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Shale Kaplan: MAI, Director at Kroll | Commercial Real Estate Appraisal
28 Plays1 year ago
Shale is primarily focused on real estate consulting for corporate clients, private equity firms, hedge funds, and real estate investment trusts (publicly traded & non-traded). Shale has competency to complete large multi-property, multinational & global valuation engagements. In addition, Shale has experience in valuing the majority of property types, including multi-family, retail, office, medical office, industrial, land, and healthcare (senior living and hospitals).
Shale has also completed many engagements for financial reporting and tax purposes including valuations for ASC 805 purchase accounting, lease accounting (favorable/unfavorable and right of use analyses) ASC 842, ASC 360 impairment analyses, and other tax and financial accounting purposes.
Prior to Kroll, Shale worked at Stout Risius Ross. At Stout, Shale focused on valuation appraisals for estate planning, tax appeal, and financial reporting purposes. Prior to Stout, Shale worked at Marcus & Millichap where he helped clients with the disposition and acquisitions of commercial real estate.
Shale received his Bachelor of Arts in Economics from Michigan State University. He is a Certified General real estate appraiser in Michigan, Texas, Florida, Nebraska, Minnesota, Colorado, Ohio, Illinois, and Missouri. He is a Designated Member of the Appraisal Institute. Shale also holds a real estate broker’s license in the state of Illinois.
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Transcript
Early Challenges and Ambitions
00:00:28
Speaker
Cool. So I know we had like a little bit of a prelim conversation over the phone, but tell me about your college experience. Like when you first went to Michigan State, what did you think you were going to end up graduating with degree wise? What did you end up actually doing? Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, first of all, Julia, thank you so much for having me on and I really appreciate the opportunity to tell my story.
Entry into Real Estate through Networking
00:00:51
Speaker
For me, growing up, I was not a good student and even a worse test taker. I always was more street smart, book smart, and I always pride myself in having more of an entire ECU than I do. So, starting out, there was no different three to five year classes, you know, that was your personal relationship with your professor, you know, it was a struggle. And, you know, your grade was really just based on two exams a semester, and it didn't play too well to me. But, you know, I did take
00:01:21
Speaker
But I was motivated to get into the business school and all my life I wanted to go into business and be successful. So I was definitely motivated to do that and was ambitious. And yeah, absolutely.
00:01:42
Speaker
Did you have anybody in your family who was in real estate? Like was that on your mind as a potential career end goal if you transitioned into the business program? No, no, not at all. My father was a lawyer. My mom was a kindergarten through third grade librarian for 35 years. So I had a little bit of the professional life there, but no, no, no one specifically in real estate. So kind of just fell into it and been loving ever since.
00:02:10
Speaker
Yeah.
Networking and Securing Internships
00:02:11
Speaker
Walk me through that transition. So you graduate from school and you just send out like a hundred thousand resumes to different companies or what did your search look like? Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, my senior year of college, I was applying for all types of jobs in the business fields, business lending, FX trading, equity research, investment banking. I was really all over the board and
00:02:33
Speaker
The thing I do recommend is I was setting up a lot of informational interviews. So just reaching out to people and sitting down there, nothing like a formal job was on the line or anything like that, but just hearing more about their stories and how they got into their careers and what their careers day-to-day were like. And that was really beneficial
Gaining Experience in Commercial Brokerage
00:02:51
Speaker
to me. And if there happened to be a job that they know of or another person they'd recommend, they would just spiral. And so that was really beneficial to me.
00:02:59
Speaker
And just meeting people in the field and networking was a really good experience. And I actually had a fraternity brother of mine whose uncle was in real estate and he was able to be my first internship the summer after I graduated. It was a small shop. It was a boutique commercial brokerage firm and really just learned a lot from him. And that was my first real experience and just absolutely loved it. And that just spiraled into my next future career.
00:03:30
Speaker
Yeah. So I want to ask about this internship, but first of all, I guess I resonate a little bit with you talking about setting up these informational interviews. What medium did you use to actually schedule those? And in what way did you ask people for them? Because I know a lot of people my age or a little bit or our age, you know, when you're leaving college, a little bit nervous about asking seasoned professionals for time, what was your approach to that?
00:03:55
Speaker
There was a lot of LinkedIn searching in terms of people within Michigan State. So there was always that commonality that you can find with people, you know, Hey, I saw you went to Michigan State. I also went to Michigan State. Same thing with different networking groups. I joined right out of college, young professionals of Chicago.
00:04:15
Speaker
So different networking groups that I saw maybe that they were part of or they had history
Transition to Marcus & Millichap
00:04:18
Speaker
with. So just trying to find common common ground and then also reach into my personal network as best I could. You're using my father's contacts and uncles and family friends and basically left no stone unturned and was just able to meet people that way. And the way I would reach out is just via email or via free phone call. I was getting used to calls.
00:04:41
Speaker
I remember in high school when all my friends were working at the pool or camp, I was making cold calls to different marketing firms trying to get an internship and ended up at a marketing firm near my home and worked there for three summers, junior year through college. So I was just always forward thinking and willing to make phone calls.
Shift to Appraisal Focus
00:05:01
Speaker
And so definitely not shy about it.
00:05:04
Speaker
I know we're not exactly at this point yet, but you worked at Marcus & Millichap for a while. This cold calling tendency you go as a young person sounds like it would be very much applicable there. Yeah, no, absolutely. And Marcus was a good first job out of college. After I did my internship at this boutique commercial real estate firm in Michigan, I was plowing around and Marcus & Millichap offered what's called a sales internship program. It was called SIP.
00:05:34
Speaker
And it's basically you were set up with a team of brokers. And so I was on this team of about five brokers in the retail area. And it was a good first job because it was half setting up trying to build your own book of business, doing commercial real estate brokerage, but then also doing more of the analytical side.
00:05:56
Speaker
which they're offering memorandums and, and doing all the values on the listings and the proposals and things like that. It was the experience and a good one starting off for sure.
00:06:07
Speaker
But what had you done in your internship to set you up for that? Were you an analyst or just kind of like an assistant in the office or what did that look like? Yeah, it was more on the marketing side. I remember putting together like a lot of flyers, a lot of basic financial analysis, things like that. I really just wanted to learn as much as I could and be a sponge and soak in as much information I could from my mentor over there. So it was just...
00:06:34
Speaker
Mainly on the day-to-day, it was mainly on the marketing side and financial analysis side, but there were so many good conversations I had with them that we were able to just talk generally more about real estate. That's just the best part of internships.
00:06:46
Speaker
Yeah, I guess I'm just wondering if you're doing mostly marketing stuff, was there somebody that you met in that company or outside of it that summer who kind of set you on a direction to get into appraising? Like somebody who directed you towards M&M? Or like, how is it that you ended up kind of finding your niche?
00:07:05
Speaker
You know, at, at Marcus and Millchap, I really did enjoy more the analytical side than the cold calling. You know, I'm a super positive person and just making the cold calls every day and being constantly rejected. It was just not very well for me. And I just like more of the analytical side of it. And I just remember Googling real estate analyst jobs, Chicago, and I was just applying everywhere. And the, the callback I got happened to be.
00:07:33
Speaker
appraisal firm. So in a way, I kind of fell into the career and then I've never looked back.
Role and Skills of an Appraiser
00:07:40
Speaker
And what does it look like to be an appraiser? Because I know at places like JLL where I'm currently based, we call you guys, our sales team calls you guys, we get a value on a property and that's kind of the extent of exposure that I have to your field. Yeah.
00:07:55
Speaker
So I'm more a manager at this point. So I'm helping out our analysts on our team, our senior associates on the team, help them through the projects. And with appraisal, you're getting long-term deadlines, which is nice because you're able to go through the whole process at your own efficiency pace.
00:08:13
Speaker
And so for me right now, I'm helping out the analysts get through the projects, more on the manager side, but also trying to do business development and bringing clients. And what's been really fun about my role right now is more the client-facing aspect of it. And I just love seeing a happy client at the end of the day, and that's what I'm all about.
00:08:35
Speaker
When we say get through the list of things that needs to be done, what does that mean? Yeah, so anything from getting property data on the properties, we start off, we call it SPINFO, subject property information, point tax records, zoning, writing the market research reports, things like that. Anything from that to the financial analysis, digging into
00:08:57
Speaker
the financials of the property and historically and projections and things like that. And then getting more into high, deeper financial analysis such as Argus modeling. We do a lot of that at a firm and just going through the entire appraisal process and then submitting a report to the client and helping them through the problem.
00:09:18
Speaker
So two questions here. First of all, do you think it's worth somebody getting Argus certified before they start applying for jobs in commercial real estate? Like I know some people say that it's a waste of time because you get a job and you can receive all sorts of onsite training that's more applicable to whatever project you actually have to get done, whatever kind of project you'll be working on. What's your take?
00:09:38
Speaker
Yeah, so it's a really good question. So for me, my first appraisal job working at Stout, we didn't do a lot of TCF and Argus modeling, but when I switched over to my current firm, Duff & Phelps, we now go back roll. The Argus modeling I knew was going to be a big part of my day-to-day and especially working with more institutional clients and reads and different funds. And I was pretty nervous about
00:10:03
Speaker
going into this new role with no Argus experience. So I actually took an Argus class and I didn't do the full formalized certification process, but I did take a class and I was able to download Argus on my laptop before starting this role. And it was beneficial just to play around and seeing how it works. I do recommend that and people coming out of college to get an exposure to financial modeling.
00:10:28
Speaker
But as you mentioned, there's definitely an option for people to get certified and to get your feet wet in the program. I think it would be beneficial.
00:10:36
Speaker
What was, I don't know if you remember, but what was the course called that you took? Was it company specific or? Yeah, I just went on Argus.com and there was different options you could take, but one of the options was pay this fee and you could able to download the program on your laptop. You could start clicking around with it. They gave you a case study so you can start plugging in different financial expenses and things like that. Mine was more of a do-it-yourself type of program. That's all I was looking for, just to get some exposure.
00:11:05
Speaker
And then like you said too, every company has their own methodologies and different analytical techniques. So when I really got into the job, it was great. And one of the things I love too about my firm is we're very team oriented and as a very collaborative environment. So just sitting in the cubicle next to my colleagues, I was able to just poke my head over and ask questions and things like that. And it was just super nice. So I was able to pick it up clean, luckily.
00:11:31
Speaker
And so that's something interesting that I hear from peers of mine who work at other brokerages is the culture when it comes to training analysts just varies so much from shop to shop. So for listeners, if you guys actually are looking to get in some sort of preliminary training before you start on the job, like looking for online trainings like this, or I know adventures in commercial real estate has a pretty extensive accelerator course. That's like 600 bucks or something. You can buy that and do it on your own.
00:11:56
Speaker
might help a little bit if you're in a swim or die situation and you don't have the kind of team that you're talking about here who's willing to help extensively.
Career Paths in Appraisal
00:12:05
Speaker
And then I was also going to ask, are you doing any sort of physical inspection as an appraiser of properties? Do you walk it and look for flaws? Things like that.
00:12:15
Speaker
Yeah, so we do do inspections. It really depends on the type of work we do. On appraisal, we do a lot of different types of what we call intended use. So like you mentioned before, financing, where we do a lot of financial reporting, or tax work, things like that. So it really just depends on the type of project we're working on.
00:12:36
Speaker
For financing, we definitely do inspect each property, but for a lot of times when we're doing financial reporting, we do what's called a desktop analysis where we just do it via our computers and we don't need to inspect the property. But it is fun to have the opportunity to travel and to see the different properties. I always like to go out to the different sites and to meet people because when you're really going out there, you do get a better sense of the property and what all is involved. It is a fun little aspect of the job.
00:13:06
Speaker
you
00:13:07
Speaker
Do you need a super intimate knowledge of your territory, would you say? Are you Chicago-based exclusively when it comes to the buildings that you appraise? Yeah. So I mainly focus on the Midwest. And a big part of appraisal, which I definitely want to touch on, is the licensing. So getting state certified license, and I'm a state certified license in Illinois and different states around the Midwest. But I mainly focus on Midwest properties. So I'm all over the Midwest. I don't focus just on Chicago.
00:13:37
Speaker
And a lot of our clients are more financial reporting and REITs. So they're acquiring properties all over the Midwest. That's primarily where I focus. Okay. So then if you're dealing with a lot of bigger entities to try to win business, what exactly does that look like? Because you said that you personally have a focus now on business development. So is that like mostly a marketing role? Are you going out and just networking with people over drinks?
00:14:03
Speaker
Yeah, it's definitely a smaller portion of my day-to-day, but I'm just trying to, as my career furthers along, I'm trying to make it more of a priority. But yeah, trying to network and go to different conferences. We do a... It's called NARITE, which is a big REIT conference every year. So just attending that and
00:14:25
Speaker
and networking around and just trying to gather businesses as much as we can and meet people on drinks and things like that. It's been fun, but it's definitely nerve-wracking. When I joined my firm, I told my managing director, I said, I don't want to be one of those braziers just to hide behind their computers the whole time. I want to get out there and meet people and witness this.
00:14:46
Speaker
And it's a lot of fun when you propose on a big portfolio and it comes through and they sign the gauge flutter. You know that you'll bring that in. So it's been fun. Is it common to see appraisers actually in that role where they're just constantly sitting in their desk and working on the computer all day? Or does this tend to be a little bit more of a social role and you knew that you wanted to kind of fit into that niche more right off the bat?
00:15:12
Speaker
Yeah, what I really like about it is the flexibility to take the career wherever you want to go. So when you're an appraiser, there's really two types of career paths. There's one called fee split or salary base. Salary base is the main accounting firms, Deloitte, Ernst & Young, RSM, R Firm, Kroll, Koolahan, Loki, and so forth. And then there's the other appraisers that are part of the brokerage firms like the CBRE, Cushman Wayfield, Collier. Those people are on fee split.
00:15:42
Speaker
And fee split is basically your compensation is based on how many reports you produce. They're also called like, quote unquote, production appraisers. Those people are not de-incentivized to business development, but they're given a lot of business from the company. So those people have the chance just to
00:16:03
Speaker
do reports and make a good career that way. So whether an introvert or an extrovert, appraisal is a really good feel because you have an opportunity just to sip on your computer and do reports and make money that way, or you can go out, get business and
00:16:19
Speaker
and whatnot. And for me, I've really enjoyed more of the salary career path just because I kind of view things as an opportunity cost and doing fee split. Tonight, I'm seeing a movie with a friend, but if I was in fee split, I would want to stay home and work another three hours and get another $2,000 on a report.
Entrepreneurial Potential in Real Estate
00:16:38
Speaker
So for me, I'd rather just enjoy the salary life and take it from there. So I enjoy my time off.
00:16:44
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. So then I was going to ask if it's common for appraisers to break away from their home companies and start their own shop. But it sounds like if that's your inclination, you would just work within a fee split structure. Yeah, no, definitely. And as you gain more traction and you can meet more clients and build your own book of business, I have seen more appraisers start their own companies. I definitely think it's more common than brokers starting their own companies.
00:17:14
Speaker
You want the big brand name of Marcus Miller chap or Cushman away field on your fly flyers and things like that. But I would say it is more common in the appraisal field to go out and put up your own shingle, as they say. So that's definitely an option that people want to do. And it's fun that way too. You, you could be a business owner and entrepreneurial in yourself.
00:17:35
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. So if you had to make a pitch for why somebody should try to enter the world of commercial real estate through learning how to do appraisals, what would that sound like? Do you think it is a really good point of entry or should people maybe start somewhere else and find their way? No, I think it's excellent just because I think it gives you a really good foundation of any sort of real estate career doing valuation. Because whether you want to go into development or acquisitions or even asset management
00:18:05
Speaker
You're going to want to know how to value a property and build an income statement and get to net operating income and things of that nature.
Current Role at Kroll and Career Satisfaction
00:18:13
Speaker
So I just think it's a really excellent foundation and it could take you anywhere you want to go. Sure. Okay. And do you want to be at Kroll long-term or what is your five to 10 year plan? Yeah, no, I absolutely love where I'm at right now. And I just want to keep doing what I'm doing and keep building. And I just love being up now.
00:18:35
Speaker
a little bit older, so I'm more of a mentor and a manager. And I just love seeing the growth of our analysts when they get promoted to senior and so forth. So I just love seeing that and being more a manager. So no, I'm super happy where I'm at. And yeah, I absolutely love it.
00:18:52
Speaker
I think so. You mentioned being in college and not loving school as much. I think if a lot of people could speak to their younger selves, if they relate to what you said and just like tell them that they're going to end up in a place professionally that they really enjoy, that would just offer such a degree of motivation that maybe textbooks or class time doesn't. So my next question for you is like what personal traits have you really had to be intentional about developing to get to the point where you are now?
00:19:22
Speaker
Yeah, no, I typically want people to stay positive and I'm a super positive person and for a believer that things will work out.
Career Development Insights
00:19:30
Speaker
So, you know, like for instance, like in college, like I was super bummed, like I didn't end up getting into the business school, which is a huge blow to me. And it was very, very depressing.
00:19:40
Speaker
And, but I just, I just kept on going and I realized, okay, if maybe if I major in economics, that I could still get a chance to get into the business world and get a foundation that way. And that's what I did. And, but just knowing to stay super positive. And, and if you have a target firm, like if you want to work at Goldman Sachs and you know that your resume or your college GPA won't get you in the door right away, like just work somewhere else for a couple of years. And then get in the back door a couple of years later, because
00:20:08
Speaker
If you're interviewing three, four years of experience, they typically don't even look at your college GPA anymore. They're just looking at your most recent experience. And that's where you could talk about in the interview is what you've been doing the last couple of years. And so I just tell people, keep sticking with it, stay positive. And there's always an opportunity. Like at my current firm now, like no way I would have been able to be hired right out of college. But if you work a couple of years, able to have the experience, then that's the way to do it. Okay.
00:20:37
Speaker
Are there any like soft skills specifically that come to mind as having been really valuable?
Traits for Professional Success
00:20:43
Speaker
Like I know to insert personal experience here, I am not like I'm a super introverted person and the older I get, the more like lucrative and helpful I realize it is to really be able to speak to people. So that is something that is just like an everyday life's work thing for me. But do you have anything similar?
00:21:00
Speaker
Totally. And every interview, I start the same way. I say we have a strict no-jerk policy. Everyone is extremely nice. We want to create a safe and collaborative environment. Everyone needs to be very kind and treat everyone with respect. So I start the interview off that way just so they know that that's what the notion of the group that we have. And that's what I'm looking for. It's just everyone to be nice. I walk into my office, I make sure I say hi to all the admin staff, make sure I'd say hi to
00:21:27
Speaker
all my team even before I start my day. So it's just a little things like that. And just having a smile on your face. I've gotten through conversations and through awkward times just by having a smile. And there's just a way that you can collaborate with people and find commonality and that's what I do to be successful. So that's what I'm looking for. People just to be open and to be nice and also just to be a sponge and just to learn as much as they can.
00:21:55
Speaker
For any job, it takes at least a year to feel comfortable. So just being able to have a willingness to learn is crucial. Right. And a real value for time as well. Totally.
00:22:07
Speaker
Like I noticed, again, among people that I work with, those who are really willing to put in the hours, I mean, as soon as they get to work, they're fully plugged in as opposed to just wasting time doing whatever for four out of eight hours that they're in the office, right? Exactly. Time is like, I go back and forth about it, but it's like the most valuable asset I could have and just making sure that we're producing as much work quality and good work quality that we can in the amount of time that we have. Right.
00:22:36
Speaker
You touched on this earlier, but I really like to ask this of all my guests on the show. What is your work-life balance just on average? I know you mentioned seeing a movie with a friend tonight, so I think that speaks a little bit to something more lax, which I love to hear, but maybe that's not the case. I mean, do you usually work 10 hour days?
00:22:54
Speaker
Yeah. So work-life balance is really important to me. And, you know, I think, I think our generation coming up too, it's just more of a, um, more of an emphasis and yeah, it's just super important to me. And I remember starting at, at Stout and it was one of my first weeks and I saw my managing director leave at like two or three PM to meet his, to go to his son, swim me. And I thought this was so cool. Like this is exactly the type of career I want to go into. Like I would absolutely one day love to be a coach of my son's baseball game or something like that.
00:23:24
Speaker
be that that flexibility. So, you know, working at appraisal, it definitely gives you that. And it's been tremendous. But what's really nice too, is just having email on your phone and being able to work mobile. And when I try and travel, I'm able to bring my laptop and things like that. So I think with the technology, it's gotten so much better.
00:23:42
Speaker
over the years that you're able to work mobilely, which is great. But yeah, work-life balance is super important to me. And there are definitely times where we do, you know, quote unquote, grind it out and work really late. But luckily not too many times where we've had to work.
00:23:58
Speaker
you know, on the weekends or things like that. And I try to have a hard stop, you know, five, 6pm type of thing. So, but I'm always on my phone answering emails. That's something about me too, that I try to be really good about is just responsiveness. And people coming out of college as well too should know that you can get really far in your career just by being responsive. Like, you know,
00:24:18
Speaker
You wouldn't even guess that people are not responsive, which is crazy to me. I feel like the easiest thing you could do is just be responsive. I try to answer all emails within 24 hours and try to answer clients and pick up the phone as fast as I can. You just got to be responsive. If you're that, it can go a long way, definitely.
Licensing and Career Potential
00:24:37
Speaker
It's interesting to hear you talk about this in the context of corporate because usually I hear people stress the importance of responsiveness with contractors. People are helping with renovating properties. That's kind of a classic case where there's an industry full of people that don't pick up their phone, but you make a good point. Regardless of what you're doing, just being on the ball when it comes to answering calls and emails and just interacting with people is such a show of dedication to what you're doing. Exactly. Yeah.
00:25:06
Speaker
It goes a long way. We're a client business. We're here to make clients happy. I have a lot of friends that work for the REITs, so they are the client and they have more, say, flexibility in a sense where they're working on internal deadlines or things like that. But when you're an appraiser and the money is from the clients, you want to make them happy, definitely.
00:25:30
Speaker
Are there other aspects of being an appraiser that people wouldn't necessarily assume would be the case? If a college student were to go on Google and type in a commercial appraiser, what is it actually like? What would come up that would surprise them? Yeah, I think the
00:25:45
Speaker
licensing is a big hill for people to get their arms around. It's a lot of classes that you have to take to become a state certified general license. I think it's about 300 hours, which is about eight or nine classes. So it does scare people a lot. We have a lot of people in our group that
00:26:04
Speaker
went to University of Wisconsin and they're able to major in a real estate program. So if you go to a school and you're a real estate major, you're able to pass out on a lot of the classes that you have to take and can go right to the final state certified exam, which is great.
00:26:19
Speaker
But for me, I didn't major in real estate, so I had to do all the classes. And there's an organization in which I recommend people go on their website called the Appraisal Institute. And on there, you can select your career, building your career, and they have all the information online about how to take the classes and how to become a state certified general license. So we're all working towards that. And people coming out of college,
00:26:45
Speaker
You know, they just went through four years of school. So to tell them, you know, another 300 hours, it's tough, but it's just, it's, it's going to benefit your career, especially if you want to be stick with an appraiser, but everyone's working towards that. And then once you get that.
00:27:02
Speaker
You're done with the state licensing, but then through the appraisal institute, which is a private organization, there's what's a designation called the MAI, which is the same similar equivalent to like a CPA or a CFA. So this is called the MAI, which stands for Member Appraisal Institute.
00:27:19
Speaker
And it's basically just another three or four classes and then an exam and then in a demonstration of knowledge report where they give you a fake property and you do a report on it. So it's a little bit more steps, and I was able to receive mine last year, which was a huge improvement for me and was super excited about it.
Opportunities for Young Appraisers
00:27:37
Speaker
But for that, you basically are able to go to court and testify on a case and it just opens up a lot more doors and
00:27:45
Speaker
So it's been a great experience, but yeah, it's definitely a lot of, a lot of work. And I think that scares people sometimes, but I know they're, they're working on lowering the barriers to entry. And cause a lot of the appraisers nationally are, I think the average age is like 55 or 60 different appraiser. So, you know, there's a lot of opportunity for young people to get in the field because a lot of.
00:28:07
Speaker
the older generation is about to retire. So I know the appraisal is just working on trying to lower the barriers to entry for people. So why is there such a massive age disparity here?
00:28:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think just a lot of it was a really popular profession. And yeah, just not a lot of young people are getting into it. So we're hoping for more young people and more emphasis on it. Yeah. Wait, so I'm really curious. Why do you think that is? Why are more young people not choosing to go the appraiser route? Like once again, to pull in conversations that I've had with other people for plumbers and electricians and more blue collar trades, there is a
00:28:47
Speaker
lack of younger professionals because there has been such a huge push in society for everybody to go to college and get a degree. So fewer people will enroll in trade schools, but is something like similar barrier-ish wise happening?
00:29:01
Speaker
You know, I think a lot of with the licensing, it's a, you know, it's a big kind of hill to climb and, and things like that. But yeah, I feel like a lot of people like know about it. You know, when you go into real estate, you're thinking of like the traditional routes, which is brokerage or working in acquisitions at a RE.
00:29:18
Speaker
work as a management i feel like it's all it's more down the ladder of opportunities but that's why i like one of the things i love about doing this is just getting the word out that you know there's there's great potential in a career here and and i've absolutely had an amazing experience doing that so yeah either aspects of your job that you don't enjoy like in whatever capacity
00:29:39
Speaker
I would say that once again, the worst part is just the licensing and things like that. But once you get through that, then it's all great and lush from there.
00:29:52
Speaker
Okay, cool. Do any other insight, I know we're like running up against your 30 minute mark here, but any other insight for young people in college or high school who are considering following in your footsteps, like should know or consider? Yeah, I would just say, you know, keep sticking with it. Being positive is super important and just know that things will work out and keep networking and yeah, there's just a lot of opportunity out there and yeah, just stay positive and it'll all work out.