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Lakeshia Ekeigwe on Leadership as a Solemn Charge, Knowing Why People Hire You, and Not Tolerating Struggle Energy
53 Plays1 year ago
Lakeshia Ekeigwe (leaderthinking.com, linkedin.com/in/lakeshiaekeigwe), CEO and Founder of LeaderThinking Global LLC, joins host Dan Freehling (contempusleadership.com) to discuss modern leadership and the qualities and characteristics required for it. Lakeshia emphasizes the importance of emotional intelligence, self-awareness, and the responsibility of leaders to create a healthy workplace culture. She also highlights the need for leaders to share the vision with their teams and help them understand their value and contribution. Lakeshia also discusses the unique challenges that lawyers face in leadership, such as the focus on legal excellence rather than leadership excellence and the impact of malpractice fears on decision-making. Lakeisha shares insights into her own success as a coach and consultant, attributing it to her belief in her abilities, her understanding of her zone of genius, and her clarity on why people hire her. She also discusses the life-changing concepts of emotional intelligence and finding one's own zone of genius. Recommended Reading: "Coach Yourself to Success" by Talane Miedaner, “The Big Leap” by Gay Hendricks, and “Emotional Intelligence 2.0” by Jean Greaves and Travis Bradberry. Show notes at forwardlookingleadership.com.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome to Forward-Looking Leadership, a podcast for visionary executives building future-ready organizations. I'm your host, Dan Freeling. I'm the founder of the Coaching and Consulting Practice Contampus Leadership, developing the leaders and teams you want in charge through cutting-edge approaches and common sense solutions.
Meet Lakisha Ikigwe
00:00:18
Speaker
I'm honored to be joined today by Lakisha Ikigwe. Lakisha is the CEO and founder of Leader Thinking Global, LLC, where she coaches and consults with senior executive leaders in law and business, helping them create lives they love and lead businesses and teams that thrive.
00:00:34
Speaker
She brings over 14 years of experience working with clients from diverse and prestigious organizations such as Johnson & Johnson, Accenture, Verizon, Kaiser Permanente, the Association of Corporate Counsel, City of Los Angeles, County of Los Angeles, University of Texas, Virginia Tech, and many others.
00:00:51
Speaker
Lakeisha and I did our advanced coach training together. She's a powerful coach and has since become a trusted friend and thought partner for me on all things leadership, coaching, and business. Listeners, you're in for lots of wisdom and insight from someone who's worked with executives at the top of their game. Thanks for joining me on Forward-Looking Leadership, Lakeisha. Thanks for having me, Dan.
00:01:10
Speaker
Of course, thanks for taking
Modern Leadership Principles
00:01:11
Speaker
the time. First question for you, I noticed that we both emphasize what we call modern leadership in our practices. And that's something that's really important to me as I think about how I shape the work I do with leaders and with teams. In your view, what different qualities and characteristics are required for modern leadership than leadership in the past?
00:01:32
Speaker
You know, I think that modern leaders have to understand in a way that they never had to in times past, that they are responsible for the people and culture with the same weight as they are for the work that they actually lead and drive. And though I believe, you'll hear a lot of people say that culture starts at the top,
00:01:59
Speaker
I believe that each and every person in an organization creates the culture. So each individual's behaviors, their mindsets, their actions, they create the culture. But it is the role of the modern leader to ensure that the workplace culture is healthy.
00:02:19
Speaker
So in order to do that, they have to have high emotional intelligence. I believe that they have to be self-aware about the behaviors they themselves model and then also be ready to pivot when they need to make changes within themselves or changes within their team or organization.
00:02:42
Speaker
The modern leader is really responsible for mission, values, and vision alignment. And how we know we're in alignment are the behaviors and the culture. Work can get done in very toxic cultures. And for many years in leadership, that was OK, right? Burn and churn through people. Jess, it doesn't matter who gets injured in the process. Just get the work done. Get the numbers up.
00:03:12
Speaker
And that's no longer acceptable as I'm seeing in different organizations really around the world.
Generational Shifts in Leadership
00:03:19
Speaker
So, and then I think another really important aspect of the modern leader journey is that they understand that they have to share the vision with the people they lead. I think there was a time where sort of the greater,
00:03:39
Speaker
longer view vision, longer term vision of an organization was kept secretly at the top. There are some organizations where that is necessary because of what they do. But I think the modern leader has to understand that they do need to keep their people informed of the vision, helping them understand the values that drive the vision and then
00:04:06
Speaker
how each individual's effort supports that so that they can see where they fit in and where their value at is because studies demonstrate that people want to feel like they're contributing to something bigger than themselves.
Empathy vs. Organizational Needs
00:04:21
Speaker
And so then there's no room for sort of autocracy in that. A leader will have the final decision and decision-making authority, but getting people bought into the vision and then having their
00:04:36
Speaker
actions be values aligned as a team and as an organization makes everyone's job easier and happier.
Are Leadership Qualities Innate or Learned?
00:04:45
Speaker
So I believe it's emotional intelligence, making sure that people understand the vision and the values, where they fit in it, and that they understand that they really are responsible for the culture.
00:04:58
Speaker
That's so well said, and I agree with all of those points. I know you mentioned that that's not going to be accepted anymore to have that sort of old school command and control style of leadership. I'm wondering, in your opinion, what kind of led to this change? Like, why is this changing? I think that the generations, sort of Gen Xers, Gen Zs, where people saw themselves in organizations in prior generations,
Leadership Challenges in the Legal Field
00:05:26
Speaker
right, like lifetime employees,
00:05:28
Speaker
would be on a job and retire from a job. People had their identities somewhat defined by their title or the work that they did. I think successive generations just are not having that same experience. They don't believe the same things. They don't believe that a company will be loyal to them for 40 years.
00:05:56
Speaker
or 30 years or 20 years. And so how they view work is very different than prior generations viewed work. So I think that that's part of it. I think the self-definition of what it means to work is just different now. I also believe that as leaders have been, I think there was a, in earlier generations there was this
00:06:26
Speaker
Belief that leaders were somehow superhuman like different than everyone everyone else, you know They they were revered and you think about some of the great what we would consider some of the great leaders in History and maybe they did have stellar qualities and characteristics, but I think that You know with social media and and and general media
00:06:56
Speaker
reporting on individuals, behaviors, conduct, exposés, things like that. There's an understanding that these people are no different than anyone else. And I'm not going to put my faith and trust in them or the organization that they are a part of. I'm going to take my sort of destiny in my own hands, and I will decide how I work, when I work, who I work for.
00:07:26
Speaker
how long I work there. So I think that's kind of part of it. That's so interesting on both counts. And yeah, there's kind of like humanizing of the top leadership and taking it down from the pantheon. Yes. These people brought us through World War II or whatever, you know, whatever that was at that point. And it's like, okay, these are also just, you know, people like you and me and it's not something to be
00:07:52
Speaker
necessarily revered, but it's something where there needs to be a two-way street between organizations and employees. Exactly. That's exactly what I think is a part of it for sure. Yeah, thanks for sharing that. So you work with lots of really high-level executives in your practice. I'm wondering what you think sets the most impactful executives apart from the rest.
00:08:19
Speaker
I really think it is that a couple of things, right? These leaders see leadership as a sacred charge, right? I have this group of people, their livelihoods are in my control, if you will, in my hands. I want to develop these people. I want them to achieve their own
00:08:48
Speaker
personal development goals and professional development goals. So I think what sets really impactful executives apart from the rest is the way they view their privilege of leadership, the way they view the people they lead, that they, and I'll harken back to, embody high emotional intelligence,
00:09:13
Speaker
starting with themselves. They're highly self-aware. And then I think another really important thing, and you'll hear this a lot,
00:09:23
Speaker
or we all hear this a lot, is that they're empathetic. But one of the things that I try to make sure leaders understand is don't confuse empathy with tolerating bad behavior and feeling like you have to put up with a toxic employee or someone who is not aligned with the values and the vision of the organization.
00:09:52
Speaker
Tolerating that is not empathy, it's really lack of leadership. So really an understanding that you can do really hard things with great love and great care and balancing the needs of the organization and the team that you lead with empathy for individuals, but also understanding
00:10:20
Speaker
what true empathy in a workplace really is and not confusing it with something else.
00:10:27
Speaker
I was just having a conversation with somebody yesterday too when we were talking about how much of leadership is taught versus innate and I'm wondering where you stand on that. How much of these qualities that set executives apart do you think come from either how you're wired or how you're brought up or how much of this could be learned over time too? That's such an interesting
00:10:56
Speaker
question and really a philosophical, right? Philosophically intriguing question in like the grander scheme scheme of things. You know, I think it depends on what the leader
00:11:14
Speaker
role is specifically, let me, I want to use the right word, circumstantially, right? So, so really kind of who they are adaptively. So I think some aspects and elements of leadership are based on skillset, training, education, right? Like core knowledge. And so I think that is learned.
00:11:42
Speaker
And then I also think that care, compassion, empathy, being people-centric and holistic. I also believe that can be learned. I think there are people who do come by it naturally. I don't know that one is better than the other. I think each one has its own unique value set that it brings to it.
00:12:10
Speaker
whether you're naturally this way or you've learned how to be this way because of certain experiences that you've had. And I think it's a conversation, I think it's a question that really doesn't have a simple straight answer.
00:12:24
Speaker
I love that idea of not being sure which way is better if it comes natural or if you've learned it. It just reminds me of so many other things in life where sometimes even when someone might not be naturally gifted at something but they've learned it, they have sometimes even a deeper understanding of it because they've had to make that effort to learn it and they can teach it better to others too.
00:12:48
Speaker
Yeah, that's exactly right, I think. And I think I've seen both over my years of life and of working with leaders and coaching leaders. And I think the outcome of both can be really beautiful. And I don't know that it matters how they come by it. How they come by it. What a great answer. Thank you for going there with me on the philosophical question.
00:13:19
Speaker
So you also came up through law firms and you work with a lot of lawyers. What unique challenges do you see lawyers facing in leadership versus other professionals? Yeah, that's an interesting question. So I started working in law firms when I was 19 years old. I was a receptionist.
00:13:41
Speaker
in a global law firm, white in case, and, um, had never even been in a lawyer's office before I worked in that law firm. And I met the most incredible people. And I always say, um, if, if my business went bust and I had to work again, I would really want to be a receptionist in a law firm, right? You just meet the most incredible people and you have the most incredible conversations, not just
00:14:08
Speaker
clients and things like that that visit the firm, but I would have lawyers always standing around talking to me about different things. Their problems, their challenges, their ideas, their struggles. And I was very young. I didn't have a whole lot of life experience, but I loved listening to people and I always tried to have a kind word for people and I became a really trusted confidant.
00:14:38
Speaker
I ended up working in law from the time I was 19 until my mid forties. So over the course of about 25, 26 years in law firms, some of the unique challenges I saw that lawyers face in leadership versus other professionals. And you know, I've had a, like a really firsthand view of this. I would think that,
00:15:06
Speaker
One of the biggest impacts is that lawyers tend to be fact and evidence based thinkers. And so leadership can be very fluid and very, um, very unknown. And so when you think in fact and evidence and you have to deal with a lot of fluidity, it isn't a natural shift.
00:15:36
Speaker
in the way that you think and approach solution strategizing. So I think that's one thing. I also know that most lawyers are groomed to be excellent in the practice of law and not in the business of law. So what it takes to be a good leader and not just, you know, of the people aspect of it, when you have a business that is thriving financially, right? You can pay the bills, you can pay your, you can meet payroll,
00:16:05
Speaker
You can pay your vendors, you have a healthy financial firm, then you don't have the stresses and pressures of not being able to lead people effectively. Well, on the flip side of that, when your business is struggling financially, one of the things
00:16:25
Speaker
that you go to right away is fix that. What do I have to do to fix that? We've got to build more. We've got to work harder. So again, most lawyers are not groomed to be excellent in the business of law. They're groomed to be excellent in the practice of law. So a lot of like law firms oftentimes are struggling financially, not all, but many are. And so developing that leader tool,
00:16:53
Speaker
can be challenging. Now, I'm not talking about AM 100 firms that are making hundreds of millions of dollars and even billions of dollars, but smaller practice firms. Then another aspect I think about this is the professional development model in law is an apprentice framework. And it's an apprentice framework, again, for legal excellence, not leadership excellence.
00:17:22
Speaker
So for example, when a lawyer comes out of law school, now imagine they've gone through law school, they've graduated, they've taken at least one state bar, possibly a federal bar and sometimes more than one state bar, right? So they've gone through this process and yet when they go to practice law, they're considered a first year, right? Literally back down to the bottom.
00:17:50
Speaker
And so for every year in your practice, that's how you're identified. They're a first year, they're a second year, they're a third year, they're a fourth year. So by the time they make it to where leadership actually is at the partnership level, it's about a seven to 10 year journey. And you've been focused on legal excellence, not leadership excellence. And now as a partner, what do you have to do? You need to drive business and do business development
00:18:18
Speaker
So leadership until just, I'd say the last, I don't know, 10, 15 years, hasn't really been something that the legal profession has focused on, but there are a lot of great organizations now, Global Leaders in Law is one of them, the Association of Corporate Counsel, different organizations that are really teaching law firms about leadership because legal leadership is somewhat different than other.
00:18:48
Speaker
than other types of leadership. For one thing, other industries don't have malpractice fears and worries and woes, whereas lawyers do. So it's complex and different, but I think those are some of the unique challenges lawyers face in leadership versus other kinds of professionals.
00:19:11
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it sounds a lot like some other professions where people are so focused on the technical work that they're doing and becoming expert in that. And then all of a sudden they're asked to, okay, you're now senior enough to become a leader. You can switch and become a leader without any previous actual leadership experience or people leadership experience or business leadership experience.
00:19:35
Speaker
That's exactly right. It does a disservice to the individuals. There are some that have taken matters into their own hands and they hire leadership coaches. They take leadership classes. They really invest in their own leadership journey. I'm starting to see various firms understand the value of that, but I would certainly say it is not where it should be.
00:20:04
Speaker
within the industry. You mentioned the malpractice fears affecting leadership. I'd love if you can expand on that a little bit. How do you see that ongoing threat of malpractice, whatever that is, suits or claims impacting leadership? I think that the pursuit of excellence of who you are as a lawyer so that you get it right
00:20:32
Speaker
uh, is the prevailing sort of interest and goal. And so developing as a leader is, is where your, your interests lie. And, and so why do I want to be the most excellent leader I can be is because I want to get it right all the time so that my clients don't sue me and I experienced reputational harm and also
00:21:01
Speaker
reputational harm to my firm, right? So I think it's why I stated that is because I think the focus is on excellence, so much so because in part that threat is real and it exists. CB That kind of perfectionism and for a very good reason being at play there.
00:21:28
Speaker
Yeah, much less of the Silicon Valley kind of like move fast and break things that can be so common. It's you can't really do that in law and number of other professions too for that matter. They will shudder hearing that. Yes, right. It's the exact opposite, right? It's the exact opposite mindset. It's the exact opposite heart set even, right? It's yeah, the exact opposite.
00:21:53
Speaker
That's very interesting. It's something I think about a lot of clients in the social sector space, and they're working with vulnerable populations a lot of the time too. It's a very similar thing where you have to be much more careful than you would be at a generic business or something where it's just a consumer product or something. You have to take the standard precautions so that it's not harmful in and of itself, but it doesn't have nearly that degree of potential ramification there.
00:22:22
Speaker
Yeah. And, and, and actually I'll even take it a little bit further. It's not just the malpractice suit, right? Because there's no, there is malpractice insurance that every lawyer has, but it's also if the malpractice, depending on the kind of malpractice it is, the lawyer could be disbarred, right? Or suspended. So you've spent your whole, you know, eight years of your life, um, working towards this goal of being a lawyer.
00:22:51
Speaker
And then another seven to 10 trying to get to, you know, partner level, um, practice, uh, in your career and one mistake could take it all away.
Coaching for Success
00:23:06
Speaker
That's a lot of pressure. Definitely. And that, that context is so, so key to have when you're working with these folks and, um, yeah.
00:23:17
Speaker
Beyond the typical factors of you obviously work hard and you have a number of years of experience and all of that typical usual stuff, what would you attribute as the biggest contributors to your success as a coach and consultant?
00:23:36
Speaker
Oh, that's a that's a great question. You know, I always I always believed I could do this. I never ever doubted it. And I remember being a little girl, I gave a public speech when my I was in junior high school and the graduating class of the elementary school, I gave a speech welcoming them to our junior high school. And I loved
00:24:03
Speaker
speaking to people and teaching and sharing from a speaking perspective. And that was kind of the beginning. And then that 25 years that I was working in law, I learned so much about the struggles of lawyers. And when I learned about coaching as a modality, and I learned about it through reading a book called Coach Yourself to Success by a woman named Tulane Medaner.
00:24:32
Speaker
She was actually, I believe, the president of the ICF at one point. It changed my life. And when I read that, I thought, OK, I'm a coach. That's what I am. And now I'm going to find out the correct way to do this. So I always believed I could do it. I never doubted it because, in a way, I was already coaching people and just learned the right way to do it.
00:25:00
Speaker
And then I think I've always known my zone of genius without knowing I knew my zone of genius, but I've always known my zone of genius and I always operated effortlessly in it.
00:25:12
Speaker
And I never tried to learn, be, do anything that I had to struggle against to learn. I just wasn't interested. And so I think that has led to my success because I knew I was people oriented. I loved listening to people and creating a safe space for them to be able to share their innermost, you know, fears, thoughts, challenges,
00:25:42
Speaker
joys. And, um, and then the other, and I think this is really hugely important. I know why people hire me. Uh, I know why organizations hire me. I know why law firms hire me. I know why individuals hire me. And I'm always very clear on that. And so then I know who is an ideal client for me to work with.
00:26:11
Speaker
even if they sort of meet the criteria on paper, they may still not be an ideal client depending on how much, um, you know, of an energy drain they might be or, um, you know, we're values misaligned. Um, so knowing why people work with me, why I work with them, I think that's been hugely beneficial.
00:26:40
Speaker
This is so helpful, I think, to a lot of folks listening or likely either already coaches or considering that or even adding that on. So this is just really helpful to hear. If I could ask, why do people work with you? You really honed in on that. I'd love to hear how you envision that. So I've boiled it down to three things and in this order.
00:27:07
Speaker
I believe it's comfort, clarity, and confidence. The first thing is I engender trust and an understanding that I have no judgment around the reason why they've hired a coach or a consultant in the first place.
00:27:29
Speaker
One of the things I love about coaching is that it is present and future based, right? So it's ripe with opportunity and really the past doesn't even matter, right? We don't even have to, we don't have to, we really don't have to go backwards at all. Starting from right here. Say that again. Starting from right here, yeah. Starting from right here. So that comfort piece is there. So many times when people go to hire a coach, a consultant,
00:27:59
Speaker
They want to do all of this sort of assessing in a way. And not that that's not valuable and not that it isn't helpful. And a little bit of knowledge about the team, depending if it's an organization or something, is helpful. But I don't believe you have to do sort of that deep dive going backwards per se. Now that's not true in every instance, but per se, I really don't.
00:28:25
Speaker
So, um, so that's comforting to people, right? Um, and then the second thing is clarity. So many people on a deep inner level know what they want to do and know how they want to feel. And they actually even know who they are. And so many times they have muted all of that messaging about themselves.
00:28:55
Speaker
because they are afraid, you know, have a fear of judgment. Maybe it's self judgment. Maybe they are struggling with imposter syndrome and 70% of working adults do struggle male and female across the board with imposter syndrome. So helping them rise up who they are, what they want, how they want to feel,
00:29:23
Speaker
What is their vision for themselves either personally in their life or at work in their career, professionally, if they're a leader of a team or an organization for the organization, what are their values personally and how do they align with the organization's values and getting really very, very clear on those aspects of their being.
00:29:50
Speaker
is clarifying for them. So now they have clarity. And now once they have the comfort and the clarity, so they feel safe, they're clear, now their confidence level soars and they believe that they can create whatever they want within their organization, within their own life, within their team, within people that they have influence and impact over. So I know that that's why people hire me.
00:30:17
Speaker
Thanks so much for sharing that. I think getting to that understanding for ourselves, just for folks listening and wanting to kind of apply this is so key regardless of whether you're a coach or a consultant or even just an employee somewhere that knowing why people love working with you is such a key thing to understand because then you can
00:30:40
Speaker
I think it's the Dolly Parton expression, right? Like figure out who you are and then do that on purpose. You can start doing that on purpose and really, really getting that understanding at a deep level. It's so funny that you mentioned Dolly Parton. I have a training where I quote her all the time. And one of my favorite quotes ever is from her and she says, become a professional you.
00:31:09
Speaker
know what you can and cannot do, know what you will and will not do. And so my work with people really helps them become a professional them.
Future Focus: Public Speaking and Retreats
00:31:21
Speaker
Wow. That's powerful. And from someone who's done it so successfully. One of the things I really admire about you and that I really enjoy about our conversations is just how you treat your practice and you really just
00:31:36
Speaker
play big and think big. I think that's something that's really inspiring to me. So I'd love to hear what you're most excited about for the future of your own coaching and consulting practice. So I'm actually narrowing and I'm really excited about that. I've had my business now in my 15th year actually now. And one of the things that I'm super excited about is doing more speaking.
00:32:05
Speaker
I really love teaching people how a couple of topics in particular, but helping them understand what emotional intelligence is and how they can best embody it and embrace it and then operate from a place of high emotional intelligence. It's really life changing for people. And I love being able to be a conduit through whom that knowledge comes.
00:32:33
Speaker
I love helping people identify and embrace their zone of genius. Again, another life-changing concept and the gentleman who conceptualized that is a man by the name of Gay Hendricks. And he's a psychologist who believes we have four zones of being and that our zone of genius is our highest and best zone. So teaching that concept, and then I put my own spin on what that means to me,
00:33:03
Speaker
But empowering people with that is just so exciting to me. And then helping people understand that they can have the career of their dreams, really, without sacrificing their health or their happiness or their relationships and helping them
00:33:23
Speaker
find the tools and understand how to apply the tools to do that. I'm really excited about that. So in narrowing my business, I will be doing far more public speaking this year. And I'm really super excited about that. And then I have designed a workshop series for senior women in law. So women leaders in law, um, that are retreats.
00:33:49
Speaker
And so they will, for the most part, be seaside. And we will be talking about how to align your vision with your values, how to build, nurture, and leverage your network with intention, but most importantly, with integrity. Because a lot of people have anxiety around networking, right? And they feel like if, if I'm in relationship with you and then I ask you for business or
00:34:18
Speaker
present you with a business opportunity or a business ask, then it feels like I'm out of integrity and teaching them how to build and nurture and leverage with integrity all along. Then that feeling and fear goes away. Um, teaching women how to rain, be a rainmaker in their life and in their business, uh, gender, uh, I'm sorry, pay inequality.
00:34:43
Speaker
in legal is still a challenge, which is so shocking to me, but really helping women learn how to ask for their worth and their value is something that I'm super, super passionate about. So these retreats, I'm really excited about that. And then I will, you know, I have a couple of corporate clients that I'm still supporting and I will continue to support them.
00:35:10
Speaker
But I've scaled my business down in that way for 2024, and I'm really excited about it. And really just focusing on what you want to be doing here. And this all sounds so exciting and so valuable for people. So thanks for sharing some of these future plans with us. Thank you.
00:35:28
Speaker
I'd love to hear just the brief overview. I know these are in-depth topics that you can go on for years and years and years of study on. You mentioned emotional intelligence being a life-changing concept for people. I love if you can just expand on that a bit more of how you've seen that or how you see that as a life-changing concept for folks and where they can get a better understanding of that.
00:35:54
Speaker
So I'll answer your question backwards. So a great resource are the emotional intelligence books that were authored by Dr. Travis, I think his last name is Bradbury. Bradbury, yeah. And his books are really excellent on emotional intelligence, but a lot of people don't understand, like you'll hear this term, right? They made me so mad. No, they didn't make you mad.
00:36:22
Speaker
You made yourself mad, right? So people, when you understand that emotional intelligence is to basically, I kind of synthesize it down to these two simple sentences. I control my actions, let's say, and behaviors, and I control my reaction to the actions and behaviors of others.
00:36:52
Speaker
So I control myself and I control my reaction to others. So many times people feel like they have license to engage in bad behavior as a response to the negative bad behavior of others. And that's just not true, right? It is the opposite of emotional intelligence. And what happens is why that is life changing
00:37:20
Speaker
is because now, and this is in my training on emotional intelligence, when you're in high emotional intelligence, you observe but don't absorb. So someone could literally be attacking you, saying horrible things about you, just
00:37:43
Speaker
creating a bad environment or a bad experience. And instead of allowing yourself to dive into that and react to what they're bringing forward, you observe it instead. And it's like, wow, they must really be having a bad day.
00:38:04
Speaker
Things must not be going well for them because really you aren't in their behavior. You only get into their behavior when you allow yourself to be inserted into it. And so when you know that you control, you can control, you should control your response and your reaction to others, it's life changing.
00:38:30
Speaker
Right? Because now I'm like, wow, that has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with me. I don't own that. I don't own that energy. I don't own those words. I don't own that mindset or thinking. It literally has nothing to do with me. I see it. I observe it, but I'm not absorbing that in any way.
00:38:51
Speaker
That's, that's huge. I think that can, that can be kind of a mind blowing concept to people when you introduce that and whatever, whatever way you introduce it. And they're going through the lens of emotional intelligence here, but that, you don't just automatically have to be drawn into someone else's negative behavior and respond in kind. And you, you have that choice and that way to look at it as a learning opportunity and
00:39:17
Speaker
and really control your own reaction to that and say, what would best serve me here? What do I want to take away from this? What can I observe with this? That's enormous. Yeah, thank you. And I've had people literally write me and say, you don't understand how life changing that was. And I didn't invent emotional intelligence, right?
Encouraging Zone of Genius in Leadership
00:39:41
Speaker
When you give people practical ways to understand what it looks like to be embodying high emotional intelligence versus what low EI, low emotional intelligence looks like so that they can understand how they are being in that moment and then they can make a decision about how they want to be in any given moment
00:40:10
Speaker
That really is life-changing for everyone. And I do my best to practice that myself. And when I do it well, it's really fascinating. Really, because you can just become curious about, wow, what happened to you today? Or what happened in your life?
00:40:35
Speaker
Um, and then it also allows you to have empathy versus anger. I could, I could talk about this all day, but I'll stop there. It allows you to choose how you want to feel and who you want to be in a moment that, um, could really, um, you know, in badly. Yeah.
00:40:56
Speaker
And similarly on zone of genius. So you mentioned you have a unique spin on that concept too. I'd love to hear a little bit more on that if you don't mind. In our, and this is Gay Hendricks' thinking right now that I'm going to share, not my own. But one way that people can identify their zone of genius is that they're in a state of effortlessness. So they're in ease and flow.
00:41:24
Speaker
It is it when you're in your zone of genius at work, you never feel like you're working and it can be confusing to people because you know, we are taught things like you have to work hard or you know work should feel like struggle right just just in our concepts, right and
00:41:46
Speaker
that kind of grit mentality of just staying there and tough it out and put tons of effort into it. Exactly. And so I gave my zone of genius presentation for an organization one time, and I was having people do introspective thought on what I was sharing. And one man,
00:42:13
Speaker
who's a leader, raised his hand and he said, the way that I've been doing performance reviews will change from this point on. And he said, every performance review, and you probably know this yourself, has a needs improvement or area of opportunity or these are your strengths and this is a weak area. He's like, why are we testing people on their weak areas?
00:42:38
Speaker
Like why are we giving them needs improvement? If they are a 10 in three areas and in the fourth area, they're a two, why don't we just kill the two? And I was like, that is so fast. I hadn't really thought about that, but he's right, right? Why do we want anyone in struggle energy?
00:43:02
Speaker
And so I will say it might spin on it, but maybe it's just through my lens versus spin. Um, for me, no one should tolerate being in struggle energy about anything. And they should make a decision about, I want as much of my work life or work time to be in my zone of genius versus any struggle energy.
00:43:32
Speaker
So what do I need to absolutely get rid of completely and have someone else do delegate whatever? Um, what is maybe even in my zone of excellence, right? Cause there are these four zones in my zone of excellence, like I'm good at it. I can do it, but it doesn't feed and energize me, which is another aspect of the teaching, right? So it's effortless and energizing. Um, and so making a decision about how I want to feel every day,
00:44:02
Speaker
And this is what I teach based upon my zone of genius and individuals on their zone of genius. Um, what is it that I refuse to do any longer? What is it that I know puts me in struggle energy and how will I map up, map out a strategy or a plan to ensure that I'm not doing those things anymore and that I remain in my zone of genius?
00:44:29
Speaker
Yeah, I think the zone of excellence versus the zone of genius was what really got me on this concept too. I think that's a very confusing thing for some people, but you can be really great at something and make a good living at it and like it enough, but it's not your true zone of genius. It's not at that level. And that's actually counterintuitively the hardest part to overcome is
00:44:57
Speaker
those things that you're very good at and can make a good living with but are just not where your true genius lies.
00:45:06
Speaker
Exactly. And what I love about it is, again, and I think I stated this earlier, but I think it's just worth repeating, is Zone of Genius is really the great equalizer. So back to that question that you asked me about leaders that have the greatest impact on people, right? When you realize that
00:45:32
Speaker
Each and every individual that you're leading has a zone of genius just like you. You aren't better than they are in any way because you have a zone of genius, they have a zone of genius. And if you can be the person as a leader that helps them amplify that in the workplace,
00:45:56
Speaker
how much stronger of a team are you gonna create when you've got all of these individuals that are operating in their zone of genius and not in struggle, right? Not doing a task that they literally despise because it might've been part of the job description when they took the job, but now that you've gotten to understand and know who they are, you know that they could spend eight hours in an energy draining, energy sucking task
00:46:25
Speaker
three hours in their zone of genius and turn out something that could change everything. I think that's so well said and it's something I think about a lot in terms of the time management and when people start going down like a time management route with things. It's really not about time management.
00:46:46
Speaker
most of the time it's really energy management and what's draining you and what's giving you life. And we've all spent tons of time on tasks and projects that are just really enthusiastic about you're bringing a lot to and that feels like it flies by and then you can have the same number of hours on something that's draining you and it feels like that takes forever. And I think that's something that's a valuable concept for managers to pick up on is how are you making sure that people to the extent possible are in
00:47:15
Speaker
in their zone of genius or moving toward that and in tasks that are just so life-giving that the time issue becomes a non-question. I love so much that you said that too about the energy component managing to the energy versus the time. The concept that a person has to be here eight hours to accomplish what we say this work or the
00:47:45
Speaker
the compensation for your time has to look like this. We all know that some people can get their job done in three hours versus eight. And the quality is there, everything that is required is there and accomplished. And so would you give people back their time and their energy when you can?
00:48:11
Speaker
Yeah. And I think to the earlier point on modern leadership, I think that's a big thing I see with it too is where we're in this started off slowly, but this move away from this industrial mentality where you're kind of like a cog in the machine and you clock it and clock out. Exactly.
Trust in the Workplace
00:48:28
Speaker
this job can be done by anyone who holds the title for it. How are we positioning people to do work that they can uniquely do well and that's not necessarily time-bound in the way that you would have before? It's just something I think about a lot. Me too. It's funny. Maybe that's the coach's mindset in us. It's really focused on the human being.
00:48:55
Speaker
But what would that take? It would take organizations that trust people. I think that's right. And I'm wondering if we're getting to the point, I tend to think that we are, that we're getting to the point where certain organizations are seeing a competitive advantage in going in this direction and they're outpacing
00:49:16
Speaker
other organizations that are not willing to go in this direction. And I think the more that what we see as coaches and have seen for a long time as being right and being dignity giving to people and helping them maximize their potential is starting to align in certain circumstances and certain businesses, but more and more with what's the strong business case for something. And my hope, my optimistic case for moving forward is that we get more of that.
00:49:46
Speaker
it would be it would be great because you know how people
00:49:55
Speaker
are able to develop in other areas. And I always think about people with families and children, right? We as a society, I think, have devalued the role. There's a meme that goes around on Facebook that says that society expects women to, let's see, work like they don't have children and parent like they don't work.
00:50:20
Speaker
And I thought that was really profound because it really does take time to nurture and develop children. And if we as a society don't value people's time, understand that they've got this brilliance, this genius, talent, skill, education, all of it, where they can be of value.
00:50:44
Speaker
And it doesn't have to look like a traditional model, whereas, and then the time that they need in order to whatever be, be home when their kids come home from school, pick them up from school, do whatever it is that they want to do. And by the way, I said women, cause that's the meme.
00:51:00
Speaker
But this would be gender neutral, right? For anyone who has people in their lives, it may not be children, it may be parents, it may not be parents, it might be their pets. You're like, whatever it is, whatever brings them joy. But to allow them to be a holistically fulfilled individual, it doesn't mean that their business would have to suffer, right? If you trusted people enough to bring their brilliance and genius
00:51:29
Speaker
and probably exceed your expectations while the payback to them is time and energy, the world would definitely be a better place.
Resources for Personal Development
00:51:39
Speaker
Here's to that. Here's to that. So I know we've mentioned a lot of books and that kind of thing throughout our conversation. I'm wondering what's the leadership book or it doesn't have to necessarily be a book, but any other kind of resource in that space that you find yourself coming back to the most often.
00:51:59
Speaker
tend to like for leaders more personal development books than leadership books. And the reason why is that I believe no development happens in a vacuum. If you develop personally, you develop professionally. If you develop professionally, you develop personally.
00:52:23
Speaker
I think that there are a lot of like a lot of leadership books that I've come across and tell me if this is your experience to just are repeating a lot of catch phrases and mantras and, you know. Yeah, cereal, cereal filler, they call it. I didn't know I had a name. Thank you for enlightening me, Dan. Serial filler. I love that. I'm going to have to write that down.
00:52:50
Speaker
And so I think that when a leader has, I mean, I think there are some good ones out there. Don't get me wrong. But I think that when a leader is in their zone of genius and they tap into what is effortless and energizing for them, they're able to recognize that in other people. When they have the skill and the talent and the intellect
00:53:21
Speaker
to lead the leaders who lead the work or who do the work, I think helping them focus on who they want to be so that the work that they do is excellent, exceptional, genius. I think for my clients anyway, it's been more on the personal development side than the leadership side, to be honest.
00:53:51
Speaker
that makes so much sense and I totally agree on that. Some of these leadership books are so surface level and they just have a neat little system or something that they say is going to solve everything. I think you're so right on that. I guess on the personal development books, you mentioned some of those. The Gay Hendricks one is The Big Leap and I think he has a separate one on
00:54:16
Speaker
expounding on those out of genius. Do you have a recommendation for folks on like a personal development resource? You know, the books that I mentioned to lay me down or coach yourself to success, I think is it was a life changing book for me. I think it would be for others. I think that the emotional intelligence books I think are a must read for any leader.
00:54:42
Speaker
I highly, highly recommend those books. And again, this is probably, so those would be the ones that I would recommend off the top of my head. Now this is gonna be another thing that sounds probably a little cheesy in a way. Well, and let me back up. I love Harvard Business Review articles of which you are an esteemed contributor. Thank you.
00:55:11
Speaker
I love articles. I love things that can be read in without a huge time investment or time commitment personally. I think there are a lot of good articles on LinkedIn. There are trainings on LinkedIn. If you have LinkedIn Premium, they're learning portal. I can't think of what it's called right now. Yeah, LinkedIn Learning. LinkedIn Learning. Okay. Nice and easy. LinkedIn Learning.
00:55:41
Speaker
awesome, awesome, awesome trainings with world class leaders. I definitely think people should be taking advantage of that. So if you have a premium membership, those classes are free, I believe. I mean, the ones that I've taken are at no additional charge.
00:56:02
Speaker
I think you're right on that. Yeah. Yeah. So, so that is what I would recommend you could, and then you could search for leadership. You could search for empathy and leadership. You could search for emotional intelligence and leadership. You, you know, you could, um, sort of hone it down into the specific aspect of leadership that you're looking to learn and grow from. So I highly recommend LinkedIn learning. I highly recommend, you know, Harvard business review articles.
00:56:28
Speaker
articles on LinkedIn from just various people that contribute their thought leadership on various topics. And then I love just little books on kind of topics like, you know, self-love and topics on, you know, being versus doing and learning how to write your own story. One of the
00:56:57
Speaker
uh, in, in coach you in 2009, uh, when I started, uh, with the, uh, core essentials program and exercise again, I'm using the word life changing a lot, but I'm, I'm, I really mean this. Um, one of the exercises that we were given was to write our autobiography. And when people work with me, that is one of the assignments that I give them every client that works one on one with me.
00:57:26
Speaker
I have them write their autobiography. And I remember thinking, my autobiography, my life's not that interesting. I can't imagine what I'd even write. And that process was so life-changing for me to write my autobiography. I thought about things that I had not remembered and how they made me feel and what lessons I learned from them.
00:57:56
Speaker
why I taught some of the things that I taught. Like it was a missing piece to a puzzle in my life. And I also attribute reading kind of just these little, you know, little mini books that you'll see, you know, at Barnes and Noble or, you know, if you are at home goods or something like that, I'm always picking up little books like that. I picked up three the other day. One was on balance, one was on compassion, and the other one was on self-love.
00:58:23
Speaker
And so I think spending time, it may not sound lofty, but spending time thinking about topics like that are some of the best things you can do as a leader.
00:58:38
Speaker
I think that's a beautiful sentiment and a great place to leave folks to consider who they're being as a leader and how they can focus inward on their own personal improvement. So thank you. Thank you so much for joining me, Lakeisha. It really means a lot that you took the time. I'd love to hear where people can find out more about your work and get in touch if they'd like to. So my website is leaderthinking.com.
00:59:09
Speaker
leaderthinking1word.com and feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn. I love the platform, love connecting with people on the platform. I'd like to know what interests your listeners, what they're thinking, what interests them. So definitely connect on LinkedIn.
00:59:27
Speaker
Great. I would definitely encourage you all to take advantage of that offer. And I'll definitely put the links in the show notes at conceptusleadership.com. So, Lakeisha, thank you again. And listeners, thank you as always for joining us. If you got something out of the show, if you could share it with a colleague and leave a quick review, that would do a lot to help spread the word. And Lakeisha, thank you so much again. Thank you for having me, Dan.