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104 Sunyi Dean | Gothic Fantasy Author
541 Plays2 years ago
Bestselling fantasy author, Sunyi Dean is on this episode talking about the amazing success of her debut, The Book Eaters alongside a candid look behind the curtain of publishing.
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Transcript
Introduction and Partnership Announcement
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode is brought to you in partnership with WriteMentor.
00:00:03
Speaker
If you're a children's writer, you've probably heard of WriteMentor, and if not, do I have a treat for you.
00:00:07
Speaker
WriteMentor is a group of authors and friends who've built a supportive system for fellow storytellers from picture books up to young adult that delivers mentoring programs, courses and conferences and much, much more.
00:00:17
Speaker
WriteMentor has a range of services, but if you stick around until the end of the episode, you can find out how to get an entire month of their premium subscription, the WriteMentor Hub, for free.
00:00:26
Speaker
So I will see you at the end.
00:00:28
Speaker
Now, let's get back to the
Guest Introduction: Sunny Deen
00:00:29
Speaker
episode.
00:00:29
Speaker
So our podcast is called Right and Wrong.
00:00:32
Speaker
Are these your notes?
00:00:33
Speaker
These.
00:00:33
Speaker
Are these your notes about what we're going to say?
00:00:36
Speaker
Anything.
00:00:36
Speaker
Nailed it.
00:00:36
Speaker
It's a short answer.
00:00:38
Speaker
So how many novels did you not finish?
00:00:40
Speaker
Oh my God, so many.
00:00:42
Speaker
It was perfect.
00:00:44
Speaker
What are you talking about?
00:00:45
Speaker
This is not a good one.
00:00:46
Speaker
Ooh, a spicy question.
00:00:49
Speaker
I love it.
00:00:50
Speaker
This is it,
Auction Process for 'The Book Eaters'
00:00:51
Speaker
guys.
00:00:51
Speaker
The big secret to getting published is you have to write a good book.
00:00:55
Speaker
You had it here first.
00:00:57
Speaker
Wait.
00:00:59
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the Right and Wrong podcast.
00:01:01
Speaker
Today I'm joined by author of Sunday Times bestseller, The Book Eaters.
00:01:07
Speaker
It's Sunny Deen.
00:01:08
Speaker
Hi, Sunny.
00:01:09
Speaker
Welcome to the show.
00:01:10
Speaker
Sunny Deen Hi.
00:01:11
Speaker
Thank you for having me.
00:01:12
Speaker
Thanks so much for joining me.
00:01:13
Speaker
Let's
00:01:14
Speaker
get right into it with the debut novel, The Book Eaters, which came out last year and has since become Sunday Times bestseller, nominated for Goodreads Best Fantasy.
00:01:27
Speaker
And then already, I mean, even before that, there was a lot of buzz for it because am I right in thinking it went to a four-way auction?
00:01:35
Speaker
I think that's what it says on Bookseller and we never corrected them.
00:01:40
Speaker
Oh.
00:01:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:42
Speaker
um
Reflecting on Debut Success
00:01:43
Speaker
because i think i don't know i don't know exactly how they got that impression but we're uh i mentioned to my agent we're just like what we'll leave it like it it went to a small auction between harper and i think titan and um but i wasn't going to correct the bookseller and make it sound less impressive so we just left it fair enough i mean yeah just roll with it sounds great i mean it's still good just to be up between between two publishers though
00:02:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:09
Speaker
It means you have, someone will take you on.
00:02:11
Speaker
Yes.
00:02:11
Speaker
That's always the risk when you hold on to UK rights and things.
00:02:14
Speaker
If no one buys them, you're left sitting with them.
00:02:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:18
Speaker
But I mean, what an amazing response to your, to your debut sort of novel.
00:02:23
Speaker
How are you, how are you feeling about it sort of a year later?
00:02:27
Speaker
Um, yeah.
00:02:29
Speaker
I guess the goalposts always move.
00:02:32
Speaker
You're happy for about five minutes and then the next problem shows up and the next problem.
00:02:38
Speaker
That's not fair, actually.
00:02:39
Speaker
I was happier for longer than five minutes.
00:02:41
Speaker
Five months.
00:02:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:43
Speaker
I think because they came for the offer in August 2020 from Tor and it's now...
00:02:49
Speaker
January 2023.
00:02:51
Speaker
So enough time has passed that it does settle down.
00:02:53
Speaker
Yes.
00:02:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:55
Speaker
It feels like a long time ago back then, but you, but it's good to celebrate the, celebrate each win as they come.
00:03:02
Speaker
Even if it is, you
Sunny's Writing Journey
00:03:03
Speaker
know, as you said, the goalposts will move and there will be a new challenge ahead of you.
00:03:07
Speaker
And had you written much before Book Eaters?
00:03:11
Speaker
Um, I'd written some short stories, but alongside that, I think I'd written two novels before then.
00:03:20
Speaker
Um, the first one, which I'd rewritten over and over and over and just never found an agent, never got anywhere.
00:03:25
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It wasn't a very good book.
00:03:27
Speaker
The second one, I did get an agent and all the publishers said no.
00:03:30
Speaker
And, um, that was about,
00:03:33
Speaker
18 months of slow rejections coming in.
00:03:35
Speaker
So that's the part where you can go on submission and your book can die.
00:03:40
Speaker
And the third book was the one that I didn't feel good about, but it sold very quickly.
00:03:46
Speaker
So I guess that's the one.
00:03:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:48
Speaker
I always experienced that when I was at school doing exams and I always found that the ones that I wasn't confident about coming out were the ones that actually I ended up doing much better in.
00:04:00
Speaker
Yeah, I think the longer you write, the less you have a perspective on your own work.
00:04:05
Speaker
I think Jeff Vandermeer has talked about this, where he said he's at the stage where he just has no idea anymore whether it's good or it's bad or anything.
00:04:12
Speaker
So he just sends it to his agent and he hopes for the best.
00:04:14
Speaker
That's so funny.
00:04:16
Speaker
I definitely relate to that.
00:04:18
Speaker
And the irony of that being that when authors get big enough, they actually sort of get less and less edited.
00:04:24
Speaker
And some authors just don't get edited once they're famous enough.
00:04:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:29
Speaker
The sprinkling of fairy dust.
Publishing Industry Trends
00:04:32
Speaker
Exactly.
00:04:33
Speaker
And you signed a three book deal, which I found Amazon very helpfully listed online as Untitled Book 2 and Untitled Book 3 out in 2023 and 2024 respectively.
00:04:49
Speaker
Are these going to be sequels?
00:04:51
Speaker
Are you interested in doing sequels or are you more into a kind of standalone novels?
00:04:57
Speaker
So I think when you go into trade publishing, the thing that you really have to be flexible on is whether or not how many books you get to write, because that titles and covers are probably the three things that they have the most say in.
00:05:13
Speaker
I did assume Book Eaters would be a series because it's a fantasy novel and that's normal for our genre.
00:05:18
Speaker
But when Tor picked it up, they said, we don't envision it as a series.
00:05:21
Speaker
We envision it as a standalone.
00:05:23
Speaker
Interesting.
00:05:25
Speaker
Um, there's a big industry shift towards standalones at the moment, uh, for a whole host of reasons I can go into if you find interesting or leave it out.
00:05:32
Speaker
I don't mind either way.
00:05:33
Speaker
No, I'd like to hear kind of your thoughts on it.
00:05:36
Speaker
Okay.
00:05:38
Speaker
Basically there's a, there's a problem with series where readership collapses, not collapses, but it, it drops with every book.
00:05:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:45
Speaker
So if, if your follow through is what they call it, your follow through readership for book two in a trilogy is 50%.
00:05:52
Speaker
You are doing amazing.
00:05:54
Speaker
I see.
00:05:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:55
Speaker
Um, and then, so, you know, it's kind of having for every book almost.
00:05:59
Speaker
And that means that you're committing to buying books where you know that there'll be dwindling sales, but the production costs don't go down.
00:06:07
Speaker
Uh, and that's a lot, that's hard for on the publishers.
00:06:09
Speaker
That's hard on the authors.
00:06:11
Speaker
And if your first book doesn't do well, you're both chained to the series, which is just dragging you down like an anchor.
00:06:16
Speaker
Um, and I think, um,
00:06:19
Speaker
publishers are aware of that.
00:06:20
Speaker
They're moving more towards duologies and standalones because if your first book bombs, they just launch you again.
00:06:25
Speaker
They just launch you again.
00:06:26
Speaker
They keep trying.
00:06:28
Speaker
And also mainstream readers, if they want to attract the mainstream market, they tend to read standalones.
00:06:35
Speaker
I guess you look at someone like Neil Gaiman or Claire North, they release a lot of standalones in that bracket.
00:06:43
Speaker
So it's reflected the changing market.
00:06:46
Speaker
The indies are kind of dominating series and
00:06:48
Speaker
I think publishers are leaning more towards standalones.
Marketing and Crate Sales
00:06:52
Speaker
That is interesting.
00:06:54
Speaker
Okay.
00:06:54
Speaker
So for you, it's going to be standalones that your, your, your followup books.
00:06:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:01
Speaker
Uh, and I'm glad of that because I have, publishers are not always great at supporting series.
00:07:06
Speaker
They don't tend to do a lot of promo for book two and three.
00:07:08
Speaker
They just, their, their entire sales strategy is to sell book one.
00:07:11
Speaker
So I'm happy to be writing standalones and not stuck in that trap.
00:07:17
Speaker
Um, but maybe one day we'll do a sequel.
00:07:20
Speaker
It would be a standalone sequel.
00:07:23
Speaker
So like making it into a duology.
00:07:26
Speaker
Making it to like, maybe write a sequel, which ties up some of the events, but it's standalone to read if you want to kind of, yeah.
00:07:34
Speaker
That makes sense.
00:07:35
Speaker
in a sort of complicated yet simple way.
00:07:40
Speaker
As The Book Eaters came out, it hit a lot of lists and it received quite a bit of critical acclaim in the UK.
00:07:52
Speaker
What was,
Predicting Book Success
00:07:53
Speaker
I mean, as a debut novel, that must be very, very exciting.
00:07:57
Speaker
What was it like?
00:07:58
Speaker
And did you have to do anything to propel that onto those lists?
00:08:05
Speaker
No, and I think that's something that I struggled with, that I don't think the book is bad.
00:08:10
Speaker
I don't think I did it badly, but I was also very aware after signing that how much of publishing can be kind of predetermined, that almost from the moment I
00:08:21
Speaker
your book is bought, the advance is offered, that sets the course for the kind of marketing and support the book gets.
00:08:27
Speaker
So I didn't really do anything.
00:08:28
Speaker
I don't have much of a platform.
00:08:30
Speaker
I don't have much reach.
00:08:31
Speaker
I don't have a lot of childcare to travel.
00:08:33
Speaker
I think I've done one convention and a couple of small events and the rest of it has been publisher marketing and
00:08:42
Speaker
Harper is very, very good on their marketing team when they want to throw effort behind something they do.
00:08:48
Speaker
So all of that really came from Tor and Harper doing things in the background.
00:08:53
Speaker
When you say that once it's been signed and the advance has been agreed, everything's kind of set in motion.
00:09:02
Speaker
What do you mean by that?
00:09:03
Speaker
As in like, do you think from that kind of signing, that moment, you can sort of guess how much of a backing this is going to get and where you're going to be able to see it in the sort of media and advertising?
00:09:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:18
Speaker
So you get marketing plans early on, but you also have a sense that basically publishers have lead titles that they put a lot of work and money into.
00:09:26
Speaker
And then they have mid-list, which are almost the titles that they publish, but they don't support nearly as much.
00:09:33
Speaker
And there's a very, very big gap between the support that those books receive.
00:09:38
Speaker
Most of my friends are mid-list, so I'm kind of acutely aware of that.
00:09:41
Speaker
And
00:09:42
Speaker
I think it's good for me to keep talking to them and to always remind myself that the worst thing you can do is believe you're on hype and start believing that you're some kind of genius when effectively you've been picked for success by a variety of reasons.
00:09:54
Speaker
So when I say that the course is set, I mean, the book came out in September in the UK, 2022, but I knew in January, 2022, that it was going to hit list.
00:10:01
Speaker
Oh, how did you know?
00:10:08
Speaker
Because it sold to a crate and it had a special edition of Waterstones and they were doing various other things and that just meant that those things together meant we would get the numbers on launch day to do it.
Writing Pressure and Editorial Challenges
00:10:20
Speaker
That's what I mean by so much is decided in advance that you know...
00:10:23
Speaker
nine or 10 months before launch, how the book is going to go roughly.
00:10:28
Speaker
And you don't know after that, but, and there are always variables, you know, publishers do sometimes have books, they put a ton of money into it and it falls face down.
00:10:35
Speaker
I think whoever put money into that Liz Truss PM book is probably gnashing their teeth right now, but it happens, isn't it?
00:10:43
Speaker
So, but you do have the odds stacked in your favor and they can do that for you.
00:10:49
Speaker
And you're more likely to
00:10:51
Speaker
You're more likely to follow that trajectory than not.
00:10:54
Speaker
What do you think it was about the book eaters that Harper kind of said, okay, well, let's really give this thing a lot of backing?
00:11:05
Speaker
I guess hype builds hype.
00:11:07
Speaker
So Tor was very excited by it, but I think editor is very personal.
00:11:12
Speaker
I know that my editor, Vicky, she basically looks through manuscripts and she finds one she's excited about.
00:11:18
Speaker
She just throws everything into it, which is, it works for her to do that.
00:11:23
Speaker
But I guess probably the biggest thing was the crate sales.
00:11:26
Speaker
That's a huge driver of books in science fiction and fantasy in the UK right now, a big determiner of the market.
00:11:34
Speaker
And what do you mean by crate sales?
00:11:38
Speaker
Have you heard of Illumicrate and Fairyloon and places like that?
00:11:42
Speaker
Oh, yes, yes, yes.
00:11:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:44
Speaker
So they're basically companies that produce special editions for a subscription service.
00:11:48
Speaker
People subscribe.
00:11:49
Speaker
They get a box every month that has a book and it has some cool items.
00:11:52
Speaker
And the book is usually a special edition.
00:11:54
Speaker
It comes with extra artwork and its own special cover and things like that.
00:11:58
Speaker
And they're signed by the author.
00:11:59
Speaker
And some of those subscription services are very big, like
00:12:03
Speaker
If you sign with a subscription service, you might be guaranteed 20,000 or 30,000 books right out the gate, which is a lot.
00:12:12
Speaker
There are books that can't be returned because books sold to bookstores can be returned if nobody buys them.
00:12:19
Speaker
So that's kind of shaping the UK sci-fi and fantasy market.
00:12:23
Speaker
Is this a crate book?
00:12:24
Speaker
Will the crates pick it up?
00:12:26
Speaker
How many books will they give us?
00:12:27
Speaker
How many subscribers do they think will take it on or pass?
00:12:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:31
Speaker
And that was probably the moment where Harper started to be like, okay, I think they were a bit unsure about it.
00:12:37
Speaker
They were like, oh, this premise is ridiculous because it does sound ridiculous.
00:12:41
Speaker
Will people actually go for it?
00:12:43
Speaker
And Illumicrate threw their weight behind it and really liked it.
00:12:46
Speaker
So then it definitely started to pick up more with Harper and kind of, you know, that got it to the Waterstone Special Edition.
00:12:52
Speaker
Sorry, it sounds so cynical, all this stuff.
00:12:55
Speaker
But I always feel like I have to explain to people
00:12:58
Speaker
it wasn't anything that I did.
00:13:00
Speaker
I'm proud of the book and I'm glad I wrote it, but I also got really lucky.
00:13:05
Speaker
And that is a huge component in publishing.
00:13:07
Speaker
And it does set the tone for how you launch.
00:13:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:11
Speaker
Do you think, you know, with that in mind, does it sort of add an extra level of pressure for your next book?
00:13:20
Speaker
Yeah, the pressure
International Literary Representation
00:13:22
Speaker
is there, I think.
00:13:23
Speaker
it's taken me over a year just to pin down the idea for the next book.
00:13:27
Speaker
And that was a lot of going back and forth with my editor with them saying, could you write something that's similar, but not too similar and different, but not too different, but also more of the same, but still different.
00:13:40
Speaker
And this is too genre and this is too mainstream and this is too magic and this is too sci-fi and just on and on.
00:13:44
Speaker
So just going back and forth with ideas.
00:13:47
Speaker
So that pressure is definitely there.
00:13:49
Speaker
But you've pinned it down now.
00:13:52
Speaker
You're working on it.
00:13:52
Speaker
How...
00:13:54
Speaker
I know that a general trend with publishers and how they'll market authors is that they will do a lot of marketing for a debut author because they're essentially creating your brand as the writer.
00:14:12
Speaker
And then they'll often do a little bit less marketing for a follow-up book because you now have an established sort of readership and fan base that will likely get that book anyway.
00:14:23
Speaker
Do you know what kind of degree of marketing your follow-up will get compared to the book eaters?
00:14:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:31
Speaker
I think my limited experience is that's very editor by editor based.
00:14:36
Speaker
Okay.
00:14:37
Speaker
Um, I think I have, I feel that I have really good editors.
00:14:39
Speaker
We get on really well.
00:14:40
Speaker
They're really passionate.
00:14:41
Speaker
Um, I think my editor at TOR is, she's called Lindsay Hall and she's basically the editor that all my friends want as well, because she does just throw everything into her books.
00:14:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:51
Speaker
Um, she has some books that are smaller.
00:14:53
Speaker
She has some books that are very big, like the Atlas sixes and legends and lattes are, um,
00:14:58
Speaker
some other, you know, some books that she's got on her kind of client list, but she treats everyone basically the same and puts a lot of weight behind it.
00:15:06
Speaker
So I don't worry about it too much, but also I guess, um, the money's agreed.
00:15:11
Speaker
So they have to sort of pay up as long as I keep handing them in.
00:15:14
Speaker
Um, I don't know.
00:15:16
Speaker
It will be interesting to see how, how that follows through.
00:15:20
Speaker
Is, is Lindsay the same editor that did the book eaters?
00:15:24
Speaker
Oh yeah, sorry.
00:15:25
Speaker
So she was my acquiring editor on the American side and...
00:15:28
Speaker
Vicky was my acquiring editor on the UK side and they worked together on the edit letters.
00:15:33
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:15:34
Speaker
Interesting.
00:15:35
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:15:36
Speaker
Oh, cause of course you're Harper in the UK, but Tor in the US.
00:15:39
Speaker
Yeah, that's right.
00:15:40
Speaker
And speaking of the US, you were actually born in the US.
00:15:45
Speaker
Yes.
00:15:45
Speaker
Grew up in Hong Kong, but now live in the UK and you are signed with Naomi Davis, who is your literary agent over at Bookends Literary in the US.
00:15:58
Speaker
Did you always want to get an agent in the US?
00:16:02
Speaker
I think she lives in Canada, actually.
00:16:04
Speaker
But her agency, she works remotely from an agency that's based out of New Jersey.
00:16:08
Speaker
Gosh, you're really spanning the world, you two.
00:16:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:13
Speaker
I queried both, but the book I was querying with that found me Naomi was set in Midwest America.
00:16:20
Speaker
So it felt more like a book.
00:16:22
Speaker
UK agents will accept queries from wherever, but they kind of look at you as scans if it's like, obviously for the American market, like, why are you sending this to me?
00:16:30
Speaker
And there are a lot less of them.
00:16:32
Speaker
And they tend to have a lot of celebrities on their roster.
00:16:34
Speaker
Yes.
00:16:37
Speaker
So technically, you know, Victoria Cohen Mitchell's agent was open to queries, but realistically, he's not going to give me the time of day.
00:16:44
Speaker
So there was a bigger choice in the States and I wasn't fussed about where they lived.
00:16:48
Speaker
I see.
00:16:49
Speaker
Does it, I mean, does it in any way, because I've spoken to a few agents, a few international agents, some in the US and from what I've gathered, especially now that we've all kind of
00:17:01
Speaker
been trained in how to do video conferencing and stuff through lockdown and COVID and all this.
00:17:08
Speaker
The sort of drawbacks of having an agent internationally are very minimal.
00:17:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:15
Speaker
I think actually during COVID, Naomi was doing completely fine because they were already used to not going to lunch in New York and stuff like that.
00:17:23
Speaker
They were already used to being the agent who works remotely.
00:17:26
Speaker
So nothing changed for them.
00:17:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:28
Speaker
I mean, it's always something that I, when I first sort of started getting into publishing, thought, well, it would be very difficult in a strain on the relationship to have
00:17:38
Speaker
an agent who didn't live in the same country as you.
00:17:41
Speaker
But realistically, it doesn't make too much difference.
00:17:45
Speaker
I mean, it would be nice just to drop by and have a coffee with your agent, but it would happen so rarely.
Focus on Writing Over Marketing
00:17:51
Speaker
And it's not like you really gain much more than that.
00:17:53
Speaker
Have you ever met Naomi in person?
00:17:56
Speaker
No, I hope to at Glasgow Worldcon, but we both have kids and don't travel easily with childcare and stuff.
00:18:04
Speaker
So it's a bit awkward.
00:18:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:05
Speaker
So just the video calls now.
00:18:07
Speaker
Yeah, just video calls or emails or messenger.
00:18:11
Speaker
It just tends to be faster.
00:18:12
Speaker
Fair enough.
00:18:13
Speaker
Fair enough.
00:18:14
Speaker
To be honest, I think even if when people do have agents who live locally, let's say you live in London, you have an agent in London, you probably don't even see them that much anyway.
00:18:24
Speaker
You're more likely to be messaging and video calling.
00:18:27
Speaker
Yeah, I think...
00:18:28
Speaker
I think some people do see theirs, but I don't know how often, especially once you have a book that you're dealing with the publisher, you don't necessarily need to check in very often anymore.
00:18:38
Speaker
That's true.
00:18:39
Speaker
I mean, also every agent, author and editor and all these relationships are all very unique and different and no two are the same.
00:18:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:50
Speaker
Who knows with these things?
00:18:52
Speaker
Let's get back onto the Book Eaters.
00:18:55
Speaker
You've said a lot about your experience and how you were a little bit confused that everything was happening without that much of your input.
00:19:03
Speaker
Going into your next one, which will be published this year?
00:19:10
Speaker
2024 probably, because I've taken so long.
00:19:12
Speaker
Okay.
00:19:13
Speaker
Someone should tell Amazon.
00:19:14
Speaker
Untitled Book 2, 2024.
00:19:15
Speaker
Yes.
00:19:19
Speaker
How are you going to approach that launch and sort of everything that's going on with everything you learned from the book eaters?
00:19:26
Speaker
How are you going to kind of approach that differently?
00:19:29
Speaker
I think I worry a lot less.
00:19:31
Speaker
I know that...
00:19:33
Speaker
Because so much is out of your hands, you might as well not worry about it.
00:19:35
Speaker
The only thing that's ever worked for me career-wise is just working on the books.
00:19:40
Speaker
I can never get to conferences, workshops.
00:19:42
Speaker
I didn't have the networking opportunities.
00:19:44
Speaker
I don't have the platform.
00:19:46
Speaker
Since I can't do those things or haven't got those things, I just don't worry about them.
00:19:50
Speaker
For the book eaters, I didn't even do a book launch.
00:19:53
Speaker
I would probably skip that again for the next one.
00:19:56
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:19:57
Speaker
Not even like an online thing?
00:20:00
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:20:00
Speaker
Tor had some online events.
00:20:02
Speaker
In the UK, I didn't do anything in person, which I'm glad about because Waterstone stock issues meant that if I had a book launch, it would have been without any books and that would have just been an exercise in humiliation.
00:20:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:12
Speaker
A bit awkward.
00:20:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:15
Speaker
Okay.
00:20:16
Speaker
So you're just not going to worry as much.
00:20:17
Speaker
I mean, a great, much healthier sort of outlook on the whole thing.
00:20:22
Speaker
I hope so.
00:20:24
Speaker
I think mostly I look ahead towards the next contract because that's how you know things are going.
00:20:31
Speaker
And I'll know more about that in February when I start seeing royalty statements, have a better sense of how
Advice for Writers
00:20:35
Speaker
I'm selling.
00:20:35
Speaker
You get very little info in your own sales, which is weird.
00:20:39
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:20:40
Speaker
You kind of have to wait for the publisher to update you.
00:20:42
Speaker
Is that right?
00:20:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:44
Speaker
So some publishers have a sales portal.
00:20:46
Speaker
I know Orbit does.
00:20:47
Speaker
Hachette does.
00:20:48
Speaker
Macmillan doesn't.
00:20:51
Speaker
I'm not sure why other than they want you to just have less information.
00:20:55
Speaker
So my editor was sending updates in the early weeks, but that becomes more infrequent now.
00:21:01
Speaker
Okay.
00:21:02
Speaker
And you just otherwise have to kind of gauge it by Goodreads or kind of looking at your Amazon rankings.
00:21:06
Speaker
And it's shocking how little info you have sometimes actually.
00:21:11
Speaker
Yes.
00:21:12
Speaker
And those Amazon rankings are wild.
00:21:14
Speaker
The way that they change every day is difficult to keep up with.
00:21:18
Speaker
And I'm sure a lot of authors have fallen into the trap of just every day checking the ranking to see how they've shifted, whether they've moved up or down one or two places.
00:21:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:30
Speaker
I mean, there's Amazon all through central that you can log into, but it's so wildly inaccurate that it's not really helpful for anything.
00:21:38
Speaker
So, so that's how you're going to approach it.
00:21:39
Speaker
What advice now that you've kind of been through this, you've been on submission,
00:21:45
Speaker
different, at different stages, at different points, you kind of, you've got your, you finally got your first book published.
00:21:50
Speaker
What advice would you have for, would you give to writers looking to sort of give themselves the best possible chance of getting their books out into the world?
00:22:00
Speaker
Oh, I guess figure out what your strengths are and focus on them.
00:22:04
Speaker
And don't, don't waste energy on the things that you can't control.
00:22:08
Speaker
So people will say things like, I guess something people said a lot to me is you need to get out to these conferences, you need to network.
00:22:16
Speaker
That was never possible.
00:22:18
Speaker
I wasted energy worrying about it.
00:22:20
Speaker
It didn't matter.
00:22:22
Speaker
Focus on what you can do, what you can control.
00:22:24
Speaker
If you can't write fast, then don't worry about being a fast writer.
00:22:28
Speaker
things like that.
00:22:29
Speaker
I don't know if that makes sense, but.
00:22:30
Speaker
No, that makes a lot of sense.
00:22:32
Speaker
Figure out, you know, I guess it's figure out what's going to work for you because I'm sure going to conferences and networking is great for some people, but for someone like me, that's, that's like sort of, that would give me anxiety constantly having to like network and try and
00:22:48
Speaker
you know, push a sort of agenda onto different people who would hopefully at some point do something that might help for me.
00:22:54
Speaker
But some people really thrive in that kind of environment.
00:22:57
Speaker
So I think that's great advice and great life advice as well.
00:23:00
Speaker
Just figure out what works for you, where your strengths are and lean into your strengths.
00:23:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:05
Speaker
And I think if you can find an author whose career matches the kind of thing you're hoping to do, that could be helpful as well.
00:23:11
Speaker
So instead of like, I wouldn't look at Brandon Sanderson and say, right, that's going to be the career I hope to follow because I can't write a million books a year.
00:23:18
Speaker
Right.
00:23:18
Speaker
So only Brandon Sanderson can do that because he probably has like four arms that he keeps hidden under his coat for extra typing.
00:23:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:27
Speaker
So I would, I don't know, I guess my dream would be more like,
00:23:32
Speaker
Aaron Morganson or something, write two books every 20 years and they sell millions of copies.
00:23:37
Speaker
I mean, that's the dream.
00:23:38
Speaker
Somewhere in between, somewhere in between those two.
00:23:40
Speaker
A happy middle ground.
00:23:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:43
Speaker
Okay.
00:23:43
Speaker
No, that's, that's two great pieces of advice that I think focus on your strengths and also focus
00:23:49
Speaker
sort of try and find people who inspire you and see.
00:23:53
Speaker
Because I think if you want to look for different styles of authors and writers, there's always going to be one that's sort of somewhat close.
00:24:01
Speaker
There's so many authors out there that there's going to be one successful author who is somewhat close to the style with which you kind of approach the craft.
Desert Island Book Choice
00:24:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:09
Speaker
Well, I think that brings us to what is always the final question of each episode, which is, Sun Yi, if you were stranded on a desert island, but could take a single book with you, which book would you take?
00:24:25
Speaker
This answer always sounds pretentious because I've been asked it before, but I would take...
00:24:30
Speaker
The History of Western Philosophy by Bertrand Russell, because I do enjoy it and it's massive and it's nonfiction, but I find it really funny and inspiring reading it.
00:24:41
Speaker
There's more information I could ever remember, so I would be rereading a lot.
00:24:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:46
Speaker
I mean, it's plenty of food for thought.
00:24:49
Speaker
It would definitely keep you thinking on your time on the island.
00:24:52
Speaker
Amazing.
00:24:52
Speaker
Well, thank you so much, Sanyi, for coming on the show and sharing your experience quite candidly, which is really nice to hear about what it's been like writing and publishing for you in this industry.
00:25:07
Speaker
It's been really great chatting.
Conclusion and WriteMentor Offer
00:25:08
Speaker
Sanyi No worries.
00:25:09
Speaker
Thank you for having me on.
00:25:11
Speaker
And for anyone listening, if you want to keep up with what Sunye is doing, you can follow her on Instagram at Sunye Dean, on Twitter at Blind Nick Terrace, or on her website at www.sunyeadeen.com.
00:25:25
Speaker
To make sure you don't miss an episode of this podcast, follow us on Twitter at RightAndWrongUK, or on Instagram and TikTok at RightAndWrongPodcast.
00:25:33
Speaker
And...
00:25:33
Speaker
For more bookish writing chat, I have just started a brand new podcast, The Chosen Ones and Other Tropes, where I ask YA authors Naomi Gibson and Melissa Welliver all about the best and worst tropes in writing.
00:25:43
Speaker
So go check that out.
00:25:44
Speaker
Thanks again, Sun Yi.
00:25:45
Speaker
And thanks to everyone for listening.
00:25:47
Speaker
We'll catch you in the next episode.
00:25:52
Speaker
Thanks for hanging around to the end.
00:25:53
Speaker
Now, let me tell you about Write Mentors Hub.
00:25:56
Speaker
A subscription to Write Mentors Hub gives you access to an online community where children's writers at any stage of their writing and publishing journeys can interact, share advice, offer support, develop craft, and advance their careers.
00:26:06
Speaker
From craft talks to TikTok strategies, a shoulder to cry on while querying agents, or marketing advice for your soon-to-be-published debut, there's something for everyone.
00:26:14
Speaker
Every day is a writing day for hub members with an ever-growing range of initiatives like critique groups, workshops, pitching events, writing sprints, Q&As, and many, many more.
00:26:22
Speaker
The hub is constantly expanding, so go and check out the WriteMentor website for the full and up-to-date list of member-only benefits.
00:26:28
Speaker
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00:26:34
Speaker
That's W-R-I-T-E, the and symbol, W-R-O-N-G, at checkout for your first month free.
00:26:41
Speaker
So go join the Hub, Write Mentor's supportive community of storytellers, because writing can be lonely, but it doesn't need to be.