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The Shoalhaven - Raj Ray - Silos Estate
75 Plays4 years ago
On the sixth episode of Fine Vines and Wine, I'm joined by Raj Ray from the sustainable Silos Estate on the Shoalhaven Coast. We chat about everything to do with sustainability and running a successful sustainable business, moving from the city to the countryside and growing grapes in a maritime climate. Plus this episode has arrived just in time for the long weekend, so grab a glass of something delicious and take a listen! This is another episode jam packed full of interesting answers. Wines Mentioned on this episode (all available to purchase from @silosestate) Wiley's Creek Sparkling Shiraz - $30, Wiley's Creek Semillon Chardonnay - $22, Silos Estate 'Duck's Nuts' Shiraz 2010 - $60 and Silos Estate Cats Meow Rosé V2 2020 - $30.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Fine Vines and Wine'
00:00:07
Speaker
Hi everyone and welcome to Fine Vines and Wine.
00:00:10
Speaker
I'm your host Karis Pixie and each week I'll be giving you all an insight into the behind the scenes of our favourite beverage, wine.
00:00:18
Speaker
I'd love for you to use this podcast platform as a winery guide for your next weekend away, exploring everything Australia has to offer.
00:00:26
Speaker
You never know, you might discover a new spot or two to visit.
00:00:30
Speaker
I acknowledge the Cadigal and the Deringia peoples, traditional custodians of the land that we recorded today's podcast episode on.
00:00:38
Speaker
I pay my respects to the elders past, present and emerging, for they hold the memories, the traditions, the cultures and hopes of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples across the nation.
Guest Introduction: Raj from Sustainable Silos Estate
00:00:49
Speaker
On this episode of Fine Vines and Wine, I'm joined by Raj, owner of Sustainable Silos Estate.
00:00:55
Speaker
Welcome and thank you for joining me today.
00:00:57
Speaker
How's the beginning of your week been?
00:01:00
Speaker
Well, here we go.
00:01:03
Speaker
In 2021, a year where we hope it'll be a little bit different to 2020 for a whole bunch of reasons.
00:01:07
Speaker
So the week's been great and the year's been great so far too.
00:01:11
Speaker
Perfect.
00:01:12
Speaker
That's amazing.
00:01:14
Speaker
We'll jump straight into some questions.
00:01:16
Speaker
How long have you been working in the wine industry?
Career Shift to the Wine Industry
00:01:19
Speaker
Well, look, my girlfriend, or now my wife and I, we moved to the country about 14 years ago.
00:01:25
Speaker
And with a vast knowledge of drinking wine, we decided to go into the wine industry.
00:01:29
Speaker
So I'm not sure if that made us overqualified or underqualified.
00:01:33
Speaker
I'm pretty sure underqualified.
00:01:34
Speaker
But we've been working in the industry for about 14 years.
00:01:37
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:01:38
Speaker
That's ages.
00:01:38
Speaker
So have you always been interested in what, I guess, in drinking wine?
00:01:42
Speaker
And then what made you want to buy a winery and sort of work in this full time?
00:01:47
Speaker
Look, if it was to be fairly, you know, completely honest, we would say that we're really looking for a lifestyle change from our corporate careers.
00:01:54
Speaker
I used to be in financial services in American Bank.
00:01:58
Speaker
My wife was a lawyer and we were looking for something a little bit different, particularly to raise our children in the country.
00:02:04
Speaker
So moving to the country, it made a lot of sense to kind of start living off the land.
00:02:09
Speaker
And we then moved into the wine industry a little bit by accident, but a really nice accident too.
00:02:16
Speaker
There was a brief period where we were looking at leaving our corporate careers.
00:02:19
Speaker
We actually came to a restaurant nearby before my wife was posted overseas for a number of months discussing the important things that one does when one is late in a relationship, thinking about getting married.
00:02:31
Speaker
And then after she returned, she said, you're right, we should do something else.
00:02:35
Speaker
What do you think we should do?
00:02:36
Speaker
And I said, why don't we move to the place where we had dinner at?
00:02:39
Speaker
And that was the extent of our due diligence.
00:02:41
Speaker
But here we are 14 years later.
00:02:44
Speaker
Amazing.
00:02:45
Speaker
I love Silas Estate as well.
00:02:46
Speaker
So it's such a lovely story.
00:02:49
Speaker
How did you find the winery to buy?
00:02:52
Speaker
Was it just something, was it just up for sale and you were researching or?
00:02:55
Speaker
Look, I think at the time we just approached the owners and said, look, do you want to exit the business?
00:03:01
Speaker
And that was kind of how it came about.
00:03:03
Speaker
Really, one should do much more research than just drinking a glass of wine.
00:03:06
Speaker
But I think lots of winemakers often say that's how it comes about.
00:03:11
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:03:12
Speaker
It's all about experimenting and finding out what works for you as well.
00:03:16
Speaker
What's been your most memorable moment so far?
00:03:19
Speaker
There's lots of great things people talk about, vintages and meeting wonderful people.
00:03:24
Speaker
I think things like adversity can really be quite memorable in hindsight.
Silos Estate's Role During Bushfires
00:03:29
Speaker
We've dealt with the very Dorothy McKellar Australian, a famous Australian poet in the 1900s, I think, and it was a land of droughts and flooding rains and that's really lots of memories around extraordinary weather events like bushfires last year.
00:03:47
Speaker
75% of our region was burnt out through those terrible bushfires.
00:03:51
Speaker
Those are things you don't forget in a hurry and they've become a big part of the history of the place.
00:03:58
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:04:01
Speaker
I read in an article when I was doing a bit of research for this that you were one of the places that was like a safe haven for people from the fires as well.
00:04:12
Speaker
Yeah, we actually closed our entire operations for a couple of weeks and we became an evacuation centre.
00:04:17
Speaker
And we had 40 or 50 families here and about 100 animals.
00:04:21
Speaker
Probably a lot worse places to be an evacuation centre than a winery, I'd suggest.
00:04:26
Speaker
Oh, God, I can imagine my boyfriend's auntie lives down in Jarvis Bay and I know that she was very stressed because she kind of lives on a farm.
00:04:34
Speaker
So I can imagine it was very, very stressful and very scary.
00:04:38
Speaker
It was an extraordinary time, and yet there was more to come, wasn't there, with the floods and the global pandemic?
00:04:44
Speaker
So in the end, it's just another thing that tests you on the journey of life, which seems to be what living in the country is largely about.
00:04:54
Speaker
Yeah, no, but when, I mean, you guys were so busy when we came down, um,
00:04:59
Speaker
I think it was me and my friends and I came down in July, I want to say, and you guys were so busy.
00:05:04
Speaker
So it was good to see that you were still going and everyone was still keen to come to the winery.
00:05:10
Speaker
It's been fabulous.
00:05:11
Speaker
We've had wonderful community support.
00:05:13
Speaker
We make some nice wine, but I mean, lots of people make nice wine too.
00:05:16
Speaker
So it was nice to be able to share that.
00:05:19
Speaker
What was quite an interesting post lockdown
Commitment to Sustainability and Ethics
00:05:22
Speaker
time.
00:05:22
Speaker
So let's talk a little bit about silos and sustainability as you have a lot of measures in place.
00:05:29
Speaker
Why is it so important for you to be a sustainable business?
00:05:32
Speaker
I think there's an ethical component and there's a moral dimension as well.
00:05:37
Speaker
And I think that those have been talked about a lot.
00:05:40
Speaker
And so we'll leave that to the side.
00:05:41
Speaker
I think from a business point of view, it just makes sense to be sustainable.
00:05:45
Speaker
If you're using lots of chemicals, you're losing lots of machinery time and labour and fuel.
00:05:51
Speaker
It just doesn't make sense from a business point of view as well.
00:05:55
Speaker
But...
00:05:56
Speaker
People who are involved in the wine industry, and this is a bit of a generalisation, but people who are involved in the wine industry have a strong sense of attachment to the land.
00:06:06
Speaker
Silos also is in a region which has a long and rich Indigenous history.
00:06:12
Speaker
And the conversation in Australia, I believe, has really fundamentally changed in the last 12 to 18 months when we look to...
00:06:18
Speaker
our Indigenous history and what we can learn from it.
00:06:21
Speaker
So fire management practices, making sure that resources are harvested sustainably, maintaining waterways, all those kind of things, the conversations we're now having in Australia.
00:06:32
Speaker
And I think if you are going to run an agricultural business, of which the wine industry is a big part, you have to have a sustainability focus for a business point of view and also to leave, I guess, that cliche, the place better than you found it in.
00:06:48
Speaker
No, definitely.
00:06:49
Speaker
I really like that idea.
00:06:50
Speaker
And you guys have so many sustainable measures.
00:06:54
Speaker
If someone hasn't visited the winery, what are some of the most obvious sustainable measures that you guys have taken?
Innovative Practices at Silos Estate
00:07:01
Speaker
Well, I think the most visible ones that people would see is that we are carbon neutral for energy, so we're entirely solar powered on this state.
00:07:10
Speaker
We have actually Australia's at this point in time, I'm sure it'll change, but at this point in time, we have the largest electric vehicle charging station in Australia.
00:07:19
Speaker
We charge 16 vehicles at a time for our visitors.
00:07:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:23
Speaker
We don't irrigate.
00:07:25
Speaker
We have repurposed all our waste in really interesting and innovative ways.
00:07:34
Speaker
Our great market, the dairy farmers here, who use it as feed for cattle, which reduces methane emissions for them, and we're not burning it off.
00:07:42
Speaker
We've used our waste wine bottles for glass, and the glass is actually used for road building, so we use it as...
00:07:51
Speaker
aggregate for building roads and pipe beds.
00:07:54
Speaker
So it's on the demand side.
00:07:56
Speaker
So let's think about energy.
00:07:58
Speaker
And it's on the, I guess, the supply side as well.
00:08:01
Speaker
If you pick up our wine bottles, you'll see that our labels are recycled paper.
00:08:05
Speaker
Now, what's interesting about that is that that occurred in 2007.
00:08:09
Speaker
And as far as we can tell, we're one of the first wineries in the world to do that.
00:08:13
Speaker
Now, that's not going to save a rainforest.
00:08:16
Speaker
Let's not kid ourselves.
00:08:18
Speaker
But it's a start, and that's how things change when you start small and grow bigger.
00:08:25
Speaker
The other thing is, you know, we were, I guess, one of the first people to start using low-carbon bottles.
00:08:30
Speaker
I should acknowledge there was lots of people who did it before us, but probably we were certainly amongst the first, I think.
00:08:37
Speaker
And, look, we were a founding member of Earth Hour,
00:08:40
Speaker
We're a founding member of the Business Coalition on Climate Change.
00:08:44
Speaker
There's been things we've been involved with for a long time that we've been kind of wanting to... And not all of them have worked, let's be honest.
00:08:53
Speaker
We thought some things were good ideas and they actually weren't, whereas other things have really been part of our business, like repurposing waste wine bottles, recycle paper for labels, et cetera.
00:09:05
Speaker
turning back to the electric car vehicle charging station.
00:09:10
Speaker
Have more people discovered your cellar door because of this?
00:09:13
Speaker
And where did that idea come from?
Enhancing Visitor Experience with EV Charging
00:09:15
Speaker
Well, we built Australia's first, what we believe we built Australia's first electric car charging station outside of Sydney Metro in 2007.
00:09:23
Speaker
And that was something that we built ourselves, you know, scrambling through our high school textbooks to try and understand how these things might work and then using some local services to build that in place.
00:09:37
Speaker
And so for the first three or four years, we had, you know, maybe a car every couple of months or so.
00:09:43
Speaker
Then soon afterwards, Tesla launched in Australia and they approached us to put in some destination charges, which we put in.
00:09:51
Speaker
And we had two of those.
00:09:53
Speaker
And then about three or four years ago, we were approached to bid for a large...
00:09:59
Speaker
supercharging station so the next one along is about another 250 kilometers down the road here uh south and if you head north you're in sydney to get to the next one so it's quite a substantial facility and it largely uses renewable solar and wind power to charge people's cars electric vehicles you know it's really about big data so if you're barreling down the highway and you've got 20 kilometers left on your car perhaps charge it'll actually tell you to pull into silos
00:10:27
Speaker
What we've discovered is that we're able to have, we've met some amazing people, people who are really at the forefront of early adopters, they're being early adopters, and that has meant that we've been introduced to electric vehicles and they've been introduced to wine.
00:10:43
Speaker
So there you go.
00:10:44
Speaker
So it's perfect, perfect all round.
00:10:47
Speaker
Exactly.
00:10:48
Speaker
How long does it take to charge a car?
00:10:50
Speaker
Look, the ones that we built, you know, all those years ago, it must be 14, 15 years ago, are astonishingly slow.
00:10:57
Speaker
You know, it would be 24 hours to charge your car for it.
00:11:00
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:11:01
Speaker
But the new ones that we've got in place, you'll charge your car to 80% of its capability in about 20 minutes.
00:11:07
Speaker
So I was talking to Peter Dillon from Handpicked Wines on the third episode, and we discussed the Sustainable Wine Growing Australia program.
00:11:17
Speaker
Is this something you're involved in too?
00:11:19
Speaker
Have you heard of it?
00:11:20
Speaker
So there's a number of programs around Australia around sustainability and certification, and they range from consumer side all the way back to supply side, I guess.
00:11:32
Speaker
We've dabbled in a few of these and look, they haven't really been for us.
00:11:37
Speaker
not because the principles aren't ones we share, we do share principles, but a lot of these things require quite a substantial amount of investment in paperwork and ongoing audits and certifications.
00:11:51
Speaker
And certainly for small businesses, businesses like ours, that is...
00:11:55
Speaker
in excess of what we're capable of doing.
00:11:58
Speaker
So we have our own systems and tools here.
00:12:00
Speaker
They're largely automated, which track, for example, our water consumption, electricity consumption, fuel consumption, estimated CO2 emissions and all those kind of things.
00:12:11
Speaker
And that's what we use to manage our operations.
00:12:14
Speaker
And really our benchmark is to produce more with less.
00:12:18
Speaker
So I think over the 14 years, we now produce about three to four times as much wine as we did when we started.
00:12:27
Speaker
And things like our energy consumption has halved, our pesticide consumption is down 90%.
00:12:36
Speaker
So in real terms, we're driving probably a tenfold improvement for the same amount of resources.
00:12:43
Speaker
And that's kind of how we try and run our business in a way that meets those principles, but without having to do all the paperwork that's associated with it.
00:12:53
Speaker
Just going slightly off the questions,
00:12:57
Speaker
You guys are not organic, right?
00:13:01
Speaker
No, we're not organic.
00:13:03
Speaker
And organic is true organic, is very rewarding, but it's also very challenging.
00:13:09
Speaker
Like, for example, you have to have an exclusion.
00:13:12
Speaker
If you're going to do true organic, you should have an exclusion zone around your property.
00:13:16
Speaker
Exclusion zones...
00:13:18
Speaker
you know, in a place where land costs $100,000 an acre, that's probably not something that you can do easily or do in a way that would be 100% compliant.
00:13:30
Speaker
So we are not organic and we're very clear about that, but we try and have as light a touch on the environment as we possibly can.
00:13:37
Speaker
As possibly, yeah, because I know as well it takes three years to get certified, so it's a long process as well.
00:13:44
Speaker
Wow, I didn't know that.
00:13:45
Speaker
I know it took a long time, but I didn't realise it was three years.
00:13:48
Speaker
So when I first visited Silas Estate, you were talking about, you talked about the Silas Estate Foundation and how you have different charities and the tasting fee goes towards a charity and the customers can pick which charity it goes towards.
00:14:05
Speaker
How do you pick the ones that you work with?
00:14:07
Speaker
So our foundation, I should be clear, is a foundation in name.
00:14:11
Speaker
It's not tax registered.
00:14:13
Speaker
We use it to funnel our donations.
00:14:16
Speaker
The tax registration piece is quite complex, but the money flows directly to them.
00:14:22
Speaker
We support about 200 charities a year on average.
00:14:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:25
Speaker
But the three main ones are involved around education, domestic violence and landmine clearing.
00:14:30
Speaker
And the education of domestic violence, we're actually personally involved with those charities.
00:14:37
Speaker
On the former, something like 100-plus students have been sent to university in TAFE who otherwise could not have afforded to go.
00:14:45
Speaker
On the domestic violence, we fund a number of services in our regions from the tasting fees that we...
00:14:57
Speaker
The landmine clearing one is really a personal interest of both my wife and I. We have visited a number of these countries where landmines are still a very insidious problem.
00:15:09
Speaker
And we've been able to get involved with a number of European-based charities who are involved in
Community Support and Charity Initiatives
00:15:15
Speaker
landmine clearing.
00:15:15
Speaker
Where did the idea come from for the foundation?
00:15:19
Speaker
Well, I think when we made the active decision to move to the country, we decided that we would kind of have a purpose driven organisation.
00:15:28
Speaker
That's probably a little bit of an overused term these days, but it describes what we wanted to do.
00:15:35
Speaker
And so the team that we have here is fabulous and they all buy into and subscribe into the principles around not only do we create
00:15:44
Speaker
We believe great wine, great experience for people.
00:15:48
Speaker
But on top of that, we also ensure that our organisation does more than just make wine, but is great citizens in the communities that we live and work in.
00:16:00
Speaker
That's amazing.
00:16:01
Speaker
I love that idea.
00:16:02
Speaker
So I don't think I've seen any other winery do it.
00:16:05
Speaker
It's something a little bit different, which I really like.
00:16:08
Speaker
Yeah, look, it's a big part of our ethos and we're delighted to be able to do it.
00:16:12
Speaker
Can you tell me a little bit more about the wine scholarship program that you offer?
00:16:16
Speaker
Yeah, look, so we have a fabulous program down in our region, which the TAFEs here have what's called a celebrity chef's evening.
00:16:27
Speaker
And we have astonishingly highly regarded chefs who come down, who give of their time for two or three days, and they train and educate the youth of our region into lives outside our region and also into the food industry.
00:16:43
Speaker
Now, we have partnered with them and we do the same with wine.
00:16:46
Speaker
And so we've had a number of years where we've provided a wine scholarship.
00:16:51
Speaker
Now, with that, the students receive about a week to two weeks with us over the course of a year, going through the whole cycle of wine production from the day we harvest all the way through to the day that we sell.
00:17:08
Speaker
So, you know, picking, making, bottling, marketing, selling.
00:17:15
Speaker
And then on top of that, we actually fund some further studies for them as well if they want to do so.
00:17:23
Speaker
And, you know, I think we've had four or five winners so far and all of them have gone on to bigger and better things.
00:17:33
Speaker
Only two of them have maintained in the industry.
00:17:35
Speaker
Others have gone on to other things, but it's been fairly formative in part of their life's journey.
00:17:42
Speaker
That's amazing.
00:17:43
Speaker
And how do you pick who gets the scholarship?
00:17:45
Speaker
Look, we don't pick.
00:17:46
Speaker
The educators do.
00:17:49
Speaker
And we just fund and support it.
00:17:52
Speaker
Amazing.
00:17:53
Speaker
I thought that was so interesting when I read that.
00:17:55
Speaker
So I definitely had to ask about it.
00:17:58
Speaker
Also, sorry, I'm going off topic a little bit again.
00:18:01
Speaker
What does a typical day look like for you at Silos Estate?
00:18:05
Speaker
If there is a typical day?
00:18:07
Speaker
Look, I think if you asked any winemaker what does a typical day look like, apart from the rhythm of the seasons around, you know, harvest time or manufacturing time, perhaps after you've made the wine and you're doing bench trials and bottling and maybe vineyard maintenance around the time of pruning and all those kind of things, there really isn't a typical day, particularly if you're involved in the whole value chain, as we are.
00:18:33
Speaker
There are some wineries who are just involved in perhaps growing grapes or
00:18:37
Speaker
perhaps just making the wine.
00:18:40
Speaker
But, you know, the couple of thousand small cellar doors in Australia that exist, they do everything.
00:18:45
Speaker
Everything from making the wine to knocking on restaurant doors to distribute the wine.
00:18:51
Speaker
So, you know,
00:18:53
Speaker
perhaps it might be what is the next big thing i need to do today which i didn't need to do yesterday and can't wait till tomorrow so yeah that's that's the way i suspect most of the uh winemakers in the 2000 odd small cellar doors in australia would say yeah definitely um
00:19:14
Speaker
What grape varieties are you currently growing and what's the difference between the wines under Silas Estate and the wines under Wiley's Creek?
00:19:23
Speaker
Look, to be honest, a small winery like us, we're growing far too many varieties.
00:19:28
Speaker
We're growing seven varieties.
00:19:30
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:19:31
Speaker
That's a hangover from the previous owners and we've been gradually slimming them down and we'll probably migrate to four.
00:19:38
Speaker
The four main ones that we'll probably focus on,
00:19:42
Speaker
Malbec and Shiraz.
00:19:45
Speaker
And in the white, it'll be Sav Blanc and Semillon.
00:19:48
Speaker
Now, in the whites, we also have Chardonnay at the moment.
00:19:52
Speaker
And in the reds, we also have Cabernet.
00:19:54
Speaker
Really, things like Cabernet and Chardonnay do it a little bit tougher.
00:19:57
Speaker
We're a maritime climate here.
00:20:00
Speaker
And so Sav Blanc with very small type bunches and Semillon with very big bunches with thick skins give you a better chance.
00:20:11
Speaker
And in the reds, the Malbec and Shiraz share those similar characteristics.
00:20:15
Speaker
Look, we have two brands here, and Wiley's Creek is grown elsewhere.
00:20:19
Speaker
It's not grown here.
00:20:21
Speaker
We also grow in Adelaide Hills in Rinella.
00:20:23
Speaker
Oh, awesome.
00:20:25
Speaker
Near Rinella.
00:20:26
Speaker
We also grow a little bit in Yarra Valley and we just partner with people to grow and make the wines in those places.
00:20:32
Speaker
And the real reason we do that is the climate here is not conducive to some of the things that we want to make.
00:20:38
Speaker
And a good example is we make a sparkling and that sparkling, I mean, you just don't get the right kind of acid and flavour profiles in a maritime climate.
00:20:48
Speaker
So we grow those in Yarra Valley.
00:20:52
Speaker
And that's the main difference between the two.
00:20:54
Speaker
Oh, awesome.
00:20:56
Speaker
What grapes grow best in a maritime climate?
00:21:00
Speaker
Well, here I might do a shout out to our region, which is the Shoalhaven region, and a grape variety that is grown by all the other winemakers here, which actually I don't grow, is something called Chambassan.
00:21:11
Speaker
And Chambassan is a French hybrid that was brought into Australia, I believe, by the Casella family of Port Macquarie, which would share a similar climate profile to us, perhaps a touch warmer.
00:21:24
Speaker
And, you know, they have very thick skins and they're very resilient in humid, wet conditions, which is what a maritime climate tends to give you.
00:21:33
Speaker
I don't grow it because personally I don't particularly like it.
00:21:36
Speaker
There's nothing wrong with it.
00:21:38
Speaker
It's just not something that I enjoy.
00:21:41
Speaker
But what it means is if you get adverse weather conditions in terms of wet weather, it still works very well here.
Sponsorship Message: WineSave
00:21:50
Speaker
And so my colleagues in the industry...
00:21:52
Speaker
Pretty much no matter how bad the season is, they're always harvesting something.
00:21:56
Speaker
Whereas if I have a bad season, I tend not to get very much because the weather's gone against me.
00:22:02
Speaker
Don't leave just yet, we'll be right back after this short break.
00:22:06
Speaker
Do you ever open a bottle of wine when you're hosting a party or just want a couple of glasses at home and for some reason you don't actually finish it?
00:22:13
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00:22:18
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00:22:23
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00:22:32
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00:23:02
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00:23:08
Speaker
Happy sipping.
00:23:09
Speaker
What does, I don't know if I've actually tried it.
00:23:11
Speaker
What does it taste like?
00:23:12
Speaker
What's it most similar to?
00:23:14
Speaker
Now, there's a question.
00:23:16
Speaker
I would have trouble describing it.
00:23:18
Speaker
It's a French hybrid that's actually used in France as a blending grape.
00:23:23
Speaker
So it has quite strong colour.
00:23:26
Speaker
It has very strong colour, kind of purply red rather than purply black.
00:23:32
Speaker
It tends to be, it can be a bit lighter, and so often people add tannin into the kind of the production process, either by gauging or adding tannin.
00:23:44
Speaker
I've had some really interesting, funky Chambesans in a sparkling context.
00:23:50
Speaker
Okay.
00:23:51
Speaker
So I know there's somebody down here that makes a sparkling Chomperson that they do with a partner up in the Hunter Valley.
00:23:59
Speaker
Okay.
00:24:00
Speaker
But, look, I'm not doing well, am I?
00:24:03
Speaker
As a winemaker, I should be able to give you good word pictures.
00:24:06
Speaker
I struggle a little bit with it because it's kind of a slightly different taste to what people use in terms of, you know, talking about, you know, blackberries or plums or whatever.
00:24:16
Speaker
It's not quite in that kind of league for that red star.
00:24:21
Speaker
But some people swear by it.
00:24:23
Speaker
They absolutely love it.
00:24:24
Speaker
That's their drink of choice.
00:24:26
Speaker
What do you think the wine industry will see more or less of in 2021?
Industry Trends and Challenges
00:24:32
Speaker
Look, I think the wine industry is going through some macro changes in Australia.
00:24:36
Speaker
Clearly, something that's exercising everybody's mind is climate change.
00:24:41
Speaker
And we have seen over the last 10 or so years a steady migration out of the hot regions around South Australia and probably the Riverlands to increasing number of wineries being established in places like Tasmania and Mornington Peninsula.
00:24:57
Speaker
I think that's a trend that's going to continue.
00:25:00
Speaker
I think there is a trend that's occurring to European style winemaking.
00:25:06
Speaker
So historically, you know, we've been known for big, bold, high alcohol.
00:25:10
Speaker
I think that's changing and you're seeing a lot of newer styles and varieties coming in and they are no longer new.
00:25:18
Speaker
I mean, even 10 years ago, the notion about Pinot Grigio, Pinot Gris, Nabilo, Tempranillo, these are now starting to appear more and more in bottle shops and they tend to have a more European rather than a sort of 80s, 90s Australian style.
00:25:35
Speaker
And look, I think there's a kind of a macro issue, isn't there, where a substantial portion of our harvest and production was heading to China.
00:25:43
Speaker
Now, with the Chinese market having essentially effectively closed its doors to Australia, what does that mean for colleagues in the wine industry about whether they'll be able to find new markets and
00:25:58
Speaker
Does that mean that Australian wine drinkers are in for a great couple of years with great wines that are much cheaper price?
00:26:05
Speaker
Or does it mean that we just look to fill other markets to take Australian wine?
00:26:11
Speaker
Look, these are big questions, which I think lots of people are searching the answers to at the moment.
00:26:17
Speaker
What, do you have any plans in the works for Silas Estate for 2021?
00:26:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:22
Speaker
Look, our plans continue to revolve around our sustainability focus.
00:26:27
Speaker
So we're looking at driving even bigger changes in our energy consumption and energy production.
00:26:36
Speaker
We are looking at expanding our operations.
Future Sustainability and Market Adaptation
00:26:38
Speaker
We have a very peculiar situation down here where we lost a substantial portion of our vineyard to a highway expansion here.
00:26:47
Speaker
So we lost about 6,500.
00:26:51
Speaker
square metres of vines.
00:26:52
Speaker
So we will have to replace and renew.
00:26:56
Speaker
And look, I think the other thing is at a much smaller level, we face the challenges that the bigger operators do.
00:27:04
Speaker
You know, what does the China situation mean for us?
00:27:07
Speaker
What does climate change mean for us?
00:27:10
Speaker
In fact, in the last four years, we've experienced three years of drought, three in one in 20 year floods and
00:27:19
Speaker
probably the worst bushfires in the last couple of hundred years.
00:27:24
Speaker
That seems to suggest that we have to expect more and more climate-related challenges.
00:27:30
Speaker
And how do we make ourselves resilient to that?
00:27:34
Speaker
We can't change the climate.
00:27:36
Speaker
We need to adapt to what's going on.
00:27:39
Speaker
And that will exercise a fair bit of our minds, I think, over the next few years.
00:27:44
Speaker
No, definitely.
00:27:45
Speaker
There's definitely a lot to think about and a lot of change is happening, especially with climate change as well.
00:27:50
Speaker
I feel like it's the way people were growing the grapes and the way people were making the wine might have to change a little bit.
00:27:56
Speaker
So just going off topic again, sorry.
00:28:00
Speaker
Because you have such a big sustainable focus, what are your thoughts on the natural wine industry?
00:28:06
Speaker
Because natural wines are sort of having a bit of a, not a comeback even, it's such a growing part of the industry.
00:28:13
Speaker
What are your thoughts on it?
00:28:15
Speaker
I think it's fabulous.
00:28:16
Speaker
You know, I think that's one of the things I really love about wine, which is setting aside that kind of black art, very officious and priggish part of our industry, which thankfully is becoming less and less where people swirl the wine and claim that they can smell the disappointment in it because the person who picked it was named Nigel and his girlfriends left him and all those kind of nonsensical things.
00:28:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:41
Speaker
Wine that you like, I may not enjoy, but I like something else.
00:28:46
Speaker
I get introduced to stuff that other people like and I go, wow, you know, not something I would have normally done, but I really like it.
00:28:52
Speaker
And on and on it goes.
00:28:54
Speaker
It's such a personal thing with so many things that it brings to the table.
00:28:59
Speaker
I was having a wine, oh, it must have been a few weeks ago, and for some reason I can remember clear as day I'm about six years old sitting in a classroom
00:29:09
Speaker
in the country I grew up, which is India.
00:29:12
Speaker
Now, I need to clarify, I wasn't drinking wine at the age of six sitting in a classroom in India.
00:29:18
Speaker
But I remember smelling it and for some reason it triggered this memory.
00:29:22
Speaker
Now, if you'd asked me to recall the classroom at the age of six and what I was doing, I would have had no recollection of it at all or very vague recollections.
00:29:31
Speaker
And yet this, you know, triggered a very deep sense of memory that I've obviously retained.
00:29:38
Speaker
I love that about wine.
00:29:39
Speaker
You know, people talk about memories of the event or memories that it takes them back to.
00:29:46
Speaker
I love the history and the passion and the love that goes into it.
00:29:51
Speaker
This is an industry which is a business.
00:29:54
Speaker
I mean, look, wine is a serious business, but it's not a serious drink.
00:29:59
Speaker
And I think that the drink gives you so many wonderful aspects of our industry, the people you meet, the memories you have and the memories you create.
00:30:10
Speaker
Yeah, no, definitely.
00:30:11
Speaker
I love that wine can sort of bring back memories like that.
00:30:14
Speaker
I think it's...
00:30:15
Speaker
Really nice.
00:30:16
Speaker
It's kind of the same with, I guess, if someone has a meal or eat something, then they also get that memory as well.
00:30:24
Speaker
What wines are you drinking right now going off that?
00:30:28
Speaker
Now, I have to confess, I haven't been drinking very much lately at all.
00:30:31
Speaker
I'm an older father.
00:30:34
Speaker
My kids are back at school and I seem to be rushing from netball to camps to soccer to all sorts of things.
00:30:42
Speaker
So your kids bouncing up and down on bed at 5.30 in the morning is probably not entirely conducive to having enjoyed a nice bottle of red before.
00:30:52
Speaker
But look, in general, I'm really enjoying some of the newer varieties that I'm seeing around, that I'm trialling.
00:30:59
Speaker
I am enjoying the lighter style wines.
00:31:02
Speaker
This is not something I really used to enjoy.
00:31:04
Speaker
Okay.
00:31:06
Speaker
I like the bolder wines.
00:31:09
Speaker
I don't use the word charismatic, but, you know, the kind of wines that we were known for in Australia.
00:31:15
Speaker
Excuse me, the heavier Shirazes, the big, big Chardonnays.
00:31:21
Speaker
But some of the lighter European-style wines, I had a Tempranillo recently, which I was quite taken aback by.
00:31:32
Speaker
Is it ridiculous to say it reminded me a little bit of a high-quality Pinot?
00:31:36
Speaker
Maybe.
00:31:36
Speaker
I mean, I don't know, but that was the sense I got away with it, and I really enjoyed that.
00:31:43
Speaker
So I wonder if my tastes are changing because I'm becoming a little bit older or whether actually I'm preferring the more subtle ones.
00:31:52
Speaker
Certainly when I look at our visitors now, there is kind of a movement away from heavier to lighter,
00:32:01
Speaker
and from bold to subtle.
00:32:04
Speaker
So I don't think I'm alone in that.
00:32:06
Speaker
No, definitely not, especially with people being more into the lower alcoholic wines as well.
00:32:12
Speaker
I feel like, yeah, people are kind of stepping away from those really, really alcoholic, bold flavours and going to more of the lighter, less alcoholic wines.
00:32:22
Speaker
So, no, I completely agree with that.
00:32:25
Speaker
I'd agree with you as well.
00:32:26
Speaker
touching on um you have an alpaca farm on the property which um i love and i also read that you're the largest you host the largest outlet on the south coast for local alpaca producers sorry um where did the idea for the alpacas come from is that to do with the sustainability or is that just a random idea
00:32:48
Speaker
Look, it is to do with sustainability.
Environmental Benefits of Farm Alpacas
00:32:52
Speaker
We carry livestock here, as most farms do, I guess.
00:32:55
Speaker
But a lot of research to try and understand what would have the lowest impact on the environment.
00:33:00
Speaker
And to give you some examples about alpacas, you know, a dairy cow will drink, I don't know, 60 to 70 litres of water a day.
00:33:06
Speaker
An alpaca will drink three or four.
00:33:09
Speaker
So if you're talking about one of the driest continents on Earth, an animal that drinks a twentieth of the water per day makes more sense.
00:33:19
Speaker
They have splayed feet rather than hooves, so they have a very gentle touch on the land.
00:33:26
Speaker
When you watch a cow or a sheep eat, you watch them and when they eat, they kind of rip it out of the ground a little bit and I'll pack a nipple of it like a lawnmower.
00:33:34
Speaker
um so it maintains the pasture and maintains the structure look there's no nice way to say this but cows and sheep they uh they burp and they fart a lot and they account for uh something like i believe uh maybe it's not to quote me on this but i think i've read and heard about 50 of our greenhouse gases in australia through meat whereas alpacas are far more efficient ruminants so for a variety of reasons
00:34:00
Speaker
They are far more sustainable from an environmental point of view.
00:34:04
Speaker
On top of that, Karis, I have to tell you, I'm a complete sissy.
00:34:07
Speaker
I'm a city boy.
00:34:09
Speaker
So dealing with a 70 kilo angry alpaca, of which we have very few, is much more palatable to me than dealing with a one and a half ton angry bull.
00:34:20
Speaker
And given my general wussiness from having grown up in a city, that fits my bravery profile perfectly down to the ground.
00:34:32
Speaker
I know you said you're not drinking that much at the moment, but do you have a favourite food and wine pairing?
00:34:38
Speaker
Because you have a restaurant on site as well.
00:34:41
Speaker
We do.
00:34:42
Speaker
And look, I probably don't have a favourite, but I would say, you know, the thing that we always talk about with our guests is, you know, wine is kind of a social lubricant and our pairing with wine is good company.
00:34:56
Speaker
That's really what we say.
00:34:58
Speaker
How often have I had a fabulously highly regarded bottle of wine with company
00:35:04
Speaker
that wasn't that fabulous and I have very little to say about it.
00:35:08
Speaker
And conversely, we've had lovely but cheaper wine with great company and, you know, nice food and we have very fond memories of it.
00:35:18
Speaker
But, look, if I was to answer the question a bit more directly, down on the south coast here we have fabulous, fresh, vibrant local produce.
Wine Pairing with Local Produce
00:35:27
Speaker
Having our Sauv Blanc with freshly harvested oysters just off Greenwood Point here is a slightly spiritual experience, I would suggest.
00:35:36
Speaker
Conversely, you know, having a 12-hour slow-cooked alpaca shank with one of our reds is something you don't forget.
00:35:48
Speaker
quickly with the open fire and yeah so I think it it's it's horses for courses coming up to our very last question thank you so much as well for joining me today it's been so interesting um this is probably the hardest question but from the wines that you produce which would you take to a dinner party a barbecue and a picnic
00:36:11
Speaker
Look, I think let's start with the easy one, which is the quintessential Australian sort of psyche, which is the barbecue.
Wine Selection for Social Gatherings
00:36:17
Speaker
We make an astonishing sparkling Shiraz here.
00:36:21
Speaker
We use quite premium Shiraz grapes.
00:36:23
Speaker
I have to tell you, it's slightly frightening.
00:36:24
Speaker
It's about 14% alcohol, so it is one of the higher alcohols.
00:36:28
Speaker
But you get berries and cranberries on the mid-palate.
00:36:31
Speaker
It's a lovely rich red that we've made into a sparkling in a kind of chamomile method.
00:36:37
Speaker
That would be my number one choice to take to a barbecue.
00:36:41
Speaker
It would also be my number two choice and it would also be my number three choice.
00:36:44
Speaker
I mean, it's sparkling charade.
00:36:46
Speaker
That's the winner.
00:36:48
Speaker
In terms of a picnic, well, look, if it's a summer's picnic sitting out, you're going to go for, I would suggest, a slightly lighter style wine.
00:36:56
Speaker
We do make Semi-Or Chardonnay, an unusual blend, which is a slightly heavier style, or if you want something a bit lighter, a Semi-Or Sauvignon Blanc.
00:37:05
Speaker
How many people make Semi-Or Sauvignon Blancs?
00:37:07
Speaker
I think...
00:37:08
Speaker
You see pictures of it with cavemen as part of the first wines that they ever make.
00:37:13
Speaker
Look, it's a bit clichéd, but it works.
00:37:15
Speaker
The acidity of the semi-alances out the fruit of the sauv block.
00:37:19
Speaker
And in terms of a dinner party, well, what dinner party are you having?
00:37:23
Speaker
If it's a big wintry one, we have a duck's nut Shiraz, which we're quite well known for.
00:37:28
Speaker
If it's a summery dinner party, we have a Provence-style rosé called a cat's meow rosé, named after our original resident cat here.
00:37:38
Speaker
And it's a beautiful peach orange colour.
00:37:41
Speaker
You get watermelon, strawberries, good acidity, and we're quite well known for that.
00:37:45
Speaker
So there you go.
00:37:46
Speaker
I cheated.
00:37:47
Speaker
I didn't give you three.
00:37:48
Speaker
I gave you about five or six, but really it covers all manner of sins, doesn't it?
00:37:53
Speaker
Yes.
00:37:53
Speaker
No, that's perfect as well.
00:37:54
Speaker
A lot of people have been saying this question is really helpful because if they are going to a dinner party, sometimes people have no idea what to take.
00:38:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:02
Speaker
People are finding it very, very helpful.
00:38:04
Speaker
But no, I just want, and I love your rosé as well.
00:38:06
Speaker
I actually have a bottle of it in my wine fridge.
00:38:08
Speaker
So yes, no, I just wanted to say thank you so much for joining me this morning.
00:38:14
Speaker
It's been so interesting and it's been great to get an insight into a sustainable winery.
00:38:20
Speaker
But yes, thank you so much.
00:38:21
Speaker
And I'm glad we could arrange another time and get the interview done.
00:38:26
Speaker
Well, thank you for having me.
00:38:27
Speaker
It's been lovely to chat about what we do here and we look forward to hosting you again sometime soon.
00:38:34
Speaker
Thank you so much for listening.
00:38:36
Speaker
Please rate, review, subscribe and share with your friends.
00:38:39
Speaker
I'll see you next week for another closer look into the wine industry.
00:38:43
Speaker
Now go and grab that glass of wine.
00:38:44
Speaker
You deserve it.
00:39:13
Speaker
you