Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Natural Wine - Gabriella - The Wine About
86 Plays4 years ago
Disclaimer: This episode had a few technical difficulties - I’m pretty sure my microphone disconnected itself half way through and there is a little delay here and there, but it’s so jam-packed full of wine chats that you’ll hardly notice it.
On the tenth episode (how are we at 10 already?!) of Fine Vines and Wine, I’m joined by Gabriella; part time sommelier in Sydney and the face and brains behind the instagram account @thewineabout - https://www.instagram.com/thewineabout/.
We delve really really deep into the topic of natural wines and their defects, discuss our dwindling bank accounts because of all the wines we want to try and that one time Gaby decided to make her own wine in the backroom of a bottle shop.
We talk all about Gaby’s love of Gamay, don’t worry I have now tried a Gamay from Beaujolais and I am a big fan, as well as all of the different packaging alternatives that wine brands are starting to use.
So grab a glass of wine on this slightly chilly Saturday night, snuggle up on the couch and enjoy.
Don’t forget to head to my instagram page - https://instagram.com/finevinesandwine?igshid=47jai77w8uh8 - for a list of all of the wines mentioned in this episode.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction & Acknowledgments
00:00:07
Speaker
Hi everyone and welcome to Fine Vines and Wine.
00:00:10
Speaker
I'm your host Karis Pixie and each week I'll be giving you all an insight into the behind the scenes of our favourite beverage, wine.
00:00:18
Speaker
I'd love for you to use this podcast platform as a winery guide for your next weekend away.
00:00:23
Speaker
exploring everything Australia has to offer.
00:00:26
Speaker
You never know, you might discover a new spot or two to visit.
00:00:30
Speaker
I acknowledge the Cadigal and the Wollamadeagle peoples, traditional custodians of the land that we recorded today's podcast episode on.
00:00:38
Speaker
I pay my respects to the elders past, present and emerging, for they hold the memories, the traditions, the culture and hopes of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples across the nation.
Meet Gabriella: A Sommelier's Journey
00:00:49
Speaker
On this episode of Fine Vines and Wine, I'm joined by Gabriella, part-time sommelier in Sydney and the creator of the amazing Instagram account, The Wine About.
00:00:59
Speaker
Welcome and thank you for joining me today.
00:01:01
Speaker
How's the beginning of your week been?
00:01:03
Speaker
Thanks for having me.
00:01:04
Speaker
The beginning of the week, it's been pretty good.
00:01:06
Speaker
I had a bit of a wine dinner last night, so not feeling super fresh, but I will push through.
00:01:13
Speaker
But yeah, it's been a good week, just starting, got a few days at work ahead of me.
00:01:17
Speaker
And hopefully lots of study.
00:01:19
Speaker
Oh, amazing.
00:01:20
Speaker
Where was the wine dinner at?
00:01:22
Speaker
At Bebo in Double Bay.
00:01:24
Speaker
So Luella Matthews, she's the head son there.
00:01:26
Speaker
She just does an amazing job.
00:01:28
Speaker
The food is super delicious.
00:01:30
Speaker
Yeah, I've heard it's meant to be really good there.
00:01:33
Speaker
Yeah, it's really good.
00:01:33
Speaker
I'd say it's probably one of my favourite little wine bars in Sydney.
00:01:36
Speaker
Okay, awesome.
00:01:37
Speaker
I'll have to check it out.
00:01:39
Speaker
So I'm going to jump straight into some questions.
00:01:42
Speaker
How long have you been working in wine and why the wine industry?
00:01:46
Speaker
So I've been working in wine now for about six years.
00:01:51
Speaker
I'd say I'm still probably working in wine just because of the amazing people that I've met along the way.
00:01:56
Speaker
The reason why is my train of thought about getting out of hospitality is
00:02:01
Speaker
six or seven years ago when I was managing a few pubs and doing the events there.
00:02:07
Speaker
I was just a little bit tired and I was like, how can I get out of hospitality?
00:02:10
Speaker
Let's study wine, which isn't really my finest idea because they're so entangled.
00:02:16
Speaker
But I didn't really set out to be a SOM and work in a restaurant.
00:02:20
Speaker
I was thinking more wine education, hence the Instagram marketing or just anything that had more family-friendly hours, just working in hospitality for five years.
00:02:31
Speaker
you just miss out on so many events, like birthdays, engagement parties, you just can't get the nights off.
00:02:38
Speaker
So I was a little bit tired of that.
00:02:40
Speaker
So I kind of remember, to be honest, what sparked the whole thing of Let's Study Wine.
00:02:44
Speaker
But I kind of just went in full force, started doing all those Wessec courses, the Wine Scholar Guild, French Wine Scholar.
00:02:54
Speaker
Even at the time, Sydney Wine Academy had this similia course they were offering, just focusing on Australian wines and
00:03:01
Speaker
I did that too.
00:03:02
Speaker
I just honestly did course after course after course because when you start starting wine, you really, you can't stop, right?
00:03:09
Speaker
There's just so much to learn.
00:03:11
Speaker
So many countries, so many regions.
00:03:14
Speaker
And I started off working in customer service at the Wine Society, which is no longer the Wine Society.
00:03:20
Speaker
I can't remember what they've changed their name to, but it was just really just taking inbound calls and helping people.
00:03:28
Speaker
locate their missing wine and all that kind of stuff.
00:03:31
Speaker
But it was a great place and a great introduction to work and we got to do lots of tastings.
Promoting Small Wineries & Wine Technology
00:03:36
Speaker
But I guess the reason I'm still working here in the wine industry is because of the people and I love meeting the winemakers and kind of being able to be their storyteller in a way through my Instagram and connecting those small producers with people who love wine and kind of just being their cheerleader, I guess.
00:03:56
Speaker
promoting them because these smaller wine producers, they don't have marketing budgets like the big guys do.
00:04:02
Speaker
You know, I completely agree with that.
00:04:04
Speaker
Like I feel it's so hard for smaller wineries who don't have budget to really get their wines out there because I feel like when someone goes to a bottle shop, they're either going to go for something they know or something, I guess, if someone recommends something, they'll pick it, but they normally pick what they know and what they love.
00:04:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:24
Speaker
I see it all the time because I work in retail.
00:04:26
Speaker
You often just have the people walk in
00:04:28
Speaker
They know a winery where just like the big guys like, oh, Torbrek, okay, I'll get that because I know what it is.
00:04:33
Speaker
And they're still relatively small, but I'm trying to push those little small family winemakers.
00:04:39
Speaker
And if people kind of give me a chance and I just jump on their Vivina app, I can certainly point them in the right direction.
00:04:46
Speaker
Oh, my God.
00:04:47
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:04:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:48
Speaker
I feel once someone knows what they like, they do really stick with that.
00:04:52
Speaker
So it's so nice to sort of branch out a little bit.
00:04:55
Speaker
Completely.
00:04:56
Speaker
And then people discover like certain varieties they wouldn't usually go towards and they come back and they're super happy and excited to find more.
00:05:04
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:05:05
Speaker
I've actually never heard of that app.
00:05:06
Speaker
What is it?
00:05:07
Speaker
Vino.
00:05:09
Speaker
So you scan a wine label and then it comes up with a score.
00:05:13
Speaker
So whatever it is, 3.9, 4.2.
00:05:16
Speaker
But that score is what other people.
00:05:18
Speaker
So say you have a bottle of, I don't know, I've just got this bottle here, Sammy Odi Shiraz.
00:05:22
Speaker
You take a picture of it.
00:05:24
Speaker
You put it on Vivino and then you write your own review and you give it a score out of five.
00:05:29
Speaker
And then so say if like thousands of people do it, it has like an average score of 4.1.
00:05:34
Speaker
And people kind of base their wine buying sometimes off that.
00:05:38
Speaker
I've never actually used the app.
00:05:39
Speaker
I'm pretty sure that's how it works.
00:05:41
Speaker
Don't quote me.
00:05:42
Speaker
But yeah, you go into a wine shop or anywhere, you scan the label and it comes up with reviews and a score.
00:05:49
Speaker
So it's like a community-based scoring app for wines.
00:05:53
Speaker
Okay, okay, that makes sense.
00:05:57
Speaker
And then people go off those reviews even if they're not experts.
00:06:01
Speaker
Yeah, which I like.
00:06:02
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:06:03
Speaker
I've typed in wines to Vivino before, like some natural wines just to see if it's supernatural and faulty and whatnot.
00:06:11
Speaker
I like it for that.
00:06:13
Speaker
But I wouldn't stand in a wine store and purchase a wine off Vivino.
00:06:17
Speaker
I would more ask the people who are working in the shop because they've tried the wines and they've got a better understanding.
00:06:24
Speaker
I don't know.
00:06:24
Speaker
It's good and it's evil at the same time.
00:06:26
Speaker
Oh
Life at Best Cellars
00:06:28
Speaker
my God.
00:06:28
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:06:29
Speaker
No, if I was going to a bottle store, I definitely wouldn't sit on an app.
00:06:32
Speaker
I'd either do it before I went.
00:06:36
Speaker
It's funny though.
00:06:36
Speaker
I make a joke about it for customers.
00:06:39
Speaker
I see them on the app.
00:06:40
Speaker
I'm like, Ooh, how, what's the score on that wine?
00:06:43
Speaker
Do you want some help?
00:06:45
Speaker
Oh my God, that's so funny.
00:06:48
Speaker
Which bottle shop do you work?
00:06:50
Speaker
At the moment, I work at Best Cellars in Darlinghurst on Crown Street.
00:06:54
Speaker
I started retail wine life at Annandale Cellars and that is such a good little wine shop.
00:07:00
Speaker
I still go back there like every month or so.
00:07:02
Speaker
They just have such an amazing range of like interesting natural wines and
00:07:09
Speaker
No, I definitely prefer the smaller bottle shops.
00:07:11
Speaker
I feel like they definitely have like so many different ones to like your standard, your standard like well-known brands.
00:07:18
Speaker
Yeah, and there's always going to be someone pretty knowledgeable at those shops as well who can kind of guide you to the right direction.
00:07:24
Speaker
What does a typical, I've added in an extra question, sorry.
00:07:28
Speaker
What does a typical day look like for you when you're working at bestsellers?
00:07:32
Speaker
It can vary.
00:07:33
Speaker
It depends like how many
00:07:35
Speaker
How many wine deliveries do we have showing up?
00:07:37
Speaker
Like it is not a glamorous job.
00:07:40
Speaker
People might think I'm just like standing around tasting wine all day, but that is not the case.
00:07:45
Speaker
Yeah, it's a wine store.
00:07:46
Speaker
So after all, we're getting heavy boxes of wine delivered and cases and cases and cases of beer.
00:07:52
Speaker
So you can spend hours of the day just playing Tetris with wine boxes, stocking up.
00:07:59
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:08:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:01
Speaker
When I worked at Annandale, we would have pallets of beer arrived.
00:08:05
Speaker
And I would literally spend like hours just like carrying cases of beer upstairs and putting them into the cool room.
00:08:12
Speaker
So it's not all glamorous.
00:08:13
Speaker
I mean, and then you do get to try some nice wines and stuff like that.
00:08:17
Speaker
But there's a lot of hard work and sweat that goes into working in retail.
00:08:22
Speaker
Like, yeah, wine is not liked.
00:08:24
Speaker
Often these wine stores as well have very limited storage space.
00:08:28
Speaker
So it's like a constant like game of Tetris trying to figure out where to stack this box and where to put that and
00:08:35
Speaker
Yeah, fun times.
00:08:37
Speaker
But on the plus side, we get to try lots of wine and we get to speak to, you know, people that are passionate about wine because they're the kind of people that are really coming into those kinds of stores.
00:08:46
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:08:47
Speaker
That would be amazing.
00:08:48
Speaker
I also spend a lot of time at work just Googling new wines that come into the shop because I can't try every wine.
00:08:55
Speaker
I mean, I don't have the budget for that.
00:08:57
Speaker
So I often try and do a lot of research on new products and stuff and new producers that we get in just
00:09:03
Speaker
So if people do ask me, I can tell them what I know.
00:09:06
Speaker
Do you pick the wines that come into the store?
00:09:08
Speaker
Not so much are best sellers, but when I was managing wine culture in Roseville Chase, I did.
00:09:15
Speaker
And I was working there with two other part-time guys.
00:09:19
Speaker
And I always tried to make it like a collective thing, that we all try the wines and we all agree that we should get the wines in.
00:09:26
Speaker
The interesting thing about that shop is...
00:09:29
Speaker
kind of has like a completely different customer base in a way there's a lot of kind of big Shiraz drinkers out there so you kind of have to alter your wine buying a little bit as opposed to say a previous wine culture I worked at Annandale and there's
00:09:46
Speaker
a much younger demographic who are a little bit more, can I say this, I don't know, open-minded or keen to try alternative styles of wine.
00:09:54
Speaker
Then moving to wine culture, people were a little bit more conservative with their wine choices.
00:09:59
Speaker
So you always have to kind of keep the, I guess, the demographic in mind when making wine buying purchases.
00:10:06
Speaker
And then at bestsellers, it's kind of like a mix of both clientele.
00:10:10
Speaker
You're people who want classic wines, but I just think with
00:10:13
Speaker
Natural wine, it's not slowing down.
00:10:15
Speaker
It's growing and growing and growing.
00:10:17
Speaker
People also want that kind of style.
Wine Demographics & Natural Wine Debate
00:10:20
Speaker
And just being in the city, you have that kind of younger crowd keen to try some stuff.
00:10:25
Speaker
Especially in Darlinghurst as well.
00:10:27
Speaker
I find Darlinghurst is quite a cool and up-and-coming area.
00:10:31
Speaker
So I feel like they would want to try different stuff as well.
00:10:34
Speaker
Yeah, where Roseville Chase, it's a lot of families, a lot of older generation.
00:10:40
Speaker
And there's nothing wrong with people wanting to drink those styles of wine.
00:10:44
Speaker
And you just have to cater to what your customers want.
00:10:47
Speaker
And like I did put wines that I love and a few natural wines or skin contact wines.
00:10:53
Speaker
And they did sell, but you just can't make that majority of the stock.
00:10:57
Speaker
What are your thoughts on natural wines?
00:11:00
Speaker
How much time do we have?
00:11:01
Speaker
You do a lot about it on your Instagram.
00:11:02
Speaker
How much time do we have?
00:11:04
Speaker
Because this is, I could honestly just go on and on.
00:11:07
Speaker
I have so many thoughts.
00:11:09
Speaker
Some of my thoughts probably contradict some of my other thoughts.
00:11:11
Speaker
It's just, so I think we should start by kind of defining what natural wine is.
00:11:17
Speaker
And I think the French have done a pretty good
00:11:19
Speaker
good example, like they've done it pretty well.
00:11:21
Speaker
The French love wine laws and regulating stuff.
00:11:24
Speaker
So they created like a framework for this kind of type of wine.
00:11:28
Speaker
So when a consumer opens a bottle of so-called natural wine, the consumer has a little bit of protection.
00:11:34
Speaker
However, it still doesn't guarantee the wine is going to be fault-free.
00:11:38
Speaker
But there's a few things that you need to do to be certified natural wine in France.
00:11:42
Speaker
The first being certified organic grapes, which I think is really important if you're going to claim your wine is natural.
00:11:48
Speaker
Handpicking.
00:11:50
Speaker
Fermented with native yeast.
00:11:52
Speaker
So a lot of commercial wines are adding packet yeast.
00:11:56
Speaker
So here there's none of that.
00:11:58
Speaker
And it's just the yeast that are present on the grapes.
00:12:00
Speaker
And then there's kind of several modern winemaking techniques that are not allowed to be used, like reverse osmosis, filtration and flash pasteurization, and also the sulfur.
00:12:16
Speaker
So the sulfur can only be added variety to bottlings.
00:12:20
Speaker
not during the winemaking, and it has to be less than 30 milligrams.
00:12:25
Speaker
Okay.
00:12:26
Speaker
I'm pretty sure.
00:12:26
Speaker
So a lot.
00:12:27
Speaker
But they also have another classification for a sulfur-free natural wine.
00:12:32
Speaker
So that's like a rough idea of what natural wine is, I guess.
00:12:35
Speaker
And I think that's a good guide.
00:12:38
Speaker
And when I read that, though, there are many, many wines claiming to be natural on the shelves in Sydney.
00:12:45
Speaker
but are not.
00:12:46
Speaker
First of all, a lot of those wines, if those funky labels and like cloudy wine, they're not made with organic grapes, but they have a cool label.
00:12:55
Speaker
So I feel like consumers instantly perceive them to be a natural wine.
00:13:00
Speaker
And I think a lot of winemakers are maybe just jumping on the bandwagon.
00:13:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:06
Speaker
I just, for me, it has to be organic to begin with.
00:13:09
Speaker
Like you can't go buying cheap conventional grapes and calling it natural.
00:13:15
Speaker
But in saying that, a lot of my favorite producers do fall into that natural category.
00:13:21
Speaker
I don't hate natural eye.
00:13:22
Speaker
I know some people send me DMs and they ask why I hate it.
00:13:25
Speaker
I'm like, I don't, guys.
00:13:26
Speaker
Like, pay attention to all the content.
00:13:28
Speaker
I'm just calling out.
00:13:30
Speaker
faulty natural wine.
00:13:32
Speaker
And I even hate the term natural wine because it implies that wines and winemakers who aren't claiming their wines to be natural are somehow unnatural.
00:13:41
Speaker
And some of the best natural wines are, in my opinion, by those winemakers who are just a little bit more, I like clean natural wines.
00:13:50
Speaker
Like I have a little bit of tolerance for faults in wine, just like a little bit of bread I can tolerate, like a little bit of VA I can handle if it's not taking away from the fruit.
00:14:00
Speaker
I mean, I would prefer it.
00:14:02
Speaker
Those faults weren't there, but can handle a little bit.
00:14:05
Speaker
But the thing with faults is, like, some people enjoy the flavours that the faults give, and why am I to say that they can't enjoy those flavours of wine?
00:14:15
Speaker
So then I think, like, sometimes are faults now becoming desired flavours amongst natural wine drinkers?
00:14:22
Speaker
And if they're, like, maybe they're not desired flavours, but they're becoming accepted.
00:14:26
Speaker
And I'm a little bit on the fence about that because, like,
00:14:29
Speaker
I can't tell people what to drink and what to like.
00:14:31
Speaker
But on the other side, I'm thinking, is it a good thing that the winemakers releasing wines that are faulty?
00:14:39
Speaker
I don't know.
00:14:40
Speaker
I have too many deep thoughts about this.
00:14:42
Speaker
This keeps me up at night.
00:14:44
Speaker
There are a few great natural Australian producers.
00:14:47
Speaker
Sorenberg, for one, in Beechworth.
00:14:49
Speaker
That's all biodynamics.
00:14:50
Speaker
A lot of people wouldn't even think of his wines as natural.
00:14:53
Speaker
They're super well made.
00:14:55
Speaker
He must do a lot of cold settling because his wines aren't hazy and cloudy.
00:15:00
Speaker
Owen Latter is another one who's doing some really cool stuff.
00:15:04
Speaker
He's also got a few no added sulfur wines.
00:15:08
Speaker
I think Ravensworth and Canberra is doing a great job, but I don't know if all of his grapes are certified organic.
00:15:15
Speaker
Dorma Lona, Jo Perry, she's great.
00:15:17
Speaker
And WA, she's making really good natural wines.
00:15:21
Speaker
that are nice and clean.
00:15:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:22
Speaker
I mean, like I used to really like them and I was drinking them like all the time.
00:15:27
Speaker
And then I had one bottle that I just hated and I haven't drank one since.
00:15:32
Speaker
It's kind of put me off a little bit.
00:15:35
Speaker
It was just, I took it to a party and I was like, yes, this is amazing.
00:15:39
Speaker
This is going to be great.
00:15:40
Speaker
And the bottle like exploded everywhere for starters.
00:15:42
Speaker
So that was like first number thing.
00:15:44
Speaker
And then I started drinking it and I was like, this is horrible.
00:15:47
Speaker
And this is all I have to drink.
00:15:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:50
Speaker
And it's interesting because I posted a question just yesterday on my Instagram asking if us as consumers should be able to return wines like that, that are undrinkable.
00:16:01
Speaker
And I was shocked about the amount of people who said, no, it's the risk of natural wine.
00:16:06
Speaker
But what?
00:16:07
Speaker
So if I buy something, a bottle of wine, the bottle of wine, the intention is for it to be consumed.
00:16:14
Speaker
And if it is undrinkable, surely it's not, you know, it's not fit for consumption and it's not,
00:16:20
Speaker
They're doing its purpose.
00:16:21
Speaker
Wine is meant to be consumed.
00:16:22
Speaker
If I can't drink it because it's faulty, surely I should be entitled to my money back.
00:16:26
Speaker
And I think that's letting people get away with things.
00:16:29
Speaker
And if we're saying, no, that's the risk of natural wine, it could be faulty and you can't get your money back.
00:16:34
Speaker
Some of these natural wines are $100 plus.
00:16:37
Speaker
That's a lot of money to be gambling.
00:16:38
Speaker
I think as consumers, we need to make a stand and say, no, we don't want these fault.
00:16:43
Speaker
And then maybe importers or people buying the wines for their shop.
00:16:48
Speaker
well then there'll be more pressure on them to stop stocking them.
00:16:52
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:16:54
Speaker
I even had someone send me a DM saying that they know of people in wine stores that stock natural wine, intentionally selling mousy wines to people who are just getting into natural wine because they won't know what it is.
00:17:08
Speaker
Well, that is the worst introduction to natural wine.
00:17:11
Speaker
Like that is horrible.
00:17:12
Speaker
What?
00:17:13
Speaker
That is a horrible thing to do to someone because they're just like, oh, well, they're not going to really know what it is and they'll just think it's natural wine.
00:17:20
Speaker
And maybe that's where the problem begins because their first introduction is a wine that tastes like that and they think it's meant to taste like that.
00:17:27
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:17:28
Speaker
And they want to enjoy natural wine.
00:17:29
Speaker
So then they just think it's a part of the package.
00:17:32
Speaker
I don't know if I got a bottle and I thought it was faulty, I probably wouldn't return it, but I'm just super awkward with stuff like that.
00:17:38
Speaker
Like even with clothes, if I like buy them and have to take them back to the shop, I'm like super weird about it.
00:17:43
Speaker
I just don't like doing it.
00:17:46
Speaker
So I guess it's that as well.
00:17:47
Speaker
You just feel a bit awkward being like, oh, hi, I don't think this tastes right.
00:17:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:52
Speaker
Okay.
00:17:53
Speaker
Especially if what sparked that whole question was someone sent me a message saying they purchased a bottle of natural wine.
00:18:00
Speaker
It wasn't cheap.
00:18:00
Speaker
He said it was like $70.
00:18:03
Speaker
And he couldn't drink it because there was just – he was a winemaker.
00:18:07
Speaker
He said there was like bread, VA, mouse.
00:18:09
Speaker
It was undrinkable.
00:18:11
Speaker
But he said that he felt like he couldn't return the bottle because he purchased it.
00:18:16
Speaker
from a shop that specializes in natural wine, he thought they would just have the attitude of, you know, what did you expect?
00:18:22
Speaker
Yeah, and you at least want it to be palatable.
00:18:24
Speaker
I think that's like the bare minimum the wine can be, right?
00:18:27
Speaker
Palatable, drinkable.
00:18:29
Speaker
So, yeah, I don't know what we can do as consumers to stop this problem, but it's definitely a problem.
00:18:36
Speaker
I get so many DMs of people telling me those stories.
00:18:38
Speaker
I'm just thinking, like, this is crazy.
00:18:40
Speaker
This one Somme, I think it was somewhere overseas, maybe it was in Denmark,
00:18:46
Speaker
was trying to sell one of these expensive natural wines.
00:18:49
Speaker
It was quite expensive.
00:18:51
Speaker
It was a few hundred dollars, $350, I think he said.
00:18:54
Speaker
But he, the Somme, even said to the customer, like,
00:18:57
Speaker
you have to drink it within 30 minutes.
00:19:00
Speaker
What?
00:19:00
Speaker
Why are you stocking a wine that needs to be consumed within 30 minutes?
00:19:03
Speaker
Because otherwise it's going to fall apart and be mousy, is pretty much what they were getting at by saying that.
00:19:08
Speaker
Because that happens.
00:19:09
Speaker
That's crazy.
00:19:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:12
Speaker
But, like, I mean, at least if someone was honest, but why would you intentionally put a bottle of wine like that on the wine list if you know it's going to fall apart within 30 minutes?
00:19:21
Speaker
But, I mean, then again, I can't tell people what to drink and what to like.
00:19:24
Speaker
And some people actually enjoy...
00:19:27
Speaker
the faults and think it adds to the character of the wine and it speaks of vintage.
00:19:31
Speaker
I don't understand how it speaks of vintage.
00:19:35
Speaker
But, you know, can't tell people what to drink.
00:19:38
Speaker
If they enjoy those flavours, why not?
00:19:41
Speaker
When you talk about mousy, what do you mean by that?
00:19:44
Speaker
So it's a fault that you can't detect it on the nose.
00:19:48
Speaker
It's all to do with the palate.
00:19:51
Speaker
And something happens when you put the wine in your mouth, something with the pH.
00:19:55
Speaker
The pH interacts with your saliva and then it causes this kind of furry feeling in the mouth.
00:20:02
Speaker
Some people are super sensitive to it.
00:20:04
Speaker
I am.
00:20:05
Speaker
Some people, I think it's like 20% of the population can't detect it.
00:20:10
Speaker
So lucky them.
00:20:11
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:20:11
Speaker
Yeah, 20, I think it may even be more, but like a 20, let's say minimum 20% of people can't even detect mousiness.
00:20:17
Speaker
So lucky them.
00:20:18
Speaker
Yeah, lucky them.
00:20:19
Speaker
But yeah, it's undetectable on the nose, only on the palate, and it comes in at the end.
00:20:24
Speaker
So you might be like, oh, this isn't bad, and then bang, it hits, and it's disgusting.
00:20:28
Speaker
It literally tastes furry, and it's not for me.
00:20:34
Speaker
Not for me.
00:20:34
Speaker
Like a nutty, furry finish.
00:20:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:37
Speaker
Yeah, that doesn't sound nice at all.
00:20:39
Speaker
It's not.
00:20:39
Speaker
I hate it.
00:20:40
Speaker
Some people don't mind it though.
00:20:41
Speaker
So this is why like my mind just keeps circling back.
00:20:45
Speaker
I'm like, but it's not good.
00:20:46
Speaker
But some people don't like it.
00:20:47
Speaker
So who am I to say what I can and can't drink?
00:20:49
Speaker
Because I've sat with people before.
00:20:52
Speaker
Just like last week, we were at this wine bar.
00:20:54
Speaker
We were given this wine to try and it had every fault.
00:20:59
Speaker
It had Fille.
00:21:00
Speaker
It was Brettie.
00:21:01
Speaker
It was Mousy.
00:21:03
Speaker
And one of the guys was like, no, I really like this.
00:21:06
Speaker
I really love it.
00:21:06
Speaker
I would drink a bottle.
00:21:08
Speaker
And I was like, what?
00:21:10
Speaker
I was like, please explain how.
00:21:12
Speaker
And he was like, you know, I don't mind it.
00:21:13
Speaker
I actually think it's really good.
00:21:15
Speaker
So what wines are you drinking right now?
00:21:18
Speaker
Talking, going a little off natural wines, if you're drinking natural wines.
00:21:22
Speaker
And is there anything that we have to try and add to our list that you're like loving at the moment?
00:21:27
Speaker
For a while now, I've been enjoying more of the lighter, medium style red wines, focusing more on a style rather than sticking to a variety, just because many grape varieties can be made into a light to medium style of wine.
00:21:42
Speaker
Even a grape like Shiraz, which I think people often associate in Australia with being this big, ripe and kind of Barossan wine, can be made into more lighter styles.
00:21:53
Speaker
If you just look at kind of cooler climate regions and
00:21:56
Speaker
producers that are picking earlier.
00:21:58
Speaker
So say the Yarra Valley has some great lighter bodied seras and then varieties that just like consistently fit into this style would be like Pinot Noir, Gamay, Frapado from Sicily, Manthea from Ribera Sacra, Nurello Masculese is good.
00:22:15
Speaker
That one's got a little bit more kind of tannin and bite to it, but there's focus more on a style as opposed to just sticking to a variety.
00:22:23
Speaker
I know a lot of people can get into
00:22:25
Speaker
a variety rut and just drink, you know, Shiraz the whole life or Pinot the whole life.
00:22:30
Speaker
You know, I was kind of like that before I started this wine journey.
00:22:34
Speaker
I was only drinking rosé.
00:22:36
Speaker
Anything light and pale was basically all I was drinking.
00:22:40
Speaker
But now I'm actually like, now I feel like I haven't had a rosé in ages because I've been trying so many different wines and actually went to Orange a couple of weeks ago and discovered that I actually do like Chardonnay.
00:22:53
Speaker
I thought I hated Chardonnay, but apparently I do like it.
00:22:57
Speaker
Who's making some good Chardonnay up there?
00:23:00
Speaker
Patina wines was amazing.
00:23:03
Speaker
I'm obsessed with that.
00:23:05
Speaker
Who else did I buy Chardonnay from?
00:23:07
Speaker
I bought some from Philip Shaw as well.
00:23:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:10
Speaker
And I bought a Chardonnay from Ross Hill.
00:23:13
Speaker
Yes, Ross Hill.
00:23:15
Speaker
Very nice.
00:23:15
Speaker
Did you go check out the wines at De Salas?
00:23:19
Speaker
No, I went to Orange four years ago and we went there then.
00:23:24
Speaker
And then I did want to go to them, but our tour guide said they don't take tours anymore.
00:23:29
Speaker
That Chardonnay is really, really good.
00:23:31
Speaker
It's a very smart Chardonnay.
00:23:33
Speaker
Oh, is it?
00:23:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:34
Speaker
I only bought one bottle when I was in Orange just because I have so much wine.
00:23:38
Speaker
And that was the one I bought, one of the Chardonnays.
00:23:40
Speaker
It's just so delicious.
00:23:42
Speaker
I have to try that one.
00:23:43
Speaker
I'll add it to my list.
00:23:45
Speaker
The ever-growing list of wines we need to try.
00:23:48
Speaker
Oh, my gosh.
00:23:49
Speaker
My wine fridge is so full.
00:23:51
Speaker
I'm like, my boyfriend's like, you do not need any more wine.
00:23:54
Speaker
I'm like, but I do.
00:23:55
Speaker
I need to try it all.
00:23:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:59
Speaker
Every time I walk into work, there's always like new wines.
00:24:02
Speaker
I'm like, no, this is not good for my wallet.
00:24:05
Speaker
Stop getting a new wine.
00:24:07
Speaker
I can't afford this.
00:24:09
Speaker
What's your most memorable moment that you've experienced during your wine journey?
Adventures in Winemaking
00:24:13
Speaker
I was probably trying to make my own wine.
00:24:16
Speaker
Didn't work out very well, but it was a fun experience.
00:24:18
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:24:19
Speaker
Yeah, so it was a few years ago now when I was working at Anandau Cellars, me and another guy, Sam,
00:24:26
Speaker
who worked there, we just had an idea, like, let's go make some wine.
00:24:29
Speaker
We'll get fruit from Mudgee.
00:24:31
Speaker
So we contacted Will Gilbert, super nice guy.
00:24:36
Speaker
And he said we could have some of his Sangiovese.
00:24:40
Speaker
So we drove up and we stayed the night.
00:24:43
Speaker
And then the next morning we went and picked some of the fruit.
00:24:47
Speaker
Picking is hard work.
00:24:49
Speaker
It's not glamorous at all.
00:24:52
Speaker
I feel like people have this idea of vintage.
00:24:54
Speaker
I've heard it's really hard work.
00:24:56
Speaker
Yeah, I was only doing it for like an hour and I was exhausted.
00:25:00
Speaker
It's like this sucks.
00:25:02
Speaker
And it's all like spiders and insects crawling all over you.
00:25:05
Speaker
It's okay.
00:25:06
Speaker
It's not the funnest thing picking grapes.
00:25:09
Speaker
So we picked like enough grapes that we thought we could make a small batch and Will was super nice and he stemmed all the grapes for us.
00:25:19
Speaker
And then he just chucked some dry ice on it so it would be better protected for the drive back to Sydney.
00:25:25
Speaker
So we drove back to Sydney in the work van with all these grapes in the back.
00:25:30
Speaker
And then we made it at the back of the shop at Annandale Cellars.
00:25:33
Speaker
And we were just kind of stomping.
00:25:35
Speaker
What?
00:25:36
Speaker
Yeah, just in these huge tubs.
00:25:38
Speaker
We were, like, stomping and crushing the grapes.
00:25:40
Speaker
It was so messy.
00:25:41
Speaker
We made an absolute mess.
00:25:42
Speaker
But it was really good fun.
00:25:44
Speaker
And then we put all the –
00:25:48
Speaker
like the grapes and stuff into these plastic beer kegs because it was really like the only vessel we had.
00:25:55
Speaker
We're not going to go buy a small vat or like a little barrel.
00:25:59
Speaker
And Sam works in the beer industry as well.
00:26:02
Speaker
So he was like, I've got some spare empty plastic kegs.
00:26:05
Speaker
So we chucked it into that and we just let it kind of macerate on its skins for a few weeks.
00:26:11
Speaker
And I remember like during –
00:26:13
Speaker
work I would just like go downstairs and stick this like this broomstick inside the keg to like punch down it was just so ridiculous oh my god so ridiculous the wine wasn't great though I didn't expect it to ever be good though kind of tasted like a like a lambrusco but with VA wasn't our finest work
00:26:37
Speaker
But it was good fun.
00:26:39
Speaker
And Sam's dad actually makes some really cool natural wines out of his house in Queensland.
00:26:45
Speaker
So he makes the Wedded to the Weather wines.
00:26:47
Speaker
Have you seen those around?
00:26:49
Speaker
Wedded to the Weather.
00:26:49
Speaker
I don't think so.
00:26:51
Speaker
No, I don't think I have.
00:26:53
Speaker
Elephant, I think, on the label.
00:26:54
Speaker
But, yeah, that's Sam's dad.
00:26:56
Speaker
So he was trying to give us some tips.
00:26:58
Speaker
But, yeah.
00:26:59
Speaker
Didn't work out very well, but it was good fun.
00:27:02
Speaker
It was a good little memory.
00:27:03
Speaker
And Will is such a champion for letting us have those graves.
00:27:05
Speaker
Oh, my God, definitely.
00:27:06
Speaker
It's such a memorable moment.
00:27:07
Speaker
And distemming them for us because if we had to hand-distemp, that would have taken us hours.
00:27:12
Speaker
It just would have been so tedious.
00:27:14
Speaker
I would also love to make my own mine once or twice.
00:27:16
Speaker
That would be amazing.
00:27:18
Speaker
Even if it didn't work out, it would just be fun.
00:27:20
Speaker
Yeah, it's all about the experience.
00:27:21
Speaker
I would love to work a vintage.
00:27:23
Speaker
Like, absolutely love it.
00:27:24
Speaker
It's just so hard.
00:27:25
Speaker
I mean, I've got a toddler, so I can't just disappear for a month.
00:27:28
Speaker
make wine I've been trying to kind of just head up to the hunter for a day or two whenever I can just to kind of see what's happening it's just difficult managing my time with a toddler oh my god definitely and it's not like you can take them to the vineyards as well no way so I was actually going to ask about that I was going to say you recently helped out with a harvest but you that was just like a quick one day because I was going to say how was that experience uh I don't think I can claim that I helped very
00:27:57
Speaker
The grapes are picked.
00:27:57
Speaker
It was literally just like he had his Shiraz fermenting and we just helped out, did a few little body punch downs.
00:28:05
Speaker
You know, I think every, like a lot of people who love wine just have this idea like, oh, how cool would it be to just jump in a vat of grapes?
00:28:12
Speaker
And I asked Usher Tinkler if I could do that and he agreed to let me do it.
00:28:17
Speaker
And yeah, it was pretty funny.
00:28:18
Speaker
It was fun times.
00:28:20
Speaker
It was super cold, super cold in that vat.
00:28:23
Speaker
Oh, yeah, it would be.
00:28:24
Speaker
It was freezing.
00:28:25
Speaker
But it was good fun and I do hope that I can actually do a proper vintage one day.
00:28:31
Speaker
Yeah, it would be such a great experience to do.
00:28:34
Speaker
It would be hard work but it would be an amazing experience.
00:28:36
Speaker
Yeah, it would be hard work.
00:28:36
Speaker
Super long hours, super long.
00:28:38
Speaker
My friend Sam, she's doing vintage now in the Barossa with Alex Head and it's just crazy the hours that you've got to work.
00:28:48
Speaker
All for that experience.
00:28:51
Speaker
Yeah, exactly, all for that memory, and it would be a great memory.
00:28:55
Speaker
What's your favourite wine region and why?
00:28:58
Speaker
I feel like I would have to say it's Beau Chalet, but I have not been there.
00:29:02
Speaker
I haven't been able to get myself there yet, but that's just from my love of Gamay.
00:29:07
Speaker
It's just the ideal light-drinking bread, and I really like it because it's like the underdog of Burgundy, right?
00:29:14
Speaker
It was so overshadowed by Pinot Noir.
00:29:17
Speaker
They even banned the Gamay grape in Burgundy,
00:29:21
Speaker
in, I don't know, like the 16th.
00:29:22
Speaker
Oh, what?
00:29:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:23
Speaker
Philip the Bold, the Duke at the time, said it was like unfit for human consumption.
00:29:29
Speaker
So they had to rip up all the Gamay plantings.
00:29:32
Speaker
And I think that's when they kind of moved further south and started planting in Pojolet.
00:29:37
Speaker
So it's just the underdog grape variety of Burgundy.
00:29:39
Speaker
And I think, you know, it's so underappreciated and undervalued.
00:29:44
Speaker
I mean, these days there's a lot more hype around it.
00:29:47
Speaker
But if you look, you know, 10, 15 years ago,
00:29:51
Speaker
it was pretty kind of disregarded as a variety and style.
00:29:54
Speaker
And I think that whole Beaujolais nouveau trend kind of did a little bit of damage for its reputation because a lot of people just thought of it as, you know, an easy kind of bubblegum, banana, light drinking nouveau style when it can be so much more.
00:30:11
Speaker
You just have to look for the crews, right?
00:30:13
Speaker
There's 10 crews, each are slightly different.
00:30:17
Speaker
So there's quite a bit of variety there in terms of style.
00:30:20
Speaker
There's so many regions I want to go to.
00:30:22
Speaker
I don't think I've ever tried one.
00:30:24
Speaker
You've never tried one?
00:30:25
Speaker
We need to change that.
00:30:26
Speaker
No, I don't think I have.
00:30:29
Speaker
But you've had the variety before, Gamay, just not from Beaujolais?
00:30:33
Speaker
I've heard of the variety through your Instagram, but I hadn't heard of it before that.
00:30:38
Speaker
I think another reason why I love Gamay is because my first blind tasting I had during the Wesset 3, Beaujolais was the wine that we were given.
00:30:49
Speaker
And I guessed it right.
00:30:50
Speaker
So I was like, yes, you've got my back, Beaujolais.
00:30:54
Speaker
Then, again, the obsession began.
00:30:56
Speaker
It was like the first blind wine.
00:30:57
Speaker
I was like, I can't believe I guessed it right.
00:31:00
Speaker
And also, like, Burgundy is expensive.
00:31:03
Speaker
If you want even entry-level Burgundy, you're looking at, like, $60, $70.
00:31:07
Speaker
But if you head down south a little bit to Beaujolais for $60, $70, you can get a really, really good example of a Crewe wine.
00:31:15
Speaker
You're getting kind of like the best of what the region has to offer.
00:31:19
Speaker
But in Burgundy, you're getting like the very entry level of what that region has to offer, but at the same price.
00:31:24
Speaker
And there's some similarities between the grape varieties and the styles.
00:31:28
Speaker
You're always going to have a little bit more kind of fruit, I guess, in the Gamay.
00:31:32
Speaker
And it's just got a bit different structure.
00:31:34
Speaker
Like it's not as...
00:31:36
Speaker
The tannins are different and I don't know, you could say it's not as serious perhaps as a Burgundy.
00:31:41
Speaker
It's a little bit more playful.
00:31:43
Speaker
It doesn't have the same cellaring potential a lot of the times.
00:31:46
Speaker
But, you know, it scratches that itch for me and it's good on the wallet.
00:31:49
Speaker
For someone that hasn't had it before, what bottle would you recommend that they start with?
00:31:55
Speaker
I'm just trying to think of one that'd be widely available.
00:31:58
Speaker
Just working at a small wine store, I recommend wines and a lot of the time they're super difficult for people to get because, I mean, either they're all sold out, the vintage has rolled.
00:32:07
Speaker
I mean, I really love Jean Foyard, his Cote de Pea.
00:32:12
Speaker
I met him at Rootstock maybe like six-ish years ago and then that kind of just instilled my love for the region.
00:32:19
Speaker
But
00:32:20
Speaker
That's from Morgane and that makes more kind of serious styles of Beaujolais and that Cote de Pea is like a particular slope in the region and that's more of, yeah, a serious, fleshy style.
00:32:33
Speaker
However, some people have told me that they've had bottles that have been riddled with Brett and that breaks my heart.
00:32:39
Speaker
Oh, no.
00:32:40
Speaker
Just being a natural wine, see, that sometimes happens.
00:32:42
Speaker
But all the wines I've had by him have been... Yeah.
00:32:45
Speaker
Fairly clean.
00:32:46
Speaker
I mean, Beaujolais kind of has a bit of a reputation for being a little bit pretty at times, just because there's a lot of natural winemakers in that region.
00:32:55
Speaker
I'm going to say the Jean Foyard Cote de Pys, if you guys can find it, but it's expensive.
00:33:00
Speaker
It's like 80-ish dollars, not cheap.
00:33:03
Speaker
I'm trying to think of like cheaper, cheaper Beaujolais.
00:33:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:06
Speaker
I just, I hate always recommending like such expensive wines as well.
00:33:10
Speaker
If people are just getting into the style, I like to suggest something that's a little bit more affordable.
00:33:15
Speaker
Like an Australian Gamay that's affordable and I think is a good introduction to the variety would be the Plant Road, Nyarra Valley.
00:33:22
Speaker
You can get a bottle for under $30.
00:33:24
Speaker
Oh, awesome.
00:33:25
Speaker
Okay.
00:33:26
Speaker
Maybe I'll start with that.
00:33:27
Speaker
It's delicious.
00:33:28
Speaker
It's like light and dry.
00:33:30
Speaker
Um,
00:33:31
Speaker
And then with a little bit of airtime, it gets kind of like savory and meaty.
00:33:36
Speaker
It's really good.
00:33:36
Speaker
Are there any other wine regions that you would like to visit that you haven't yet?
Wine Regions & Industry Trends
00:33:41
Speaker
So many, especially regions of Australia.
00:33:45
Speaker
I did a little bit of wine traveling earlier this year to kind of Mudgee, Orange, and the Hunter.
00:33:52
Speaker
There's just so many.
00:33:53
Speaker
I want to check out Canberra, the wine region.
00:33:56
Speaker
There's just so many.
00:33:57
Speaker
producers doing amazing things you have Ravensworth you have Madawines you have Malaluca like just seems like there's so much cool stuff happening there I also want to go to Tassie I want to go to Victoria yeah um I love Victorian wines I would love to check out like Beechworth and Heathcord and Mornington honestly it's endless I want to go everywhere and then like we're not even talking international like I'd love to go to the Moselle oh that would be an absolute dream
00:34:24
Speaker
Same.
00:34:25
Speaker
I would love to go everywhere.
00:34:27
Speaker
There's so many places in Australia I haven't been to.
00:34:29
Speaker
And then to think internationally as well, I'm like, oh my gosh, just so many places.
00:34:34
Speaker
So what do you think the wine industry will see more or less of in 2021?
00:34:38
Speaker
Definitely more natural wines.
00:34:42
Speaker
but it's not slowed down but I think we're going to see it with maybe more certification behind it like more growers certifying to become organic or maybe being a little bit more responsible about it about their natural winemaking and I guess just time will tell with that it's a lot of trial and error for these winemakers sometimes I think more like alternative packaging ideas like
00:35:10
Speaker
I know canned wines have taken off quite a bit in America and maybe that trend is going to follow suit here.
00:35:16
Speaker
Or even those like fancy looking goon sacks, those wine pouches.
00:35:21
Speaker
Like they're not in a box.
00:35:22
Speaker
It's like a wine pouch.
00:35:23
Speaker
Yes, they're amazing.
00:35:25
Speaker
I'm actually interviewing in a couple of weeks the founder of a glass off who does the fancy pouches.
00:35:32
Speaker
So that'd be really interesting to hear about.
00:35:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:36
Speaker
But I've never tried wine from the pouches.
00:35:38
Speaker
So yeah, it'd be a fun interview.
00:35:40
Speaker
Jared Dixon who makes the Gilly wines.
00:35:43
Speaker
puts his wine in those little pouches and like that that's great for like the beach or a picnic and they're just like easy to just like chuck in the esky what else we're gonna see more like more growth in the digital world we already saw that a lot with covid right people wineries jumping more online reaching reaching their audience that way just like the continued growth of online sales so many
00:36:05
Speaker
new online retailers always popping up.
00:36:08
Speaker
Yes.
00:36:09
Speaker
Because people are time for or they can't leave the house because of COVID.
00:36:12
Speaker
They're just ordering lots of wine online.
00:36:15
Speaker
And less of, probably like we're seeing it now, they're just like less ripe, heavy, heavily oaked, high alcohol wines.
00:36:25
Speaker
I think people are burning away from that style.
00:36:28
Speaker
And people have been for a few years now, but I think we'll just continue to see
00:36:33
Speaker
less of that.
00:36:34
Speaker
I know a lot of producers in the Barossa, they're picking earlier.
00:36:38
Speaker
They want to retain more of that acidity so they don't have to add acids.
00:36:45
Speaker
just to have kind of brighter and fresher styles.
00:36:48
Speaker
Do you think we'll see more boxed wine as well?
00:36:51
Speaker
I can't imagine a day where I would go and buy boxed wine.
00:36:54
Speaker
I just don't know.
00:36:55
Speaker
Is it appealing to consumers?
00:36:57
Speaker
I mean, there's surely a demographic who wouldn't mind boxed wine.
00:37:01
Speaker
I don't know.
00:37:01
Speaker
What do you think of boxed wine?
00:37:03
Speaker
I don't know if I can get behind it.
00:37:04
Speaker
Maybe I'm too much of a snob like that.
00:37:07
Speaker
I actually really like it.
00:37:08
Speaker
I got sent some from Banterbox, which is part of Calabria Family Wines, and it's really nice.
00:37:15
Speaker
It's really good to take to a barbecue or a picnic, or if you're having a barbecue, because instead of opening three bottles, you just open one box, and it's two liters of wine.
00:37:26
Speaker
Also, when I interviewed Emma Norbiato from Calabria Family Wines, she said that they're using it as a way to
00:37:33
Speaker
experiment with different wines and also to introduce new wines like Monte Pulsiano to people who haven't tried it before and don't want to spend like $70 on a bottle of wine they've never tried before.
00:37:45
Speaker
So she said they're also using it as a sort of test.
00:37:48
Speaker
I would be keen to try some.
00:37:49
Speaker
I just don't know if it would be a wine for me.
00:37:53
Speaker
It's just I guess it doesn't fit into the way like I consume wine.
00:37:57
Speaker
I feel like that appeals to someone who can like put it in the fridge and like have a glass at night and not have to worry about
00:38:03
Speaker
about it changing right because they stay fresh for weeks don't they yeah yeah where I barely drink by myself 30 days 30 days wow see but I've like 30 days rarely drink alone by myself like at home maybe I'll have like a can of sour beer or like
00:38:23
Speaker
If I'm drinking wine, it's more to taste it and to write tasty notes.
00:38:26
Speaker
And then when I am drinking, it's more in like a social setting and I bring a bottle of wine.
00:38:31
Speaker
But maybe one day I'll rock up with a box of wine.
00:38:33
Speaker
Who knows?
00:38:34
Speaker
It's good for the environment.
00:38:35
Speaker
Surprise everyone.
00:38:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:37
Speaker
Do you have any wine goals for 2021 of your
Pursuing Wine Education
00:38:41
Speaker
own?
00:38:41
Speaker
I need to finish this with a diploma.
00:38:44
Speaker
That's what I need to do.
00:38:45
Speaker
It's been like...
00:38:46
Speaker
about two years now since I've put off this one exam, just life, right?
00:38:51
Speaker
Oh, my God.
00:38:52
Speaker
Being pregnant.
00:38:52
Speaker
I was pregnant and I was like, I will study when the baby's here, thinking I would have all this free time.
00:38:58
Speaker
No, when the baby came, I was like, I am not studying.
00:39:01
Speaker
I have no time to study.
00:39:03
Speaker
I had this idea that she would, like, sleep a little of the time and I would study while she was sleeping.
00:39:08
Speaker
But no, that didn't work.
00:39:10
Speaker
Oh, my God, so funny.
00:39:11
Speaker
Yeah, that didn't work out.
00:39:12
Speaker
So I definitely need to finish that.
00:39:13
Speaker
I mean, it's one exam.
00:39:15
Speaker
It's only the theory.
00:39:16
Speaker
I don't have to sit the tasting.
00:39:18
Speaker
I really want to get that over and done with.
00:39:19
Speaker
And that is pretty time consuming.
00:39:23
Speaker
Big.
00:39:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:24
Speaker
So I'm trying to just focus on that because my mind can wander pretty easily if I start thinking of everything else I want to do.
00:39:31
Speaker
So I'm trying to focus on that diploma and get out of the way.
00:39:34
Speaker
Oh my God, same.
00:39:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:35
Speaker
I just feel like it's like this thing that hovers over my head, this Western diploma.
00:39:40
Speaker
I need to get rid of you.
00:39:41
Speaker
It's unit three in the diploma, which is just massive.
00:39:44
Speaker
Like,
00:39:45
Speaker
The book I have is 500 pages, double-sided, tiny font.
00:39:49
Speaker
It's like the tiniest font in the world as well.
00:39:52
Speaker
So there's just a lot to take in.
00:39:54
Speaker
Oh, my God, that sounds awful.
00:39:56
Speaker
Yeah, and I don't even know how my brain will be able to retain all the information.
00:40:02
Speaker
But, I mean, it's not possible.
00:40:03
Speaker
Lots of people have it.
00:40:05
Speaker
So I must be able to do it.
00:40:07
Speaker
Exactly.
00:40:08
Speaker
With the diploma, I'm guessing it's not multiple choice like the other ones.
00:40:14
Speaker
No.
00:40:15
Speaker
No.
00:40:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:17
Speaker
But they want, like, long-winded answers.
00:40:21
Speaker
Oh, God.
00:40:22
Speaker
I have to write two A4 pages on the questions.
00:40:26
Speaker
So you have to know in depth about a lot of different things.
00:40:30
Speaker
Like two whole pages of writing.
00:40:32
Speaker
My hand gets so crampy.
00:40:34
Speaker
Like it is a lot.
00:40:36
Speaker
Yeah, so you really need to kind of do a deep dive into everything and be able to kind of connect the dots and have a really good understanding of certain topics.
00:40:46
Speaker
And they could convince you on anything.
00:40:47
Speaker
Like it's every single region in the world.
00:40:50
Speaker
Oh, God.
00:40:51
Speaker
It sounds like a lot.
00:40:52
Speaker
Yeah, but it'll be worth it.
00:40:57
Speaker
That's what I tell myself.
00:40:58
Speaker
Do you have any tips for people that are studying it or interested in doing their Wessett training?
00:41:06
Speaker
What worked really well for me was, yeah, to have that study plan.
00:41:09
Speaker
Like I was super consistent.
00:41:10
Speaker
I would literally get home from work and just study straight away for a few hours.
00:41:15
Speaker
Having that good routine, the courses are totally achievable.
00:41:19
Speaker
You just have to have discipline because a lot of the work is self-study.
00:41:22
Speaker
I found flashcards really helpful for Wesset 2 and 3, not so much for Diploma because they're just asking such – they expect such long responses.
00:41:32
Speaker
Flashcards aren't, well, for me, super helpful in that way.
00:41:35
Speaker
Don't help.
00:41:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:36
Speaker
Studying maps is amazing because you see everything on the map and you know, okay, so the Atlantic Ocean is here.
00:41:44
Speaker
That means it's got a maritime climate or if the region is further inland, so if you're looking at a map of Spain and you're looking at Madrid,
00:41:51
Speaker
You can see it's in the centre, so it's going to have more of a continental climate.
00:41:54
Speaker
You don't really have the influences of the sea there.
00:41:57
Speaker
So just kind of visualising that map in your mind I think is super helpful and just knowing where everything is and kind of the climatic influences because that's something you can just be able to write and write about, which they want in Diploma.
00:42:14
Speaker
Um, and what I also did was so nerdy.
00:42:18
Speaker
Um, I wrote down all the previous questions on like pieces of paper and then I would draw them out of like a cup, like a mug in my kitchen.
00:42:26
Speaker
And then I would,
00:42:28
Speaker
with myself and then I would write down like that's actually a great idea just write down everything I knew and then I would go back over my answer and just figure out what like all the information that I'm missing and then jot that down doing um practice tests I found super helpful I would even record like oh my god I can't believe how much I was a nerd back in the day I would record myself reading out my wine notes and then listen back to it when I was like doing like chores around the house I
00:42:56
Speaker
Oh, my God.
00:42:57
Speaker
That's amazing, though.
00:42:58
Speaker
That's great.
00:42:59
Speaker
Oh, my God.
00:43:00
Speaker
That's when I was, like, just started diploma.
00:43:03
Speaker
And, like, for that first year, I was just, like, full force doing absolutely everything.
00:43:08
Speaker
On my, like, 30-minute lunch break, I was that person in the staff room, like, studying diploma.
00:43:13
Speaker
Every spare minute of my life was spent studying.
00:43:17
Speaker
What's your favorite food and wine pairing at the moment?
Wine Pairings & Recommendations
00:43:21
Speaker
Look, I've got a little bit of a sweet tooth.
00:43:25
Speaker
um so i don't know if i guess it's a food and wine pairing but pedro eximines it's a uh pedro eximines is like a white variety um it's a spanish white variety and it gets made often to like a dessert style wine a dessert sherry it's like intensely sweet and dark it's like almost black and like super sweet there's like
00:43:48
Speaker
300 to 400 grams of sugar per liter.
00:43:51
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:43:53
Speaker
If you use this as like an ice cream topping, so you just get like really nice vanilla ice cream and you just like drizzle this on top.
00:44:01
Speaker
It is amazing.
00:44:02
Speaker
Like the Pedro Ximenez is like candied figs and dates and chocolate and spice and coffee.
00:44:09
Speaker
So it is literally the best ice cream topping in the world.
00:44:13
Speaker
Is that a food and wine pairing?
00:44:14
Speaker
I don't know, but it's delicious.
00:44:16
Speaker
Yes.
00:44:18
Speaker
That sounds amazing.
00:44:19
Speaker
I'm like, that's so random, but so great.
00:44:23
Speaker
I'm like, that's definitely a food and wine pairing.
00:44:25
Speaker
It is adult ice cream topping.
00:44:27
Speaker
It is delicious.
00:44:29
Speaker
And the great thing about the sherry is you can open a bottle and you can keep it in the fridge for a few months and it'll be fine.
00:44:35
Speaker
So it's just like a little sweet treat, a little naughty sweet treat, whenever you like.
00:44:40
Speaker
Is there a food and wine pairing you're loving?
00:44:43
Speaker
Is there a little go-to of yours?
00:44:45
Speaker
I don't know, actually.
00:44:46
Speaker
I don't, I guess most of the time I just drink whatever.
00:44:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:51
Speaker
I don't really, I don't really like food and wine pair very much.
00:44:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:57
Speaker
I'm trying to think, do I know?
00:44:58
Speaker
See, I don't do it often as well.
00:44:59
Speaker
I just go with whatever I'm feeling like.
00:45:02
Speaker
And I don't do a lot of food and wine pairings at home.
00:45:05
Speaker
Just like, I don't really drink much when I'm at home and then,
00:45:08
Speaker
When I'm out to eat, I do kind of take it into consideration.
00:45:11
Speaker
But maybe it's because I'm not from like a SOM background is why –
00:45:16
Speaker
I don't think too much about it.
00:45:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:18
Speaker
Perhaps.
00:45:18
Speaker
I kind of just drink what I like and eat what I like.
00:45:21
Speaker
Same.
00:45:22
Speaker
I think that's the best way to do it.
00:45:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:24
Speaker
If you could take, this is a hard one, I know, if you could take any Australian wine to the below events, what would they be and why?
00:45:34
Speaker
So a barbecue, a dinner party, and when you feel like a couple of glasses of wine at home.
00:45:39
Speaker
So for the barbecue, 100% I'm going to bring the demi-syrup.
00:45:45
Speaker
That is from Heathcote made by Adam Foster who is like just obsessed with Shiraz.
00:45:51
Speaker
And it is like a nice kind of medium-bodied Syrah.
00:45:55
Speaker
It's kind of very Rhone-esque, I guess you could say.
00:45:58
Speaker
It's got a lot of that black olive, that pepper, still with some beautiful fruit.
00:46:02
Speaker
And it's medium-bodied so it's not really going to overpower anything at the barbecue.
00:46:07
Speaker
Like it's very food-friendly.
00:46:09
Speaker
And also you can get it for like $30.
00:46:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:11
Speaker
Like $30 is the most you're going to pay for it.
00:46:13
Speaker
Oh, perfect.
00:46:15
Speaker
And it's just delicious.
00:46:16
Speaker
And I feel like it would be a pretty, like, a crowd-pleasing wine.
00:46:20
Speaker
So that's what I would bring to a barbecue, that demi-sirot.
00:46:23
Speaker
So delicious.
00:46:24
Speaker
I feel so much of it at work.
00:46:27
Speaker
Oh, really?
00:46:27
Speaker
Whenever anyone wants a Shiraz, I'm like, how about this one?
00:46:30
Speaker
And then for a dinner party, I always like to bring something, like, a little bit different to a dinner party, maybe just, like, a variety that perhaps people haven't tried before.
00:46:42
Speaker
And the one that kind of sticks out that I had kind of recently would be the Clos-Sabone Tiburon Rouge.
00:46:50
Speaker
So it's a red wine from Provence.
00:46:53
Speaker
Okay.
00:46:53
Speaker
The great variety being Tiburon, but, I mean, there's –
00:46:56
Speaker
barely any plantings of this variety it's pretty obscure grape but it just makes this like beautiful light kind of meaty savory sorry there's a theme going on here of me liking these savory star whites there is that's what I would bring because if it's not going to go for the food it's light enough to have like before the meal is kind of like an aperitif why everyone's just talking and stuff and
00:47:21
Speaker
almost guaranteed that no one's had tiburin before um and it's just just like small little biodynamic producer real wines bring it in he brings in such amazing wines and that's like around 50 so not crazy expensive um it's like a clean natural wine as well that's got a little bit of a story behind it so just kind of anything a little bit alternative just trying to
00:47:45
Speaker
something that's got a little story and hopefully no one's tried before as opposed to just like bringing a Shiraz or bringing a Cabernet.
00:47:51
Speaker
And then when I'm at home, probably a Riesling and like maybe like an off-dry Riesling, just something that's like super easy to drink.
00:48:00
Speaker
I don't have to think about it much.
00:48:02
Speaker
And Dr. Lucen, that's like a pretty big winemaker in Moselle and you can get his –
00:48:08
Speaker
the Dr. Lucerne Riesling from Mozo for like $22.
00:48:11
Speaker
And it's just such an easy drinking.
00:48:13
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:48:14
Speaker
Riesling.
00:48:15
Speaker
There's a little bit of residual sugar.
00:48:17
Speaker
I don't mind residual sugar.
00:48:19
Speaker
I'm pouring sweet sherry over my ice cream.
00:48:24
Speaker
So I'm happy with some sugar.
00:48:26
Speaker
And it's just, yeah, it's just easy drinking.
00:48:28
Speaker
Crowd pleaser wine.
00:48:30
Speaker
I've never had anyone say they didn't like it.
00:48:32
Speaker
And it's cheap.
00:48:33
Speaker
You know, if I'm just drinking at home, I don't want to open anything.
00:48:36
Speaker
Too expensive.
00:48:37
Speaker
And that's also available, like, so many places at Dr. Lucent Riesling.
00:48:41
Speaker
It's, like, $20.
00:48:42
Speaker
I think you can even find it at Dan Murphy's.
00:48:45
Speaker
It's everywhere.
00:48:46
Speaker
That's perfect.
00:48:46
Speaker
Thank you so much for coming on, by the way.
00:48:48
Speaker
I just want to say a massive thank you.
00:48:50
Speaker
It's been so interesting and I've learned so much about natural wines and everything else, but a lot about natural wines.
00:48:56
Speaker
No, it's been amazing.
00:48:57
Speaker
Thank you so much.
00:48:58
Speaker
I hope I didn't ramble too much about natural wine.
00:49:01
Speaker
I hope it made sense somehow because I can tend to go on a tangent.
00:49:04
Speaker
It's so interesting.
00:49:06
Speaker
It made sense.
00:49:07
Speaker
No, honestly, it made sense.
00:49:08
Speaker
It was really, really interesting.
00:49:10
Speaker
Thank you.
00:49:11
Speaker
All right.
00:49:11
Speaker
Wonderful.
00:49:13
Speaker
Thank you so much for listening.
00:49:14
Speaker
Please rate, review, subscribe and share with your friends.
00:49:18
Speaker
I'll see you next week for another closer look into the wine industry.
00:49:21
Speaker
Now go and grab that glass of wine.
00:49:23
Speaker
You deserve it.
00:49:52
Speaker
you