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TBC Podcast Ep 4 ''Words VS Actions ; The Core Value Dilemma in Business
119 Plays2 years ago
In the fourth episode of The Better Contractor Podcast, we dive deep into a critical topic that's at the heart of every successful business - the balance between words and actions when it comes to core values. Join host Brent Oberlink as he welcomes esteemed guests who have navigated the intricate landscape of core values in business. Together, we explore how a company's stated values should align with its actual practices. Are your core values just words on a wall or a true reflection of your company's culture and actions? This thought-provoking episode delves into real-life examples, challenges, and solutions surrounding core values in the contracting industry. Discover why walking the talk is essential, and gain valuable insights on how to ensure your business upholds its core values in both words and actions. Don't miss this engaging discussion on "Words vs. Actions: The Core Value Dilemma in Business." Tune in for actionable takeaways that can transform your contracting business for the better.
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Transcript
Introduction with Dan, the Safety Man
00:00:11
Speaker
All right. Welcome back to another episode of the better contractor episode four. Today we're going to talk about creating a culture in your workplace.
Why is employee engagement in safety crucial?
00:00:19
Speaker
We have a new person on the show today. He just, Mr. Dan, the safety man. If you've watched any of our videos online, he's a very familiar face and we've got Travis again.
00:00:29
Speaker
with still no call sign. Still no call sign. I guess it might be inappropriate still. We'll not do those yet. So today we want to talk a little bit about creating a culture in
Closing the gap between safety policies and practice
00:00:42
Speaker
your workplace. So there's a lot of companies where you'll see
00:00:46
Speaker
They just check boxes. So they've got all these great big safety programs or doesn't have to be safety, it can be whatever programs, but they have a whole lot of boxes to check and the employees aren't really bought into any of them though. So it's kind of an issue if you think about, okay, we have these awesome policies, we have all these procedures, but in our industry and the ones that we deal with lawn landscape and tree,
00:01:11
Speaker
Once they go to the field, if they're not doing the stuff because they're not bought into it, it really doesn't matter that you have a program in place.
Dan's journey at Atlanta Corp: A case study
00:01:18
Speaker
So with that said, culture becomes more of the focus that we should have. So Atlanta Corp.
00:01:24
Speaker
Uh, so Dan is safety here at better contractor, but also has a lot of experience Atlanta Corp. So he has done a very, very good job of creating culture at that workplace. So Dan, can you kind of tell us a little bit about just, you know, how you've helped to create that and the buy-in that we've gotten?
Transitioning to safety: Dan’s honest approach
00:01:41
Speaker
Sure. Um, first, thank you and.
00:01:44
Speaker
I'm proud of that. But I came to work at Land and Recorp eight years ago. And I really did not come from a safety background. I've been doing all my training ever since I came to work for Land and Recorp. And I think being real honest with the guys up front the very first day that I got introduced out there,
00:02:02
Speaker
And just telling them my background was construction, but we didn't do stuff safely. And fortunately, OSHA didn't come around in very many residential jobs. But if they had, we'd have probably been shut down because we had cords that weren't right. We had ladder problems.
00:02:17
Speaker
you know, set trusses just walking the walls and did all kind of stuff. There's no doubt about it. And I actually did some jobs for you. And you probably know I ran up and down the steps carrying loads and stuff, but it was crazy. Yeah, but, um, but I also know that, uh, you know, for
00:02:34
Speaker
real buy-in, you got to be humble and kind of telling yourself.
How can humility foster trust in safety culture?
00:02:37
Speaker
So I think that kind of worked. I think kind of not acting like I knew everything, but I wanted to learn from you guys. And then when they kind of was trying to teach me how to do it safe, then that helped with the buy-in because they're trying to protect me, kind of they're trying to show off what they know.
Performance and character vs. credentials in hiring
00:02:52
Speaker
And I think that helped.
00:02:54
Speaker
Yeah, and just so everybody knows, Dan is safe at Lanarkorp, even though he may not have been prior, but... I am safe, but... So we had a lot of the policies, and one of the things I noticed when you were working on our project before we hired you was basically your leadership and your ability to engage and get other people to kind of follow. So we had a lot of the policies in place, you know, but we needed someone like that to help kind of put that into the field and build that culture and that crew.
00:03:23
Speaker
Travis, do you have any ideas or any thoughts just so far? Yes, so just on the piece of having humble beginnings and acquiring talent outside of traditional maybe pathways. And so that's something that's caught on a lot more and it's part of the culture too, ties back into culture, how to attract, acquire and retain talent.
Character-based hiring: Effects on culture
00:03:49
Speaker
has been there's been a growing shift of performance over pedigree and that they might not come from the traditional background or the traditional pathway into that career, but you look for attributes of an individual things that the character is way more rare than individual skills and you find the right person you can train them so hire for talent train for skill is definitely something to develop cultures across industries that people have been gravitating towards is
00:04:19
Speaker
because that's been a challenge for everybody is how do we find the right people because it manifests in other ways. I keep using manifest on these podcasts but it develops in other ways where you have challenges of retention or the culture is bad in that you find you hire the right the wrong people they might have all the individual skills but you hire the wrong people and they're going to affect your culture negatively and you're maybe not going to be able to perform because they don't have the right attributes the right character
00:04:48
Speaker
And then culture, it touches everything.
Impact of safety culture on team dynamics and talent
00:04:50
Speaker
It's so important, and especially in this industry where we were pulling statistics over the last month. I mean, it's been incredible. It's driven partially out of the growth of the industry, new talent, younger people in the industry. And I think one of the statistics I'm going to pull out of my head, what's the adage on statistics? 92.6% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
00:05:15
Speaker
But there was a disproportionate amount of people that were injured on the job in this field were inside of two years of working in the field and so it's extremely dangerous environment and so safety is extremely important not for a multitude of reasons your reputation the individuals on your team if you care about them you don't want to go to hurt
00:05:40
Speaker
It affects performance, but then also it develops that culture that establishing that safe mindset and then that you care about them, you want to do things right. They perpetuate that amongst the teams. And that becomes part of who you are. And it will it will dive into other parts of the business and your reputation, your brand, which then goes back to attraction. So you'll start to attract those when they see that you're performing at higher levels, everybody wants to be on a winning team.
00:06:10
Speaker
And when they see that you care about them and there's a career there that they can advance that there's people of character and worth in your organization, it can attract the right talent and then it helps with retention as well.
Leadership's role in shaping workplace culture
00:06:24
Speaker
Yeah, you made one point earlier about like, you know, there may be someone that's in a safety position that may have way more knowledge than someone else might.
00:06:34
Speaker
Um, on paper anyway, on paper, but that doesn't necessarily mean that's your best dude for the job. Cause we've been into that before and we keep talking about safety, but we've ended up before where that person doesn't lead anybody though. Like it's more of a fear-based safety is what I call it. Where, you know, when they show up on a job site, it's more of a repercussion. Everybody hates that person. Nobody wants to follow that person. So yeah, they may have a ton of knowledge in their head, but they can't get anybody to follow them.
00:06:59
Speaker
So that's where the culture comes in and leading, I think, how you have done Atlanta Corp. And I think that's why we're, honestly, that's kind of what we're known for, is the culture side. Safety and quality always. You're right. I don't have a college degree, but there's nothing wrong with a college degree in safety.
00:07:15
Speaker
and having all that up there. But you also got to be personable. You got to get them to want
Core values: Driving hiring and rewards
00:07:21
Speaker
to follow you. You got to have some real world experience. And definitely let them know what you do know, and helping to train, and being out there in the field with them, and showing this is what I've seen, or this is the mistake I've seen before. Because if it's just a safety guy that's literally just got the policy and just the paperwork, and he's just telling you what to do as soon as they're out there doing there, hey, he's not here. Let's do it the way we always do it.
00:07:45
Speaker
In my experience fear-based safety has never been the way to do it
00:07:49
Speaker
And then you mentioned something else earlier that made me think about core values. So, you know, safety or quality or whatever culture you're building, it should be both. But, you know, core values is a big part of that. You know, we've talked about that before where, you know, core values should be lit from the top. So meaning, you know, us and others in the management team. But then also, those core values should be, you should be hiring by those, firing by those, reviewing people by those, giving bonuses by those.
00:08:17
Speaker
That's really how you build a culture, is by those core values. Because if you have those core values, and that's who your company is, not just the owner, not just a couple guys.
00:08:26
Speaker
then that becomes your company, then the safety and quality stuff falls into place as long as your core values are around that.
Communication styles in promoting safety vision
00:08:32
Speaker
And I've always liked it. I mean, other companies may have three core values. We've got nine at Landmark Corp, but they are all really relevant. And when you actually explain them all, it helps them to understand it. And I think whether you come from a religious background or use the Bible or you got parents that really taught you or a lot of kids don't have parents to teach them and upbringing them. And so,
00:08:53
Speaker
Uh, some of them, some of those core values can be taught though. I think we are teaching them. Yeah. And a lot of the core values, they should be operational for your business, but a lot of them are honestly just how you live your life. Honestly. Um, and then over communicating those values. So, you know, we've talked about the loudest person in the room a lot and Dan is someone I'm extremely introverted.
00:09:16
Speaker
I have not, I don't want to be your Myers-Briggs, but you're extremely extroverted, I'm pretty sure. The dude lives to talk and have fun and do crazy projects and be around people. But not that he's a loud person, but he's very comfortable communicating the safety vision, the quality vision we have here
Building a supportive safety community
00:09:33
Speaker
at Atlantic Corp. And that's another important aspect of the culture building is that.
00:09:39
Speaker
Somebody said the other day that a good friend have the guts to tell you when you're not doing something right and try to correct you though. You know, if you just got, if I want to know how I'm doing on something and you just sugarcoat it and say, hey, you're doing great, buddy, you're doing great. Well, then I don't, I don't get any better. But if you've got the guts to say, hey, you're doing good, but you need to get a little closer to the mic or whatever. We had that conversation a few times that Dan prepped. But then, then I'll improve. Yeah. And that's what you want as a good friend or as a workmate even.
00:10:07
Speaker
Yeah, tell us a little bit about the, we call it Brother's Keeper. Tell us a little bit more about that culture too. Yeah, it's really just watching out for each other and not just allowing somebody else to get hurt.
Effective safety programs: Engaging the crew
00:10:17
Speaker
But, you know, there's all kinds of safety terms, Brother's Keeper, whether it's behavior-based safety, but actually just looking out for each other, noticing that he needs help in training or needs a hand lifting something and watching out for that. Actually,
00:10:31
Speaker
Uh, that actually originated from the Bible to with Cain and Abel. Um, I'm not my brother's keeper, but he wasn't watching out for his brother. He wasn't looking over him, wasn't helping him. And, uh, so any team, any, any team that you got, any crew that you got, anytime you're working with somebody else, what can you do to help them? Don't just let them get hurt, speak up, try to help them train them. And then there'll be a better teammate, a better crew member.
00:10:55
Speaker
Yeah, tell us a little bit too, because some of the people listening may, may not even have city programs or policies in place. One of the things I think we do well, and a lot of people in industry do well, but is the foreman, you know, shift starters, if you will, you know, where they're engaging the crew and they're talking about a topic, what kind of tips would you have for people like that?
Creative employee engagement in safety training
00:11:16
Speaker
Well, I think it's the most important. In fact, we have a
00:11:18
Speaker
We have a full JSA, and a JSA is a job safety analysis, job hazard analysis. And ours is kind of lengthy because it covers so much stuff. But I try to tell them that stuff's important. You need to have site-specific stuff and know where you're at, where you would call for an emergency if there was such a thing. And other topics in there. But it's more, I want you to at least say, what could hurt you today?
00:11:41
Speaker
And maybe get everybody involved. Travis, we're right here at the tailgate. What do you think could hurt us today on this job we're doing? And then Brent, what do you think could hurt us? And then how could we mitigate? How can we keep that from happening? And instead of reading a whole page or a manual, actually, you say, well, we could get hurt this way. We're working along the roads. We want to have high-vis on, have our strobes on, whatever. Because you've seen somebody almost get hit.
00:12:09
Speaker
Or, and then when you're talking, maybe you're like, hey, if a storm
How to make safety meetings engaging?
00:12:13
Speaker
rolls in and lightning strikes, we're supposed to sit in the truck for 20 minutes or, you know, take shelter. Because I have a friend that actually got struck by lightning three times or whatever, something crazy. But those personal experiences on why, it's kind of given, even when a kid says, why did we do that? If you just say, because I said so.
00:12:30
Speaker
It didn't carry as much weight as if you explain maybe what has happened and what could happen. Explain the whole what could happen, like you said, then also just engaging the crew as a whole and allowing that conversation to take place. Any thoughts, Travis?
00:12:46
Speaker
So my dad was a health and safety coordinator for all of his career in the oil fields and so I got to grow up and see and then different parts of my career too where I was involved and we had safety stand downs and weekly and then you had the the weekend safety stand downs and so
00:13:03
Speaker
It's always a battle when when you're trying to communicate, especially teach things that might be a dry topic and trying to make
The power of storytelling in safety education
00:13:11
Speaker
those creative engagement and buy in. Safety is one of those that there's a lot of mandates that you must teach these things and a lot of safety directors can feel forceful.
00:13:23
Speaker
I'm going to go down the list and make sure that I check these boxes off and it can become dry and essentially you're making no impact. I love seeing the dynamics of my dad growing up and trying to find unique ways to engage the teams and non-standard sit in the classroom but
00:13:42
Speaker
I loved hearing where you get by and you get them to actually respond and think. They take a little bit of ownership stories to resonate no matter what you're teaching. It starts tapping kind of the emotional side of the brain and the behavioral especially if they can bring up their stories and so.
00:13:58
Speaker
Anytime and sometimes a lot of teachers, educators, say to professionals, though, they'll try and do that artificially. And instead of being more natural, okay, come on, let's share and let's talk. It's feel like you're being picked on where they just call you out of a crowd. And it might marginally have a better impact than you just kind of going through bullet points, but truly being authentic, bringing real stories, helping people understand that
00:14:24
Speaker
This isn't just a check in the boxes that we're supposed to do, but it's real consequences getting them to think through it, have buy in and understand that there's an outcome on the side on the other side of this, for better or worse, always made greater impact being funny. So my dad used to bring whether this was funny or not, but he'd make chili or gumbo
Humor and creativity in memorable safety training
00:14:48
Speaker
or something. There's a lot of the East Texas, so a lot of Louisiana contracts as he bring gumbo and stuff.
00:14:55
Speaker
but make it more familiar, more conversational. He would take the hot and spicy lid and switch it with the mild, which I'm sure liven things up a little bit, but he was always doing very creative things and he had a lot better reputation than a lot of his counterparts and had a lot more career success as a result because they went through ups and downs and he always seemed to be rising and maintained where other people went through layoffs and
00:15:24
Speaker
He had a job and moved up pretty regularly, but he had a great reputation that the crews loved him He wasn't just somebody who they all had to listen to every week your dad still around
00:15:36
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. I mean, I'd love to have like a guest like that that could tell a story from the past. That'd be awesome. Because that kind of makes it lively even on our safety meetings. Today on our safety meeting, basically just told a quick story that when I pulled down out of my road, it's a very busy road down there for our small town, there was a dead squirrel Sunday. When I came back home Sunday night, there was a dead squirrel in a raccoon.
00:15:59
Speaker
And so Monday when I left, they were flattened out pretty good. But Monday when I got back, there was a possum with those other two dead critters. And so I'm like, tonight, what's there going to be? A coyote might come check, a vulture might come check. And so I said, how could we relate that to safety?
00:16:17
Speaker
And so then actually got eight comments, I think, about how it could be related to safety, just following others, even if they not doing some something safe. And I thought it all worked out pretty good, but little stories like that and something like what your dad did, that really does help build culture. And it makes it more memorable. Yeah, because some stuff is real repetitious. How long ago was it you heard that story from your dad? How many years ago?
00:16:39
Speaker
easily 25-ish years. So you remember it. I still remember the bumper stickers on everything. Lertz Live Longer, Be Alert, and all these little clever funny, but I also remember he made
00:16:54
Speaker
a dummy so we were collecting milk jugs and my mom's extra pantyhose and over about a couple months a little toddler was formed out of these milk jugs and pantyhose with a little shirt and ball cap and he would go stage that behind some of the trucks and after the safety meeting broke out did they do the 360 or run over a little Jimmy and he'd let a few of the other guys and
00:17:23
Speaker
More often than not, they wouldn't do the 360 and Little Jimmy get run over and oh my goodness, it was a big, but just creative, clever, fun. It was all good fun in that kind of stuff, but out of the box thinking. And then so that kind of hit his reputation for doing that kind of stuff.
00:17:42
Speaker
they started to think about those things in less of a bullet point. Do you remember what
Recognizing lasting impacts of strong safety culture
00:17:48
Speaker
they talked about? They said, you remember he didn't do the 360 and ran over that milk jug? So it was a creative outside of the box way of driving home a message and making it experiential.
00:17:59
Speaker
That thing was an expensive it wasn't complicated but made it memorable so getting people buying and understand beyond just the bullet points of what what is the real word application for return on investment if you will for negative or positive.
00:18:17
Speaker
And I really know we're succeeding when other people send me, they actually take pictures or they see some other company that's not doing something safe, like maybe they don't have high beds, they don't have strobes or working along the road with no cones, no men working signs, or they're up on a weird ladder, wooden ladder trying to trim a tree, or whatever the deal is, but they actually are noticing that and saying they're not doing it right. And so I hope they're also taking that home with them when they're doing a project at
Leadership in sustaining positive culture
00:18:44
Speaker
home as well.
00:18:44
Speaker
Well, that's what I was going to say as a compliment to you is, you know, a lot of our guys are farm guys, or, you know, guys that's cut wood or done other tree work, you know, it's a word tree company, but, um, that's done this type of work before, before we hired them and how many have come back and said like, man, you know, because of all this stuff you've talked about over the years.
00:19:02
Speaker
Now, when I go home, when I cut a tree at my house, I find myself putting all the PPE on to go cut this tree. And to 10, 15 years ago, before I worked for you, I would never, I would just have cut the tree down. Yeah. And believe it or not, not everybody that ever worked for Leon or Corp stayed. Some have gone to where they thought the grass was greener. And then some have returned back to us and said that we definitely care about safety and that this so-and-so company did not.
00:19:27
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's, you know, a testament to culture is that they take those practices home. It's kind of my point there. And, you know, it really goes back to leadership. So it's not all just, you know, for safety. But I was wondering if you guys, have you guys ever had like, two different types of bosses where
00:19:44
Speaker
Maybe boss A was not one that built a culture, but it was more of like, I'm going to say like a dictator or, you know, forcing rules or whatever down your throat. But then option or boss B basically was the one who was like culture building and giving you stories of like bosses like that. Maybe how much more effective boss two was.
00:20:07
Speaker
Well, unfortunately, I haven't worked for very many people. You're one of the few I've worked for because I worked on my own for 25 years, I guess. But yeah, but two. But anyway, I don't have a whole lot of experience, but I can imagine. And that's why I've stayed working with you. Yeah, so I think it definitely has to start at the top.
Valuing diversity in safety discussions
00:20:30
Speaker
So we talked about core values earlier.
00:20:33
Speaker
Obviously, all of you guys need to hire, fire, do all that with your employees, but it also goes through your management structure. If your management staff is not exhibiting those characteristics, you know, and not that type of leader, then it's never going to go to the field or, you know, to the people below those management staff.
00:20:50
Speaker
If you guys are serious about that culture and developing that, you've got to have the right people in the right places to do that as well. Yeah, because kind of, like you said, you know, it's not just the safety manager. Safety is everybody's responsibility. Everybody's involved with that. And we all say that, but like I said, if it only is here and never gets to the field, it ain't going to work.
00:21:10
Speaker
So getting our foreman or leaders to actually be humble enough to to include everybody like maybe it's just hey I'm playing on doing this and parking this here, and we're gonna work over there What do you think what do you guys think is that is that the best way to do it the safest way? And if you get there by and even on just just just something like that Then they'll be willing to speak up when something doesn't seem right or hey What why don't we do it this way instead of that way?
00:21:35
Speaker
They have different vantage points and different perspectives beyond what maybe I could have even seen. I'm looking at it through my lens, maybe more strategic view. You got a crew of five or six people out there. Maybe they experienced something more relevant or they saw something that you don't know. And that can start their discussion. But yeah, opening it up and having more perspective.
00:21:57
Speaker
Well, I think you get a better and, and product and safety protocol or whatever you're looking at, involving the people that actually do the work. And more than once it's been the newer guy that come up with a good idea and you're like, okay, yeah. You just beat them down. You're the new guy. Regardless how good the idea is, we got to put you in your place. Yeah, it's a new set of eyes.
00:22:16
Speaker
You know, we all get a little bit complacent over time. It's just natural human tendency. Those new people can sometimes say, hey, why, why you've always been doing it that way for. Yeah. Well, we're just preoccupied with something else and not thinking clearly or are looking at the long-term only and not just what we're doing right there, but yeah.
Living core values: Credibility and integrity
00:22:32
Speaker
Yeah. So I think kind of in a nutshell, um, I think the culture building is so important because that's actually what's going to get it done.
00:22:39
Speaker
You know, box checking, that just is paperwork you're filing away in an office. It doesn't really mean it's happening in the field. If you guys can build that culture, that is actually ensuring it gets done in the field. So you guys got anything else you want to add? We're right up 30 minutes. No, really just.
00:22:54
Speaker
Culture is a big deal. Everybody says that word and it's kind of cliche. Yeah, it's kind of cliche, but it's basically just everybody getting on the same page. It's everybody working together as a team. It's everybody understanding safety and why it's important so that we all go home in the same condition we came or even better. Yeah. You'll see a lot of places where they'll have, you know, and we have these in our break room, but.
00:23:16
Speaker
A lot of people you'll see have the core values posted somewhere in their office and their website or whatever. But then you deal with a company and you're like, man, I didn't really experience any of those while I was dealing with them. You know, so don't be that company either, though, that has the core values posted everywhere. And everybody's experience with the company was actually the exact opposite. So make sure your team's living up to it, your management's living up to it and preaching it.
00:23:37
Speaker
And it goes back to the culture. I mean, yeah, it looked good to have the little core values, the foundation of the company you post on the wall, and then you don't live by it. That sets a culture of, well, I actually don't live by the things I say, and can be indicative of the entire organization is probably if you're if you set good core values, and you're not living by them, you're probably having other problems too.
00:24:00
Speaker
Yeah, I think a lot of those companies that do that the core values aren't actually for their employees. There's four customers are trying to get that empathy vote almost or like, Hey, they're, they think like me vote or purchase. I mean, you know, so they're doing that for them, but then it won't take long for the customer to see through that though, either.
00:24:15
Speaker
you know, the customer will deal with you guys one or two times and be like, that was a lie. Yeah, humans see through it. So they'll see the hypocrisy if you're not living by what you're saying. All of our employees will see it. Yeah, they'll see it. It'd be customer loss, employee retention issues, all kinds of stuff. So guys, we're right at 30 minutes. So thank you for listening. If you liked it, please share.