Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Orange - Daniel Shaw - Philip Shaw Wines
80 Plays3 years ago
On this week’s episode of Fine Vines and Wine, I’m joined by Daniel Shaw, head winemaker at Philip Shaw Wines. We talk about how Daniel has been working in the wine industry from a young age, his time as a winemaker in America, and different wine making techniques around the world as well as Daniel’s own personal wine making style and approach.
We also discuss what goes into having a successful cellar door, the perfect food and wine pairings (get ready to start salivating), how to make the perfect Chardonnay, and Daniel’s love of lighter style reds.
Make sure you also listen to the end for an amazing experience that Daniel has offered to my listeners, you don’t want to miss it.
As always, head over to my instagram page (www.instagram.com/finevinesandwine) for a list of all wines mentioned in today’s episode.
Links:https://www.philipshaw.com.au
https://www.instagram.com/philipshawwines/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to 'Fine Vines and Wine'
00:00:07
Speaker
Hi everyone and welcome to Fine Vines and Wine.
00:00:10
Speaker
I'm your host Karis Pixie and each week I'll be giving you all an insight into the behind the scenes of our favourite beverage, wine.
00:00:18
Speaker
I'd love for you to use this podcast platform as a winery guide for your next weekend away.
00:00:23
Speaker
exploring everything Australia has to offer.
00:00:26
Speaker
You never know, you might discover a new spot or two to visit.
Acknowledgment of Traditional Custodians
00:00:30
Speaker
I acknowledge the Catechal and the Wiridjuri peoples, traditional custodians of the land that we recorded today's podcast episode on.
00:00:37
Speaker
I pay my respects to the elders past, present and emerging, for they hold the memories, the traditions, the culture and hopes of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples across the nation.
Challenges of Wine Production Post-2020 Fires
00:00:48
Speaker
On this episode of Fine Vines and Wine, I'm joined by Daniel Shaw.
00:00:52
Speaker
winemaker at phillipshaw wines in orange thank you for joining me today how's the beginning of your week going yeah going well so far it's um pretty wet here at the moment we're we're just madly trying to get some wines ready for bottling oh awesome it's we're probably in a similar situation to you know a lot of people in new south wales and
00:01:16
Speaker
other regions that were affected by the fires in 2020.
00:01:21
Speaker
So we're all, you know, running a little bit low, or a lot of us, I would say, running quite low on stock and, you know, really needing to turn things around quite
Impact of Record Rainfall on Wine Production
00:01:30
Speaker
quickly.
00:01:30
Speaker
Definitely.
00:01:30
Speaker
Which is, you know, exciting and challenging at the same time.
00:01:34
Speaker
Yeah, no, I can imagine definitely.
00:01:36
Speaker
How's vintage season going for you guys?
00:01:38
Speaker
Is it still going or has it finished?
00:01:39
Speaker
No, it's sort of well over.
00:01:42
Speaker
It's been a, you know, I guess you'd say after 2020, it would have been nice if it was a little bit easier.
00:01:49
Speaker
We had a fairly challenging March.
00:01:54
Speaker
It was the wettest March on record for us.
00:01:57
Speaker
So it's quite a cool vintage as well.
00:02:00
Speaker
So you'll see some really, I'd almost say quite classic wines coming out of orange for the earlier varieties.
00:02:08
Speaker
You know, Chardonnay, Sauvignon Blanc, Pinot Noir looks amazing.
00:02:13
Speaker
But the bigger reds for us were a little bit challenging because they sort of ripened in that later part of March.
00:02:22
Speaker
and we just got too much rain so we won't be making much of those this year
00:02:28
Speaker
That's okay.
00:02:28
Speaker
I really enjoyed, actually I was saying before, I've said it a couple of times, but before I went to Orange, I actually didn't drink Chardonnay.
00:02:35
Speaker
And then after my Orange trip, I think I only bought Chardonnay.
00:02:38
Speaker
So that's fine by me.
00:02:41
Speaker
I bought Chardonnay from every winery I visited and I was like, what's going on?
00:02:45
Speaker
I don't drink Chardonnay.
00:02:47
Speaker
Yeah, Chardonnay is a really wonderful variety here.
00:02:50
Speaker
It almost performs every year.
00:02:54
Speaker
Even in the challenging years, going back when we look at our older wines, you know, they still really stack up.
00:03:02
Speaker
They, you know, look really good.
00:03:05
Speaker
Generally, we'll pick them a little bit earlier, so they're quite tight.
00:03:09
Speaker
But, yeah, Chardonnay is a wonderful variety.
00:03:12
Speaker
Yeah, no, it's really nice.
00:03:13
Speaker
I think what I don't like about Chardonnay is the super oaky sort of styles, and I feel like in orange they didn't really taste like that to me, so I feel like that's why I quite like them.
00:03:25
Speaker
Yeah, they've got quite a tight frame, if you like.
00:03:30
Speaker
So, you know, if you do hang too many barrels off that frame, it'll sort of fall over.
00:03:36
Speaker
So, yeah, we're really careful not only on our oak selection,
00:03:42
Speaker
So, you know, what forests the oak comes from, what toasts, what coopers that we work with.
00:03:49
Speaker
But, yeah, we're really very careful not to have it as an undertone.
Daniel's Background and Early Experiences
00:03:54
Speaker
How long have you been working in wine?
00:03:57
Speaker
You know, I give or take all my life, I suppose you'd say.
00:04:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:02
Speaker
Yeah, my dad was a winemaker and, you know, as a young person, I used to work in the cellar.
00:04:09
Speaker
You know, whether that was painting the floors or, you know, scraping your rust off things or whatever it was.
00:04:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:16
Speaker
Yeah, I've been working in wineries since I was a kid.
00:04:20
Speaker
Oh, wow, that's awesome.
00:04:21
Speaker
So you've always been around wine and the wine industry.
00:04:24
Speaker
Yeah, I can imagine.
00:04:26
Speaker
What's been your most memorable moment that you've experienced during your wine journey?
00:04:32
Speaker
Probably having that first job where you're effectively in charge, I suppose, and having to make those decisions for yourself.
00:04:46
Speaker
And that for me was in America.
00:04:48
Speaker
Oh, okay, awesome.
00:04:49
Speaker
I had a job as a red winemaker over there for a company in Paso Robles.
00:04:55
Speaker
And, yeah, I guess that first realisation of, you know, it's that sink and swim moment where you're, right, I'm in the deep end.
00:05:05
Speaker
Let's have a go.
00:05:06
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:05:08
Speaker
That's sort of, you know, to me that was sort of the starting point of my, I guess, career as a winemaker.
00:05:15
Speaker
Oh, that's awesome.
00:05:16
Speaker
Did you enjoy working in wine in America?
00:05:20
Speaker
I did, actually.
00:05:21
Speaker
I really loved it.
00:05:22
Speaker
You know, totally different, if you like, to what I'd experienced previously.
00:05:27
Speaker
But, yeah, they make wonderful wines, really, really different in style to what I'm making now.
00:05:34
Speaker
But it was a friendly place to be.
00:05:36
Speaker
It was a relatively small country town, similar to what I live in now.
00:05:41
Speaker
But, you know, it was, yeah, I really loved it.
00:05:44
Speaker
I was there for six years and, yeah, I really grew up, I guess, as a young winemaker.
00:05:50
Speaker
No, awesome.
00:05:51
Speaker
No, I've been, I've done a little bit of wine tasting in America.
00:05:55
Speaker
I've done some wine tasting in Malibu and then also Santa Barbara as well.
00:06:00
Speaker
So we're about another, I suppose, hour and a half north of Santa Barbara.
00:06:04
Speaker
So kind of halfway between Monterey and Santa Barbara.
00:06:09
Speaker
Oh, awesome.
00:06:10
Speaker
Yeah, I really enjoyed Santa Barbara.
00:06:11
Speaker
One of my friends lived there, so I've traveled
International Winemaking Experiences
00:06:14
Speaker
up from LA to visit her.
00:06:15
Speaker
Yeah, I really, really enjoyed it.
00:06:17
Speaker
Yeah, it's a cool place.
00:06:19
Speaker
So you were saying you've worked in America, and I saw when I was researching for the questions that you've worked in wine all over the world.
00:06:26
Speaker
How is it different to winemaking in Australia, and do you have a favorite place?
00:06:32
Speaker
Not really.
00:06:33
Speaker
You know, to me...
00:06:35
Speaker
winemaking is quite universal around the world.
00:06:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:41
Speaker
As in, you know, there's different places, different sizes.
00:06:47
Speaker
You know, they all employ different techniques.
00:06:51
Speaker
But I suppose the thing that is most important is, you know, sort of how the winemaker thinks.
00:06:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:00
Speaker
You know, how open they are to tradition or not.
00:07:04
Speaker
Do they think outside of that?
00:07:07
Speaker
But if you're to take winemaking techniques, there's not a lot of difference, you know.
00:07:14
Speaker
Some are, you know, some wineries may be more technologically minded.
00:07:20
Speaker
Some may not.
00:07:21
Speaker
But it's really more about the ability of the winemaker to interpret the fruit that they have.
00:07:31
Speaker
Yeah, okay, that makes sense.
00:07:32
Speaker
And how they use all of those different techniques to make the wine the best they can.
00:07:39
Speaker
Okay, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
00:07:41
Speaker
Did you have a favourite place from where you've worked?
00:07:44
Speaker
I suppose, you know, each one has different challenges.
00:07:47
Speaker
You know, wine style-wise, you know, you really sort of get into whatever it is and where you are.
00:07:54
Speaker
So, you know, a lot of ways I've really appreciated all the places I've worked in.
00:07:58
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:07:59
Speaker
You know, you delve into the quality of what that region gives you and you try and make the best possible wine you can from the environment you're in.
00:08:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:12
Speaker
And, you know, a lot of – I've been lucky enough to work with good companies wherever I was.
00:08:20
Speaker
So, yeah, they're all just offered different experiences, you know.
00:08:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:24
Speaker
obviously have extracurricular outside of that as well, and that adds a lot to the experience.
00:08:33
Speaker
I've sort of taken and learnt from each one, enjoyed each one.
00:08:39
Speaker
Yeah, no, amazing.
00:08:40
Speaker
So do I have a favourite?
00:08:41
Speaker
No, I kind of don't really.
00:08:45
Speaker
Yeah, I can imagine like it would have been so different in each place it's kind of hard to compare them.
00:08:50
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:08:52
Speaker
And it's, yeah, so I've been fortunate enough to, you know, really have good experiences wherever I've been and take a lot from it.
00:09:03
Speaker
Amazing.
00:09:04
Speaker
Do you have a personal winemaking style or does it change depending on the seasons and where you're working?
Hands-off Winemaking Approach
00:09:11
Speaker
I'd say as much as anything, you know, I really don't try...
00:09:15
Speaker
Try and get the wines as close to being in balance as I can during fermentation and really not wanting to take anything away.
00:09:24
Speaker
So, you know, it's a relatively hands-off approach.
00:09:28
Speaker
We don't add anything to the wine.
00:09:30
Speaker
It's all natural ferment, you know, natural melo.
00:09:33
Speaker
You know, we don't add much sulfur, but we do add a little bit.
00:09:37
Speaker
But, you know, really trying to dial in the wine during its early stages.
00:09:45
Speaker
And as far as style goes, it's really what the vineyard, I think, gives me that determines the style and it's really trying to mould that the best way you can.
00:09:56
Speaker
But generally speaking, style-wise, you know, our wines are quite elegant.
00:10:01
Speaker
And you'd say that generally from orange.
00:10:05
Speaker
They're not trying to...
00:10:07
Speaker
be big and bold.
00:10:10
Speaker
I'm really trying to make wines that have got a lovely texture.
00:10:14
Speaker
I just love texture.
00:10:17
Speaker
It's the most important thing to me.
00:10:19
Speaker
And it can be a fine texture or a more obvious texture, but
00:10:24
Speaker
It's the play with tannin, you know, acidity, fresh fruit, always fresh fruit.
00:10:31
Speaker
But it's trying to, yeah, trying to make an interesting wine that makes you think.
00:10:36
Speaker
Yeah, no, amazing.
00:10:37
Speaker
And, yeah, I really enjoyed all of the wines when I came to Philipshore Wines.
00:10:40
Speaker
So that's always good.
00:10:42
Speaker
Yeah, we bought quite – I think we all bought quite a few when we were there, which is great.
00:10:47
Speaker
What wines are you drinking right now?
00:10:50
Speaker
I really try and drink a diverse range of wines from really, can I say, all over the planet.
00:10:58
Speaker
But I'm really trying to stay aware of what's happening in the world.
00:11:04
Speaker
So generally speaking, I do drink a lot of international wines.
00:11:10
Speaker
We've just bought a new vineyard here, and I'm really trying to think about
00:11:15
Speaker
you know, what might work well there.
00:11:19
Speaker
So, you know, just recently I'm sort of trying quite a lot of Beaujolais.
00:11:24
Speaker
I'm also really interested in the wines from Galithia.
00:11:28
Speaker
There's a variety there called Menthia, which I say.
00:11:32
Speaker
Okay, I don't think I've heard of that.
00:11:34
Speaker
Which I find really interesting.
00:11:35
Speaker
So it's in that sort of lighter red perfumed, yeah, sort of.
00:11:41
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:11:42
Speaker
You know, like pen and a white almost, if you like, if you have a comparison.
00:11:46
Speaker
But I really love those lighter red styles that are quite pretty but have depth and interest.
00:11:54
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:11:55
Speaker
And, yeah, just exploring, you know, different regions, different places.
00:12:01
Speaker
You know, I really love, yeah, I just really love good wine.
00:12:04
Speaker
So I look pretty hard to find
Exploring Global Wine Varieties
00:12:08
Speaker
it.
00:12:08
Speaker
Yeah, same here.
00:12:09
Speaker
I'd actually never tried a Beaujolais wine before, but I had another guest on who's really into them, so I actually ended up just buying a bottle and really enjoyed it.
00:12:20
Speaker
So, yeah, I think it's really good to kind of try lots of different wines or even things that you wouldn't think you'd like.
00:12:26
Speaker
It's good to just try everything.
00:12:28
Speaker
Yeah, so a lot of the time I just speak to the importers, and if I can find...
00:12:34
Speaker
someone that I like or, you know, I sort of give them an opportunity to say, you know, please send me what you like.
00:12:41
Speaker
Yes.
00:12:42
Speaker
And that way you kind of get unpredictable things that you may not otherwise buy.
00:12:47
Speaker
And then, you know, if you kind of connect with them, you see the quality, you understand what they think of quality, and then away you go.
00:13:00
Speaker
I just really like, yeah, trying lots of different things.
00:13:04
Speaker
Yeah, same here.
00:13:04
Speaker
Since I've started getting more into wine, I'm definitely trying lots and lots of different ones, which I'm really enjoying.
00:13:11
Speaker
So I definitely agree with that.
00:13:13
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:13:14
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:13:16
Speaker
And then otherwise, you know, I just try and have lots of different wines that I can –
00:13:21
Speaker
grab out of the cellar and try and match them with whatever I'm eating.
00:13:25
Speaker
And that's, you know, I take a lot of joy out of that, I suppose.
00:13:29
Speaker
What is your favourite food and wine pairing, if you have one?
00:13:33
Speaker
Talking about food and wine.
00:13:37
Speaker
I guess, you know, we work with, you know, a lot of different restaurants here.
00:13:42
Speaker
We're fortunate enough to get, you know, a lot of really good chefs coming through.
00:13:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:48
Speaker
You know, if there's, I've got to say, there's nothing that, there's lots of different things that I've tasted that are quite wonderful.
00:13:55
Speaker
One that really sticks in my mind was a deconstructed lemon meringue with our Riesling.
00:14:02
Speaker
That was quite amazing.
00:14:04
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:14:04
Speaker
That sounds amazing.
Memorable Food and Wine Pairings
00:14:06
Speaker
You know, we actually did a, we do a lot of small little pairings down at the Selador.
00:14:13
Speaker
There's a Wagyu beef brisola.
00:14:16
Speaker
with a Tasmanian pepperberry on it.
00:14:20
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:14:21
Speaker
With Shiraz.
00:14:22
Speaker
That's just amazing.
00:14:23
Speaker
You know, it really highlights kind of those peppery characters that we get here, that spiciness that we get in our Shiraz.
00:14:31
Speaker
So it's really beautiful.
00:14:33
Speaker
You know, fragoire and chardonnay.
00:14:36
Speaker
Chardonnay and actually make a little chicken rillette with a... Okay, yeah.
00:14:45
Speaker
a sparkling wine jelly on it and that with um well chardonnay is just amazing and the sparkling wine jelly sounds amazing as well by itself a little bit of time on it as well and oh wow but yeah yeah i really i really love i don't might sound a bit cliche but
00:15:04
Speaker
You know, I really love when you get that right, that food and wine thing, which is a really amazing thing.
00:15:15
Speaker
When it makes the food so much better and it makes the wine better, that's when, you know, it's when wonderful things happen.
00:15:22
Speaker
What wines grow best in orange?
00:15:23
Speaker
I feel like we slightly touched on this, but are there any varieties that grow really, really well?
00:15:28
Speaker
Yeah, orange is a really interesting place because it's defined by altitude.
00:15:33
Speaker
It's the only region, or one of the only regions in the world.
00:15:37
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:15:37
Speaker
So you've got to be above 600 metres, and give or take it, it gets close to 1,100 metres.
00:15:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:46
Speaker
After that, you're getting right up into the mountain.
00:15:49
Speaker
So it really depends where your vineyard is in that scale of elevation.
00:15:54
Speaker
Okay.
00:15:55
Speaker
So, you know, for us, we're at 900, 850 to 900 metres.
00:15:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:59
Speaker
And we can, you know, we make really fine, elegant, you know, Sauvignon Blanc, Pinot Noir and Chardonnay, but we can still get Shiraz, Merlot, you know, I'd say rite every year.
00:16:15
Speaker
But, you know, sometimes where we are, it's a little bit challenging with Cabernet Sauvignon.
00:16:20
Speaker
So, you know, we've got a crop really low.
00:16:22
Speaker
We're down to sort of two to three tonnes to the hectare.
00:16:26
Speaker
And Cabernet Franc sits pretty close to that, albeit it does ripen a little bit earlier than Cabernet.
00:16:32
Speaker
Okay.
00:16:33
Speaker
Okay.
00:16:33
Speaker
But you go much higher than where we are and it does start to become difficult for Shiraz and Merlot as well.
00:16:42
Speaker
But in the warmer years, you can definitely make wonderful Shiraz higher than where we are.
00:16:47
Speaker
So we're kind of, I guess when Dad was looking at where to plant the vineyard 30 years ago, he was really trying to find that
00:16:58
Speaker
elevation range where he could get all of those things right in most years you know we we do struggle in some years but yeah so you know for us we're lucky we can get a reasonably and it was a classic uh fruit salad vineyard that was um you know most uh
00:17:21
Speaker
I guess you'd say pioneers in a region tend to plant because, you know, there's not a lot of other vineyards around
Elevation-Based Characteristics of Orange Wines
00:17:29
Speaker
to get a perspective from.
00:17:30
Speaker
No, yeah, it's awesome.
00:17:32
Speaker
So, yeah, in orange, if you're a little bit lower or, you know, if you're in the lower elevations, it does tend to favour the bigger reds like, you know, Merlot, Shiraz, that type of thing.
00:17:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:44
Speaker
And then as you go higher,
00:17:47
Speaker
It tends to be more your Chardonnay, Pinot Noir, Sauvignon Blanc, sparkling wine, that kind of thing as well.
00:17:54
Speaker
So, yeah, it's quite a broad question because of that different elevations.
00:18:00
Speaker
Yeah, it depends where you are.
00:18:01
Speaker
Where's the new winery?
00:18:03
Speaker
Where's the new winery situated?
00:18:04
Speaker
The new vineyards are a little bit lower.
00:18:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:07
Speaker
So it's out on Bori Lane.
00:18:09
Speaker
It's called Bori Lane Vineyard.
00:18:12
Speaker
Okay.
00:18:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:13
Speaker
And it's between about or around, give or take, 750 metres.
00:18:18
Speaker
So still really good for Chardonnay.
00:18:21
Speaker
I don't think not so good for Pinot Noir or sparkling wine, but really also Vinon Blanc for that matter.
00:18:29
Speaker
But I think it's going to be, you know, really great for Chardonnay.
00:18:33
Speaker
I'm actually going to plant some Riesling there as well.
00:18:36
Speaker
Oh, awesome.
00:18:37
Speaker
I really, really love Riesling from orange.
00:18:40
Speaker
Yes, me too.
00:18:41
Speaker
I actually really enjoyed that as well.
00:18:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:44
Speaker
So, yeah, Riesling, a little bit of Pinot Gris, but it's also got the bigger reds as well.
00:18:53
Speaker
So Merlot, Shiraz, Cabernet Franc.
00:18:56
Speaker
You know, Cabernet Franc is something that I think Orange is really developing a reputation for as well.
00:19:04
Speaker
Okay.
00:19:05
Speaker
And I just really love Cab Franc and some of the styles you can make through it.
00:19:09
Speaker
What's it most similar to?
00:19:11
Speaker
I don't think I've tried it.
00:19:12
Speaker
I might have tried it, but I'm not sure I can.
00:19:14
Speaker
For us, the style I make, it's quite similar, I would say, to Chinon or the Loire-based cabinet front.
00:19:23
Speaker
So not...
00:19:24
Speaker
Not the bigger sort of cab frongs you get from Bordeaux, but I tend to make it in a slightly lighter, sort of prettier style.
00:19:33
Speaker
Okay, yeah.
00:19:34
Speaker
No, no, that sounds amazing.
00:19:36
Speaker
I'll have to try some next time I'm down.
00:19:38
Speaker
We've traditionally blended it with Merlot, but I've started just bottling a couple of barrels here and there.
00:19:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:46
Speaker
Next year, hopefully, I'll start to get into it a bit more as well.
00:19:52
Speaker
Yeah, no, it sounds amazing.
00:19:53
Speaker
Yeah, I'll definitely have to.
00:19:55
Speaker
So next time of year, can we give it a go?
00:19:58
Speaker
I definitely will.
00:19:59
Speaker
No, we'll definitely be back to Orange.
00:20:00
Speaker
We really enjoyed it.
00:20:01
Speaker
There were so many wineries we didn't get to go to, so I definitely think we'll be back for sure.
00:20:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:07
Speaker
Well, it's not far to come from Sydney.
00:20:08
Speaker
It's only three and a half hours.
00:20:11
Speaker
Exactly.
00:20:11
Speaker
It's not far at all.
00:20:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:13
Speaker
So, yeah, really good.
00:20:15
Speaker
Does Phillips Shore Wines have any exciting plans or new releases for 2021?
00:20:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:21
Speaker
Yeah, well, I was really hoping to have a Cabernet Franc, but, you know, the season hasn't allowed for that.
00:20:30
Speaker
So, you know, I'm bringing out a couple of small batch wines.
00:20:33
Speaker
Oh, awesome.
00:20:34
Speaker
Small batch, so Phillips Shaw Small Batch.
00:20:37
Speaker
And I'll release a Riesling this year.
00:20:41
Speaker
Yes.
00:20:41
Speaker
So, you know, I really want to start to develop our, you know, expertise, if you like, in Riesling.
00:20:48
Speaker
So I've made a small amount this year and I was really hoping to make a cab fronk as well.
00:20:56
Speaker
So, you know, going forward, hopefully that'll happen next year.
00:20:58
Speaker
We'll have a Riesling and Cabernet fronk.
00:21:02
Speaker
Yeah, so that's pretty exciting for us, a new sort of small range, if you like.
00:21:06
Speaker
Yes.
00:21:07
Speaker
And I'm going to bottle the Riesling next month and, yeah, we'll get started on it.
00:21:13
Speaker
excited.
00:21:13
Speaker
Get started.
00:21:14
Speaker
Sounds great.
00:21:15
Speaker
I was going to ask as well because when I looked on your website, you have quite a few different wine collections.
00:21:21
Speaker
Are there any main differences between them?
00:21:24
Speaker
Yeah, there are.
00:21:25
Speaker
There's, you know, I've got two, I suppose, I can say three different ranges.
00:21:30
Speaker
So, you know, every now and then, you know, I have a vintage or a wine that I just love.
00:21:38
Speaker
You know, you can see there's fruit in the vineyard.
00:21:41
Speaker
And the fruit comes into the winery and, you know, you fall in love every now and then.
00:21:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:49
Speaker
So, you know, I do bottle those as single wines and that's, you know, effectively a reserve range.
00:21:56
Speaker
And then underneath that is our number series.
00:21:59
Speaker
And that's, you know, all fruit off Albignard, Kumalo.
00:22:02
Speaker
And it's really picking the eyes out of Kumalo.
00:22:06
Speaker
So it's...
00:22:08
Speaker
Over time, you get to know the vineyard really well, and it's the particular clone.
00:22:14
Speaker
For most varieties, we've got seven to nine different clones in the vineyard.
00:22:18
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:22:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:20
Speaker
So you get to know each clone.
00:22:21
Speaker
You get to know where those, you know, the soils that those clones are on.
00:22:26
Speaker
And, you know, generally speaking, you know, year on year, the ones that perform really well perform that same way every year.
00:22:35
Speaker
So, you know, that's what goes into our number series.
00:22:39
Speaker
Okay.
00:22:39
Speaker
And generally those wines, you know, we'll see a little bit more Newark, so, you know, somewhere between 20% and 30%.
00:22:45
Speaker
Okay.
00:22:47
Speaker
You know, with the Pinot Noirs, they tend to have a lot more whole bunch in them.
00:22:53
Speaker
With the Shiraz, they've got a lot of whole bunch, so generally around that sort of 50% level.
00:22:58
Speaker
And then the character series...
00:23:01
Speaker
I tend to make just a little more obvious.
00:23:07
Speaker
The number series is fine and elegant and got depth and power, but the character series is more about friendly, approachable, but really definitely orange wines, if you like.
00:23:27
Speaker
Yes.
00:23:28
Speaker
A little less new work.
00:23:31
Speaker
mainly older barrels and then just trying to make them a little bit softer and a little bit more fruit forward.
00:23:38
Speaker
Character series is more about your everyday wine, if you like.
00:23:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:45
Speaker
Whereas another series is really kind of about thinking about it a little bit more.
00:23:51
Speaker
Yeah, that makes sense.
00:23:52
Speaker
It should be still pleasurable, which is the end goal of great wine, I think, is the pleasure it gives you.
00:24:01
Speaker
But, you know, it does offer you an opportunity to think about it a little bit more.
00:24:06
Speaker
That makes a lot of sense.
00:24:07
Speaker
I completely get that.
00:24:09
Speaker
What do you think the wine industry will see more or less of in 2021?
Challenges in Australian Wine Industry
00:24:14
Speaker
Well, you know, you'd say the wine industry is going through a reasonable upheaval, you know, as an entire industry with the happenings with China.
00:24:27
Speaker
Yes, definitely.
00:24:28
Speaker
You know, we're probably a little bit shielded from that in a way as, you know, this region generally wasn't selling a lot of wine in China.
00:24:39
Speaker
Okay.
00:24:39
Speaker
But, you know, I imagine for...
00:24:43
Speaker
some regions that were heavily invested in China.
00:24:47
Speaker
You know, there's some real changes afoot.
00:24:50
Speaker
There's a lot of redirection that people are going to have to make with their future markets and where they spend their energy.
00:25:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:02
Speaker
So, yeah, I'd say there's huge changes happening and about to happen.
00:25:06
Speaker
You know, that's difficult for a lot of people, I think.
00:25:11
Speaker
So I would say that would be the biggest thing that's, you know, on the industry's mind, on generally the whole industry, you know, redirecting its efforts.
00:25:23
Speaker
What regions do rely on China or did rely on them?
00:25:28
Speaker
Well, I'd say classically, you know, it would be the Barossa Valley and some of the South Australian regions producing, you know, those bigger, bigger, more obvious red wines.
00:25:40
Speaker
And, you know, they very successfully marketed themselves in the Chinese market.
00:25:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:46
Speaker
And, you know, who would have seen this coming?
00:25:49
Speaker
Exactly.
00:25:50
Speaker
It was actually a really positive thing for the wine industry.
00:25:55
Speaker
But unfortunately...
00:25:57
Speaker
that's turned very fast you know we had traditionally had a really strong market in in china but our importers situation changed about three years ago so we had uh we had gotten out of china about three years ago so we're we're very lucky in that regard but we certainly you know have started to look at other markets you know before this all happened but
00:26:22
Speaker
There was a general movement from the industry to try and promote itself in the US to really try and get back into that market, which was –
00:26:33
Speaker
10 years ago, or almost say 20 years ago now, a very successful market for Australia.
00:26:39
Speaker
But China was a great market for a lot of the industry.
00:26:45
Speaker
I just wanted to say congratulations on winning Australia's Best Seller Door Awards for 2021.
00:26:53
Speaker
What do you think goes into running a successful Seller Door experience?
Creating a Welcoming Cellar Door Experience
00:26:57
Speaker
For me, it's about...
00:27:01
Speaker
Trying to I guess show what we're trying to achieve in winemaking Yeah, and you know a lot of that is around you know what I spoke about with the food and wine You know, I think our wines should be drunk especially our number series with food and that's where you can really start to understand the textures that I try and put into those wines and
00:27:26
Speaker
So, you know, we really got quite an amazing food and wine pairing experience down in the cellar door.
00:27:35
Speaker
Oh, awesome.
00:27:36
Speaker
But, you know, in the end it's the staff that really make it.
00:27:39
Speaker
It's the people that you have that are translating what you're trying to achieve and kind of explain that to the people that are there so that they can...
00:27:51
Speaker
They can understand a little bit about you, a little bit about your history and hopefully the region as well.
00:27:57
Speaker
And do it in a way that's not stifling or difficult to understand.
00:28:03
Speaker
enjoyable and fun in a you know really beautiful setting yeah no definitely i definitely agree because before i was studying wine and doing wine tasting sometimes they go into such detail you're just like ah i don't think i understand you can you like simplify it a little bit but so yeah so you know it's about it's about enjoying the taste of wine
00:28:27
Speaker
Yes, definitely.
00:28:29
Speaker
The pleasure that I can give you.
00:28:30
Speaker
Yes, I definitely agree with that.
00:28:34
Speaker
Coming up to our last question, I just wanted to say thank you so much for joining me today.
00:28:39
Speaker
This is probably the hardest question of them all.
00:28:43
Speaker
But from Philip Shaw Wines, Wine Collections, which would you take to a dinner party, a barbecue, and give as a gift?
00:28:54
Speaker
I suppose you'd have to think a little bit about the person you're going to give it to.
00:28:58
Speaker
and what kind of wines they enjoy.
00:29:01
Speaker
But, you know, it does, you know, from my perspective or, you know, from a winemaker's perspective, you know, there are certain wines every year that, you know, I'm really proud of.
00:29:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:16
Speaker
And, you know, they tend to be, you know, wines that are favoured for that season.
00:29:21
Speaker
So not every season delivers every variety as well as another.
00:29:28
Speaker
So it kind of, in a way, it takes a little bit of research.
00:29:32
Speaker
But, you know, lately, you know, really proud of what we're doing with our Shiraz, you know, our 89 Shiraz is, you know, really happy with where the style's going.
00:29:47
Speaker
I feel comfortable with it now.
00:29:50
Speaker
And same with the Pinot Noir.
00:29:51
Speaker
You know, we just got the best Pinot Noir for the last couple of years in the New South Wales Wine Awards.
00:29:59
Speaker
Oh, congratulations.
00:30:00
Speaker
That's amazing.
00:30:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:01
Speaker
And then, you know, otherwise Chardonnay really does well from here.
00:30:05
Speaker
So, you know, I don't have a favourite that I always go to.
00:30:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:11
Speaker
You know, I try and read the person a little bit, understand what they like.
00:30:17
Speaker
and, you know, really give them a number series that works well for them.
00:30:22
Speaker
Yeah, amazing.
00:30:22
Speaker
And what would you take to a dinner party?
00:30:25
Speaker
Same kind of thing, you know.
00:30:26
Speaker
Same kind of thing, yeah.
00:30:28
Speaker
If I was going to a dinner party, I'd ask what are they having for dinner.
00:30:33
Speaker
And, yeah, depending on what the food was, I'd match the wine together with the food.
00:30:38
Speaker
Yeah, perfect.
00:30:39
Speaker
And same with the barbecue as well, I'm guessing.
00:30:41
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:30:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:43
Speaker
Because, you know, they might have Balmain bugs on the barbecue or lobster or it might be a great big steak.
00:30:50
Speaker
And they're going to be pretty different ones.
00:30:53
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:30:54
Speaker
I can definitely do that.
00:30:55
Speaker
I'd probably go out to the cellar and grab an old one and a young one and give it a go.
00:31:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:02
Speaker
give a little bit of difference yeah yeah yeah amazing well thank you so much for joining me today and taking time out of your busy schedule i can imagine as a winemaker you're very busy so thank you so much i really appreciate it yeah and you know obviously if you're up in orange next time give me a buzz and you know i'd love to show around the cellar and a bit of in-depth background
00:31:27
Speaker
Oh, that would be amazing.
00:31:28
Speaker
Thank you so much.
00:31:29
Speaker
Yeah, and I'd say that to all of the people that are listening, if you ever do come to Orange, send us a note ahead of time and I'd be happy to show you around.
00:31:41
Speaker
Thank you so much for listening.
00:31:42
Speaker
Please rate, review, subscribe and share with your friends.
00:31:46
Speaker
I'll see you next week for another closer look into the wine industry.
00:31:49
Speaker
Now go and grab that glass of wine.
00:31:51
Speaker
You deserve it.
00:32:20
Speaker
you