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Daily Women's Football: Beyond the Pitch Episode 113: What do the Nations League results tell us about the growth of the game?
10 Plays6 days ago
Join Catherine to look at some very close nations league results: what do they show about the growth of women's football in europe? We also look at the dangers of putting too much pressure on young players, and look ahead to Scotland-Netherlands and England-Spain.
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Transcript
Introduction to Topics
00:00:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
Hello and welcome to Beyond the Pitch, a daily women's football podcast brought to you by the Global Sports Podcast Network. I'm Catherine and today I'm going to be talking all about international football.
00:00:21
Global Sports Podcast Network
Before I get to that, how are you guys? It's been a while.
Nations League Insights
00:00:25
Global Sports Podcast Network
i took some time away from the podcast because I was really busy at my day job but and I had my driving test, which I very nearly passed. Yeah, so it's been a while.
00:00:39
Global Sports Podcast Network
Nice to see you all. So what i'm going to be talking about today is I have some questions. What do the Nations League Match Day One results tell us about the growth of the women's game?
00:00:52
Global Sports Podcast Network
Are we becoming obsessed with youth and bringing young players in. Lastly, I'll talk about upcoming games, including Scotland hosting the Netherlands, and the big one, England's chance for revenge against Spain at Wembley on Wednesday.
00:01:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
i will be there, will you? So, to review some of the results, Netherlands and Germany drew 2-0, Austria beat Scotland 1-0, Portugal and England drew one all Spain beat Belgium 3-2,
00:01:23
Global Sports Podcast Network
Italy beat Wales 2-0, France beat Norway 1-0, Switzerland and Iceland had a goalless draw, Poland beat Northern Ireland 2-0, and the Republic of Ireland got their first win of the Carla Ward era, beating Turkey one ni So what occurred to me about all these results is that they're all very close.
00:01:45
Global Sports Podcast Network
In previous iterations of European competitions, it would not be uncommon to see scorelines of 4 or 5-0, even 6-7-8-0. nell The gulf between countries was huge and the games were not competitive and that was the reason why, if you remember, the Nations League was actually brought in in the first place ah to give teams competitive games.
00:02:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
This round nobody won by more than two goals. There were three draws, some very close games, Spain and Belgium, France and Norway in particular, In both of those games, you would have expected a strong win for Spain and a strong win for France.
00:02:23
Global Sports Podcast Network
And even though they both did get those wins, it was a much closer scoreline than you would have expected. So what does that tell us about the where the women's game is now?
00:02:34
Global Sports Podcast Network
To me, it feels like the world has changed. You can't go into any game 100% convinced of a strong win for anybody.
Globalization in Football
00:02:42
Global Sports Podcast Network
It also suggests that no one team is that dominant, which is really exciting ahead of a summer where we have the European Championships.
00:02:50
Global Sports Podcast Network
For example, many would say Spain have to be favourites for the Euros, yet their form has been quite inconsistent of late. Of course, they have had other things to focus on, for example, the court case, which, ah yeah, I don't want to get into a rant, so I won't rant.
00:03:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
They were 2-0 down to Belgium for most of this game. And for the most part, Belgium kind of knew how to play against them. They got that right. And I think one big kind of ah symptom of this growth is that there has been huge strides in how teams defend.
00:03:26
Global Sports Podcast Network
There have been much more variety in terms of tactics and shapes on offer. While I think it used to be very much either fluid attacking football versus a low block and kind of strike on the counter.
00:03:38
Global Sports Podcast Network
Now teams and coaches are much more able to adapt during the game and between games, utilising different shapes and pushing the traditional top teams back into less of a high line.
00:03:50
Global Sports Podcast Network
We saw this with Portugal. They struggled during the first half because England had one of their best performances in quite a while. After half time, however, ah Portugal adapted. They changed shape to press England more.
00:04:03
Global Sports Podcast Network
And we've seen this before with England, when they kind of when they get pressed, when they get put under pressure, they can become quite sloppy. And I think we saw that again in the second half, and that allowed Portugal to get back into the game.
00:04:17
Global Sports Podcast Network
That adaptability, I don't think we would have seen that a few years ago. and I think it shows how technically the game has grown and tactically the game has grown as well. I think it's really important that as fans,
00:04:31
Global Sports Podcast Network
We keep these developments in mind and keep an eye on the bigger picture. England struggling for 45 minutes against Portugal, Spain struggling for most of a game against Belgium, Germany and the Netherlands cancelling each other out.
00:04:47
Global Sports Podcast Network
I think this is all good for the women's game as it makes the matches more exciting. Even if it doesn't feel that way for the teams like England who are used to getting used to no longer having the dominance that they once had.
Youth Obsession in Football
00:05:00
Global Sports Podcast Network
So, Why is all of this happening? I have some theories. So I think it's to do with how globalised football has become, ah much like the men's game.
00:05:15
Global Sports Podcast Network
Many of the best players from teams across Europe travel to the leagues they think are the strongest because they want to develop their game even further. For example, Manchester City in the WSL recently fielded a team that didn't have an English player in the starting eleven We've seen this in the men's game for quite a while, but it's only beginning to become apparent in the women's game.
00:05:37
Global Sports Podcast Network
And I think when you think about those that city starting 11, you had players representing countries from the Netherlands to Japan. And it's really exciting. It allows players to learn from each other.
00:05:50
Global Sports Podcast Network
and it also brings kind of the best talents to one place where they can challenge each other, push each other and learn from each other. Whilst players come to the WSL because of the standards, others go elsewhere because they want to work out of the spotlight. And I think that's really important as well.
00:06:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
um Especially in England, we like putting our players under the spotlight. We like putting our players and managers under lots of pressure. For example, Georgia Stanway has been in incredible form since moving Bayern Munich.
00:06:23
Global Sports Podcast Network
um I think she credits a lot of her form on the international stage with that move to Bayern Munich. which allowed her to kind of work on her football without having the pressure of being in the spotlight in England.
00:06:38
Global Sports Podcast Network
Mary Upps recently said that her move to PSG was in part because champions are born when nobody is watching, that she wanted to escape the noise and kind of the craziness around women's football in England and perhaps get away from some of that pressure and some of that focus, that drive that is always on you when you're in England.
00:06:59
Global Sports Podcast Network
And do her job quietly. So I think this raises some interesting questions for the future of England developing its players. um So of course if you're starting to have starting XI's in the top teams that don't include English players, where are they going to play and where are they going to get that space to learn?
00:07:21
Global Sports Podcast Network
However, I think that that means the impetus is on other leagues to step up and create a competition that is attractive to foreign talents and I don't think the WSL is the most competitive league in Europe, I've said that before, I think it's the Frauenbundesliga.
00:07:37
Global Sports Podcast Network
And we do you do see quite a few foreign players in the Frauenbundesliga. I think other leagues, perhaps ones that are known as training leagues, like the Eredivise in the Netherlands, the potential is there if the investment is realised, you can see that with Germany and with the WSL, to bring foreign players in, which will make the league stronger, make the leagues more attractive, make the games more competitive, but also allow players to grow, which will feed back into their international team performances.
00:08:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah So yeah, let's realise that investment for the good of the game.
00:08:15
Global Sports Podcast Network
So for my second topic of today, wanted to talk about the obsession we seem to have with young players. so As a Manchester United fan, how I think about young players is influenced strongly by two things, the Busby Babes and the Munich Ed disaster in 58, and the class of 92 who proved that you can win things with kids.
00:08:41
Global Sports Podcast Network
So for those who don't know, Busby Babes were a group of Manchester United footballers who had been through the United youth teams, reaching the first team under the management of Samat Busby, who had average age of 22 in the fifty seven to fifty eight season,
00:08:55
Global Sports Podcast Network
They were expected to dominate Europe due to their incredible performances. However, in 1958, they were taking off from Munich airport after playing a European championship game when their plane crashed in heavy snow and eight of the team's players died as a result, whilst others had long-term injuries.
00:09:15
Global Sports Podcast Network
Their loss cast a shadow over Manchester United that remains to this day. and was part of the beginning of a long tradition wherein youth players would play integral roles and become the forefront of the club's performances.
00:09:27
Global Sports Podcast Network
Decades later, the class of 92 were brought into into the first team under Sir Alex Ferguson, players like the Neville Brothers, Nicky Butt, Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs. You will know these some of these names.
00:09:38
Global Sports Podcast Network
Pundits suggested that the young team would never win a thing. However, they eventually won the treble in 1999, the Champions League, the Premier League and the f FA Cup. That was
Easing Young Talents into Major Roles
00:09:48
Global Sports Podcast Network
an achievement that has only been repeated once, and it was repeated once by Manchester City, which we will not talk about.
00:09:55
Global Sports Podcast Network
There is a deep desire to see stories like this repeated, young players being the focal points of teams leading to incredible victories. It's a really inspiring story.
00:10:07
Global Sports Podcast Network
And I think we've become obsessed with the notion of young players being dominant in women's football, especially in Europe. So the most common criticism that I hear of England manager Serena Riegemann is that she does not give youth chance and prefers her old guard.
00:10:27
Global Sports Podcast Network
Now, interestingly, similar accusations are always put ah on the Netherlands head coach, Andries Jonker, and there are rumours because he is leaving his post at the end of this year's Euros, and some rumours...
00:10:43
Global Sports Podcast Network
in the Netherlands have suggested that some of the players are not happy with his approach, where he pretty much, um you know, ah similar thing, that he sticks with his old favourites and doesn't isn't very progressive in terms of giving youth a chance.
00:10:59
Global Sports Podcast Network
In both of these cases, I don't actually think that's true. i know less about the Netherlands set-up, so and I won't talk about that as much, but I really don't think it's true in England.
00:11:12
Global Sports Podcast Network
um I think the Switzerland game proves that. ah Back in December, we had a game where we made 10 changes to the game before that included um players like Aggie Beaver-Jones, Grace Clinton, Maya Letizia.
00:11:28
Global Sports Podcast Network
All these players are getting chances. um And even the game against the USA, England actually had a lower average age level. ah for the starting 11 than the US s did. The US had an average age of like 28 or something and England's was 26.
00:11:44
Global Sports Podcast Network
So I don't believe that's true. However, it's a little bit besides the point. um The point that i'm trying to make is that a lot of fans seem to believe in the power of young game changers to come in and pull off something incredible.
00:11:58
Global Sports Podcast Network
And I'm not saying that I don't think that will happen. i mean, you just look at Grace Clinton and her performances at both United and England. You look at Maya Letizia, who has been incredible in defence for Manchester United this season as captain.
00:12:14
Global Sports Podcast Network
However, i just want to say that I do think there's a danger in this as well. When we constantly try and push young young players forward, International football, particularly in England, where we're coming from a period of unprecedented success, winning the Euros, there's a lot of noise around this England team.
00:12:33
Global Sports Podcast Network
It's a pressure cooker and at the senior level is unlike anything players will have experienced before. We have a strong pathway at England which helps bring some of that experience to younger players, but the sheer volume and level of noise around this England senior team is not something that is seen throughout the pathway.
00:12:50
Global Sports Podcast Network
Throughout the pathway, you don't get stadiums full of 37,000, 38,000 fans and um shouting and screaming. You don't get the amount of noise from the media, the amount of opinions from pundits, fans alike.
00:13:05
Global Sports Podcast Network
And I think that there's a lot more freedom to kind of get that exposure to high-level competitive football, ah international high-level competitive football, but without all of the noise ah or without most of the noise that accompanies it.
00:13:20
Global Sports Podcast Network
And I think it really could be a danger that if we expose young players to this too quickly, that it could be too much pressure and it could cause a lot of damage to them, not just their careers, but also just cause um a lot of kind of distress and upset.
00:13:41
Global Sports Podcast Network
And just think of when David Beckham was sent off for England ah in the World Cup, i think it was against Argentina. and receive death threats and everything. And he was in his very early 20s at that time.
00:13:54
Global Sports Podcast Network
And I think sometimes with the younger players, of course, they sometimes lack that kind of discipline to, you know, restrain themselves and can be a bit more impulsive.
00:14:06
Global Sports Podcast Network
And yeah, I just think there is a danger to so overly focusing on youth. I think in England, the... We most see this with Aggie Beaver-Jones.
00:14:20
Global Sports Podcast Network
She plays for Chelsea. She is a regular ah super sub for Chelsea coming on, scoring goals. And a lot of people have been calling for her to be starting games for England, um particularly pundits. I think Ian Wright suggested that she should have started against the US.
00:14:36
Global Sports Podcast Network
and Was it Germany or the USA? um And again, I think she's brilliant. This is not an attack on any young players, by the way. um I think they're absolutely brilliant. I'm just wary of kind of protecting them from ah the the big world and saying that, you know, they need to be brought in slowly. i think they need to be kind of introduced to this crazy world of fans and media and all this attention and focus and expectations.
00:15:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
And I don't think starting 20, she like 21 year old at Wembley at wembley in front of what was it 80 000 fans against germany would have been a very smart idea when the person had never played more than five minutes of football for england before um so i just think we need to be a bit more measured about it and i do think people kind of go over the top in the in how they think of the the uh youth in the england team i mean
00:15:40
Global Sports Podcast Network
In the Lionesses at the moment, we have quite a lot of young talents. We have Grace Clinton, as I mentioned, Maria Letizia, as I've mentioned, Jess Park, Jess Naz, Aggie Beaver-Jones, even Hannah Hampton's really young.
00:15:54
Global Sports Podcast Network
People forget that Ella Toon and Alessia Russo are both in their mid-20s. They're not exactly ah old. Even Captain Leah Williamson is only 27. think, she or way.
00:16:06
Global Sports Podcast Network
either way It's not an old team, which I think people also forget.
00:16:13
Global Sports Podcast Network
But it's quite interesting that the Netherlands head coach has had similar kind of complaints against him. Yeah, and I think that just shows that people do like, I think people are always looking for the next best thing rather than kind of also looking at, well, what are the strengths of what we've actually got?
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00:16:33
Global Sports Podcast Network
And I also think you need to make sure that you have those leaders in the team that can kind of guide those brilliant younger players as they're coming through.
00:16:44
Global Sports Podcast Network
Like with ah the class of 92 at Manchester United, you had you had people like Roy Keane, you had Cantona there, who would kind of, ah Peter Schmeichel, who would keep keep the youngsters in line and kind of guide them and be, yeah, and be a presence there.
00:17:02
Global Sports Podcast Network
on the pitch. And I think without those strong kind of older, more mature leaders, would the youngsters have hit the heights?
00:17:12
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, it's interesting with England because I think people seem to think that there's like a World Cup for winning under 21 set of players out there.
00:17:22
Global Sports Podcast Network
And while I think there are very talented players um in the set up I think it's an incredible amount of pressure to try and put on them to say come in and change the game against Germany at Wembley or the US at Wembley um on this stage so yeah those are definitely my thoughts about that
00:17:44
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00:18:01
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00:18:07
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Okay, so looking ahead, our last topic for today is the Nations League Match Day 2 fixtures. So let's start off with Scotland versus the Netherlands.
00:18:18
Global Sports Podcast Network
Scotland are still without a permanent head coach, which, I mean, i understand they want to take their time. and I guess they can because they don't have a major tournament this summer.
00:18:31
Global Sports Podcast Network
um However, surely for the good of kind of the team development and the school squad development, they would want to get someone in quickly.
00:18:43
Global Sports Podcast Network
i have a slight theory. Well, I would quite like actually, like it if ah the Netherlands head coach who is leaving at the end of the Euros gets a Scotland job.
00:18:55
Global Sports Podcast Network
That is quite a long time to wait. I don't know what Scotland's plans are for the summer since they don't have the Euros. um And ideally, I think it would be a good thing for the new manager to be in place before the summer so that any friendlies that are planned can be used to kind of suss out the team.
00:19:13
Global Sports Podcast Network
um However, that might be something in that they look at. ah So the Netherlands had a strong performance against Germany, particularly in that first half again. ah They're coming off that two-all draw.
00:19:27
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah That was quite high intensity. They'll be looking for a game that's a bit calmer for sure. Danielle van der Donk withdrew due to injury that she picked up in the in the Germany game.
00:19:40
Global Sports Podcast Network
We might well see a bit more rotation for the Netherlands this time around. i'm I would like to see Lise Kopp get a game. ah the Spurs goalkeeper. I think her Spurs performances kind of do warrant her getting a shout out, um particularly for the national team.
00:19:57
Global Sports Podcast Network
Scotland will be missing Erin Cuspert. She has a bruised rib, so she's back home at Chelsea. ah chelsea Scotland were improved in their performance against Austria, losing 1-0.
00:20:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
They're really struggling to score and kind of be creative and missing Erin Cuspert does not help with that. um So we'll see. I don't think it's going to be the Netherlands steamrolling Scotland. I hope not.
00:20:24
Global Sports Podcast Network
I really don't want to see that. um i could I could see it being quite close. I would love to see Scotland score. um So maybe a 3-1, 2-1, something like that. That would be my prediction.
00:20:39
Global Sports Podcast Network
And then we have the big one. On Wednesday, England versus Spain at Wembley. I'll be there. And yeah, I can't wait for it. I think and not a ah lot of people in England, we, English people, we like to catastrophize and we like to focus on the negative.
00:20:56
Global Sports Podcast Network
And so most people that I've seen talking about this online have just said, oh, Spain are going to win 6-0. Spain are going to completely, you know, smash us.
00:21:07
Global Sports Podcast Network
And my response is just people said that as well about the US. You know, people said that about the US game in December and we kept clean sheets. So You don't know. You don't know what's going to happen.
00:21:17
Global Sports Podcast Network
Spain have been inconsistent as well. Obviously, they've had their issues off the pitch, which I think, um I mean, that inevitably impacts the team, impacts the players in the squad.
00:21:29
Global Sports Podcast Network
I think their main danger will be the Arsenal player, Caldante. She knows this England defence particularly well. ah Leah Williamson, obviously, at Arsenal.
00:21:41
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, she knows this defence very well. she She scores you know some absolute bangers from distance. I think she's a real danger. um Spain will be missing a couple of players. England will be missing a couple of players, so it's not full strength against full strength.
00:22:00
Global Sports Podcast Network
um And then there's question, what do we want to see from England after that Portugal draw? I would like to see a more consistent 90 minutes. So the effort that we put in the first half against Portugal, I thought we played really, really well.
00:22:16
Global Sports Podcast Network
I would like to see that kind of intensity be more consistent. um However, I appreciate that the reason that dropped off wasn't necessarily because England were less energetic, but it was because Portugal changed their shape and we struggled to adapt to it.
00:22:33
Global Sports Podcast Network
um So maybe a bit more kind of adaptability and a bit more um impetus to to change things. I will always um will always defend Serena, ah but I would like to see some substitutes come on a little bit earlier, particularly if we're kind of struggling at a point.
00:22:54
Global Sports Podcast Network
um However, that is a thing with quite a few managers. it Yeah, it's not just her. Yeah. I would like us to be a bit more clinical. So Spain do have defensive frailties. They conceded two to Belgium.
00:23:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
It might be a game of just hoping to score more than they do. It might be a 5-3 or a 4-3 like the Germany game was. um We can score against this Spain team.
00:23:19
Global Sports Podcast Network
So I hope we do. I want us to be more clinical. I think the midfield without Georgia Stamway worked for large parts of the game against Portugal. Yeah.
00:23:30
Global Sports Podcast Network
The big question for me would be whether we start Grace Clinton again. um i was impressed with her during the first half against Portugal. I think she was really good. and She was very physical. She was very good on the ball. She was working hard off the ball. and She was getting back.
00:23:47
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, I was really impressed with that. And also I think she was linking up with Kira Walsh pretty well. i think during the second half, particularly when Portugal changed their shape, she kind of struggled a bit more and became a bit wobblier and Again, I think Grace Clinton is amazing.
00:24:03
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah She's 21. Yeah, I think she's fantastic. so This is by no means an attack on Grace Clinton. um I just think maybe with more experience, she will learn to adapt more quickly to the changes that are going on around her, ah like we saw against Portugal, and then kind of being a bit sloppy in possession. We saw that with other members of the team as well.
00:24:26
Global Sports Podcast Network
um And I think it's understandable as well because she isn't playing in a position she's kind of most often played in from Manchester United. ah she's And she's kind of being used as ah Georgia Stamway replacement, which um of course is needed.
00:24:43
Global Sports Podcast Network
But yeah, that's an interesting one for me, whether we will see the same kind of makeup of the midfield with Grace Clinton, Jess Park and Kira Walsh. Jess Park is also a question I wouldn't mind seeing against Spain Jess Naz. I know that's going to be a controversial comment, but Jess Naz has a lot of speed. She's very pacey down the left.
00:25:06
Global Sports Podcast Network
She's also very keen to defend, to get back in defence, so I wouldn't be surprised if we start with Jess Naz and everyone goes nuts and says, what is Serena doing?
00:25:16
Global Sports Podcast Network
um But yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. And it worked against the USA, so yeah. And Overall, I mean, the Nations League obviously is important. You want to win every game.
00:25:29
Global Sports Podcast Network
But everything at the moment, I think we need to remember the big picture. The big picture is the summer. And for this team, I think we have seen signs of progress um without key players in Lauren Hemp and Georgia Stanway and Alex Greenwood against Portugal. That first half was good.
00:25:45
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We need to build on that. ah We need to become more consistent. And this is all gearing towards the summer. And so I want to think of this team and then kind of think of it with hemp and Stanway and Greenwood back in and kind of think of what it will be like, be like then.
00:26:03
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And hopefully, i mean, i think it's possible. We'll see hemp Lauren hemp back in for April, which would be amazing. I definitely think that's possible. Maybe Greenwood, I think Manchester city have said that Greenwood slightly behind hemp in terms of progress.
00:26:18
Global Sports Podcast Network
Georgia Stanway, I think will be a bit later. Um, However, I've seen her with the Bayern team kind of bouncing around on crutches. So hopefully she won't be too far behind.
00:26:29
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Just ah do some relaxing in the tattoo studio and then she'll be and then I'm sure she'll be right as rain come the Euros. Well, that's all I have time for today.
00:26:40
Global Sports Podcast Network
So thank you for joining me. We look forward to welcoming you to the next episode Beyond the Pitch. And yeah, we'll see you soon.