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#10 How can we create equitable shared mobility in North America?
78 Plays1 year ago
In the latest episode of Steer’s Voices of the Industry podcast series, Alia Verloes, Steer’s Lead for the New Mobility Market in North America, talks to three bike share and mobility equity leaders: Laura Mallonee, Director of Programs and Membership at the North American Bikeshare & Scootershare Association (NABSA); Adriel Thornton, Executive Director of MoGo Detroit Bike Share; and Waffiyyah Murray, Better Bike Share Partnership Program Manager at the City of Philadelphia.
The conversation explores how bike share programs are becoming more inclusive and equitable. Our guests share their thoughts on how to embed equity into every part of bike share systems and how programs in cities like Detroit and Philadelphia are engaging the community, making bikes more accessible through adaptive bikes and driving social change.
An essential listen for those in transportation, urban mobility, and community engagement, this episode offers practical examples and strategies to help bike share programs serve as a catalyst for social equity and urban innovation.
Key takeaways
- Equity in all parts of the program: Find out how the most impactful bike share programs weave equity into all components rather than treating it as a standalone initiative, ensuring greater access for all communities.
- Expanding accessibility with adaptive & e-bikes: Learn about electrifying bike share fleets and introducing adaptive bikes so micromobility is accessible to people of all abilities and making inclusivity the core of transportation.
- Community led approaches to engagement: Hear about community outreach strategies and the value of long-term partnerships with local communities to build programs that respond to their needs and priorities.
Guest(s)
- Laura Mallonee, Director of Programs and Membership at the North American Bikeshare & Scootershare Association (NABSA)
- Adriel Thornton, Executive Director at MoGo Detroit Bike Share
- Waffiyyah Murray, Better Bike Share Partnership Program Manager at the City of Philadelphia
Host(s)
- Alia Verloes, North American New Mobility Market Lead, Steer.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to 'Voices of the Industry'
00:00:08
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Voices of the Industry, a podcast series bringing you leading industry voices who challenge thinking across transportation, infrastructure and cities.
00:00:27
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Voices of Industry, a steer podcast.
Overview of Urban Innovation and Social Justice
00:00:31
Speaker
I am your host, Alia Valos, steer lead for the new mobility market in North America. Our topic today is at the intersection of urban innovation and social justice. Shared micromobility, a concept that's not just changing how we move,
00:00:46
Speaker
But who gets to move in our cities? And as cities are confronted with congestion, climate change and uneven access to transit, bike and e-scooters sharing the programme have emerged as a potential solution.
00:00:59
Speaker
Yet, we must ask, are these system-reaching viewers you need the most? And how do we bridge the gap to ensure equitable access across diverse local communities?
Meet the Guests: Laura, Wafia, and Adriel
00:01:09
Speaker
To explore this transformation and their implications more specifically, with me today is Laura Maloney, Membership and Engagement Director at the North American Bagshare Association, or NEPSA.
00:01:21
Speaker
Wafia Murray, Anti-Go Program Manager at the City of Philadelphia, and Adriel Thouton, Executive Director at MoGo Detroit Backshare. They'll share an insight on the challenges and opportunities in creating truly inclusive micro-mobility systems.
00:01:37
Speaker
So let's roll into the conversation and let's start with you, Lara, from NAPSA, which is an organization that has a sort of like bird's eye view on the industry.
NABSA Report on Equity in Micromobility
00:01:46
Speaker
The organization has released recently a report that shows a complex picture of equity in Chai micro mobility. What are the most surprising trends you've seen and what do you think is driving it?
00:01:57
Speaker
Thanks, Alia. I just want to step back for just a second and give a a little bit of a recap of who NABSA is. We are the North American Bike Share and Scooter Share Association. And each year we produce a state of the industry report, which reports on ridership, metrics, systems across Canada, the United States, and Mexico. And equity is something we also report on to Alia's point.
00:02:25
Speaker
and I've really got two themes that I'd like to share about from the the recent report is for this year, we've seen an increase in the number of systems that offer offer some type of adaptive program. So that could be different adaptive bicycles. there we We are seeing a larger quantity of systems offering adaptive programs. And I think these are driven by systems recognizing the need to offer different types of vehicles to serve rider needs.
00:02:55
Speaker
And one of the things that I think is super interesting about this is the industry is exploring this together. If you look at a timeline of shared microability, the first bike share system in North America launched between 2008 and 2009. And then we started seeing scooters in 2017. So big picture, we're still a pretty young industry. So it's really exciting to see.
00:03:16
Speaker
equity initiatives, um like adaptive programs that we're starting to see an increase of. The other theme that I'm not necessarily sure I would say it's surprising, but I do it is like worth stating is that what we see in year after year our reports is that systems that incorporate equity into their programs by weaving it through all the elements, not siloing it on its own, are going to have the greatest impact. They're going to have you know the the greatest uptake in whatever equity programs they're doing. And I would say overall, they have the most successful metrics to share about who they're impacting and getting more people to be able to access their systems. So I'd say that's it's not just about doing the one thing that's siloed over here that's checking the box. We really see that people weaving it into their
00:04:09
Speaker
programs into the fabric and is really impactful. And I think we have some really good examples here that we'll be able to talk about. That's fantastic, even during my transition. And I think this is giving us really powerful intro to deep dive now into sort of like more specific city experiences.
MOGO's Vision and Equity Initiatives
00:04:28
Speaker
And Adriana, I would like to start with you. You're steering MOGO in Detroit, a city with a very complex history regarding transportation access, among other things.
00:04:37
Speaker
And MOGO aims to serve a wide range of people and needs in the city. So could you go back a little bit on the sort of vision for MOGO, but also what's your most innovative equity initiative right now and how did you develop it?
00:04:51
Speaker
You're correct, Detroit as a whole, Metro Detroit, the city itself is over 300 square miles and then you add Metro Detroit to it, it's a really big, big piece of, it's a big area to cover. So in launching a bike share system here, the idea was obviously we have to start in some places and not be able to get to every single place at the same time.
00:05:11
Speaker
And the idea was to to really focus on some of the the transportation needs that the Metro Detroit area has. Our transit system here, we've got multiple bus systems, right? There's a suburban one, there's an inner city one, and while they work like they can work together, it still has multiple systems. you know The idea of, we don't we have a light rail system that goes about two miles.
00:05:36
Speaker
for the entire area and so you know we have the the idea here and if maybe it's because it was the Motor City we used to have a very robust transportation system um a mass mass transit system here and that was dismantled in the you know 40s and 50s as the auto well the auto industry really ramped up here so Detroit is literally built for cars right now so with that though there are some financial challenges so We don't have a really robust transportation system, I think, going across the board, right? So the idea of bike share was really a way for folks to be able to really, to fill in those gaps. It really was a first mile, last mile solution here. But for some folks, it is the only solution.
00:06:14
Speaker
And you know we actually operate in two counties and in Metro Detroit. So we're one of the few unified transportation systems in the area. And what we we launched in 2017, we baked the idea of accessibility and and equity into the system. So we launched with an access pass that in large part was based on a indigo's system. And in 2018, we launched our adaptive program.
00:06:42
Speaker
which has been really, really successful here. It could be much, much better. yeah Obviously, you have to buy there because these things are not cheap. But I think it's really important and this is then this this is the most innovative solutions I think that we're getting into now and something that I'm really proud of is we're beginning just now to electrify our adaptive fleet.
00:07:00
Speaker
So we just, we have two E trikes in the system now. And it's really, really exciting. People are really excited by it. And I think that that's really important. And we're right into the equity piece because, you know, we we know that e-bikes typically are easier for people to ride with much less effort. And so when you're talking about the adaptive community, I think that really is an important step, that direction. So we're going to continue to electrify where we can and to expand our system. So.
00:07:26
Speaker
I think he's a really good example. And maybe before going to Shili and Wafia, a question about e-bike and equity, because we know that, you know, going back on a bike when an adult is not something that's necessary easy, and it's even harder when you add the electric aspect of it. So how did you manage within the program that sort of balance between getting people trained to use this new tool?
00:07:50
Speaker
I guess the thing about the adaptive program here is that the bikes, you pretty much need to be trained how to ride them period, right? So, you know, a customer day one, it has to learn how to do something, right? So, yeah I don't know if you've ever written some of the adaptive vehicles, but they are There could be a wide range of shapes and sizes and fits, right? Some of them will literally, you need to, some of them literally need to be fitted to you. So it takes me like a lack of wow. So I still haven't mastered really writing some of them. It's a challenge, right? It's ah it's a different thing than a regular two wheel bike. So the adding the E component to it really wasn't that much more of a challenge. I think that, you know.
00:08:32
Speaker
but it's likely that someone on a trike who's getting on one of the trikes, this probably is their first time on one period, right? So it's not like you have to go back and relearn how to how to do this. I will say that I think the electrification of the fleets, if I can go to this across the board, I think is on one hand, and this is how I see it working into equity of an accessibility.
00:08:56
Speaker
and again in a city like Detroit, right the idea that you can you know that she may have to cover like really big distances. It's 12, 13 miles between our downtown and, say, the first suburb, Ferndale, that we have another mogul station at.
00:09:13
Speaker
And there is a gap in there, right? So if if that's the way that you commute to work though, being able, or go to your doctor or any other number of things, the idea that you can do so much faster and easier to me is what really makes the equity piece of E of electric pedal assist bikes really important because it actually opens up access.
00:09:34
Speaker
We have seniors who are hunting those bikes down everywhere they can because they're just that much easier to ride on their body, you know their knees, you know people may have backs, and et cetera, et cetera. And this is this is a much easier thing for them actually to ride. So it actually increases, I think, that opportunity to pull people wouldn into the mix. I think that's a really powerful example of how transportation can be a tool for social justice.
00:09:58
Speaker
Refia, an editor has been operating in Philly for several years now and Adriel just mentioned the program is one of the model that has been used when they were thinking about MOGU. So I'm quite curious of how has your approach to equity evolved and what's driving those changes?
Indigo's Approach to Community Relationships
00:10:14
Speaker
Great, great question. So I guess our initial approach to equity and what has always been our approach is very foreign point with what Laura mentioned.
00:10:23
Speaker
equity as my mentor Naja Killebrew would say the fabric not the fabric softener so it needs to be ingrained in everything that you do and that is a stance that Indigo took to bike share from the beginning it and continue to do that. I would say the way that we've evolved in our programming is really really doubling down over the years on our relationships because our relationships with our partners, especially our community partners have really been like the strong force that keeps Indigo going like our community ambassadors and
00:11:01
Speaker
our community champion to vouch for Indigo, right? Well, we were just starting out and folks didn't know who we were and they would vouch for us to say, Hey, no, these folks are Indigo. They're really good.
00:11:14
Speaker
they're really trying to provide an affordable transportation option for our residents or for our community and having those folks vouch for us and inviting us to the meetings and help us to just get a foot into the door. And then of course it was our job to continue you to build that trust to follow through and do what we say that what we say we were going to do. We continue to to sustain those relationships. So something we really try to focus on is building new relationships with new partners while also sustaining our strong relationships. Most recently, we started an Indigo Community Advisory Council. It consists of community members that have been a part of Indigo since the beginning of our system and have supported Indigo, have provided
00:12:02
Speaker
valuable feedback to us over the years. So we just kind of put that into a more structured setting. We provide funding to support all of the great feedback that they give us and we get information from them on, you know, what should we do about a new past option? We're looking to implement what do we do about expansion? What are your thoughts? Like really getting that real-time feedback from trusted community members is really helpful. We've also improved some of our programming like the Indigo Community mini grants program. We've added additional funding to how much community and members can apply for. Another great example is our Indigo Friends and Family Day. So this was an event that was an idea of our community ambassadors. They wanted to have like
00:12:47
Speaker
a community day where all of their community partners can come and learn not just about Indigo but all of the great resources that each of the communities and programs are offering. They help Indigo put that together and we've continued to do that each year and it gets bigger and bigger. So I would say kind of our missional equity has we remained the same but we've just really doubled down on how we can innovate our programming and continue you to you know build and sustain relationships with our community partners.
00:13:18
Speaker
you know And I think this is definitely setting the stage for other programs to look at how you've been doing and and how successful it has been forward for you guys and Silly. And Lara, I want to go back to you, Danapsari bought Hanai's various equity programs as well, you know, just building on what Fia and Adriel have just shared with us. Can you give us some standard other example?
00:13:42
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I can. but So some some different examples. so Basically what we do is is we request information from operators, transit agencies, operating shared micro-obility. And so they respond to questions that help inform our report. And so for this year, I say this year, all the metrics are from 2023. So it's our 2023 shared micro-obility state of the industry report for North America.
00:14:11
Speaker
Examples of equity programs that we're seeing are different discount programs. so That could be a reduce past reduced reduced fare structure, alternative payments. Alternative payment could mean using some type of alternative payment. it you know Maybe not using the app for access, maybe a partnership with the library or a physical path that program might be using. Education and outreach programs,
00:14:35
Speaker
underscoring Waufia's point, these are huge. If people don't know that you're doing programs like riders, potential riders, don't know that they're a potential rider, you're not reaching the individuals who might need a bike share screw or scooter share system as their form of transportation. We also see equitable hiring processes across the board.
00:14:57
Speaker
geographic distribution policies. This could mean, you know, being intentional about reaching certain areas of a city community to making making sure that vehicles are available for individuals to ride. And then the other one which I talked about already is adaptive vehicles. And I'll note that I'm reporting on these like standalone, but what most often we see is systems that are incorporating elements of each, maybe not all, have some really robust equity programs within their systems. Absolutely. key And while I guess what Adriel also shared on that specific point is this testimony of that, isn't it?
00:15:40
Speaker
Adriel, just building on what Fia was saying and and Nara was saying about training and the importance of outreach, could you define it a bit more on what MoGo is is doing on that front?
MOGO's Outreach Strategies in Detroit
00:15:50
Speaker
Sure. I think it's really, to Laura's point, I love what she said, that you know people have to know that they're potential customers, right?
00:15:57
Speaker
that this is for them. And and you know I think that's a challenge for most of our systems. right is Well, let let me backtrack a little bit. I think part that is so important. and Part of the thing I think that our industry really is challenged with is getting out of our own bubble and having the resources to do so. right So you know we had a lot of attention when we first launched in 2017. People were following us and stuff like that. But now across the board, we're kind of, I don't want to say stuck with them.
00:16:25
Speaker
But you know it's hard to grow that network, right, on these other, on these various channels. And so it's really important, and what, you know, we do is we actually, ah like Waspia said, we actually go out to the community. We we partner with, for instance, for on our Access Pass program. We partner with other equity-focused organizations, welfare for rights organizations, unhoused organizations, all sorts of things, and we will go sometimes. We will go up here and have a side-up of it there where we will bring You know our old computer and then you know, we also times may give those passes away, you know here in in ah in Detroit it's ah our Access pass is five bucks. It's about an $85 discount off our regular price if you receive state benefits
00:17:10
Speaker
Well, if you're receiving state benefits, there are other challenges, right? You may not have a stable place to live, but you may be at this place for now, right? But you probably make you don't have a computer. You don't have these things that are barriers. We take it for granted, but it's barriers, I think, for people to actually be able to access a bike share program or a bike share system. So it's key to actually go out to the community and to these places and then do some of the work that's there, right? In-person, live.
00:17:38
Speaker
right So i mean that's ah that's a really important way that we really do outreach. Another way, when we go into a community before we put our stations down, we do community outreach meetings too, which is great because it helps us figure out exactly where the best place to put stations are.
00:17:55
Speaker
We all know, we may think we need to know where it should be and where like, you know, other stakeholders think one particular station should be, but then you go to ask the community and they're like, ain't nobody riding over there, right? So, so that's I think really important. And then also it's doing, you know, when you do your marketing, I think it's important that you make sure that you meet people where you, where they are, not where you wish they were. So, you know, that means, I've said this before, I think my feet and Laura have probably heard me say this, but you got to put If you're going to put posters or flyers down, go to the liquor store, go to the go to the the gas station store that's kind of hot. and know in Again, in the city, you've got you know there are multiple churches around here, community centers. and But I feel like the people who go there, while they're important, they're already activated. right They're already sort of looking for those types of things. and I think you miss a whole group of people
00:18:48
Speaker
who you're probably not getting, you're probably not reaching out to in other ways either, right? So I could go and preach the Gospel of Logo already to a lot of folks who are interested in progressive things and civic-oriented people who are the ones that or tend to be going to these community meetings, et cetera, et cetera. But, you know, if you really want ah some other folks and probably some of the folks who really need it the most, meet them where they are. Barber shops. I mean, anything you don't want to say, like places that people go again, as opposed to where you really wish they were.
00:19:16
Speaker
I think it's an important message, this message about activation and the ferments. How can we reach people really need the service that don't necessarily think they are fitted for it? And at Wafia, I'm i'm quite interested to better understand and in the case of, and Fili, how do you do that? And how is the support you're getting from the the local communities is helping you doing this?
00:19:40
Speaker
I think it starts with a conversation, right? It starts with, like as Adriel said, you know meeting people where they are. You have to go to the neighborhoods and the communities and the folks and just talk to them, have a conversation about. And it doesn't have to be just about bite share. I think that's the other thing. like When I'm engaging with a new community. I'm just going to say, Hey, and let me introduce myself, our wife here with the city of Philadelphia. Tell me about you. Tell me about your community. Tell me about some of the things that you have going on. So tell me about some of the recent wins that your community organization has had. Tell me about some of the barriers that
00:20:24
Speaker
you may be experiencing. And from that conversation, sometimes you can kind of pull pull common things right between what you hear from the community and what you can offer as a service. So for instance, if I'm talking to a community member and one of the things they're dealing with is, you know, lack of reliable transportation or, you know, people are dealing with health issues, high rates of people with heart problems or diabetes or obesity or mental health.
00:20:54
Speaker
then hey, bike share can be a great way to be physically fit, physically active, a great way to help counteract some, you know, mental health issues, a great way to get affordable transportation to healthy food, resources, farmers markets, affordable transportation back and forth to school, work, places people frequently go, right? So you want to make it, you want, it's good to make bike share something that isn't an additional thing on people's plates,
00:21:23
Speaker
Because you gotta know these communities are already dealing with a lot, right? Violence, some of the things I've mentioned, gentrification, right? All of these things are real. So how can Bikeshare be not an extra thing on a plate, but something that can help them with some of the other things that they're already working on?
00:21:40
Speaker
I would say that is often the approach that works the best and that I've seen work well in communities, but then that helps you continue you to build that trust. And are you having any events that we can come to and share about this work? Are there other folks that you recommend that we talk to? So it was really like you're getting to talk about relationships a lot because that's really what it is. Like you're getting to know someone, you know, you learn a bit about that person. You don't. Well, some people do, but I wouldn't recommend you ah you just kind of go in hot like, hey, this is what I mean, you got to you know take a time take the time to get to know each other. And once you build those relationships, you begin to build trust. And once you have that trust, you know it's important to maintain it. But once you have that trust and once you break through that wall, because understanding that there's a history of mistrust for just reason, you know historical reasons, displacement, gentrification, all of the things, right? So building those relationships, meeting people where they are,
00:22:38
Speaker
you know, and then working to implement programs that kind of, you know, balance what the community needs for what you could offer. Like a great example of that is the Indigo Wilson Work Program. One of the common concerns that we heard from a community member, especially like during the pandemic, post pandemic was like access and information for the job network, right? How do you apply for jobs now when things are virtual or you know how do we get places and so we were like okay let's do wheels to work. We provide folks free workforce development skills like resume building, networking, interview skills, how to do these things both and both in person and virtually and we also provide resources and information on bike share, how to use bike share, how to plan out your route
00:23:27
Speaker
how it can be affordable if the folks who complete the program, they get a six month free membership to Indigo to help you get back and forth so a job to to interviews, even transportation until you get that first check because I remember getting a job and still need to figure out how I'm going to get there until I get my first check, right? So this can be a tool to help bridge that gap.
00:23:49
Speaker
I'd like to stay there with you wafia on the conversation about financial sustainability.
Financial Sustainability in City Operations
00:23:56
Speaker
You've been talking about some programs and initiatives that aren't free on the user side, but they're definitely not on the city side. So Endigo operates under the umbrella of the city government, which brings its, I think, onset of challenge and opportunities. I'm quite curious to better understand how the public sector dynamics plays out in your work and how does this impact your ability to prioritize affordability That is a great question. So, you know, and this is the conversation that comes up often when people, you know, and iss ah it's attention of like, you know, how do you prioritize equity and how do you prioritize financial sustainability? I think the first thing is, you know, to be open and honest, right? Have these conversations, you know, like the city of Philadelphia are operating with bicycle transit systems.
00:24:45
Speaker
we communicate with each other. We talk almost every day. If there's something that we want to implement, we talk about, okay, how can we implement this and in a way that is affordable and a way that is that helps the system continue to be financially sustainable and a way that we can implement this program and keep it going, right? So for instance, I would love to put things out for free.
00:25:10
Speaker
but I only want to put it out for free if we can afford to sustain it and maintain it at no cost. I would rather charge, you know, $5. Obviously something that's still affordable, but I would rather charge $5 than not charge anything if I can make sure that we can maintain this program for years to come.
00:25:30
Speaker
So like having those conversations being very open and honest about it. I think it's the first step I would say also another step is your your contracts or whatever you have whatever you have in that contract those regulations is so important because there are some things that People can't afford and then there are some things that people can't afford when they're forced to do it but um You can know you You start to make things work when it's a requirement. And, you know, we've all seen examples of that. So, you know, it there's certain things, your contracts and things like that. But I do think there's also a point where you just need to be honest and ah understand that there is, you know, a financial aspect to it.
00:26:13
Speaker
bite share or share rec mobility in general, a lot of people assume that share rec mobility receives, receive the same type of subsidies that like other transit agencies receive. Like we don't get the same type of funding that that our you know transit system gets here.
00:26:31
Speaker
And, you know, the outside public doesn't understand it. So while they can do a lot of things or discount a lot of things, share market, but we can't, you know, we're relying on fair box recovery, sponsorship, advertising, grants, all of those things. And so, you know, we have to really balance a lot. You know, I always say when you're managing the share market mobility program, you have to be a lawyer. You got to know how to get these contracts. You got to be a accountant. You got to know how to do budgets.
00:27:00
Speaker
You know, all of these things, right? It's like, oh, so, so yeah, I say all that to say that, you know, it really is a balance. It really needs to be an open and honest conversation. And there are certain things that you do need to be required to make sure that once you implement them, you can do them in a sustainable way because you don't want to offer something to the public. Have people car have people begin to rely on it and then have to pull it back.
00:27:23
Speaker
Yeah, I think this tension has been in the core of this industry for for a long time and and Laura, I'm i'm quite curious to hear a bit more about what NAPSA thinks about that and if you have any other maybe example for members or best practices you've heard about.
00:27:37
Speaker
So I'm going to underscore all the things that Wafia said, like being upfront, being honest, community engagement to get people educated, and input. Input on programs is so, so, so critical.
00:27:54
Speaker
Because if you put, let's just use an example of like a past program that people can't access or it's just like too challenging or it's just not working for the the writer or potential writer, then that is potentially a wasted time resource. And while some might look at it and be like, well, you know we did we did't the thing,
00:28:17
Speaker
It's not enough. It's not enough to not be in you know constant development of of feedback and implementing that feedback to programs. I'll also say that, you know, underscoring the tension of financial sustainability and equity. So we know that ah equity programs and prioritizing equity, there is a financial piece of it. So I love what Ophia said about you know wanting to do something. And yeah, it would be great if everything was free. However, that's not sustainable. And so creating a balance to be able to have you know of successful programs,
00:28:59
Speaker
that are also sustainable in the the long term. And i I think that what we're starting to see, what we've been seeing over the last few years is we've seen more public funding support.
00:29:14
Speaker
for shared microability, and that could be local level, state level, and regional, provincial. ah There are some things that have been changing. And what our hope is that organizations, operators, communities will take that funding and start to implement it in prioritizing equity into their systems. And like I said before, just like weaving equity into the types of things.
00:29:41
Speaker
that they do. So if I were to share just like examples, best best practices, and it's probably reiterating some you know things that Adriel and what we have already talked about is communication, community engagement, and then also just like a feedback loop of what's working, what's not working,
00:30:00
Speaker
Because, yeah, if it's not working, or if it's not meeting the rider's needs, or if it's creating more barriers, then it's not going to work. And I can't state that enough, because creating more barriers wouldn't help people getting on bikes or scooters within cities.
00:30:19
Speaker
And yeah, I think you're right. i I do and would love to do dive a little bit more into a question of monitoring and what kind of metric can we use it in here, whether they're quite intuitive or quantitative. Before doing so though, Adriel, you're approaching this from a different angle being a nonprofit, but only if that's my question.
Measuring Impact as a Nonprofit
00:30:39
Speaker
In a world where some of the fonts are equally focused on measurable impacts, I'm just wondering how has it been for Mogo and what type of like narrative do you have to use to really balance expectation to affordability and equity? Yeah, I mean, you're right. As a ah specific mission-based nonprofit organization, all the same challenges are there. And I think to a to an extent, the expectations are maybe a little higher, strangely, because we're not connected to this. We're not a part of the city. We're not part of one of the dots, right? So I think that there there are people who, I think in their head, and this is really, really what Lauren and Wafia said, is there's probably an expectation or there's a a want of just, why can't I just get on this thing and go and take it? We have people who do, they try it in their own way by charge, you know, doing the chargebacks, which if folks don't know what that is, that's where, you know, so
00:31:33
Speaker
you charge something in your credit card, and then you later say that it was either a fraudulent charge or something else. So either way, your money gets refunded, people do that stuff, just really, I'm really painful, right? But I think that it's weird. I think the expectations of, I think of, so on the metric side, our expectation, I think it's more about ridership and usefulness, right? So it really becomes a thing of like, and people want to see, are people using this?
00:31:58
Speaker
where, you know, those types of things I think is our highest metric, but obviously like to a fiest point, you know, all this stuff takes money. And when I go in to talk to a sponsor or a potential sponsor or something like that, you know, it's, and to show them the value of ridership, right? And also speaking, you know, sort of a different language. You've got the city stations, so there's an advertising opportunity right there or a branding opportunity, right? So on and so on. So it's different or different expectations, I think, for different people.
00:32:28
Speaker
No one is asked yet, and except ah for people who are from my direct state code as more specific. Have we made a million dollars yet? I mean, which we have, but you know they're not asking those types of questions, which is really interesting. But I think people also too may, if they look at it as a transportation there's ah if They look at it as a like a one of the dots, right? I think for years, those have not been moneymakers. um In a lot of ways, if you look at some businesses, they're kind of lost leaders in a city government, and but they're there it's a public service, so they're invested in it. And I think that people think that that is what's happening with us, if they think that at all, right? So yeah, we don't know publicly, we don't get asked that question a lot. So I haven't had to do a lot of different things to meet those expectations or challenges.
00:33:14
Speaker
Well, I hope I answered that question. did No, you are. You are, essentially. As you said, it's um it's always a mix of, like, ah some quantitative elements that I think even report, like, NAPSA reports every year is also helping setting the stage or at the national level. And then there's the sort of, like, more implicit balance and conversation you also have to have on these topics. And I think these ones are just more complex and they're set into, or less digitalized than we wish they were. Probably not making your daily life easy every day, but it's also what gives you, I guess, a bit of flexibility.
00:33:49
Speaker
Yeah, I think you know i think it's it's it's really cool because but we we have a great partnership with the city. there's like Not being connected allows quite a bit more flexibility, I think, in a lot of different things. While I would like to have that steady funding source you know, a tax revenue or something like that. I'm also not necessarily, ah but I guess burden isn't the right word. I'm not restricted by some of the some of the things that, you know, we know that city agencies or governments have to, are restricted by. So it's it's really nice to to, that's the flexibility, that's the trade-off, right? Like I don't have that steady, you know, not being funded by the city, but I also have a lot of flexibility in
00:34:31
Speaker
where we can operate, what we can do, where we can, you know what I'm saying? Those types of things. It's a really interesting place to be. No, absolutely. And I think this is quite interesting to have both the three of you, but definitely seeing like the difference between a city model and a nonprofit model for that point.
Funding Sources for Micromobility Systems
00:34:46
Speaker
Laura, do you have anything else you'd like to add on funding?
00:34:50
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I wanted to just frame funding for for those who might be tuning in about where shared micro-obility funding comes from. So at some point, I think both Woofia and Adrielle talked about different sponsorship opportunities. But if we step back and take a look at where does the funding come from to employ shared micro-obility, like the the workforce and you know operations and actual equipment, it is a mix of different things. um So there's examples of sponsorship. Systems are supported by sponsorship. There are federal and state grants that are available and generally for capital equipment. Those usually can't be applied to operating costs. Advertising is something we see also. So you know maybe some advertising opportunity signage on you know stations. user revenue User revenue is also a funding stream. Some systems have private donors that might be you know an individual or some type of foundation that is supporting shared microability. City and transit funding is an example we see as well, so that's going to be a little more local funding than the federal state. We also historically have seen some venture capital investment into shared microability
00:36:08
Speaker
and then also certain types of private business funding. So just wanted to frame that because while we're getting into the conversation about the financial elements of equity in shared microabilities, I do want to acknowledge that the funding streams for shared microability is diverse. And sometimes it is a balance for organizations to be sustainable based on the variety of different funding opportunities that are or potentially that might not be available. I think this is a really important recap and it is true that we're seeing two, sort of like half, but we're not seeing and overseeing all the spectrum of potential and and opportunities and challenges that goes with ponding in North America. So thanks for that, Laura.
00:36:54
Speaker
As we look towards the horizon of shared micro mobility, well, it's very clear that there's not one path to equity and affordability. And I'm quite curious to better understand from each of you, what you see is the biggest obstacle, maybe in parole in this journey, moving forward.
Obstacles to Equity in Micromobility
00:37:10
Speaker
And one for you, I'd like to start with you.
00:37:12
Speaker
I would say the biggest obstacle with equity, I would say it's two things. One, we talked about it like the financial support to move these things along like every other. So there's so many other programs out here that receive support from the city.
00:37:31
Speaker
to help them you know implement equity focus work or just keep going in general, especially things like transportation, that's a need, right? So I will say that financial support and really have a shared micro mobility be seen as a form of public transportation because for some reason, many folks in larger entities do not see shared micro mobility be as that, but ah 100% is. So I would say the financial support and the other one is just like a real true commitment to this work. Like there's one thing to say, okay, we're going to focus on equity. There's one thing, you know, to have it in a your mission statement or it' to hire your diversity, equity, inclusion officer that we've seen, you know, we saw a lot of that happen and we saw a lot of it and we also see, saw a lot of that come and go, right?
00:38:24
Speaker
So it's important to really have a true commitment to it. And I feel like once, once, you know, appar operators, cities, organizations, nonprofits really have their true commitment to equity and not just words, but in action.
00:38:41
Speaker
And, you know, everyone is holding themselves accountable to implementing it. And, you know, not just putting something out. We talked earlier in this conversation about, you know, it's one thing to put out a low income pass option. But if people don't know about it, especially the people that need to know about it, know about it is useless. Or if it's not accessible or function, right? Like, did you test it out and see if people can actually like,
00:39:07
Speaker
Sign up for this program effectively and understand the sign-up process and understand what needs to be done to be a part of this program ah Effectively like that digital divide and other things are also a barrier. So Moving with intentionality and moving in a meaningful way when it comes to equity is very important in addition to that financial support to do these things effectively because people you know Not just Adriel and I, but we know so many people in and in this industry that have done so much on so little or were so little. Just imagine if these groups or organizations were able to get just a little bit of funding, right? Think of the impact that the industry and folks can have, right? I think these are super powerful messages that you you're giving us. Adriel, I really wonder if you want to add to it or build it in a different way.
00:39:56
Speaker
Yeah, I mean ill go a agree with everything my face says. And yeah, you would be shocked by what people are able to make happen out here with nothing. I mean, literally nothing. I think having this paradigm shift where you know there's this pushback on equity now and having a real concept of what that means and that it's not a bad word and that it's not a zero sum game, right? Like just because you get something doesn't mean someone else has to lose.
00:40:24
Speaker
right And I think one of the biggest challenges or obstacle is I think that broad belief right that this is, if you don't they think there are equity programs or whatever to make it equal, right to try to get it to be equal. And if it's not beneficial to you, if it doesn't apply to you, I guess is what I'm saying, then that's okay. You're not going to lose anything from that. and i think that you know especially when you go into neighborhoods or other other locations, other cities around here, convincing folks that that is beneficial. An example, I guess, is we've got some communities here in Metro Detroit, and then there's one that's literally sandwiched between two cities that we operate in.
00:41:07
Speaker
who, because they're a little wealthier, simply said, we don't want it, right? So totally misunderstanding what a bike share system is about, totally misunderstanding what the mission is. And I think really sort of misunderstanding that we when they hear about equity and they hear about accessibility and these these types of things, that they, again, I'll just say misunderstand.
00:41:30
Speaker
ah who though who who who Who that applies to and what those programs are for, right? So it's like, that's cute. You have money, you need you you know you're a square mile of a really wealthy neighborhood, but you've got a bus stop right there on your main road. And so that so someone understands the idea of best transit and getting people to do where they have to go.
00:41:50
Speaker
This is just an add-on to that and actually equalizes quite a few different things, right? So it's about providing more access, not taking it back, and coupling equity programs is just that we're trying to increase the access to this stuff, right? Folks who really can benefit from it. And you if you like it, that's great, but there's some people who actually could really, really, really benefit from it. And so, you know, whether you're commuting to work or trying to get to school or the doctor's office or wherever,
00:42:18
Speaker
youre Some felt folks may choose to to do bike share or use micro-mobility. Other folks don't have that choice. This is what they have. So I think really that's an obstacle I think to the future that we really need to address is is having sort of a mental paradigm shift and how we think about these things.
00:42:36
Speaker
Yeah, I think following that will follow the fund. The funds will follow that, right? Yeah, it's this consideration about ah almost like pukisavis we always go back to, isn't it? I feel like has been a notion that the industry has been trying to really like push forward because it also go back to Raffia what you were saying about the resilience, like we need to be able to go outside of the industry turmoil that we see we've seen in the past few years and sort of really helping cities and decision-makers considering shared micro-mobility as a long-standing option for the cities and for the communities, isn't it? Nara, I'm quite curious to hear a bit more what Napsai is thinking on this topic.
00:43:17
Speaker
So i i'll I'll again disagree and underscore Adriel and Waffia's point.
Challenges and Funding in Micromobility
00:43:22
Speaker
I think when NABSA takes a look at the challenges that our members and the industry are facing, number one is wealth.
00:43:33
Speaker
There's two of them. Either they can be numbered one or two, but the first one I'll share about is the so the money, the funding. It does take an investment. It can be an investment of time and personnel and also you know, actual money to have um successful equity programs. And that is, you know, the the time is also ah gets to the second point of prioritizing equity. yes If you are not prioritizing equity, if you're not incorporating into the things that you're doing, if it's not a lens that you're looking through, then
00:44:12
Speaker
it's it can make these things challenging and very siloed, and it can make it feel like a ah checkbox. So I think that those are those are two huge barriers that I think the industry is facing. And one of the things that NAVSA can support is, you know, both Adriel and Mafia talked about like doing so much with so little, and our hope, my hope, is that we can get people together to say,
00:44:41
Speaker
Look what we did. Look what, look what we pulled from. Here's some examples of some like things that we're doing. Here's things that worked. Here's things that didn't work. And that's what, that's what NAMSA does. We bring across, you know, nonprofit, for-profit and public agencies where it's a cross-sector organization that wants to bring everybody together to say, how can we move the needle forward for shared microability and Equity is one of those very important elements to us and we're hoping that
00:45:12
Speaker
on bringing people together, we can be helpful to make things happen and to help organizations, operators, and programs prioritize ah equity and advocate for funding that's gonna help support those programs. And I've been in conference of NEPSA, I've seen these conversations between cities that are sometimes very far away from each other, just hearing what works well in one area,
00:45:41
Speaker
what works well in the others, and hopefully building from it and building from like the knowledge that everyone is sharing with each other. So I think it's it's a really important and core element to that. Thanks for sharing that, Lara. So as we approach the end of our conversation, I guess I want to push us to think a little bit and to end indulg and indulge a little bit of a policy fantasy.
Equity-Focused Policy Wishes for Micromobility
00:46:01
Speaker
If you had a magic wand and you could implement one equity-focused policy across all shared microability systems tomorrow, what would it be? Lara, could we start with you?
00:46:13
Speaker
This is hard. It's hard. It's also exciting because it's kind of that, like, what could we do? Also, I mean, before I answer, acknowledging that shared microability is young. And I know, like, some people will be like, oh, yeah, well, we've seen bike share in cities for a decade.
00:46:34
Speaker
Decades not long in the transportation story. It's really, really not. So a magic wand. I think for me, it would be more available funding, more recognition of shared microability as a legitimate form of transportation.
00:46:52
Speaker
and prioritizing equitable access for that. So the policy change would share my ability as a form of transportation and recognize across the board, across all the industry, that that would be wonderful because I think it would be a domino effect of opportunities for programs across North America. Thanks, Laura. Adjo.
00:47:16
Speaker
If I had a magic wand, I would, I guess, give yeah the the funding piece so that people can really be in places that really need to have to have be served. You know, if I can snap my fingers, I mean, really, it's like I would magically have a station with X amount of bikes in every nook and cranny of the city, because it's it's a lot of those places tend to be underserved, under populated, so on and so on. And so again, these are typically the places where we find folks who actually can benefit from it the most.
00:47:46
Speaker
could benefit from, you know, an equitable bike share system. That would be my magic wand. It was from for, across the world or or the country to be able to get this into areas that really need it. Thanks, Adriel and Wafia.
00:48:01
Speaker
I would say one policy ne that I would implement across every system. For me, it would be adaptive. Honestly, I'm surprised that it isn't something that's just like required for shared micro mobility system or just any transportation option period. I think, you know, adaptive by shared programs are, you know, there's people with different abilities and disabilities and being able to provide transportation options for them is a need, right? And if it was required, and, you know, requires to be if implemented across every system, then like system that don't have it wouldn't have to be trying to figure out how to fight to get it. And those who are currently doing it will have even more resources to make it even better. So like, I know for me, I'm really looking forward to
00:48:51
Speaker
seeing everyone at the National Conference here in Philadelphia next month to talk to folks and learn more about how, you know, awesome adaptive programs like the one at MOGO and Portland others are implemented and you know really continue the conversation about how we can make this a universal system-wide policy or say as opposed to just like you can do it if you want, right? That just sounds so so weird to me. So yeah, might as well be adaptive. Thanks Raffia
00:49:22
Speaker
So it's time to wrap up and I want to thank you all of you for this very rich and nuanced discussion. Thank you for like shedding the light, not only on the mechanics of shared micromopanity, but also the very philosophy of how we built and govern our cities. To our listeners, the next time you see your shared bike or scooters on your street, I hope you'll see it not just as a vehicle, but a small part of the larger stories of urban transformation.
00:49:46
Speaker
And I am Anja. This has been a Voices of the Industry. Until next time, keep thinking, keep questioning, and above all, keep moving.