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#16 Inside Steer: Conversations with Experts Ep. 3 | Nicole Muise Kielkucki
35 Plays1 month ago
In this episode of Inside Steer: Conversations with Experts, Executive President Herbert Higginbotham speaks with Nicole Muise-Kielkucki, Vice President at Fourth Economy, about how equity-focused planning and inclusive engagement are shaping economic development strategies across the United States.
Drawing on her experience working with communities at the state, regional, and local level, Nicole shares how economic development planning is evolving as places confront complex challenges including housing affordability, workforce support, and energy costs. Their discussion explores how planners and policymakers can better understand the cultural, political, and economic context of each community to design strategies that support sustainable and inclusive growth.
Hear expert insights on:
- How housing, childcare, and other support systems are becoming central to economic development strategies.
- Why inclusive engagement is essential for planning communities’ long-term futures.
- Lessons from Pennsylvania’s first Statewide Housing Action Plan.
- How economic development challenges differ across rural communities, post-industrial cities, and fast-growing regions.
- Why balancing growth, identity, and opportunity is key to long-term community success.
From statewide housing strategies to local economic action plans, this conversation explores how thoughtful planning and collaboration can help communities navigate change while ensuring growth benefits both new and long-time residents.
🎧 Listen to Episode 3 of Inside Steer: Conversations with Experts — a series exploring ideas, people, and perspectives driving change across Steer’s North American business.
www.steergroup.com/insights/inside-steer-conversations-with-experts
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Episode 3
00:00:00
Speaker
State, local, urban, rural. Does anything change in the approach in terms of you know how you're you know attacking the problem sets um when you get to the community? Doing research on the community. What is the cultural, political environment? What is you know what are some big wins they've had? Are there any challenges that you have risen to the forefront that we need to be aware of?
00:00:23
Speaker
hey everyone. Welcome to Episode 3. This is Inside STEER Conversations with Experts. This is a series where we meet some of the people working at STEER and shaping thought and work across North America.
Meet Herb and Nicole
00:00:36
Speaker
Hi, I'm Herb Higginbotham. I'm Executive President of STEER in North America.
00:00:40
Speaker
We're a global consultancy that supports public and private organizations that deliver critical services and infrastructure that move and shape our communities. I'm coming from Los Angeles and really excited today to be joined by Nicole Muse-Kilkucky in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Hello, Nicole.
00:00:58
Speaker
Hi, Herb. um Nicole is part of our Fourth Economy team. Fourth Economy is a community economic development um arm of STEER North America. And in particular, Nicole's been leading in economic development work. She's going to talk a little bit about that with us today. um She works across regions um in the United States um
Nicole's Pittsburgh Experience
00:01:19
Speaker
and clients. Your clients, Nicole, telling me you're like public sector, private sector, nonprofit, sort of like anyone that's helping the community sort of move and shape the vision for the future. um So we're going to have a wide ranging conversation today about what's going on in the economic development space right now.
00:01:35
Speaker
um Nicole, how is everything in Pittsburgh today? Everything in Pittsburgh is great. It's always great to be in Pittsburgh. um It's my new adopted home. I've i've been here for almost 20 years.
00:01:47
Speaker
That's ah amazing. And um i i cannot let it the moment go past to say Pittsburgh is my hometown. um So i'm I'm really great to talk to you today. um Say hi to all the locals um when you get out of this session. Nicole, tell us a little bit about your role in fourth economy. you know, what are you up to when you go to work every day?
00:02:05
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. um so my role at STEER ah Fourth Economy, um you know, I lead a lot of our economic development strategy work. So I'd say, you know, the majority of the work that I do is is doing strategic planning with communities to really plan for their future.
Fourth Economy's Diverse Clientele
00:02:22
Speaker
um So like you mentioned, our our clients are very wide ranging. The majority are you know city, state, local, and regional governments, but we also have a healthy dose of nonprofits, and those could be you know chambers or EDOs, um but they could also be community foundations and others in in that kind of social services space. We also work with a few private clients, especially when we're doing economic development, um impact analysis, site planning, that sort of thing. So very varied in terms of size, scale, um type of client, and
Post-COVID Economic Challenges
00:03:00
Speaker
geography. We work all over the country, even though I'm based in Pittsburgh. I get to do a lot of Pennsylvania-based work, but I also get to do work outside of the state, which is really great.
00:03:09
Speaker
That's so cool. ah Nicole, what's keeping them up at night? And by by virtue of that, then what's keeping you up at night? I mean, with such a wide set of clients, are are the problems that you see, are they specific to different regions or different, you know, public or private? Like, like like like what what does it look like?
00:03:26
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. think, you know, probably five years ago or so ah for the economy, we were really, i think, at the forefront of talking about things like child care or housing um as key economic development and workforce needs. I think now, especially post-COVID, the world has caught up and now, you know, almost every single one of our clients um recognizes those those supports as integral to their workforce support system. So, you know, even though that's, you know, those are really persistent challenges, I think, you know, we're seeing problems. persistent challenges um ah in terms of, you know, energy costs. A lot of our clients, lot of our communities are worried about energy and and want to be part of a um high tech, you know, future an economy, um but are also very wary, I think rightly so about things like data centers. And, you know, so we're working with clients to help them, you know, really think through those things because they're complex issues. They're not black and white. You know, we wouldn't say they're they're
Balancing Equity in Economic Systems
00:04:34
Speaker
good or bad. they're They're clearly a mix and there's different ways to go about building these systems in a way that really benefits the community, that doesn't cause undue harm, but also is good for the economy and generates jobs and economic opportunities. So I think those are the types of things that ah come up a lot in our work. And I think one theme of of all of our work um here at Fourth Economy, and I think STEER really shares these values, You know, the thing that really, i think, keeps a lot of us up at night is um where we are ah in in sort of the larger, you know, political and cultural landscape. um We do a lot of equitable development work. um And, you know, we're in a moment right now where...
00:05:21
Speaker
um You know, there's there's um language and facts and data are not always, um you know, taken at at face value these days. So um we do a lot of work to sort of combat that and and really bring equity and inclusion to the top of our work. That's something that, um you know, we we've always done. We'll never stop. um And I think, you know, really being true to those values and those principles um and And having the integrity and and sort of fortitude to do so is is really important to us as a team. And it's also important to our clients and and where we want to go in the future.
00:05:58
Speaker
ah Thank you for sharing. um It it yeah does strike me. I mean, we say this all the time, but we're certainly in a moment where trying to um you know align the the political, the economic, et cetera, so that at a human level, um you know at a very basic human level, that we can provide um you know a type of service and ah and and a type of experience for people in their communities.
00:06:19
Speaker
It's got to be really hard. I'm I don't know. i'm I'm immediately struck rather than talking the abstract, Nicole, I would love to sort of hear. Can you can can you make it a little more real for us? Talk to us a little bit about maybe some of the communities, some of the projects where we're specifically able to, you know, step
Pennsylvania's Statewide Housing Plan
00:06:37
Speaker
in.
00:06:37
Speaker
And maybe, you know, if you've had some projects where we can sort of see the impacts of what those are like, what what does it look like? What does it look like to step in and work with you? Yeah, absolutely. um So I think one project that immediately comes to mind is our work ah with the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania working on their first ever statewide housing action plan. So this is 10 year housing action plan for the entire state of Pennsylvania. um This is the first of its kind, and Pennsylvania is really following in the footsteps of other state leaders. Michigan is is one who um had has a you know fully- ah implemented housing plan, and now they're on to their refresh. So um they're really leading, and it's great to see Pennsylvania, where I live, you know really stepping up to the plate and and taking that on. It's a huge endeavor.
00:07:31
Speaker
um We know housing is really complex, and as I said, it shows up in nearly all of our work. Even when we're we don't intend to talk about housing, it somehow shows up in in the conversations that we're having with our clients and their stakeholders. So um You know, in in in this particular project, I think um when the project is released, ah you know, you'll see things featured like, um you know, housing for all and making sure that um folks that um are are vulnerable in our communities have access to resources, resources. that we're looking at the the system holistically, you know from ah market market rate and and luxury markets all the way to you know subsidized and and um homes for our unhoused populations. So it really spans that gamut. And I'm, again, really proud of the work that Pennsylvania did. It was a joint project between DCED, which is our Department of Economic and Community Development,
00:08:32
Speaker
PHFA, which is our housing finance agency, and DHS, or Department of Human Services. So a really nice coalition of state agencies, I think, all working together. we were able to provide some really critical analysis about the state of housing. um Our analysis team did a great sort of, you know, this is the status of of where we are today in Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania is a very diverse state. You know, it's it's a big state. It takes six hours to drive from one end to the other. And you have big cities like Philly and Pittsburgh and smaller, smaller metros sprinkled it out ah throughout. And of course, in very rural areas. So complex to design a housing strategy that works across all of those, um you know, complex variables. ah But, you know, again, I think Pennsylvania
Housing's Role in Economic Development
00:09:22
Speaker
really realized for us to stay on top economically and compete with other states that are, um You know, they're vying for our talent and our businesses. um and And housing is such a critical component for people to be able to, you know, keep and attract talent, ah to to attract those businesses and employers, um and really, you know, drive well-being ah for longtime residents. I think that's a big fear we hear about a lot.
00:09:49
Speaker
um You know, we want to make sure that ah improvements benefit all, and that includes folks that have been here for a really long time. So, Being mindful of impacts of investment and and unintentional, you know, ah ah it consequences ah of you know, gentrification and that sort
York County's Economic Action Plan
00:10:06
Speaker
of thing. So um really rewarding project, really big, um you know, ah in terms of scale and size. And I think it's going to be really impactful in in Pennsylvania.
00:10:17
Speaker
Wow. I mean, there was so much in there. I mean, we could spend the rest of our segment ah talking about that. ah i was struck by a couple of things. So, you know, number one you know, as you know, my career sort of was built in transportation. And and and I always like like to say now and I go out and talk, you know, and hearing you talk about housing, you know, transportation networks and systems, right? Like so many of the communities, know,
00:10:43
Speaker
you know, ills and and and positives, right, sort of rolled down to the transportation network. And so, you know, I always encourage our transportation partners to talk with the housing groups in their communities, right, at every level, right, because how housing interacts and interfaces with jobs, interfaces with the the institutions, you know, the the schools, and you know, and other social institutions, how it interacts, and then you know, how the transportation network distributes us, how the, you know, utility networks are like all of those are so interconnected.
00:11:15
Speaker
i love that you're sort of starting, you know, with housing where it's all, um you know, sort of, you know, it starts in the home, right? And, um you know, I have to say sort of, you know, coming from, you know, you know, Pittsburgh and Pennsylvania to California, where housing and, and you know, housing prices are out of control. It's so hard to find any part of the state sometimes where you can feel like you can sort of get a handle on that. Can you please come work here next after you solve all of Pennsylvania's challenges?
00:11:42
Speaker
I love sunny California. I have some relatives out West. um You know, i like the seasons. I really like it. So, so maybe ah an extended you visit. itpa Projects. Yes. And then you can go back. Yeah. i can go back to, to, to Pennsylvania. um Anything else that you'd want to share um in terms of the work that you're doing?
00:12:02
Speaker
Yeah, I think um one other example, again, that, you know, comes to mind, this is a we've worked with York County, Pennsylvania. And sorry, my my examples are Pennsylvania. I do work in other places and other markets. But um these are yeah two two that I'm very proud of. um york York, Pennsylvania, it's in South Central PA. It's kind of equidistant from Philadelphia, Baltimore and Harrisburg, which is our state capital. So right on the border of Pennsylvania and Maryland, a lot of commuter flow, a lot of you know in and out migration in that kind of tri-state area.
00:12:36
Speaker
um And again, it's very similar to Pennsylvania as a whole. They're sort of a microcosm. They have the the dense city center, the city of York. and They also have some ah growing kind of ah you know suburban and exurban areas that um are are really diverse, are experiencing a lot of immigration, both internationally and sort of some natural population growth. So you have these pockets of um kind of like new culture and and new community that are are rapidly growing. And then you have, um you know, a lot of rural area and York County was built on agriculture. It's a very agricultural community. They're right next to Lancaster. They're they have a sibling rivalry there. Lancaster is the, you know arguably the agriculture capital of of our state. A lot of agricultural output coming coming out of that region. And all of that matters. you know You know, we can't ah plan for the urban areas without thinking about and suburban without thinking about how that growth might affect the rural areas. um You know, it's really important written to the community and, you know, to someone like me that we're um were doing both. And I think
00:13:42
Speaker
you know, when you do intentional planning, you can do both. You can sort of designate growth and, um you know, encourage density um and and really work with those assets and also work to protect and and preserve those natural places that, you know, drive whether it's, you know, agribusiness or outdoor recreation, you know, those those pristine resources, we want to keep them, um you know, ah well well taken care of and and and cherished for many generations.
Progress in York County
00:14:10
Speaker
So,
00:14:11
Speaker
um We started working with York in 2019, late 2019, on their um first economic ah development strategy, the York County Economic Action Plan. ah We started that, I think, in November. um Then fast forward to March 2020. We all know what happened then. um And we kind of had to pivot a little bit. We had we had started this you know year-long planning process, ah but you know everybody, you know we were all sort of in in crisis mode and and um sort of ah you know trying to figure out you know how do how do we deal with all the things that are happening around us. So um we quickly pivoted at that time since we were actively working with them.
00:14:49
Speaker
ah to produce a set of COVID-19 impact analyses, um looking at key data for things like small business and child care. You know, how might closures, how might this health emergency that we're all experiencing, how might it impact, you know, the people that are living and working in New York County from an economic um opportunity lens? You know, people can't necessarily get to school or to work. So, lot of impacts. um That was really ah helpful to them, i think, in that moment because they were able to also pivot and say, hey, this is what we're expecting to see. um They were actually able to divert resources to, um you know, emergency micro loans for small businesses in the community, for example. um as a direct result of that work. So really cool to be able to kind of serve our client in that moment with the things that they were dealing with. um the The economic action plan was adopted late in 2020. They've been at it for five years. We just wrapped up um a five-year progress report and update of that plan. They're halfway through the 10-year planning period. So they said, hey, can you can you help us you know, communicate, figure out and communicate um all the progress we've made and and what impacts we've made. So um we just wrapped that up with them. um And in the interim period, um over that five years, ah York County Economic Alliance was really able to sort of pick out and tease out some of the recommendations that ended up, um you know, being featured in the plan. um and we were able to help them with a ah few other efforts. So, um you know, I think in 2020,
00:16:29
Speaker
22 or 23, we did a housing plan for York County. We, at some point during that five-year period, we also did ah an arts and culture outdoor asset mapping and impact report for the community. and They used that to really advocate for a a sustainable public funding source um for those kind of arts and cultural and outdoor assets. um So we've worked with York County on a number of projects and it's really cool. We also did ah a transportation equity project study with them in their United Way. um You know, so it was really great to see them sort of, ah you know, really zeroing in on on these these recommendations. You know, a lot of times we work with clients and communities. And once we finish our planning process, they're sort of on their own and and they really have to take what what we recommend and and run with it. um And your county was fully committed and they were able to pick out those high impact pieces and um you know, kind of phase it, where can we get funding for what pieces when, um and make a lot of progress in those in those five
Rural vs Urban Strategies in Pennsylvania
00:17:32
Speaker
years. So very rewarding, very impactful. And again, the the value of working with a longtime client that, you know, knows us and knows our work. um And we enjoy working with them and vice versa. It's, um it's just a great relationship to have.
00:17:46
Speaker
yeah and And the fact that you got to sort of stay and stick around and as consultants, one of the you know one of the joys is working on a lot of different things, but sometimes the pain is I have to give you i give you a plan and i and I go away. It sounds like you got the best of that experience and that you got to keep sort of moving around the community in different aspects as you're helping.
00:18:03
Speaker
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Oh, that's fantastic. um When you tell me, you know, that's a local level, you talked about state level, you know, state, local, urban, rural.
00:18:15
Speaker
Does anything change in the approach in terms of, you know, how you're you know attacking the problem sets um when you get to the community? Yeah, it it definitely requires um a little bit of, um you know, like code switching and, and and ah you know, changing your approach a little bit. I think, um you know, we're always, um you know, one of the first things we do, ah even when we're submitting a proposal is, you know, look, you know, doing research on the community. What is the you know, um cultural, political environment? What is, you know, what are some big wins they've had? Are there any challenges that are, you know have risen to the forefront that we need to be aware of? You know, so I think taking that intelligence and then working with the client, um you know, we ask them those questions as well when we start the process. You know, what should we know about? Are there, have there been planning processes recently that worked well and why? And um if not, have you had some that failed? And why do you think that happened? So, um We're always really intentional, I think, about how we're gathering information. um But and, you know, not to overgeneralize, because i you know I don't like to um you know give the impression that all rural communities are the same. I think that's a ah common pitfall. And same thing, of course, with urban environments as well. um Every place is unique, but there are through lines that we see. So um when we're working in more rural areas in particular, and this goes for, you know, just low resource um communities and community groups, um we're very mindful of capacity. A lot of times in rural communities, for example, ah you're working with your client who is the town or borough manager, and they're also the head of the chamber, and they also own a business on Main Street. Oh, and they also volunteer for their kids' PTA and run the Christmas
Retaining and Attracting Residents
00:20:01
Speaker
parade. So really mindful of that fit that sort of thing in um rural communities. But even in um you so ah you know one program that we are really proud of, another long-time project is here in Allegheny County in Pennsylvania.
00:20:17
Speaker
um where where where Pittsburgh is, and we we've been working with the Allegheny County for Economic Development, ah ah Community Economic Development for on their business district revitalization program. And that focuses on main streets outside of the city center. And so again, you have these um smaller communities. Sometimes they're 2,000, 3,000, 4,000 people um you know to Pittsburgh's 300,000. And they're resource constraint, but they have a really nice historic main street that was bustling at the you know, the peak of the industrial ah era here in Pittsburgh. And, you know, they've they've since, you know, experienced population loss and they're trying to figure out what is our next thing? What is our identity? What's going to drive us forward as a community? And how do we keep people here? I mean, we hear that in small places, rural places. We hear that all over the places. How do we keep our kids here? Or once they've moved away, how do we get them back? You know, so. I'm not my dad.
00:21:15
Speaker
yeah Of course. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. And you hope to see that boomerang, but, you know, something's got to draw them back. And I think that's where it goes back to the housing conversation. um Of course, there has to be job opportunities. But, um you know, again, people are much more mobile um with remote work. You know, there's there's opportunities for folks to, you know, live in that rural community or that um picturesque small town outside of a big city, um work remotely for a larger company and and still contribute to the local economy.
Nicole's Passion and Background
00:21:46
Speaker
So, um So that's, you know that's one, I think, generalization. I think um in some of our um kind of larger markets, you know, I think there's a differentiation between big cities that are growing and and big, you know, suburban areas that are growing and and those that are still big cities but are in decline. So, you know, are staping off decline. So we do a lot of work in the Rust Belt. um And again, these are you know post-industrial ah you know communities and a lot of manufacturing. um
00:22:17
Speaker
you know and And there we're looking at how do we how do we pivot? um how do we How do we adopt advanced manufacturing and those things that are going to make this community competitive in the future? You know, the problems in those communities are much different than the problems in a growing suburb. For example, you know, we've've we've worked outside of Atlanta a fair bit, um again, on housing and economic development. And they're growing rapidly, you know, and so their challenges are much more tied to um traffic and and safety and, um you know, again, kind of ah establishing an identity that they don't want to lose as they grow. um So, ah you know, definitely some differences and some nuances. And it's I think that's that that for variety is what keeps me um keeps me engaged and keeps me excited about the work is you have to think critically. no two clients are the same and every day is different. And that's both challenging and fun. I love that. And on that note, for you know the last part of our our segment, Nicole, maybe let let's let's talk about you for a little bit. how did How did you get into this? Like, what brought you to Fourth Economy? What what really got you into this field of work?
00:23:29
Speaker
Yeah. um So i I came to Fourth Economy. um my My previous job was um in economic development, but from the tech startup innovation venture space. um So I, after grad school at Chatham University here in Pittsburgh, um I ah started working at a ah regional startup incubator here in the Pittsburgh region. We serve southwestern PA, so a 10-county region. um And there um I ran an accelerator program for social enterprise companies. We also had ah a funding program for immigrant and minority entrepreneurs. And we also had a food and farm business funding program, which is ah ah a passion area of mine. My graduate degree from Chatham is in food studies from the School of Sustainability there. so Wow. o
00:24:21
Speaker
Food runs deep in my family. My my my grandfather, my moms on my mom's side, we're we're French Canadians. So we have that in our blood. And and my grandfather was a chef and and he's taught all of us how to cook. So um you know so so really, really interesting, I think, um from an economic lens, you know that that work in grad school is really focused on, again, systems, how it's the food system work and break down, how do we make improvements in supply chains and um you know, in in expand markets. um So that's kind of how I got into the startup space is is working with some small food companies here in Pittsburgh in grad school, really kind of falling in love with um entrepreneurship. um You know, I i think of ah myself and Fourth Economy as very entrepreneurial. um You know, it's it's it's that ability to see a problem, um kind of diagnose it,
00:25:14
Speaker
iterate, build a solution, iterate again, and convince other people to come along. You know, that's kind of the entrepreneurial journey. um So that work was really rewarding. i got to help, you know, entrepreneurs one-on-one a lot of coaching and, um ah you know, business model development, helping them develop their ideas. We were pre-seed investment. So the very, very earliest stage, um you know, typically outside of like a friends and family investment that someone might, you know, here's a couple grand, you know, get good. ahead yes I'm tired of you talking about this. Just go do it. So, one seed investment, which was very unique at the time in the Pittsburgh startup space, was Again, you know we were my passion in that work was was helping triple bottom line companies. So in all of those programs that I mentioned, um we were working with businesses that had a positive impact um on people or the environment and or the environment, as well as you know being profit focused and um you know attracting an ROI. So for-profit companies that have a social good component. um And I think you know through that work, I really... you know, again, being embedded in that community, really learn how um the entrepreneurial ecosystem functions. You know, we do we do ecosystem development work at Fourth Economy, and it's really fun to kind of, you you know, look back at my notes and say, you know, do do you have all these elements? This is what it takes to have a really strong, high-functioning entrepreneurial ecosystem, you know, funding at all at all levels and um kind of wraparound supports, you
00:26:55
Speaker
So, ah you know, I think that's that's the lens that I came to fourth economy with. um And again, I think, you know, steer really shares this is is is, you know, looking at systems, understanding how do they work or not work. um And really, i think, you know, what what is is really rewarding for me is it's that ability to empower people to take control of their economic future and and really try
Empowering Communities Economically
00:27:22
Speaker
to change. and And I think that goes back to the entrepreneurial piece of it. It's, um you know, it's it's not being planned for or upon. It's it's planning with the community. ah And that's what really inspires me about the work here at at Fourth Economy.
00:27:37
Speaker
I love that, Nicole. um Nicole, we're just about out of time. Any parting thoughts for our audience before we sign off for today? um Sure. yeah I think, um you know, just kind of returning to where we started a little bit, I think, um you know, it's it's been really great to see, I think, over the past, um you know, several years, this this emerging focus on um and and really prioritizing things like equitable development, um you know, prioritizing and valuing inclusive engagement, know,
00:28:08
Speaker
um you know, bringing people into conversations about their community um that oftentimes haven't been invited to to conversations, you know, really doing deep engagement with community members that have a variety of viewpoints. I think that's such an important piece of what we do. um and again, I think we're seeing some of that come under attack. And, it and you know, I think it is a little bit troubling. um But, you know, I think you know, it's, it's, it makes sense when you think about, um you know, this is, this is a moment of backlash because the economic system has historically failed so many people. And so I think if you have that in mind, and I try to remember that, you know, it's, it's, it's okay, let's acknowledge that. um And let's really use that to ah encourage that, that inclusive development. um You know, it really, i you know, I don't think the economy can, can work if it if it only benefits a few people. So, um you know, I think getting folks to realize, you know, you you have to be entrepreneurial and yeah you have to do it yourself, but you also um have partners at the table that can help you make change. You know, wealth building and social well-being don't have to be at odds. And I think that, again, is a is a value that we take forward, even even in these times when um we know we know a lot of environments have have kind
Bridging Gaps for Equitable Development
00:29:30
Speaker
of changed. So, So yeah, I think that's something that i i I can maybe end on and and just, um you know, just mention that that's that's kind of what drives me and and I think a lot of us here at Ford's Economy.
00:29:42
Speaker
um Thank you, Nicole, so much. um it If you and our our colleagues at Fourth Economy and STEER um ah are able to bridge those gaps in on our communities and our regions, um my goodness, I mean, think what we could all do um working from that same playbook. um I really appreciate the time um that you gave today um to talk. um And to all of our audience, um thank you for listening. This has been um Episode 3 of Inside STEER, Conversations with Experts. and
00:30:13
Speaker
Hope that wherever you're at, that you're able to make a difference in the world today. Take care, everyone.