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Stacey Fernandes on the Tech Skills Modern Execs Need, AI in Coaching, and Advice for Becoming a “SHE-T-O”
61 Plays1 year ago
Stacey Fernandes (owlhub.com, linkedin.com/in/staceyfernandes1/), a highly experienced Chief Technology Officer and advocate for diversity and inclusion in the tech sector, joins host Dan Freehling (contempusleadership.com) to discuss her human-first leadership approach, which prioritizes the well-being and growth of individuals within an organization. Stacey emphasizes the importance of creating a work culture that values personal growth, collaboration, and innovation. She highlights the need for a coaching culture to support diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts. Stacey shares her own experiences and offers advice for aspiring women technologists, including the importance of continuous learning, developing emotional intelligence, and finding a workplace culture that aligns with one's values. She also discusses the potential of AI in various industries, such as law enforcement, construction, healthcare, and organizational culture, while emphasizing the need for ethical considerations and inclusivity in AI development. Recommended reading: "People First Leadership" by Eduardo Braun, "Radical Candor" by Kim Scott, IAPP books on data privacy law for the EU and US, and “When Breath Becomes Air” by Paul Kalanithi. Show notes at forwardlookingleadership.com.
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Transcript
Introduction to Forward Looking Leadership
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to Forward Looking Leadership, a podcast for visionary executives building future ready organizations. I'm your host, Dan Freeling. I'm the founder of Contempos Leadership, a coaching practice that helps organizations develop their leadership pipeline through virtually unlimited coaching for their top rising talent.
Meet Stacy Fernandez: A Tech Veteran
00:00:18
Speaker
I'm honored to be joined today by Stacy Fernandez. Stacy has had an impressive 30-year technology career spanning multiple renowned companies. She was one of the earliest team members at Monster.com, where she revolutionized the way they utilize data to enhance their job search and match services.
00:00:34
Speaker
Since then, she has served as Chief Technology Officer at the Active Network, PlanHub, and currently OwlHub Inc., where she is dedicated to building AI-powered software solutions that allow for fostering an environment that values personal growth, collaboration, and innovation.
Embracing Human-First Leadership
00:00:49
Speaker
Stacey attributes her success over the years to her, then unconventional, human first leadership style, allowing for the creation of workplaces where employees thrive and exceed expectations. Stacey is also a passionate advocate for diversity and inclusion in the tech industry, actively mentoring aspiring female technologists to pursue their dreams and break barriers.
00:01:09
Speaker
I met Stacey at a lunch table at a recent conference and was struck by her contributions to the conversation. This wasn't someone with the trite answers you often hear when it comes to the big technology and workplace questions of our time, but instead a thoughtful and passionate executive with both serious tech expertise and deep leadership wisdom. Listeners, you're in for an insightful conversation. Stacey, thanks for joining me on Forward-Looking Leadership. First, how would you describe human first leadership and why is it so important to you?
00:01:37
Speaker
In software development, we talk a lot about mobile-first design, meaning that we design software around the assumption that our user base is going to interact with the environment that we're giving them via mobile device before anything else. So similarly, human-first, it's like mobile-first. And we think about putting people and our team members at the center of our decision making.
00:02:01
Speaker
creates an environment that, you know, values and supports the wellbeing and growth of individuals in the organization. So it includes, you know, prioritizing empathy, compassion, respect, and also to the, you know, the tough love, right? And making sure that we're asking those right hard questions at the right time. So, you know, I found that, you know, human first leadership kind of goes hand in hand with good coaching, right? It prioritizes the wellbeing and growth and development of individuals within an organization.
00:02:30
Speaker
The importance of understanding and meeting the needs of the employees and creating sort of a work coaching culture and creating an environment where individuals can really kind of, you know, thrive and reach their full potential will in turn result in companies prospering, right? So the result is more retention, a more skilled team, a culture of collaboration and innovation.
00:02:53
Speaker
accountability, ownership, you know, all the things that you need within an organization to, for it to be successful, right? And it does start with its people. So really kind of centralizing all of your decisions are around, you know, your teams and helping them prosper, which in turn results into those bigger bottom lines, those better environments and, you know, more success for the company.
Promoting DEI with Human-First Approach
00:03:17
Speaker
I also feel that, you know,
00:03:19
Speaker
In order to have a successful DEI program at New York, you have to have that solid human first coaching style culture to support your DEI efforts, right? And that takes a lot of work and commitment, executive leadership, you know, and equalization of leadership development for everyone.
00:03:41
Speaker
I just love that and the link to the organizational results, but those coming through the people and the DEI that you want to see an organization having to center people first. How did you come to this realization? I know you've had a long career in tech. How did you come to that realization of human first leadership being so crucial? Well, I mean, where I grew up in the tech space, I would listen as a young tech
00:04:11
Speaker
I would listen to my upper level management refer to us, you know, our teams as butts and seats, right? Or heads or hands on keyboards, right? Those were the kind of the terms that were wildly accepted, you know, back in the olden days where I started right back in the 90s. But when I came to leadership,
00:04:38
Speaker
I wanted to put martyrdom aside and not run a team between the lines of fear and blame, right? And not have so much turnover, right? It was a very unconventional way for me to run a team, to make a connection, help team members work toward their goals and where they wanted to go next.
00:05:01
Speaker
And that way they saw the task at hand as more of a stepping stone and a path towards their own personal success. And that resulted in a much more engaged associate, engaged team player creating those safe spaces. Some of the best ideas that I've seen come from those interns just coming into their profession or those support technologists. Some of the best revenue generating product ideas are coming from
00:05:30
Speaker
What we used to refer to, not me personally, but what I've heard refer to back in the 90s and the early 2000s is butts and seats, right?
Fostering Innovation and Growth
00:05:39
Speaker
These are people. So having experienced being the butt in the seat and growing my career through mentorship and good leadership, I found that I didn't have to run a team that way. It was more important for me to sit and
00:05:57
Speaker
advocate for my team members and as I help them grow, the company does better. We increase retention, better skill sets, better collaboration, more innovation. If it was just for me to make all the decisions and for me to have that idea, then the team isn't really all that important. And we know that's not true. So I never saw people flourish.
00:06:23
Speaker
Um, or teams do well with that kind of mentality. Um, and yet, you know, oddly enough, it was like the dominant method of management for the, for a good part of my early career. So, um, I never really felt connected to my workplace in the earlier days. I was just there for my paycheck and to go home and I wasn't really growing.
00:06:42
Speaker
So as I started to sort of change my approach, even acting as a coach with my peers and sharing my learnings with them, I started to see light bulbs turn on and people getting more engaged. And I realized that, you know, this is a better way. This is putting people before or putting people at the center of your decision making was the best way to be successful. I just love all of that and bringing in
00:07:10
Speaker
so many different ideas and so much innovation and driving organizational commitment. So these are all real serious things that executives are looking to do. And this human first approach to leadership sounds like a great way to go about doing that. What, what other shifts do you envision modern executives either having, have, um, needed to make in recent years or needing to make right now to stay up with the curve? Yeah, there's, um,
00:07:38
Speaker
You know, what I look back at when I became sort of like a VP versus, you know, 12 years ago versus, you know, a CTO just recently. And modern executives,
Executives and Diverse Skillsets
00:07:51
Speaker
we need.
00:07:52
Speaker
we need to do better, right? We need to enable a workspace that's innovative and inclusive and insightful, right? And we have to rethink how work gets done, right? So, you know, for example, you know, talking about the DEI for just a second, it's incredibly important that we're aware, especially in the technical tech industry, that the number of women in technical leadership has dropped from 35 to 28%, right? What are we as executives doing about that, right?
00:08:22
Speaker
Since the pandemic, this is the statistic that came out of Techopedia. We as leaders need to, we need to address that, right? We need more, we know that women in leadership result in bigger bottom lines, yet the percentage is dropping. So what are we doing as executives to change that? That is a relatively new concept, right? That's not something we talked about 12 years ago. Me as a SVP or as an early CTO, wasn't things we talked about.
00:08:52
Speaker
Today, we know that addressing these things result in bigger bottom lines, better sales, more passion, more retention, all the things that we're looking for. All of the goals that executives have always had, but we found these sort of ignored methodologies or ignored principles that are now coming to the table. So we are, executives are being held accountable for the cultures that they create
00:09:22
Speaker
And the examples that they set, and they should be, it's not okay, again, to run any organization between the lines of fear and blame, right? The other thing is, is that I've noticed for myself, even personally, we need more diverse skills, right? The lines of tech and business functions are so much more entwined than they were, say, a decade ago. So for example, like some of the best data scientists that I've known are CFOs.
00:09:48
Speaker
That's not what you typically think. You think of this CFO as the accounting guy, writing the bills, doing the budgets. But because technology has permeated itself throughout the entire vascular system of pretty much every organization out there, executives who need more tech skills and tech executives like myself have had to diversify into more well-rounded, product-minded, marketing-minded,
00:10:18
Speaker
Um, uh, professionals. So we've been expected, um, like me as a CTO, you're, you know, years ago, that was great. I could, I understood about servers and I could write code and I could execute a technical today. We have to liaison between the business, right? Because the digitization of what we sell, right? We have more digital products and more online offerings than ever. So just the mere existence of selling things that are digital require that.
00:10:49
Speaker
Tech leaders become more business minded and business leaders become more tech minded. So I've enjoyed the natural diversification of my skill sets through this change. But it's one that I've been very mindful of over the past few years. I find myself doing more product and marketing work in conjunction with the tech leadership that I've always had to do.
00:11:11
Speaker
That's really fascinating. So a lot of seeing both organizational culture and technology as integral to the executive role rather than these sort of separate areas that someone else will do or that, you know, is not the main part of my job as an executive. They're coming front and center. Exactly. It's not just to HR anymore. And it's not just to the accounting guy anymore, right? It's everybody's much more entwined and it's, I think, technology has brought a lot of that.
00:11:40
Speaker
For sure. And here's the thing. It's such a wonderful opportunity. I've enjoyed the natural diversification of my skills. As markets become more digitized, it can be more work and more learning. But what a great way to avoid pigeonholing yourself if you're open to it. So I found the past five years of my career to be incredibly exciting because of the diversification of what I've been taking part in. So I find it super exciting.
00:12:11
Speaker
What technology changes do you envision over the next five or
Future Tech Trends: AI and Connectivity
00:12:16
Speaker
10 years? And I know there's no magic ball that will provide these answers, but what do you see coming in the next five or 10 years? As a nerd, through and through,
00:12:28
Speaker
I read a lot about technology. Artificial intelligence is going to permeate itself throughout everything. We're going to see advancements in national language processing. We're going to computer more autonomous systems like self-driving cars. We're going to see more personalized assistance. I suspect too, in addition to that, that with AI trying to permeate itself throughout the entire
00:12:56
Speaker
offering of the world, basically, we're going to have to see more no code solutions around it, right? We're going to have to make it accessible. And that's going to require that technologists offer ways for people to get at it from a no code perspective. Really good thing is, you know, the little chat box on my phone is a good example of that. But in addition to AI, you know, we're going to see the number of connected devices continue to grow.
00:13:20
Speaker
You know, I'm starting to see even here in my hometown now I'm seeing you know, like more smart homes more smart cities My husband who's a builder people are asking for more technology to be built right into Their homes, right? We're gonna see I think we're gonna see more and more of that I find it interesting. I read the other day that 37% of the world's population is still not connected to the internet. That's like 3 billion people
00:13:49
Speaker
Right. They've still never used the internet. I find that astounding. Right. And so I have to imagine that we're going to see more 5G and more enhanced connectivity going across the world as we enter into the next 10, 15 years, or maybe even five.
00:14:07
Speaker
I've been watching, you know, kind of, um, you know, blockchain and cryptocurrencies. I'm interested to see, you know, you see, it's kind of like, it's good. It's not so good. It's good. It's not so good. It's, um, I think we're going to start to see more and more global currencies and more technology around that. Um, my 17 year old son keeps wearing this thing on his face. I think he does it to ignore me, but it really is virtual reality. Um,
00:14:32
Speaker
You know, I go back to, I think about, you know, as a mom watching that movie, Wally, right, from Disney. And everybody was just like sitting on their chairs with their things, with their masks, their VR systems connected to their faces. But I think we will see more of that. It'll be interesting. I think probably you'll mostly be in the gaming and entertainment, maybe educational.
00:14:58
Speaker
Right? I think VR and augmented reality probably has its place in education and tourism. And I think there's already parts of that. I remember working on a system years back for the active network where there was a VR experience that you could use to experience a ski resort and fail. So we'll probably see more of that. I would like to see less of it though in my house.
00:15:28
Speaker
That seems to make a lot of sense to stay away from the brave new world aspects of this, it onto the, you know, connecting all those people to the internet and unlocking all of that potential and the education. Yeah, please. Yes. And then like, you know, I think too, and this one, we can't ignore it, right? Energy and sustainability, right? It's everywhere. But you know, and so we all know like solar wind energy, you know, electric cars, everybody's all over that. Good friend of mine, he runs Blue Planet. He's, you know, basically putting EV
00:15:59
Speaker
stations across the entire country doing amazing work. But what I'm really interested in, I was just reading the other day about fusion technology, right? And if we can find a way to harness that into more of a micro delivery, it will change the world. I definitely think that in the next 50 years, we'll find a way to harness fusion
00:16:23
Speaker
fusion technology and to generate the zero emission energy sources and it has the potential to pretty much change the power of how we power everything, right? It would be life changing. So I'm hoping after reading that article that I read the other day that
00:16:38
Speaker
I'm alive to see it. So I think that's probably going to be the next big thing over the next five decades. That's really interesting. I've read a little bit on that. So the basic idea is that there would be some sort of a way to harness nuclear fusion at a household level that you could
00:16:59
Speaker
you could basically power without needing to have emissions without needing to have a lot of input and just really transform the way that we power everything. Right? Yeah, I mean, I think it's super, super exciting stuff. Again, I hope I see it in my lifetime. You know, and then we've got so many breakthroughs through, you know, technology, biotechnology and healthcare, you know, we're definitely going to be especially in the AI space as well. You'll see more of that.
00:17:28
Speaker
more automation. You know, I see Rockwell out there, you know, doing some amazing things there. So, I mean, there's so much on quantum computing again. You know, it's still very much in its early stages, but I fully expect, you know, not maybe not in the next five and next 1020, we're going to see advancements in quantum computing, especially in areas of cryptography, and maybe even the drug industry a little bit, I think, too.
00:17:57
Speaker
Can you expand a bit on that? What might be the opportunities from that? Yeah, so quantum computing and cryptography, to solve complex problems that are currently not feasible for our classical computing, I think that we'll be able to
00:18:22
Speaker
to increase the efficiency and the accuracy of solving much more complex problems. That makes total sense. It's able to just take on some of these things that have not been in the realm of our current technology.
00:18:37
Speaker
solving them in ways that we currently don't think that the technology can address, which is just really fascinating as all these advancements are. And at those higher volumes, for sure. But again, it's still early stage, but something I like to read about. There's still growing a lot in privacy, privacy and cybersecurity, especially with the onset of this AI revolution that we're going through.
00:19:05
Speaker
So we'll start to see more and more needs for cybersecurity, increasing privacy. With all new technology comes new problems and new legislation. It's one thing I've learned. Let's build something really amazing and then throw it out there and let it go haywire. And then let's put a bunch of legislation around it. So talking about job security, it's fantastic.
00:19:30
Speaker
And you're just so used to that, having seen these new emerging technologies come about and having been part of these new emerging technologies come about, that that's the sort of process and that's how it goes. And you're not as daunted by that as I think some people might be. Right, right. So speaking of AI, I know that's all the buzz lately and there's probably some overhype with that and there's probably some real benefit with it. What are the biggest opportunities you're seeing with the use of AI?
00:19:59
Speaker
Uh, the biggest opportunity. So, um, I would say AI is going to permeate itself everywhere, right? Everybody's trying to just go out to LinkedIn. That's all people are talking about is AI. Um, the reality is, is that, um, machine learning and AI has been around for a while. Um, I just think that with the introduction of, um, open AI, it's again becoming more accessible, people more aware of it, and they're starting to innovate around it. Um,
00:20:27
Speaker
I think I still think the biggest opportunities are probably in the services space, recommendation engines, retail, transportation, in the services space. Like, for example, a few years back, I worked with a couple of colleagues on doing some natural language processing around support calls and sales calls, right? So Gong, for example, is doing this, right? They're taking a sales call and then you're getting back a critique saying, hey,
00:20:53
Speaker
you know, maybe you should have said it this way instead of that way or, you know, let's grade your conversation from a sales perspective, right? So you basically teach something, you know, you teach a model, here's a great sales call, right? And then you kind of use that as a benchmark to weigh it against what actually happened in the real sales call, right? Things like that. So we're going to continue to see that.
00:21:17
Speaker
I think we'll see more in gaming and also in fraud detection and security. But some of the areas that I think people don't really think a lot about with AI that I tend to get a little excited about, that I tend to read about is in law enforcement. So like facial recognition has been around for a while. But I read about how we're starting to use it for
00:21:44
Speaker
crime prediction. I think there was a movie out there once about how AI technology, I think it was with Tom Cruise, AI technology could predict a crime before it happened. I remember that one, yep. Yeah. I'm starting to see this come to fruition in some of the technical articles that I've read about some of the things that they're doing with AI and law enforcement.
00:22:13
Speaker
also AI-based emergency dispatch, right? So a lot of people are kind of afraid of AI, but in this case, like I really see it as a way to improve human life and security, right? So I think that's a great opportunity. I don't know from a revenue perspective, but I think just from a cultural geopolitical perspective, it might be super interesting and helpful to the human race in general.
00:22:40
Speaker
Yeah, it's helpful having some of these science fiction examples way before the technology is coming out to think about what what could be some of the downsides to this and how can we guard against those two? Right. And then another place like my husband, like he's a builder in a GM and the construction industry as a whole really has been a bit behind the curve in technology until the last decade. Right. So now we're I'm seeing, you know, as a former CTO, a plan of even we started to build some of this stuff. But
00:23:10
Speaker
Just the work to create a bid or the work to measure a blueprint to determine how much lumber you need or how much copper wire you need from an electrical perspective. There is some companies out there that are using AI technology to help build efficiency and better accuracy around infrastructure building from commercial to residential to commercial residential like multifamilies.
00:23:36
Speaker
And we're seeing this, an explosion of use of AI and machine learning technology in the construction space. I've even seen it recently with even contracts. So construction contracts and all of the documents that you need to have in place state by state is dizzy, right? My husband, like here in Florida, is one of the most litigious states in the union. So with that comes a lot of legal paperwork, things that,
00:24:04
Speaker
a GM or an architect or a hammer-slinger may or may not be well versed in, right? So there are now AI solutions coming out that legal institutions are pushing out for you to be able to say, here's my contract. And the machine learning model will read the contract and call out areas of interest or potential issue for the contractor or for the customer. So I'm starting to see that. I think that's super exciting. And it definitely puts
00:24:34
Speaker
AI will put, and machine learning will put technology into the hands of people that may have not had the skill or the ability to be technical previously, right? So lots of no-code solutions. A few years back, a colleague of mine and I worked on a system called EagleView, which is owned by Vista Equity, and I believe JobNibis uses it as well in a partnership. But basically it was using
00:25:03
Speaker
pattern recognition to assess damage through drones, right? So damages on roofs, on drones or hurricane damage or things like that. So again, increasing the safety because having to go on top of a roof, there's a lot of liability there and roofing companies are paying wild amounts of money just because it's a high risk business. So a company like Eagle View comes along and they basically take
00:25:30
Speaker
circle disaster areas or roofs to generate bids using drones and do their measurements from those images. So that's super exciting. So much of this is – so many of the positive benefits of this seem like they're enabling even smaller businesses to do without some of these really onerous legal costs or insurance costs.
00:25:54
Speaker
things like that. So there's some huge opportunity there that I don't think people really think about when they think about tech in the abstract of like, what is the real world application to this? How can this actually make it better? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Right. So AI and its application outside of the SaaS space, right? There's so much going on, especially like, again, just, you know, coming out of a couple years of plan out, just
00:26:18
Speaker
you know, things that we were doing there. And then, I think, again, in the medical space, right, human life is going to be extended. Probably, we will probably start to see people living past 100 years, right, with some of the developments in the genetic testing to predict and prevent disease, right? You know, we've already extended our lifespan by, I don't know how many percent over the past 100 years, I think we're going to continue to see that. And it's going to be through the enablement of AI.
00:26:47
Speaker
through medical systems that doctors are using. I don't think you'll ever really get the human element out of it. I think that's super important. We talk a lot about that in the coaching space. Doctors are becoming more and more human-centric or focusing more on being that whole self in the examination room.
00:27:07
Speaker
But these technologies for AI to help find things that maybe a human can't find right away will extend human life. So that will be world changing for sure. That really is a world changing idea. That's really amazing to think about it. Because I mean, we've seen incremental extensions of life, which have been amazing, but that would be fascinating to think about even going beyond what we currently think of as a lifespan. Yeah. And then like, you know, here at ALHA,
00:27:35
Speaker
You know, the reason why I came here is because I believe that a good coaching framework and a coaching culture is imperative to women feeling safe in technology and in the workplace in general and all, you know, all members of diverse backgrounds. Right. So even, you know, the coaching business itself and that, you know, there was something about this in the ICF that we attended. I think this is how we met. Right. Was how can we use
00:28:04
Speaker
AI in the coaching space, right? How can we use AI and machine learning to drive our passion for creating human first cultures in the workplace and getting more diverse participation in professions that we haven't historically seen?
00:28:24
Speaker
And so this is sort of my passion here at Owlhub. So Owlhub is this amazing coaching framework. It's the only science respect style coaching methods. It's the only science research-based framework out there developed by David Morelli, who asked me to come work with him. And I'm in the process of building an AI-based application that's going to help
00:28:51
Speaker
permeate the respect coaching styles throughout an organization and making it easy for them, right? There's how many leaders out there and how many coaches? It's disparate, right? There's not enough coaches for the leaders that need to become good leaders and good coaches in order to foster positive cultures in the workplace. So how do you build the software to do that, right?
00:29:16
Speaker
So, you know, here at all of up in the coaching space, you know, we're building out an AI framework to help with that.
00:29:26
Speaker
It's amazing work that you're up to there. And I think it's such a refreshing perspective in some ways. There's this scarcity mindset that can come around coaching of, you know, there's only so many coaching clients out there, but there's another way to look at it, which is leaders really need coaching, especially as we're entering into this new world that we talked about before. And how can AI leverage that positive human first leadership and spread it into the organization like you're saying?
00:29:54
Speaker
Yeah, imagine, imagine if you're a new leader, right? I remember, you know, the first time I was promoted to a manager, okay? I maybe a day or two of training and they threw me on there and said, great, you know, you're managing people. Wouldn't it be great for me to be able to, to have a difficult situation with an employee, type it up and say, I'm having this problem with this employee. I need help, right?
00:30:20
Speaker
and not have to run to an HR department, get a meeting, whatever it might be, and have a virtual assistant, right, that understands coaching methods, in this case, the OWLHIP framework, and that can suggest and advise that new manager on how best to proceed, right? I think that's the only way that we can scale this, right?
00:30:47
Speaker
As humans, so while the human is still delivering the message, how does the human get the guidance that they need, right? Not everybody walks into leadership knowing everything. I certainly didn't. I don't think anyone does. And I don't think that we ever do, right? So how do we efficiently get help and how do we continue to push that culture forward, upward and downward throughout an organization? And there has to be an efficient way to do that.
00:31:14
Speaker
Yeah, there's so much of the more transactional kind of coaching, even outside of coaching as a unique discipline into that general kind of business advice or guidance. I think so much of that can be done through tech and then that actually frees up the best coaches to do that.
00:31:35
Speaker
really touchy transformational work that is needed to to really change leaders and make them better. But it's not necessarily the sort of small ball, you know, the small guidance that would be really helpful for a new manager to have or something like that. And it's I think it's something that can work in tandem and work hand in hand with great coaching. Right. I mean, like, sometimes it's just a matter of asking the right question the right way. Right. You know, instead of saying, you know, why are you late to work?
00:32:06
Speaker
We may want to say, how can I help you get to work on time? Very different impact. Yeah. I'm really excited to follow along and see how this progresses and see what you're able to do with this because it's a super exciting space and something I'm personally very interested in.
00:32:22
Speaker
Yeah, I have such a passion for this. Being able to bring technology to addressing some of the culture problems that we have, especially in the tech space. And it's another spaces, too. It's just this is my experience. I think having a synergy between the two, for me, has been seriously exciting. And I have such a passion for it. I can't stop working at it, to be honest.
00:32:50
Speaker
It's really showing through and I think that when we first
Scaling Leadership Training with AI
00:32:54
Speaker
met, I was really hearing that and it's something that's, again, just refreshing to hear and to hear that somebody so well-versed in tech is thinking like this is amazing.
00:33:09
Speaker
All of these opportunities for bringing AI and tech into the people space, into the culture space, into the coaching space, what challenges do you anticipate in doing this that you'll have to overcome? Yeah. So as we mentioned earlier, at any time you bring in a new technology, we've got to build a bunch of legislation around it. The regulation's coming. That is absolutely one different note.
00:33:33
Speaker
And there'll be there'll be a lot, right? So with the introduction of CCPA, GDPR, privacy, all the stuff that, you know, all our CTOs have to be well trained in to protect data. AI kind of promotes a very interesting problem, doesn't it?
00:33:50
Speaker
you know, a couple of things, right? First of all, the ethical consideration, right? These systems have to be designed and implemented with ethical considerations in mind, make sure that we don't have bias, make sure that there's privacy, protections, transparency, accountability, you know, all of the things, right? So we have to make sure that any automated response is following all of those rules, right? We can't have, I can't ask chat TPT for somebody's social security number, right? You can't do it, right? It may be out there on the web somewhere, but cannot do it, right?
00:34:20
Speaker
So we have to make sure that, you know, privacy and security is, and bias is eliminated from any solution. The other, I think the other area too that I'm seeing sort of, and I think we did talk about this even at the ICF conference is intellectual property, right? So like chat GPT, for example,
00:34:45
Speaker
It's just an index NLP engine for like the entire internet. I mean, that's literally what it is, right? GPT is trained on a large dataset of human generated tests, right? So, so AI didn't create the internet, humans did. And now this AI engine has everything that humans have done on the internet. So it's possible that the text that it generates is going to contain elements that are similar or identical to existing works. It's possible.
00:35:15
Speaker
Right. So, you know, the way that chat TPT is handling this is that it basically says that we don't own anything. And, you know, it's your copyright. It's not ours. But I think that we're going to start to see more and more in this area of protecting IP and how to do it and how to do it. Right. And I think there probably will be guardrails for and rules put in place for technologists to adhere to.
00:35:40
Speaker
So I definitely see part of that. But then, you know, from a cultural perspective, right? A lot of people say, oh, you know, AI is going to put me out of a job, right? So how do we integrate AI into the people space that focuses on augmenting human capability as opposed to just like replacing them, right? How can we make people better at their jobs through AI as opposed to how can AI
00:36:10
Speaker
replace people, right? So I think there's, especially in more of the service-based jobs, right? You know, but I think back, you know, like my dad's like, you know, this village Greek guy, right? He owns a restaurant, okay? And when I was in college, I used to waitress there to make money, gas money, whatever, I made books, you name it. And one of the things that struck me was,
00:36:38
Speaker
I had these customers that would come in and they would ask for my table every time. I want to sit at Stacy's table and they came in to see me. I created an enjoyable experience for their dinner, right? They were happy to see me. They knew they were going to get good service. There was some fun banter. You can't replace that with AI.
00:36:59
Speaker
So I think that as people have some fear about a robot replacing their job or AI replacing, that human element is still going to be there. And we as humans still desire and want that. And we always remember that good human interaction first. I'm sure that 10 years down the line after this couple came in, they probably didn't remember what they ordered from me, but they probably remembered me being their funny, fun waitress at the time.
00:37:29
Speaker
So I think there's some fear there. I think people are gonna have to kind of get to that understanding that that human interaction, that element of service is still something that we as people seek out in addition to efficiency.
00:37:43
Speaker
That seems spot on from what I've seen in how AI can be best employed. It is really amazing that it can take on a bunch of these efficiency challenges and it can take on some of these complicated computing challenges and some of these even complexity challenges of how do we approach
00:38:03
Speaker
this in a way that has not been done before, has not even been thought of before. But yeah, keeping the people front and center I think is going to be key. And yeah, exactly as you said, how can AI enable people to do more of that human touch, to do more of the people centered approaches rather than just turning everything into a sort of robot future? Exactly. Exactly. You know, I think there's been too much science fiction. But yeah,
00:38:33
Speaker
And I think, too, as a person that designs technical solutions for people to use accessibility and inclusivity, I think it's going to be probably really important. We need to make sure that AI technologies are accessible and inclusive for all individuals, regardless of what their abilities are. So I think we're going to see more
00:39:02
Speaker
focus on those who have limited access to technology, those with disabilities, things like that. So I think that's probably something else that needs to be solved.
00:39:11
Speaker
This is something again that I just really admire about your approach and your perspective for this is you're putting this front and center and how do we make sure this is inclusive? And even more than that, how do we make sure that it's something that can be used to build cultures and organizations that are inclusive and just the opportunities there are enormous? Right, right.
Keys to Career Success
00:39:35
Speaker
So speaking of inclusivity, I know you often get asked what it takes to become a woman chief technology officer from budding technologists. How do you generally answer that? I get this question quite a bit, especially I've taken time to make sure that I'm pulling more women
00:40:05
Speaker
out of their recent graduates or senior year of college pulling them into internships. I do have a small consulting company and right now working with, you know, a lot of local colleges to help inspire more women in tech and then offer them internships even just for a simple project, right? Just to get them exposed to it.
00:40:31
Speaker
But so I get that question a lot from especially that group. And the first thing that I tell them is, don't think about your gender. Think about your skill. Focus on your skills above all else and take every opportunity to learn. When you see a free course, take it. There are so many more ways to learn these days. I remember when I had to go get my Oracle certification, it was like this $3,000 thing. I had to drive to Oracle and Berlin to Massachusetts.
00:41:00
Speaker
And I just sit there for five days straight and have my brain lobotomized right in the classroom. Today you've got Udemy, you've got Tekka, you've got so many ways to learn. Don't ignore those, right? If there's something you want to know, chances are you can take an eight hour class and get a good overview and get enough information to go off and try it yourself. So dedicate your life to learning your craft. That is the most important thing, right?
00:41:27
Speaker
When they say, well, what classes should I take? I'm like, a database design class, you must learn agile, and you must lose your fear of speaking in public. Those are serious things that every, to be an executive, you have to understand data, you have to understand agile methodology as a CTO, and you must be able to speak to people clearly. It's a must. In addition to that, a good mentor or coach, another woman is always great.
00:41:55
Speaker
take a coaching class, right? Again, you know, taking a lot of coaching and leadership classes as you're growing into leadership, learn to educate yourself on the emotional intelligence. Again, I haven't seen a framework better than Owlhub, which is why I'm working here, but it's a must.
00:42:14
Speaker
Um, also privacy and security, the protection of data that is paramount to the success. And then most important, especially for women and members of diversity is to accept the role that has the culture that you're seeking. Don't just go for the paycheck. The paycheck will come with your skill and your accomplishments, but you must be able to walk into the door and having opportunity in front of you. Okay.
00:42:39
Speaker
Um, if you, if you walk in and don't be afraid to walk away from a culture that doesn't give you what it, what it needs. And I had to learn that the hard way. I've walked away from positions and taken pay cuts because I knew that the culture just wasn't right for me, that it wasn't open to the idea of a woman CTO. I've been there. Um, I remember somebody saying to me, Oh, you're a CTO. You don't look like a CTO. What does that mean?
00:43:08
Speaker
What does that mean? My answer was simply thank you. That meant that I was different, that I was memorable, that maybe I had something to offer. So I tell them that, I tell any young woman or any member, it could be a woman, it could be anyone from any background. It's important to remember that as a woman in tech, that you have an opportunity to offer perspective that's unique. And that's in addition to the gender norm stereotype that we've gotten to know in our culture in tech.
00:43:38
Speaker
And that's a positive thing, right? If we were all the same, it wouldn't be gross. So don't be fearful to sit at the table and offer the knowledge that you've got and seek it from others, right? So also asking good questions, prepare for everything. So just the good study habits that we learned, the reason why we all go to school, right? Remember those things. And then work toward a passion and just not a paycheck. And if you employ that,
00:44:06
Speaker
and always follow through your deliverables, it's gonna result in just a natural awesomeness because we're always better at doing something we love, right? So forget your gender, be good at your craft, and don't be afraid to have a different perspective. And if that's not welcome in the culture that you're in, then go find one that is, right? It's important.
00:44:32
Speaker
because you're not going to grow in a stifling culture where diversity is not being embraced. And again, going back, executives have a responsibility, an absolute 100% responsibility to foster a culture of inclusion.
00:44:49
Speaker
such wonderful advice. And it seems like seeking that learning and mastery is so critical to this and putting yourself in the positions where you have a chance to do that. So what books or other resources do you find yourself returning to the most often that help you as a leader?
00:45:11
Speaker
Oh, God. Well, you know, this is an older publication, but it's still my favorite is People First Leadership by Eduardo Braun. It's something that I literally keep on my desk. It's a book like this guy just went out and like did like thousands of hours of conversation with like these world class leaders. Right. And through all of that research, he found like five key roles that leaders use to inspire people to strive for greatness.
00:45:37
Speaker
and turn change into the world for good. Now this thing, like the thing that's interesting about that book is that that was published in 2016, right? So the latest edition. So it's like, it's not even like a new idea, but it just doesn't feel like we've been embracing it until recently. And I wonder, I tend to think like, okay, you know, so I remember like, you know, I had a CEO one time tell me like, you're too much of a people pleaser.
00:46:06
Speaker
And I was like, well, actually I think that's a good thing, right? And being a people pleaser doesn't mean I'm nice. It means that I'm focused on the development of others. And I understand that growing my people and asking them the right questions at the right time and challenging them at the right time and consoling them at the right time and showing compassion when it's necessary in order for them to build strength is super important, right?
00:46:33
Speaker
So People First Leadership by Eduardo Braun really kind of, he was one of the first, there's so many publications out there now, but this one I really like and I think it's super nuts and bolts grassroots. And you're hearing directly from, you know, world-class leaders of some of the large organizations out there. So I love People First Leadership. My other one, I had a problem in the beginning with difficult conversations.
00:46:59
Speaker
I often tried to avoid conflict. It's something that I had to learn. And so I loved Radical Candor by Scott. You know, she did a great job of how to communicate the good and the not so good and how to do it well. So this read really helped me out with that. So that's one that I keep.
00:47:19
Speaker
I hear that one recommended a lot and particularly by the kind of people like it sounds like you are where you're so people centered, but sometimes that can come with a bit of an aversion to conflict and a resource like that can really help. And how do you approach this in a productive way that actually works out for the benefit of everyone involved? Right, exactly. Yeah. So that was, you know, I had a really, I had a hard time with that in my early career.
00:47:47
Speaker
And then my data privacy law book that one I can't I have to have that here with me all the time. Everything is about data and everything is about protecting data. So, unfortunately, this is a book that I go to constantly and every time there's a new edition. I.
00:48:07
Speaker
I buy it. So the IAPP book on data privacy for the EU as well as the United States for your SIP certification is a must have for any technologist. I don't care who you are. If you're in tech, you're in data and you must know how to protect it. From a more personal side or more like, you know, self-improvement, you know, one of my favorite books is When Breath Becomes Air.
00:48:37
Speaker
I think, you know, this guy's a brain surgeon. He, at the age of, you know, 35 or 36, whatever it was, you know, he developed a, it's a story about his life and he developed terminal lung cancer and wrote a book while he was going through it. But if that book is not about dying, it's about living. And, you know, one of the quotes from that, and I actually kind of have this printed
00:49:02
Speaker
is human knowledge is never contained in one person. It grows from the relationships we create between each other and the world and is still never complete, right? So isn't that really human first leadership at its nucleus, right? Isn't that what we're talking about?
00:49:18
Speaker
We're talking about how we bring connection into the workplace and become a better leader. And I think this quote says it beautifully, right? We don't know everything and it's not contained in one human. It grows from the relationships that we create between each other and the world. And it's never complete, right? So that quote in itself, I think epitomizes the book very well, at least for me it did, you know, and it keeps me humble. So it's something, it's a read that I think every leader should have in their library.
00:49:48
Speaker
That's beautiful. And I think especially as we've been discussing when leadership is transcending the old management frameworks and growing something bigger and more about people and more about broader culture that a book like that with that kind of a very serious life and death perspective can really open that up. Yeah, I think so. There was a lot of buzz around
00:50:15
Speaker
Steven Jobs, you know what he said, you know from his death but kind of similar but this one, you know, Paul, Paul Kalanithi he, he examines it in a more intellectual way and a way that we can kind of apply it, I guess.
00:50:31
Speaker
a little bit more than what Steve Jobs did, which felt like, you know, just more of like, you know, a letter about me. This book was really not just about him. It was about, you know, examining us as humans and our place in the professional world and how it shapes us. And so I just, I think, and again, it's a quick read. It's not a very good book. Not a very long book, rather. I think it's something that everybody should have in their library. Yeah, thanks for sharing that.
00:50:59
Speaker
What people, publications, podcasts, anything else like that do you keep up with so you can stay ahead of the curve?
Stacy's Recommended Resources
00:51:08
Speaker
Yeah. So lately, Dr. David Morelli of Owlhub, his podcast and his blogs, he just recently put out some amazing articles and an amazing article in Choice magazine. But again, having been trained as a respect coach and gone through their respect coaching styles,
00:51:26
Speaker
It's really the only framework that's provided me with actual methods that I can actually apply to all levels of an organization and be able to measure it, right? There's some amazing case studies coming out of his work. So while I'm building a system, I do subscribe to his publications and his podcasts and I read them often. For me, going through his program was, it really did rewire me and it kind of affirms sort of
00:51:52
Speaker
What I always felt the right way to lead was, but I didn't really have a way for somebody, you know, in the early days, really have a way to kind of, you know, articulate it as much as he's done. So I definitely recommend that one. I also love to work in bootstraps and smaller startups. I've worked in the big corporations. I love to work in the smaller organizations because there's just such a variety of tasks at hand that I can, that I can dig into. I like to do things and stay busy.
00:52:21
Speaker
So I'm super, I find myself going to the startup hustle blog quite a bit. There's all kinds of tips and tricks and things that people in bootstraps and startups are doing that I find fascinating, you know, with just amazing ideas. And then I wouldn't be a CTO if I didn't like open up TechCrunch every single day, wire.com and the gardener magic quadrant must do those three on the steeple. So I tend to hit those almost on a daily basis.
00:52:51
Speaker
And you're seeing the integration of, um, what do you, what do you think is important in bringing to this new modern executive role of that, you know, coaching best practices and the latest research. And then, um, also just, you know, the best practices from businesses and then what's, what's coming out in the startup space. And I think that's a, that's a cool example of all these different areas that people can think of as separate, but they're really critical to a well-rounded technologist and a well-rounded executive. I agree.
00:53:21
Speaker
So Stacy, thank you so much again for joining us. Where can listeners learn more about what you're up to, what OwlHub is up to, and keep in touch? Yeah, so OwlHub.com is the best, right? We're going to be putting out, similar to the ICF, we're going to be putting out to find your top coaching style so you can go out there and kind of learn about the framework and find out where your top coaching style is, which is super exciting. I'll be putting that up on the homepage over the next week.
00:53:49
Speaker
You can find us at ICF Insurance Conferences, just how we met. We're kind of all over. You can follow us on LinkedIn. And again, Choice Magazine, which is a coaching magazine, David put out sort of the science of coaching, right? And the Respect Style Coaching Revolution that he has started. While his work is 20 years in the making, Awah really is a young company really making big changes in the leadership
00:54:19
Speaker
development and coaching space. And, um, again, um, having gone through so many of them, like disc and, you know, um, Hogan and, you know, I'm a great, I know about my personality. I know about what kind of leader I am, but what am I bringing to my coaches? Right. And that's really the difference with our hub is your coaching style. So, um, co I will have dot com is the best place and, um, and LinkedIn for sure.
00:54:43
Speaker
Yes, I definitely encourage coaches but all executives in general to check that out. We'll definitely put the links in the show notes. So Stacy, thank you so much again. I've really learned a lot in this and I think people will find a lot of insight in our conversation. And listeners, thank you for joining us. If you got something out of the show, if you could please share it with a colleague, leave a quick review on the podcast app you're using. It'll help to spread the word so others can find us. And Stacy, thank you so much again. The pleasure was mine. Thank you so much, Dan.