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Why Most Coyote Stands Fail, Calls, Systems and Speed with Geoff Nemnich
294 Plays2 days ago
In this episode of the Tricer Podcast, Drew Miles and Mike Herne sit down with Geoff Nemnich of Lucky Duck to break down why so many coyote stands fail—and how to dramatically increase your odds of success. Geoff dives deep into stand selection, wind management, sound strategy, and efficient systems, explaining why calling is often the least important part of killing coyotes. From beginner mistakes to advanced sound theory, this episode is packed with practical predator-hunting knowledge you can apply immediately.
Topics Covered
- Geoff Nemnich’s background and path into predator hunting
- Why predator hunting builds better overall hunters
- Hand calls vs electronic calls: advantages and limitations
- Why most coyote stands fail before the call starts
- Macro vs micro location selection
- Wind direction, crosswind setups, and the “pie” concept
- Stand access, parking strategy, and stealth approaches
- Elevation mistakes and forced-visibility setups
- Sound categories: prey distress, howls, and pup distress/fights
- Why pup distress works year-round
- Sound aggression levels and when to increase intensity
- Why sound choice matters less than setup and location
LINKS: War on Dogs and Hogs Giveaway: https://tricer.com/pages/war-on-dogs-hogs
Lucky Duck Decoys:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/luckyduckdecoys
Website: https://www.luckyduck.com
The Last Stand: Website: https://www.tlshunt.com
TRICER USA Website – https://tricerusa.com/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tricerusa/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/tricerusa/
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@tricer6985
#CoyoteHunting #PredatorHunting #CoyoteCalling #PredatorControl #LuckyDuck #JeffNemnich #HuntingPodcast #WesternHunting #Coyotes #PredatorCalls #HuntingStrategy #Tricer
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Transcript
Distinct Skills in Coyote Hunting
00:00:00
Speaker
To me, we talked about all this calling stuff, right? And it's one big piece, you gotta get the coyotes in, but the whole killing side of things is this whole separate piece of the pie, right? Like it some guys are are decent with calling, but the killing part they struggle at, you know? Some guys are really good at the killing part, real proficient with their guns, but they don't really know the, you know, the calling side of it. So it's being able to put both together, that's how you get piles of coyotes in front of the camera.
Meet the Guests
00:00:26
Speaker
What is up, everybody? Welcome back to the Tracer podcast. I'm excited for this one because I get to have ah Jeff Nimnick from Lucky Duck on as a marketing bri brand marketing guy. What are you? Just professional coyote killer of Lucky Duck, I guess you could call it. Maybe, I don't know. you know Predator marketing manager is is my official title, but I go by many
Diverse Podcast Dynamics
00:00:49
Speaker
names. So yeah I won't tell you some of the names you've been called. But anyways, ah we also have my good buddy Mike Hurd on here, who is our community marketing guy at Tricer, who's also going be picking up some of Tricer's podcasts with me. so we can kind of like get more than just Drew's group people on here. I'm having like 140 podcasts now or something like that. So Mike's going also pick up some slack. and do some pods, some of these events he's at, some of the Predator stuff. We're going to kind of tag team this thing going forward. We probably won't be on most the pods together, but Mike's on this one with me because Mike's been out the last week just killing dogs and pigs and bobcats, all kinds of stuff. And he needs friends with Jeff. So
Passion for Predator Hunting
00:01:26
Speaker
i figured I'd bring him on, but ah how are you guys doing?
00:01:31
Speaker
Doing great, man. Excited to be on with you guys. Yeah, i'm ah I'm real stoked to have Jeff on. He is a legend in the Predator space. So Yeah, man. i ah i So anyone, like people probably wouldn't believe it, but I think I like predator hunting as much as I like deer hunting.
00:01:49
Speaker
that says a lot. i I absolutely love it. I feel the reason why I have gotten so good at big game hunting, a lot of it is from predator hunting and making mistakes, learning how to play the wind, learning what a good stand setup looks like, and also just covering so much ground and learning. like You learn
Advantages of Year-Round Predator Hunting
00:02:05
Speaker
a lot. like I killed two bucks. Well, I killed one. My buddy killed another one out of an area in San Diego this year because during October, i called those bucks in was hunting coyotes and I stood one up and I called one in and, uh, I didn't shoot them then, but I, I, I stood them up and then we went back, went back the next month. We both killed deer in this area in San Diego. Cause when you're out there, you just get, you get to hunt You can do predator hunting year round versus, you know one week.
00:02:31
Speaker
Yeah, that's that's what always appealed to me. I've never been a real patient person, honestly. yeah you know i mean We were talking before, I've never sat in a blind waiting on an animal to show up. I mean i did some waterfowl hunting way back in the day, and I just always remember all the work that went into that each morning to get the decoys set out and and find the place, and then you're sitting there, and then the geese land across the dirt road in the other field, you know and you're just sitting there, well, we just wasted all that time because they're over there, right? and You know, that's one thing that's always appealed to me with calling coyotes is the ability for me to to actively pursue them for as long as I want, honestly, right? I mean, I squeeze the trigger here, kill one, my hunt's not over. I can go shoot another and another and another and another, and I can just keep hunting. If I want to hunt all day, I hunt all day. If I want to hunt four hours, I hunt four hours. If I want to hunt all day and all night, I hunt all day and all night, you know, so... That's just what makes a predator hunting great to
Jeff Nimnick's Journey into Predator Hunting
00:03:23
Speaker
me. And then as the shooting side of things too, is, uh, I've, I've just always loved to shoot. I've always been a good shooter.
00:03:29
Speaker
Um, and, and the challenge that predator hunting has always put forth, uh, from a marksman's shell stand marksman skills standpoint has, has been something that I've always enjoyed. So, so yeah, where we are Jeff, let's break that down. When, how did you get into predator hunting?
00:03:45
Speaker
you know kind of by accident honestly uh i grew up probably like a lot of us everybody listening you know my dad took me out hunting and uh whether it was ducks or geese pheasants shot my first deer when i was when i think in nebraska you could get a deer license when you're 14 at that time it's since lowered but uh so yeah did all that shot antelope uh several antelope as a as a kid um shot a few coyotes just by happenstance right you know You've overheard it. You know, anytime you're out hunting and you see a coyote, it turns into a coyote hunt, right? You know, so throw it out across the hood, bouncing off across pasture and you shoot a coyote. um But it really wasn't until I 16. I kind of had the freedom of of going on my own with a vehicle that I got into predator hunting. just kind of stumbled pro upon a a lanyard of hand calls.
00:04:31
Speaker
in a public hunting area that some guy obviously had been out there hunting, had dropped him out of his truck and drove off and didn't realize it And I picked him up and this is back in the mid nineties. There wasn't, there wasn't the internet, there wasn't video, there wasn't all this stuff out there. So there wasn't a any way to really learn other than just trying to figure it out on your own. So that's kind of how I got the start in it.
00:04:50
Speaker
Uh, you
Focus on Coyote Hunting
00:04:51
Speaker
know, dabbled around in high school a little bit here and there, you know, we were educating coyotes left and right. Um, You know, and then i went into the Marine Corps. So while was in the Marine corps for four years, i I didn't get to do a lot of hunting, you know, just home back home a couple times a year was all you know. and But once I got out of the Marine Corps, I took advantage of the GI Bill, started going to college.
00:05:11
Speaker
At that point, I had a lot of hands a lot of time on my hands. And... um Uh, that's when I started a lawn care business as well. Um, and that's kind of what has catapulted me, you know, having a lawn care business, a gave me the winters off, which gave me a ah lot of time to hunt coyotes.
00:05:27
Speaker
And if you want to get good at something, you just got to do it a lot. Um, and then I kind of made a switch there in the early two thousands. I was hunting everything. I got into long range shooting. I was big game hunting, waterfowl hunting. And for me, like I, all the things I talked about here a little bit ago,
00:05:41
Speaker
I just loved coyote hunting and I thought, you know what, I i want to get good at this. And if I'm going to have 60 or 80 days of winter to hunt, I can't hunt coyotes, 15 of them, hunt deer, 15, waterfowl, this and that. I'm like, I got to hunt coyotes like 95% of the days if I want to get good it. And that's kind of what I did. I just kind of gave up everything else and said, you know what, I love hunting coyotes and that's what I want to get good at. And
Transition to Electronic Calls
00:06:02
Speaker
you know, that was, you know, 22, 23 years ago and the rest is history, I guess.
00:06:09
Speaker
That's awesome. Finding a lanyard of hand calls. Yeah, it was no critical down in your country. You know, there was major Boddicker critter calls. don't He was down in Southern Colorado is where he was out of, um you know, and it was like the little peewee hand call. I mean, I think there, actually I actually, I've met a guy at a sports show not long ago that actually bought that company um and is still trying to sell hand calls and still trying to keep that going amongst the, ah the monster of e-calls out there right now, you know, the monster market that there's, that's out there, but,
00:06:37
Speaker
ah do still have something Do you still have that lanyard? No, I wish I did. Me too. I have my original e-calls. you know It didn't take me long um to make the switch, honestly. I i saw the disadvantages of hand calls early on. yeah I was like, man, I wish there was a better way to do this. and then you know the early line of e-calls were cassette decks and, and things like that. And there was even earlier ones before that, but the first ones I had ran off cassette tapes.
00:07:05
Speaker
Um, but I just so actually still have those out in my garage, you know, so it's kind of fun to break those out for my boys to see that every now and then to say, Hey, this is the old school way, you know, or break it up there, you know, the cassette deck and pop a tape in there and let it play, you know? So when it comes to calling, that's a good, that's a good point. Cause I just bought, I literally just bought some hand calls. from sportsman's warehouse last night we were stocking up on ammo getting ready to go hard in the paint yeah killing coyotes and i was like i am a new i got addicted quick My roommate's been killing coyotes since he was a kid. He grew up on a ranch in western Washington or eastern Washington, sorry. And so he's been he's been murdering coyotes since he was 12, right? And so he's a and he's addicted to it. And he would we've been friends forever. After the big game seasons would close, he's like, I'm going coyote hunting. I'm like, I got work to do. I can't be out there. I can't be out there shooting dogs. I went out and and it was the first stand we called in a pair of coyotes and I, I'm just sitting there watching these dogs run in and I'm like, why have I been sticking my nose in the air at this Like why why have I not, why have I not? Yeah. Why have I not tried this? But so I bought some hand calls last night and one of my goals is to kill a coyote with a hand call. Cause I feel like you can't really be a predator hunter until you've done it. Right.
00:08:25
Speaker
Growing up in the military, you got to earn your stripes. So that's one of my goals. So like, when do you prefer hand calls? If at all, based on your statement, when do you prefer a hand call over an e-call? Zero. I don't, I can't tell Well, I,
00:08:37
Speaker
I mean, I've called coyotes with a hand call twice in the last decade, probably. Okay. um You know, and here's why. A, I'm lazy. You know, I mean, hand calls are a lot of work, right? But that's how it all started, right? I mean, there wasn't the technology we have now.
00:08:54
Speaker
um And i've I've always been a ah huge technology guy. i jumped on the AR-15 train way early, 2004. two thousand and four You know, I'm all in about the optics. Yeah.
00:09:06
Speaker
So technology has always been part of, I'm going to use it as my advantage as a hunter, right? To take advantage of that. So yeah, I mean, hand calls to me, you know, that's how I started early on. But like I said, i very early on, I was like, man, this is not, i mean, it's cool because you're like blowing the air in them and things happen. So it it gives you more of a self, maybe a self-accomplishment thing. i don't know what it is. Right. You know, but for me, I'm like, man, my, my thumb's in shape. I'm, I can push buttons with the best of them, you know? So, um, I just saw early on the, the advantages that an electronic call offered. Um,
Technology in Modern Hunting
00:09:41
Speaker
You know, the problem with the hand call is a it takes a lot of work. And if you're hunting coyotes all day long and making 15 or 18 or 20 stands, damn, I mean, that's that right there wears you out. It's i wear my my ass out enough the way it is not a alone blown in hand call for, you know, 12 hours.
00:09:58
Speaker
um You know, another thing that early on I saw was the limitations in the types of sounds you can make, you know. I think in 2008 I was out in Ohio and there was the there was the World Predator Hunting Expo there at the time and they had a stage calling competition, almost like duck or goose calling championships where you get up there and you do a little sequence. They had the same thing for hand calls and they had like ah a rabbit division and a howling division.
00:10:23
Speaker
and that was really it. I mean, there was guys that would kind of make some weird sounds and Kai simulating like pup distresses and stuff sounds like that. But they're even the best that that could blow a hand call, they were very limited, you know, so So, yeah, I just saw early on that that the variety of sounds that you could get out of an e-call and in the types of sounds that you can't make with a hand call and how effective they were on coyotes like the pup distresses and some of the other coyote based sounds. um I knew that was a huge advantage. um And then just the volume that you can get out of an e-call versus a hand call is way higher.
00:11:00
Speaker
um That was a huge advantage to me. And then, you know, you take the fact now that, you know, these calls have remotes and I can put the call wherever I want, you know, and funnel coyotes into shooting lanes, funnel funnel coyotes into places where, you know, I can get them killed because they're they're focused on the sound, not me sitting off on the sidelines, which vice versa, when you're hand calling, the sound's coming right from you, you know, so they're seeing you, they're they're they're hunting you they're they're coming after your your wind i mean all that kind of plays into play so so much more advantage of the e-call but yeah i mean i like i said i think i've blown a hand call honestly like two stands in the last 10 years and that's only because my my e-call died on me the backup i had in my truck for some reason the battery was dead on it and we're down to like the last stand of the day or something i said oh let's just give it a shot you know this so so yeah you won't catch me blowing hand calls but
00:11:51
Speaker
okay that's all right i'm gonna i'm gonna still do it just so i can say well you gotta do it you gotta you gotta earn your stripe man yeah so at least i killed the cut with the hand call you know but that so again like i i just like i am i am green but i'm i'm addicted i have a it's a problem like i look forward to big game seasons being over and the buck i shot this year i literally shot it because my roommates like and my predator hunting partner he's like hey it's, it's time to start killing coyotes. He's like, so like either kill this deer or like, maybe we'll see a deer when we're predator hunting. Right. So it's, ah it's all predators from now till spring basically. And you had a really good experience, right? I mean, the first kind of, it sounds like the first time your buddy took you out, you had a great interaction, right? You got to see it work. I mean, I hear from guys all the time, whether it's social media, DMS, I mean, comments on stuff and,
00:12:43
Speaker
And honestly, a lot of guys do not get that experience right off the bat. It takes them some time. Like they that the dedication to it, like they they grind it out and they're like, man, I see this happening on social media and on YouTube and I'm watching the last stand and I'm watching and seeing you guys do all this stuff. But I've been out like I've made like 20 stands or I've hunted this many days and I haven't called in a coyote yet, you know. Yeah. um So, you know, luckily for you, you kind of had a guy to kind of take you under your wing a little bit and say, hey, he had a good idea of what needs to happen. a lot of these guys are trying to start from scratch and they don't.
00:13:15
Speaker
And, you know, nothing, always say this a lot in the coyote world, like nothing translates to coyote hunting, really. Like if you've hunted deer your whole life or hunted turkeys or waterfowl, like that skill set, you've learned hunting that particular animal.
00:13:30
Speaker
very few pieces of it translate over to how you have to hunt coyotes. Um, so a lot of guys struggle and it's, it's, you know, just a hard thing to to pick up without having the time it takes to, to really get the experience. Well, let's talk about, let's talk about some ways we can help guys improve that experience because we're, we're getting ready to kick off this big, this big campaign, right? The war on dogs. war Yeah. yes That's going to launch January 1st. I don't know when this podcast is coming out, but like, so I'm a beginner by all like by,
00:14:00
Speaker
my roommate knows what sounds to play. And I've been listening to, I've been watching the last stand and then trying to figure out what sounds you're playing. Right. But, but let's talk like, what are some like beginner, beginner call strategies? Yeah. but true yeah
Effective Stand Setup
00:14:16
Speaker
i war drew Before calls, i mean, I'm going let you go Jeff, because I'm not an expert at anything. I kill a lot of dogs, but no, I mean, I'm not like you are. Like, I think the biggest thing before we're about the call is the stand and where you set up for the stand. Like if if like if I sit down to stand and and I'm like, I don't like the stand, I won't even call it because like I want to have that elevation. I want to see what's going on. Cause I think of times you think like, Oh, he's put my call up there. They're going come into it. Half the time that dog's coming in a hundred yards to your right, a hundred yards to your left. Like if I don't feel like it's a good stand to call, i won't even call it.
00:14:47
Speaker
Um, set up, set up and wind. And then the calls kind of like my what really got me when I learned how to set up with, with where I'm sitting for like my observation point, my wind, then the calling just started falling into place for me.
00:15:01
Speaker
Yeah, to me, I mean, therere a lot of guys worry about the sound itself, right? And and to me, that is secondary, right? The location by far is the most important piece, right? and And location in a couple different meanings, meaning location, are there even coyotes here?
00:15:17
Speaker
um Are the coyotes here? have Have they been pressured to a certain extent? Meaning, have guys been in there already hunting in the last few weeks, the last month? Have they killed coyotes out of there already? Which means there's just gonna be less coyotes to call in.
00:15:31
Speaker
um you know and then obviously once you start narrowing that down a little bit you know you get to the to the you know the actual place where you're the location we're actually going to sit down where you can see right so there's a big location there's kind of a macro side of it and um in a micro side and when i do ah you know my coyote school stuff and all that that's where i always start hey we start about learning about coyotes right i think that's the most important thing a lot of guys bypass that they don't there's like i'm gonna hunt coyotes well Before all this, you probably need to know a little bit about coyotes, right? Like just let's just learn what coyotes are doing in October and what that dynamic looks like versus February. What's that look like in June? You know, understanding how coyotes work, how they move, things like that.
00:16:11
Speaker
Then you kind of find the macro location and you start finding places to where you can hunt. And that's just as simple as um do I do I live? in the Southwest where there's tons of public land everywhere, you know, and I have lots of options. If you live out, you know, more in the and the Western side of that, the Midwest, now you're dealing with private land.
00:16:30
Speaker
All right. So now I got to knock on doors. I got to get permission. I got to maybe go to some of the spots that I have spent time hunting deer, or turkeys or or whatever on that I already know, you know. And then that point, you have to learn the land a little bit. You have to learn where the access points are. How can I get to where I want to go? How do I look at that that property out there, that area and figure out, okay, if I was a coyote and it's 10 in the morning, what?
00:16:56
Speaker
probability say I should probably be here or if it's, you know, sun up or sun down, how does that change? um So there's all these little things that you're kind of juggling to try to find the general location. And then from there, it's like, like you said, Drew, now I say, okay, I'm going to go in there into that area and make one stand. Okay. So now, now you're using the access. Okay. How am I driving into that stand? Because obviously you don't want to drive your vehicle or your side by side right through where you're going to call because the coyotes are going to get bumped out of there. So you got to kind of use a stealthy approach to kind of get in there. Then you got to park at some point and walk, whether that's 50 yards or 500 yards, every stand is going to be a little bit different depending how you can get in. And then once I, you know, get there, i I got to get to the spot without hopefully the coyotes knowing I'm there. And obviously that's a big, big challenge out where you're at, Mike, in Eastern Colorado. I mean, it's like a pancake and a lot of that stuff, right? So Every place has its challenges of hiding a vehicle, getting in a stand. You get to the Midwest, even some of that Southwestern stuff, there's lots of brush and you know rocky terrain and stuff like that. So hiding a vehicle and and getting into a stand isn't as challenging.
00:17:58
Speaker
So every part of the country has its own challenge with that piece. But then, yeah, once I sit down, okay, now I sit down, where do I actually sit? Right. Am I going to sit? Some guys will tell you to lay the prone at the top of the tallest hill. I mean, I'm a big I'm a guy that just wants to sit down just because you have that much more mobility swinging left and right, because a lot of times you don't always know exactly where the coyote is going to come in. You're just hoping you're in the right general area.
00:18:21
Speaker
um And then, yeah, you know, some guys want elevation. um Elevation is nice, but from what I see, most guys try to get too much elevation. um And then you run into problems of coyote skyline and you're checking up down low where they can sit up and look at you or look at least where the call's at. And sometimes coyotes just don't want to travel up that way. So... I talk about it a lot in in my online schools and all that kind of stuff where sometimes I purposely set up limiting my visibility, which sounds crazy.
00:18:48
Speaker
But guess what? If I can't see, so can the coyote. It can't see either. And it forces them. Curiosity kills a lot of coyotes and it forces them to come to certain spots to where they can finally see, which usually in that case, they're already in range and and they're dead coyotes. So...
00:19:03
Speaker
So there's lots of little factors that come in when you're setting up. And then do, am I hunting by myself? You know, that's a lot different than if hunting with two or three buddies because now I have more guns. I have more sets of eyes. I can spread guys out a little bit. But the problem when you spread out, you lose communication. Okay, are we hooked into two-way radios? I mean, there's lots of different things you could do there. So you're kind of juggling this.
00:19:24
Speaker
this, you know, mass amount of variables every time you're going in and out, you know, and then obviously the wind direction is another huge one that plays into your setup, you know, is the wind in a favorable direction, meaning, you know, is the wind blowing out into the area where I think the coyotes are going to come from, you know, cause that's not great. You know, you're just giving the coyote that advantage. So you want the wind blowing back to where potentially where you park the vehicle or to an area maybe that, you know, already can see the vehicle or something like that, you know? So yeah, lots and lots of
Wind and Positioning Strategies
00:19:53
Speaker
factors that you're, kind of juggling each time you you go in and out of a spot yeah i would also say we haven't even got to the call part yet which i know is where mike's taking us um learning to hunt a crosswind was something that really helped me caught hunting as well learning that i don't have to have necessarily in my face as long as like you said it's kind of blowing across or not into where they they're gonna be right so you you don't have to necessarily like i was trying find the best place for me to sit
00:20:17
Speaker
and I'm kind of like, yeah, I'm kind of like a mid, like, you know, if I can get up to 10 feet, a little bit on the little side of a hill, sit down. only time I ever go prone is like a drink. Like we have a lot of these like dirt tanks out here in the Southwest. Okay. Yeah. I might go prone on a dirt tank. Cause it's just just like, you're only 10 foot tall. You know what and i mean? Some of the stuff is so flat here that you can't, you have to get up. Right. Yep. I'll go prone on something like that. You know, if I, if it's only like, you know, a little berm, but, um,
00:20:39
Speaker
Learning to kind of crosswind as well was something that really helped me and learning, you know, that you don't have to say directly in your face versus, you know, getting able see a little bit better. Yeah. i mean, that's one of those things too. And I get hit up that with that question all the time. Well, a lot of times there will be some stands you make and you have multiple access points coming into an area, right? So you have the option to come in to where you have a crosswind. Maybe you have another option to swing around this side over here and come in.
00:21:06
Speaker
to where the wind's in your face. So yeah, I'm the same way. If I can mold the setup to have a crosswind, that's great because A, I can see the entire downwind spot. There's no way the Coyote's ever going to get downwind without at least me seeing it, maybe getting a shot off. you know So that that is important. But not always do you have that option. so Um, and kind of the way I explain it, you know, everybody, when you're walking into a stand, there's always 360 degrees around you. Right.
00:21:31
Speaker
Um, we'll just call that the pie. Okay. And you're the center of the pie. Well, there's pieces of that pie that are just out of the equation. Meaning I just parked my truck there. I just walked through that piece of pie, that piece of pie over there for coyote shows up. They can see my truck parked over here. And before you know it, there's just pieces of the pie gone. And I always say, you know, you always want to try to leave yourself 180 degrees or half of that pie or more meaning. I haven't drove through it.
00:21:54
Speaker
I haven't walked through it and my wind's not blowing into it. And if you can do that, then that just increases the the probability and your, your chances of success that, Hey, if the coyotes are out there, like I said, they can't see the vehicle. They
Maximizing Sound Coverage
00:22:06
Speaker
didn't see me walk in. They didn't see me drive in. They're not going to get my wind unless they make a clear over to here. And then you have a chance to to get those coyotes killed.
00:22:14
Speaker
That's, that's really good. And I'd say it all time too. Like it is a numbers game too. It stands all of these guys. And you don't realize how many times you're calling one into the part of the pie you're not seeing too. i mean Oh yeah, it goes all over. All the time you're calling them in. You know, i mean you might think you never called a coyote and you might've called in two or three that morning, but they came into the wrong side of the pod. It happens, right? I mean, it's just, you know, especially on calm days where the sound's traveling, especially if you're using a lucky duck call, like the super volt or revolt that you're able to spin the call. I mean, that's a total game changer when it comes to that stuff. I know you, ah you know, you just got a hold of yours. I'm loving that revolt that I'm spinning it. And it was like, it was to hear the difference in sound when that thing spins.
00:22:51
Speaker
I'm like, wow, this is a game changer. Yeah, and the very first Lucky Duck call that came out was called the Revolution. um And it was named that for several different reasons. A, it was able to spin. so it was kind of a play on the word revolution, right? It was a revolution in the e-call world and revolution and it had a built-in camera. So it was kind of a cool setup. But when I first got a hold of that, and I had been using Fox Pros and all kinds of other stationary calls, meaning when I walked out there, I had my 180.
00:23:15
Speaker
you have to pick where you're gonna point that speaker, right? it is And it's like, and we've all heard it. We've all been out there. and And the more and more I learn how sound travels through stuff. I mean, wherever you point that speaker, that's the farthest the sound goes. Out to each side, it only goes maybe half as far, right? So if you have 180 degrees, a half a pie out there where the coyotes could be, and you have to point your speaker to one part of that pie, there might be a third, maybe a half of that pie that's not even getting sound to it.
00:23:45
Speaker
Yeah. It's shocking when you use the call and you hear it. like But now when you're able to spin that call, now the the farthest point that that sounds traveling will hit the end. And you're spinning call left and right. It covers the entire 180 as far as ah as it'll go. And, ah you know, some guys like it because it adds the, real you know, the difference.
00:24:03
Speaker
potential of like a realism scenario, right? Like the sounds moving. So it, some guys think it, maybe the coyotes think that that's, Oh, it's more realistic. Cause it gives that illusion. of It definitely adds another level of depth. Like if you don't have one of these, like, like I guess if we can talk about Fox for little bit. I mean, I'm not knocking Fox, but I, know knock yeah forever right. And we're gonna get into sounds now with Mike, right? Like Mike's out of it. And, uh, Like I literally for the longest time, it was like, okay, lightning jack, popping a stress. That's why have two calls. i can call anything in. I got this lucky duck call and dude, like,
00:24:36
Speaker
it it's almost like there's too many good sounds. Like everything in this thing sounds sick. It is. It honestly is, yeah. It sounds sick. And so it's good. Like, as a beginner, like I always tell people all time, like my favorite call is always Puppin' Distress. Like I feel like if I can't, if they're in the area, if you're not playing Puppin' Distress to end your stand, like you're blowing it. Like there's been so many times where I've hit Puppin' Distress the last five minutes and all sudden there's this freaking dog coming in. And honestly, it's the funnest call to hunt with because when they do come to Puppin' Distress, it's just wild. run, yeah.
00:25:02
Speaker
they' come in So let's, let's get into the sounds. Like if you're a beginning coyote hunter, there's so many sounds there. Are you kind of just sticking with, uh, you know, the Jack rabbits, the cottontails, that's pumping a stretch. What's, what's getting to that?
Sound Categorization for Hunting
00:25:14
Speaker
So, yeah, you you hit the nail on the head when you said there's so many sounds on there, right? Yeah. I mean, I think some of these calls come with 150 to 300 sounds. I think, Mike, you got SuperVolt. I think it came with 300 sounds, I believe, right? I think, Drew, you have the Revolt. It's 200 sounds, right? I mean, honestly, guys, they pull that up, and there's it's broken down into what? Like – 16 or 18 different folders, you know, to help you categorize a little bit, but it's still a lot. Like guys are overwhelmed. Like, I don't even know where to start. Do I just open a folder and start playing down the line of sounds? I mean, they didn just guys. Yeah. And your guys' as names. I want to into names at some point, but like, I'm trying to figure out what the heck, like, know, baby pup jailbreak. You know, I'm just like, what? And they all smell so good, dude. Yeah, kryptonite, pup detention. I mean, schoolyard brawl. I mean, yeah, it's all names that we sat around and just ah just came up with some fun. And that, could honestly, at some point it does confuse guys. Instead, of I mean, we could have said pup distress number one, pup distress number two, pup distress, you know, we could have named them pup distress 100, right?
00:26:12
Speaker
But at some point we're like, let's just put some cool names on these and and and You know, eventually the guys will know what they mean. But but yeah, so so once again, how can we simplify that a little bit, right? So I really break it down into three categories of sounds. You have your all your prey distress sounds. So just like you said, doesn't matter whether it's a jackrabbit, cottontail, bird, rodent.
00:26:32
Speaker
um Those are all in one category. Your second category is all your coyote howls. Some guys call them vocalizations. I don't call... There's some terminology things there, but I just call them howls, right? One alone howl, a coyote serenade, multiple coyotes, a challenge howl, a female invite, anything that wears coyotes, just howling, right? Are you including yipping in that?
00:26:52
Speaker
Like yipping and- Yipping, to me, if it's yipping and a little more squealing mixed in there, that's going to be probably in the third category, which I consider the pup distresses and the coyote fights. Oh, you do? You consider those in that? Oh, you're like the challenge barks if you're putting that in the- Yeah. Okay, okay. So me personally, I don't do any howling, right? I don't use any coyote howls. I don't either. You know, if I'm using some sort of coyote howl, it's usually for me to try to locate where the coyotes are at. If they want to answer, like we talked about, the location is one of the hardest things and you're making broad assumption that you're anticipating there's a coyote there, but...
00:27:22
Speaker
If a coyote howls out there, well, guess what? It takes the guesswork out of it. Guess what? We know there's a coyote there, right? So I use howling more as a locating tool, whether it's early in the day, early before the stand, when the stand's done.
00:27:35
Speaker
And if I can get one to howl over there, guess where I'm going to make the next stand, right? um So I'll use that. But that third category, that pup distress and coyote fights, that's the category where it's at, right? I mean, and when you talk about just e-calls in general, those are the hardest sounds to collect.
00:27:53
Speaker
Okay. That's why you don't, that's why when Rick Pellett recorded all these sounds for Lucky Ducky, change the game because up until that point, you know, if you bought a Fox pro call or ah whoever manufactured and there was a hundred sounds on there, 70 of them would be rabbits and birds.
00:28:08
Speaker
Yeah. And there'd be two or three pup distresses and a couple of howls, right? Why? Well, anybody can go catch a rabbit, shake it, get it to squeal a little bit, record it. Same with the bird. The howls, they were using those big megaphone speaker things that you see on the sidelines, of football games, you know, to get the audio of the players out there talking smack. You know, they'd get some coyotes to howl and they'd record that and try to clean it up and put it on a speaker. But the the pup distresses and the coyote fights were the hardest to get because you needed coyotes.
00:28:34
Speaker
live coyotes to make those sounds, right? So Rick kind of revolutionized that with with what he figured out. um So now when you get a Lucky Duck call, you know, 100 sounds, it's, you know, you you have 30 or 40 prey to distress sounds, you have 30 or 40 howls, and you have 30 or 40 pup distresses and coyote fights. So you have a big
Aggression Levels in Calls
00:28:51
Speaker
variation. Now, to break it down even further with each one of those categories, you kind of have an aggression level, right? Right.
00:28:58
Speaker
And what I mean by that is like, let's say you look at prey to distress, right? A very less aggressive sound would be like a rodent squeak, right? Real high pitch, just beep, beep, beep, you know, versus a loud jackrabbit sound or a loud cottontail like TNT, right? That would be more aggressive.
00:29:13
Speaker
Yep. Yep. Same within the coyote howls. You have a little pup howl, you know, high pitch just, you know, versus pair howl going. That's more aggressive. And then the same in that pup distress category, you have little picture two, two week old little coyote pups that barely have their eyes open or not even have their eyes open. And they're just squeaking and squealing a little bit, you know, and making those kinds of noises versus the knockdown drag out fights like kryptonite and coyote coon fight. Okay. Corral and, know, you fight club and all these where it's two big old coyotes getting after it. Right. Those are, I see. I had never, I've been messing with little bit and like, I had never really used like adult ones, but your adult ones have, I mean, like you'd be going, I mean, dude, like some of these sounds like,
00:29:59
Speaker
I hope we get to hunt together in the spring. I'm going to get to Yuma with you. moving to Yuma, which is like a coyote Mecca. Yeah, yeah. Anyone who knows, going out Arizona, there's so many desert units where there's just so many dogs. You can make stand after stand after stand. You're not really trying because you're going stand. But, dude, some of those adult fights, I'm really getting into because they just sound so good, man. It sounds like your dogs are going and they're fighting all sudden. One dog's winning, one dog's screaming. It's just like, this sounds...
00:30:24
Speaker
So good. It's legit. That legit. Legit fight. That is legit breed. I mean, you know, some of the breeding sounds, I mean, all that kind of weird stuff like that. It's it's legit sounds. I mean, that's not a hand call. Those are real coyotes making real coyote sounds. And like...
00:30:41
Speaker
You know, Rick and I talk about this a lot, ah sounds, you know, and we're always riding in the truck, filming the last stand, and you know how it is. You got windshield time in between stands, and you get to bullshit and stuff, and and that's we talk about that a lot, and he said he always tells me this. He's like, you know what? He says, how old does a coyote pup have to be before they know what a dying rabbit sounds like?
00:31:02
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, i four months, five months? Well, they have to catch one on their own first, right? I call more pups in. with pup in distress than I do with, I do. That's exactly why, right? I killed some like 15 pound dogs because I call pup in distress. Yeah, because a coyote doesn't know what a dying rabbit sounds like until they catch their first rabbit and it's dying in their mouth and and squealing, right? When the mom's bringing dead rabbits back to the the den, they're dead. They're not squealing anymore, right?
00:31:28
Speaker
But right from day one, coyote pups are scrapping and fighting and making noise. As soon as their eyes are open, they're trying to kill each other. They're trying to establish dominance. They're they're picking the run out and getting after it.
00:31:43
Speaker
I mean, they're fighting from day one. That's why the pup distresses just hit the coyote different. They react different to them. They come different. I mean, you could have a coyote that's like, i don't care about rabbit, but then all of a sudden, boom, pup distress.
00:31:57
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I want some of that. And why this time a year, any time year, you might have the dinkiest little 14-pound female coyote pup come bombing into a pup distress, and you're like, what? What the heck?
00:32:07
Speaker
This is like the wussiest looking little coyote, but nope, she's the meanest. She wants to come in, you know? So yeah, you never know. So, so yeah, people get wrapped up on the sounds a lot. And, and what I tell them is this, I said, let's say you took ah a Facebook post this past weekend, right? And you made a post on Facebook and said, Hey, everybody that went out hunting coyotes this past weekend, I don't care if you live in Arizona, Wisconsin, Missouri, Idaho, it doesn't matter. You write
Sound Selection and Variety
00:32:32
Speaker
your, your tooth, your two top two sounds that you killed coyotes to this past weekend.
00:32:37
Speaker
What do you think that chart would look like if you put that all out there for everybody? For me, it be it would be Jackrabbit and Puppet Distress. But I'm talking about like specific, like like people would say, oh I called them all in on Lightning Jack.
00:32:49
Speaker
You know what I'm saying? Not to categorize them, but if you took an individual sound like – name the actual individual sound like I used TNT or I used Cottonball or I used Lightning Jack on a Fox Pro or I used this sound on this call – it wouldn't look like anything different, right? Like you would see just as many lightning jacks worked as TNT Cottontail, right? You would see just as many of Schoolyard Brawl or Pup Chaos versus some of the other call manufacturers, Pup Distress sound. So what's that tell you? It's not the specific sound, right? It's not, I get it up all the time, what sound's working right now?
00:33:29
Speaker
pup distress or prey distress, right? No, guys want to know the exact sound. Like they want me to tell them play TNT Cottontail. It's not TNT. I like playing TNT because I think it's the loudest. But those same coyotes that came running into TNT would have probably come running into every single rabbit, lucky pecker, whatever it was, right? They would come running into those. The same coyotes that came running into schoolyard brawl or a sick kicking ass or sick kicking ass three or one of those pup distress slash coyote fights, they probably would have come running into pretty much anything you'd have played at that time. So yeah, don't get wrapped up on the actual in individual sound, use those categories and, and play a variety of them when you're on stand.
00:34:03
Speaker
Well, how do you, how do you use
Adapting to Coyote Seasonal Behavior
00:34:05
Speaker
those categories? Like tactically going in there? ah You started talking about aggression. Yeah. So how do you use those categories? so Generally speaking, especially early in the fall through a maybe midwinter, you know, you got to we're going back to understanding coyotes, right? So in the early fall,
00:34:23
Speaker
you know, roughly August, September timeframe, your coyote pups now are so are big enough that they're starting to disperse out, okay? So now we get this huge increase in callable coyotes, okay? And we only get this one time a year. I think a lot of people don't understand coyotes and they think there's just this unlimited amount of coyotes out there that are just gonna come whenever, right? and We can kill as many, no, ah they'll replenish themselves come the spring, but, you know, we only get so many to start the fall and winter off, right?
00:34:51
Speaker
um and and it's in the fall. And a huge percentage of those coyotes are these pup coyotes, all right? So like we've already mentioned, some of these pup coyotes do come running into some of these pup distresses, but some of them don't. Every coyote's different, right? I mean, I think a lot of guys think that coyotes are all built exactly the same, but they're just like domestic dogs, right? You take a litter of of black lab puppies, right?
00:35:11
Speaker
There's going to be the pick of the litter. It's going to be probably the big burly male, you know, and he's probably the most aggressive. There's going to be the run of the litter. They all have their own, you know, aggression, um their own personalities. Coyotes are no different than that, right? Some are just naturally mean. Some are just naturally not mean and scared, right?
00:35:27
Speaker
So I always picture this as like, we hope there's a coyote out there, but we don't know what coyote that is out there. Is it is it this kind of this wussy little coyote that we might have to coax in a little bit or is it going this this mean ass guy that's going to come bombing into probably whatever we play? We don't really know. Right. So the mean coyote that's going to come running in, he's going to come probably running into anything. But I want to try to kill that wussy little coyote, too. So starting out kind of less aggressive and then finishing the stand more aggressive is kind of the general pattern that I'll work through.
00:35:56
Speaker
You know, and um and then once I get late in the season, you know, January, February, well, lot of cats been killed off. Right. um But the coyotes are kind of switching gears a little bit. They're starting to you know get ready to breed. The coyotes are pairing up.
00:36:10
Speaker
You know, hormone levels are up in some of the coyotes. I think some of the coyotes that maybe might have been a little wussy might now be a little more aggressive potentially. So. so that time of year, I'm like really targeting those specific coyotes. So I'll get aggressive right from the get go, you know, and it's about, there's, we know there's less coyotes in February than there were back in October. Right.
00:36:30
Speaker
So it ends up being a numbers game. I need to cover, if I want
Time Efficiency in Hunting
00:36:33
Speaker
to kill more coyotes in February, I got cover more ground usually, you know, versus early in the fall. just because What do you mean by aggressive? Are you saying like you'll go straight to a pup in distress versus a predator? Yep.
00:36:45
Speaker
I'll, I'll, I'll scrap prey distress altogether. Really? You go straight to... pray So that's good for me to hear because like I've always been like... i don't really mess with Hamlet, but I've always typically... like Let me get my typical stand. My typical stand is probably going to run somewhere around 12 to 15 minutes. Okay. And the first...
00:37:02
Speaker
you know I'll probably go like a cottontail or jackrabbit for the first 10 and then I'll switch over I'll end the last five with prepping stress. and I typically find that if there's a coyote in the area, they're probably coming in the first six to eight minutes.
00:37:13
Speaker
um But you're saying like those early months, I should be going straight to pumping and stress all the way through and getting those. later, later months. Later, later. I was going to say the later months. Like right now, we're going to that time right now. Yeah, probably after, you know, once you get to probably mid-January, all the way through, till you know, I only hunt coyotes till about the first March, and the I usually cashed in, you know. But, yeah, that later part, yeah. I mean, like, and but you're right. A lot of guys get it in their mind, like,
00:37:37
Speaker
it's not a coyote stand unless I play some sort of rabbit, right? It's like, it's just like, yeah they feel like they have to, right? No, get right into it, you know, because you're targeting those specific coyotes that are wanting other coyote interactions that time of year. So I'll get right into, start right after, you know, pup distress, whatever, number one, and then roll into pup distress number two, then a coyote fight number one, coyote fight number two, coyote fight number three. How long?
00:38:00
Speaker
so and So, yeah, I mean, I kind of chuckled when you said you let rabbit play for 10 minutes, you know. In my opinion, you wasted about six minutes of that stand, and it's all about it's all about efficiency, right? You know, for me, if I have four hours to hunt or 10 hours to hunt, I want to kill as many coyotes as I possibly can. know Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've had multiple – I mean, I say this.
00:38:21
Speaker
In the coyote world, having a 10-coyote day, and this doesn't count the nighttime. I know Mike's over there smiling. He's been out thermal hunting lately. But I'm saying I've always, I kind of made this shit up a long time ago, but I always felt like if you can kill 10 coyotes in a daytime hunt, that puts you in the 1% club. Meaning you're 1% of anybody that's ever hunted coyotes has ever killed 10 or more coyotes in one day of hunting, not counting the thermal. That's my new goal.
00:38:43
Speaker
I've only done three. Three is my best day. So that, that is the cutoff. So that's happened a lot. I've had my most, I've had a couple of 19 coyote days. I've had a lot of 18 coyote 15 coyote days. It's all about time management, right?
Sound Switching Techniques
00:38:55
Speaker
yeah You can't kill 19 coyotes in a day if you're only making 10 stands and covering this amount of ground. I need to cover this amount of ground to kill that many coyotes, right? So what how can I be efficient with my time on stand? Not only with the sounds I play, with the volume that I'm throwing out um and how I'm transitioning from sound to sound. And then obviously, you know, a lot of guys will get...
00:39:16
Speaker
You know, talk about from stand to stand, like how am i you know, am I jogging back to the truck? And I mean, there's crazy stuff like that. Maybe contest stuff related, you know, when you're even more of a time crunch because you got to get this many coyotes killed to try to win the tournament, you know, but but yeah. So what I look at this.
00:39:33
Speaker
is like coyotes could run 43 miles an hour. Right. i mean i don't know if you knew that or not. That's top end speed. I just know that when, normally when they come in, it's in that first, like six minutes. And that's why I always feel like I'm sitting there. Like, why am I even here? That's yeah why when you said to go puffing and stress, I'm like, Oh, that would solve me a lot. Take a lot of time off my plate, but keep going. Sorry. So, yeah, I mean, here, here's the thing that'll change your life.
00:39:52
Speaker
All right. As a coyote hunter. Um, Coyotes can run up to 43 miles an hour, right? They don't come. I mean, when you're saying that they're coming to pup stress and you they're really, when you see a kinder're like, oh my God, they're bombing in, right? They're probably running like 30 mile an hour, maybe 25 to 30, right? So i always say this for sake of of an argument on average, we're going to say a coyote approaches the call at 10 miles an hour.
00:40:15
Speaker
That's a slow trot coming. I think most guys would agree that, yeah, I think that's a fair average to assume that coyotes on average are coming at 10 mile an hour trot, right? If a coyote's trotting at 10 miles an hour, how long does it take to cover a mile?
00:40:27
Speaker
One hour. i mean I mean, sorry, six minutes. Six minutes, right? Yeah. i can tell you this. Most coyotes are not coming from a mile. They're coming from a half mile away. So how long has it taken to come for a half mile? Three minutes. Three minutes. Three minutes. That's why I'm getting him in the first three to six minutes. that's why but That's why if I play a sound that that coyote likes, within three minutes, the coyote's already there. It's already coming. Now there's little variations. If you think the coyotes are coming from a long, long ways and it's open and and they're taking their sweet time, will i extend that a little bit? No. But everything when I'm talking about switching sounds up and everything I do on stand, it sits it revolves around that three minute mark.
00:41:02
Speaker
And so that means if I'm playing a sound it to me, if I play a sound longer than three minutes, that's a wasted minute or two minutes or three minutes. A sound. So you're saying you're switching up what how many sounds per stand then? Three sounds? well fs nine So so if i want to if I want to take a 12, like you said, I can still do a 12 minute stand and say, okay, how much can I accomplish in a 12 minute stand? Well, I can divide that by three and I can play four different sounds within 12 minutes.
00:41:26
Speaker
And I might not even keep in three. A lot of times I go even less than that I'll play sounds a minute and a half to two and a half minutes. So now in a 12 minute stand, I can throw out six different sounds because here's here's what you have to consider too is,
00:41:38
Speaker
Some coyotes are a little bit different and and you've hunted enough, Drew. Have you ever seen a coyote sitting out there at four or 500 yards and you're playing a sound and it's just sitting there and you're like, okay. And then you start switching up sounds. You switch to a different sound
Evolving Calling Practices
00:41:50
Speaker
yeah and he looks he looks around and you're like, oh, nope, that didn't work. And then you switch to sound number three or four or five and then pretty soon, guess what? He's coming. Here he comes, right?
00:41:58
Speaker
Yep. I picture that happening out there all the time. We just don't see it. 100%. So the more sounds I can throw out, In that timeframe, I just feel like your success, your opportunity is just going to go up. I don't want to do it so quick. Are you going to dead spaces though? are you just going straight? I'm sorry. I'm taking over, Mike. I'm getting so excited. I'm sorry. I don't do a lot of dead space. I always simply go sound to sound. I'm not like giving it a minute of dead space. The only time I really cut the balls is if I can't shut the dog down. you're going –
00:42:28
Speaker
It's a wasted minute if you stop the call. Don't stop the call. Call, call, call. Right into it. and right but here's what here's you know in the Here's what I talk about a lot too. is is The coyote world is based off of there's not a lot of information out there. There still really isn't a lot of information out there. There's a few guys like myself that that are really trying to teach coyote hunting. But even on the internet, when you watch YouTube videos, there's not a lot of instruction that goes on, to be honest with you. um So how do guys learn? Exactly how Mike learned.
00:42:59
Speaker
How'd Mike learn? He had a buddy that was to Mike, an expert. Right? I mean, your buddy has been hunting forever. And just because somebody says they hunted coyotes for 30 years, did he hunt coyotes twice a year for 30 years?
00:43:11
Speaker
Does that make you, I mean, yeah, you've been hunting for 30, but you've been doing it twice a year, right? Is that the same experience that a guy that's been hunting for 100 days a winter for five years? That guy has way more experience hunting coyotes than the guy that's been doing it for 30, right? So i don't I don't go off that. But a guy like Mike goes out with his buddy, and Mike's kind of new to it, and Mike's paying attention, and he's learning. Yeah.
00:43:31
Speaker
And he goes out. They have some success. Now Mike, the very next time goes out on his own, how exactly is Mike going to call Coyotes? Just like his buddy. Exactly. Just exactly like his buddy for no other reason than that's how his buddy did it. And how'd that buddy learn?
00:43:46
Speaker
He might've learned from somebody else that killed 30, 40 coyotes a winter. And at that point, that guy was the expert to that guy. And before you know it, you have this huge chain of people that are doing it for no other reason than because that guy did it that way. And that guy did it that way. And they've never really put the thought into it.
00:44:02
Speaker
What are, what we doing? Does it even make sense? You know, and the pauses between sounds are one of those things, right? So why do guys do that? There are a lot of guys that do that. Why?
00:44:14
Speaker
I always like to look like deep, deep into why do some guys think some of these theories and some of these practices are the best way. And when it comes to pausing the call, it all goes back to the the originating way to do do it, right? You're blowing a hand call.
00:44:29
Speaker
What'd you do with a hand call? You had to take a breath. You had to pause, right? But why? Why did we pause? Yeah. Because you had to breathe, you had to catch your breath and then you could blow again. You couldn't blow a hand call for 10 minutes straight. You have to stop, you have to take a breath. So when those very first guys that had been killing coyotes with hand calls bought their first e-call, how do you think they ran an e-call?
00:44:48
Speaker
Like were calling. Exactly like they ran in a hand call for no other reason than that's how they've always done it. Not thinking that, well, let's just get sound. Coyotes are very scatterbrained. Coyotes are like lose interest very fast. And you hit the nail on the head, Drew.
00:45:02
Speaker
You said the only time I stopped the call is to do what? To get the coyote to do what? To stop, to check out. stop to shoot it, right? Sometimes gotta check them up. I'm trying to always pause the call and coming in hard. That is my number one way to get a coyote to stop, to get the shot, is to kill the call. So if
Unpredictability and Preparation
00:45:17
Speaker
I'm killing the call every two minutes...
00:45:19
Speaker
you're stopping the dog. What do you think's happening out there? The coyote? Jeff, I got to go. Me and you have this. I have to go hunting with you. We have so much energy. Like we're going to have the, I have to go hunt coyotes with you. We're going to much fun together. Dude. So like I got so many, dude, so good. So Jeff, here's another one. Right. So like I had like a good run in October. Like I'm on this thing right now We've, we're killing a lot of stuff. Like I, I kill a lot of animals. Right. I think I killed like between me and my boys, like eight deer this year. I'd like to try and I, I believe that as a big game hunter, it is your job to go hunt deer or hunt coyotes or predators.
00:45:49
Speaker
Like, and it's like, I go out and i try and kill coyotes. Right. So i think I killed like six women in October. um and I was just on a roll, man. i was just going out with calling and dogs every time i was going out. And then like I was in Arizona, we were hunting deer.
00:46:02
Speaker
And dude, like I had some of the best looking stands of my life in Arizona. And I'm, we're here in Coyotes at nine stuff. I could not call. And it's one of those things where you, for two days, I couldn't call dog in for life for me.
00:46:12
Speaker
And I'm like, this is like, you're looking at these stands. You're like, we're going to call dog in here. I'm doing everything right. And sometimes they just don't come in. Like, well, What's up with, like is it just like, is it's not just me. Right. I mean, like sometimes there's like a day you go out and it's like every single stand, dude, dogs are just like, is there something in the air? Is something like sometimes it's come in every stand and sometimes like, they just don't come in and you know, you're, you know, they're hearing it.
00:46:33
Speaker
You know, like, you know, there's dogs you're hearing this, why they're not coming in over pressure. I mean, what's going on? Yeah, I think it's it's something we'll never understand. This will be debated between coyote hunters forever. I mean, you'll hear guys say, oh, it was the moon phase. It was the barometric pressure.
00:46:47
Speaker
um It could be – don't know. It's stuff we will never know. I can tell you that, right? Like there are just some days where you go and for whatever reason, the coyotes – I talk – in all my class stuff, I talk about each coyote has an imaginary bubble around them. Okay. And the bigger the bubble means the farther they're willing to travel to the call.
00:47:07
Speaker
You know, some, some days the bubbles on those coyotes are big. Meaning if they're hearing it, they're running to the call. I mean, it doesn't matter how far it is. And there's other days you, they're just, I don't know if just the coyotes are lazy. Um, whatever it is, their bubbles are contracted. The only way you're killing those coyotes is if you set up right on top of them with a couple hundred yards, 300 They just do not want to move. And there's, ah you know, it could be all those environmental factors. We'll never know. Right. So.
00:47:37
Speaker
I tell people this, I mean, as a coyote hunter, you can only control what you can control, right? I can't control what the coyote's gonna do. I mean, i you can't, unfortunately. I can i control where where I'm setting up, how quick I'm moving from space to space, how how well of a plan I have set up as far as where my next stand's gonna be and then where my next stand's gonna be. can control how long I'm sitting there, what different sounds I'm playing, what kind of volume I'm throwing out there.
00:48:03
Speaker
i can control all that. But sometimes just doesn't work. they just The coyotes, A, might not be there. that youve you know i think you need a lot of coyotes. I think a lot of people think every coyote is callable. I don't think every coyote is callable. I think right from the get-go, there's coyotes that just – For whatever reason, just it just doesn't work for them for whatever reason. you know And the reason I say that is I've hunted ranches over the years that, you know, you hear the term virgin coyotes, right? I mean, if you've hunted coyotes enough, you say, I got on a place. Oh, yeah. nobody nobody's ever Go to Mexico. Go to Mexico sometime. Yeah, we're headed there next month, so I'm hoping that's the case. but
00:48:39
Speaker
You know, you know, you go someplace where it's virgin coyotes and I've hunted multiple of these places and one stand you get a coyote come bombing in and you're like, yep, this is exactly what we expected. Go down to the next stand. Maybe don't see nothing. The next stand coyote come bombing in. Yep. All right. We're on them now. Next stand a coyote sits out there at 500 yards and just looks at you.
00:48:55
Speaker
You play all the sounds in the world at it, turns around and just walks off. It's two miles from where these two other coyotes came bombing in. The whole ranch is locked down. Like nobody's hunting it. Like, why didn't that coyote come running in? healthy thing with dogs. Some coyotes want it, some don't. And you don't ever know. i mean, and from day to day, from property to property, from month to month, I think things change. And so, yeah, I think you just, at the end of the day, you just got to hunt.
00:49:20
Speaker
Yeah. I
Ammunition Choices and Performance
00:49:21
Speaker
got a, I have ammo questions stuff too. sure people want to gun stuff. I want to talk about little bit about setup. like what I've, what, what my setup is for using, for hunting coyotes right now. I'm in California now. I'm moving to Arizona this month. I'm going to get the good stuff then. I'm switching. Yeah. I've been hunting with, I've been having to use copper and I'm telling you right now, like I, I'm a big Barnes guy. I hate Barnes ammo and copper ammo for coyotes. Like my two 43. Yeah.
00:49:47
Speaker
I just go right through them It goes right through the coyote, does not kill the coyote, and it ends up having to, you know how many coyotes I have to go up and freaking shoot in the head with a freaking 9 mil or 22 because, like, i thought that if you guys are hunting coyotes, carry a sidearm because it just it makes it easy. Well, your country, it's tough, too, because there's brush and washes, and coyotes can, if a coyote runs 50 yards, hell, you might lose the damn thing. yeahve I lost one last but couple months ago. But anyways, um I'm excited to go to use, like, start using the VMAX again, or i don't know if you're using, like, I have also some, like, not nozzler, like, a exploding bolts as well. what What are you doing for a bullet?
00:50:18
Speaker
um And also, are you always running a shotgun as well? I love how I'll be having a shot guy on a shotgun and a guy on a a rifle. Yeah, so first question, the bullets. um Yeah, I'm a huge guy. I mean, I love killing. To me, we talked about all this calling stuff, right? And it's one big piece. You got to get the coyotes in. But the whole killing side of things is this whole separate piece of the pie, right? Like it some guys are are decent with calling, but the killing part they struggle at, you know? Some guys are really good at the killing part, and real proficient with their guns, but they don't really know the – you know, the calling side of it. So it's being able to put both together. That's how you get piles of coyotes in front of the camera, you know, is getting good at both, you know? So I've always been kind of intrigued with bullets and terminal ballistics um and where you're hitting coyotes and where's the best place to shoot.
00:51:03
Speaker
I mean, i've seen thousands and thousands coyotes get shot and, you know, and just, you know And I've shot lots. you know Like I said, I started shooting the 223 AR-15 in 2004, exclusive, 223 AR-15 for two decades.
00:51:16
Speaker
And I shot the 50 grain V-Maxes. And early on, I was buying the cheap bulk crap. You could get 50 of them and hollow points and soft points. and
Rifle Technology Enhancements
00:51:24
Speaker
And then I started seeing the advantage on Coyotes with the ballistic tip, just with the rapid expansion and fragmentation.
00:51:31
Speaker
And then Hornady comes out with a 53 grain VMAX, which was specifically built to shoot out of the.223, where the.50 grain and the.55s are more of a flatback bullet designed to shoot out of the.22-250.
00:51:43
Speaker
So I started to see way crazier terminal ballistics with a 53 grain VMAX in coyotes versus or.55. So I shot that that for many years. And then throughout that time, you start to see some of these Wildcat cartridges come out and things like that. And don't get me wrong, I was never a huge fan of the ballistics of a.223. mean...
00:52:05
Speaker
you know, 200 yards if you're hitting coyotes in the sweet spot, they were dying. But, you know, every now and then coyotes check up and you get farther shooting, you know, and you need to be stable and you need to have bullets that you can put on target at three, four, 500 yards. And the 223 is just not built for that. You know, the wind drifts crazy. The energy drops off so much. So I wasn't ever a huge fan of that, but I wanted the AR-15 because I kill lots of running coyotes, um multiple coyotes. ah You know, that's just what I do. So then all of a sudden the 22 arc comes out.
00:52:34
Speaker
and started doing some research with that got the horny guys on a podcast we they ran me through why that you know is better you know what what makes that different than like a 22 nozzle a 224 valkyrie or some of these other rounds that were on the air like your arc is this is a six millimeter bullet correct No, well, they do make a 6 arc, but they have a 22 arc well, so it's a.22 caliber bullet. Oh, okay, okay. When they started showing me this, i was like I was like, wow, this really makes sense to me because here's what you get.
00:53:05
Speaker
I still get to shoot the AR-15 platform. And for me, shooting running coyotes is – I've shot so many running coyotes, it's like ingrained. It's like I'm not – I don't know, thinking about what my lead needs to be. It's just it's just there, right? it's just That's what my eye and my brain connects in a split millisecond and he gets the lead, right? And that's because I've shot the same gun for so many years, right? Guys that bounce back and forth between a.22 to.50 and a.223 and you're shooting different triggers and different velocities and stuff like that. It's hard to get really good at shooting coyotes.
00:53:36
Speaker
Big part of that is pick one coyote gun and get really good at it. And that's what I ended up doing. So I didn't want to drop. I didn't want to go from a gun. My 223 was shooting like 3050 out of the muzzle. I didn't want to jump up to a gun that was shooting 3400 or 3500 feet per second or something that dropped down to 2800 feet per second because all my leads would just my mind would be blown because.
00:53:57
Speaker
all the leads that haven't been ingrained in my mind would not be the same. So I wanted something that was very similar. And that's what I got first off with the 22 arc was actually pretty close to the same speed, but just gained a little speed. So that 22 arc out of a 18 inch barrel is shooting 3150. So I gained a hundred feet per second, but that's close enough where my running leads are not messed up.
00:54:16
Speaker
This huge, the second piece, which was the huge part is the the energy down range. That six it's, and I'm shooting the 62 grain VT. um And it's the technology behind this bullet is unreal.
00:54:29
Speaker
um And, the downrange performance is just it's equivalent to a 2250 it actually surpasses a 2250 i think somewhere around the 400 yard range as far as velocity and energy so it blows a 223 out of the water um so now when i'm hitting coyotes out there at 350 450 or 500 yards it's smoking um i mean because it's retaining energy and the design of this bullet what What you get to with some of those 223 bullets, when they start to lose velocity, the bullet doesn't have enough velocity to open up and expand like it's supposed to.
00:55:06
Speaker
So it ends up punching through coyotes like a soft point. Small wound channels, you know, coyotes are all about bleeding out. If you can create a massive wound channel inside the coyote, coyote will bleed out, whether you shoot them through the hips, shoot them through the shoulder.
00:55:18
Speaker
If you create a massive wound channel, coyotes will bleed out within 20, 30 seconds. But if you're punching a big bullet right through a coyote, it's a very small wound channel. They're not bleeding out fast. They're going to run a lot farther before they eventually die. So you want to create massive. So I tell people this, you want a bullet that does not exit a coyote.
00:55:34
Speaker
Obviously you haven't had that opportunity because you've been shooting those. I'm shooting. I've been shooting my two idiotically at them lately. And I'm still the same issue where I'm having to go and shoot these things the head. Cause like, I don't want to be like, want to be completely honest. Like California made the law, but there's a lot of coyotes suffering that I'm killing and they should be dead for shot. And I'm going up there shoot them because like, it's just not,
00:55:52
Speaker
It's just going right through. It's going right it's not even expanding. It's just going through like a, like a, and like a, like a full male jacket. It's not getting any expansion whatsoever. Punching right through this thin skin dog. I'm getting no expansion. I'm to go up there bring a pop thing in the head.
00:56:03
Speaker
Yep. So yeah. I mean, you, if you're listening to this and you want to look, just go, just start. YouTube and ballistic gel tests, right? I mean, you look at a ballistic gel test versus like a 280, the bullet's probably going to go in, I don't know if I had a wild guess, maybe five or six inches, and then you're going to start to see the the balloon cavity, you know, right?
00:56:20
Speaker
You take one of these bullets, like a 62 ELDVT bullet, when they shoot gel, it's going to go in about an inch, and then it's going to be this massive cavity, but by six inches into the gel, guess what? It's done. It's And that's exactly what you want with coyotes and bobcats and fox and stuff like that. Because if you've ever picked up a coyote or skinned a coyote and looked at what an actual coyote looks like, minus its fur, I mean, it's it's a chest cavity that's about nine or 10 inches from bottom of its chest to the top of its back. yeah And it's about five or six inches wide is all it is, right? So you want something that's going to just expand every ounce of energy into that small space and be done. And that coyote's not going anywhere.
00:56:57
Speaker
So, yeah, the 62, I've seen some crazy stuff with this ELDVT bullet, man. i mean I mean, I've seen coyotes, and know and I shoot coyotes right square in the shoulder, right? i want to I'm all about devastating the bone structure. I want to break the shoulder, break the front leg, usually it fragments up into the spine. The shock of the bullet usually knocks them out. By the time, you know,
00:57:16
Speaker
They come to their blood out dead. They don't move. Right. um But I was hitting coyotes dead center in the point of the shoulder. And that bullet, I had fragments coming out the ear hole of the coyote, the backside of the neck, straight out the top of the back.
00:57:31
Speaker
I mean, that bullet was fragmenting in 90 degree angles. Just so I mean, just destroying coyotes. um It's just a phenomenal bullet, you know. So once again, just me taking advantage of new technology.
00:57:45
Speaker
kind want to check that out've I got a bunch of VMAXs loaded up. probably have few hundred rounds of shoot through. so I'm sure they'll work fine. Yeah, I was, we just bought, loaded up on a bunch of VMAX, but we got the 55 grand. We got some soft point too. have VMAX. It makes a difference, man. I'm also, I'm also with you just, even though I'm not as experienced, my squirrel brain, like I'm working on, I'm working with Novesque right now on a six arc.
00:58:11
Speaker
for for coyote hunting because i i i'm an army guy i'm used to the ar platform and be and i have very rarely been on a stand where at least ah a dog or two doesn't run i've just seen enough coyotes run and watched enough predator hunting even on youtube where dogs run and not having to run a bolt and just being able to track and shoot, I think it's a big deal.
00:58:32
Speaker
so Well, thermal hunting, and here's another side of it, you know, the popularity of thermal hunting is exploding, right? So guys are going out and shooting coyotes with thermal and they're like, oh, these coyotes are running off. Well, your shooting is not as precise with the thermal, you know, it's because of the power of the scopes, right? I mean, you're shooting a coyote at a hundred yards on a three power scope in the daytime, most guys are running that up to six or eight or 10 or more, right? So you're in the daytime, you're picking out at least I hope you are, picking out a ah little coloration of discoloration of fur or something specific on that coyote. And now you're just shooting at the coyote, right? So guys aren't hitting coyotes where they're really wanting to and the coyotes are running off. And if you start the equation with a crappy bullet or a crappy round to start with, yeah, you're not going to find coyotes. They're all going to run off, you know? So...
00:59:16
Speaker
um Yeah, bigger, the I always tell people, bigger isn't always better. You just want to find something to where the bullet is not exiting the coyote, where wherever you hit them, you know?
00:59:28
Speaker
and And that's going to create the most, you know, catastrophic wound channel that you can. The coyotes will bleed out quick. What about shotguns? You run a lot of shotguns? Yeah. um You know, just generally where we grew you know, up out here western Nebraska,
00:59:42
Speaker
It's not – always say this when we're filming. you know There's killing coyotes with a shotgun out of necessity and there's killing coyotes with a shotgun just for the fun of it, like making it just a little bit more of a challenge, right? like getting So usually when we're filming, it's usually just for the fun of it because – When you get in areas where it's out of necessity, that's not great filming. Because when when it's out of necessity, the coyotes are on you. They're already killable with the shotgun when you see them, right? yeah Because it's so thick. Obviously, those aren't great places to film because you know nobody's going to see the coyotes out there. Just bam, and the coyote's dead, right? The camera can't get on it, stuff like that. so
01:00:14
Speaker
But when I, the times I've been down in Arizona, um we won the worlds down in Arizona back in, in 2015. And it was juniper kind of country and thick junipers where the coyotes were kind of buzzing in left and right. And they'd come from wherever. It's just big flat juniper areas.
01:00:29
Speaker
um Shotguns was the way to go because the coyotes, if they were flying in, you weren't getting them to stop and you had very small windows. And yeah, it's way easier to hit a running coyote at 30 yards for most guys with a shotgun than is a scoped rifle. Have you done it, Mike?
01:00:42
Speaker
Shotgun to coyote? No, I watched. It's so fun. They're running. Dude, they're running. Boom, um things rolling. Shotguns are fun. We carry a shotgun just in case we have the opportunity. But I watched Rick do it in the most recent episode. Yeah, he just packs the 10-gauge around just like his old school 10-gauge. So, yeah, like when we're filming, we'll be like, okay, yeah, there's five of us on stand. So, you know what? We don't.
01:01:05
Speaker
we got plenty of rifles. So hell, let's just tuck somebody down there by the call and I'll run the call way out and he'll go lay down and hide behind the yucker and a little dip or something. you know, we'll try to get one with you guys run that many guys on stand. Huh?
01:01:17
Speaker
Yeah, you know, this last, so the the episodes of the last stand that just came out were in eastern Colorado. There were seven of us on stand. And this is, Mike knows, is big wide open country. And anybody that's out there is like, how in the hell did you guys call coyote? We had a 13 coyote day, a 10 coyote day, and a seven coyote day with seven of us on stand. You know, it's five of us hunting and the two camera guys. So you're kind of, you're covering more than the 180 then. Potentially. Sometimes we are, you know, a lot of times we'll take, we always have two cameras. Every time we, this has been from day one of the last stand. I said, you know what, we're going to do this right. We're not going to, we're not going to do the reenactment bull crap and flipping the safeties off and all that crap. Like if it's making it, it's real time. Right. And I want to hunt exactly like I hunt normally. And a lot of times, yeah, we do have a downwind guy or a guy that's maybe around the side hill or something that can see that maybe that downwind, there's that one 30 degree piece of the pie. That's a hundred percent. I can't see it here, but we can see everything else. So that one guy will go down. So we'll send a camera with him and he'll go cover that one little piece. And the rest of us can shoot this bigger chunk of the pie.
01:02:15
Speaker
yep And, you know, we're kind of pointing different directions and kind of pick out who gets coyotes when they show up and stuff like that. But yeah, a lot of it is using that e-call and getting it away from you. Right. The coyotes, I feel when they're coming into the call, they have like maybe a.
01:02:28
Speaker
I don't know, a 40-yard wide swath of vision that is holding their attention. And if you're in that, they're probably going to see you. Unless you just have some crazy terrain where you have juniper trees and brush and rocks where you can hide really good. But out in eastern Colorado, like I said, there's an occasional yucca.
01:02:45
Speaker
I mean, a big dude sitting next to a yucca ain't really hiding great, you know, especially when the sun's behind you and you're just a big shadow sitting out there and stuff like that. So, So yeah, the biggest thing is to get the e-call. So we'll run that e-call out away from us, you know, 60, 80, a hundred yards sometimes. i And then the coyote comes running in and, and they kind of look on that. They don't even ever look up at you, you know, which is pretty awesome.
01:03:05
Speaker
I mean, like I've never really been a big, and I mean, used to get crazy and like, we're like leafy flage. Now I don't really care. I don't even cover my face up anymore. I just, as long as, but I, my biggest thing is having some, a backdrop behind me and just sitting still.
01:03:18
Speaker
That's and the big, and I don't, I don't even run a face mask or anything anymore. I used to be like hardcore. Now I'm just like, no, I can wear freaking blue jeans and have these things as long as I have the wind. a little bit of elevation and ah like a bush behind me, a rock behind or something that's going to break me up from that. and I'm not moving too much. I feel like as long as the call's out enough for me, they're going be keen on the call and not so much on me as long as I'm not, you know, i'm making a scene out of it. Yeah.
01:03:39
Speaker
Yeah. See, Mike, he's sporting the dying tired hoodie. I wear the same one. i I wear the black one, but I wear like the green one or the tan one and I'll just sit out there. I wear tan pants. I mean, I don't wear, I don't wear it. but the only thing that's camouflaged is my,
01:03:51
Speaker
my generic camo MLB hat, you know, that's it, you know? So yeah, I mean, it's just, it's one of those things. Movement is always the biggest thing I think, you know, but you know, for a lot of guys, the, the, the camo clothing is made for those kinds of conditions. So that's probably what you have. So that's, you're wearing me. I,
01:04:07
Speaker
I'm just like, you know, i I love killing coyotes in a hoodie, to be honest with you. I'm not out there about freezing my ass off. I mean, is fun when you get snow and you get cold and the coyotes are working, but I'd rather be killing coyotes when it's 50, 60 degrees, man. And they're bombing in because we're just out there doing it hoodie, you know? So yeah, I don't worry about the camo
Bipods vs. Tripods
01:04:23
Speaker
so much. there the The setup, the hide and and ah the movement is way more important.
01:04:28
Speaker
Man, um I can't get over, and I know I'm the designer, right? how good this RP is for shooting dogs. Cause I can just, I used to like, i used to do a lot tripod stuff on dogs. And now with this RP, I run that thing. I typically, I'm sitting on my butt on a butt pad.
01:04:45
Speaker
Um, and I run that thing almost sometimes not fully, almost fully extended a little bit less. And I can just move around and get those 90 degrees to my right shots. Now getting my left shots where a tripod, I feel like it kind of,
01:04:57
Speaker
Locked me into like a, I don't even know, like a shooting lane, you know, with that RP man, I'm able to swing that sucker around with ah the panning, do all that stuff. what How are you like, are you more an RP guy now are you more a tripod guy? What do you, what do you. a hundred percent RP. I've always been a bipod guy. Um, for that exact reason you said, i mean, when you're, when you're shooting coyotes, there's.
01:05:18
Speaker
in certain parts of the country, like when we go to eastern eastern Kansas with Rick and it's it's ag, broken ground, and there's these small little crick bottoms and little pieces, of pockets of cover, it's like pretty much you set up and you point right there because if the coyote's in there, they're coming out of that little group of trees. or So it's like you don't have to move, right? Every now and then something might crazy happen. But out in the west, um I mean, coyotes could come from left shoulder, right shoulder, any, you know, we talked about that 180, right? They could come from anywhere in there. So you have to be able to maneuver your gun and get on target quickly because that's the huge difference. If you're just starting to hunt coyotes and you've hunted big game, to me, that's the big difference in shooting is how quickly you have to get on target and make a quality shot.
01:06:03
Speaker
A deer is going to stand out there, let's face it, for ah probably as long as you want. And you're going to have time to get just perfect and, you know, get her all sunk in. Right. You know, and you've already seen the deer. So the adrenaline is starting to wear off just a little bit. You know, you're starting to calm yourself because you have a little bit of time when you're sitting there stand. All of a sudden, you know, the coyote comes blowing in and the adrenaline hits you and you got about five seconds to make the shot.
01:06:26
Speaker
you got to be quick and you got to be comfortable with your gear, especially a bipod system. And that's what I've loved about the RP so far, you know, and I've shot lots of them over the years. And it was always ah it was you're always juggling with a bipod is stability versus mobility, right?
01:06:41
Speaker
And A lot of guys that really are high on stability, they're the guys that are kind of switching over to the tripods. Because let's face it, three legs is steadier than two, right? And especially when you lock it in a tripod. But you lose total mobility, right? If it comes right out down your barrel, yeah, the tripod's going to great for you. But if it shows up hard, you've got to pick up three legs and try to get three legs situated and leveled up real quick, it's going to take you longer. Granted, you might still get the shot.
01:07:05
Speaker
But there are going to be some coyotes that are going to be gone and you're not, you know, two legs is easy. And then, you know, with the, the way you, the way you can manipulate the RP with, with the four settings on the leg angle. Right. So even if I'm sitting on a side hill where my hand, I hold my hand out here on that base where it locks into my rifle. If I have to swing over to the side hill, I can easily just push that button real quick. And my leg instantly kicks out to a wider angle Because you do have flexibility with the ball head, right? That's what's awesome about it too. It's not rigid like the old Harris bipods, right? That was a very popular bipod that a lot of coyote hunters used back in like the, you know, 2000s and things like that. Yeah, yeah twenty that 24-inch or 30-inch, yeah, I've got one of those. Yeah, you know, that was probably the main thing that – but the problem with that was it was stuck right to your gun. It had – I think they had a version that might have a little bit of – A little bit of panning in there. Just a little bit, but it wasn't very much, man. You had to have it almost perfect, right? Yeah.
01:07:58
Speaker
But that's what I love about the RP is that – I don't even – what is that? Kind of a mini ball head or half ball head? What do you exactly call that? Yeah, it's half ball head. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It won't go – it's a half ball head, so it won't go forward and back. You get that on your rocker. You can rocker it. Yep, rock it. Yep.
01:08:11
Speaker
But it gives you the left to right panning. It gives you left to right panning and I can even can't. Like 20 degrees of can't or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. honestly And honestly, with a coyote, like I always say, it's kind of when you learn if someone's a killer or not. Because you don't have to be perfect to shoot a coyote. He's got to kill it. yeah yeah It's coming in. If you're a little bit canted, but you need to be able to pick that sucker, move it to your side. The gun's a little crooked still. You're shooting that coyote.
01:08:32
Speaker
You're just trying to shoot
Confidence in Equipment
01:08:33
Speaker
a coyote. ain't trying to shoot freaking precision rifle at this point. You're just kill that damn thing, put a bolt in him get him down. you know Yeah. I mean, really when it comes to killing coyotes, you're talking about a second, right? I mean, do you, you know, between good coyote killers and not coyote killers, ah a not so good coyote killer is going to rush that. Yeah.
01:08:49
Speaker
and panic a little bit a good coyote killer is going to take one extra second ye to take that one extra breath and just make sure things one second is not going to make or break you um and that's usually the difference but and that's what i tell people the time man you know get something that you're super confident in you know the bipod system that you run obviously you have confidence in your gun on top of that but then work with it right work even i think it's people are naive to say they're just going to put what no matter how good a bipod is if you don't work with it a little bit you know, it's going to be tricky for you sometimes to get on when you have to make those fast adjustments and move and get on those coyotes, you know? So yeah. And that's what, that's what I i mean. I've used it now for, i don't know what, two months. And I feel like I've been shooting it forever, right? It's like just well easy to move. And it's funny you talk about, it's funny you talk about how quickly you can adjust it because that's one of the biggest things I think we get hit on in the Facebook comments specifically in our ads is people are like, there's no way I'll have time to adjust those twist locks and do this and do that. And that granted, Facebook ads, the people ah that make comments on Facebook are the reason I don't shop at Walmart unless it's an emergency. But but that is one of the biggest things I see. And I'm like, you guys are crazy. it's i I am not messing with the twist locks half the time. That's exactly what I'm doing. I'm pressing that button.
01:10:20
Speaker
good luck at adjustin that damn thing you know what i mean it's shooting out' springing on you you' personing itmapping back in on you yeah it's just like a little guy that t twist lock and that twist lock doesn't take long to adjust you it needs to do it you can do an inch so easy and These are people that basic basically what you explained, you have all the time in the world when a deer is in front of you. yeah You know what I mean? and They're the ones that are complaining about the amount of time it takes to set it up. It's it's fast. You've got to work with it. You've got to know your equipment. You've got to work with it So here's here's the other piece of this. You know I shot swaggers for eight years, right? So I'm getting hit up all the time right now. What's the difference? What do you guys like? And, you know, the thing about a swagger was I didn't always like the bulkiness of it, right? And a lot of guys didn't like that. The fact that when you hook that, it was that 142 and it would hook onto your gun. And it i I don't even know what to weighed, but it weighed a lot. And it was bulky on your gun.
01:11:10
Speaker
And for me, it was one of those things. It was like, okay, I kind of got over that. It was like, okay, I liked it, you know. And those legs are set on springs, right? So, yeah, you had crazy mobility, but you didn't always have the stability. And I always felt, talked to myself, you know, I got good at shooting off it. There was times, though, when I was shooting at coyotes at like 300, 400, 500 yards. I was like, damn, I just always wished I had...
01:11:35
Speaker
something that was this mobile, but I was just a little more stable. I mean, a hundred yard shot at a coyote, I mean, it is what it is, right? But it's some of those farther shots, 200 plus, where it's like, you wish you just had a little more stability. And that's really what I've told everybody so far. I felt like, we talked about the give and take. If you want mobility, you probably, you lose a little stability. If you want stability, you're going to lose mobility, kind of your balance in that, right? And I feel like what I've gained in stability with a tricer, I did not lose anything in the mobility side.
01:12:03
Speaker
You know, so it was a step up in what we're doing. And then the best thing I love about it is I just hook it. I just take it right off my gun and I put it right on my dash and yeah my gun rides right beside me. um And it's I don't know, it's way light. i don't even know what that thing weighs, but it's like you don't even know what's on there, man. So I just I the the quick adapt, you know, quick release on there on a Picatinny. I have a Picatinny on my.
01:12:26
Speaker
on my arc i'll just flop right off throw it on my dash takes like literally two seconds as i'm getting out of the truck to slap it back on there um yeah man i couldn't be more stoked i think uh i think you guys knocked it out of the park with this thing Thanks, man. Awesome. That's that's good to hear. it's it's but My favorite part about it is just like how many animals this is responsible for taking this year. You know what I mean? And I love bridging. Like anyone listening to this, you're getting a different side of me because everyone just thinks I'm this big Kuznut, but like I am a dude. I love Predator. So I'm getting so excited. I feel bad. took this thing over on this pod for Mike. Oh, no, no. That RP for me, dude, like,
01:13:01
Speaker
i It is like I am loving it for hunting coyotes, man. i'm Just swinging on them. And I can't wait to get out hunt some more, especially now they're going Arizona. Like even that desert stuff is just so fun, man. Just go out there and just do a bunch of stands.
01:13:13
Speaker
Man, that's pretty much it for me on the pod. Mike, you got more to talk about it? I mean, I can go all day. No, I mean, I think... I want to talk about like how far are you go in between stands. I'm typically around a mile. Yeah, we didn't even talk about volume. We didn't talk about any of that. yeah volume we know we can We can't give it all the wheel yeah you we can We can do more for sure. For sure. ah I mean, really, I've got some more like like philosophical questions for you. Yeah, fire away. What...
01:13:42
Speaker
ah how do you feel has predator hunting grown i think it has grown but and and this war on dogs and war on hogs campaign that we're getting ready to launch in january i'll talk a little bit about it real quick we're giving away about 12 or 13 000 worth of gear sig chipped in an ar thermal uh a weapon mounted thermal and ah a monocular uh and then a suppressor then we're providing all the support products for it um we're gonna have probably jeff run a giveaway we're We're running it for two months. That's the grand prize package. And then we're going to give away custom t-shirts and RP bipods and our HK tripod, lightweight custom t-shirts. war on song yeah i did yes
01:14:26
Speaker
Jeff got a sneak peek. He's going to one once we get them in, but we're going to be doing weekly giveaways. And our goal is to grow the sport of predator hunting, because I feel like there's a lot of people out there. drew drew, drew brainchild that he wanted, he came up with the idea and shout to us. and We're like, Oh yeah, this is going to be good. But well they told me idea was gay.
01:14:45
Speaker
Let's be quietly honest. My idea was, we did. faunathon And the shirt said, I i had a heart, but it was shipped like a tricer. And it said, love baby deer. And they're like, that's gay. but i'll take that's ah mode that they made it did The idea, the idea was there, right? But it was there, but the was these guys.
01:15:04
Speaker
I feel like there's a lot of hunters out there that are exactly like me. Like my favorite thing in the world is calling elk and then maybe calling turkey. Calling turkeys and coyotes are like right there now, now that I've experienced it. And I feel like there's a lot of hunters out there that don't put much thought into it as something they can get out and do in the late season, a way to help manage predator populations. And, and I think there's a lot of hunters that are exactly like me that once they get out and they're on a successful stand, they're like the light bulb goes off because I stuck my nose up at it for the last three or four years. I have ah a really knowledgeable coyote hunter that lives with me and I never went out with him. And I went out with him first stand and I'm like, holy crap, what have I built? What have I, why have i not been doing this? Um, so we want to help grow the sport. So do you think the sport's growing in like, what excites you most about where it's going?
Growth of Predator Hunting and Resources
01:15:56
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's definitely growing. Thermal has has helped that out tremendously. um You know, I think guys, thermal hunting has allowed guys to to hunt more because they can go out on a Wednesday night for four hours and hunt after they put the kids to bed, you know, instead of waiting to tell the wife they're heading out on Saturday and they're gonna be going gone all day Saturday and she's mad because, oh God, you know, you'll leave me with you know, whatever that may be, it looked like right for you. yeah So it's opened up and and face it. I've never met a hunter that didn't want to hunt more.
01:16:25
Speaker
You know, like most hunters are like, man, how can I get out more? You know, maybe they're, they got to work and they got to do all this stuff. They're always trying to hunt more. Right. And if you're just a big game hunter, by the time November's here, you're done for the year. And you're like, dang, that went fast. I'm like, damn, what am I going to do now? And if you, if you're not in a part of the country where, know,
01:16:41
Speaker
you can still fish or ice fish or whatever like that. Like, what do you do? You're sitting around waiting until turkey season, right? So that's where I think a lot of guys have or need to take advantage of the fact that you can just get outside more, you know, by picking up prairie. You know, thermal hunting is a a pretty expensive barrier to entry, right? Obviously you got to spend the money on a thermal, right? I mean, that could be anywhere from a couple thousand to 10, I mean, as much as you want to spend, right? Not everybody has that kind of money sitting around, but the daytime thing,
01:17:07
Speaker
Like I said, for you know under $1,000, you can get the e-call. You can buy the setup you need for shooting coyotes. You can shoot them with any gun in your gun safe. Any gun. You don't eat them. take your deer hunt rifle. You throw an RP on there. Now you have a better setup for deer hunting in general, but now you have a coyote setup as well. You buy a Lucky Duck Predator seat. You go out. You...
01:17:28
Speaker
you give it a shot. You already have properties. You start learning some more properties. And like even Drew hit on bear in the head, you might go for hunt some coyotes on a property that might end up being ah a good deer spot or a turkey spot or something else down the line, you know? So yeah, but here's the challenge I think that that messes with guys is that they They invest some money, they invest a little time, and they don't have the success. I think this happens way more than the guys that do have success. And so that's why, you know, I've been putting on coyote schools for a lot of years and they're in-person coyote schools. But just last year we launched ah the Last Stand Coyote Class, which is an online coyote class. So basically everything that I do in my in-person stuff, we took it, digitized it.
01:18:09
Speaker
put it on an online format. There's over 20 hours of content on there. All the stuff that we talked about, i mean, 60 plus videos and guys can go through the school and they can watch that video and watch it and they can watch it over the course of two weeks, all in two days if they want. And, um,
01:18:24
Speaker
then there's exclusive last stand episodes on there where I'm actually out filming. There's a difference between filming for YouTube and filming for this YouTube. It's kind of trying to find that mix of killing versus instruction. Right. And I can only talk so much before everybody in the comment says, shut the hell up, Jeff. We want to see more coyotes die. Right. But I've always felt like that was my niche of being able to,
01:18:43
Speaker
my decades of experience in passing that on to you to make you a better coyote killer. And so this gave me a platform to do that to where, you know, nice. And we have monthly, which is probably the coolest thing of this. We have monthly live Zoom calls with members can join in live.
01:19:00
Speaker
And it's basically just just bullshitting like this and guys being able to ask me questions and us just having discussions and conversations about coyote hunting. We record those, put those on there. So it's almost like a monthly podcast. And then there's partnership discounts and stuff like that. So it's just a great resource for guys that don't have time because let's face it, most guys do not have the time it takes to get good at coyote hunting.
01:19:19
Speaker
They don't. It's just the bottom. It's just the way it is, man. And I just i just want everybody to to get good at it. So, yeah, I mean, you get the stuff, you you make some time for it and you go do it. I mean, that's the bottom line. I think that's the biggest issue with people running to, right, is...
01:19:37
Speaker
They think they're going to get an e-call, spend a thousand bucks, put the call down, the call, the doctors come in. It takes field time. It takes days in the field to understand it and learn it. And you will get better and you will start seeing success. The more you do it, you'll start understanding it. There's times where I'm like, I won't even call stand. this is going be good stand. You just know. And you have to make those mistakes if get out there and do it and go hunt.
01:19:56
Speaker
But ah Jeff. What an awesome podcast, man. I want to go hunt couch with you so bad. i will. I'm going to win. i love Arizona. You come down, stay with me. I got a house down there. I got the side by side. I got the truck.
01:20:08
Speaker
You know what i do want to do I just got into an e-bikes. So Baku got me an e-bike. Dude, I want to go do like a whole e-bike episode and with like film crew and go and do like, there's some sick stuff in Arizona. You can go e-bike it and dude, you could go you could crush some coyotes with an e-bike over there and some of that set stuff, you some of those units.
01:20:27
Speaker
Yeah. Just our last, our last monthly webinar, we were talking about that with a group of guys that were on about how e-bikes, once again, technology, right? It's something we didn't have a, the advantage of several years ago, but there's so many places out West where it's, it's good coyote country, but there's nowhere to hide a truck.
01:20:43
Speaker
yeah It's flat, right? Like you're driving around. There's no, it's not enough room to hide a side-by-side, but man, on an e-bike, I can just lay that sucker down and start calling yeah mean that simple. And you could, we talk about efficiency and time. I mean, I think e-bikes is, there's already been guys that have been, you know, using them in competitions and things like that. I mean,
01:21:01
Speaker
and taking advantage of the places you can get to that really haven't been touched because everybody else on the pickup has to keep on driving down the road and go. Yeah. Or you got to walk 500 yards. Or you got to walk in and you're wasting all a lot of time, you know, and you're just so much more efficient. So that's all another podcast. i is i up a jeff du where Tell us real quick where one, where they can go to that coyote class.
01:21:27
Speaker
Yeah, that's ah just coyoteclass.com. um Kind of the the parent website to that is tlshunt.com, thelaststandhunt.com. You know, that's where we base everything off from the last stand that Tricer's a partner of. um You guys want to see us whacking coyotes with these new Tricer RPs.
01:21:44
Speaker
um You know, those those Colorado episodes are live right now. They'll be out all month of December. We were just down New Mexico filming last week, so those will be coming out in January. and then obviously, mentioned it we're going down to sonora to film um about the first of february so yeah those episodes will be coming out on the lucky duck youtube channel uh for the rest of the season all the way through probably the first of march so you can check out those there and and yeah if you want to follow me uh instagram's probably the best place to catch me if you want just a coyote killing content i mean that's all i put on there so uh you want to you want that just uh at jeff nibnick on instagram so sweet jeff thank you so much guys it's been a pleasure