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#17 Better Connected: How to get the integrated transport strategy moving
87 Plays1 month ago
The UK Government’s long-awaited integrated transport strategy, Better Connected, sets out an ambitious vision for a more joined-up, accessible and user-focused transport system. But does the strategy go far enough to deliver the transformation needed across the UK’s transport networks and places? And how do we get it moving?
In this episode of Steer’s podcast, Director Nicola Kane is joined by colleagues Steve Hunter, Rubi Sarang and Dom Smith to explore how the strategy could translate into practical delivery across rail, bus, active travel and local transport planning.
The discussion examines whether Better Connected provides the policy framework, funding direction and cross-sector alignment needed to genuinely integrate transport and development. Topics include transit-oriented development around rail stations, the role of vision-led planning within the updated National Planning Policy Framework, and how place-based business cases could support more sustainable growth and investment decisions.
The episode also asks whether the strategy strikes the right balance between national direction and local flexibility. While Better Connected places strong emphasis on partnership working, devolution and integrated planning, the panel explores whether local authorities and transport agencies currently have the capacity, capability and funding to deliver against such a wide-ranging agenda.
Other key themes explored include:
- Whether the strategy goes far enough on reducing car dependency and decarbonising local journeys
- How effectively Better Connected addresses affordability, accessibility and social inclusion
- The extent to which user insight is truly embedded within rail and bus reform
- Whether reforms to bus and rail governance will create more seamless end-to-end journeys
- How transport investment appraisal is evolving towards wider place-based outcomes
- The growing role of data, innovation and cross-modal planning in creating integrated networks
- The importance of healthier communities, active travel and safer public spaces within transport policy
Drawing on examples from across the UK, the conversation provides a practical and solution-focused assessment of what Better Connected means for transport authorities, operators, planners and policymakers tasked with turning strategy into reality.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to 'Better Connected' Podcast
00:00:08
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Voices of the Industry, podcast series bringing you leading industry voices who challenge thinking across transportation, infrastructure and cities.
00:00:27
Speaker
Hello everyone, welcome to Better Connected, how to go from strategy to reality. This is a STEER podcast where we're talking about the new national transport strategy, Better Connected.
00:00:37
Speaker
We've been waiting for some time for this document, over 18 months in development, and it's been nearly 30 years since we had a national transport strategy of this scale and scope. In fact, when I was doing my master's degree in 1998, which is quite frightening.
00:00:53
Speaker
So we're very excited to be talking about the strategy, talking about what we like about it, talking about maybe what we expected to see and maybe isn't in there and what we think the implications are for our clients over the coming years. So super excited to get into that. My name is Nicola Cain. I'm a director at Steer. in our Manchester office.
00:01:11
Speaker
And I'm joined today by a number of expert colleagues from across steer. So we have Dom Smith, who's our national active travel lead. We have Ruby Sarang from our rail team, who's going to bring some insights from the world of rail and Steve Hunter. He'll be talking about the strategy from the perspective of bus rail and also appraisal.
Structure and Engagement of New Transport Strategy
00:01:30
Speaker
So I'm going to dive straight in. I think we were all kind of very intrigued to see how the document will be structured. And if you have a look at the document, and you'll see it's underpinned by three big principles. So it talks about people, place and partnership, which I think is great in terms of setting the strategy in that broader context. And then it's structured around eight key priorities with a really strong focus on how we can deliver a more integrated, accessible and safe transport network.
00:01:59
Speaker
And I think you can really see the level of engagement that's gone into it and some of maybe some of the different voices that have influenced the strategy. And it certainly has a very strong passenger user focus within it that comes out front and centre in the whole strategy. I think it must have been a very tricky strategy to write because it's trying to talk to lots of different audiences. It's trying to talk to people and communities and how transport shapes their lives. It's trying to help us as transport professionals do our jobs more effectively so it has a more technical audience. And then all those operators and and local authority colleagues and national agencies who are going to have to put this strategy into practice. so I think they had a big job on their hands too to produce a strategy and we're going to talk through whether we think they've done a good job in producing it and how we think it's going to shape the work that we do as as transport professionals.
00:02:47
Speaker
So I'm going to ask each of my colleagues to give their initial insights, maybe 30 seconds, a minute, this will be a challenge.
Systemic Priorities and Active Travel
00:02:54
Speaker
Tell us what you what your initial impressions were and then we'll dive into a bit more detailed conversation about some of its implications.
00:03:01
Speaker
So Dom, do you want to kick us off from an active travel health perspective? What What did you think? Thanks, Nicola. Yeah, sir I think from from an active travel perspective, the most interesting thing about this strategy from my perspective is it is not arranged modally. It's the priorities are all systemic. They're all about their how do how do we get the the system to work as as a whole? And I think that in itself is a really massive positive and and and an opportunity from an active travel point of view because to me, active travel has always been the glue that holds it all together. Every journey starts and ends pretty much with an active stage. And I think there's some some real important challenges for us to get into seeing active travel as that glue rather than emotion itself.
Data and Technology in Transport Strategy
00:03:40
Speaker
That's one of the things i'm I'm really looking forward to getting into supporting our clients with.
00:03:44
Speaker
Fantastic. Well summarised. Ruby, tell us about your reflections. Yes, thanks Nicola. Dom touched on it actually and I think it's really clear that it is a system strategy and not a transport strategy. For me particularly, the emphasis on data and technology was really key because it feels to me that data is the real infrastructure that we've been under-investing in for so many years. So I think that for me is the key shift from anything else I've ever seen being published, particularly with the data transport strategy being published alongside it as well. And those links I think are going to be really, really important to move this into delivery.
00:04:19
Speaker
Brilliant. Thanks, Ruby. So, Steve, tell us what you think about the new strategy. What are your first impressions? I've got, in some ways, quite mixed feelings about it. I think everything that it says is great, but what I want to see is what's going to happen next, how we're going to do it. So much of the way that transport works in the UK is because of the shaping effect that the barriers that are in the way are. So, for example, Ruby, talking about data, one of the reasons that data is a problem is because too often the people who own and hold the data... are separate to the people that want to use it and sometimes commercial considerations. But really, how do we get out of that, sort of overlook those constraints and those barriers and just work in a joined up way to deliver up the joined up transport that we need?
Transport's Role in Development and Environment
00:05:00
Speaker
Great. Thank you, Steve. Right. So we've had some good initial reflections there. I thought maybe we could move on to talk about the big picture. So i think probably all of us are bought into the idea that transport isn't an end in itself, that it shapes a whole range of different ambitions that we're trying to deliver in our places, whether that's around health, the economy, environment, social inclusion and and so on.
00:05:24
Speaker
And I thought it'd be really good to start with the conversation about how well we think the strategy is kind of framing those those broader issues and how well it's it's trying to tackle some of those really big challenges that we're facing in our wider society. So should we start with health?
00:05:38
Speaker
that's got quite a major focus in the strategy. What what were your reflections on that, Dom? Yes, and it it comes out as ah as a big focus and and clearly active travel is a big part of that and has a massive part to play in the public health agenda going going forward. the The challenge, I think, that it it doesn't quite get to is is how do we actually integrate service provision with health? And I've lost count of the number of times I've kind of wanted to get data in from the health side of things to join up things like How often do people go to hospital because they've fallen over on a pavement that hasn't been gritted or whatever it might be? But that always seems to be too hard to to do that. And ah think we haven't yet got to a point where it's really recognised on both sides of the health and and transport professional equation, ah the the real importance of that integration and the and the the opportunities from from bringing that data together. So I hope that this can be a a catalyst to help us help us do that because the health benefits are a massive part of why active travel is. the best mode of transport.
00:06:39
Speaker
Brilliant. Thanks, Dom. Steve, what's your take on the big framing of why transport is so important? I think kind of building what Dom was saying about the act of travel, really, the integration has to be right. That if you want to come across from Leeds to Manchester, as I came today, I had to walk to the bus stop.
00:06:54
Speaker
I got the bus into the centre of Leeds. I walked to the train station. I got the train to Manchester. And every single part of that journey comes with its own stresses and considerations. And there's nothing worse than thinking about whether the train's going to be running on time when you're standing at a bus stop, not knowing whether the bus is going to turn up.
00:07:12
Speaker
And it just has to be all working properly. Making the trains run really fast between Leeds and Manchester is absolutely no help if you still go at the speed of a snail into the centre of Leeds or you get to Manchester and you find that the location that someone's decided or you need to go to is just totally unconnected.
00:07:32
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Trying to join all that up has got to be sort of at the heart of of the delivery of this this strategy. One of the things I was looking at quite closely was around housing delivery. That's obviously a massive priority of the current government. And i was pleased to see there's a whole sort of chapter on how transport and and development can be brought forward in a more integrated way. It's something we've been talking about for years. for years and years and we still, I think we still struggle with. And rail actually is positioned as playing a really central role in that ruby in terms of, you know, how can you get more development around train stations? Were you pleased to see that? or Do you think it's articulated clearly in the strategy?
00:08:06
Speaker
Yeah, i mean, I think, honestly, it's it's about time. I think it's been it's been a while since the sort of wider government, but also within rail, they've actually realised the potential that rail has around housing development. yeah Ultimately, rail is the spine of the transport network in the UK. I would say that. But for me, you know, it's only really been in the last few years that they've really thought about the potential that rail unlocks in terms of housing. you know, there's been a few changes around planning guidance that allows it to make housing decisions better. slightly easier if it's around a rail station so it gives you easier sort of planning guidance and and access to that but also recently STEER we did a we did a piece of work for the Railway Industry association Association about looking at stations as places and as engines for growth rather than station being the original destination of your journey and looking at kind of the potential for housing development around stations, what kind of land currently exists around stations, what could that bring to the local and and wider economies, which i think is really, really important.
00:09:05
Speaker
And it's probably quite nuanced in practice, isn't it? Because you're not going to it's not going to be appropriate to build housing around every station if you know if you've only got one service an hour or something like that. So we're going to have to work quite hard to identify those locations which are genuinely accessible and genuinely sensible places to put new development.
00:09:22
Speaker
Is there a general point though, that actually it makes sense to look at development, which is connected to integrated with existing facilities rather than trying to get the transport to the development site you found? We all know how difficult that is. Yeah.
00:09:37
Speaker
yeah Having tried it, ah just reflecting on what you said, Ruby, I was was reminded of, ah I was lucky enough in my previous role to go to Amsterdam to look at how they were planning their cycle network. And I was really struck looking at the the skyline of Amsterdam. You could actually see where the kind of urban metro stations were because the skyline goes up because they densified the development around each of the stations.
00:09:59
Speaker
And the fact that there are parts of the location in Greater Manchester, perhaps, I'm thinking locally and in in my city where we're starting to get that, but there's a massive amount more can be done, isn't there, around getting that that link link up. And I think you're absolutely right, Nicola, that it's nuanced. From an active travel point of view, did a piece of work a couple of years ago looking at cycle catchments of Metrolink stops in Greater Manchester and They are completely different.
00:10:20
Speaker
Once you actually get to look at where would you expect somebody possibly to cycle to from, to this Metrolink stop? Some Metrolink stops have no cycle catchment at all because they're really close to where everyone can walk. Whereas if you took somewhere like Bury, for example, which is at the end of the line has a huge catchment cycle catchment where people might cycle for maybe even though people cycling from 10 miles to that location.
00:10:42
Speaker
And does choice of kind of the service that you get there come into that? Because by the time you're cycling, you kind of go, oh, if I go a little bit further, suddenly I've got extra services and now a more choice of destination. That's a much nicer place to get to and park my bike because I know that there's more choice from that point.
00:10:59
Speaker
I think also this is, you know, we're going to come into this a bit later, but I think this is where devolution plays a key part because even though it's a national strategy, there's going to be local decisions that need to be made based on the local needs of the local
Critiques and Carbon Reduction
00:11:10
Speaker
people. And that's why, you know, we can't be prescriptive and say, yes, we'll build X number of houses around every single rail station in the UK.
00:11:18
Speaker
That will be a big challenge for the rail industry, won't it? Because there'll be lots of demand right across the country, different local authorities saying we want to put more development around stations. Do you do you think the rail industry is is ready for that challenge?
00:11:31
Speaker
I think the rail industry is certainly getting ready. and The creation of Platform 4, which it was and is a network rail property development organisation, I think shows that. But also you you can see it now within...
00:11:42
Speaker
renewals and enhancements for existing stations. It's considering the population and population growth and housing development opportunities, particularly new stations. You think about HS2, for example, Old Oak Common and Curzon Street are going to be massive development areas. And the station is just one single tiny part of that. And that's enabled that development area. And essentially, we're going to create new suburbs outside of major cities.
00:12:04
Speaker
So you're going to need different skills and capabilities within the rail industry as well, aren't you? Not not just people who are used to kind of managing, thinking about networks, like and have to think about the places, those rail services.
00:12:15
Speaker
I guess the other the other reflection on the development side was that policy does seem to be starting to join up. So we've got a new national planning policy framework. We've got vision-led planning talked about, not just in transport planning, but in land use planning as well. So I feel more kind of more optimistic that we're actually putting the supporting policies, guidance, getting more into the detail of how do you actually make vision-led planning work in practice. So I think that's really positive and really, really nice to see in the in the new strategy.
00:12:43
Speaker
The one thing that I was thought maybe was a little bit underdeveloped in the strategy was the focus on carbon. I don't know if others thought that. It's kind of mentioned in relation to electrifying the vehicle fleet, but there was very little about the role of cars in our society. There was very little about reducing demand for for travel overall. I don't know whether any of you had any observations on the kind of environmental emphasis of of the strategy.
00:13:06
Speaker
I completely agree. Yeah, it was something that really surprised me when I read it. Because to me, the reason that I've been in transport planning for 25 years is because i think it's a really important part of the decarbonisation agenda. And it's a massive part of lots of other agendas that are important as well. But but yeah, it did it did feel to me that that was, it did it didn't feel like it was it was articulating that as a ah kind of key reason for reason for doing integrated transport planning, yeah which was a surprise. and And it didn't feel like a continuation of the sort of the climate emergency and the the policy that we've been over the last few years suddenly to kind of have a strategy that barely mentions carbon.
00:13:44
Speaker
I mean, carbon is difficult from a transport point of view, isn't it? Because, you know, Nicola said, he talks about electrification, fleets and things, but actually that doesn't fundamentally completely remove the carbon problem. Actually, what's much better is getting people to be living so that they can use a DOM route and walk or cycle to where they want to go, because that's the least carbon way of doing it. I mean, from a carbon perspective, what we were saying about kind of a big area of development by Curzon Street, if they're all going to be getting HS2 and working in London, is that a brilliantly sustainable answer to where people live and work?
00:14:18
Speaker
Not necessarily. Yeah, i've I've always kind of felt that there's too much focus in transport planning on making it easier to travel a very long way, which is fundamentally quite a carbon intensive way of doing things, isn't it?
00:14:30
Speaker
When really, we ought to be decarbonizing the local journeys and and ensuring that people are able to live close to where they need basic services and employment.
Transport Needs Across Different Areas
00:14:39
Speaker
It doesn't really say too much to that perhaps, or as as much as it could.
00:14:43
Speaker
And like so many of those things, the wider benefits of that are are important too, that if you're making a low-carbon short journey, actually that's probably better for your your mental health, your peace of mind, your all the kind of things that you can do. If you spend a huge amount of your day traveling, that's time you could be spending reading a book, talking to kids, reading them a story, all those kind of things.
00:15:09
Speaker
So much time ends up being wasted by people making those long commute journeys. I know you could be sat on the train listening to our our delightful voices recording this podcast, but there are better things you could do with your life than traveling for the sake of work.
00:15:24
Speaker
Other podcasts are available.
00:15:28
Speaker
but i i I was quite interested to see that there was a bit of a place element brought into it. So there's short sections on kind of the different transport needs of rural areas, suburban areas, urban areas. Did did you think that worked? Is that is that a helpful lens to to look at transport through?
00:15:45
Speaker
It felt like the strategy was quite introspective in that way, in that, it it yes, it focused on the different yeah types of areas within within the country, but it it was more focusing on journeys within those areas rather than somebody that was commuting from a suburban area into an urban area, for example. And it's it's getting that balance right, as you said, Dom. It's, you know, those short journeys as well as the longer ones, and it's it's finding in the balance of where where do we emphasise our efforts.
00:16:12
Speaker
Yeah. And perhaps accepting accepting that people are going to be using cars in rural areas, which, you know, is a is a big challenge to address, but should we be putting more effort into providing alternatives to the car in in those rural areas, as well as the the more the more urban towns and cities? But with finite amounts of money to spend, it can be ah really expensive to get a bus or a public transport solution to a rural area. So sometimes maybe we do have to accept that car is going to be the answer for some of those trips for some of those people. and concentrate on the places where we can actually make a difference or transport can make a difference. And and fundamentally, in ah loss of the bits I look at in terms of transit, particularly that concentration of people making the same movement is really what counts. You have to be having enough people going between the same two places to make it worthwhile, putting that investment into something that can carry them efficiently.
00:17:09
Speaker
And I suppose a key thing for me is is what whilst, yes, the car might be the best option for somebody living rurally, when that person needs to come into a city, are we providing options that mean that they don't have to do the bit of the car journey that ends up with this massive metal box coming into residential streets or city centre
Strategy, Devolution, and Consistency
00:17:29
Speaker
streets? And we've been doing quite a bit of work, for example, recently for the Sheffield City Council on that. Nicholas been involved as well. and that's been That's been really interesting to to think about how do we how do we provide those those options where perhaps yeah you can you can park and ride, you can leave a car, whether there's a a tram or whatever.
00:17:44
Speaker
Yeah, I didn't see too much of that in strategy, but maybe I missed So, yeah, I think i think it was it's good to recognise that there are those different travel needs in different different sorts of places. And I guess it's quite quite difficult in a national transport strategy to articulate that in a nuanced way. So I guess as a hook for local local areas to be thinking about how you join modes up and and and think about different people's needs in different parts of your area. I think think that's helpful helpful and that's certainly the approach that we we take in the strategies that we develop for for our clients. Is there something of a paradox, Nicola, that we finally get a national transport strategy for the first time in in most people's working memories?
Political Challenges in Implementation
00:18:25
Speaker
And in it, they say, here's the national transport strategy that you're going to do, but it comes with devolution that allows you to decide what you're going to do, yeah as long as you do what we tell you you're going to do.
00:18:36
Speaker
And it is really difficult, isn't it? If you're trying to create a truly integrated transport system, you do need things to be consistent across different areas. But as you say, at the same time, you're trying to devolve more of those responsibilities to the place the people and the the leaders who know their places the best. so and Getting that balance right between the detail of what you do in that area, but making sure things join up across boundaries, that that is that is a tricky balance. and yeah ah I think trying to write this strategy must have been really challenging from from that point of view. and Fundamentally, we're talking transport. which kind of takes a lot from geography and the nature of the places and the way the connections come into the places is what shapes them. know, it's one of the things that makes Manchester different from Leeds is the kind of combination of where the railways were, that some of which became Metrolink and the heavy corridors. And, you know, for example, Leeds...
00:19:29
Speaker
There's an interesting problem with active travel, which is fine radially, but the moment you try to go orbitally, you hit valleys almost immediately, which means that cycling at least one half of your trip is less fun.
00:19:41
Speaker
Yeah. but Need an electric bike, Steve. I have an electric bionicler. It's my favourite way to get it around the city. I think an interesting question is on timing and and and a fundamental problem that's always struck me about vision-led transport planning or it is is that transport takes a long time to happen. It takes a long time to produce How long have been trying to build a tram line in Leeds, Steve?
00:20:04
Speaker
When I went to Leeds as a student in 1991, the tram line was on the A to Z. And at the moment, the delivery date, I think, is about 2039. Yeah. And similarly, when I was doing L-Level Geography at College in Stockport, we had a big plan of the Metrolink extension to Stockport on the geography classroom wall. That was in 1997.
00:20:22
Speaker
And we still don't have Metrolink to Stockport. The plan looks he's exactly the same. So it takes a long time and and and that's that's but that's not necessarily a a criticism or a bad thing. We all do transport planning quite hard some of the time, but it makes it difficult in a kind of political time cycle to make this work. And I i was struck as I was kind of reading Heidi Alexander's introduction.
00:20:43
Speaker
It's all very well, but... How long does the transport secretary last for? And in order to get this to work, it needs some continuity of thought, they even if not necessarily continuity of leadership, because we know that's not necessarily realistic, but there needs to be a commitment. And maybe we as transport professionals need to take more responsibility for that and not leave it to the politicians as much.
00:21:04
Speaker
I think it's interesting on that point, isn't it? Because I think it feels to me like like transport is a bit of an uncontroversial topic in politics, in that we all know that transport is needed and we all know that it's vital. Yes, different governments have had different stances on specific... projects, for example.
00:21:21
Speaker
But actually, you know, like you said, in terms of having that longevity of leadership is is not necessarily going to happen. But actually, it it does feel like most parties are bought into integrated transport.
00:21:33
Speaker
And it does feel like it's not something that will need to be trying to win people over, you know, in another four or five years time. I think the challenge is on the ground, isn't it? So I think talking about nobody's going to argue with a more integrated customer focused transport system. But when you're trying to deliver bus priority into a city centre and you're having to take some space away from cars to do that, for example, that that's when it becomes really, really challenging and where you're having to make
Societal Benefits of Transport
00:21:59
Speaker
those trade offs. And I think that's maybe one area that this strategy slightly sort of skirts over, that those trade-offs are really challenging. When you have finite road space, for example, then you're always going to be making those trade-offs and that that requires some quite strong leadership at a local level. So I think that that's maybe an area that isn't really sort of tackled head head-on in the strategy.
00:22:21
Speaker
in In terms of something else that the strategy maybe is is quite quiet on is actually, again, the wider picture of transport. And that connectivity, and we've spent various time over the years thinking about how other budgets and other things might change because of connectivity. The the sort of example of isolation of people who haven't got connection took to where they need to go or can get out of the house. And I guess that talks to accessibility as well. But where in the strategies that talk about the fact that that by spending money on transport, you might make savings in other budgets for your health, your social care, because actually you are providing opportunities for people to get get out, to yeah to go and go for a walk, to to go to the shops or just not feeling so isolated. It's an absolutely huge part of the agenda. But we still only really talk about transport as for its own sake.
00:23:16
Speaker
and I think that'll be what's interesting about devolution and particularly places that have integrated settlements and they have a bit, they'll have more flexibility to move things between different policy
User-Focused Transport Systems
00:23:26
Speaker
areas and the degree to which local leaders will see transport as an enabler of a whole range of other ambitions, including so social inclusion as probably one of the key ones and and health as well, actually. So, yeah, I think that's... Again, that's probably down to us to help make the case, isn't it, that transport cuts across a whole range of ambitions and can help you deliver a really wide range of your objectives. And so, as you say, Steve, potentially save money in other parts of the system.
00:23:52
Speaker
So we've talked quite a lot about some of the bigger picture issues and some of the wider challenges the strategy is trying to tackle. But what really struck me was that this is a very user-centric strategy. It's all about people's individual experience how we can create more integrated end-to-end journeys, how we can give people simpler ticketing options, more affordable fares, and how we can use data to support some of those ambitions. So should we get stuck into some of those details around around the strategy and how maybe some of the challenges that we're going to face in actually delivering those big ambitions? I suppose one other one other kind of key theme is around accessibility, and that really comes out very strongly.
00:24:32
Speaker
And certainly at the workshop that I went to right at the beginning of the engagement process, there were a lot of advocacy groups and disabled groups and putting that case very strongly that at the moment the transport system really doesn't work for people with accessibility challenges. So, yeah, it be great to talk through some of those more nitty gritty issues that will face us in trying to create more more customer focused journeys.
00:24:54
Speaker
So, Dom, do you want to, you've been doing a lot of work, certainly in the accessibility space. Do you want to talk about some of that and what you liked about and what was in the strategy? Yeah, I really liked the the focus on on accessibility and access for all. It's something I've i've worked on right from the beginning of my career when i I run an engagement group with local advocacy groups in in Stockport for for disabled issues. And i think it's something that I think we've lost a little bit in recent years on from an active travel perspective, perhaps taking the example of low traffic neighbourhoods, where we've had a big focus on removing through car trips from neighbourhoods with modal filters. which which is is is it is a good thing. It's a controversial thing often, but it is is a good thing. But i I often think that we lose sight of some of the more basic accessibility challenges that we have. So we might have put a mo modal filter in there, but that side road crossing doesn't have a drop curb or doesn't have tactile paving or the pavements are completely blocked with parked cars. And those of us that are lucky enough to be fully able-bodied wouldn't think twice about crossing a road where there wasn't a drop curb. But For a significant minority of of of people, that's a real issue and it and it really prevents them from getting out and about and means that they're dependent on taxis often rather than rather than being able to to walk or wheel short journeys.
00:26:15
Speaker
So I really, really, really welcome that that focus in in the strategy and I'm really looking forward to supporting clients to deliver targeted, localised accessibility improvements at the neighbourhood level.
00:26:26
Speaker
Great.
Accessibility and Safety in Transport
00:26:27
Speaker
Thanks, Dom. Ruby, this is a big issue in the mail industry as well, isn't it? Do you want to talk a bit about that? Yeah, I mean, rail is pretty prolific for not being particularly accessible and also being quite difficult to be accessible. But also, I think for me, accessibility is a bit wider. It's about the accessibility of kind of having the confidence of being able to travel. You know, I'm somebody that uses a train very regularly, so I know exactly kind of what time my train is planning to arrive. I know exactly where I need to stand on the platform. You know, all of those things because I do it so often. The majority of people that I know will very rarely get on a train. And if there is the option to do that, they will not take it and they will use a private vehicle or do something else just because too much of a faff.
00:27:08
Speaker
I have to have six different tickets to be able to use my one journey and you know don't know where how I'm then going to get from the station to my end destination. So I think... For me, it's about, first of all, if the if the system is physically accessible, that will obviously give confidence that you can make the journey that you want to make. But then also it it goes wider into understanding the ticketing system, understanding fares, understanding the station and the environment that you're in all All of those things I think is is particularly important. You've then got also kind of safety comes into it as well. You know, stations tend to be not very well lit occasionally and that might then impact particularly women or people that feel more vulnerable. And, you know, all all of those things, I think, but need to come together as a system to make the transport system more accessible to everybody.
00:27:55
Speaker
and it And it really does benefit everybody, doesn't it? you You might think, oh, this is just we're putting in this lift cook you know for somebody in a wheelchair, for example. But if you've got a push chair, you've got heavy luggage, any of those things, you've got an injury. There are all sorts of reasons where actually why actually that lift could make a real real difference to a whole range of different customers.
00:28:14
Speaker
And everything you said, Ruby, about the kind of legibility of the network equally applies to buses and to active travel. But the biggest blocker can be, you know, bus should be the simplest decision that anybody gets to make. But you hear about whole groups of people where there they've never, or their children have never been on a bus. And, you know, active travel, one of the biggest questions is, will I definitely be able to get there? What what route do I need to take? How do I get through that junction? And you that just understanding how you're going to do it and that it will work the way you expect it to is so important.
00:28:46
Speaker
Wayfinding
Affordability and Active Travel Opportunities
00:28:47
Speaker
is a significant part of that wider accessibility, as you put it, from an active travel perspective. We've been doing quite a bit of work for clients on wayfinding recently and developing approaches which are accessible and talk to people rather than talk to transport planners. I think that's bit of a general theme with transport planning. We tend to think as transport planners who might get trains quite often, for example. But as you say, a lot of people, it's a barrier and it needs to be easy, doesn't it, to be accessible. And we can't just fix the rail stations. We've got to make sure that actually there's an accessible walking route from people's homes to that train station or to that bus stop. And if we don't think about that entire end-to-end journey, then it doesn't matter how accessible the station is. People won't be able to get there. And the return As well as the out journey, because you arrive back and it's dark. It's a very different prospect to what it might have been in the morning. Absolutely, yeah. I think that's one of the ways that thinking about the way the strategy deals sort of without being too modally specific, I think it does make that conversation about accessibility easier because it's too easy to kind of go accessibility or immediately go accessibility of rail, you know, you need think about it.
00:29:51
Speaker
accessibility for people to make those journeys. And just kind of that maybe brings us on to one of the other things that sort of is wider is that affordability point, the affordability of the trip, which i I don't quite think the strategy really gets there. You know, sort of says, oh, to make the trip more affordable, we've frozen rail fares. Well, unfortunately, an awful lot of the people who most need affordable travel probably aren't using the train and Even if for bus fares, the sort of the solution as put into the document seems to more be, oh, well, if enough people use it, it will become cheaper. And the reality is that actually to make travel more affordable, and that's a huge issue, not just fares, how much it costs to own or drive a car or to park, all those kind of things, whatever you need to do. It needs a better solution than just to say, oh, if more people use it, it will become cheaper and that'll be fine.
00:30:39
Speaker
And, and probably one, you know, the affordability of travel is going to be the first thing to fall over because with what's happening on the global basis at the moment, fuel prices are going through the roof. Apart from presumably DOM active travel will remain affordable and cheap until shoe leather or something becomes a problem.
00:30:57
Speaker
Well, I think there are some affordability issues with active travel as well, because bikes can be expensive, but also space to park a bike at home is expensive. It's all right. Maybe at your your destination, your your workplace might have workplace park parking, but how many people have actually got the space to keep a bike safe? somewhere undercover that's secure where they're confident it's still going to be there
Integration Through Data and Technology
00:31:17
Speaker
in the morning. And something we've been doing recently is looking at how we can best target on-street residential secure cycle parking for for our clients. It's got quite popular in London, looking at how we can how we can roll that out wider in in in some of the some of the more northern cities there as well.
00:31:33
Speaker
And that'll be even more important if we're putting higher density development around stations, for example, so all these things start to come together, don't they, in terms of needing the full range of integrated solutions. Ruby, you mentioned data at the beginning. do you want to touch on that a little bit more in terms of the role of data in creating these more integrated journeys? Yeah, I think it's ah it's a really interesting one, isn't it? I think, know, Steve said it as well and is in his opening remarks.
00:31:57
Speaker
It's always very much been kind of hoarded, let's say, or kind of everyone's kind of gatekept the data and their own data. and And obviously, yes, there are commercial sensitivities. And obviously, yes, occasionally the bus and the rail network will be competing against each other.
00:32:13
Speaker
But ultimately, we need to be working towards a shared benefit. And I think this is hopefully what what this strategy is trying to to do by not being split out modally. It's showing that actually, you know, this is better for everyone. And it sounds a bit of a cliche, but, you know, yes, if you get more people on the train and then you're able to make sure that your bus timetable is aligned with the rail timetable, that's going to be beneficial for both of them.
00:32:35
Speaker
So i think that's really, really keen. And as said before, it's it's less been under-invested. I think it's just not really been thought about in that way. And actually, data is probably the most vital infrastructure we have for the transport network. And without it, everything kind of falls over. you know Obviously, you know there's lots of talk about... innovation and AI in particular. There's recently just been in an AI strategy developed for rail for GBRX, which is kind of the innovation body for Great British Railways. But for me, you know, technology and innovation is going to be able to sort of help us scale up what already works rather than trying to create something new.
00:33:09
Speaker
Because, we you know, actually it's it's relatively simple in that having integrated ticketing, having simple affairs, technology is going to be able to enable us to do that. And I think that's kind of key, like focus on what already works and try and roll it out.
00:33:22
Speaker
And this is what maybe where devolution is actually quite helpful because you'll have local leaders who are interested in having more influence or control over buses over trains they'll want to know how that whole system is working how reliable it is whether it's providing the services that people need whether it's integrating effectively so actually maybe those low those local transport authorities almost become the convener of some of these different sources of data and bring that together with user insight and actually you start to get a much clearer view of how the whole system is working rather than just different parts of that system having ah a very narrow view of the bit that they their responsible for.
00:33:59
Speaker
But that that whole person focus needs to not be lost. There's sort of been in the last few years a bit of ah a theme with bus trips to use AI to look at the timetabling.
00:34:10
Speaker
Only what you get is timetables that are great because they are reliable. The buses stick to that timetable They're almost impenetrable from somebody using the bus because every single bus has a different length of time that it takes. There's no uniformity to the timetable at all. And it's just, oh, how can we satisfy the punctuality measure? There's no, how can we make this service better for the people who use it?
00:34:36
Speaker
I suppose the other aspect of data might be coming back to the point about health and other other areas. If we can start to bring together the impact, what is the impact of investing a more integrated transport strategy on health outcomes, on social exclusion, on productivity, all of those different wider aspects that we're trying to control, then actually we might we might start to get a better sense of what the value is in that in that transport investment. And that's surely somewhere where something like AI could help because being able to take different information from different places and look for patterns, obviously in a controlled way with people checking it quite carefully, but you know the ability of it to deal with lots of data and just kind of find some interesting things, that's really quite exciting.
Future Implications and Planning
00:35:20
Speaker
Fab. Okay. We're all getting excited about data. Who thought that? So I think we're coming to the end of this conversation. i wanted to start to think think to the future and the sort of work that we're doing for our our different clients. And we will have slightly different areas of expertise and different sorts of work that we we're doing. It'd be great to hear from each of you about what you think some of the implications are going to be from the sorts of projects that you're working on or the kinds of clients that you're you're advising. So, Dom, what are your kind of key key takeaways?
00:35:50
Speaker
I think... For me, from an active travel point of view, it comes back to this key thing about seeing active travel as the glue that binds everything together and and not only seeing it as ah a kind of mode on on it on its own. And i think I think there's a lot more that we can do to help our clients intelligently target very localized active travel measures. We've tended to focus perhaps previously on delivering a big Cycle Superhighway corridor into a city center or whatever. That's a great thing to do. I'm not saying it's not. It's a really important thing to do. But at the local level, it's often quite difficult for local authorities to say, well, how how how should I target where I do my drop crossing program or whatever? how do i how do How should I work out where to put residential cycle parking when I've got limited resources and I can't put it everywhere? And I think we have the tools to help them do that and to come up with meaningful programs that are prioritized and will will be will be really impactful that are focused on
00:36:42
Speaker
enabling use of the transport system, the public transport system as a whole, as ah as ah as a genuine alternative to the private car with active travel facilitating that locally. Brilliant. Thanks, Dom. Ruby, what are your kind of reflections? How do you think this might shape the sort of work that you do?
00:36:57
Speaker
I think it's certainly making clients, I think, a little bit more aware of the kind of interdependencies between, for example, housing and transport, et cetera. And obviously we're lucky at Steer that we've got transport specialists and planning specialists and and things like that. And I think Also, you know, as said as I've said before, her using data in an innovative way. We've done some recently some really interesting things with mobile network data for network rail and train operators, looking at actually how do people actually move? You know, we we know that we rail carries people, but data carries the system. And it's it's looking at, yes, there's train here, but actually how many people are on that train and you know how many people are then getting onto the bus or getting onto the tram or walking to their destination. And And what can those insights bring rather than kind of focusing on performance, but actually having passenger weighted performance metrics and things like that. i think that's really insightful. and And that's where I see this sort of stuff going, particularly within within intu integrated transport.
00:37:54
Speaker
Yeah, I think there's definitely going to be a lot more collaboration between the rail industry and local places and thinking about how rail rail can really shape and influence what happens in places. So I think that's i think that's really exciting and and probably long overdue, actually. So yeah, we'll be working together much more closely over the next few years, Ruby.
00:38:12
Speaker
Steve, what are your what are your reflections? As you know, Nicola, I've spent much of the last sort five to ten years looking at bus franchising, which until now has been in the big metropolitan areas, but is now available across a much wider range of authorities through the latest Bus Services Act.
00:38:29
Speaker
And while bus franchising isn't necessarily the solution to some of the problems and some of the issues we've got, it can remove some of those barriers we were talking about earlier, because bus franchising, suddenly that becomes the point where obviously the local authority isn't going to put in a bus service, which is competing with its own transit service or with rail.
00:38:47
Speaker
And suddenly you get to a situation where you are planning an integrated network. You do have that power, that influence. You can decide who is going to get a regular bus service, how how you get to serve the more rural areas, how you join these things up. You can decide, you know, for the first time since 1986, how much it's going to cost people to make a bus journey. The number of bus journeys that are made in the country is is phenomenal. I mean, maybe Dom will slightly outdo me with the number of trips that are made on foot and on on bikes. But, you know, this sort of huge number of trips are made by by bus.
00:39:22
Speaker
And for so many years, not that much attention has been paid to them. But that is gradually changing. That's great. Thanks, Steve. yeah
Place-Based Strategic Planning
00:39:30
Speaker
The other aspect that I think probably relates quite closely to the kind of work you do is the slightly techie final priority chapter, which is all around optimising decision making and appraisal with a sort of strong focus on place-based business cases in particular and thinking about how we make the case for transport that doesn't just focus on the transport benefits, but looks much more about, again, about how transport shapes places. How how is that likely to change the way that we we make that case for investments?
00:39:56
Speaker
I think it has to be the case that sort of looking at more place-based business case and devolution of those decisions has to go hand in hand. Because again, you know the idea that someone in government should say, here's what would be good for your place in the north of England. now How could that possibly greet case be the case? But it it does show that we need to sort out some of the sort of the skills and experience distribution, as it were, that we're we're talking about new types of business case, new focus for business case in a time when actually some of those skills that are needed to assess, or either to develop them these cases or to assess them and understand them, are quite short supply perhaps. And that balance of how you deal with the sort of local knowledge versus wider experience is And make sure you've got the correct balance of how you make those decisions. And, you know, we shouldn't fall into the trap of thinking that just because we can make decisions locally, we can make any decision we feel like, you know, that the underlying point of those decisions will still remain. How do we demonstrate that this is the right option at the right time and the right thing to do?
00:41:01
Speaker
Devolution isn't a license to say, oh we can finally build our cycle superhighway across the Pennines or through the Pennines or whatever it is. It still needs to show that that is the right solution at the right time to the right problem.
00:41:16
Speaker
And I think that comes around to sort of my area of work around strategic planning and how you sort of shape strategic planning plans, putting transport, thinking about transport in an integrated way with your economic plans, your land use plans, your environmental plans and and so on, so that you're really clear on what your local priorities are. And for me, one of the big things that's come, came out of the alongside this national transport strategy was new local transport plan guidance. which very much looks to embed what the principles and the priorities and the national transport strategy into into the priorities that need to feed into the local transport plans.
00:41:51
Speaker
I think there are some interesting questions about how much freedom that then gives local areas to focus on the things that they think are important. But anyway, it's a way of starting to turn that national transport strategy into action at a local level. So that's something that we're working through in real time with some of the clients we're developing local transport plans with. And I think in
Conclusion and Positive Impact of the Strategy
00:42:09
Speaker
general in general terms, that's really positive that we've got a much clearer direction. And hopefully you'll then get local transport plans that kind of mesh across boundaries and that have a level of consistency that enables those end-to-end journeys to be to be planned in a more more integrated way. So, yeah, it's going to have a real impact, I think, in a lot of the work that we're doing at that more local level.
00:42:29
Speaker
That's been a great conversation, lots of different perspectives. I think we've probably only scratched the surface as 90 odd pages of strategy there. We certainly haven't covered it all, but I think we've really managed to dig into some of the key issues. And I think probably we're all agreed that having a national transport strategy is ah is a positive thing and a step forward and gives us all more clarity in terms of what we're what the overall vision is that we're all contributing to in our different roles.
00:42:53
Speaker
I think overall, we would take that as a big positive and ah and a big step forward and really helpful and in framing framing the work that we do. So thank you to Don, Ruby, Steve for spending this time to talk talk it through. Hopefully listeners have got something useful out of that and look forward to the next dear podcast. Thank you, everyone. everyone Thank you.
00:43:29
Speaker
you