we've spoken about this, but you're made to you're made to feel and you're made to be conditioned that young that you shouldn't be doing it. And, you know, there was definitely a period of time as ah as a young child where I'd go out with my mates, like my best mate, that world one of my best mates at the time, a lad, a guy. He used to go out with him every Saturday. I didn't have a football game.
00:06:27
Global Sports Podcast Network
And, you know, we'd go and kick a ball around or whatever. And I did go for a period of time where I almost felt like I was, you know, what, what if other people knew I was doing this? Should I be doing this? Is it weird that I'm playing football with the boys? Because that was the other thing. There weren't other girls that wanted to play with you. And therefore at school, you were known as the one that played with the boys all the time.
00:06:47
Raj
yeah yeah definitely definitely um
00:06:51
Global Sports Podcast Network
And then, you you know, and I'm very happy to be open about this, but I, not not like, I got to my teenage years and it got different, but I did go through probably a year or so a period where there was that transition in age.
00:06:52
Raj
less you with
00:07:03
Global Sports Podcast Network
And I was, cause I spent all my time playing football with the lads. Actually I had to female friends, but not really close ones for a while. And it got to a point where I couldn't be as social with the lads anymore, but actually I wasn't that
00:07:14
Raj
Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely.
00:07:17
Global Sports Podcast Network
socialised for a while with the girls and I just so kind of fell in this limbo where I didn't know what to do.
00:07:21
Raj
floating yeah yeah yeah 100% because as a child you don't you don't think about it too much you're just kind of playing football and like you said as you get into those teenage years because it's not the kiss because girls are conditioned to grow up and and what this is what you're going to be doing you're going to be talking about boys painting your nails this is what you should be doing by this age this is just the thing that annoys me about society it sets out what you you should be doing through your ages rather than just what comes naturally to you and what you want to be doing.
00:07:59
Raj
And and just going going back to the documentary um where we're saying about um within Mexico, um we've got another player, Alvera Aracen.
00:08:17
Raj
And sorry if I'm mispronouncing any of these names, by the way.
00:08:20
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, we'll do our
Inequality in Sports Facilities
00:08:21
Global Sports Podcast Network
best for these tonight.
00:08:21
Raj
and we we actually doing our best job. um she She said something that was really interesting and she said, the boys played on the grass and the girls played on the mud. and But that's not what we that's not what our focus was ah was on. um Our focus was just actually on being able to play and have a space on the pitch. How crazy is that?
00:08:51
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, and I guess we spoke about, um we were but're only looking at this the other day between us off of a pod where we were looking at the bands that had been enforced, 1921 and then technically again, 71.
00:09:03
Raj
Mm hmm.
00:09:07
Global Sports Podcast Network
But actually the differentiation there is that after 71, or no, so after 21, no team was allowed to play on affiliated pitches. And, you know, as they say here, we, you know, we weren't bothered about where we were playing, it was just playing.
00:09:24
Global Sports Podcast Network
it's this whole, again, not playing affiliated grounds, playing out of the way and more likely in secret kind of thing, is the vibe that I get from that. And how much different is that now? I can't tell you how many times I've been part of a setup where if there's only one like one facility in that hour and the men's and the women's have got a train, who gets it?
00:09:50
Raj
The men, of course.
00:09:51
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:09:52
Raj
And that's what my immediate thought was. It went straight to that. It went straight to um the the Sunday league um team that I coach.
00:10:05
Raj
It was a ladies team. We had the 2 o'clock kickoff. The men had the 10 a.m. kickoff. If it's bad weather, the men play first at 10 a.m. and then if the pitch is too ah sludgy and muddy, then Tough luck ladies, your match is being canceled, whatever.
00:10:21
Raj
um and And that's just one thing. It's just the gratefulness that she said it with.
00:10:28
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:10:29
Raj
Our focus was actually being able to play. Just so grateful for getting that opportunity, that space. And it also took me back to when we say um we're so grateful to be able us to be on coaching courses.
00:10:44
Raj
and and be able to be on this but actually wasn't it just her right then as a human being to do to do ex exercise because essentially that's what playing football is exercise it's actually really good for your body actually it's not even bad for your womb it actually it's actually really good and
00:11:01
Global Sports Podcast Network
I mean, we're a race.
00:11:08
Raj
A lot of what these women say throughout the documentary, it just it just blows my mind and makes me sad and then just angry all at the same time. There's just so many emotions as these women are talking. And I just think, oh, what must it have been like back then? Because we get so angry now.
00:11:32
Global Sports Podcast Network
Well, I'll go back to something you said there, where you said, you know, it's sad that, you know, she they didn't care, they were just grateful that they were able to play.
00:11:41
Raj
Mm.
00:11:43
Global Sports Podcast Network
But like we were just saying, how often would the men get given the better of the facilities, but we didn't care as long as we could still play. You know, I remember, I remember, so my local club at home, I played there from 16.
00:11:50
Raj
It's your take.
00:11:57
Global Sports Podcast Network
um in ladies football and played there for four seasons and for most of that time once it got to the winter we couldn't train at the club anymore. We had to train train on the Astro at the Sports Centre which is what all the clubs and teams in the area did.
00:12:10
Raj
Mm.
00:12:11
Global Sports Podcast Network
But the men's team got the Astro, the half the Astro that was booked out for the hour. Nine times out of ten we had to, there there's ah there's grass pitches next to the Astro turf and if we'd been lucky the the um light, the floodlights would just enough light up the grass.
00:12:31
Global Sports Podcast Network
If it was too wet, which it often was because it was the winter, it was like sludgy, you have to train on the on the athletics rubber track that went round the outside of the pitch.
00:12:36
Raj
hmm wow the athletics but did you guys want mine or did you just play do you know what we want to play football wherever we get a space to play in let's go
00:12:43
Global Sports Podcast Network
The men trained on the Astro.
00:12:51
Global Sports Podcast Network
The sad thing about it, the sad thing about it was is that actually oftentimes the men would agree to give up for half of it or every so often they'd let us have it for the session.
00:13:03
Global Sports Podcast Network
It wasn't the men's team that did it. It was the people higher up that regulated it all, which was really frustrating.
00:13:06
Raj
People above. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't surprise me.
00:13:12
Global Sports Podcast Network
um But, you know, there's this's we'll go into more of this episode, but there's so many recall like recall accounts that already we we can just sit here and talk about and resonate with.
00:13:23
Raj
It's just a bit jarring.
00:13:24
Global Sports Podcast Network
um
00:13:25
Raj
It's just a bit jarring. so so this
00:13:26
Global Sports Podcast Network
It is, we're going to have to get an ad break. We'll continue this afterwards.
00:13:32
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00:13:44
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00:13:52
Global Sports Podcast Network
To build on from that, let me say, there's so many of these things that we can resonate with. And we bring up our personal experiences and stories because it's just that represented factor. It's that it's just showing, isn't it? that These things are still there. They haven't disappeared anywhere. and And so French player, again, apologies for pronunciations, Nicole Mangas or Mangas, maybe.
00:14:22
Global Sports Podcast Network
said that her parents would watch their local team every Sunday. So when I saw before I read out the rest of this, the bit that got me about this is my parents would watch the local team every Sunday, which means her mum too would have watched the football every Sunday.
00:14:38
Global Sports Podcast Network
Now straight away, that just rings alarm bells to me that it was okay for women to be the side piece on their husband's arms at the football and that was okay.
00:14:46
Raj
yeah Yeah, and ah that's exactly the part that that stood out to me as well because I just think wouldn't it's so hard to to put my thoughts into words on my thoughts into words with this because
00:14:47
Global Sports Podcast Network
Does it not?
00:15:04
Global Sports Podcast Network
You know, the only way I can describe it is for me as a woman in this sport, I hear these things. I often can't put it into words because it's a it's a feeling.
00:15:12
Raj
yeah it's a feeling right exactly and you just get the the impression of of when she was saying that of
00:15:13
Global Sports Podcast Network
It's a feeling because I've lived with it my whole life, as opposed to being able to verbalise how it feels and what I'm thinking. It's just a mundane, strange feeling in the pit of my stomach that's just there all the time when I'm in this environment and when I'm dealing with these issues once again.
00:15:36
Raj
Her parents would watch the men's game go every Sunday. She fell in love with the game, but knew, and these are exact words, but knew that playing football wasn't a normal thing for women.
00:15:50
Raj
It was a men's thing. So immediately what I'm thinking is, why? Is it the comments that your parents are making throughout when you're watching it?
00:15:57
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:16:02
Raj
Well, look at that strong man. etc et cetera, et cetera. I don't know the comments that they've made playing this, by the way. i'm just you We're just sharing our feelings um through watching the documentary and and and how what these players say, how it comes across and how it makes us feel.
00:16:20
Raj
And I think the emotion with which they say it, it's it's very apparent that everyone around her made it so that this is a men's game.
00:16:32
Raj
It's a masculine society.
00:16:34
Global Sports Podcast Network
Masculine Society and actually it's, I think this is a quote that comes up in one of our future episodes, but um one of the England players, I want to say it was Trudy McCaffrey, is interviewed um and he goes, why football?
00:16:34
Raj
and
00:16:54
Global Sports Podcast Network
Why football? what Why not hockey or netball?
00:16:58
Global Sports Podcast Network
and Honestly, that is something that' been said that's been said to me before. You know, I was singled out in a boys' football team and said, you know, this is a men's league, why don't you go and play netball? Like, in front of the rest of my team as like a 10-year-old child. Like, baffling. I can't get my head round that because to anyone listening to this, if you want a warning, if ever I hear that said to any child again,
00:16:58
Raj
Right.
00:17:23
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah I think I'd throw a hand if I heard that now from anybody. Don't get wrong, I'm sure it still happens.
00:17:30
Raj
Yeah, yeah, and and that and that was a ah shocking Um, a shocking part of the documentary, momentary wasn't it? I think, I think when she'd had that said to her, she'd just won a game as well. Um, and she was really happy. You could see on Trudy's face that she was really happy. She was buzzing. She had that post-match match buzz. Um, and then as you quite rightly said, um, the interview, the the interview's exact words were Trudy, what's a nice girl like you?
00:18:05
Raj
doing playing football.
00:18:05
Global Sports Podcast Network
but Yeah, that was it. And she looked at him so blankly in the face like, what was, I got her, she replied, I think she said something like, football's for everyone, isn't it?
00:18:08
Raj
What was that supposed to mean?
00:18:18
Raj
should yeah Exactly, exactly.
00:18:21
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:18:22
Raj
He said what's wrong with football to which the interviewer replied well it's a man's game isn't it? with were his exact words. And this is all this is all um documentary footage. This is all footage that um if you guys haven't haven't haven't watched it yet, but we're not we're not um selling it very well because who wants to watch that? But honestly, it's true. We're not lying. Go and watch it. That's exactly what he says. It's a man's game, isn't it? ah To which Trudy replies, um no, sport is for everybody.
00:19:00
Raj
and I think it's really important there that she use the word sport because football is a sport, it's an exercise, it's something
00:19:07
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:19:12
Global Sports Podcast Network
Just like though, what i want
Gender Stereotypes in Sports
00:19:14
Raj
three
00:19:14
Global Sports Podcast Network
to what I really want to pull out there is actually, if you say sport is for everyone, wherein, you know, I want to make it clear too that where he, why don't you play hockey or netball, those sports are for men too.
00:19:29
Raj
Exactly. So what is, and again, exactly.
00:19:32
Global Sports Podcast Network
Why are we segregating sports into feminine and masculine thought?
00:19:37
Raj
war i Why, what I'm failing to understand is, so the band was put on women women's football in 1921.
00:19:50
Raj
and For that 50 year duration, women had to play in secret. They were banned from playing at official grounds. um And they were um abused and told that it's not something they would be they should be doing. It's eight ah masculine. It's not feminine. It's not a way in which women should behave. And um I just want to add as well, this is by female doctors that women are being told as well that they shouldn't be played.
00:20:24
Raj
and
00:20:25
Global Sports Podcast Network
vento
00:20:25
Raj
so all through this time. And also in Italy and Brazil, it was actually criminalised. So playing football, kicking a ball as a woman was a criminal offence at one time throughout this period in Italy and Brazil.
00:20:45
Raj
Brazil. So where's one of the best football come from?
00:20:49
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. And the Brazilian team now are really good.
00:20:51
Raj
It makes me surprised. Well, Marta.
00:20:56
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:20:56
Raj
what are the best women's footballers we have?
00:20:58
Global Sports Podcast Network
and history yeah
00:20:59
Raj
With that iconic red lipstick who makes it so feminine. Yet it's such a masculine sport. And like you quite rightly just pointed out, the interviewer said to her, why don't you play hockey?
00:21:13
Raj
Okay, so what's the difference between where women are allowed to play hockey, but not football, but men are allowed to play both? And this is something throughout my whole life
00:21:22
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. In history, yeah.
00:21:24
Raj
And throughout watching this documentary, I have never ever been able to wrap my head around.
00:21:30
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, I agree. And actually, you know, why is it that the traditionally feminine sports now, wherein we see most all sports are played by men and women, is it that the stereotypically feminine sports like hockey, etc, men are not discriminated against for playing while we're still discriminated against for playing football? Does that make sense?
00:21:56
Raj
Absolutely. No one's saying to a man playing hockey, oh this is a bit of a feminine sport, mate. Why don't you go and play football?
00:22:03
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:22:05
Global Sports Podcast Network
no one's turning up No one's turning around and going gay to a hawkey male hockey player, are they?
00:22:06
Raj
like who
00:22:07
Raj
no one a Well, exactly.
00:22:13
Global Sports Podcast Network
Like, it's selective stereotyping is what it is in society.
00:22:13
Raj
I just, at this point,
00:22:19
Global Sports Podcast Network
um And actually, you spoke about Italy there in the way it was was a criminal offense. We are going to have to go to an ad break.
Teaser: Alina Sciado's Story
00:22:26
Global Sports Podcast Network
But after doing so, we will come on to Italian player Alina Sciado, who It's for her experience.
00:22:36
Raj
Here at Global Sports Podcast Network, we spent a lot of time selecting our delivery platform. Zencaster came out the clear winner. With 4K video recording from your phone and AI editing that automatically removes all those ums and r's, it's super easy to start a podcast that sounds great and is delivered efficiently. If you're all ready to tell your story, check out the link in the show description to learn more about Zencaster.
00:23:01
Global Sports Podcast Network
So Italian player, Alina Schiavo, I'm going to assume that's how you say it. um She said, where I lived, I was the only girl who played football. often the girl um Often the boys would let me play, wouldn't, would let me play. So what would I do? No, sorry. Excuse me, let's start again. Often the boys wouldn't let me play, so what would I do? I'd beat them up. Love that.
00:23:27
Raj
yes girl
00:23:29
Global Sports Podcast Network
i went She said, I went to sewing school, but I barely asked barely lasted a year before I quit. And then she says, I was a rebel.
00:23:41
Global Sports Podcast Network
So but she's demon herself this rebel because she was considered naughty, misbehaving, going against what she should have been doing for not being in her stereotypically feminine um career or line of work and coming away from that.
00:23:54
Raj
Yes, girl!
00:23:58
Global Sports Podcast Network
and actually focusing on something that was more stereotypically masculine in that period of time.
00:24:03
Raj
Exactly. She was basically told, this is your box, stay in it. And because she didn't, and because she had a personality of her own, and because her hobbies weren't cooking and sewing, she was deemed a rebel. A rebel for wanting to play sport, I will, is ridiculous, is quite frankly, ridiculous.
00:24:29
Raj
I just want to add as well, Alina Schiavo was actually ranked as the best player in the world ah in women's football in 1971 as well.
00:24:39
Global Sports Podcast Network
And she was as well. When you watch the documentary, she's an insane little player.
00:24:42
Raj
What a baller! What a baller! and And just again, I know I keep saying it, but it made me so sad for these players because The men's players have got icons. They've got old school icons that you and I can talk about, right? Italy, I think, oh, buffoon, like, what, what a great, what a great player. France, I think Zinedine Zidane used to love watching him play, you know?
00:25:15
Raj
England David Beckham and you know we can reel these players names off and they they get the recognition that they deserved but because um this footage this Copa 71 footage was buried Copa 71 the first ever women's world carp um footage was buried with the biggest uh attending crowd of 110
00:25:27
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yep.
00:25:45
Raj
thousand people. we We're only now just starting to know about them. So the iconic, don't get me wrong, there's still icons, there's still legends, but people have taken away their glory and have taken away their recognition that they deserved.
00:26:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, and it's sad.
00:26:09
Raj
And that makes me really sad.
00:26:12
Global Sports Podcast Network
And actually, we when we speak about Xavo and her experience of, like we say, you know, being deemed a rebel, because of going against the grain, basically.
00:26:26
Global Sports Podcast Network
And it's very much the same of England's Carol Wilson, who was England captain, um who, you know, ah explains how she was expected to get married, settle down, have kids and cook.
00:26:40
Global Sports Podcast Network
And how, you know, the each yeah each their own to anyone that wants to do that, that's fair enough.
00:26:41
Raj
you No thanks.
00:26:49
Global Sports Podcast Network
But I couldn't think of anything worse.
00:26:50
Raj
It's an expectation and that's the annoying part.
00:26:52
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:26:53
Raj
If you want to do that, absolutely crack on. That's lovely. I'm happy for you. It's it's the expectation.
00:27:01
Global Sports Podcast Network
And this is just the thing as well. I'll come back to this, but I just want to raise a point of view to see if you know what I mean. But actually, society now, the of like she just, like she explains, the expectation was in that generation, you know, 40, 50 years ago.
00:27:18
Global Sports Podcast Network
that as a woman in particular, you did settle down 18 and start having kids and get married and be the housewife. And now you were at a stage where women don't do that either because they don't want to, they're very career driven and passionate about what they do, hence like me or like you.
00:27:35
Global Sports Podcast Network
And we don't just want to do that because we know our worth, we know what we're capable of doing. And we get termed the youngsters these days, they're not
00:27:44
Raj
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
00:27:44
Global Sports Podcast Network
They can't do anything for themselves because they're not, you know, we're not settled down 18 married. And, you know, I hear adults go, Oh God, I was married now two kids at your age. And you, you lot these days, do you know what I mean?
00:27:56
Raj
Oh.
00:27:56
Global Sports Podcast Network
It's like, no, we're just in a different generation where we will fight to do what we want to do. You know, we're able to do it.
00:28:02
Raj
Exactly.
00:28:02
Global Sports Podcast Network
So why won't we? Um, and that really frustrates me.
00:28:05
Raj
I know exactly what it is. That's because it is very frustrating. And that expectation is again, we we are forever discussing inequalities that we experience in our fields throughout the podcast.
00:28:25
Raj
um that frustrate us massively. ah I couldn't even imagine in a second being in these players' shoes and having to deal with all of the stuff that they dealt with and the expectations. Because all already now, when we've progressed a tiny bit, it's still so hard. And imagine then that those brave women that still had fought all of this, got all of this abuse, but still fought to get themselves to that World Cup.
00:29:00
Global Sports Podcast Network
Exactly. And it really is.
00:29:00
Raj
It's incredible.
00:29:02
Global Sports Podcast Network
And it's like um Carol Wilson says, you know, she didn't want to settle down and be like everyone else. And so she joined the Air Force and she thought that, you know, I'll be able to play football there.
00:29:15
Global Sports Podcast Network
Wherein, when she joined, ah she used to play five a side with the lads. And then one day she said, i over I looked over and saw a bunch of girls playing and I was absolutely gobsmacked because I had never seen girls teams playing together in my life.
00:29:30
Raj
more flowing.
00:29:32
Global Sports Podcast Network
mad, isn't it? But you know, I can actually this sounds mad. I remember playing football with boys my whole life. And then when I got to about 12 or 13, girls, girls and women's teams were starting to exist. And when I did see like, I remember, like, I was invited by someone I knew a football coach um had a friend who managed a women's football does the women's football department at a club.
00:30:01
Global Sports Podcast Network
It was a good 45 minutes away. It's why I hadn't previously been, but they, because they'd obviously picked me up as talent or whatever it was. Oh, she can't play for us in this tournament. So I signed on. I went and played in this tournament for them.
00:30:12
Global Sports Podcast Network
When I set either sounds awful as a woman, it almost scared me. I was like, why are there loads of women around and why they're only female teams here? I was like, this doesn't look right. I'm not used to this. I'm used to being at a football tournament with the labs everywhere and the dads everywhere.
00:30:27
Global Sports Podcast Network
And that is it.
00:30:27
Raj
Yep.
00:30:28
Global Sports Podcast Network
Not this.
00:30:28
Raj
Yeah.
00:30:28
Global Sports Podcast Network
What is this? It was madness. I loved it. But I was like, there's goes everywhere.
00:30:33
Raj
Yeah. And the fact that you can empathize with that experience that Carol had 50 years ago um today is shows like the women's game has progressed, but has it?
00:30:57
Raj
And I think that that's what we ask ourselves a lot within this pod. and But it's also why we do this podcast as well, because I think we're very aware that it hasn't progressed nearly as much as we'd like it to. um And that's what we strive for. um to To be, to voice these the opinions of these women, the experiences, share their experiences and make sure that girls being born all around the world now will never ever have to experience this when they're old enough to be able to kick a ball.
00:31:43
Raj
It will be their norm. And I think that's why we do this podcast, isn't it? And everything that we do.
00:31:49
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, and it is, yeah, everything we do, like, it is sad that we are still in this position where we, to put it bluntly, are still penalised and still fighting to do such simplistic things because we were born the gender we were born.
00:32:09
Raj
Exactly.
00:32:11
Global Sports Podcast Network
um
00:32:13
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, I'm going to end it on a bit of a high because I want to end it really mundanely um because we are going to have to finish in a moment. But um it's interesting from the perspective of where I just speaking about going to that girls tournament and not being used to how it felt. This is where the barriers come in as well because the stigma of being a girl who plays football like we hear these women speaking about. You then playing boys, did you, hang on, I've never, did you play in in a boys team?
00:32:47
Raj
Mmhmm. Yeah.
00:32:48
Global Sports Podcast Network
You did.
00:32:48
Raj
Yeah.
00:32:49
Global Sports Podcast Network
Um, and actually people argue that when you move into women's football, you have physicality behind you for that reason. And you do. And I found that moved into women's women's football.
00:33:01
Global Sports Podcast Network
And I did have on average, a lot more strength than a lot of the girls or my, my physical attributes had been pushed to their limits more because of playing with the lads. But actually a coach observed something, a female coach, which I thought was really interesting. And looking back on it, I don't disagree either. I remember her saying to my mum that despite Brian being strong, very technically gifted because she's been pushed playing with boys. Actually now she's moved over into the women's game. It becomes a lot more obvious that despite her being stronger than the girls,
00:33:33
Global Sports Podcast Network
She is hesitant on certain challenges because she would just never have gone in for them with the boys because she'd have, you know, to put it bluntly, it been snapped for it kind of thing.
00:33:43
Raj
o
00:33:43
Global Sports Podcast Network
And moving over into women's football, that adjustment is, I found really difficult. I found having to move from men's football into women's football was one of the hardest like physical challenges I ever faced in football.
00:34:00
Raj
Yeah, it's a fact that you won't even notice there.
00:34:04
Global Sports Podcast Network
because there's a stigma attached in that respect. Sorry.
00:34:08
Raj
ah The fact that your mum even noticed it, the tack was you wouldn and wouldn't go in for.
00:34:11
Global Sports Podcast Network
is It's like, you know, yeah, that's my coach said it to my mum, my mum agreed. And you know, it's, but again, it's that stigma of how you then, it's how you hold yourself in the male environment and then how you, I think I almost had this fear of coming across too masculine in a women's game because I played in the men's game. and i as even as a kid, you're conditioned via these stigmas to behave in certain ways and...
00:34:34
Raj
Well...
00:34:41
Raj
Instead of just saying like, you know what, football is fun, play it.
00:34:43
Global Sports Podcast Network
No, and exactly.
00:34:48
Raj
And I think that's what I wish these women had been told.
Inspiring Future Generations in Football
00:34:53
Raj
Football is fun and if you want to play it, play it.
00:34:59
Raj
So yeah. I mean, dad, we've been able to cover off um and give the women all cop seventy one the time and the dedication of this episode today.
00:35:12
Global Sports Podcast Network
function.
00:35:13
Raj
Definitely obviously been discussing ah about their experiences more throughout the series. um And I think we're going to dive into didn dive into other bits um about the actual um ins and outs of how the World Cup was set up, how it come about, um how they ended and how they ended up playing in one of the biggest stadiums um in the world.
00:35:42
Raj
So looking forward ah to the next episodes.
00:35:46
Global Sports Podcast Network
hundred percent
00:35:46
Raj
But yeah, just just really want to um just give a massive shout out to the COVID-71 players really. um And to say like, we appreciate what you've done then and how strong you were against, they must've felt like the world was against them.
00:36:03
Raj
um but to still carry on and play and represent your countries like I'm proud ah to be a woman that wins football.
00:36:10
Global Sports Podcast Network
100%. 100%.
00:36:12
Raj
So yeah.
00:36:13
Global Sports Podcast Network
And like, you know, in the documentary, They speak about how they got back and that was it. There was just this whole ban and no one ever spoke about it. And they didn't, you know, like we say, it's important that they get this coverage because it didn't just end at the barriers of playing. It must have been so difficult in the aftermath. I, e they didn't, they didn't speak to each other again. Like they almost had to completely disassociate themselves from everything to do with the competition, including each other and teammates and didn't speak again until we saw them.
00:36:45
Global Sports Podcast Network
the um at Wembley a couple of years ago and they reunited and got on and watched the game together which was a I thought really emotional part of the documentary and that was nice to see but yeah it's been it's been good to do that and for those obviously interesting listening to the next episode we'll kind of go into the systemic denial around it women's football and the ignorance towards it and trying to ignore at the top the institutional level and FIFA and UEFA level how they denied or were in denial about the presence of women's football and systemically how that had an impact on COPA and how that progressed.
Documentary Invitation and Next Episode Teaser
00:37:25
Global Sports Podcast Network
So thank you for joining us today, everyone. I enjoyed the episode.
00:37:31
Raj
That was, I enjoyed it. If you haven't managed to watch the documentary yet, and definitely go and give it a watch and then you can follow the series along and see if you agree um and what your thoughts are as well.
00:37:48
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, 100%. So yeah, without further ado, thank you for listening. Look forward to welcoming you to our next podcast.
00:37:57
Global Sports Podcast Network
See you later.
00:37:57
Raj
Bye.