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GIANT Coues Deer RUT Tactics with Jay Scott
497 Plays21 days ago
In this episode, Drew Miles sits down with legendary Coues deer hunter and outfitter Jay Scott to break down everything you need to know about hunting Coues deer hunting in Mexico during the January rut. Jay is heading into his 30th season in Mexico and shares decades of insight into how bucks move, how the rut unfolds, and how to consistently find giant Coues deer when they’re chasing does instead of hiding in the brush. They cover: How the rut shifts later as you go farther south What Coues bucks actually do in early January How to hunt scrape lines and roaming rut bucks Why mobility is key on Mexico ranches How to find hot zones loaded with does Gun permits, border crossings, and staying safe Why Mexico offers the most authentic Coues deer experience left Whether you’re planning your first Mexico hunt or you just love hearing how great bucks behave during the rut, this episode will change how you think about hunting Coues deer. If you’re serious about finding a 100”+ Coues buck, this one is required listening.
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Transcript
Role and Importance of the Spotter
00:00:00
Speaker
You're the third guy. You're the eyes in the sky. You're up high and you have the bird's eye view and you can see everything. You have to understand your job is the most important job of the whole three. It's the most important because if that deer moves, if that deer gets up, you are the one that is going to track that deer and say, guys, that deer has moved on us. You're down there sitting. He's not even on your hill.
00:00:23
Speaker
We need to relocate. Your job as a spotter, eyes in the sky, is the most important ingredient to success.
00:00:35
Speaker
All right. I have one of my favorite people in the world on the podcast today, Jay Scott. And we're going to talk about my favorite deer in the world, coos deer, and Mexico and the January rut. Because I leave next Thursday for...
00:00:53
Speaker
like 11 days down to Mexico to go and try and find some coos deer and get it done. You know, um they're an amazing animal. it's It's nice to hear that you like them as much as I do. And, and you know, anyone that hasn't spent time around coos, I just say, go out there and do it once. And most people that do, ah they seem to be addicted to them after that. And, and they're just such a neat animal. I'm excited for you to get down to Mexico.
00:01:22
Speaker
um You'll be headed down around the 9th of January, which is a little bit early, a little bit pre-rut, but you're going to probably in your 10, 11 days that you're going to be there, you're going to get to kind of see the full cycle of pre-rut and then rut and then hopefully you get to see full on chasing and everything involved with that so i'm excited for you to get down there for sure i'm excited to get down there myself yeah so that we should start with this before we get into mexico because they do start running later like the more south you go the more later the rut is and you'll see it like even in like you know like colorado it'll be like november and then you get down to like the kofa or not the kofa the kaibab and it'll be like
00:02:08
Speaker
late November, December, and Akita keeps going down.
Hunting Opportunities in Arizona
00:02:11
Speaker
So Jay, I'm officially an Arizona resident now. So I have a license. I walked into Sprague's the other day and talked to Richard Sprague and I bought a gun and walked out for the first time in my life. It was the freest thing I've ever done.
00:02:24
Speaker
Yeah, welcome. Welcome to Arizona. Richard's a great friend of mine. I've known him for probably 30 years. He's a year in good hands there and they're a great shop. And Chad, his son-in-law is a great, great guy also. So yeah, welcome to Arizona. I'm happy you made that, made that move.
00:02:41
Speaker
So what the most exciting part about me coming to Arizona is, is that I've got, I think, 14 deer points right now. And now I know everyone wants to do the strip as a resident. And, you know, I was thinking about doing like the archery strip, which is like, I get in like two years, like 16, 17 years old.
00:02:59
Speaker
But, uh, I think I want to go do like 23 because I think you could draw it as a resident and go do that late season coos hunt. But now that hunt goes from the 15th to the 31st, but they'll be running. Right.
00:03:14
Speaker
The central Arizona units, you know, they start rutting earlier than the southern Arizona units and earlier than Mexico. So as you were talking about that progression with mule deer, you you kind of talked about how, you know, it it moves down and as you move further south, typically they rut later. The interesting thing about that unit 23 is typically around Christmas time, you're going to start seeing some of the smaller bucks really moving around and pushing does and then
00:03:44
Speaker
Definitely after Christmas, before new year's and like the last three or four days, uh, in unit 23, 22, six, a, you know, six B those kind of central Arizona units. You, you hear lots of reports of the last four or five days of the month of December getting quite a bit of chasing. So, um, I don't think it's a bad call at all. I mean, archery strip for mule deer would be great. Um, but a great, you know, December Uh, tag in central Arizona is hard to beat as well. yeah And, and even I've seen years where we have have these cold snaps, uh, in mid December where it really gets cold, uh, and crisp and maybe an early snow or whatnot on the mountains. I've seen some of these Southern Arizona units as well around Christmas time, that last five, six, seven days,
00:04:36
Speaker
um be really good and and have some good chasing. Um, the, the interesting thing, the further south you go, obviously they're, they're a little slower to rut.
00:04:47
Speaker
So by picking that, you know, 23 or 22 or six day, I think you're, that's your best chance. And you throw in ah a snow storm or a cold snap there.
00:04:58
Speaker
um You know, you could see rutting as early as December 15th when, when the hunt starts. So um I don't think it's as an Arizona resident now, I don't think it's a bad call at all.
00:05:10
Speaker
Yeah. I just feel like as someone who loves cruise deer, like you really need to crack that 100 mark in the States. You know what i mean? i don't want to be numbers guy, but i really would love try and get that, you know, 105 to 115 buck in Arizona.
00:05:25
Speaker
i think it kind of legitimizes you as a coosier hunter. And for me, I really want to do it. Like I know i can go to Mexico and do it, but really want to get one in Arizona. And I would love to dedicate, you know, like the whole month of December to that hunt, you know, spend a few weeks down there and then just give myself two solid weeks in 23, trying to find that buck that really gets me excited and is an impressive buck.
00:05:47
Speaker
Yeah, you know, with those points, um the other strategy would be, and and probably after you use those points, is then start targeting those October hunts. um And now as a resident, targeting those October hunts and being able to put in quite a bit of scouting in you know, August and September in the velvet when they're a little more predictable and out in the open, feeding a little bit more, trying to, you know, grow those antlers, you can be very successful on those October hunts. So, you know, would I necessarily burn your 16 points on an October hunt? No, I think your strategy of going with the longer timeframe of the hunt um You know, those December hunts give us the longest amount of time to hunt those deer.
00:06:32
Speaker
So I think that's probably the strategy. But once you utilize those points, I think you can then go to a strategy that allows you to maybe so target a specific buck and maybe pick that, um you know, late October, which is the first chance. And there's some youth hunts in there, but they don't really pressure those deer too too much. So that that would be something I would be looking at.
00:06:55
Speaker
Yeah, well, stay tuned. That'll be a 2027 hunt. cause I'm not officially, I'm officially a resident, but I'm not officially a fishing game resident until July 1st this year. Yeah. So I'm not pushing my luck with any of that stuff. So I'm going to, I'm to apply as a non-resident this year because I've been here for, you know, since middle of December.
00:07:13
Speaker
And then 2027, I'll be a resident and I'll go and make do these hunts. There'll few. I think ive got like 10 or 12 elk points as well. So there'll be some fun stuff. Maybe some unit 10 stuff. So that's besides the It's we're talking about today. We're talking about Cous Deer Mexico. I leave on the 9th.
00:07:28
Speaker
let's ah Let's get into it. Let's talk about Mexico.
Reflections on Hunting in Mexico
00:07:31
Speaker
You bet, you know, this actually, I was looking back and it kind of hit me that this'll be my 30th season, uh, going to Mexico.
00:07:40
Speaker
And, um, you know, it's, it's one of those things. I love everything about Mexico. you know, the people, the food, the terrain and the vegetation that, that the coos deer live in. Um, I love, I tell people all the time, you know,
00:07:56
Speaker
Going to Mexico reminds me of, it's like going back in time, a hundred, 150 years when you go to some of these ranches. Um, and, and that's what really drives me. But, but also over the years of getting some of the, the glimpses of some of these giant bucks and been fortunate to get some of them on the ground and, and be able to put my hands on them has, has been amazing. And it's, uh, you know, fuel, fuel the passion of mine that, you know, now my 30th season, I can't even believe I've been going for 30 years, but it's, uh, it's something that I'm looking forward to. I can't wait to go. I'm going myself. Uh, we're, we're headed down for some mule deer hunts here early, and then I'll head, uh, later this later in January here for, for Coos here for my 30th season.
00:08:51
Speaker
Now, see as somebody who's grown up in Southern California or Arizona, Mexico is not really scary. But anywhere outside of like our area, people were pretty scared about going to Mexico.
00:09:07
Speaker
What's your experience with that? I mean, as long as you're smart, I've never had a problem. the most of the guys who I hear have problems, the guys who go to the bars or go do stupid stuff, then they're getting in trouble. As long as you keep your head down down there, I actually feel safer in Mexico most times than I do in some of the places in San Diego.
00:09:23
Speaker
Yeah, you know, it's something to respect for sure. um you You want to try and travel during the day if you can. You want to try and not put yourself in a position where you might get in harm's way. And, you know, a lot of that has to do with, like you said, you know, positioning yourself ah not in places where you might run into trouble.
00:09:44
Speaker
um Similar with the United States, if you if you put yourself in in areas where you could get in trouble, you might find trouble. um I've been fortunate to not have any issues in Mexico. And, you know, most of the issues that I've heard that others have had ah have been circumstantial where they're in the wrong place at the wrong time. And a lot of what I've heard could been could have been preventable.
00:10:09
Speaker
um I've found the Mexican people in general to just be incredible people um and and, you know, I've had nothing but safe travels.
00:10:20
Speaker
Uh, but you know, we always hear ah from time to time a story here and there. And, um, you know, you do have to respect, uh, and keep your head on a swivel and just kind of be, ah be aware of your surroundings like you would anywhere you travel, uh, you know, internationally, whether it's Mexico or Europe or wherever. But, um, for the most part, yeah, we, we kind of have, Phil, my director of operations who, you know, you know, we've really tried to create a checklist and, and, and give our hunters a sense of,
00:10:53
Speaker
you know, what to expect.
Trip Preparation and Logistics
00:10:55
Speaker
We've done videos on crossing. i think Phil sent you the the yeah crossing video that kind of, he actually videos the whole process and kind of shows you the different places to stop and here, park here and go here. and And we try and do that so that people can learn to to see what to expect. You know, I do Gould's turkey hunts in the spring and i I try and paint a picture with the video of, you know, this is what it'll look like. if you cross with our guides in the vehicles, this is what looks like when you land at the airport. And like, I actually get off the airplane and video and show people what it looks like. So, um, you know, I think a lot of it is expectation and, you know,
00:11:40
Speaker
People like to talk about things that they've heard ah and, you know oh, I heard this and I heard that, and you know how that goes. um But the the moral of the story is if you can you know stick to you know driving during the day as much as you can, you know stay out stay out of the you know the bars or stay out of the cities or towns at night and just don't put yourself in those situations, you should be just fine.
00:12:09
Speaker
Yeah, and and people get like, they they always want to know, like, how do you bring a gun to Mexico? And really, it's not that hard. um You get a gun permit, which is good for two guns per per permit, per person, correct?
00:12:21
Speaker
um So we registered for this hunt. We registered four guns under two guys' names. The biggest thing I've run into, and I've had to do a little bit of... um don't how you say it, Mexican trading with the federales, is you got to make sure you have the right numbers off your scope and your rifle.
00:12:40
Speaker
And that's the biggest thing that I've had problems with two years in a row now. um And were able to get out of it, but it costs a little bit. But ah you just you just give them the right numbers off your shield and your gun, shield and your scope.
00:12:53
Speaker
You pull through the border. You open up rifle cases. They come up. They check everything. they give you a slip and you're on your way and you're hunting in Mexico. It's really not that hard to bring firearms down there. People, I think it really holds a lot of guys up.
00:13:06
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it's definitely a process that, like I said before, you need to respect and, and need to try and get all of your ducks in a row. You know, I'm fortunate. I have a great team. Phil handles getting all of the gun permits and all of the tags and gets, you know, all the paperwork set for the hunters and creates a packet for everyone. But, In general, like you said, yes, um we're getting our gun permits through the Mexican military. So everything is issued through the Mexican military. And, um you know, it comes down to having great people that are doing the paperwork for us and and doing all of the permitting. But with anything, anytime you have human input, you know, they can input a serial number wrong. They can input something wrong. And maybe you get it and you you kind of look over it, but you don't check it clearly until you get down there. So, you know, I recommend to people get your gun permit, get at least from whoever you're going with, with your outfit or get a, get a photocopy of it and just make sure and go actually to your gun safe. Try and check that way. If you know that there's potentially a problem, you know it ahead of time um and you can kind of figure out a plan of how, how you're going to tackle that. um But yeah, I mean, it's not that big of a deal if you've done it a bunch. I think for some that have never done it, it seems very daunting, but it's it's really just a matter of, you know, dotting your I's and crossing your T's and and just trying to get all of that, you know, paperwork in line and then following the rules um and and following the protocols of crossing and whatnot. And so we try and outline that with our checklist and make it easy for people.
00:14:51
Speaker
I can say this. This is my first time hunting with Colbert and Scott and Phil has been incredible. Jay, whatever you're paying, he's an incredible resource. He's an incredible resource. for I mean, we're talking like,
00:15:07
Speaker
Top to bottom, on top of me, getting everything I needed. He's got a whole packet coming to me. A full booklet of Onyx pins. I know where the borders of the ranch are. I know where, hey, we've hunted ranch before. There's deer here, here, here, here. Go check this out.
00:15:22
Speaker
Like, world class working with you guys. Phil is incredible. He is. He's, you know, I think this is his... Oh, he'll probably shoot me for this, but I think it's at least his second, maybe his third season with me as director of operations. You know, he's been going down almost as long as I have, but he became my director of operations a couple of years ago. And um you know He's just been a blessing to to have. ah you know He represents our company very well, and um you know I'm proud to have him as as you know the the director of operations. and you know He's a great hunter himself, but he's a great person, and and people really enjoy interacting with him.
00:16:04
Speaker
um So it's, it's been great for me to be able to, with everything that I have going on with my different businesses and whatnot, it's been great to have Phil as my director of
Planning a Hunting Trip
00:16:15
Speaker
operations. But what's interesting and great about him is, you know, he's director of operations. It's what he does every day. It's 365 for him, but he also guides.
00:16:25
Speaker
So he'll guide my Gould's Turkey Hunters. He'll guide um the bighorn sheep, the mule deer, the coos deer. So in other words, he is also hands-on and, you know, he's crossing the border himself. He's going through the checkpoints.
00:16:39
Speaker
Like, so he, he has all of that experience. Uh, and then he's able to help me, you know, organize all the guides, all the trips, um, you know, get all the, the cooks ready. And, and, you know, we, we hunt in multiple States, Sonora and Chihuahua. And so you know, bringing him on for me, was just a huge blessing. Um, and it's allowed me to do a lot more with some of my other businesses as well.
00:17:05
Speaker
Um, and we talk probably four or five times a day, but I appreciate you saying that about them. And I get lots of really good feedback and, um, I only tell him about half of the good feedback. So his head doesn't get too big.
00:17:17
Speaker
Yeah. World worldclass world class working with Phil. Like i I'm never going back. So yeah, you get through, you get your guns checked. And this is where like with me in Mexico, like i' I've gone down forever. used to do lot of missions work down there. It really is a magical place. And it is almost like going back in time. I like to enjoy it. I like to drive down, and you know, it's but typically a few hours to your ranch.
00:17:39
Speaker
I like to stop and get tacos somewhere on this other way down. always like to cross in the morning, right? So I always give you the whole day because you never, things always go wrong. Like we blew a tire out last year. We blew bearings out. Like, Cross the morning, get some tacos, head down to my ranch and get to my ranch. not really making a bunch of stops, but getting down. Yeah.
00:17:58
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, for me, there's nothing like the street tacos. I mean, there's just something about it. ah You know, you can sit there and watch them making the tortillas. You can see them cutting the carne asada. Yeah. Um, there's, there's just something about just pulling over and, and, you know, the, the lady or the the man opening in the lid and it's like steaming out and it's, you know, tamales and, you know, it's the food and the culture down there. I love it. Um, you make a good point though, of you know, crossing in the morning, we urge, uh, all of our people to, to cross in the morning and, you know,
00:18:35
Speaker
Don't look at it as, you know, how long, when am I going to get to my ranch? You know, cause everyone's excited, but look at it more as a process, you know, travel safely. you know, the, the shoulders on the road sometimes aren't as wide and the roads aren't as the U S. So, I mean, you got really, yeah, are as wide as two trucks. Yeah. So you really have to pay attention. You don't want to drop, drop a truck ah tire off the road and blow a leaf spring or something. But if you do, you know, it's always nice to have some supplies with you. But if you, if you go with the mindset of that, this is our travel day,
00:19:09
Speaker
And we're not, we're not hurrying. We're just going along smoothly and, and expect things to happen. Expect to blow a tire and know that when it happens, it's just part of the whole experience. Then on those days, when you get to your ranch, you know, what we like to do is get settled in, you know, get to your house, get all your gear, get everything set out. And then there's time, you know, get out, maybe go drive around some roads, maybe go do some glass and just do some checking. But in other words, get there, get safe, get everything settled and then prepare for your, for your hunt, whether it's, you know, oh a week or 10 days or whatever, however long you're staying kind of, now you're there. Now you're safely there, get all your stuff out, get fully prepared so you can hit that first morning. Um, you know, hit the, hit the ground running.
00:20:01
Speaker
Yeah, I gave i gave us 10 days because I really want to take time to just, man, I cannot wait to be in Mexico next week, Jay. Just sit on a knob and just look for deer. You know what i mean? and And they're going to be starting to rut. They're going start moving around. So you might not be able to pattern them as well. You know, like it's just going to be, I want that time there.
00:20:19
Speaker
um There's different options too, right? You can go fully guided. You could go DIY like we did, or you can do like a partial thing like we did. We went DIY, but we also paid cooks to come down. So we're able to cook there for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
00:20:31
Speaker
So all we have to bring is snacks and drinks, which I really enjoyed. It wasn't, I mean, like, I think it might've been four or 500 bucks a person, maybe maybe not even that much. And we're going to get carne asada, eggs, bacon. I mean, just some of the best food you've ever had.
00:20:46
Speaker
Fresh tortillas made over a fire in the yard, you know? um I really like that option for me. I like a DIY and I like the, having some chefs there to cook for us. Yeah. I mean, it's been a, you know, when I first started doing DIY hunts, you know, I would recommend, you know, people just doing their own thing. And then people started, you know, saying we'd really like cooks. And so we started organizing cooks and people really enjoy that. Um, and it, and it gives you some of the culture and some of the flair and it's, it's, there's nothing like, you know, waking up and having breakfast going and,
00:21:20
Speaker
and, you know, coming in from the evening hunt and, you know, there's art, you can already smell the food and, and, you know, on these hunts, we go at it so hard. It's, it's one of those things. It's great to not to have to worry about what you're going to cook and, and preparing that when it's already done for you. And then you can focus on the hunt.
00:21:39
Speaker
You know, you brought up, uh, you're going down for 10 days and you're going to start around
Understanding Deer Rutting Timing
00:21:44
Speaker
the ninth. Well, the full moon is right now. I mean, it's basically the third of January. So, and, and the dark moon is the 18th. So I think that's kind of like one towards the end of it. Yeah. So one of the things I think, um, I think personally, when you get there, the first couple of days will be slow for rutting. Now it could be totally wrong. You could get there and be like, text me going, Jay, they're, they're chasing like crazy. But
00:22:14
Speaker
Like um this is how I would approach the hunt. I would approach that, you know, you've got a set time that you want to take your time. You want to enjoy it as much as you can, but you don't want to put too much expectation on the beginning part of the hunt because it's more learning the ranch, learning where you want to glass from and trying to figure those out. And then as the days go on each day that goes by my expectation for you is that you'll start seeing more and more chasing.
00:22:43
Speaker
The interesting thing about these pre-rut times is, and and I've hunted a lot in late December and early January and and moving into that mid-January, is you get those bucks really moving and not necessarily moving to does, but checking scrape lines and just checking and walking. So one of the things you've got to watch is you might find a great buck and my anticipation will tell you that
00:23:14
Speaker
You're probably going to see that buck chi walking a scrape line, making a scrape, walking, checking another scrape, checking another scrape, checking another scrape, maybe finding a doe, checking her out. And, but you get a lot of movement. One of the challenges early on is they're not as, they don't lock down with the doe and they're not as stationary. So one of the things you have to kind of understand is in this early season, when you're going to be going,
00:23:43
Speaker
You may find a buck, but if you find him and he's a really good one, you better get him killed because he's likely not, unless he's with does and like really chasing and like locked in with them, he's probably more in that checking scrapes mode and checking a few does, but like they probably won't be in. So he's going to move to other does. Whereas.
00:24:06
Speaker
towards the end of your hunt, I would expect more a buck to be with does. And you could see him day after day with the same does and chasing those does around and fending off those does are chasing off other bucks. So,
00:24:21
Speaker
That is one cool thing is you're going to kind of get to see the whole um cycle or de duration of that pre-rut into rut. And then i would just tell you as time goes on, as each day, each hour that goes, I think it will get better.
00:24:39
Speaker
So. For those of you out there listening that are going early, what I call early, like when Drew's going a little bit early, anytime before the 15th, I say as early, it can still be in a really good time to see big bucks and kill a big buck.
00:24:54
Speaker
You just kind of have to approach it different in the fact that if you see one, you better understand that you probably don't have multiple days to get on that deer and kill them. You'll see them and you might find them later, later in the week.
00:25:08
Speaker
but he might be six ridges over in a completely different part of the ranch. And that's also a time when they're really traveling. And typically coos deer are very habitual and they live in a, you know, five to 800 meter circle their whole life. But you throw in this period after Christmas and into New Year's and into the pre-rut, that's when bucks come from other you know, if guys are, you know, archery hunt in Arizona, understand, or if they're hunting in Mexico, this is the time period when bucks come from miles away to a place to check for does, check their scrape lines. And, you know, the old Aachenfels Arizona game and fish study, uh, I think is Richard Aachenfels. Great study. If you ever get, it's a great booklet. You could probably get it from the game and fish. He studied the, the, he collared these deer, coos deer, and studied them for years.
00:26:00
Speaker
And it showed this period of time when those bucks just, they they traveled off the off the charts. They moved two, three, four miles. And for a coos deer, that's a lot. It's ton.
00:26:12
Speaker
So you're, man, i was thinking maybe more stationary. And that makes sense because they're in the wandering stage looking for a hot doe right now. cause That's right. Oh, we're going to be more like October-ish. And they're not going be, they're going to more they're goingnna be on though They're going to be on their feet and moving and checking scrape lines. they I would say they check more scrape lines in this pre-rut period, moving into the middle of the rut um more than anything. But that's the thing. You might see a buck and his nose is kind of down and he's kind of sniffing. Then he gets and he scrapes. And if you see him scraping in your mind, you got to think, And let's say it's a giant buck. you You need to be thinking, how do we get get out in front of this deer and keep eyes on this deer so that we can get them killed? Because more than likely, he's got a mile or two of scrape lines that he's going to be moving and checking. Now, with that being said, if you see a buck checking scrapes and you see him check multiple scrapes, there's a really good chance over the next two, three, four, five days, he's going to be coming right back and checking the same scrape. So as you're walking up ridgelines and stuff to glassing points, and if you start noticing fresh scrapes, like in the back of your mind, be like, this is a buck making a scrape.
00:27:30
Speaker
Likely other bucks are going to come. and check that scrape does are going to come check that scrape. So, you know, if you were to jump a big buck, let's say you're hiking up to a glassy knob and you jump a really big buck. And as you were walking up, but you're like, oh, there's a scrape, there's a scrape. And let's say you go a little further and boom, he blows out. And you're like, you pick up your chest glass you're like, that's a giant. He's running. And let's say runs three ridges over.
00:27:57
Speaker
What you need to understand is those scrapes are probably his. So back off a little bit and get where you can look into those scrapes. And I'll bet in two, three, four, five days, that buck is going to come back to those scrapes.
00:28:11
Speaker
Really? Yeah, I'm getting excited about this. Do you, how was I going with that? Geez. Oh, there we go. So I typically am a pretty stationary hunter, for a coups year, kind of like find a knob and I'll spend a whole day on a knob because I just get to pick it apart, right?
00:28:30
Speaker
so are you thinking maybe the first few days, this to be little more mobile, like maybe kind of spend like two or three hours, make a move two or three hours. I'm a guy who loves that like 11 to two times. so I'm always like, okay, we'll get that boarding session.
00:28:44
Speaker
And then let's sit keep staying in the same spot and we're kind of just, you know, doing Adams angle to dangle, move around that same knob and look around.
Identifying Hot Zones and Patience in Hunting
00:28:51
Speaker
But you think even more mobile? I definitely think in the time period that you're going, the more mobile you are, ah probably the more success you're going to have finding more numbers of deer. And the way I always, I always tell people in Mexico, it's, it's the same strategy I use for like chasing rutting mule deer is like,
00:29:12
Speaker
They're moving and you need to be moving. Now, people kind of take that out of context, I think, and they think that when I say moving, go to a spot for 30 minutes and move on. No, go to a knob for an hour, two or three. And based on what you're seeing and what your gut is telling you, then it might be time to move where you're looking at a different angle of the same country or change country completely.
00:29:36
Speaker
But I think in the first couple days, and this goes to anybody listening, whether you're going this early time period or in the middle is like when you're going to a new ranch, like pick a knob and have a place to go in the morning, but then Be thinking of, okay, I want to bounce over and I want to hit on that knob and I want to hit on this knob. And I say, move around the ranch a little bit more and cover more country early until you find those pockets. And this is something I wanted to talk to you about as well.
00:30:08
Speaker
Once you kind of learn your way around the ranch and learn how things are kind of flowing, it's important to find those spots where maybe you're like, from this knob, I've seen like 17 does. I haven't seen many bucks, but I'm seeing does all over. Maybe you go to another spot and you're like, I saw three bucks, but I didn't see any does, but I saw a pretty nice buck.
00:30:30
Speaker
Well, as your hunt goes on, more than likely, they're going to cycle back to those areas where those does are. So part of your job early in the first two or three days of the hunt, in my opinion, is to kind of learn your terrain, learn your glassy knobs, and then learn where the particular deer are moving the whole time looking for those hot zones, looking for those zones where, hey, I saw three bucks literally chasing does.
00:30:59
Speaker
Once you find those hot pockets, a lot of times those attract other bucks and those certain areas, you know, sometimes there may be one hot zone on your ranch and there may be three or four or five, depending on the size of your ranch, different spots that are like the hot zone.
00:31:16
Speaker
So then once I find those hot zones, it's a matter of staying on and checking those zones because once you find those hot pockets, typically that's where some of your best bucks are going to show up.
00:31:30
Speaker
So that's part of like, don't get too stationary. Because if you get too stationary, you may be missing a hot pocket that if you would have just took two or three days to just kind of you know move around a little bit, get a good feel of how everything's moving, find a hot pocket or two, and then focus on those hot pockets, pockets that's typically when those biggest bucks will show up. And when you're if you're in those hot pockets, you can kind of take advantage of that.
00:32:00
Speaker
Now, do you think... I'm going to like those hot pockets are going to more than like two to three does, or could it be two to three does you think it's going to be bigger herds of does? No, I mean, it could be a group of two or three does and it could be one of the first does to cycle. And all of a sudden you'll see six or eight bucks and they're just, you know, beehive and around chasing that one doe or it could be what, like we call doe flats or, you know, just a place where like you're seeing, you know, 12, 15, 18 does. and all a sudden,
00:32:31
Speaker
one day there's two bucks. And then the next day you're like, there's five bucks. And the next day there's 11 bucks. Like it just happens. Um, and, and so I think going in with that mindset that every day is going to get better, uh, and, and you're looking for those hot pockets, those hot zones. And even if you're finding a spot and you're like, I'm not seeing the bucks, but I'm seeing the does, just keep that in the back of your mind. and keep searching and searching and searching. I mean, um i I always try and recommend to people to take their time, not feel like they have to be done in the first couple days, because likely the longer you stay and the more you stay at it, the bigger the buck you're going to find. It's very easy for people to
00:33:21
Speaker
you know, say never have shot a hundred inch buck. And the so first morning they see a buck that's right at a hundred. There is nothing wrong with harvesting that buck, nothing wrong with it.
00:33:34
Speaker
But likely if you gamble a little bit and spend more time, you might find a one Oh five, or you might find a one 10 or one 15. So, you know, if you go in with the mindset of like first couple days, we're just kind of looking around. you know, day four, five, six, seven, like that's when we start getting a little more serious.
00:33:54
Speaker
That's when you can kind of like tighten the noose down on specific areas and specific bucks. And, and, and, you know, if if you spend your time shooting a hundred inch buck, that's time that you could be looking for 110 inch buck. And, and so if you kind of go in with that mindset, most of the time you end up finding a bigger buck.
00:34:15
Speaker
It's really hard though. And I, I mean, I fight it all the time too, with, you know, trying to find a buck bigger than my personal best. And it's like, well, this one would just make it like, and then you're like, well, are you getting greedy? Or are you still looking for a one, like one 30, one 40? Like, what are you looking for?
00:34:32
Speaker
Um, and, it's It's a mind game you have to play, but I think people get a little bit antsy because they're so excited to be there ah that then maybe they shoot a 95-inch buck that they're like, man, if I would have just waited, I could have got a 107.
00:34:49
Speaker
Yeah, and you got the time and you're in Mexico. And one thing i love about Mexico is I feel like the deer don't wake up until 9 a.m. down there. You really get to see them in their natural state. We're like up here up here in the States.
00:35:03
Speaker
These deer, you get that first two hours and the last hour of the day, right? And you kind of get some movement in the middle of the day a little bit. But down there, they're really not pressured. So you really get to kind of see coos deer as they are meant to be.
00:35:15
Speaker
You can find them all day. Yeah, I mean... So ah this goes back to a little talk that I like to have. It's like everyone expects there to be just giant deer around every tree. And so when they go and maybe have a, say you get a warm spell and maybe it's hot and they're just not moving and you know, there's just not, not a lot of movement and you can get discouraged. I would say you're in Mexico, there's giants around, you got to find them. There's not a giant around every tree, but
00:35:47
Speaker
You never know when it's going to happen and you never know when a big deer is going to pop up. And, and I think you're, you're used to probably hunting in October and November, mostly for coos deer and You have to step back and say, even if it's warm, we're still in January. There's still bucks that are going to start thinking about chasing does.
00:36:09
Speaker
Um, and my next pan of my glass could be the buck of a lifetime. So if you, you know, glass with expectancy and glass with optimism, and if you can remain jacked up for, you know, seven to 10 days, That's going to probably play out the best for you. I've been on many hunts down there where, you know, you get one of these big high pressure systems and it's really warm and you get maybe a good movement in the morning and good movement in the evening, but it's just, it's slow. And then all of a sudden, you know, colder weather comes in and those deer get on their feet. Like you just have to keep going. You have to kind of expect a grind because it's still not easy. It's still coos deer hunting. They're still hard to spot. They're still wary. And, and you know, but if you keep in the back of your mind that the buck of your dreams could be around the next hillside or in the next pan of your glass, that's what always keeps me going. Even, you know, 30 years into it, I'm still, you know, there's nothing like panning over and seeing a great buck. you know, bedded under a mesquite tree or, you know, sniffing a doe or, you know, checking a, checking a scrape line.
00:37:21
Speaker
Yeah. I always tell people like we just did an Arizona hunt and we're the filmer and just glass all day. And I always think have to trust the process. At some point, I always tell myself at some point, there's going to be a buck standing in my glass.
00:37:34
Speaker
You have to trust the process, slow down, and keep looking. And eventually there's going to be a deer there. There has to be. I mean, just the the numbers, it just, you know, you probably glossed over him five times that day, but eventually he's going to stand up or you're goingnna he's going to move his head and you're going to see him there.
00:37:48
Speaker
Yeah, you know, the ranch you're going to typically has good density. um So it's usually a good numbers and and you should see quite a few deer. One of the challenges with that is a lot of times you see quite a few bucks and, you know, you start getting antsy and getting, you know, seeing something, you're like, oh, I i really like the looks of that. and And that's great. You know, everybody has their own you know, buck that they're looking for and something that, you know, flips their switch.
00:38:17
Speaker
And that's fantastic. Um, you know, I would just encourage everyone that's going to Mexico just to, um, enjoy every second and realize that there's really not that many places you can hunt coos deer with a rifle during the rut.
Strategies for Hunting Coos Deer
00:38:33
Speaker
Um, you know, you've got the San Carlos, uh, here in, in Arizona that you can draw the tags are hard to come by and they have some rut tags. Uh, but in Arizona, uh, you know, on state land, you have to use a ah bow and, and so being able to hunt these deer when they're running, uh, is, is, is an exciting thing to be able to, it's a privilege to be able to do.
00:38:56
Speaker
Now, I want to talk to you a little bit about, um, in the situation where you glass up some does and, uh, you know, big buck comes in and he's just chasing them hard and he's chasing them like crazy, like,
00:39:08
Speaker
Make sure that you can try and triangulate, get, get multiple sets of eyes from different angles if possible, and then have your guys that are moving in to make the shot, have your spotters staying on the deer as much as possible. Don't take your eye off the deer. If you want to kill a deer, if you found a deer you want to kill, don't take your eyes off of them.
00:39:30
Speaker
You know, play the leapfrog system where you leapfrog the the shooter. And, and I always recommend the shooter, maybe take one person with him to help him in, you know, in the setup and, you know, finding the deer and and the whole thing, but play the leapfrog system where leapfrog, you know, the shooter into position. Um, you know, ah again, try and stay outside of 300 yards from those deer. If you can 400 for me is kind of the magic number 350 to 400.
00:39:59
Speaker
I feel like if you get inside of 300 yards, you're gonna, those deer are gonna hear you. They're gonna see you. They're gonna smell you. They just have a, a wild way of knowing you're there. And then you're trying to shoot at a deer that's moving, running, cetera. So if you could kind of stay outside that bubble, uh, that's a huge one with me. And then ah another really good tip, as you know, Drew is like,
00:40:23
Speaker
um plan your morning glassing session around the sun. And when I say that planet where you can utilize the sun coming over your back and you are using the sun to illuminate those Hills and your quick, you know, shotgun panning and glassing using that sun to illuminate those deer.
00:40:47
Speaker
And then as the morning progresses, you will start to see those deer move out of those open areas that the sun is really illuminated into the shady areas. And it goes for the same with Mexico where, you know, as it starts to warm up, they're going to pile over and move under those north facing slopes.
00:41:09
Speaker
When they're rutting, one of the cool things about them rutting is you can get over on the north facing slopes and, and really look into that brush and you'll pick up a doe that's standing and she's just standing there and you're like, I don't see any bucks. I don't see any movement.
00:41:25
Speaker
Well, watch her ears, watch her head, watch her, watch what she's looking at. A lot of times if she's just locked over here, if you keep watching and keep panning over there, I'll bet you a buck's going to pop out. and And so the difference between hunting in the rut and glassing those north facing slopes once they move over is really dig into those slopes because a lot of times you'll pick up those bucks in there chasing and they're going to chase on those shaded north facing slopes later in the morning. They'll eventually lay down, but a lot of times then they'll get back up after an hour and start chasing does again. So The same principle applies as October, and November, and January, but understand that in those pockets, when they're bedded, when the rut is on, they're going to get up on their feet a little bit more.
00:42:17
Speaker
Man, i'm ah I'm so excited. doing You talked about those glasses in the morning, the sun at your back. and I didn't get to hunt coos deer this year, and I am so excited for that. I'm so excited. There's nothing more magical than that in the morning. and They almost glow. you know like it's just like It's so cool finding those deer and seeing them in the mornings and just counting the numbers and who could find the first deer, who could find the first buck. who can It's just... um Yeah.
00:42:42
Speaker
Yeah, and and you know, it's... um with letting the sun illuminate those deer, like you still, I talk about glassing quickly, you know, on your tripod, moving around glassing, looking for those high probability areas in those saddles, open faces and really shotgunning. And then as the, as the morning progresses, then you start to slow down a little bit more, but you know, you're,
00:43:10
Speaker
During the rut, it's interesting because you could look over at 12 noon and there's a buck chasing a doe in the wide open. That typically doesn't happen, you know, in non-rut times, October, November, you're almost always just going to find them in those shade pockets. But, you know, the the thing that is so enjoyable about the rut is the fact that you could see a buck chasing the doe anywhere at any time.
00:43:35
Speaker
Now, the challenge, here's the challenge of the whole situation. One of the hardest things to do is when you find a giant buck and he's running and chasing the doe, sometimes they become extremely hard to kill. Why? They become hard to kill because they're moving too much. They're literally chasing a doe around a mountain.
00:43:55
Speaker
Like we've had situations where we're looking at a buck, he's chasing a doe and the doe's like running from the buck and he's chasing and they go over the mountain. And you're like, oh man, should we relocate? I'm like, let's just sit here because likely they're going to come back.
00:44:09
Speaker
And sure enough, 15 minutes later, way over here, here comes the doe over the top of the mountain, the bucks chasing her. So, It's a challenge sometimes in the rut because they're moving around so much that you have to be patient and you have to try and kind of get in those areas and try and get, uh, where you can be positioned where when they cycle around again, you're going to get a shot. I tell a story a lot on my cousin, Jimmy, 20 some years ago was me, Jimmy, and, and, uh, my hunting partner, Dar, and
00:44:43
Speaker
Uh, I was up spotting, we had seen a buck, they went down there after it and the buckets rutting a doe like crazy, just rutting a doe. And it goes around the mountain, it goes up and over and dark comes on, on the radio and he says, i think the bucks gone. I said, well, let's sit here and, and see 15 minutes later. Just like I said, way over here to the right, here comes the doe buck. And it chases her right through the same spot. I mean, like they'd been a half a mile loop and here they come and they're going to run across the same flat.
00:45:15
Speaker
So I said, here they come. He's chasing the doe, get ready. So my cousin love him to death. He's the greatest guy in the world. Uh, he's younger than me and, and, uh, he was kind of a wild man in his younger years, but he's a, he's a real good family man now. But every time that buck would, every time that buck would chase that doe around that mountain,
00:45:34
Speaker
and he cross over this flat, my cousin would shoot at him and no not not hit him and, and boom. And here he goes running around again, boom.
00:45:45
Speaker
And this goes on for about an hour. And finally, I called down there to Dar and I said, what is going on? And he says, your cousin, he just won't wait for the buck to stop.
00:45:57
Speaker
And I can hear him in the background going, he's not stopping. I'm not going to, ah he's not stopping. How am I going to, you know, and I said, tell him to calm down and wait till he stops for a second and kill that buck.
00:46:09
Speaker
And he eventually did, but we still get a good laugh. I think there was five different times in a period of about an hour that the buck got shot at and he finally got killed. But that's a point of like, get in position and understand if the buck chases the doe off, you may have to relocate or maybe just stay put because likely that doe will come right back around and you'll get another crack at him.
00:46:33
Speaker
Yeah. So talk about that 300 yard bubble. Cause see, so on this hunt, I'm kind of guiding, I'm bringing down a customer, uh, Luke Duesenberry's hunting and then shed crazy is coming, but he's open site lever action.
00:46:46
Speaker
So he's going have to get in that bubble, but we do with the bow all the time, right? People do the bow. He's probably been trying to get to that hundred yard mark more. So talk about that. Cause you're talking about 300 yard bubble a lot. Let's talk about that.
00:46:57
Speaker
Yeah. So, and, and something to notice, like, you know, I, I, was talking on another podcast and mentioned the bubble and, and, uh, you know, got a lot of, you know, got a lot of feedback on Instagram, you know, people saying, ah right pop, you know, don't want to pop the bubble and bubble blah, blah, blah.
00:47:16
Speaker
I'm not saying that going with an open sight, you know, lever action gun isn't doable and isn't possible. What I'm saying is the most efficient and effective way is to stay outside of their bubble.
00:47:28
Speaker
My recommendation to anyone that's either bow hunting or going, you know, trying to shoot something at a hundred yards or 150 yards, what I would consider close, you know, 150 yards and in is just understand that everything that could go wrong probably will.
00:47:43
Speaker
and that you still need to be super stealthy. You need to really watch the wind. um and And now all of your senses, and you need to take into account all of the deer senses as well in the plan of your approach. In other words, your stock, they can't hear you. They can't see you. They can't smell you. So if you're going you know with an open sight,
00:48:06
Speaker
30, 30, maybe the situation where he can pop up over a little knob and just have a little bit of contour where he gets a little bit of elevation, but is able to use that elevation to his advantage is good. One of the challenges when you get, try and get inside that hundred yards, A lot of times you don't have that sight picture.
00:48:24
Speaker
You know, you're on the same plane as that buck that you're trying to go after. And those does a lot of times pick you off. So if you can use, sometimes there's like little long ridges and stuff where you could stay below the ridgeline and just be able to pop up enough where they're across the other side. Those are things that, you know, if you're a bow hunter or if you're going to shoot with a muzzleloader or, a you know, lever action, ah open site where you have to be very stealthful. I would consider taking like sneaky feet or something where you can be quiet because more more than likely you close inside that 300 yards, they, they can hear you.
00:49:03
Speaker
Now, going back to the bubble, I believe the 300 yard bubble for a rifle hunter is something that I've found over the years is one of the biggest tips is stay outside of that bubble where if you clank a tripod leg together, if you make a, uh, uh, you know, you go to put your backpack down and put the rifle down or put your bipod down and you make a little noise or something, if you can stay outside of 300 yards, you can get away with a lot more.
00:49:35
Speaker
Now, I caught some flack people saying, oh, he's promoting, you know, 900 yard shots. And I'm thinking, I never said anything about 900 yard shots. What I said is stay outside of 300. Most people with today's equipment, with bipods of today with scopes of today and with the great rifles of today, 300 yards is like what a hundred yards used to be. Most guys that are really, you know, know their, their gun and shoot a lot. They can shoot as good a group at 300 as they can at a hundred, 150 200.
00:50:07
Speaker
Um, and, and I'm not one to condone these long shots and everybody has their own idea of long, but three, four, four 50 is not a long shot for someone that hunts in the West, Western us. s You know, it's just not a long shot for us.
00:50:24
Speaker
Um, and I feel like staying outside that bubble gives you the ability to, to, to hone in on those deer and be able to take a shot when they have no idea you're there.
00:50:37
Speaker
And I, you know, I caught some flack from some bow hunters saying, oh, they they have no idea you're there. Well, our job is to kill, is it not? I mean, if, if we're there to hunt and you have a tag and you're there to harvest, the way I look at it is if you can be as efficient as possible and as effective as possible, that's a win.
00:50:57
Speaker
Not And, and, and I'm not taking anything away from the people that really like to stock in close and, you know, shoot them with a bow at 30 yards or 50 yards. What I'm saying is if, if you're going to be successful time after time, after time on these deer.
00:51:15
Speaker
Stay outside of 300 yards. That's just as a tip that I think if people would really listen to plan your stock and plan your sniper position, wherever you're going to get to try and use your rangefinder and figure where am I going to be 300 yards to 400 yards in that three to 400 plan that as your place where you can go and lay down, get your bipod out, you know, get, get the back part of your gun supported, get, you know, get good and comfortable and steady.
00:51:44
Speaker
You know, get everything set out, have your spotter that's sitting right next to you. That's another thing I'll, I'll just mention is, and, and drew, you know this, but anyone out there listening, it's always good. If you could have someone with you with binoculars on their tripod, sitting right next to the shooter. If it's a right-handed shooter, I like to sit as the spotter right to their right. So where their right forearm is kind of in the gun. I like to be close so I can communicate very quietly. And I can be basically looking in the same angle that they're looking. So, and then, and then when we're set up on those deer before, and let's say they're bedded, What I'm doing is I'm talking to the shooter and I'm saying, do you see the white rock? Let's use that white rock as a reference. Yes. Look through your scope. Yes. I see the white rock.
00:52:34
Speaker
Okay. Do you see the big Saguaro about 30 yards to the right? That's the, we're going to call that the big Saguaro. Do you see that? Yes. So they're looking in their scope. Yes. Okay. Do you see the mesquite tree with a broken limb and it's real gray? In other words, what am I doing? I'm creating this point of reference with me and the shooter so that when the time comes, if that deer was to move left, right, up or down, we have common points of interest that we've already discussed that I know and the shooter knows. So if I go, he's over by the big Saguaro.
00:53:13
Speaker
Okay. He's just a five yards to the right of the big Saguaro. He's already found the big Zawarro. He knows where it is. So then he's able to move his rifle and scope and goes, i see him.
00:53:23
Speaker
So having good communication with the shooter and the spotter is huge. And oftentimes I think it's best if it's just a two man game.
00:53:34
Speaker
You get too many people in that situation trying to help. It doesn't work. If you just get a spotter and a shooter right next to each other, communicating and, and have kind of a plan. Okay. And I, I mean, this is what I do as a guide. I'm talking to say, okay, if for whatever reason, the buck just gets up and just starts chasing the doe. And I will try and tell you a direction, but I tell the shooter, I say, listen, it might not happen here. We have to be ready, but we want to have a plan. And if we have to move, we want to have a plan. And so I'm basically formulating how it's going to play out. You you don't know that the buck's just going to stand up and stretch and give the guy all, all day. So I say if that buck, cause I've seen it where they're bedded, nothing's going. And all of a sudden it just, he just squirts out of there and he's chasing that doe and they're off a hundred yards over here.
00:54:26
Speaker
So we go over a plan, like see this flat over here. If they happen to move over there, do you see the big, you know, the, the pinyon tree or do you see the the two white rocks yes okay if we have to use that as a reference that's our reference and the whole time setting up i'm just trying to play out every scenario that might go and then as it happens then as as the spotter and again i get on my soapbox i get fired up because it's just 30 years of making mistakes comes out of me but
00:54:57
Speaker
The spotter needs to be calm. If the spotter is calm, the shooter a lot of times stays calm. One thing I will tell you myself as a shooter, i don't, so I have a hard time staying calm, especially on big deer, big animals. I love it so much that i I find myself, my heart racing and I'm not calm.
00:55:20
Speaker
Conversely, I think early in my guiding career, I think I was more excitable than I am now. i actually calm way down and clients actually mentioned, I can't believe how calm you were. That's from years of practice of like, I need to be as the spotter, ultra calm and ultra confident in so that I instill that in the shooter. So they stay calm and they remain confident. And, and that's a huge tip that I could give out there to anyone that's trying to help someone
00:55:52
Speaker
You know, help your hunting partner kill a deer. The worst thing you can do is you don't see him. Why don't you see him? He's right there in the open. You're going to miss him. What are you doing? That's like the worst thing you could do. So you go, go back to the process. Do you see the two white rocks? Yes. Do you see the Saguaro? Yes. Okay. He's between the two. Do you see him?
00:56:11
Speaker
No. Okay. Go back to the white rocks. Do you see him? Okay. Go five feet to the right. Do you see that little tuft of agave? Yes. What? Put your scope right there.
00:56:22
Speaker
Okay. I'm on the agave. Do you see where it's pointing up? Do you see that gray thing? Yes. That's the deer's chest. Oh, I see him. I see him. Like, so you got to like stick with calm and stick with the process. And it's amazing how much better the results are, uh, when the spotter can stay calm. And, and so many times after, you know, a guy shoots, maybe he misses, stay calm.
00:56:47
Speaker
He's right. He hasn't taken a step. He's right where you left him. Where did I hit? If you don't know and can't make the call, tell him, say, put it right on him. Hold it right on him. You know, a lot of times the best advice you can give is hold it right on him. Don't start.
00:57:03
Speaker
If you didn't know it flew high or low, don't start making it up. Just say, you got this. Hold it right on him. And a lot of times, boom, they shoot and they just made a bad shot on the first shot.
00:57:15
Speaker
Yeah, and ah I'll even go a step further on like the ideal situation. Yes, having a guy with the shooter is awesome. Having the third guy back where you found him from hundred percent with a radio. So I've got these new radios. that you' know if you've tried them yet, the rugged radios.
00:57:31
Speaker
They're from the off-road community. and I got the extended antennas on them and like, man, I can get five miles away and still get reception. So it's some really good radios are pretty, I don't wanna say they're critical in coos you're hunting, but man, they make life a lot easier.
00:57:46
Speaker
Cause a lot of times you're finding these deer from, you know, half mile a mile away, They're putting stock on them. And in ideal situation, a good hunting partner will sit up on that knob exactly where you left them and never leave his glass and just watch that deer for you the whole time. Because by the time you make that move over, you know, 700 yards to close the distance, everything looks different and they can walk you into it.
00:58:09
Speaker
Yeah. So a couple of things on that is you nailed it. If you can have a three man team, that's very deadly. And, and, you know, I said earlier to once you find a deer you want to kill, never take your eyes off it.
00:58:21
Speaker
Your job as the spotter, so in this, in Drew's situation, you're the third guy, you're the eyes in the sky, you're up high and you have the bird's eye view and you can see everything. You have to understand your job is the most important job of the whole three.
00:58:35
Speaker
It's the most important because if that deer moves, if that deer gets up, you are the one that is going to track that deer and say, guys, that deer has moved on us. You're down there sitting. He's not even on your hill. We need to relocate. you Your job as a spotter, eyes in the sky, is the most important ingredient to success.
00:58:56
Speaker
The other thing you have to understand is do not take that position lightly because that is not time to go to your backpack and get food and take a leak and do whatever you got to do. Like what we do is we say,
00:59:08
Speaker
Okay, we've got a deer we want to kill. I'm going to keep my eyes on it. You get your backpack, get your water out, get your food out, go take a leak. If you have to do whatever you have to do, because once you as eyes in the sky, get your eyes in those binos,
00:59:22
Speaker
You're in for the duration. So when Dar or Phil or one of my guides is eyes in the sky, I know that even if they have to go the bathroom, they are not taking their eyes out of their binoculars. Because if they do, that deer could just slip over the ridge and then you, the shooter and the other spotter spend all day looking in the wrong spot and the deer moved.
00:59:47
Speaker
So You have to keep your eyes on it. And, and when you get trusted hunting partners that you hunt with that you're like, they'll say, I've never taken my eye off the deer.
00:59:58
Speaker
I know we can't see him, but I'm telling you, Jay, 100%, that deer is there. Going back to what we said about the spotter and the shooter with the third party, it's also important when you leapfrog up to the position that the third party that you communicate and say, okay.
01:00:15
Speaker
Eyes in the sky, we're using the white rock that's just to the right of the Saguaro. Do you see that white rock? And then eyes in the sky says, yes. You do the same points of interest with your spotter.
01:00:29
Speaker
Because you usually have time to be like, okay, if if you're using a radio and the the shooter and the spotter are going and they're on their stock, I'm eyes in the sky and I'm telling them everything's fine. Nothing's changed.
01:00:44
Speaker
um I'm not even going to call you unless something's changed. So you pretty much want radio silence unless something is changing. So that's that's a good rule and ah and a good tip.
01:00:55
Speaker
And Then when you get down there as the spotter, we've already said, do you see that Saguaro? The deer are going to be 50 yards below that Saguaro. So once the shooter and the spotter get in their position, they get all set up.
01:01:10
Speaker
Now the eyes and sky says, do you see the Saguaro? Yes. Nothing's changed. The deer still right there. We can't see him. Jay, I can't see, I can see it.
01:01:21
Speaker
I can see the Saguaro, but I can't see 50 yards. Okay. You guys need to move to a different spot. Like that's where the communication of like, Do you see what we're after? Yes.
01:01:33
Speaker
Can you see where I'm telling you the deer are? Yes. If the answer is no, then it's like, no. you have any other spot that you can see that will get you up a little bit higher where you can see in there?
01:01:44
Speaker
No, this is it. Okay. Then we have an area of blackout that Like we're going to have to deal with and we have to hope the deer goes uphill. Okay. Sometimes you can't get a better spot, but maybe they say, Jay, we can't see the deer. We won't be able to shoot him if he gets up. Okay.
01:02:01
Speaker
Back out, move over to another spot. Then when you get there, can you see the white rocks? Yes. Can you see the Saguaro? Yes. Can you see 50 yards below? Yes. I see a mesquite tree.
01:02:12
Speaker
Yes. That's where the deer is. Okay. We've got them. So work through that process. And if you can do that time in and you know time and time again, you're going to be more effective.
01:02:24
Speaker
And I think the number one reason I've lost Coos deer is the trust me, he's there. Cause like when I, like you'll, i I can't tell you how many times I've gotten impatient and said, he's not there anymore.
01:02:39
Speaker
And then all of a sudden that deer, I try and make a move and he blows out of the bush. And I mean, I'm 200 yards. I think one time there's a two, I'm 200 yards from a bush looking at it for two hours and there's no deer.
01:02:50
Speaker
And then I move up and the deer blows out of that bush. you're just like, What the heck? So the eyes in the sky telling him you, trust you, he's there. You have to believe he's there. I'm telling you guys, you're listening. If you've never had a koozie here, you can look at a koozie in your glass, look over your buddy and look back in your glass.
01:03:06
Speaker
It'll take you five minutes to find him and he's still standing there. Yeah. Yeah. You think he's gone. You think he's gone and all he does. And then all of sudden he flicks an ear and you're like, he's right in the center of my binos. He's been there the whole time and I can't see him. And he flicks in ear and you're like, he never moved. He's right there.
01:03:22
Speaker
Yeah. It's, it's, it's such a straight, it's such a, I mean, just a magical deer, but like they're, they're so switched on yet. It could be so still.
01:03:34
Speaker
I mean, how many times you look at a deer that stood there for an hour straight and not flinched a muscle? Yeah. I mean, they're there. That's the thing I always say, you know, you take people that are seasoned coos deer hunters, you put them anywhere in the world, hunting anything. I'll put my money on the seasoned coos deer hunters. They just, they're, they're,
01:03:54
Speaker
They're a hard enough animal to see. They're super weary, super spooky. Like if you can get really good at, at harvesting coos deer, I I'm pretty confident you can really go anywhere in the world and glass them up and, and hunt anything in the world. So that was awesome. So now let's say we've already, now we've killed this coos deer.
01:04:14
Speaker
Now we're just going to wrap this pod out here. yeah Now we've got to bring people on. What do you do with the meat? Now there's two options,
Handling Deer Trophy and Border Crossings
01:04:20
Speaker
right? A lot of times like we'll we'll do all this time as far as leave our meat with the Cowboys. We'll leave our meat on the ranch. Hey, you guys have our meat. We're taking, we're not taking it back.
01:04:27
Speaker
You can bring it back with you. It's totally you okay. um Bringing back your euros or your skull caps. What does that look like? What does it look like bringing a hide back? Cause this is where people are go get in trouble is coming back.
01:04:39
Speaker
And this is when you're in trouble with not federalize, get in trouble with, The border patrol and the customs, US u customs. Yeah. let Let me, let me say one thing, but just so I don't miss it. You can bring all the meat back, but it has to be 100% boned out. So in other words, you can't bring any bones. So you can bring all of your meat back on, on your declaration. It would say, let's say you're bringing deer antlers, deer cape, and the meat, just put deer antlers, deer cape and meat, but understand you have to bone the meat completely out. Now, when it comes to antlers, um you can either do a cape, you know, shoulder mount, full body mount, whatever, bring the cape back and and bring them antlers. What most guys do is they'll either do a skull. So they're going to boil.
01:05:27
Speaker
a lot of times take a big pot. Sometimes at the ranches they'll have where you can just put the pot on the stove. Same one they cook with. Some guys take little propanes. and, and take a big pot and they boil their skull or you can skull cap it. So if you're just going to skull cap it, ah you know, a simple saw skull cap, but make sure all of the hair and all of the meat on the antlers is totally clean and dried on, on the European or on the boiled skull, you need to go a step further. You need to make sure all of the meat is off inside the brain stem, inside the brain cavity. that that's boiled and all of that there can be no meat no cartilage it needs to be totally dry so when you get to the u.s customs they want the the antlers uh and and the the deer heads to be dry no hair no meat and dry as far as the capes if they find one tick dead or alive
01:06:26
Speaker
they will confiscate the cape. There's no arguing with them. Sometimes, sometimes they'll let you pick off a few ticks until it passes inspection. But most of the time they're just going to put it in a bag, put some confiscation tape and it's gone and you're never going to get it back.
01:06:42
Speaker
So some, uh, tips that we give are, we, we call them tick picking parties. Um, you know, uh, There's, there's lots of things you can put the Cape in a freezer. If there's a freezer at the ranch and you can freeze it a lot of times that allows you then to comb. What I do is I, before I freeze the Cape, I'm going to comb it.
01:07:04
Speaker
I'm going to take down several different combs and, and grooves within the comb, different sizes of, of grooves. And, and I'm going to comb those capes and I'm also going to take tweezers and, um, things that I can pick the ticks out.
01:07:21
Speaker
Some capes will have uh, uh, ticks. Some capes will have two or three ticks, 10 ticks, and some will have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds. So, you know, you just hope when you shoot one that you don't have one of the capes that's, you know, hundreds, hundreds of ticks. If you do, it's going to just take hours to pick and comb that out. um you know I've heard of guys taking ah cans of ether.
01:07:49
Speaker
putting the cape and ah in a plastic bag, spraying ether in there, and then closing the bag up and then letting it, so it's basically fumigating the whole bag and then give it a couple hours, open the bag up and those ticks will be off the cape. Then you scrape, maybe do it again, do the process again.
01:08:08
Speaker
um There's really no easy way to do it. You're going to have to pick ticks. ah and And, you know, you said on the meat, Uh, back to the meat, you can leave the meat with the cowboys. You can have, you know, the last couple of nights of your hunt, you can eat, eat as much of the meat as you want. Take, ah take the rest, or you can put it all in a cooler. It has to be boned out. Um, the capes.
01:08:32
Speaker
Uh, the best thing to do is freeze those capes, clean the ticks off of them. And, but they want the capes to be pliable at the crossing. So they can't be rock hard frozen because if they can't inspect the capes, they're not going to let those capes cross. So I like to freeze them, but then I like to let them thaw like the night before you're going to leave so that when you get to the border, they're still cold, but they're able to pull.
01:09:00
Speaker
um look at all of the CAPE. they They really look around the eyes, or excuse me, the the the ears um and and ah and around the back of the neck. They really look on the face. But I've seen some inspectors inspect, like spend 15 minutes per CAPE and just look through everything. And I've seen some inspectors, you know, just kind of look real fast and and say it's good.
01:09:23
Speaker
My recommendation is once the officer says this one's good, put that thing in a bag and get it, go to the next one. Like, don't mess around. I've seen, ah one story where a guy, he really wanted his cape. It had, I think a split ear and he was like, I really want my cape. And he shot early, he shot on the second or third day. So he actually was so worried about it. He didn't even hardly go out and hunt. With his buddies, he just stayed and picked and picked and picked. And he was one that literally you could fill up a whole 16 ounce water bottle full of ticks. That's what we do is we open a water bottle and just start putting the ticks in there.
01:09:58
Speaker
And we would come back from a hunt and he'd have like three quarters of the bottle filled with ticks. I'm like, oh my gosh, this guy got it. You know, it just happened to get one of the bad ones that has hundreds and maybe thousands of ticks.
01:10:09
Speaker
He spent the whole time picking. And I mean, he had to have the cleanest Cape in the whole world and In between putting that in a clean bag and going to the border, there was one tick, not on the cape, it was in the bag.
01:10:26
Speaker
and And all of the other capes made it. And this guy's cape, the officer said, this tick came off, it's in this bag, I'm going to confiscate it. I tried to talk to the the inspector and you know just said, can we go through it again? I promise you, there's you will not find a tick. And he said, I'm sorry, it's in the bag, like it's confiscated.
01:10:46
Speaker
I would tell you from experience, you know, the, the inspectors, they're just doing their job. It doesn't do any good to get mad at them. the The last thing we want to do as hunters, you know, American hunters is come to our own, uh,
01:11:01
Speaker
you know, Department of Ag and start giving them lip. It is what it is. It's a rule. If you get, if you get caught with a tick and they decide like it's the way it goes and and it's the brakes. One of the things you can do is buy a cape when you get back in the US. I recommend everybody, even if you're not mounting your buck, maybe bring a cape in case your buddy's gets taken, he can have yours. But again, when we're dealing with the Mexican authorities, when we're dealing with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife or the, you know, that the ag people, ah Border Patrol, any of that, we need to be
01:11:37
Speaker
we I mean, Drew, we're believers in Christ and you and I, we feel like we always answer to a higher standard. Even people that don't have the same belief system as we do, I feel like we owe it to these people to to act differently. Don't get mad at them. They're just doing their job.
01:11:56
Speaker
Anytime you have some sort of issue, maybe something in your vehicle that they don't like seeing and or you know they're going to some sort of contraband, don't get mad at them, discuss with them, communicate with them, understand that you broke a rule.
01:12:09
Speaker
Maybe they'll let you go. Maybe they won't. But the reality is they're people, they're just doing their jobs and, and we need to treat them fairly and, and treat them good. And they have families just like we do.
01:12:22
Speaker
Um, so I, you know, everyone we run into, we just try and be as nice as we can. And if, if there's a rule that we've broken and there's a consequence, then we pay the consequence. Yeah, again, I've been going down for, i mean, I've been hunting in Mexico for my third year now. I've had an issue, of I've been going to Mexico my whole life. I'll be 40 this year, and I never really had a problem. Like you said, always just been respectful and had a good time.
Podcast Excitement and HuntScore App Discussion
01:12:46
Speaker
Yeah. But, ah man, Jay, I'm just so blessed to call out my friend. I'm so blessed to a podcast with you, and I'm so excited to go home on your ranches next week, man.
01:12:57
Speaker
Um, what if people want to go hunting with you? i talked to my, my marketing guy yesterday about this podcast and he's like, i mean, I feel like koojiers is such a niche thing. It's so unobtainable. I'm like, man, it's not unobtainable. Honestly, bang for the buck.
01:13:13
Speaker
It's one of the least expensive fights you can go do right now. I think it's one of the greatest hunts in North America, to be honest with you with the the spot and stock method and, and you know, glassing and, and, you know, having a wary animal to hunt and, and a, you know, potential for big deer and, and whatnot. I think it's the, one of the most underrated, uh, North American big game hunts there are for sure. So, uh, you know, I encourage anyone that hasn't had the ability to go on a cooster hunt, uh, to get out there on a cooster hunt because, you know, they're an amazing animal. And I just think it's, Definitely one of the most underrated animals to hunt. And, ah you know, I'm Lord willing, I'm looking forward to this 30th season and can't wait, cannot wait to get down there. And I'm excited for all the hunters that are going down, whether you're going down with us or someone else, I wish you the best of success. And enjoy it, um, and grind, you know, it's a grind. Don't it's, it's not easy. You hear the stories. Sometimes it's easy, but a lot of times it's a grind. Enjoy the process.
01:14:16
Speaker
Uh, enjoy the grind. And, um, you know, that grind that we go through that, that, you know, whether it's hunting or anything else, a lot of times the grind makes us better. And if we go at it with that perspective, I think it makes all of us better people.
01:14:31
Speaker
And, If you are not following Jay Scott, go follow him. And then we never even talked about HuntScore. So give HuntScore a plug real quick because Jay's got an awesome app out right now that you can actually score these deer on your phone.
01:14:43
Speaker
Yeah. So, you know, I've written a lot of articles over the years on field judging all sorts of North American big game animals. And ah we wanted to put all of that into an app. And so we created HornScore.
01:14:58
Speaker
and released it around June or July of this last summer. An interesting thing, Drew, you probably don't even know is um Blake and i and Justin, we are actually right in the middle of a complete renovation of the app. We got some unbelievable feedback from ah a lot of our users. about having it be so feature-rich that it was a little bit ah harder to use. And um so we are actually in the trenches right now of of complete redesign, ah redesigning the flow of how the app works and making the features easier to access, easier to see. And i can't wait to see
01:15:41
Speaker
share that with people, but the, the app is available, uh, on the app store. Uh, it is horn score. Just go there and everybody gets a 14 day free trial. Uh, it's 49 bucks for the year. So it's an annual subscription. Um, and it basically has all of the North American animals.
01:15:58
Speaker
Um, we have some incredible features that we're adding. Um, and I can't wait to share it with everyone, but it's, it's, it's been a real blessing to hear from people using the app and see the value that it's provided to a lot of people. And all I want to do, and you know, my focus is to promote hunting and fishing in the most positive light that we can, that I can.
01:16:23
Speaker
um And I feel like this app is just an extension of that in in that it's providing really good value to people to score their harvested animals and then field judge their animals on the app. Coos Deer is, there's a big feature on Coos Deer.
01:16:39
Speaker
um There's a public scores feature that you can see all everyone else's bucks. There's a guess the score feature where you can have people guess the score on your bucks and we've got a lot of things in store. i appreciate you mentioning it. um And again, ah you know, I know with your company, with Tricer, with the success you've had with Tricer, you know, spending a lot of time with you. And anytime I'm over in California, we try and have lunch or or something. i know it's important for you. You just want people to be successful. You know, the success of these companies is is one thing, but
01:17:13
Speaker
You know, we, we want to let our light shine. We want to help people. We want people to be better. We want people to be successful. And if we can do that, make the world a better place by making great products, and then that's,
01:17:26
Speaker
That's ah you know ah a great motto. And I know with Tricer, yes, you make a great product, but it's also how you make it. It's the way you go about it It's the way you present yourself. All of the things that you do with the money that you make from Tricer and all of the support that you give to ah you know the foundations and stuff that you support, that's important. And so I commend you on that. You're you're a young guy. Still to me, you're a young guy, but you're you're doing things right. And it's really nice to see someone that, um you know, took a dream and followed that dream and has had the success that you've had.
01:18:07
Speaker
um It's commendable. You know, walked away from a family business that was is and was doing incredible and you had a dream and you wanted to follow that dream. And, you know, I'm, I'm sure Tricer has done things that, that you never, even you couldn't dream, uh, big enough that it's, it's already surpassed that. But a lot of that is, um, in how you've done it and your presentation and,
01:18:30
Speaker
um So I want to commend you on that and continue to make these great products. And, you know, people don't know this, but there's been several times when Drew and I have had conversations and, and I've given them some critical feedback on things.
Future Collaborations and Gratitude
01:18:44
Speaker
And I mean,
01:18:45
Speaker
I know more than go to bed and get up the next morning at two, three in the morning. I've got drawings from drew with improvements that he's made to his product. And he's like, I got it. I came up with it.
01:18:57
Speaker
I spent all night and there, you know, he's, he's made these changes. So keep doing what you do, ah buddy. I love the fact that you're doing the podcast and, and talking with people and It it allows people to see you and and um know you.
01:19:13
Speaker
um So it's kind of a long-winded thank you for everything you do, Drew. And I'm really excited about your opportunity to go to Mexico. Just enjoy every second of it and hope you guys have a great time.
01:19:27
Speaker
Thanks, Jay. Hopefully we go to Mexico together in 2027. Stay tuned, everybody, for that one. We're working on it. All right, buddy. Sounds good. God bless. God bless. Enjoy it. Thanks, Jay.