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The Limestone Coast - Justin Moran & Stephen Tierney - The Hidden Sea Wine
85 Plays4 years ago
On episode four of Fine Vines and Wine I’m joined by not one, but two guests; Justin Moran (co-founder) and Stephen Tierney (winemaker) for The Hidden Sea Wine - a wine brand making a difference. We discuss their newest wins - going up against Kylie Minogue and Sarah Jessica Parker’s wines and winning the People’s Wine Choice Awards and smashing a major goal in their first 7 months. We also talk about the Limestone Coast where their wines are made, what it’s like to run a successful business and some new and exciting drops that are in the works. This episode is jam-packed, so grab yourself a big glass of wine and get listening.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Fine Vines and Wine'
00:00:07
Speaker
Hi everyone and welcome to Fine Vines and Wine.
00:00:10
Speaker
I'm your host Karis Pixie and each week I'll be giving you all an insight into the behind the scenes of our favourite beverage, wine.
00:00:17
Speaker
I'd love for you to use this podcast platform as a winery guide for your next weekend away, exploring everything Australia has to offer.
00:00:26
Speaker
You never know, you might discover a new spot or two to visit.
00:00:30
Speaker
I acknowledge the Katigal and the Boendik and the Nagarun-Jurai people, traditional custodians of the land that we recorded today's podcast episode on.
00:00:39
Speaker
I pay my respects to the Elders past, present and emerging, for they hold the memories, the traditions, the culture and hopes of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples across the nation.
Meet the Guests: Hidden Sea Wines
00:00:50
Speaker
So on this week's episode of Fine Vines and Wine, I'm joined by Hidden Sea Wines co-founder Justin Moran and winemaker Stephen Tierney.
00:00:58
Speaker
Thank you so much for joining me.
00:01:00
Speaker
How have your weeks been?
00:01:02
Speaker
Thanks for having us.
00:01:03
Speaker
Yeah, we're in the start of harvest here in the Limestone Coast, so it's good to get
00:01:14
Speaker
So, so far, so good.
00:01:15
Speaker
Amazing.
00:01:16
Speaker
Justin, how's your week been?
00:01:17
Speaker
Yeah, it's fantastic.
00:01:19
Speaker
Thank you.
00:01:19
Speaker
Thanks for having us on the podcast.
00:01:21
Speaker
We're excited to be here and it's a real honour.
00:01:23
Speaker
But, yeah, my week's been fantastic.
00:01:25
Speaker
I just wanted to say a massive congratulations on your Wine Passion Award for the People's Choice Wine Awards and also another congratulations on removing 1.2 million plastic bottles from the world's oceans in seven months.
00:01:39
Speaker
It's incredible and such an amazing achievement.
00:01:42
Speaker
How did you both feel when you heard the
Awards and Environmental Achievements
00:01:44
Speaker
news?
00:01:44
Speaker
Yeah, so I'll start with the Leicester Award, which is the People's Choice Awards.
00:01:49
Speaker
It's very exciting because of who we're going up against, you know, people like Sarah Jackett, Jessica Parker's wine, Connor Mone's wine.
00:01:57
Speaker
So there's a bit of star power and I thought maybe that, you know, we wouldn't be recognised.
00:02:04
Speaker
But it's another tick in the box for us that what we're doing is important.
00:02:09
Speaker
And that's clearly evident in the results we're getting, you know, to remove over 20,000 kilos, 22,000 kilos of plastic out of our ocean in seven months is a real tangible thing.
00:02:20
Speaker
And it couldn't be possible without the people and the fans we've got behind our brand.
00:02:24
Speaker
So really, really excited.
00:02:26
Speaker
I guess they're both married to each other, People's Choice Award and people voting with their mouth, so to speak, that allows us to remove so much plastic out of the ocean.
00:02:35
Speaker
Yeah, no, it's absolutely amazing.
00:02:37
Speaker
Were you hoping to do that in seven months or did you beat your goal?
00:02:42
Speaker
Yeah, well, we changed our messaging July 1.
00:02:46
Speaker
When I say messaging, our consumer promise, we've been, the brand's been in existence now six years, but it wasn't until we got our consumer promise and partnered with the ReCee project that we can make a real quantifiable, understandable promise, and that is for every bottle of the
00:03:04
Speaker
will remove the equivalent of 10 500 mil single-use plastic water bottles.
00:03:08
Speaker
With help of great ambassadors of our product and fans, I honestly didn't think we'd get anywhere near that so quickly.
00:03:14
Speaker
Although we have a really bold goal, Carice, is that we want to remove 1 billion plastic water bottles from the world's ocean by 2030.
00:03:22
Speaker
I thought it would be a slow start, but yeah, it's very exciting.
00:03:26
Speaker
Really, really exciting.
00:03:27
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like you'll definitely get there before 2030 for sure at this rate.
00:03:33
Speaker
It's great to say so much momentum so quickly.
00:03:36
Speaker
Yeah,
Consumer Messaging and Environmental Impact
00:03:37
Speaker
definitely.
00:03:37
Speaker
I feel like with these sorts of things, with initiatives like that, people seem to be more likely to buy the wine because they know it's going towards a good cause.
00:03:45
Speaker
Do you guys agree?
00:03:46
Speaker
Yeah, I do.
00:03:48
Speaker
However, we've given hundreds of thousands of dollars to ocean health charities.
00:03:52
Speaker
The number one thing for us is, and there's so many brands doing things like that, which is fantastic, raising awareness, whether it's 1% for the profits for the world or whatever the initiative is.
00:04:04
Speaker
However, I don't think consumers really understand unless you can be really directing your messaging.
00:04:09
Speaker
We collect on kilos and then we can convert that kilos into something people understand.
00:04:14
Speaker
So it's all about the messaging.
00:04:16
Speaker
And for us, we're committed to making a tangible difference that people can easily understand.
00:04:22
Speaker
Yeah, it's definitely all about the messaging.
00:04:24
Speaker
I completely
Wine Favorites and Industry Insights
00:04:25
Speaker
agree.
00:04:25
Speaker
Do you guys have a favorite wine from the collection?
00:04:29
Speaker
For me, I think out of 2020, the rosé was a standout.
00:04:33
Speaker
Don't get me wrong, we love them all, but I do tend to drink with the season, so whether it aligns more with summer.
00:04:40
Speaker
Yeah, I know the colleagues, people we put the wines in front of, the rosé is certainly delivering above expectations, which is great.
00:04:48
Speaker
Closely followed by the Shiraz and Chardonnay, but rosé is a bit on trend as well, so...
00:04:53
Speaker
I think that's resonating.
00:04:55
Speaker
Yeah, and I was going to say the rosé is my favourite as well, but I do love rosé.
00:05:00
Speaker
All of them.
00:05:02
Speaker
No, yeah, I think the rosé, because we came a little bit late into the rosé trend and we weren't
00:05:10
Speaker
Our first take we didn't release, we weren't that happy with it, but the rose we've done under the hidden sea is shot the lights out.
00:05:16
Speaker
I think we sell now to six major markets around the world, six or seven.
00:05:20
Speaker
And the rose, especially when we get out of Australia, is compared to Provence a lot, especially in the US and UK, it's Provence, Provence, Provence style rose.
00:05:30
Speaker
And we're winning the listings on the back of our rose, which is really encouraging.
00:05:36
Speaker
And I think it looks best.
00:05:37
Speaker
It looks fantastic on the shelf as well with the white and the pink.
00:05:41
Speaker
So yeah, probably the rose.
00:05:43
Speaker
You know, the packaging is gorgeous.
00:05:44
Speaker
And yeah, I can see what you mean.
00:05:45
Speaker
Like the white, the label really stands out against the rose as well, which is lovely to see.
00:05:50
Speaker
How long have you both been working in wine?
00:05:53
Speaker
For myself, it's sort of 20 plus years, which makes me feel old.
00:05:58
Speaker
But yeah, it's a great industry to be in.
00:06:01
Speaker
I've had the opportunity to travel and work in different countries and it's the people you make.
00:06:05
Speaker
You share a bottle of wine with someone, unique experience and forever got that memory.
00:06:10
Speaker
But something we talk about internally is creating memories and moments.
00:06:13
Speaker
And if the wine can assist in that, then that's great.
00:06:16
Speaker
The wine industry is something that we're all very passionate about.
00:06:19
Speaker
It doesn't feel like we're coming to work.
00:06:21
Speaker
For me, it's something I love.
00:06:22
Speaker
So whether it's talking to growers and looking at fruit and assessing different varieties in the vineyards to talking to customers or people doing podcasts, for example.
00:06:32
Speaker
Yeah, for me, I launched into the wine industry.
00:06:36
Speaker
Feet first in February 2013.
00:06:39
Speaker
So I was baptised by fire, so to speak.
00:06:43
Speaker
The industry I love.
00:06:45
Speaker
There's so many characters in our industry.
00:06:47
Speaker
And as Steve mentioned, it's
00:06:50
Speaker
Sometimes it doesn't feel like we're going to work.
00:06:52
Speaker
And then the beauty of our industry can be the exact opposite.
00:06:55
Speaker
You know, if you just think about what we've been through this year, the last 12 months, we've, we went, we had bushfires.
00:07:02
Speaker
First we had droughts, then we had bushfires, then we had floods.
Industry Challenges and Global Promotion
00:07:07
Speaker
Then we had coronavirus.
00:07:09
Speaker
So it's got extreme highs and extreme great times because it's all about great people with lots of, lots of character.
00:07:18
Speaker
And then,
00:07:18
Speaker
we're exposed to the elements so whatever that brings so it's it's a really interesting industry you know it's so interesting 2020 was just a massive year for the wine industry with lots of hits but i feel like so many the people that have come out the other side just seem to be doing amazing things so
00:07:36
Speaker
Some things have worked out for the best, I guess.
00:07:38
Speaker
Do you guys have any memorable moments that you've experienced during the wine journey?
00:07:43
Speaker
I know a lot of winemakers have been saying that it's about the people and it's about the experience and the memory that creates.
00:07:50
Speaker
When I saw this question, I don't know how to answer it because I feel like every week there's a...
00:07:58
Speaker
Especially in our industry, you know, we're fortunate enough to sell wine into major markets, what's going on in China and Australia.
00:08:07
Speaker
There's always something, but I guess I always focus on the positive.
00:08:11
Speaker
And from our point of view with the Hidden Sea, the engagement with people in our brand is being really overwhelming.
00:08:20
Speaker
As you know, Chris, we're trying to build a movement with the Hidden Sea.
00:08:23
Speaker
It's not just about a drinking moment.
00:08:25
Speaker
And we've reached out to people to be part of our movement.
00:08:28
Speaker
And we're really fortunate that we've got over 200 people globally who want to talk and promote our wine because of why we do what we do.
00:08:36
Speaker
We don't pay people to do that other than sharing our product.
00:08:40
Speaker
And that's been the highlight for me.
00:08:42
Speaker
We launched that ambassador campaign for people to come along on our journey.
00:08:45
Speaker
And to think that we've got over 200 with people like yourself,
00:08:49
Speaker
Leanne Beachley, Sammy Lucas, you know, just to name a few.
00:08:53
Speaker
Really, really grateful for people that believe in what we believe in.
00:08:58
Speaker
So that has to be my highlight.
00:08:59
Speaker
Yeah, no, definitely.
00:09:01
Speaker
It's been great to get behind and I love supporting brands that are doing something different or helping out the environment.
00:09:09
Speaker
So it's like the perfect collaboration.
00:09:11
Speaker
And also the wines are amazing.
00:09:12
Speaker
So that definitely helps.
00:09:14
Speaker
You touch on a good point there.
00:09:17
Speaker
I get often, I get asked a lot, well, your wines are really delicious.
00:09:22
Speaker
Because our marketing seems slick from the outside and our passion for what we're doing, we just don't lead with that because I don't think it separates us.
Marketing, Quality, and Regional Exploration
00:09:30
Speaker
In our industry, at $15 plus, there's not a bad wine out there on the shelves.
00:09:35
Speaker
There's so much great wine.
00:09:37
Speaker
So how do you differentiate yourself?
00:09:38
Speaker
And it's certainly not on quality, even though that's really important to us.
00:09:42
Speaker
And I know Steve will...
00:09:43
Speaker
is really passionate about what happens in our vineyards because that might seem a reflection of what ends up in our bottle.
00:09:49
Speaker
But it's just not our lead message, but it's super important.
00:09:52
Speaker
And I think as well, if I'm in a bottle shop and I'm looking for something and I'm not sure what I want to drink, I'll always go off the label as well, which I know you probably shouldn't.
00:10:02
Speaker
The people say you should probably like read the back, but even having like an eye-catching label is just perfect as well because people will see it and it'll stand out from the rest too.
00:10:11
Speaker
always mentions marketing sells the first bottle and winemaking's obviously got to meet expectations and we want consumers to come back and continue to purchase and continue to explore the wines we make.
00:10:23
Speaker
The labelling's amazing and I'm sure Justin can talk to that some more but I guess from the winemaker's perspective we're looking to over deliver on everything that we put in bottle and make sure that whilst we understand the price point we're playing in, making sure that what goes into bottle is equal to or better than the year before and
00:10:41
Speaker
And also understanding we're up against competitors that are trying to do exactly the same thing.
00:10:46
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:10:47
Speaker
Stephen, do you have a most memorable wine moment from your wine journey as a whole?
00:10:52
Speaker
Yeah, it's a hard one.
00:10:53
Speaker
A lot of time spent in the field, not only the fruit flavours, but also understanding what the vine's doing and what the canopy's doing, trying to get the balance of tannin ripeness with reds as well as fruit ripeness.
00:11:04
Speaker
On whites, obviously we want the fruit flavours to be there, but also...
00:11:08
Speaker
having the vibrancy with the acid.
00:11:10
Speaker
At the end of the day, Mother Nature still plays a big part.
00:11:13
Speaker
It would be beautiful as well being able to see the sea from the vineyards as well.
00:11:17
Speaker
I can imagine that's a beautiful view.
00:11:20
Speaker
It is.
00:11:20
Speaker
It is quite spectacular.
00:11:22
Speaker
I guess the other benefit with vineyards on the coast, just with the water patterns, we do get an upwelling in the Southern Ocean.
00:11:31
Speaker
this time of year so which actually drops the freezing temperatures of the southern ocean even more which then gives us cooler nighttime temperatures so our brightening periods are extended so we get more delicate flavors as opposed to some of the warmer inland regions where if you can get a heat spike and nighttime temperatures remain higher then that fruit development is accelerated so yeah we get that brightness in our
00:11:59
Speaker
and Mount Benson Shiraz especially, higher natural acid, which gives you greater colour intensity.
00:12:04
Speaker
Mount Benson is a unique region, as they all are.
00:12:07
Speaker
And I guess the point to sort of illustrate is each region does have its own particular characteristics, and it's just trying to understand that.
00:12:14
Speaker
So as a winemaker, to be able to work with those different regions and be able to blend is exciting.
00:12:20
Speaker
While we can't internationally travel, I'm trying to visit all the different wine regions within Australia, so I'll definitely add that one to my list.
00:12:28
Speaker
Plenty of great cellar doors in the regions for you to visit for sure.
00:12:31
Speaker
Justin, where did the idea for Hidden Sea come from and why did you pick to focus on cleaning up our ocean?
00:12:37
Speaker
Gee, well, how long do we have?
00:12:40
Speaker
Let's start from the very beginning.
00:12:42
Speaker
When we entered into the wine industry, I wanted to build a brand that acted like a...
00:12:48
Speaker
A traditional brand, however, had a higher purpose that could give back.
00:12:52
Speaker
And getting to know the Limestone Coast, you may or may not know, is that there's lots of different ancient sea relics where it led me to a vineyard in Rattenbully, where today underneath the vineyard there still lies in a cave an estimated 26 million-year-old fossilised whale.
00:13:08
Speaker
It's called the Whale Bone Vineyard.
00:13:10
Speaker
So that vineyard is about 100 kilometres if the crow flew south to the ocean.
00:13:15
Speaker
So once upon a time, that was all covered.
00:13:19
Speaker
There's a marine mammal got trapped there and after many millions of years is now underneath the vineyard.
00:13:24
Speaker
So I thought what a great story to bring to life.
00:13:28
Speaker
And from our point of view, being new in the wine industry where we're feeling stories are so important, we can't...
00:13:33
Speaker
compete with three generations of winemakers and we thought we'd bring that story to life.
00:13:38
Speaker
So the Hidden Seas are playing play on words.
00:13:42
Speaker
All the vineyards on the limestone coast is basically the old seabed so the Hidden Sea, the whale, I thought it was a great story and then we engaged with an artist called John Contino based in New York to bring it bring all that to life because
00:13:54
Speaker
Big fan of art hand illustration.
00:13:57
Speaker
So that's the story.
00:13:58
Speaker
And then it was a natural link to give back to our oceans because our vineyards are basically the old seabed.
00:14:04
Speaker
So that was the thought process.
00:14:06
Speaker
How did you pick who did the design for the bottle?
00:14:09
Speaker
I absolutely love the label.
00:14:10
Speaker
I think it's amazing.
00:14:11
Speaker
I haven't seen anything like that before.
00:14:13
Speaker
As you get to another brand, we have a philosophy that everything matters from the wine in the bottle to the packaging.
00:14:18
Speaker
to what we do, our sustainability thinking around the entire practices of our business.
00:14:24
Speaker
But I'm a fan of street art and hand illustrators and I was a fan of a guy called John Contino and based in Brooklyn, New York and we approached him.
00:14:33
Speaker
He's still our design ambassador so he heads up all the new packaging, label designs, bottling, everything we do.
00:14:40
Speaker
He's still part of our makeup and
00:14:42
Speaker
Yeah, he was up for the challenge.
00:14:44
Speaker
He's done some amazing work from Louis Vuitton, Nike, more relevant for the fucking years.
00:14:48
Speaker
We just won the Super Bowl.
00:14:50
Speaker
He's rebranded all these companies and to have him in our mix and our camp and a believer in what we're doing is a great honour.
00:14:56
Speaker
What do you both think the wine industry will see more or less of in 2021?
00:15:01
Speaker
we're seeing hearing tasting in the market is i think aromatic whites sort of more textural flavor of the month and then reds lighter bodied reds earlier drinking sort of less oak influence to some degree ones that again two over the top that you don't need to make and keep in barrel for two or three years and then
00:15:20
Speaker
five years in the cellar before they're ready to be consumed wines that are approachable younger i think with covid people being caught in restrictions and staying at home people are probably exploring a little bit more and experiment with new varieties and new regions but also understanding that there's a lot of great wines made in australia and people are sort of pushing the boundaries a bit which is great
00:15:40
Speaker
I've definitely found since not being able to travel that I've definitely been trying a lot of different wines and trying to drink only Australian wines and seeing what the Australian wine industry has to offer first.
00:15:53
Speaker
I actually just categorized my wine fridge the other day so I knew because I'm going to Orange this weekend.
00:15:58
Speaker
So I wanted to, before I bought a whole heap of wine, I wanted to know what was in there.
00:16:02
Speaker
And I was actually quite surprised that I only had one French bottle and the whole rest of them were Australian.
00:16:07
Speaker
So that was quite nice.
00:16:11
Speaker
yeah, it's kind of taught us to focus more on Australia and sort of travelling and giving back to the economy and that sort of stuff.
00:16:18
Speaker
So it's definitely had some positives, not being able to travel internationally.
00:16:22
Speaker
Australians are very, very lucky.
00:16:24
Speaker
Being fortunate enough to try wines all around the world, you know, if I was anywhere in the world and I wanted a good Boba Wano,
00:16:41
Speaker
ratio than other parts of the world, especially in the US and for that matter France, we really punch above our weight.
00:16:48
Speaker
So we're fortunate to drink Australian wine in our country.
00:16:51
Speaker
I don't think we really realise how lucky we are when it comes to quality and price ratio.
00:16:56
Speaker
Is there a lot of Australian wine choices in Copenhagen?
00:17:00
Speaker
Yeah, not really.
00:17:01
Speaker
Cabernet is an interesting wine city.
00:17:05
Speaker
It's probably the number one natural wine movement in the world.
00:17:10
Speaker
It's probably got one of the most famous natural wine bars being Man Friends here.
00:17:13
Speaker
So the traditional, all the cool cat niche guys are drinking mineral intervention, if not no intervention.
00:17:20
Speaker
Some of those wines can be extremely challenging.
00:17:22
Speaker
There's argument of whether they are actual wines or they're faulty.
00:17:26
Speaker
But yeah, no, it's not a large market.
00:17:29
Speaker
However, saying that, Denmark as a whole is the seventh largest export country for wine Australia.
Management Challenges from Afar
00:17:35
Speaker
So that's made up of a lot of maybe the entry level wines, not the ones we specialize in.
00:17:40
Speaker
So I had a quick question just going off completely off topic, but how do you manage an Australian business whilst living in Copenhagen?
00:17:48
Speaker
Is that difficult because you can't travel at the moment?
00:17:51
Speaker
Do you just put all of your trust in Steve?
00:17:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:56
Speaker
Well said, Chris.
00:18:00
Speaker
I mean, really great question.
00:18:02
Speaker
I wish I had a dollar for every time I'm asked for that.
00:18:04
Speaker
Don't leave just yet.
00:18:06
Speaker
We'll be right back after this short break.
00:18:08
Speaker
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00:18:17
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00:19:10
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Happy sipping.
00:19:13
Speaker
You know, we've been quite fortunate to have a team of great people scattered around Australia, if not around the world, to work on brands and Hidden Sea in particular.
00:19:24
Speaker
But my business partner, Richie Vandenberg, is the CEO of our business.
00:19:28
Speaker
He's got a good understanding.
00:19:30
Speaker
He's a third-generation winemaker.
00:19:31
Speaker
He's got a winemaker, wine grower.
00:19:34
Speaker
great grower I should say, and he's got a good grasp on the agricultural side of the business.
00:19:40
Speaker
I traditionally head up sales and marketing.
00:19:42
Speaker
Prior to the lockdown, I was constantly on an aircraft.
00:19:46
Speaker
So 2019, I was eight round trips back to Australia, I think four to the US, five or six into China, and then multiple trips in and out of Europe.
00:19:56
Speaker
And, you know, we've built strong relationships.
00:19:58
Speaker
So COVID, all it's done is that we've switched to the digital format through Zoom.
00:20:04
Speaker
But yeah, we've built strong relationships.
00:20:06
Speaker
It's all, from my point of view, it's all about getting in front of people and building relationships.
00:20:10
Speaker
And with all due respect, you can't do that sitting in a cellar door or a winery in Australia.
00:20:16
Speaker
So we're fortunate enough to have people like Steve in our business, who is a great winemaker,
00:20:22
Speaker
and obviously the support through um other people and more importantly richie my business partner we'll move completely on from covid and we'll just jump straight into what wines are you both drinking right now lots well obviously the first answer is hidden see that's all we drink um yeah no no i'm joking but um
00:20:47
Speaker
of wine like we all do.
00:20:49
Speaker
I found a Spanish wine recently, Diminio del Aguilera.
00:20:55
Speaker
Diminio del Aguilera.
00:20:56
Speaker
Sorry about my pronunciation, but a really interesting story.
00:20:59
Speaker
Jorge Monza, who was the second winemaker at Romney Contini, actually won the lotto, believe it or not.
00:21:06
Speaker
So probably one of the world's most renowned wines.
00:21:10
Speaker
winemaking teams, he won the lotto and then went back to his hometown, Riviera del Du in Spain, and he's producing these stunning wines.
00:21:20
Speaker
I'm drinking at the moment, it's a blend of Grenache, Tempranillo, Albignol, it's a really interesting red blend with a little bit of white in there.
00:21:28
Speaker
So that's what I'm drinking at the moment.
00:21:30
Speaker
Awesome.
00:21:31
Speaker
Steve, what about you?
00:21:32
Speaker
Being vintage, so tasting plenty of ferments each day.
00:21:35
Speaker
You tend to drink a few bit of beer during vintage as winemakers as well, just to cleanse the palate.
00:21:39
Speaker
But again, sort of the textural whites.
00:21:43
Speaker
I shared a bottle of Greek wine, Robola, with a friend that was down last week.
00:21:48
Speaker
So that was interesting just to see what different countries can produce.
00:21:52
Speaker
And then the reds, one of the guys that we worked with, Ash Ratcliffe from Ricotera, is again those blends of early drinking reds.
00:22:02
Speaker
Some of the varieties there, Le Grand, Nero Diablo, sort of challenging the norm.
00:22:07
Speaker
It doesn't need to be your full-bodied, over-oaked reds and wines that are approachable earlier.
00:22:13
Speaker
Lighter alcohols as well as probably just looking for something different and seeing what's in the market.
00:22:17
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:22:18
Speaker
you know, what people are interested in.
00:22:20
Speaker
No, definitely, I can see that low alcohol and non-alcoholic wine are having a big moment at the moment.
00:22:27
Speaker
I mean, I've tried a couple and some taste exactly the same and then some don't.
00:22:32
Speaker
And you wish you were just drinking a normal wine.
00:22:35
Speaker
Do you guys have plans to do a non-alcoholic range or a low alcoholic range?
Focus on Traditional Wines vs. Trends
00:22:40
Speaker
You know, I think picking earlier and getting lower bonoes on the fruit and getting that more lighter European style, which our region lends itself to perfectly, is probably the trend which we'll follow.
00:22:52
Speaker
And, you know, we'll talk about it.
00:22:54
Speaker
We're working on a Shirara right now, Shirara's which is softer,
00:23:00
Speaker
you know more fruit driven lighter style um picked a little earlier but when it comes to non-alcohol wines you know i know it's a trend and if you read the stats the growth is huge but off what base a very small base it's just not what we're about you know we want people to drink responsibly and we want to have lighter style wines but i'm yet to taste any zero alcohol wine and i've tried a few now which i would want to purchase and i think it's a little bit of an oxymoron there's plenty of other products out there you can drink
00:23:29
Speaker
I don't think it needs to be zero alcohol wines.
00:23:31
Speaker
That's only my view.
00:23:32
Speaker
I don't think we'll end up on that path.
00:23:34
Speaker
Steve?
00:23:35
Speaker
Yeah, I certainly agree.
00:23:38
Speaker
Like it's 0% beer.
00:23:40
Speaker
I'm sure it's got its place, but at the end of the day, I think it's okay to have a drink if it's responsibly.
00:23:45
Speaker
Again, back to the wine styles, it's the Grenaches and Pinot Noir seems to be the ones that are on trend.
00:23:53
Speaker
It's not the heavy, rich, over-right styles that are sort of tracking
00:23:58
Speaker
Having said that, I tend to drink with the season, so if you are going to go for a bigger bowl of red, it's probably more something in winter than in the current climate.
00:24:07
Speaker
So I do think the Australian climate is suited to the lighter styles.
00:24:11
Speaker
Carissa, what's your thoughts?
00:24:12
Speaker
What's your take on Zero Alcohol?
00:24:14
Speaker
I know you said you've tried some.
00:24:16
Speaker
What's your thoughts on it?
00:24:17
Speaker
Do you think that it's got a place in the market?
00:24:20
Speaker
I mean, I had another podcast last year with a friend where we interviewed people within the hospitality industry in Sydney and we had co-founder on from Craft Zero, which is a non-alcoholic sort of marketplace online and, you
00:24:36
Speaker
He bought with him a couple and one of them, I thought it tasted exactly the same.
00:24:40
Speaker
And when I was on antibiotics earlier this year, I bought a couple of those bottles to have just when we had friends over, just so I didn't feel left out when they were all drinking.
00:24:50
Speaker
And I definitely really enjoyed that.
00:24:52
Speaker
But then he bought another one, which I really didn't like at all.
00:24:56
Speaker
I didn't think it tasted.
00:24:57
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:24:58
Speaker
And I'd rather have a glass of alcohol over that.
00:25:00
Speaker
But I feel like it's good for people, for pregnant women.
00:25:05
Speaker
I can imagine if I was pregnant and not drinking for nine months, I might want to have something that tasted or something that made me feel like I wasn't left out if I was going to a party or something like that.
00:25:15
Speaker
So I kind of think there is a place for it, but I would probably pick an alcoholic.
00:25:20
Speaker
I'd probably pick a glass of wine over a non-alcoholic glass of wine if there was a choice.
00:25:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:24
Speaker
Well,
00:25:30
Speaker
when you're building teams and a business is you've got to have some cultural values.
00:25:36
Speaker
And I think it's difficult to say to your team, right, we're going to work some non-alcoholic wines and some alcoholic wines.
00:25:43
Speaker
I think you've got to pick a lane and stay in your lane and become good at that and hone your craft.
00:25:50
Speaker
You know, if we believe the tendency
00:25:56
Speaker
I think it's difficult to do two things very well.
00:25:59
Speaker
So that lighter style, lower alcohol, I think is fine, but that's what we're trying to move towards with the hidden sea more and more.
00:26:09
Speaker
But zero alcohol is not something for us.
00:26:11
Speaker
I'll leave it for other people to have a crack at.
00:26:14
Speaker
No, I do agree with you.
00:26:15
Speaker
I feel like if you're a non-alcoholic brand, that should probably be what you stick with and what you work on rather than a winery doing.
00:26:23
Speaker
I know some wineries release non-alcoholic wine, but under a different name.
00:26:27
Speaker
So it's not associated with their wine label.
00:26:29
Speaker
But I do get what you mean.
00:26:31
Speaker
And if you're doing it, you should probably just stick to that and like perfect it.
00:26:36
Speaker
Correct.
00:26:36
Speaker
Fair enough.
00:26:37
Speaker
Definitely.
00:26:38
Speaker
Do you have any plans in the works for Hidden Sea for 2021?
00:26:42
Speaker
Are there any new releases such as a sparkling or are there any goals that you're hoping to smash?
00:26:49
Speaker
We don't have plans for a sparkling.
00:26:51
Speaker
It's not to say that there may not be one in the future, but...
00:26:54
Speaker
again pinot grigio is a style that we are looking to make out of vintage 2021 as opposed to the gray so we are looking for some sort of higher acidity more refreshing crisper style grenache we've touched on again more fruit driven lighter body and then just as justin also alluded to earlier i'm looking at shiraz but more
00:27:17
Speaker
early approachable fruit-driven wines that don't necessarily have the same level of concentration.
00:27:22
Speaker
Picking out select parcels in vineyards to try with, we'll come out of vintage and see where we get to.
00:27:27
Speaker
And again, hopefully we can over-deliver and continue to challenge the norm.
00:27:31
Speaker
Yeah, I don't want to.
00:27:33
Speaker
We have we actually do have some plans in the making for sparkling rose.
00:27:40
Speaker
We talked about just recently, Stephen, I'm sorry that you're not to date on it, that when we smash the big milestones with plastic out of the ocean, we're talking about five million bottles being being the one and probably we thought it would take a little bit longer than than 12 months.
00:27:56
Speaker
But we're
00:27:57
Speaker
We've got a design for a Magnum bottle, which John did now five years ago.
00:28:03
Speaker
We've never launched, but we're thinking about doing a Magnum sparkling rose to celebrate key milestones along the way.
00:28:12
Speaker
It's a super hot design.
00:28:15
Speaker
It's a black Magnum bottle with like hot pink hidden sea in the traditional sense.
00:28:21
Speaker
We've had two...
00:28:23
Speaker
two different design styles in our bottles, but the original design style.
00:28:27
Speaker
And I should actually tell the winemakers that we're thinking about this.
00:28:33
Speaker
Some of those, marketing doesn't always talk to winemaking, but yeah, I'm really looking forward to when we celebrate big milestones and we use it as two things.
00:28:42
Speaker
Chris, obviously a sales mechanism to celebrate, but to give to all our lovely people who support us, like people like yourself as a gift to celebrate along the journey.
00:28:52
Speaker
I'm a big believer in, you know, you've got to have big bold goals or BHAGs, but more importantly, you've got to celebrate all the little wins along the way with the people who matter.
00:29:02
Speaker
So that's something we're in the pipeline of putting together.
00:29:08
Speaker
No, that sounds amazing.
00:29:09
Speaker
And the bottle design sounds so cool as well that it'll be a little bit different from the typical label too, so it'll stand out more.
00:29:17
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:29:17
Speaker
And we're only launching in a Magnum, so it'll be a big Magnum bottle, not a 750.
00:29:25
Speaker
Do you have a price point for that or is it still discussion?
00:29:28
Speaker
Yeah, it'll probably be on the expensive side to buy.
00:29:31
Speaker
You know, one of our philosophies, everything we do, we want to be proud to serve it to our friends and our friends of friends, which is, you know, not something we promote in the hidden sea externally but internally and that's the thing we want to do is use it as a reward to people who are our ambassadors as a gift to
00:29:55
Speaker
online it would probably be quite expensive around that $50 mark but you know it's the bottle and the packaging will be absolutely A grade and of course the mine and the bottle will be something we'll play around with with one of our other brands Van Heard we own we've got some experience in making Tasmanian sparkling
00:30:18
Speaker
in the traditional Champagne-Oise method.
00:30:20
Speaker
So the guys have done a great job with that and we'll take those learnings and do a sparkling rosé for the hidden seat.
00:30:27
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:30:27
Speaker
Congratulations.
00:30:28
Speaker
That sounds amazing.
00:30:30
Speaker
And I feel like with the Magnum bottle as well, we've bought, well, my friends and I, we've bought each other Magnums for birthdays and stuff because it's so much more special having that bigger bottle, although they're much harder to store because they don't fit in the fridge.
00:30:42
Speaker
But no, it's so much more special having that bottle size.
00:30:45
Speaker
So I think it'll do so well.
00:30:48
Speaker
And, you know, it's about a statement.
00:30:50
Speaker
It's about the same thank you and it's a celebration thing.
00:30:53
Speaker
It links straight to our goals.
00:30:55
Speaker
We're talking 5 million, but, you know, and then we'll let 5 million bottles of plastic removed and, you know, so yeah, but it's meant to be special.
00:31:03
Speaker
It's meant to be drunk with friends.
00:31:05
Speaker
So that's hence the thinking behind it.
00:31:07
Speaker
What's your favorite food and wine pairing for both of you at the moment, if you've got one?
00:31:13
Speaker
Because some people are saying that it's more about who they're with and the people that they're with and the experience over the food and wine together, but...
00:31:22
Speaker
Yeah, it's interesting.
00:31:23
Speaker
I think wine's the connector and I don't think we should command any more than, you know, five to ten seconds of conversation.
00:31:30
Speaker
It is about people, but I won't answer the traditional way.
00:31:34
Speaker
What I really love doing, mad foodie, love cooking, that's my passion.
00:31:38
Speaker
You know, I cook every meal for my family.
00:31:41
Speaker
My wife, I don't think she's ever cooked for us.
00:31:44
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:31:46
Speaker
If I'm in the house, I'm cooking.
00:31:47
Speaker
But my favourite thing is...
00:31:50
Speaker
is things like pizza night at our house where I make the dough and everything and is having something extraordinary, whether it's ridiculously expensive or very unique or rare with a simplistic food where it becomes, you know, it becomes how good is this wine?
00:32:07
Speaker
We're having this.
00:32:08
Speaker
blah, blah, blah, and say names, and we're just having it with simple food.
00:32:12
Speaker
Because I think, you know, especially in Copenhagen, it's probably one of the best food cities, Melbourne, Tokyo, Copenhagen, New York, you can throw London in there, but Copenhagen is one of the best food cities.
00:32:23
Speaker
It's got more Michelin stars per capita than any other place in the world.
00:32:26
Speaker
They're very serious about, especially Nordic food pairing whites, you know, sparklings, you know, with food and it's very serious.
00:32:33
Speaker
And I think we flip it on its head.
00:32:35
Speaker
It is about people.
00:32:36
Speaker
Let's grab something really unique and let's pair it with, you know, burgers or pizza or, you know, just a simple bowl of pasta.
00:32:45
Speaker
That's my thought process.
00:32:47
Speaker
You know, I really like that.
00:32:48
Speaker
I like having just a glass of wine with a simple meal at home.
00:32:51
Speaker
I think it makes it more special, especially during the lockdown and everything like that.
00:32:56
Speaker
It did make, when you couldn't leave the house, it made it a little bit more special.
00:33:01
Speaker
Stephen, what about you?
00:33:03
Speaker
Yeah, I'm not big on food and wine pairing.
00:33:05
Speaker
Like, they could be wrong.
00:33:06
Speaker
I love a degustation and going to a nice restaurant and trying something new.
00:33:11
Speaker
But I guess I just like to keep things simple.
00:33:14
Speaker
I'm
00:33:15
Speaker
sort of whites by day, reds by night.
00:33:17
Speaker
And again, I'm not repeating myself, but sort of just drinking with the seasons.
00:33:22
Speaker
So if it's hot and balmy and it's a fresh, sorry, crisp, refreshing, you know, Sauvignon Blanc Rosé, winter months, it's something that's a bit more hearty.
00:33:32
Speaker
Again, I just like drinking wine and not
00:33:34
Speaker
thinking too much about it.
00:33:36
Speaker
It's there to be enjoyed.
00:33:38
Speaker
We do that enough during the week.
00:33:40
Speaker
It's great to pull out a bottle and not actually know what it is.
00:33:42
Speaker
I love drinking clean skins and just sort of, you know, mates, winemakers, we all trade amongst ourselves, understanding what other people are making from different regions, countries.
00:33:50
Speaker
It's the wines that are different and sort of stand out and aren't the run of the mill.
00:33:54
Speaker
I was going to say that's a really interesting thing.
00:33:56
Speaker
The longer I've been in the industry, getting with winemakers and people like Steve, and he makes a really good point, a master's of wine, getting in a room with him and having clean skins or getting the waiter to bring wine to us and talking through the wine without seeing the packaging or the branding of the wine.
00:34:13
Speaker
I really enjoy that, Steve.
00:34:16
Speaker
Yeah, it's like you say to a mate, just send me a dozen or half a dozen or whatever it is, and you just drink it and
00:34:23
Speaker
then if it's something you really like, you pick up the phone and try and understand more about it or just takes you on a journey, what it is.
00:34:30
Speaker
So I think wine itself can be the meal.
00:34:34
Speaker
And one of my early mentors, like I was never great at biochem at uni, let's be honest, but it was just like,
00:34:41
Speaker
trust your palate don't get too hung up on the numbers if you like something pursue it and understand why how what what they're doing bring them on later you know that's one thing about the Australian wine industry everyone's really prepared to share information and trials and you know on the flip side if you've got problems I'm more than happy to help you as well so yeah the more people you can drink with taste with and it doesn't mean you need to be
00:35:05
Speaker
a winemaker or have lots of experience.
00:35:07
Speaker
You know, we had some of our admin staff and one of the girls in our lab, we bought into a tasting this morning to get their take on what their favourites were.
00:35:18
Speaker
Because at the end of the day, I think sometimes winemakers try and overcomplicate it.
00:35:22
Speaker
Punter the consumer, the person that's rushing home from work on a Wednesday night to pick up the kids from sport or whatever, just needs a nice cleansing ale at the end of the day.
00:35:32
Speaker
Yeah, we don't need to overcomplicate it.
00:35:34
Speaker
Yeah, no, definitely.
00:35:35
Speaker
I agree.
00:35:35
Speaker
Just quickly, before I ask the last question, what are your thoughts on natural wines?
00:35:40
Speaker
I've had a lot of good to challenge the norm, but it's probably not something that I'm massively passionate about.
00:35:47
Speaker
I think for a business of our scale, it's probably something that's more of a niche.
00:35:53
Speaker
Don't get me wrong, I've tasted some amazing ones, but on the flip side, I've also tasted some that aren't so.
00:35:59
Speaker
At the end of the day, if you're going to hand over a $20 note to pull a cork or crack a bottle and it's not what you live up to, then whether it's a $10, $20, $100 bottle,
00:36:12
Speaker
it can leave you a bit disappointed so I guess happy to keep trying but it's personally not not something that yeah I'm not that that far down that path just yet I tried a couple and some of them have been great and then others have just been and I just wish I hadn't bought it and I wish I just bought something normal so I completely get that yeah
00:36:31
Speaker
Yeah, I've been exposed to it a lot because, as I mentioned earlier, there's a natural wine movement here.
00:36:37
Speaker
And, yeah, I love taking our winemakers.
00:36:41
Speaker
I don't think you've been here, Steve, but our winemakers and different people who come and visit me here to the natural wine bars here because it's certainly a journey.
00:36:51
Speaker
But I just – it becomes a flashback.
00:36:56
Speaker
in the wine and you're not going to put any sulfurs in there and you're going to go really extreme, that's a different thing than having a view on how we treat the vineyards all the way through to what we do with giving back.
00:37:10
Speaker
But actually the winemaking style is
00:37:12
Speaker
I think it can be challenging, but if you go to a lot of the top restaurants now, like I'm used to word noma and geranium and these places, you know, natural wine leads the way.
00:37:21
Speaker
But I think minimal intervention is something we talk about a lot, the hidden scene in our business.
00:37:28
Speaker
But natural wine is, yeah, is definitely a niche and there's a place for it, but it's just not...
00:37:36
Speaker
not what we're passionate about because consistency is important to the consumer.
00:37:40
Speaker
Last question.
00:37:42
Speaker
From the Hidden Sea Wines Collection, which would you both take to a dinner party, a barbecue, and take along for a day on the water?
00:37:51
Speaker
Gee, I will probably say something simply here, but I did a party always take the Shiraz.
00:37:57
Speaker
Depends what part of the season is.
00:37:59
Speaker
It is, but barbecue, I'd take something crisp and fresh because, you know, usually barbecue, there can be everything from prawns and meat to salads.
00:38:06
Speaker
So I'd take the Sauvignon Blanc because I'm really proud of what we've done there, especially the cool climate conditions of growing in Mount Gambier where we pick a lot of our Sauvignon Blanc.
00:38:16
Speaker
I'd take that to the barbecue and a long day in the water.
00:38:19
Speaker
There's nothing better than our rosé, I would have thought.
00:38:21
Speaker
Yeah, touche.
00:38:23
Speaker
Yeah, I agree totally.
00:38:25
Speaker
Perfect.
00:38:25
Speaker
Well, that was really easy then.
00:38:28
Speaker
Which one of our wines would you take to eat?
00:38:29
Speaker
Can I ask you the same question?
00:38:31
Speaker
Which one of the hidden sea wines, you've tried them all?
00:38:33
Speaker
Chris, which one would you take to a dinner party, barbecue and a long day on the water?
00:38:38
Speaker
Oh, gosh, it's probably going to be very similar to you.
00:38:41
Speaker
I'd probably take the Shiraz to a dinner party.
00:38:46
Speaker
I would probably take the Chardonnay to a barbecue and then the rosé on the water.
00:38:52
Speaker
Have you tried a saline blague?
00:38:55
Speaker
I don't think I have.
00:38:56
Speaker
I'll get you a case.
00:38:58
Speaker
I'll get you a full pack.
00:38:59
Speaker
I'll get you a full pack from us.
00:39:01
Speaker
Thank you.
00:39:02
Speaker
Thank you for... No, I don't think I have.
00:39:03
Speaker
I think, yeah, I've tried the Chardonnay, Shiraz and the Rosé.
00:39:06
Speaker
But yes, no, very similar though.
00:39:08
Speaker
The Rosé definitely for the water, I think.
00:39:11
Speaker
It's a beautiful drink.
00:39:12
Speaker
Yeah, and again, it's a little bit lower alcohol.
00:39:15
Speaker
You can quite easily have a couple of glasses and still be enjoying your day's activities.
00:39:20
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:39:21
Speaker
I just wanted to say a massive thank you for both of you for joining me on my fourth episode.
00:39:26
Speaker
But I can't wait to see the next steps that Hidden Seat Wine takes and see how many more goals you can smash this year.
00:39:33
Speaker
Thank you so much.
00:39:34
Speaker
Yeah, thank you, Chris.
00:39:35
Speaker
We're honoured to be on there and keep up the good work.
00:39:41
Speaker
It's fantastic.
00:39:43
Speaker
Thank you so much.
00:39:44
Speaker
Thank you.
00:39:45
Speaker
Thank you so much for listening.
00:39:47
Speaker
Please rate, review, subscribe and share with your friends.
00:39:50
Speaker
I'll see you next week for another closer look into the wine industry.
00:39:54
Speaker
Now go and grab that glass of wine.
00:39:56
Speaker
You deserve it.